Why Microsoft's 'we have Windows 10 Mobile for phones' doesn't contradict Pocket PC vision

In July, Belfiore stated:

The Windows 10 on ARM effort is about enabling the PC experience on devices that are built on ARM so that they're connected all the time and have great battery life. So the experience is a desktop PC experience, it's not a phone-like experience. For phone-like experiences on ARM, we have Windows 10 Mobile. What Windows 10 on ARM is, is a desktop-like experience so that you get the battery life that ARM processors tend to have.

Belfiore makes several points:

  • Microsoft has Windows 10 Mobile for phone experiences.
  • Window 10 on ARM is for desktop experiences.
  • WOA is for always-connected PC experiences and great battery life.

Some people believe Belfiore's statements preclude the possibility of a modular version of Windows that will run on all form factors, including a pocketable telephony-enabled device. So how do we reconcile Belfiore's "we have Windows 10 Mobile for the phone experience", with the expectation of a modular form of Windows on a potential telephony-enabled pocket PC?

We have Windows 10 Mobile for that

Belfiore's statements regarding Windows 10 Mobile were referring to its present and immediate future, not the long-term.

We know that Windows 10 Mobile will remain supported as the phone experience until its imminent demise after 2018 when support for the mobile OS ends. Until that time it, not full Windows 10 on ARM, is what Microsoft has for the phone experience.

I believe Belfiore's statements, like those of many high-level executives, were carefully crafted. He technically spoke the truth about Windows 10 on ARM while retaining the secrecy of Microsoft's plans for Windows 10 Mobile.

Earlier this month, Zac Bowden's sources confirmed our ongoing analysis that Windows 10 Mobile will be replaced by a full version of Windows that will run on all form factors as Microsoft continues its Windows-on-mobile strategy.

Even if Windows 10 Mobile succeeded Microsoft would have pursued a post smartphone strategy

Windows 10 on ARM is for ARM-based PC experiences

Belfiore stressed: "The Windows 10 on ARM effort is about enabling the PC experience on devices that are built on ARM so that they're connected all the time and have great battery life."

Belfiore's assertion in no way contradicts the analysis that Microsoft's vision for full Windows 10 on all form factors will include a Continuum- and telephony-enabled pocket PC running CShell. In fact, it reinforces Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella's assertion that Continuum-enabled mobile devices will be able to serve as a user's only PC.

To enable the full mobility of a device that will act as a full PC and have mobile capabilities, Windows 10 would need to run on ARM, have constant connectivity and great battery life. If we view Microsoft's strategy as bringing a PC to the mobile space and not that of forcing full Windows 10 on a phone (as some incorrectly assume I'm proposing) Belfiore's statements begin to fall into place.

Both Windows 10 on ARM and Continuum are about enabling the PC experience on ARM-based devices.

Yes, Microsoft's investments in Windows 10 on ARM have an immediate application in the form of the cellular PCs we will see this year. This phase in Microsoft's mobile strategy is about enabling the PC experience on ARM-based laptops, tablets, and 2-in-1s. The parallel here is that Microsoft's goal is also to enable the PC experience on Continuum-enabled pocketable ARM-based Windows devices.

When we take a holistic view of Microsoft's investments, we realize that its Continuum strategy — making a mobile device a full PC experience — and its Windows 10 on ARM strategy in bringing the full PC experience to ARM-based devices, are invariably connected.

The power of a PC with CShell and Continuum

If a Continuum-enabled mobile device is to replace a user's PC, that mobile device must be a full PC. Thus, we must recognize that Microsoft's strategy is likely that of optimizing a PC for the mobile space and adding mobile functionality. The distinction between this and cramming Windows 10 on a phone cannot be overstated.

Nadella's vision for Continuum as a means for a user to have a full PC experience necessitates that the mobile device in-hand has the power of a PC. Continuum is simply the medium to convey that PC power to a desktop context when connected to a monitor, mouse, and keyboard or Lap Dock-like device.

Why Windows 10 S, Project Centennial are critical to Continuum's success

CShell will ensure that the UI and OS conform to a user's context. Readers concerned about a desktop experience on small screen needn't be. The UI when not in Continuum mode would be mobile- and touch-friendly.

Yeah, I know, the app gap

None of this directly addresses the app gap problem. The strategy does benefit from Microsoft's investments in Windows 10 S as a means to modernize the PC experience, however. Windows 10 S runs only Store apps and potentially creates an incentive for developers to use Project Centennial to begin converting Win32 apps to UWP apps.

Windows 10 S breathes new life into UWP — and paves the way for 'Surface phone'

The modernization of Win32 apps would help populate the Windows Store and could potentially encourage other developers to begin developing UWP apps.

Full migration to UWP makes apps more secure and enables Windows 10 features like notifications, Cortana integration, live tiles and a XAML interface.

A growing ecosystem of UWP apps could encourage mobile app developers to develop for this ultramobile PC category with telephony and a mobile form factor and context-conforming UI.

Wrap up

Microsoft's strategy, I believe, is the unprecedented synergy or merger of a mobile and PC effort. It's an uphill battle that isn't targeting the iPhone or Android phones. It's about carving out a position for a new type of telephony-enabled PC with support from OEM partners. There are no guarantees but if that proves to be a solid, albeit initially small market, it may be stable enough for developers to target these ultramobile PCs with mobile-specific apps as well.

Belfiore's statements stress the importance of the PC experience which is core to Microsoft's Continuum-powered one device for all scenarios strategy. This Windows 10 with CShell ultramobile PC will, in my estimation, be an evolving category. Like most tech, it won't upon introduction be in power and capabilities what it is ultimately intended to be.

Belfiore's Windows 10 on ARM statements, UWP, what we know of Windows Mobile's imminent demise, CShell and Andromeda and the role of Continuum in Microsoft's mobile strategy are the foundation to this device category.

Joe Belfiore's statements, support rather than contradict this analysis.

Jason Ward

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

  • Thanks for reading folks. Let's talk!
  • Thanks for the great articles Jason.  However to MS, I say we can only wait and see...talk is cheap (hehe).  They've "said" a lot, but what we have seen doesnt exactly match up.  It can only go on so long before it becomes almost irrelevant in the mobile arena.  They need to come out with something...and sooner rather than later.  I know that folks will say, "They'll release it when they are done...when it is finished and working."  Ok that may be the case, but if that time is 5+ years off (as they tend to keep putting things off), then I think they may lose that race.  Dont get me wrong. I love windows and my windows phone (still on VZW here so still holding onto my lumia 735 here, of course that is my ONLY option...and I blame MS and VZW both for that...and no, i cant change vendors).  I hope to see something, not hear about something, put out by microsoft in the near future to show that they are still invested in the mobile market...especially phones...
  • "[Microsoft is] almost irrelevant in the mobile arena"??? Microsoft *ALREADY IS* irrelevant in the mobile arena. FTFY
  • I love it how after every article you write, you comment with a "thank you for reading" and "let's talk!" :) Uh, did I say "every"? I meant "mostly". On your previous article, about "the relationship between Silicon Valley, Microsoft, President Trump, and the ideology of hate" you didn't comment. In fact, you turned off the commenting altogether on that article - it appears that on certian topics, you don't really want to talk with the readers, you'd rather say what you want to say and the rest should just shut up... But that approach doesn't make others "listen" to you and "shut up", that just makes you look like a coward...
  • 🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶
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  • Green mushroom for rodney for the Toby Keith reference!!!!! ha ha  awesome!
  • @rodneyej; I here ya. We try and dance a different step each time but it's just plain tiresome to this point because it's the same old sound.
  • I wouldn't let the internet wear me out that much...
  • That article was just sad.
  • I thought it was very impressive. It takes a lot of creativity to interpret Belf's statement in this way. Usually one would imagine he was talking about the situation at the point where WoA is released in products. If indeed he meant that now Windows Mobile is for mobiles, but in the future WoA is for mobiles, he is clearly either really bad at communicating in English or he is intentionally trying to mislead. Going by the MS communication skills demonstrated daily, I'm not exactly surprised by that. Take home from this? For customers, never listen to MS employees as not one of them has a clue how to communicate. For Nadella, there are these things called qualifications, right? Hire at least one person who has one in languages.
  • The reality itself is sad when it comes to Windows Mobile, Windows Phone, Kin, Windows 10 Mobile and whatever else Microsoft may try in mobile space. This article is sad because it would be ridiculous otherwise.
  • The Cellphone-market has been just one excitingly new market in the past 2 decates. Microsofts problem has to do with decision-making and distribution. Whatever they dicide - Google is already there. If MS would descide to enter the market for E-Cars or assisted driving-systems, they would come too late. In other words, its a problem of diversification. Like IBM in the 80ies, MS has become too sluggish Microsoft
  • Yeah, also think it was sad. Primarily for the typical technical inacuracies, for example this one:
    So how do we reconcile Belfiore's "we have Windows 10 Mobile for the phone experience", with the expectation of a modular form of Windows on a potential telephony-enabled pocket PC?
    THIS DOES NOT HAVE TO BE RECONCILED! It's already the case that Windows is modular! It's amazing that after years of WCentral staff constantly but inaccurately claiming "W10 and W10M are the same thing", the staff is now claiming W10M and W10 are not the same thing. Now they are not even modular. It's amazing how many different ways WCentral staff can explain the composition of Windows and never get it right. Windows is actually modular. The biggest versions (Windows 10 Server) include every last module. The other versions of Windows, like professional, home, mobile, etc are created by stripping away some modules. W10M currently adds exactly one module to the mix, namely the W10M shell, but once CShell is released this will no longer be true. At that point W10M will be W10 with some modules (mostly relating to Win32) removed but nothing added. I think the term "modular" desribes that perfectly. Sad! :-(
  • Or maybe the comments were turned off to prevent vitriol and misinformation? There was no room for "the other side" in that post. In fact there's no room for that side anywhere. That side ignores reason and compassion and if you're on it, you're absolutely right, just "shut up".
  • It's an editorial. He can voice his opinion how he pleases. If you don't like it you can dispute it here, or find solace elsewhere.
  • Yes yes, "there's no room for the other side" - because there's only one side which holds the utter ultimate undesputable truth, right? You guys learned NOTHING, so you deserve ALL that frostration which is building up in your tiny heads. I'm gonna sit right here and enjoy the show :)
  • The comments for that article were turned off in anticipation of idiotic comments like yours.
  • Strange, the only idiotic comment I see here is yours... You see, in contradiction to you, I actually had a point.
  • 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
  • The problem here is a lot of trolling and strong opinions leading each of these online-discussion to nowhere. I fully understand.
  • "Trolling" would be writing a one-sided POLITICAL article on a tech site, and turn off commenting on it - if you ask me.
  • Don't like it, go reat breitbart or some other right wing rag.  No one here is FORCING you to read and reply to every article.
  • Who're you to tell me what, what not and where to read? You don't like other opinions? Just hide under your pillow. No one here is FORCING you to read and reply to my comments.
  • Let us all sign a Petition for getting the next phone from Microsoft. Only Petition could help us 😉 Let take this step. Windows Central please open up this Petition... and we all will join together . Please 😃
  • That pretty much makes sense... MS should not go to full blown mobiles with Windows 10 on ARM...they should try to optimize Windows 10 on ARM for the ARM chipsets and work on improving battery life. Once they achieve that, which could potentially take a year, they can go ahead with the launch of cellular PCs/ mobiles like the rumoured Surface Phone in late 2018. However, something tells me that other manufacturers like HP and Dell may take the first step here...for instance HP can announce a higher end phone running Windows 10 on ARM while we can expect budget friendly phones from Dell and may be Lenovo...and all of this can happen much before the "Surface Phone" which will be the premier of all. These phones will help enriching the WIndows Store and announcing to the world that Windows 10 on ARM/mobile is here to stay. This will help in paving the path of the Surface Phone. After suffering for one month on Android, I have bought Lumia 950XL despite all the rumours of the demise of Windows 10 mobile and the fact that it is almost two years old. Why? simply because of the OS...Windows 10 on mobile is light years ahead in terms of OS features compared to Android. Anyways, the point I am trying to make is to request MS not to give up on mobiles...because many die hard fans like me have never imagined a smartphone other than a Windows Phone :-( (I shifted from Nokia's Symbian OS to WP8 to WP8.1 to W10M)
  • My question for today is: If Microsoft mentions PC with this new device, will the consumer not compare it to a regular PCs performance and expect similar?
  • You're saying a MAC isn't a personal computer?
  • Nope. A pc can also be a Mac pc.
  • What's a PC?
  • There are two camps well at least two. A smart consumer will recognize that ARMs is not on the same level as an Intel/AMD processors and will expect like performance and not attempt to play or run applications but on proper chipsets for expected performance and results. Then there are those who will attempt an run a game or applications or such like that should be on Intel/AMD processors will make the attempt run these applications(ARMS chipset) then get upset when performance is not there and perhaps run into other issues then get mad at Microsoft  when all they had to do is run the application on the appropriate chips to do the job in the first place. But it never fails: They will always blame Microsoft for not getting the chicken to pull the ox down the road.  
  • But would it not be Microsofts fault for not explaining (via proper marketing) what to expect from this device, and maybe even more important: What NOT to expect :)?
  • Like so many before me I have reached the end of my rope with respect to windows phone. A Lumia 1020, a Lumia 640XL and 950XL are now paperweights as I have returned to Apple. Stunning to find how great it is to have such a depth of apps. I was patient, I wanted MS to succeed, but even as a die hard, I have my limits. Adios!
  • Fantastic analysis of the "crafted" public statements. Pro: Microsoft is positioning to be #1 in the device category after the smartphone downturn. Con: They aren't telling us anything! Where is the hope, folks!? Funny about the App Problem: Only exists for mobile, as the screen forces a different user-experience. In Win 10, web sites are usable and suppliment apps as they always have. In 2016, app counts were awesomely positioned in Microsoft's favor, let's see if they capitalized and can flip the app argument: 750,000 apps in windows store 1.5 million apps in apple store or google play 16 million Windows Desktop (x86) apps (hostable in the windows store) 1 BILLION web site apps (hostable in windows store) Microsoft is going where the customers are, and they are in windows desktop and the web.  Police call those stats a clue. Thanks for the great insight, yet again! 
  • APP counts are totally useless.
  • Hi Jason! I'm grateful for you and Mr Belfiore because after having had great experiences with (very long ago) an HP Jornada followed by my Lumia 800, my 1020, 1520 and my current 950XL I had been starting to wonder if maybe my choice to stick with Microsoft perhaps had not been the best decision, unfortunately fueled by quite a few imho disapointing articles on this website over the last year or so, but thanks to your article today I'm very happy to say that I'm now once again reassured that whenever I will need to replace my 950 XL I'll be able to do so with another great Microsoft powered device. Thanks guys! You made my day!
  • Optimism is good, but we should never take what any editor take as 100% undeniable fact. These are just musings, meant to give us insight, not guarantee =)
  • Keeping it short and sweet....Nice!
  • So Joe is just talking about the near future, not the long term. So, how long until we see a smartphone running full Windows? 2 years? 5 years? What is Andromeda?
  • Hopefully never.  I would prefer Microsoft continue to provide a "mobile" experience for phones.  They need to concentrate on come up with a sterling device.  I've got my SP3, NUVI tablet, etc... if I want the computer experience.  I don't need full fledge computer OS on my phone.  That's just me.  I'm sure there are other's who have their own thoughts on that subject.
  • If C-Shell allows Windows 10 to provide me the mobile experience on a smartphone, then I'll settle for that.
  • Wasn't Andromeda the Android version of this "one operating system to rule them all" trend?  I think it was and it was cancelled, iirc.
  • Microsoft is using it for something too.
  • They had similar names for similar concepts in each respective OS
  • Microsoft I do believe is still working on thier version of Andromeda.  Which will be the "true" OS for all devices.  I guess we'll have to wait and see how that pans out.
  • I've moved on from Wp just use my 950 for Windows insider builds have a iPhone 7plus looking forward to the iPhone 8
  • Joe was basically just further distancing us from the idea of phones as the only way of doing mobile computing. The aim of Windows 10 on ARM (Surface Phone or whatever you want to call it) isn't to create a new mobile phone. It's to create a mobile computing experience that has you covered on all fronts, whether that be working, consuming media, communicating, and so on. You could view it as a mobile phone, but Microsoft doesn't want you to view it that way. That would hinder their efforts and belittle their achievement. They want you think of it as a new mobile computing experience.
  • The new mobile experience that has already been seen with the 950, X3, Motorola Atrix and Asus Padfone? What is the difference this time?
  • What you're describing is called a smartphone.
  • Hey, I'm not the one who set the rules. I'm just echoing what Nadella and others said. They are clearly working on new PC experiences that are mobile, but they are avoiding terms like "phone".
  • Just because they are avoiding calling it a phone does not make it not a phone.  I can call a car a flubbermajigger....but it's still a car.  semantics is all they are playing with...padfone, atrix etc already tried this amazing windows on mobile vision microsoft has and all have FAILED.  
  • @Steve Adams. No. It's not just semantics. Just because you can sit yourself behind the stearingwheel and can drive it, doesn't make something a car. It could also be a truck, or a bike. In the same way, just because something can make calls, doesn't make it a phone. A desktop PC with Skype and call-out credit can also make calls, but it's not a phone. The primary traits of a smartphone is that it runs a mobile OS, meaning the device is hard to use incorrectly, is maintenance free, and protects users from themselvesm. Android, iOS and W10M fit that mold, as they are mobile OSes. W10 does not, as it is a desktop OS. These are far bigger differences than just semantics.  
  • They're not using the word 'phones' because they've very publicly failed at phones. It's like saying 'he who must not be named,' because 'Voldemort' brings up painful or embarrassing memories. Whether this mythical Surface device ever comes out or not, it will be a phone, or close enough for consumers, that it'll be a meaningless distinction. Remember their attempt at popularising 'superphone?' All this talk about 'mobile experiences' is MS trying to make fetch happen.
  • Since when has that ever been the problem?  The readiness of consumers to carry all manner of devices for mobile computing is well-established.
  • Agreed. Trying to get phones to be like PC's was a great idea. I do enjoy my 950 and continuum. However, moving forward it's a win-win for everyone to focus on ultra-mobile PC's with new hardware that can simply add a phone app. It'll be up to  OEM's to determine how small they'll go.
  • well, that better be one hell of a device they're keeping in secret or they way they've squandered the winphone/mobile's good faith, is going to keep them in the gutter for the next couple of decades
  • well, i wish the W10M UI will still be used for their pocketable devices (5-6inch Surface Phone or what ever they want to call it) but when you connect it to a display dock (HD500 for example) then thats the time when you can use a full Windows 10 or Windows 10S. what do you think guys?  
  • Surface Pocket 2018!
  • I'm pretty sure this is exactly what's happening.. It's all pretty much common sense now.... There's gonna be some type of mobile Surface device that runs Windows, and by using an adaptable shell it will either display the current WM interface, the typical desktop interface, and possibly something else in between. Only a fool can't see that by now.
  • I feel like we need to arrange health & safety checks for you guys for when this device doesn't happen. Like, you're going to be okay, right? 😕
  • Funny thing is that to you trolls it's actually a bigger deal... Y'all stress ten times more over this device not happening than we do over it happening, and vise versa... It's seriously not that big a deal to us, because we're using Windows devices already. This is just interesting to ponder about for us. It's just fun... Now if we were in a iDroid forum complaining about $hit we didn't care about then we might need to seek help.. The question is are you gonna be ok if it does happen?🤔 doesn't sound like it to me.
  • I dunno, after the 17th editorial about this awesome device Microsoft is most assuredly working on & their super secret strategy & sly hints that only those paying attention are really able to understand, I started assuming it's all just a joke & Ward is punking the readers. By the 29th editorial I was convinced of it. But yeah, maybe someday they'll release a mobile device and you can hook up a monitor and keyboard to it... Or maybe they already did that & it failed horribly? Either way.
  • It does seem to upset some of you guys much to read this stuff... Why do you keep reading what you don't care for?.. I care zilch about Android phones, their success, or failures, so why would I read about them?
    ?????? Answer those two questions.
  • I read them as satire... I thought most other people were too...
  • Right... You read them as satire, then make condemning comments. No, you care about Windows on a mobile device. The idea intrigues you. And, when one comes out you'll be the first one to buy. You're the biggest fan here, like a 6 year old boy picking on a little girl when he actually likes her.. You're not fooling anyone.
  • They already make a Windows Mobile device, why would you, me, or anyone else need to wait to buy one?
  • 🙄🙄🙄🙄 You trolls are a paradox
  • Huh....? If you want a windows mobile device you can go down to the Microsoft store & plunk down $600 & walk out with one. You could also set $600 on fire and get marginally less functionality, but I'm not here to tell you what to do with your money.
  • Lol I so want MS to succeed in this space, but I'm with you. MS has lost the plot.. And JWs editorials only confirm he is good at cryptic crosswords and is still working on breaking MS's enigma code.
  • Yeah, diagramming out sentences & parsing quotes to get the 'real' meaning, lol.
  • Not sure why you got downvoted for this.  You hit the nail right on the head.
  • Because.. Trolls.
  • Ha ha ha....All i hear from rodney here is the Angry Political guy on Howard Stern...TROOOOOLLLL!
  • If you ever heard it downvoters you would laugh your ass off.  Richard and Sal are relentless on him....it's funny!   
  • CShell is great for adapting UWP apps to your device,  but it isn't a magic wand. You can't toss desktop software designed for 24" screens in one end and expect mobile, touch friendly, 5" apps to automatically pop out the other. That's not how it works. Secondly, this notion that 'Joe's not really saying that, read between the lines!' is based on several assumptions like W10S suddenly filling the Windows Store with apps in a way that UWP and porting bridges didn't, and that Joe Belfiore actually chooses his words because he expects a Windows fansite to dissect every letter for a technicality to convince readers that he's not really saying what he's actually saying.
  • Look up Gole i bought one for fun $150 has a 5 in sceen all its missing is celluar. Its a little fat for my pocket but fooling around with it in tablet mode it would be fine to use with live tiles....kinda like a phone. but yes in desktop you can barley press stuff on the 5 inch screen...but thats fine i just hook it up to a monitor. I bought it to play old school mmorpgs like ultima online...works great. I also can use it with trinius vr and hook it up to my sony phone and a headset bang mobile vr lol....well kinda. :)
  • JW has been making those assumptions since long when MS actions are completely opposite.
  • If this is their strategy, it still baffles me that Microsoft would not have worked with the New York PD to do something for them instead of letting them switch out their 36000 phones to iPhones.  This is just such horrible PR.  Or is the NYPD only working with a carrier and not talking to Microsoft?  I would think they could update to HP Elite X3 or Alcatel, and then would be an idea candidate for when these new mobile ARM devices come to market.  But no, it looks like that good PR is now gone forever.
  • Yea, I was thinking this is the exact right time to say something concrete about aspiraions and intentions in mobile/phone/connected spaces. The issue the NYPD has is that there is no future. There is no new hardware to move to, that isn't already 'obsolete'. There is no new OS, if you look at the progress of Win 10 mobile based on Insider builds. Continuum on the latest builds looks just like Continuum two years ago, neat videos of C-Shell not withstanding.  36,000 phones isn't a big thing in the scheme of things, but 36,000 phones abandoned on the front page of every blog, newspaper, and local TV news report is. Maybe this will be forgotten by the time MS actually has something ready. By that time though, the replacement will be entrenched, and would have to fail to be re-evaluated.
  • The strategy is to get someone to write that Microsoft has a strategy.
  • I'm all for a cellular PC -- Skype for Biz is ALMOST there, but still short of full cellular/SMS experience. Can't wait for cell and SMS across all devices, for sending and receiving and integrated w/ Outlook... can I dream a little?. Would make my work life so much easier..
  • In this weeks episode of Fantasy Island.....
  • He is the reason why I keep adblock enabled for this site.
  • TATOO: Look, the phone the phone
  • I'm glad my 950 will get me through next year. I like it mostly.
  • I keep coming back to the same point.  You can call these "mobile-devices-that-aren't-a-phone" whatever you want to.  And consumers may or may not want a Windows desktop capability on various mobile devices.  But the phone form factor is the phone form factor.  There's only so many ways you can legitimately alter that form factor and the device still truly be usable as a phone.  Whatever other capabilities people demand that it has, there's only so much leeway you have in making sense as a phone, too.  You're not going to hold your tablet up to your ear.  And, I usually see people who have these ridiculously-sized phablets holding their "phones" out like a flipping serving tray to talk on them.  Stupid.  What I, as a consumer, as someone who hates all things Apple and all things Google/Android, want to know is if there will be SOME sort of device that can reasonably be used like a phone but also have a great Windows mobile experience on it?  Or, is it really Microsoft's goal to shove people to their services running on iPhone or Android if we still want a smartphone?  All I really want is a straight answer.  Which Microsoft seems to be unwilling to provide. If, in the end, the only choices I'll have for a smartphone will be an iPhone or Android, then I'll run my Lumia devices into the ground and then just get a flip phone with tethering capability (I'm not paying for two separate cell lines, thank you).
  • I doubt Microsoft knows what their plans are yet. They probably have multiple mobile projects they are working on and do not know which will come to fruition if any. I doubt they will be able to justify any sort of phone device. There is just no chance for success unless they have something truly revolutionary. Being able to dock and run Legacy Windows applications isn't revolutionary and won't drive growth especially as legacy applications become further marginalized and niche.
  • One of the fronts Microsoft should be working on is about the app gap, if they release a new phone I believe it will be compatible either with Android or iOS
  • Why not just use Android then? You wouldn't install Linix so you can emulate Windows apps, why would you buy a Windows phone so you can emulate Android or iOS apps? There is plenty of hardware that will allow you to natively use that software. The app gap can only be closed by creating a revolutionary mobile platform that people want to use and buy in number. Gimmicks and "bridges" won't do it.
  • Providing OEMs with an OS and an alternative to the Atom is the first step. What OEM's do with that integrated hardware should be interesting and safe to say, we'll see some smaller devices.
  • the question you have is same as mine and I'm sure it is the same for many others, We dont want anything apple or google, and we dont want to spend 2000$ for a portable computer. so will we have a decent phone from MS, and sadly I think we already know the answer, it is not like MS is maintaining a minimum threshold on other platform, it is actually expanding its services on them, ignoring W10M and even W10 at the same time. I'm just dragging along my Lumia 730 and pretty soon I'll have buy either an apple or a droid device. Meanwhile this fantasy will continue on WC for years to come, chasing the end of rainbow for a pot of gold.
  • I don't understand the future of Continuum. The purpose of it was to make your phone into a "desktop computer experience". With the ARM version of Windows, you already have a computer that is connected the same way as your smartphone. What does Continuum do for me? The way it works now sounds like it would take my computer back to pretending to be a smartphone that is in turn pretending to be a computer, and thus introducing a layer of uselessness and wasted resources. My Surface Pro does everything this ARM based device purports to do, minus the battery life, messaging, and phone calls. On it, I can use a touch interface, on screen keyboard, handwritting recognition, inking, and connect a keyboard, mouse, monitor at will. Add an ARM processor in place of the Core i, include a SIM card add the Windows Mobile messaging and Telephony apps and Continuum is irrelevant. I realize I am probably missing something here, and would like to understand this better.
  • I think you mostly have it right, except your Surface Pro is going to have a huge drop in performance with an ARM processor. It will be years before ARM can replace a Pro machine. There is no real benefit to an ultra mobile PC, and this is why you don't see Microsoft talking it up very much. They really haven't said anything about it except some statement by Nadella quite a while ago. Microsoft actually seems to be backtracking from this statement. This article is just trying to justify their belief regardless of Microsoft's actions/statements.
  • There's not going to be an ultramobile device as Jason imagines, it will be pocket handhelds which replace the current PDA's etc still running winmo
  • I'm with you here. I don't get the point of Continuum on a WoA device. Let's assume WoA means I have Windows, Home/Pro, running on a device that happens to have an ARM processor. Lets say it is something like today's HP Stream 7 or an 8" NuVision. If I hook an external monitor to their HDMI port, Windows understands a second screen, as an extension or mirror. That doesn't need Continuum. I can already hook a BT or cabled mouse and keyboard to these devices. That doesn't require Continuum. If I'm running WoA, it would seem the only thing I need is a UI that fits a smaller screen size, and not that much smaller than the Stream 7. The current UWP apps already understand and respond the size of the screen they are running on.  Things that are bridged via Centennial likely wouldn't run well on the small screen, but they were never built for a small screen anyway, so don't run them there. Maybe restrict them to 'docked' mode. 
  • The W10 ultramobile PC device can only succeed if the following conditions are met: - Using SD845 processor which supports MR - Using a foldable screen for tablet display is a 'MUST'.  CShell based Continuum is not good enough. - 5G ready with eSIM. A telephony supported WoA tablet without phone features will be a failure.  It can't compete with the Intel processors which run W32 apps natively, even Intel won't block WoA.  Besides, the more power efficient processors like Coffee Lake, Connon Lake and Ice Lake are coming soon.  But if the pocket W10 tablet supports phone features, it would become a new mobile category thast could appeal to all the W10 users.  It would be the only device you need to carry in the pocket for all things besides a desktop at home.  The app gap issue will be greatly mitigated since you can run all the Windows Store apps and web apps on your pocket display at anywhere and anytime.  Continuum would play a supporting role if an external monitor is available. I plan to hold on my L950XL until next Summer and see if any progress is made for the ultramobile W10 device to my liking.  I would consider then to switch if I'm forced to do so.
  • They best come up with a "vision" for mobile really soon.  Windows Mobile is both losing apps and mindshare faster and faster...  As an extension of that, Microsoft and Windows are losing mind share...  AR being the latest example.  As I have mentioned before, HoloLens is the premiere AR device available right now, but no matter how good it is, it will not matter if once the vast majority of people get their "AR" experience through ARkit on iOS, and ARCore on Android.  Devs will start to create a lot of different apps for both and it will not matter that MS has HoloLens or how good it is.  Ballmer was right to create the OneMicrosoft vision but it does not seem that the company is executing much in that direction.  They could have beat both iOS and Android with some AR powered Lumia that borrowed tech from the HoloLens or Kinect.  Maybe it would have not mattered, but maybe it would have. And the recent NYC thing...  They couldn't work out a deal with the city to replace the Lumia's with HP or Alcatel phones to keep them on the platform?!?!? Maybe mobile for MS is a hopeless effort, but say what you want about Ballmer/Gates, they almost never abandonded an entire segment of computing, but kept at it until they made a mark.  Mark my words, MS abondoning mobile like they have just might be their undoing.  Now I am not talking about next month, or year, but the long game...  The more mindshare they lose in the consumer market, the more they start to look like IBM, and the more they just become a cloud company.
  • Sad but true
  • I wonder if they're avoiding talking about phones to keep people from labelling Windows on Arm as a "phone" operating system. Focusing on the fact it can work as a phone would tend to depreciate what it was. People are pretty simpleminded assuming that everything is either/or and get confused if it isn't.
  • Here is my take on it: What Microsoft really needs is a device that works like a phone, but can run the "trendy" apps, which means it has to be compatible with Google and Facebook somehow. It also needs to able to run business applications. If Microsoft's new whatever-it-is can do those things, and Microsoft will stick with it and listen to their customers' feedback, then MAYBE it could succeed, especially with the added benefit of built-in Office functionality. However, it is now so late in the game the odds are getting pretty long on that.
  • "Getting pretty late in the game"😂.. I'm sure some back in the 1960's said that about fledgling TV makers trying to compete with Zenith, and RCA.. Lol. I just think it's so funny that some of you think iDroid will rule 2050. Times change, and you never know who will be on top in the future. Could be anyone. Look at Hyundai/Kia now. That's why I laugh we these fools boast about iDroid devices today... One day no one will care. 😂😂😂😂
  • They won't ever get in the mobile game now. That time is done.
  • Agreed. It does boil down to "Developers! Developers! Developers!"...they can't even get them to come to the Windows 10 Store. I think we are truly heading to the world of Web Apps. 
  • Contradictory. If we're heading to the world of Web apps, it won't matter which platform you choose...
  • Agreed...platform agnoistic with web apps. I moved from Edge to Chrome when I sadly had to leave my Windows Phone and while I think Edge looks better, Chrome, with extensions and "Windowed Apps" is almost like an OS. 
  • oh yes, thats why MS decides to upgrade apps for IOS and Android, bring in more suite of apps but ignore W10M right? if the leading software company of the world will not go for platform agnostic apps, why would smaller devs bhi interested?
  • we need see exact statement about future of windows mobile, not see make analysis.   
  • Well, yeah, of course we would all like that, but we're going to have to wait.. There is another hardware event coming up, but don't hold your breath for a Surface Phone just yet. Now, when It's May of 2018, and you hear of another hardware event coming up, then you can get a little excited.
  • Great article. This is why I enjoy your tech analysis, not the more politically motivated article you put together last week. I don't read Engadget anymore because thats what they do. Please continue with more like this.
  • Semantics... Whichever way you look at it, there is no difference between a smartphone and a micro pc on ARM; both are rectangular slabs that will do personal computing and phone calls. Trying to differentiate between Windows Phone and Windows 10 on ARM in any other way than sheer usability is pointless; the only difference is a matter of tech generation. Windows Phone is last generation, Windows 10 on ARM is next generation.
  • I mean, technically I can't argue with that... But, you can't blame MS for (when they do) trying to differentiate their smartphones running a mobile OS from thier mobile device running full Windows.
    You can't say you wouldn't do the same.
  • It was more of a comment to Jason insisting on differentiating; I'm guessing everyone reading these articles dream of a device that'll function as a smartphone, fold out to a tablet, and connect to an external display and keyboard as a pc, but insisting there's a difference in getting there from a PC or a smartphone is ridiculous. Basically it would take the place of both, if properly implemented...
  • Yeah, basically it would take the place of both, so it is a new kinda device. As Jason says, it will be category defining in it's hardware, and a PC by it's software. I think some of you are confusing the two.
  • The longer it takes them, the further from the Windows Ecosystem get as they invest in Android and iOS. By then it will be to late. Once again, this is on Nutella. He forced those of us that thought we would stay no matter what, right out the door. The lack of apps was one thing.... Telling me that a ten month old phone had to be serviced by a third party set of clowns was an entirely different thing. He is in this for the quick grab and Microsoft will regret everything about him in 5-7 years.
  • There is a Windows 10 Mobile?!? What hardware does it run on? I don't see any in my cell carriers store or online...which means irrelevant software as a vast majority of cutomers would say. The reamaining loyalists are so few in number it would not even financially benfit MS to continue support. Let's just call the time of death now. W10M is dead. It pains me to say that, but it is.
  • I  
  • People dont just do "mobile computing" they use apps that fit into their lives. Windows 10 Mobile, to be fair, covers major apps like Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Of course Linkedin is missing along with Snapchat.  However if you are a Spotify user you find your music service crashes regularly and runs better on other platforms. With a retrenched mobile platform Cortana is unknown to most users who, at best, use it as a text search box on a PC. Augemented reality is going to mobile with Apple and Google putting on the device you already carry. Mobile payments are not on Windows (except in the USA). Mobile banking apps are gone. Electronic tickets for transit or railways are not on Windows 10 Mobile. This week Microsoft couldn't even keep the New York Police Department on their phones. Whatever the mobile strategy Microsoft have unless there are compelling reasons to put a Microsoft mobile device in your pocket it's not going to matter. Microsoft retrenchment shows that they dont matter in mobile. Joe Belfiore's phone is currently a Galaxy S8.
  • LinkedIn works on W10M and in 2 years had only one or two crashes on Spotify .
  • Didnt you get the latest email from linkedin? App is gone, Linked provides suite of apps for android and ios, there are more than 1 app on each platform, yet on W10M they want ppl to pin the mobile website.
  • agreed Stephen.   You hit the nail on the head...FYI people...Nutella's personal phone is the iphone 7+ too!
  • I have to giggle everytime I read a story that mentions Microsoft, strategy and mobile in the same story.
  • 😴
  • Folks the truth is Microsoft's strength in the Mobile World is in the 2 in one Surfaacre Pro Tablets & the Surface Book. some day when the new Surface laptop improves & gets "C" USB it will further strengthen Microsoft's place in the Mobile devices World. Microsoft's smart phone world died Whem Microsoft decided not to make replacements for the lumia 750, 950 and 950XL and decided to drop Windows 10 mobile they say for the Andromeda version of Windows 10 because it can run on 6 inch smart phone's screen up to a 65 inch Surface Hub interactive screen Device. I think Microsoft will create a Surface single or dual screen 7 / 8 PC Tablet Smart phone Hybrid device. Due to it's size it wont be for everyone but enough of them will be bought on a world wide basis to make it woth Microsoft's efforts ro make and sell them. I doubt that Microsoft will ever make a smart phones again just small smart phone tablet hybrids   
  • I would not say that MS won't ever make a smartphone again.. So, let's look at it like this. Sometimes you have to do good in (or create) one segment to make you relevant in the next... For example, without the original Surface MS wouldn't have had a chance selling the Surface Book, or the Surface Laptop... If MS does make a super portable Surface device, and it works, then later they may be able to convince people to buy a conventional form factored smartphone running full Windows as well... I don't think the smartphone form factor is going anywhere anytime soon, so it may benefit MS to get back in one day. It just depends on how they do with Windows on Mobile devices in the future.
  • When Microsoft does debut the Surface PC Mini Tablet Smart Phone hybrids. I will buy one because I detest working on small smart phone screens. you keep doing that and you willl soon need eye glasses. This device will have plenty of apps because it wil lrun Windows 10 store apps and Centennial win 32 PC programs
  • Gregory...then your already covered...Just buy a surface and be done...why wait for a small device that you don't like using?
  • Certified batshit
  • Whatever future would be for WM but we should have not ingored present. People were using Windows Phone and proudly saying it as their productive device. We were not worrying of APP GAP. Differintiating factor is MS's own fine-tuned apps(till W8.1). We had good music service(was perfectly working for India). We had most stable navigation apps like here maps, here drive, City Lens. It was just perfect world!! Suddendly things changed(WM10), apps were removed(there we lost hopes)!! Grove (even in latest preview) is not recognizing album arts. It is frustrating. I am back to WM8.1 for stabilty reasons.( i want my photos app to work without any crash) and still happy. My view is that Microsoft should come forward and stand against windows mobile(ARM or non ARM), market it to doorstep and provide strong base of its own native apps. That should suffice.    
  • Very few people were using Windows phones and the only ones they sold were the cheapest possible. It wasn't sustainable and they had no viable path forward. There was nothing they could do to make a Windows phone successful. It was impossible. That is why you won't see another one in the near future or probably ever. If they don't use ARM for a mobile device, what would they use?! There is no other choice!
  • I am really waiting for that Surface Mobile to come true. I am on the edge of switching platform (my wife did it 2 years ago), but thinking on how I will transfer all my messages, WhatsApp data, etc., from a Windows Mobile to iOS or Android is giving me a headache. Also, I loved my 1520 and I love my 950 now. I think the Lumia 950 was created with most of the top of the line and cutting edge technology two years ago (we are starting to see the usb-c port, iris scanner, etc. in new phones now, my 950 came with those and other great features 2 years ago).
    I would love to switch to a Surface Mobile, but I think it will not be a success in the mobile arena because of few reasons: High-end price, lack of apps and the constant reboot of Windows Phone. The lack of apps is real and I don't see that changing in the near future. Because of price, not many people will use it and developers will not engage because of that. Just recently I got an Android Phone just to use some apps I need while using my 950 for my phone and emailing activities. Why will some (or many) people buy a Surface Mobile if they will not be able to control their ac thermostat, surveillance systems, smart lights and switches and many other apps we are surrounded by now? And I am not talking about games, talking about everyday use apps. Will they have to have another mobile device just for that and a Surface Mobile to use it as a pc and phone? Makes no sense. So, if Microsoft doesn't come out with a real solution to the gap of apps, I don't see the Surface Mobile been a success, and I also extend that comment to the Surface Pro line. I have friends that they bought Surface Pro and they just put them aside (without apps even the Surface tablets will be going to lose terrain and probably MS will stop supporting them and the hopefully-coming Surface Mobile).
  • Ah Jason. I might have guessed :)) Another delusional article after NYPD gave the middle finger to Microshit and Flipboard did the same.
  • One thing you may not realize mmgn is that our editorial planning is a week in advance. This piece was already scheduled before the NYPD new story broke.
  • Microsoft should concentrate on getting more apps on W10M , and release one or 2 new phones , period . I dont think it will be scrapped in 2018 .W10M works on low and medium range phones which is the bulk of the market . Full W10 won't . desktop apps are not meant for small screens and without apps u know the story .. There must be 100 reasons why W10 on ARM will be successful on small form factors , but right now I can't think of one .
  • Wouldn't the ARM version be a tablet by another name?
  • This is reminiscent of when Don Mattrick said we have the Xbox 360 for offline gaming back when the Xbox One was meant to be an always online system.
  • Was with Windows mobile right from the start, but there is no way I would jump back in the win mobile platform even if they do introduce something new. Not being able to continue with WM after my 950 XL Left me no choice but to switch to Android.
  • I don't see Windows 10 S driving UWP app development just because store apps are the only option on it. Windows 10 Mobile/Phone didn't succeed there. For the desktop (or tablet), problem is 'S' falls back again to why Windows RT was rejected. Doesn't run their Win32 apps. Yes, it could if people bothered to convert their Win32 apps into store apps, but they won't (not on mass anyway). Chicken and egg. Without the apps, no one buys the devices, and without the devices, no one builds the apps. Win 10 on ARM does something different in making full Windows and Win32 subsystem in theory run on ARM. Cheap low power tablet potential, like RT devices, but does run everyone's favourite software. A good move, but hard to compete with the mass of cheap far eastern Android tablets. In theory works for phones too, but who needs desktop apps on a phone? It still also doesn't deliver UWP apps, so the app gap remains, devices won't sell.  
  • Yeah Jason, it's all coming together. It's called implosion.
  • Microsoft's entire campus gets swallowed in a an earthquake, JW: "Why the end of Microsoft HQ is great for ultra mobile Windows devices"
    Every Windows device on the planet spontaneously combusts, JW: "How melted silicon could improve Microsoft's plans for future ultra mobile devices"
    Aliens arrive and conquer all of North America, JW: "Why the alien occupation doesn't mean the end of Microsoft's ultra mobile device plans"
  • ROFL, perfect Satire, I seriously want this dude to just stop writing now. He looks for positives in whatever MS does and links it to mobile game somehow but also ignores many other factors that clearly contradict him. For example Window10S can attract developers, but it is not some future product, it is here and it is not attracting developers at all. Failure to acknowledge actual facts and dwelling in fantasies have made this column more of a comedy where ppl just come for their weekly dose of comedy.
  • Hi Techiez an acknowledgement that Microsoft is a company with a desire for present and future relevance in personal computing will cause us to look at what the company's desires and objectives are, not just at the success or failure of their actions as the determining factors of their intent. Sometimes a person who wants a college degree, who studies, gets proper rest, abstains from distracting activities and takes a test, ultimately fails that test. That failure is not evidence the student does not want or is not working hard to get that college degree. It's simply evidence that somewhere along the line there was some breakdown connecting the students' performance with the successful attainment of his intent and goal, whether it was his not grasping the material, missing important information during his studies or some other factor. The same is true of Microsoft; its intent has been to succeed in mobile, thus they act but may not always succeed in their actions. (I've also acknowledged multiple failures or what I deem poor decisions such as focusng W10M on the enterprise) Windows 10 S is a form of Windows Microsoft intends to become the primary form of Windows on desktop in the long run as it tries to move from Win32 to UWP Store apps. This is a fact. Windows 10 S (and Project Centennial) is therefore intended as a target for developers to create these Store apps or convert Win32 apps. A launch of first and third party Windows S devices particularly beginning in a "controlled" environment such as the education sector which is the initial focus potentially creates incentive and purpose (a reason) for developers to create UWP apps for Windows S devices in the education sector. Growth is desired to increase from there helping to populate the Store and build the Windows ecosystem. With Windows 10 S and Surface Laptop, Microsoft takes aim at Google and Apple https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-takes-chromebooks-and-macbooks-windows-10-s-and-surface-laptop The fallacy that I notice you and some others succumbing to is equating a failure of an intended strategy as an indication that there is no strategy. For instance, do you honestly believe that it is not Microsoft's intent for developers to develop UWP apps for Windows 10 S which would be building apps for all of the Windows 10 ecosystem? Note: Follow Stefan Wick from Microsoft on LinkedIn. He has actively posted on Microsoft's activity with Project Centennial and he also did a Centennial Presentation at Build 2017 (you can find the video online), and he as also did this Q & A with me regarding Project Centennial earlier this year: Why Windows 10 S, Project Centennial are critical to Continuum's success https://www.windowscentral.com/why-windows-s-and-project-centennial-are-important-continuums-success
  • Microsoft must realize that a lot of people neither want not can afford a do-everything always on PC in a handset like firm factor. Put simply, Microsoft need WM10 for people who actually want a phone, and who don't want to pay Surface like prices.
  • MS realizes that and hence it will not launch this in mass market to compete with iphones, MS knows that, it knows its target audience, the device will be niche like surface studio, its just that JW and some of the fans dont realize it yet.
  • Here techiez reread the "WRAP UP Microsoft's strategy, I believe, is the unprecedented synergy or merger of a mobile and PC effort. It's an uphill battle that isn't targeting the iPhone or Android phones. It's about carving out a position for a new type of telephony-enabled PC with support from OEM partners. There are no guarantees but if that proves to be a solid, albeit initially small market, it may be stable enough for developers to target these ultramobile PCs with mobile-specific apps as well."
  • your visionis that these devices willbe mainstream like surface pros, etc, No MS wont make that mistake, it will pick a niche category where it sees free space, like it did for surface studio, its not a merger of mobile and pc efforts, it is notsomething new, it is not unprecedented, there are already devices by motorola etc which run on Windows mobile and run custom made applications. Now look at what nypd did, they had custom applications deployed on windows phones, that is what MS would target,not a consumer device. stop giving so muchcoverage to this.
  • I think I see where MS are going with this and tbh it does sound like another way of achieving the same goal, I am slightly mystified why they abandoned phones alltogether, as continuum seemed to be the path to a device Ive wanted since the late 90's. I hope they get something out there from mobile telephony by 2018 of im just going to have to go all skype and buy a decent bluetooth headset linked to a tablet.   
  • Because they don't believe in Continuum. That idea has already failed; it went nowhere. This is also why Jason's vision has been abandoned by Microsoft and they have started backtracking. I think we will hear more as Microsoft begins to move away from the UMPC. There is no advantage to an ultra mobile PC. That idea is stuck in 2005 before the cloud made all your data ubiquitous. There is no way a single 5-6" device from Microsoft will give you a better phone experience than an Android or iPhone as well as a better PC experience than a Surface Pro. With all the peripherials you would have to carry around, a modern smartphone and Ultrabook will be much easier to carry and less complicated. UMPC is a boondoggle. Microsoft is too smart more to continue pursuing a pointless form factor.
  • If Microsoft has these big plans to release an"ultra mobile PC" then why aren't they putting more resources and effort into UWP? Their recent handling of UWP seems more like they are moving away from it, which is the exact opposite of what we would expect from such a strategy. Microsoft should be leading by example and releasing the best apps that are fully composable on their own platforms. The minimal amount of effort they seem to be putting into UWP seems to say they no longer believe in that future. Joe's statements also support that idea. They will keep W10M around in the off chance someone wants to make a device and so they can say they have mobile, but they are not putting any effort in because there will be no return on the investment. Actions speak louder than words, and right now Microsoft's actions and words do not scream "UMPC". It sounds and looks more like they are trying to keep Windows desktops relevant.
  • I thought the mass delusion would have run out of mass by now.
  • Better tablet experience : that is what WoA is. Tablet, phone and PC are different categories, you cannot replace one by the other because they serve different use cases. It is not the capacity of the device that matters but form factor with association with the use case. Putting a SnapDragon 835 in a tablet does not change anything, however nice it is to use a tablet as a small portable PC which I can already do without the SoC part from Qualcomm. I can guarantee you I will not use my tablet as a phone anytime soon. Also you have to consider the separation between the business and consumer worlds. Ther are reasons why people have separate business and consumer devices at the same time and both worlds should not mix anytime soon. No one wants AirWatch from work to monitor your family's communications ! There is no convenient way to do that without keeping separate devices. So now there is not only the "app" gap, there is also a "device" gap in Microsoft's offering. That gap will be a major pain for companies that run mostly on Windows platforms and that prepare to make the jump to Windows 10 (I mean for the "work phone" part). Where is the Surface Phone ? Just take Windows 10 on ARM, enable CShell, deploy on phone factor with SD835 and there you have it Surface Phone. Why can everyone see that, but Microsoft ?  
  • Wrong! Consumer and business worlds are closer than you think. Most companies use BYOD policies and tell me, which company is now stupid enough to believe anything Microsoon is saying or will say (IF) about any mobile stuff and phones?? NYPD is the perfect example of how Microsoft managed to kick right in the @$$ the biggest police force in the US. The entire world has seen this and I'm glad that this has gone public! While I do feel sorry for the NYPD for having to spend more money to rebuild their stuff now, MS deserved every bit of face slapping, on purpose or not, that came out of this mess! When an institution such as the NYPD comes out and says pretty much directly: FY MS for your crap phone business plan, you as a company should really rethink your strategy and your image...
  • Windows 10 "S" should be the precursing revelation to any thought of a W10M/WoA conception.  Your phone should only run Windows 10 Apps - so, if it can run on W10S, logically - it can run on W10M/WoA (right??). Once the ARM chip (with Telephony) is on a tablet (or smaller handheld device) - there is no reason that the device cannot be phone-enabled.  Either we can carry a man-bag with a tablet in it and a headphone - or we can carry a micro-tablet that works as a phone.  It's a solid direction (the Windows-S to Arm to W10M/WoA progression).  I just wish they would / could - 'really share' their vision.  A company without Vision Dies...  A company that doesn't share it's vision - loses customers!
  • If you think that anyone would be eager to talk to a 7" tablet and look like circus clowns, you are clearly out of your mind. An android or ios user would never switch to a 7" tablet and be able to use it as a phone only with a headset...wTF are you guys smoking?
  • As a Tech Lead (and other duties even unassigned) - my phone AND tablet go with me everywhere.  I am never far from my Samsung Book (with LTE).  If you put telephony on it - I would carry a man-bag (everywhere) and a bluetooth headset.  As long as I am 30ft (today's range or 200ft near future range) - I'd just click my headset and start talking.  Match that with a watch - and I'd know who is calling.  Six Inch Phones are out "Now".   What's another inch or two? Then again, I live in Idaho - and we aren't supposed to smoke the good stuff.  The good stuff comes from the west-coast (Know anyone there??)...
  • As a windows fan I'm very encouraged by Nadella's stance on windows in general. https://www.windowscentral.com/why-nadella-thinks-continuum-defining-fea.... and by the high quality of the surface line in particular. Microsoft is GOOD with the hardware now, why wouldn't they make surface phone?
  • Why does their strategy, if they have one, have to be secret? C'mon, Microsoft - let us know what you are doing. Should I wait for a Surface Phone and Continuum being updated. or should I just give up and go to Android? No, I will not buy a Crapple product.
  • Have you fanboys ever wondered that the reason they do not say anything about mobile is maybe because they DO NOT HAVE any plan???? in your fantasy world full of pink ponies, have you even thought of this for 1 sec at least?
  • So translated this means they are switching up once again like they have done in the past and expect us to buy new phones.  Tell you what i think i will leave windows 10 on my pc but for my phone i think Android is where I'll be heading.  Just tired of getting screwed over ... at least with android i can go custom ROM !!
  • Just looking at a few sentences here:  "Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella's assertion that Continuum-enabled mobile devices will be able to serve as a user's only PC". ...how about a phone? "There are no guarantees but if that proves to be a solid, albeit initially small market, it may be stable enough for developers to target these ultramobile PCs with mobile-specific apps as well.".......like the Windows Phone market? "This Windows 10 with CShell ultramobile PC will.....be an evolving category. Like most tech, it won't upon introduction be in power and capabilities what it is ultimately intended to be"....in other words, where Microsoft was at before some genius decided to trash the goodwill and commitment of many die hard fans by abandoning Windows Phone (W10M, or earlier) Why doesn't Microsoft undertand that people still want a Windows Phone....W10M may not be the perfect vision, but for many, it worked. And  when Microsoft introduced a better gadget, we would be the first ones to buy it. Microsoft should have heeded all of the folks upset with them over their trashing of the phone. Profits important? They could have raised the price a little and still offered the Lumia or similiar device for folks who simply aren't going to fork out a thousand bucks for a phone.  I went phone shopping today and seriously looked at iOS & Droids.....and don't like either.  Like it or not Microsoft, the smart phone isn't going away. But your customers are.               
  • We are wasting our words...MS does not care or is simply not capable of understanding that we live in the present! and in the present day we use those pocket devices that have MOBILE APPS!! not freakin useless bots or crappy web wrappers! PROPERLY supported APPS! MS's marketing, PR, customer service, quality of delivery and quality control are a mess! purely mediocre! 
  • I think folks that think MS is going to make a comeback in the mobile arena are delusional.  That ship has sailed a long time ago never to return.
  • Just like the Windows 10 desktop version has a Linux subsystem and the ability to run Linux daemons and even some apps, the Windows 10 on ARM version needs an Android subsystem and Google Play support to run Android apps as close to native as possible on the mobile version. That gets around the app gap while transitioning to UWP. By the same token, I wish Amazon would add full Google Play services support to their version of Android 5.1 (FireOS).  
  • whatever its is does not matter. If we cant see a W10M OS & hardware in this year then forgot its future. This is the right time for microsoft to do something in Mobile. Otherwise majority of the fans will move to android & IOS. I am not talking about LUMIA 950 & 950XL owners. I know they are enjoying lots but forcefully as they had spend lots of money to buy it and now they cnt afford to switch for high end IOS & Android devices. So please dnt make that useless comment of enjoying.
    Nadella sir had totally spoil the image of Microsoft in W10M. Bcoz on one Microsoft ending support current W10M in 2018 & also not talking about it.
    This time also giving LOLIPOP to customers in terms of ARM, first they giving like telling 'CLOUD FIRST, MOBILE FIRST' and then given a lolipop. They cant able to stay on there words and directly tell no support after 2018 for current W10M devices. Microsoft knows how make people fool. But they dont know about W10M.
  • Microsoft doesn't know **** about mobile anymore because Nadella made sure to fire all the enginners who had any knowledge...
  • NYPD surrender their Windows Phones, plans to buy 36,000 iPhones
  • Frankly... ""we have Windows 10 Mobile for the phone experience" kinda reminds me when Don Mattrick replied to question about gamers who don't want to/can't be online all the time. Yep, "We have console for that, it is called Xbox 360". Pointing to tech that is basically EOL or quickly becoming irrelevant is really bad way to communicate with customers. In Don's defense, X360 was - at the time - much more relevant than Windows 10 mobile is right now... and yet it backfired badly on both Don and Microsoft. I'm surprised to hear this type of argument at this moment in time. It only shows how disconnected with customers Microsoft can be. While Intel, AMD, Nvidia... hae road maps to communicate with customers and media about future of their products and technologies, Microsoft is not showing even the smallest, most feeble effort to convince us that they are planning to stay and play in smartphone segment. Since I really like how well WP integrates with Outlook.com, I'd be willing to stick with my 950 XL for longer, if only I'd new that Microsoft does have battle plan. But with what I'm perceiving as complete lack of interest, everyday I'm getting closer to switch to either Android or iPhone.
  • Wasn't the app gap the reason why MS cowardly let Windows Phone die and give up on their fans? 
  • Not quite...the reason was another one: Nadella
  • This is a more realistic take on MS mobile. http://www.zdnet.com/article/does-microsofts-brass-still-believe-it-has-...
  • Believe me, if Microsoft shows serious about W10M:
    As they did when they released it.
    KEEP commitment to customer/business for their OS.
    Releasing Surface Phone with pen and foldable device.
    Improve Continuum feature. Believe me, believe me, believe me they will jump from 1% to 12% at least within 2 years. Keeping this effort, spirit, and improving Surface Phone, for sure they will score more than 30% within another 2 to 3 years, with a strategy of (your pc in your pocket). Because, it's their great power to battle other platforms, you can add to that continue your Xbox games on your Surface Phone while going out. Same idea with PSP or PS Vita from Sony PlayStation.
    I think Microsoft has all the keys to success, but they keep pushing out their customers and fans. So sad!!
  • no one will buy any crap surface phone without mobile apps! a pocket device needs mobile apps first! and after that the other things such as imroved continuum etc.
  • When I can no longer use ebay, paypal and flipboard because not only are the apps not supported some have been actively removed, why should I ever trust a mobile MS platform again?
  • I guess that is one way to spin it.  But the likelihood that the future looks like this is slim. This is a shame because the windows 8/10 interface was easily the best UI on a phone in my opinion.  W10M had a chance pull off the seemless integration between my phone and my PCs.  I know the party line is that C-Shell will do this but I doubt it at this point.
  • When are we all going to just accept the fact there is no, and will not be, a Surface Phone or any other Windows Mobile phone again?