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What's next for Windows 10 Mobile and existing Windows phones

Lumia 950 XL
Lumia 950 XL (Image credit: Windows Central)

The future of Windows 10 Mobile has been a popular topic among fans and critics ever since Microsoft announced that development of Windows 10 Mobile would be moving to a new "feature2" branch and remaining there. While Microsoft has said this change is insignificant, my sources paint a different story; that Windows 10 Mobile development has been separated from the rest of Windows 10 on other platforms. But why?

Microsoft has separated Windows 10 Mobile development away from the rest of Windows 10 because Windows 10 Mobile is no longer needed for what Microsoft is planning next for Windows on mobile devices. My contacts suggest that Microsoft's next mobile device (codenamed Andromeda) will be running something internally referred to as Windows Core OS; a version of Windows that aims to be modular enough to run on any form factor, and as a result removes the need for a separate "Windows 10 Mobile" SKU.

Because of this, Microsoft no longer needs a phone-specific version of Windows 10, which means Windows 10 Mobile is now redundant. This is great news, except for one crucial detail; existing Windows phones won't be getting an upgrade to this "Windows Core OS." So what's next for existing devices? Well first, it's important to understand what the feature2 development branch is actually for.

The feature2 branch

According to my sources, the feature2 branch exists to continue supporting existing Windows phone handsets over the next year and a half. The feature2 branch's main goal is to continue servicing Windows 10 Mobile devices through 2018 with bug fixes, security updates, and new Enterprise specific features. I'm also told Microsoft may backport some UWP APIs that are introduced in Redstone 3 and Redstone 4 on PC over the next year. Microsoft itself has also confirmed that it will be bringing new APIs to Windows 10 Mobile.

The reason these APIs are being "backported" and not natively introduced is because the feature2 branch is technically Redstone 2 under the hood. When Microsoft branched off Windows 10 Mobile into the feature2 branch, it also froze OneCore development at Redstone 2. Now, considering Windows 10 Mobile won't be rejoining the rest of Windows 10 development, this means Windows 10 Mobile will be keeping with Redstone 2 for the remainder of its life.

So, to compensate for this, Microsoft will backport some UWP APIs that get introduced in Redstone 3 and Redstone 4. This means that if an app developer is targeting any new UWP APIs that get introduced in the next couple of Windows 10 releases, those apps will continue to work on Windows 10 Mobile. This should give Windows 10 Mobile an extra push of life through the next year or so.

This is why there's no "skip ahead" option for Windows 10 Mobile devices, because there is no Redstone 3 or Redstone 4 development of Windows 10 Mobile happening internally. There's simply nothing to skip ahead to. The only Windows 10 Mobile development ongoing now is in the feature2 branch, which as we've already established, is still Redstone 2.

It is true that for a while, Microsoft did continue compiling Redstone 3 builds of Windows 10 Mobile internally, but only to continue developing CShell on smaller, current engineering devices. However, I'm told that as of last month, that is no longer the case, as CShell is not coming to existing Windows phones. It's also worth noting that Microsoft's effort of backporting new APIs to Windows 10 Mobile is only planned up to Redstone 4, but that could change down the line.

App support won't last forever

After APIs stop getting backported, Windows 10 Mobile devices will very quickly fall behind the rest of Windows 10 when it comes to UWP app support. As developers start targeting new APIs that get introduced in Redstone 5, those apps won't be able to run on feature2 Windows 10 Mobile, meaning devices like the Lumia 950 and HP Elite x3 will quickly lose app support. Microsoft may continue to service Windows 10 Mobile with security updates throughout 2018 however.

Microsoft will continue to release production builds of Windows 10 Mobile outside of the Insider Program as well, and may even continue to align them with PC releases like the Fall Creators Update. But since development between Mobile and Desktop is now separate, Microsoft can opt to release Mobile updates on its own schedule if it wants.

So in short, Microsoft is keeping Windows 10 Mobile around for the foreseeable future to cater to its remaining users. The company is hoping to have its next attempt at Windows 10 on a mobile device ready before it drops support for Windows 10 Mobile entirely, which we're expecting will happen by the end of 2018.

I think it's fair to say that Microsoft's next attempt at Windows on mobile devices is some sort of reboot, as existing Windows phones will not be getting an update to it. Just like Windows Phone 7.8, Windows 10 Mobile feature2 updates will be small and cater to the few who remain on the platform, with Microsoft focusing most of its efforts on its new Andromeda device, which will have CShell too, of course.

Zac Bowden
Zac Bowden

Zac Bowden is a Senior Editor at Windows Central. Bringing you exclusive coverage into the world of Windows 10 on PCs, tablets, phones, and more. Also an avid collector of rare Microsoft prototype devices! Keep in touch on Twitter: @zacbowden.

  • Jeeez 😨, so we not getting CShell? The only thing I hoped for?....and I thought Continuum would get better.
  • depends what is still worked on for enterprise
  • The enterprise update without any continuum improvements will be basically USELESS to us. CShell was bring those improvements and now it's no more. I feel like crying.
  • 90% of enterprise users user outlook and edge 90% of the time, and corporate apps are often web based and most companies use laptops it tablets instead of continuum. SK the actual effect will be minimal.
  • Yes, existing Windows phones will not be getting CShell. Microsoft is saving that for its next attempt at phones.
  • Zac can you clear this for me, I still want something to hope for. Is CShell different from the Continuum improvements you demoed? Or they are the same? What good thing can the so called Enterprise update bring to the table?
  • The Continuum improvements are part of CShell. I don't think existing phones will be getting those improvements. And I'm not sure what the Enterprise features are that Microsoft has planned.
  • Ooh boy, what a sad day to begin my week with 😞
  • What's so sad about it? Your device is old. Newer devices, with an all new system, is coming... This is EXACTLY what we expected, and hoped for. Feel good about this; this is terrific news❗
  • I agree. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. My first smartphone was a Sony Xperia Z, it got stuck on Android 4.3, whereas my wife's Samsung was able to get 5.0.  .  IMO, this is similar older, devices won't be getting the newer software. by the end of 2018 the Lumia 950 will be 3 years old.
  • Exactly..
  • Probably involves spreadsheets.
  • Oh, continuing the app discussion from the other day (because some fan in denial asked "what apps are we missing?")..... Just saw a commercial for Safelite auto glass repair... Guess what?.. They have an app that will help you get them right out with a few clicks.... Does Windows Mobile have this?
  • Speaking of which, do you know how long the app MileIQ has been owned by Microsoft? Since at least 2011! During that time, has it EVER shown up in our app store? NOPE!!!
  • Lol.. Holy Moly... Triple SMDH
    Hey, label it a garage project, and you're off the hook!
  • rodneyej - I think it has been clear for a while now. If you need a new phone, go and get yourself one Android Phone. (That's what Microsoft said in not so many words) when they start selling Samsung Galaxy in their store. I have allready ordred OnePlus 5, so that I have some backup, when it will be too combersome to use my Lumia 950 XL. As it is now, it works just fine, but some of the apps that are common in Norway will stop working in September. (Since they already has an working app for WP, I don't understand why they will close it down. But not much I can do about it anyway.)
  • me too one plus 5 i can't wait to get my hands on it 8gb ram seamless 
  • Well, I can't disagree with that... But, for the record, I'm still using this 950, and besides the relatively horrific app situation, it's actually very nice experience after tons of updates... Luckily I use all the MS the majority of the time, and they are terrific on Windows Mobile. That's pretty much the thing holding my WP experience together. That, and the 950 STILL takes really good pics. Maybe not the best pics, by todays standard, but still good by mine.
  • They also come right out if you call them on the phone. Don't need an app for that.
  • Lol.. Shut it. That's besides the point, and counter productive.
  • have you got a broken windscreen? Why would you install an app for a once in a blue moon event? I wouldn't bother, just ring a real person instead!
  • Once again, that's besides the point, and this is only one of hundreds of thousands of useful apps that are available on other platforms. The Safelite app is arbitrary... Now, are you gonna sit here, and make a case up for the other two million apps, one, by one?.. Lol.
  • Because of this, Microsoft no longer needs a phone-specific version of Windows 10
    Except W10M is not a phone specific version of W10M. It as, at most, a version of Windows 10 for smaller displays that support only touch input. As you may remember, the developers of W10M originally also envisioned it running on tablets. That was also reported on by WCentral at the time. W10M was never released on any other type of device but phones, but that is a seperate issue. You are mischaracterizing what W10M is. You're right that it is designed to run on small form factor devices, and while that's the most obvious thing about it that pretty much anyone can pick up on, that's not its defining trait. W10M's defining trait is that it lacks Win32.
    Now, considering Windows 10 Mobile won't be rejoining the rest of Windows 10 development, this means Windows 10 Mobile will be keeping with Redstone 2 for the remainder of its life.
    Ehm, W10M doesn't have to rejoin W10 development. It's already part of W10. As long as MS can create a version of Windows without Win32 off the main branch, then W10M is still part of W10. They can, so W10M is still part of W10. I don't know enough about Andromeda to comment on it, but if it is a version of W10M without Win32, then it is just the newer, rebranded version of W10M.
  • @a5cent: Windows 10 Mobile *was* released on some small-name tablets. Secondly, W10M will not be part of the main branch of Windows 10 anymore though. That's what they're saying. It's stuck on Redstone 2. So its a part of an outdated version of Windows 10. But I believe all your other comments are simply getting into naming semantics. In any case, Andromeda is not just re-branded Windows 10 Mobile, even if it is Windows 10 without Win32, because it'll be on a different codebase. It may be a new product that will takeover the Windows 10 Mobile brand maybe?
  • @pjhenry1216 I know that WCentral is saying W10M will no longer be part of W10. They are wrong. WCentral spent two years steadfastly claiming W10M and W10 are the exact same thing. That was never correct. However, it is correct in regard to the parts that W10 and W10M shared. The parts that W10 and W10M shared up to Redstone 2 are still shared now. In W10 those parts are just further evolved, as happens with any software. W10M is defined by what it lacks, namely Win32, but it also had some components that were unique to itself. Once CShell is released, which is really just a combined and evolved version of both the W10 and W10M launchers, the last remaining component that was unique to W10M will be gone. At that point, every smartphone specific feature we currently associate with W10M will be integrated into the current W10 branch. We probably won't  call it W10M, but in terms of what it does, how it works, and what it's purpose "in life" is, it's exactly W10M. I don't really see how your last argument holds any water. Windows Vista had a different code base from W7. W7 had a different code base from W8. W8 had a different code base from W10. Yet they are all desktop Windows! Any version of Windows that excludes Win32 and runs only UWP software is effectively W10M's successor! That is the whole point of W10M and any OS that continues that is taking up the torch on W10M's behalf. W10M is just a branding/marketing term. So is Andromeda. What matters is what parts of Windows each edition contains. If two editions include the same parts (even if one edition's parts are further evolved), then it's the same edition of Windows. That's not about semantics, but about understanding how each adition of Windows is assembled, how the capabilities of each edition of Windows come about, and what role each edition plays in MS' OS portfolio. If Andromeda lacks Win32, supports the same UWP based APIs that W10M did, and serves the same role as W10M, but you refuse to acknowledge that it's really W10M's successor just because MS brands it differently, then I'd argue you are the one who is simply getting into naming semantics.
  • WC never said that it won't be a part of W10 going forward. They (AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD) are saying as a separate branch (of W10) it is redundant now, and won't be used in the future. That doesn't change what it is, rather it's purpose, which is dwindling.. Just EXACTLY as I said before, the idea is One Windows, for every device, that can adapt across form factor, and I was right [as usual (as any fool can see by the purpose of "Andromeda"🙄🙄🙄)]
    The way you perceive things; it's like you see what you want to read.. You're arguing about nothing. Just stop
  • @rodneyej 1) Never said it won't be part of W10 2) They are saying it's a seperate branch Make up your mind already. Either it's part of W10 or it's a seperate branch. It can't be both at the same time. Exactly as I said before, you're clueless to the point of not understanding what you yourself are saying, much less anyone else. Just stop.
  • When We say W10 we Generally mean W10 as a whole no matter the context... The base, underlying parts that make W10 W10..... When YOU say W10 it's quite obvious now that you are referring to desktop only.. 🙄🙄🙄🙄 Get with the program, and it will stop a lot of arguments with yourself.
  • As usual, you're wrong, but suit yourself. Nobody at MS uses the terms the way you think they should be used. W10M is a specific product. W10 is also specific product, not some generic foundation for all versions of Windows. W10M is, to a large extent, a subset of W10. Very soon, W10M will be a fully contained subset of W10. That is the true relationship between these editions of Windows. The people who actually work on this view it in that way, as does anybody else with a technically accurate understanding of the OS.
  • 🤦🏽.... The base kernel, the foundation, the base code is the same for all of W10... WM has been nothing but another branch of W10, as is Xbox, HoloLens, and IOT branches. But it's all technically W10... Well, those separate branches aren't needed anymore with an alleged "Andromeda" "branch" that is ultimately the mother of all "branches" for lack of a better word (had to throw that in there for you).... Quit making things complicated.
  • Maybe "taproot" would be a more appropriate allegorical term here. Meaning that Andromeda would be the taproot of all Windows' branches. Especially definition number two. Definition of taproot 1:  a primary root that grows vertically downward and gives off small lateral roots 2:  the central element or position in a line of growth or development
  • But, if look look at it from the perspective of what the leaked information gives us, and the concept behind Andromeda (or Cshell, because it sounds like they are the same thing) we aren't really talking about versions, branches, or taproots.. It's actually the opposite of all of that. It's a single OS shell that adapts across form factor. The different "usages" are all the same, not separate "branches", or extensions of W10.... We're saying the same thing, but in different ways. The problem with perception is that we are dealing with two things. The way the UI looks, and behaves, and the underlying code of the UI. When things look different on the Surface our human nature wants us to start categorizing them accordingly, and we forget that the visual aspect is just an illusion, in a sense. It's a distractor from the big picture, which is reality... General Motors Alpha platform underpins the current Camaro, and Cadillac ATS sedan, and coupe... Three very different looking cars. In this case Andromeda would be what makes these cars look, and function different to the driver, or consumer, and the Alpha platform would be the underlying code that makes these cars, well cars, using a highly modular platform ... The underlying code of W10 makes it an OS. Yes, that definitely makes W10 an OS, but Cshell/Andromeda allows Windows 10 to make sense, and be user friendly on Xbox, HoloLens, Mobile, or whatever form factor it runs into. The OS will be intelligent enough to "transform" on it's own, taking specific variables into account, adjusting accordingly, dynamically,, and in real time......
    MS needs W10 to shape shift like it's after John Conner, and that's what all this is about. One Windows will be ONE windows for all (devices), even though users like a5cent can't get over the fact that they may appear to look different on different devices, and think they're literally different products.... Sigggghh, this is not totally rocket science. Lol
  • Well seperate branches will still be needed, I do get a5cent's point that for a long time WC's reporting was inaccurate, ofcourse MS was never clear about it and WC needed someone more technical to advise them on this. if you think Andromeda is one OS that would end the need of having seperate branches then remember why band3 was cancelled because they couldnt make W10 iot work on it. also each of the Branch for ex W10M has a lot of functionality added to it which is seperate from W10 Desktop, now imagine if everything is added to W10 as part of andromeda as you say then W10 will be a hell lot of heavy, buggy + enterprise would never want it(key factor here) so even Andromeda will still be a seperate branch but it will probably be built ground up in a different manner than W10M and will be more feature rich. Window 10 desktop(referred to as Windows 10) will continue to be seperate.   Atbest Andromeda will cater to all 2in1s, 3in1s and (4in1s :P ) but not hololens iot etc
  • See, your usage of the word Branch is what we're trying to explain (and stop) here... That's what's causing confusion.
  • @Rodneyej All you're doing here is proving your ignorance. It appears you also don't know what a "branch" is or how a branch works. You're guessing that with Andromeda, MS will no longer have to maintain seperate branches for each edition of Windows. At least in regard to W10M and W10, that hasn't been necessary for quite some time already! The fact that many W10 and W10M releases for the insider program carried the same version number and were released on the same day makes it obvious that both W10 and W10M were generated off the same branch, meaning both W10 and W10M were at least together in the same branch at one point! That's nothing new. That was true for Redstone2, which was the stem for W10M's feature2 branch. Restone2 includes not just OneCore, but the entire Windows OS, everything from Windows Server down to Windows IoT. By the time Redstone3 came along, the feature2 branch had already been created. Apparently you believe W10M currently exists only in the feature2 branch and nowhere else. Just reading WCentral and not being entirely clueless easily debunks that misconception however. WCentral reported on how W10M was being built off of Redstone3 for CShell development. The Redstone3 branch was created off the main W10 branch, which proves that W10M is also still part of that. In other words, everything that comprised W10M (by now probably with the exception of the launcher as that is being replaced by CShell) is still in the current W10 branch. Just because W10M devices aren't getting serviced from that branch doesn't mean W10M doesn't exist in it. I realize you're too stubborn and too focused on saving face to believe someone who earns a living developing software and who has worked on operating systems. You'd do well to rethink that as you're really just making yourself look foolish.
  • Well, we'll all just have to wait, and see, now won't we...
  • And, mister word man.. Here's a new word for you... "Arbitrary". Go look that one up. It would seriously help you progress in discussion.
  • @a5cent: based on your understanding of the term "branch" you're not a developer and therefore shouldn't be trying to take any meaning from that term. You can be part of W10 and still be a separate branch. The fact you don't understand that further shows the foundation of all the confusion throughout all of your posts.
  • @pjhenry1216 I've held lead technical positions in development of commercial RT operating systems and for the development of core components of large scale distributed datacenter systems. I think I'm better qualified than most to understand these things. The only thing I can come up with is that english may be getting in my way, as it isn't my native language, but I doubt it. More importantly, I agree, W10M can be contained in multiple branches of W10. How else could W10M be part of W10 in multiple redstone branches? I've said as much multiple times. However, W10M can't simulteneously be both in the current W10 branch and not be in it. It's either contained in the current W10 branch or it is not. Rodneyej implied W10M exists only in an older/outdated branch of W10, which means it is no longer contained in the current W10 branch. That is not true.
  • This guys mind is too stuck on the way things currently are, and has no concept of change, and new ways of doing things... That's why he keeps explaining the same old current W10 model over, and over.. He doesn't get the fact that MS is trying to change that... He's arguing about the way things are now, and we're talking about a new way MS is working towards....
    It's an impossible conversation with a closed minded, stuck on way way of doing things, person..
    Just let him rest in peace.
  • I'm the opposite of close minded. Your arguments are simply FUD. That's all.
  • Right. Everyone is wrong but you.......... Right. Patience, then. We'll just have to wait, and see how MS's plans unfold.
  • Actually, anything that excludes Win32 is a Windows RT successor not W10M successor. My understanding is that W10M can be installed on a tablet but is a very different entity from full windows 10, because up till now full windows 10 ran on x86 intel chipsets. W10M required different code to be able to run on ARM. Both run UWP because they share a lot of their code, but they're different in the way they approach processing. Now, there is a new full windows 10 coming that works on ARM, and a per my understanding the new OS being written about here is derived from this new Windows 10 for ARM. Windows 10 Mobile and the new OS will share a lot of things but are not the same I think. Of course I could be wrong. When windows central said W10M is a subset of Windows 10 I would think they're not totally wrong, but W10M was transitioning from WP7.8 to WP8.1 to W10M, specially considering W10M still supported Silverlight apps, and what they reported is now Microsoft sold it to everyone, and I totally understand you're upset, unfortunately that doesn't change the past or present.
  • @Unkitjc This is also very much incorrect. Windows RT included all of Win32. Windows RT wouldn't even have been able to run Notepad (it is a Win32 program), much less Microsoft Office, without Win32. I'm only aware of two versions of Windows that ever shipped without Win32. Windows IoT and W10M.
  • @a5cent: you're saying two different things in each post. In the first, you're saying whatever comes next will be the re-branded Windows 10 Mobile. In the second, you'll say its the successor to Windows 10 Mobile. Those two statements are fundamentally different. One is saying that it never went away and has a new brand. The other is saying something is taking its place with the old brand. You're saying polar opposites. I think that's what's confusing in your posts. I don't think various terms mean what you think they mean.
  • @pjhenry1216
    you're saying two different things in each post. In the first, you're saying whatever comes next will be the re-branded Windows 10 Mobile.
    That's not what I'm saying. Primarily because I don't know what comes next. What I am saying is that IF MS releases some other version of Windows that runs on small displays, which also omits Win32, and serves the purpose of pupularizing the UWP, AND they don't call it W10M (it would be stupid if they did due to W10M's toxicity) then we can consider that to be a rebranded version of W10M, as that's all W10M was.
    In the second, you'll say its the successor to Windows 10 Mobile. Those two statements are fundamentally different. One is saying that it never went away and has a new brand. The other is saying something is taking its place with the old brand. You're saying polar opposites. I think that's what's confusing in your posts. I don't think various terms mean what you think they mean.
    Apparently you believe being rebranded and being a successor are mutually exclusive things. Hence, you believe W10M was not the successor to WP8.1. If that is your position, then we'll have to agree to disagree. As far as I'm concerned W10M was clearly the rebranded successor of WP8.1, meaning one thing can be both at the same time. Being rebranded and being a successor are not necessarily fundamentally different things as you claim. If you disagree, I'd say you'd be placing far too much importance on naming semantics, which is ironic since that is what you initially accused me of. As far as I'm concerned, branding and marketing are irrelevant. As far as I'm concerned, a device that is technically derived from W10, excludes Win32, can run the same UWP apps as W10M, and which serves the same strategic goal as W10M, is W10M's sucessor, no matter what MS calls it.
  • You: "then it is just the newer, rebranded version of W10M"
    Me: "you're saying whatever comes next will be the re-branded Windows 10 Mobile."
    You: "That's not what I'm saying" i fail to see how a conversation can continue with exchanges like this.
  • But since Andromeda will not be only for ultra premium devices, the Idol 4 pro and Elite X3 should have been kept on the development. It just feels pointless to kill something if it'll still be Windows 10 on mobile. On the other side, does it mean that they have prototype device(s) where they develop Andromeda?
  • I don't understand why this concept is so hard for people to understand..
    Just imagine you have an old Windows Mobile 6.5 device.. No, you are not getting updated to Windows Phone 7... It's not sensible, from a marketing standpoint, and the hardware isn't only not supported, but can't efficiently run the next generation OS. End of story. Besides, who what's to run new software on old hardware in the first place?🤔🤔🤔
  • Exactly. Also, what MS needs are consumers like Apple has. Those that can't wait to dump $ on the next device, even if it's very little changed from the last.
  • I shouldn't have to throw in the fact that I'm a Windows Phone fan to offset the stupid bias by some immature fans,,, but, even as a WP fan I can say that each new iPhone has been a solid upgrade over the last... Have you ever read a new feature list when an iPhone is unveiled? It's actually a pretty good EVOLUTIONARY upgrade over the last, which is what it should be.. Hey, seriously, it's about the same evolutionary upgrade between the Surface Pro 3-4-"5", if you honestly look at it fairly... This is exactly the same thing you would see from a "Surface Phone"1-2-3-4-5,,,, so what more do you expect from Apple?.... Just saying.
  • Basically all the WP user since WP7. We all dumped a lot of money on Microsoft mobile os and WP devices.
  • @rodneyej That's technically, if not spiritually, incorrect as WP7 was still WinCE-based and the HD2 was able to run WP7. In fact, it ran better than the HD7 that replaced it. But I get your point. There does come a time when it's time to move on and this is one of those times.
  • Don't get me wrong.. I know exactly what you're talking about, and the HD2 would never die.. I'm sure that WOA could very possibly run on a Lumia 520. But, just as I said in my comment (if you go back and read it) not efficiently... Even though the XP could run WOA, with some engineering, it wouldn't be stable enough for a "consumer" product.. But, yes... Technically, I agree with you.
  • Hi  zac I know that cshell isn't coming to existing lumia phones my question is are we going to see a new mobile from Microsoft? or no chance we will ever see a new mobile device from Microsoft  please reply
  • It's in the article!
  • He does not work for MS.. No sense in asking him what MS's inner workings are conjuring... You're gonna have to wait for a solid leak, so be patient. Lol.
  • Been saying it for a while now ..the new Windows Mobile is Windows 10 S ...the fact that MS is giving W10 Pro users the option to side switch to Windows 10 S, only makes me more certain because they seem to be pushing for the OS.   This makes sense considering its made for all types of devices including low powered ones.  Its more "secure" and stable and the app store will truly be universal.
  • @abduz: the other important factor for Windows 10 on a mobile device is ARM-support though. So it's not simply going to be Windows 10 S. Maybe Windows 10 S on ARM? The best concept would be Windows 10 on ARM with Win32 support through Continuum.
  • Yess definitely through continuum, got caught up with writing, I forgot to mention continuum. It's basically like the demo they showed off to demo c-shell excepted more polished obviously. Since C-shell is playing a big role in the W10 OS, then it's definitely to make this achievable through mobile otherwise they wouldnt put so much effort towards the integration of it into the OS. Besides that, the Surface mobile, is meant to continue the trend of "do more" so by having all .exe converted to Store apps, these apps would automatically be available on mobile (10 S), making it the "mobile store" much richer, which in turn makes the device more appealing and convenient.   Once the mobile/continuum version gets polished and cleaned up, it would be much less work for MS to update when compared to having two variant OS' on their hands.    
  • Abduz... 🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🙄🙄🙄
  • yes...?
  • Lol.. The new Windows Mobile is WS.. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
  • Yes and that's my personal opinion/speculation and you can read my other reply above for even more clarity as to why I believe this.    If we are to laugh at each others opinions, then at this point I should be the one lol'ing the fact that you might possibly believe MS is working on an new mobile OS 😂   It's not far fetched to believe W10S is the New mobile OS with Continuum/CShell, especially considering the apps are locked down to Windows Store and that a demo of this has been shown on mobile.
  • No, I don't believe that MS is making a new mobile OS.. That's the point, and that's what we're trying to get you to understand, which has proven impossible.
    And, once again, your comment contradicts itself.... Dude, wow! Do you read what you write?
  • lol i think youre just misunderstanding me (which also probably explains why you think Im contradicting myself) because Im not saying MS is creating W10S for Mobile  ...what Im saying is, its the W10S OS that CAN/WILL be used for mobile for devices such as Surface, Phone tablets etc.    
  • "The Windows 10 on ARM effort is about enabling the PC experience on devices that are built on ARM so that they’re connected all the time and have great battery life. So the experience is a desktop PC experience, it’s not a phone-like experience." Windows 10 won't be used on mobile devices other than tablets. Joe Belfiore confirmed this. They have a new mobile platform they are working on. Maybe we will see it sometime next year.
  • @bleached MS's current strategy is one OS for all and they're pushing for .exe apps to be converted to Windows Store apps.  This is the ONLY way MS can tackle app store issue for mobile.  After the failure of WP7,8, 8.1 and 10 there is absolutely no way devs would develop for a seperate mobile OS.   Continuum debuted on mobile in what is now safe to say was a beta test to help develop it further.  This development has now become C-Shell (Continuum-Shell?), MS has worked very hard on to build into Windows 10/S.     A demo recently shown on WC, shows C-Shell working on mobile quite well (but clearly still needed more work) but it was Windows 10 morphing into a similar look and feel of current Windows 10 mobile, with the same resizable tiles and action center etc.  as desktop.   Where Continuum was made with vision from mobile transforming to bigger screen Windows 10-like interface ...C-Shell was made with the vision of transforming big screen Windows 10 into a mobile view.   This is or should be the fully realized and working version of Windows 10 that MS originally intended to release OS for all their products and Continuum/C-Shell is the key.  They can now focus on one OS, one store and features that work the same on all their Surface/Windows products.   I could be entirely wrong but my opinion derived from all that I have read and seen, as well as looking towards the future of mobile and computing.  So to say the least, to me this seems like a logical and excellent move for MS (especially concerning app store for mobile).              
  • It sounds like that one OS for all idea is being abandoned. We don't know if Andromeda is based on Windows 10 at all. It might be totally different and can only share apps. Its development being separate from Windows 10 doesn't sound like they are sticking with the one OS vision at least in the near future. Maybe Andromeda is going to replace Windows someday, but they currently sound like separate branches.
  • You could very well be right but whether Windows 10/S through C-Shell will be the new OS or anything else ..Windows 10 Mobile development was separated into a different branch only to eventually phase it out really and keep the platform updated until the new OS and devices are released.  This is even mentioned/confirmed in the article by WC, I think.   ...but personally I strongly believe that if MS was truly developing another OS for mobile, then they wouldnt have put so much effort into C-Shell.  Aside from that reason, if another OS were released for mobile, the Surface Mobile, would be the only Surface that doesnt function like the rest of that family.    MS has put so much into inking, My People hub, Fluent design and whatnot, that it is a lot easier for them (and logical) to move that same experience to mobile anyone who uses Surface, whether on Mobile, Tablet, Laptop, Desktop or HUb ...can have the same experience ...especially if they connect their mobile device to a bigger screen.  We as users, have everything to benefit from MS using the same OS, whether it's for the apps, updates, features, flexibility etc.  If they develope a seperate OS, it's going to be a much harder sell for MS to clients and developers, not to mention the risk and resources MS would have to face by starting from scratch again on a platform they have failed badly in multiple times.   If you havent watched the demo of C-Shell yet, then you definitely should, it will give you a better vision.    
  • If CShell was a component of Windows 10 and the plan was for it to scale from phones to PCs, then Joe would have said that. We don't really know right now how mobile will work out, but they did say Windows 10 isn't for phone experiences. That "CShell" leak might just be an early version of Andromeda.
  • Microsoft isn't developing another OS for anything.. The versions are easy to see.
    1. Standard W10 we have today, which can be bought with new laptops, and desktops, that don't need modulation.
    2. Windows 10 S, which is a Chromebook competitor, and a proof of concept for UWP
    3. Modular W10 with composable she'll aka "Andromeda" for OEM'S that need a modular OS that will compliment new device types that can benefit from it's dynamic nature. ...
    I'm not counting IOT, or any other custom W10 projects for enterprise.
    I suspect all of this will merg into one Windows eventually, but MS has the different aspects of W10 so that they can get products to market sooner. The continued merging of Windows10 into one OS that literally runs on everything will continue to be hamerd out in the background.... That's it. End of story.
  • IDK.. I guess we'll all just have to wait, and see.
  • Bye bye miss American pie.   Called this exactly as it is playing out.   Via win RT.   it's exactly what ma did with that.  Simple 
  • fanbaby tears downvotes....keep it up!!!!!
  • If you are to believe this gossip rag style of reporting....."Sources close to johnny depp say..". Literally two months ago he was telling us andromeda was an element of cshell (ie just something within cshell) - with the EXACT same certainty he's now telling us its the merged SKU of all windows OS. Take the boy who cried wolf and his chinese whispers sources with a pinch of salt. 
  • What exactly is there that's not believeable in this article? Do you think Microsoft is actually redesigning the os shell for years old devices? Or that redstone 3 & 4 are hitting your rockin Lumia 640 anytime soon? No mobile devices til late 2018? Not rebooting the entire mobile project again?
  • Windows 10 mobile will not get "C" Shell . FOLKS SAVE UP YOUR  MONEY  BECAUSE  if you want a NEW Windows smart phone from Microsoft.  You proably wont see one till 2018. It will probably run all Windows 10 store UWP apps and Centnnial converted Win 32 desktop PC programs that are in the Windows 10 store. Seems to me 2018 Wndows smart phones will close  to being a Pocket PC something some Windows smart phone fans want  
  • This strategy has been becoming more apparent ever since MS announced Windows on ARM. It would be helpful if MS was upfront about it. I'm sure their competition figured it out long ago. The only people they're trying to keep in the dark their users.
  • Fairly sure Joe Belfiore stated recently that Windows on ARM is not meant for phones. If I were to hazard a guess, Mobile is being deprecated because Windows 10 IoT has evolved enough that it can take its place - the leaked RS3 build for phones with CShell was, after all, from the RS_IOT branch.
  • I don't recall who stated it, but you're correct, someone said Windows on ARM isn't for phones and stated Windows 10 Mobile is what is meant for phones. What they didn't make clear is whether future versions of Windows 10 Mobile will be based on the new Windows 10 on ARM though.
  • I seem to miss that. any link?
  • deleted
  • ...exactly we already knew that, also sooner or later one of them was going to die because it was planned since the unification of the platform announced with Windows 10. They took something good from each and decided to merge into the Desktop OS which obviously is well know in the market :) so no surprise just waiting for the Surface on ARM device and others WoA from OEMs...
  • Agreed, there has been a distinct lack of communication and transparency from MS on this subject. At least we die-hard fans finally have a slightly more solid date than "soon" for the release of the next mobile device... sometime within the next 16 months.
  • Basically.  I find that we have to do this every 2 or three years.  I expect another reboot in 2023.  
  • Pretty much its happening as everyone called it. W10M is going to be on life support while this transition happens over the next year. As someone who went all in on Microsoft products over the last few years, I can't help but be disappointed over this. However, I am cautiously optimistic (excited maybe?) to see the capabilities that WOA is supposed to bring for mobile computing. My only hope is that WOA better be worth all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that us W10M users have had to go through. Don't screw this up Microsoft.
  • I thought I heard Dan saying last week he felt we finally hit rock bottom, and it couldn't get any worse. Unfortunately, I've felt that way every month since the day Nadella was hired. Shockingly, Nadella's Microsoft always seems to find a new rock bottom. As a consumer, it's just been 3.5 years of continual disappointments; phones, wearables, IOT (smart TVs, Speakers, car audio, etc.), HoloLens (AR), take your consumer pick. If you would have told me 3 years ago when Nadella was hired that Joe Belfiore would be praising how great his Samsung Android phone is, I would have assumed Samsung or Google hired him not that Microsoft was so inept. Total fail. Without Azure going insane, Microsoft would be trading at $10/share. Sad that one product is hiding the ugly truth.
  • We think alike but at least I'm happy they have a mobile strategy other than wait for a miracle.
  • They have always had a mobile strategy....they just can't execute worth a crap.
  • ...BUT......can Nadella find a new people's elbow???
  • Winodws 6.5, 7, 7.8, 8, 10 and now andromeda, so many reboots, it's about time Microsoft realizes that live tiles are the issue and time for a new and better UI. I really hope they really dont bet their next reboot on Cshell( untimely same UI as windows 10) and continuum. I think they are nice features but not life savers.
  • Live tiles are the issue? That's still the best part of WP. You really want the static icons of the other two OS's? No matter how much MS butchers the rest of the OS live tile home screen is still the best.
  • Agree live times are the best, the reason I had a 8 phone, but at least I had apps then
  • Yep you're right about that. And whatever MS has planned for mobile most likely ain't bringing devs and apps back either. This whole situation sucks.
  • >"You really want the static icons of the other two OS's?"
    >implying people on Android don't use more functional widgets
    Oh, please. And it's not like Live Tiles are all that great either. They look nice, but that's about it. You see info on a Live Tile, then it flips away! Now you gotta a) wait a few seconds for the info to flip back or b) open the app to read the info. I find this happening to me all the time with the News, Sports, Money, Weather. See info, see it flip away, wait...wait...all right, I'll just open the app. I'll take Android's actionable widgets any day.
  • That I agree with.. The live tile is a cool concept, but over the years it should've evolved to be more interactive.. Hopefully MS brings some "Mixed View" like functionality to W10 in the future.
  • How are you putting W10, and Andromeda, in the same categories as the mobile OS's?🙄🙄🙄
  • I also agree - live tiles are Windows 10 Mobile's best feature.
  • Yes, but MS needs to evolve them for future mobile efforts.. They need more actionable, Mixed View like, functionality. They aren't interactive enough for 2017.
  • kd2604:  I disagree, as Live TIles are one of the strongest remaining features of Windows mobile, which is why some of the other mobile OSs have copied parts of it.  The biggest problem has been MS' inability to develop and execute a consistent vision, especially in their mis-understanding of the consumer user base.  They understand enterprise, but the mobile switch from enterprise priority to personal priority (driven by the users) completely caught MS off guard, and they have a poor track record marketing to individual users.  Users demanded apps, and MS should've poured their millions into app development (instead of purchasing Nokia, and trying their hand with mobile hardware).
  • dgr_874.  I, too, am extremely disappoined.  But, I have stopped being optomistic.  I think for me, the "cure"  is to go back to Android devices.
  • Can someone explain me the reason why we were always in overall 2-3 percent market, It can not be just apps. I have so many friends who dislike these big tiles. 
  • Big tiles?
    You can have bland uniform all in a block tiles, just like you would on bore-droid.
    And yes, apps make the difference. No one uses Android for the look of ugly widgets and static icons.
  • "big tiles"?  You know you can resize them, right?   The reason for low market share has always been the lack of marketing and availability.  Generally speaking people who've tried it really like Windows 10 mobile, the problem is most people don't even know it exists.
  • No surprise to anyone, it was clear W10M was dead the moment they separated development despite all the denials from everyone and their dog. And to be honest, this could have been a much smoother transition if they hadnt taken an axe to mobile and instead encouraged UWP to have a solid base to build on creating a good library of apps which would transition to new devices runining the new OS but their actions turned off so many devs they will yet again be faced with the age old problem of no apps. Typical Microsoft, 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
  • I'll reply here because it seems as good a place as any.  The funny thing is that from a technical and business standpoint, it seems like they're doing the right thing now in that, even though the underlying build (kernel?) is staying the same, they're backporting API improvements so that existing Win10M devices should be able to run apps built to later versions of the UWP APIs during the transition.  At the end of the day, that's all that most developers and users should care about - being able to run the latest and greatest apps written to the latest and greatest APIs.  The low level stuff doesn't really matter. (If only they could have done something like this instead of the 8.x to Win10M "reboot") Here's where I'll disagree with Zac somewhat.  This isn't like the superficial modifications to WP 7.8 during the reboot to WP 8.0 where 7.8 gave bits of the new start screen while stuck with the old APIs.  This could be potentially a far better for most Win10M users.  But MS still can't get the messaging done well for either users or developers.  This should be a good thing.  The story should be that Microsoft has a plan, and they've got a path forward.  And "eventually" users of existing handsets will have to upgrade, but during the transition, they'll be able run new apps (which developers are writing to the new APIs), and those apps and associated data will ultimately move forward seamlessly.
  • "The story should be that Microsoft has a plan......" The problem with this is that it is now mid 2017, which is fiscal 2018.  MS should have had a plan 7 years ago.   They didn't, and thus COMPLETELY missed the mobile train.    Now that train is long gone, and it's not coming back.   No one cares about Microsoft's alleged "mobile strategy" at this point.  It's like saying Polaroid now has a digital camera strategy.    
  • Interesting situation. First, thanks Zack for the article, obviously thanks to your contacts too. I'm not sure what the future will bring for me to replace my Lumia 950 XL. Hopefully it will be at least 1 year and a half of API support and I'll keep the phone for that time. I personally don't like these reboots without an upgrade (software) path even for older phones (devices), Windows is the closer in definition to me for endless support. Let's see what 2018 brings to the ecosystem and I still like the platform... even when I'm going to diversify my plafforms a little during this and next year. 
  • Fool me once, shame on you Fool me twice, shame on me
  • Fool me thrice, shame on us?
  • Yeah really!  what would FORTHICE be then?  thats what I did.   DOH....NEVER again...NO MS mobile phone deivce coming my way again.
  • Still going to buy an Elite x3. I expect another price cut soon enough!
  • Whatever happened to the X3 version2 that they had on show?
  • Think it's in a dumpster in Barcelona
  • The v2 of the Elite X3 is probably waiting for the revamped Windows experience on phones, no point to release a new product with a soon to be obsolete OS SKU.
  • I always assumed some intern put something in the wrong display case & it was just a mix-up. Rubino refuted this.
  • It will still be a great device that will run beautifully for the next 2 years easy.
  • Enterprise doesn't care about 2 years. And enterprise is the target for the x3 since forever. HP already knows what's next.
  • There's no point buying it when support is ending for the OS most likely next year
  • For some odd reason I want that phone too.
  • I just bought mine 😊
  • Save the receipt
  • With Microsoft not saying anything officially, how credible are they still for a mobile reboot? Either towards consumers or developers... Don't get me wrong, I switched to android but as an OS I still like W10 better on mobile. I for one won't be the first to buy the next windows powered mobile device... I truly hope they have some awesome tricks up their sleeve but I'm not holding my breath for it.
  • Unless something happens that makes my Lumia 950 XL to not work I won't replace the phone until some point at 2018. I have never had an accident with a phone and I expect to keep it that way, but this is the first time one of their reboots has annoyed me.
  • Yeh, MS needs to confirm their strategy so we know what's coming, or not coming...
  • I sold my Lumia 950xl, and bought a high end android, but mehn, how I want my life back. I just ordered a hp elite x3, and it's fast running out in stores.
  • hasta la vista baby 😜👍
  • Get to da choppa!!!!
  • These people have no idea what they are doing.
  • "We are the knights who say....."
  • People were willing to give Microsoft a try with both WP7 and WP8. I'm not sure who will be willing without massive carrier support, to support or promote the next generation of Windows on phones.
  • History tells us not too many carriers would hold the burden on MS. The only way for MS to attract this UM device with telephony feature is to launch a pre-paid sub-carrier branch themselves... 
  • They couldn't get it right with Skype WI-Fi no way they'll secure arrangements to work as an MVNO.
  • It won't be launched for the consumer market
  • Consumer or enterprise market, the carrier interface is essential....
  • MS is natural born killer. How many time they kill their loyal customer's heart.
  • Btw, besides RS3 and 4 UWP APIs, they should also backport AT LEAST Edge 16 from RS3. No new features are needed, but under the hood optimizations and more modern standards support would be great. I also expected them to port IE10 back in the day for WP7.8, given the browser on desktop was 8 months old at that point, but no dice. They remained stuck with IE9 (the browser on WP7 is close to unuseable today).
  •  But there  was option to skip ahead on mobile. I have chosen it. By the way fix the ability to add comments via app!
  • That was just a bug (as stated on Twitter by Brandon LeBlanc)
  • It's a bug. I got it. We chased it, it was confirmed as a bug. Choosing it does nothing.
  • Ah... sorry... Just submitted it as tip. Hadn't seen it before...
  • Got an ETA for fix release?
  • So does that mean it's been fixed?
  • I really wonder what this new Andromeda thing requires that the current processors are not able to do. And why it can't be omitted on phones So instead they are just retiring the current generation. This is seriously making me angry. It has not been even 2 years since its release and Lumia 950 is already in maintanence mode.
  • The question is how do they know if windows on arm on a telephony device will succeed....They dont....If I was MS i would keep developing windows 10 mobile just incase windows on arm fails. So they can go back to it...
  • WoA isn't for phones. Joe Belfiore confirmed that last week. They have something new coming for phones. Andromeda is the code name. It is mentioned in this article!
  • its the same thing! Andromeda OS = WoA + cShell
  • Interesting thought. Any info/leaks that backs that claim up? Andromeda is very close to Android. Is that just a coincidence?
  • You're an idiot.
    Fat kid in a basement, it's the only thing that makes since.
    Ok, maybe you're autistic, but it doesn't rule out assumption no. 1
  • All the anger! Why would Microsoft call it Andromeda? Maybe Google will call the next version of Android Windoromeda.
  • The anger, as you call it is the response you are here for.
    I feed trolls at my discretion.
    The Andromeda naming is not new, been around awhile.
  • I would buy that just for the name
  • While I support your expectations in some way I also ask you to be critical. Google Pixel is updated for 2 years. And that's all. Now Google probably earns some money on those phones, Microsoft doesn't so it much less tempted. Yes Apple does much better but it has price / cost structure that allows that. But almost all other companies don't. So to say hoping to get better support is a cool thing and I am after that, but thinking that it is normal is not realistic, as more than 80% of the phones don't offer anything better in terms of the software update.
  • That's not outlandish. Google is supporting its phones for 2 years.  The Pixel/XL were released Oct 2016 and they don't guarantee OS updates after Oct 2018.* Other Androids don't fair much better. Doesn't mean the phone quits working. In our case it may mean app support may suffer more than it does on Android. IPhone is a bit different but they eventually don't get OS updates either. From experience the device bogs down before it stops getting official updates, and all the new features don't always work on older phones. Most will likely be getting a new device every two years or so regardless of the OS, and if they don't the phone still works for another year or two. I guess the iritant is that I don't have a clue where MS is going, really. iOS and Android, yea, new OS every year, new hardware to support it, older stuff falls away. If MS said something concrete I wouldn't be considering a Pixel 2 or iPhone 7s/8. As Tracy Chapman says 'Give me one reason to stay here, and I'll turn right back around." *
  • It's just a speculative article based on chinese whispers. Don't get angry. 
  • Lol, always in denial. These are not chinese whispers, Zac has his sources inside MS
  • Thank you Zac for the heads up! I think all of this points were obvious to the community but the backporting of the APIs is a nice surprise!
  • I really hate having to buy a new high end phone every year or two because they keep discontinuing the OS.... Lumia 900, Lumia 920, and now Lumia 950.  I guess I'll start saving money for the next device.  
  • I would at least like to see 3 things on my windows 10 mobile devies: ranging from the 1520 to the lumia 950XL range of phones, for at least another 36 months.
    1. continuation for support of native apps, including map (maps and navigation is still awesome (with free maps!!!) despite its shortcomings) and store.
    2. Be able to factory reset the device and still receive current official released updates with no buts.
    3. Have continuum support the snapping of two apps side by side as a feature minimum, for some basic multitasking productivity.(with that that most keyboard shortcuts work too). As a small extra would like Whatsapp to continue supporting windows 10 mobile for at least another 36 months.
  • I just want my HP Elite X3 to work on Verizon and i will be happy untill the round. 
  • I just heard last week that a version of the Elite x3 with CDMA radios, possibly for use on Verizon, was spotted undergoing FCC certification or something like that.
  • I think it is just bad form to not allow HP Elite X3 and Alcatel Idol 4 owners to beta test Andromeda. If you don't want to make it officially supported then just make the upgrade available to Windows Insiders. 
  • They wont push it to insiders. insider exists for microsoft to gather test telemetry and info on potential bugs before releasing to the public. If they have no plans to release to the public on those chipsets then they wont waste time compiling and releasing builds to only get negative feedback. The processors wont support all the features needed to keep the OS stable. if the new hardware is significantly diffferent enough the beta test you want would actually be counterproductive by allowing unsupported devices.
  • MS just made my mind up.  I will not be coming back to Win Mobile again, regardless of what they do from this point on.  
    I guess I'll be heading over to Android now.  Was trying to hold out, but looks like my fate is sealed. LOL
  • My wife and I will probably be going to android as well. It's so sad. I went from the 900 to the 1520 to the 950. Sick of the reboots and being left behind. I've been saving an upgrade for the rumored surface phone for what feels like 2 years. Probably just going to pick up the Note 8.
  • Here's my litany... Lumia 720, 1020, 1320, 1520, 640xl, 950xl and hp elite x3. I also keep a very good android phone to help me keep my sanity.
  • I went to Android in June it's definitely not that bad at least u get app support there
  • I moved also, loving all the apps
  • Yes. It only takes a week or two to get used to it, then you start to appreciate all the benefits.
    No plans to leave at this point .
  • Because, once again, Microsoft is like a 3 year old child who can't hold an attention span long enough to see anything through, and the rest of us get screwed.
  • I think we have to resign ourselves to the likelihood that if you want a smartphone after the current devices die you will ONLY have iPhone and Android. Microsoft will focus their mobile efforts on moving all their apps & services to them.
  • You should at least red the articles before to comment.
  • Actually he's right. There is no gaurantee of another Windows Phone.  Even Nadella said himself that what comes next will not be a phone, in the traditional sense.
  • Not a  phone in the traditional sense is still a phone. Microsoft will not focus therir mobile efforts on app for other platforms.Not only.You will have a  Windows smartphone. It will be different, so what? Aren't you bored from the current smartphone all the same? The iphone 8 is rumored to have a bunch of innovative features that were on 950 XL 2 years ago.
  • Or we do know that we would have Windows on ARM. Whats app and Skype, will work for me. LTE Full Windows on ARM even if they 32 apps are blocked by Intel, so long as the windows ARM brings a market that will get the developers to build for Win 10 I will be happer with a Win on ARM with apps vs. the current state. Yes WP8 or Win Mobile would have been better but with out apps it will never be big.
  • WoA isn't coming to phones. It is for larger experiences according to Joe Belfiore.
  • There are two WoA OSs: -WoA for legacy snapdragon mobile chips which is the current Win10 mobile (Feature2), and -WoA for S835 and future chips (or Andromeda OS) which will power the upcoming Surface Fone along with cShell.
  • nope
  • Elaborate then!!!
  • WoA is full windows desktop for pc and 2in1. 
    Andromeda is another thing yet.
  • Sounds good to me. It's obviously what Microsoft wants to do is not possible on the current <935 chipset. As a Windows 10 mobile user, you'll see be able to invest in UWP apps and when you buy a new Andromeda phone, you'll just carry on as usual. Andromeda will still have OneDrive, Edge etc etc. You'll log in with your Microsoft account and have all your photos, music, movies - and UWP apps. This should make DEV's a little happier. iOS doesn't support all older iPhones. Android - you are lucky if you even get an upgrade. After a while, the phone will slow down and you'll buy another. Windows 10 is obviously going to be around for a while - whatever screen size you are using.
  • Yeah, suits me fine as well. My 950 is good thru 2018. I never get new devices until a year or so after their release anyway to wait for significant bugs to be fixed.
  • This billion Dollar company doesn't understand that Apps are the key to success in the mobile world. That's why anything they start is going to go down the drain, no matter how revolutionary. RT, WP and now Windows 10S, just wait and see.
  • Apps are very important. You get apps by creating an universally compelling Mobile platform. Microsoft has yet to do that. Apps are just a symptom.
  • You shouldn't be down voted for this. MS can't force app developers to write apps. They need to build a compelling platform. They know that apps are important, You have to have market share to entice developers, and you have to have apps to entice consumers to get the market share. They need something unique and compelling for the consumers to consider switching despite the apps, long enough to grow market share. 
  • agreed Sven, He should not be downvoted....however,  the fanbabies in here, see any negative comment,  they downvote.   The truth hurts them severely   
  • ME really should of developed Redstone 3 for mobile that way they could have used all the existing users to help beta test cshell
  • Zune lasted almost six years. I still have one which would work just fine if Microsoft hadn't abruptly ended support, and screwed all their customers. I had a Band for three days, but returned it to the Microsoft Store when it was obviously about to be trash heaped by Microsoft without regard for their customers who'd purchased one. Band didn't make it two years as a product. I've clawed out existence for my Windows Phone over the several incompatible generations of software and phones. I currently use a Lumia 950 XL which I purchased for less than half the retail price through Amazon. Microsoft updates their software on other phone platforms before it ever eventually gets to its own. It really doesn't take long to recognize the pattern of hype, ambivalence, and discard that comes from Microsoft's new products, and how they treat their customers. I can't imagine jumping on any Hololens bandwagon. Oh no. Any new phone capable Microsoft product is still just rumor and vaporware. Through Microsoft's own fault, I've learned my lesson. I wouldn't touch a new Microsoft product with anyone's ten foot pole; it can burn you from that far away, and not from being hot in a good way.
  • Well nothing new here (except for backport of APIs), is anyone honestly surprised by this? It's just another reboot, I've been through all of them so far why not another! I'm all in for the next device.
  • That makes two of us! Count me in! 
  • I really wish people would stop using the word "reboot" every time the slightest change happens to anything. Whether it's a TV series continuation or a piece of software, this word is overused and I don't think people have a clear idea of what it means anymore.  Anyway, there's no real news to be found here. From the Sega Dreamcast to the current hololens, it's damn clear this is what Microsoft has intended for windows all along: A universal OS that can be used on and for just about anything a hardware manufacturer desires. Now we're seeing windows thermostats and watches... It's very obvious new phones are on the way. It gives software devs the ability to develop software once and use it anywhere. Microsoft is finally close to realizing this vision. I had a customer with Microsoft contacts give me a very cryptic "don't buy a new phone" a few months ago, that there's something absolutely insane in the works. I believe it, if for no other reason than the stuff I see with windows as it is. Though I do appreciate one thing from the article: No FUD, just the facts. I swear this site has been almost exclusively FUD for the past year.
  • It may be overused, but how is this not a reboot? Not a single current device will move to the new OS. That happened from WM 6.5 to WP 7. Again from WP 7 to 8. Some WP 8 devices migrated to 10, so we can cut some slack there. This time we expect an entirely new family of devices with a new, as yet unseen OS. That's a reboot.There may be some saving grace that apps built on W10M may run on this new thing, but that's far from given at this point, which means developers who have expended time and energy on W10M are, once again, disenfranchised and need to start over. Consumers may need to buy their app libraries again. 
  • Not supporting old hardware isn't a "reboot" If that was the case, the current android would be a "reboot" of gingerbread. It isn't. 
  • So not supporting old hardware as in the latest released is not a reboot? Add to that not producing any hardware in two years is not an reboot? So how would you define a reboot then? Hypthecial as we do not know the answer, if the old apps from earlier Windows 10 mobile will not run on the comming version, will that mean it is a reboot? Is there an defined number of types of apps that can't run that is setting the reboot defenition for you? 100% as i all, 50% as only UWP and webwrappers... Please explain your definition of reboot. For me it is enought that they have not released an new phone in two years to be called a reboot even if it was the same phonesOS that they started to release in 2018 on new hardware. It would be a reboot as they would have to reenter the mindshare of the users.
  • the new OS wont run on old hardware as it requires features not available on the old hardware. Due to the "retrenchment" we stopped getting new hardware, if there hadnt been retrenchment there may have been some devices that would upgrade, lets be honest who expects phones developed in 2014-2015 to support features launching in 2018+? There's people on here saying they want their 1520 to support the new OS the 1520 was developed in 2013, that will be 5 years old which in phone terms is obsolete! Android phones released at that time were running Jellybean, as far as i'm aware no Jellybean launched device will get Nougat which is already a year old. iPhone 5 launched at the same time running ios6, iPhone5 will not support ios11 which is the next version due out soon
  • Funny thing, I did a Bing search for Andromeda OS, and all I got was stories about Google and Chrome. So, that was interesting.
  • PLOT TWIST: Remember when we could load Android apps on Windows 10  Mobile??? Microsoft was secretly testing Android OS development on our Windows phone hardware....and Andromeda will be Microsoft!!! /s
  • That would explain the name.
  • That would be the SMART thing to do.  Skin android to look like windows 10.  You have ALL the apps at your fingertips and be done.  Just don't use any samesong stuff in your phone or it will slow down after about a month.
  • Because it's not an OS.
    Windows is the OS.
  • its dead long time ago 
  • Well, now I feel better about switching my Lumia 950 in for an iPhone 7 plus.  Fool me once Microsoft that's your fault.  Fool me twice...  Oh wait, I'm not going to let you fool me twice.  As my computers and Surface Pro need to be replaced, I'll move to Apple.  Tired of waiting on the vaporware from MS.
  • I'm seriously thinking of doing the same with my PCs/laptops, already own an older MacBook Pro and it has been stellar. On mobile, we've switched to Android some time ago and was the best move ever, for me.
  • I kind of thought this was already established, a few new details & a nice roundup of where the platform is headed though.
  • Well it looks like even before this article, my wife decided to jump ship and I got her an iPhone 7 Plus.  My daughter and I stuill have our Lumia 950's for the time being.  My daughter actually loves her 950.  We both know our time will be coming soon.  We will hold on as long as possible.  Either way, we will most likely keep them as portable media players a-la Zune style once we switch.  It's just too complicated to add music and movies to iPhone.  Not really complicated, just too time consuming.  Also, I actually am a huge user of myTube for videos and finding old music mixes.  Everyone has 2 choices, hold onto your lumia devices for as long as you can, or jump ship.
  • Good article and thanks for the insight. MS can only reboot so many times, they forget that when a user commits to a year mobile contact they are going all in on an expensive device. For MS a mobile is a tool but for most of us its an invaluable source of information, communications and entertainment and you come committed to the ecosystem. Shame, had so much potential and I blame the marketing teams and not dev teams. One question though, it's more than a coincidence that BOTH Microsoft and Google have MOBILE projects named Andromeda? Can you see a Windows device allowing Android apps?
  • I don't get why people are getting mad about Microsoft "rebooting" their mobile efforts... Going from Windows 10 Mobile to this Andromida OS will have no effect on the end user in terms of apps and experience because of UWP.
    The only thing people will have to do is buy a new phone and seeing as it's almost been 3 years since the 950 most people will be looking at an upgrade anyway.
    If you look at Apple people don't really complain when there 4 year iPhone doesn't get the latest iOS update and with Android a very small percentage of phones get the latest update as well forcing users to upgrade anyway.
    It might be a different way of doing something but what Microsoft does is just the same as Apple and Google and their customers don't complain about being left behind and jumping ship they just buy the latest phone they offer.
  • It'd be one thing if we had a fully functional phone that performed similarly to iOS and Android, but we don't. Yes many can get by without the extras but to think they are on the same level is fooling one’s self. Yup, just buy a new phone and wait for MS to decide another retrenchment, or change of direction is necessary stunting growth once again. In no way, shape or form does Microsoft do it the same, if that were the case we wouldn’t be crying about the app-gap nor would it be in its present state.
  • "If you look at Apple people don't really complain when there 4 year iPhone doesn't get the latest iOS update" That is because Apple puts out two new phones every year...Microsoft does not do that...
    So, apple strategy is if you want your four year old iphone to have the latest OS, buy our latest iphone! Basically, put up or shut up!
  • The thing is that the 4 year old iphone DOES get the latest OS.   the iphone 5 has IOS10.   The iphone 5 is 5 generations old.  So....theres goes that thought.   Apple supports their devices better than ANY other company regardless of brand.  Google even ditches software support on pixel and nexus much faster than apple.
  • A good piece, thank you. This restores my faith that there will be a future for me and a windows mobile device in coming years whilst my 1520 will still be able to meet my current needs.
  • BY the time this all happens we al will be begging for new phones anyway, so whats the fuss about. 
  • That would be early 2019....a long time from now!
  • Wow well this made me feel way better about switching back to Android last month. It's been so nice to just be able to get any app I see now. And the LG G5 is a super solid phone especially for $200. Thank god for double tap to wake on this thing too.
  • Guess I was wrong about Windows 10 Mobile getting Redstone 3!
  • Can we have an article on usefulness of these phones? I have my Lumia 920 sittings around, but it's near useless at this point. Our 735 still works because I have miracast so use it as a remote of sorts for the TV (though the Apple TV has taken over that role). Not sure what else because these things have zero resale value. Security camera? Is there a reliable app for that? Wouldn't they over heat? Just not sure what to do with em.
  • load a bunch of mp3 and videos ripped from youtube and watch them on the airplane, or on the train ride to work.
  • This article also indirectly saying that we won't see the MS ultra mobile device with cellular feature (i, e, surface fone) until 2019! Meanwhile MS will be busy improving the windows on arm on tablets and laptops during 2018...
  • They can "backport" all they want. Developers ar hardly writing UWP's for Windows anyway.
  • I have a sneaky suspicion we'll be seeing a loss of support long before MSFT drops the ball. Either the Dev’s will stop updating their apps or pull them all together, a losing situation no matter which way you look at it. Anyone ready for a bit of nostalgia, a phone resigned to nothing but the basics LOL… Now only if this were a lottery, many of us would freakin be rich ;)
  • Reboot number 4. The pattern is.; Microsoft introduce immature mobile OS with new requirements for apps and after 18 months when the platform is bug fixed they ditch it for an OS that won't run on existing hardware. Microsoft then wonder why they can't get traction in mobile. So the next reboot. Each one leaving a dying apps infrastructure in its wake. As the audience for the next reboot is reduced the developers have less incentive. UWP on PCs is an endless set of web wrappers and centennial bridge apps that won't work on mobile anyway so I suspect there will be little lost in the Store. The big loss will be Microsoft first party apps.
  • I don't think I will buy any ms product for first iteration. I will wait and watch for good 3yrs to decide whether to invest in platform..its just useless display dock and useless L950xl..
  • Time for the last people holding on to leave after this news. I'm done with windows on phones until they get their **** together and I've been using them since the crippled HTC touch pro 1 on Verizon Glad I left in June. From here on out everybody is wasting their time
  • More info regarding Andromeda here:
  • That article is wrong. That is not what Andromeda is.
  • Do you have a link that correctly describes what Andromeda is?
  • gonna buy a galaxy s8 active and load it up on ms apps... closest thing to a windows dream phone i can get right now.
  • I'm all for this approach because I'm getting tired of "Groove Music" and the store.  We all know that the Massively Screwed-up dys-Functional Team (MSFT) has to rename their music service and make a new app store every couple of years.  It has been a while since that happened. What do we think the new music service will be called?  I'm voting for Microsoft Muzak!
  • Reboot... LOL
  • I don't understand the consternation over this. Unless you've bought an Idol (like me) or an Elite, most of you are running phones that are nearly two years old or much older. This update will carry them on for another year. You really expect you could run a new, fantastic OS on a three to five year old phone? If MS comes up with a new device that I like when I need one, I'll buy. If not, I'll go back to a flip phone. :-)
  • "Yes, existing Windows phones will not be getting CShell. Microsoft is saving that for its next attempt at phones." IDK how anyone can't take Microsoft seriously when it comes to mobile. I read that statement and literally LOL.
  • Windows Phone, the endless reboot.   there must be some condition causing them to do the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.  
  • Sorry for what looks like link spamming, but I think my chart in might also help here - Zac's done a great job with words, but see also my diagram, if you're more into pictures!! 8-)
  • Basically, they're doing extra API work because they don't want to release a new phone or truly support the devices they've forced us to live with beyond a standard phone's life's such a convoluted way to pretend like they're not alienating their customers.
  • Windows phone is dead and that is what it means.   Yet reading the comments some still just can not take the hint.
  • We knew this was coming, but it's disappointing none-the-less. I have an iPhone for work, and HATE it, but actually have my banking/credit apps on there as there is no native app and the websites all suck trying to use. If I had to move, it would probably be to Android, but I really don't want to. The issue at hand.... if MS reboots windows mobile again, devs would have even less reasons to develope for the OS, unless MS goes all out for the OS, not like they have been since Windows appeared on mobile.
  • Sad news, but also good news. We were all hoping MS wouldn't surrender mobile...and now they're working on a shiny new OS. Let's just hope they don't drop the ball again and aggressively compete against iPhone/Android this time.
  • Hard to believe there are still people hanging on to "Windows Mobile". I bailed a few months ago.   Sold my 950XL, 1520 and Icon.   Moved on to Apple.  iPhone 6s Plus, new iPad pros.    iOS runs fine, on tablets and phones.  BTW, I also have a 5 year old iPhone 5, it is running the current iOS.   Tell me where 5 year old Windows phones are. Its 2017, folks.   A company that is STILL trying to come up with a "mobile strategy " is a company that is clueless.  
  • What r u doing here commenting then?!
  • Laughing at the fools still hanging on.   What business is it of yours?   
  • By now I'm almost certain that Microsoft or at least the mobile part is being run by idiots who have absolutely no clue about building an ecosystem, but are experts in ******* people off and making them buy competitors products. Heck if I were in charge in Apple or Google I would seriously consider giving them bonuses as as thank you for making android and ios look great xD 
  • MS isn't bothered about mobile. They want to simplify by getting everyone to buy their forthcoming LTE mobile pocket Pc format, but soon there'll only be 10 people in the world who still believe in MS on any mobile device.
  • Does anyone from MS READ this site (or any of the many other Windows-based sites? Thought not!
  • More and more developers are leaving the windows mobile development platform because MS constantly changes its eco systems. No apps for Windows mobile means windows phone is dead. MS doesn't have an firm idea what to do with Mobile platform.  Recently I bought a lumia 950 to develop some mobile apps. Now you are saying it won't work within two years I mean on new windows mobile devices. It is a joke from MS?  
  • No it won't receive updates in two years after its launch, whcih should be next year. However, UWP has nothing to do with lifetime of your particular device.
  • You are so boring. Tell us more about the next generation of devices and stop writing same old stories over and over again.  For example, this is interesting:
  • An article in 2017 about "leaks" from 2015?! None of that made sense.
  • Thank you very much Zac, for this article. I'm not happy to read it, but I want to know about it. Its a bit frustrating, too. I've put my first UWP app into the Store. Made it available for PC, mobile and HoloLens, because I was hoping that it will continue to be supported on Windows 10 Mobile. Oh well. I'll use it for now, until it goes away.
  • OHHHHHH its mean we have to still wait one more year for new hardware and OS ?????? Really this is insane. Microsoft should be wake up from the sleep. Time & People dnt wait for such type of OS whose development takes more than 4 years. this sill discourage developers & fans too.  Apple approching to IOS 11 & Android ready for O and microsoft still need more time. Actually problem is that no one from microsoft really interested in developing mobile due to 1% market share. They will spend money to making there logo. Whatever who cares next year market share will drop from 1% to 0.001%. This will effect on its whole ecosystem. as now a days people are moving towards IOS as they getting the ecosystem better than any other OS.
  • I'm so torn on this news. ON THE ONE HAND: As one who is not currently on a Windows Phone, and wasn't planning to be on one until AFTER the [so-called] "Surface Phone" launches, this doesn't adversely effect me directly at all. And indeed, cold as it may sound of me to say, I'm sure, for the best long-term chances for the platform as a broad whole across all devices, the platform that at the very least ideologically I prize above all others, perhaps the very best thing is to move the old, failed Windows 10 Mobile platform out of the way, cast it aside, like a vinedresser prunes off bad branches so that the good branches will be healthier. The hardware of the Surface ultra-mobile and the software of "Andromeda" Windows OS with C shell and full Windows on ARM all just seems so amazingly, exponentially better than what is currently being offered on the standalone Win10M sku that it deserves to replace it. It will finally be the realization of the Windows dream of a truly unified platform, the vision that I cherish so much more than Apple's "Siloed City" approach, or the convoluted "Chromedroid" approach that Google is baffling us all with, and by all appearances, still even trying to figure out for themselves. For the health of the Windows platform as a whole, and its goal of becoming one beautiful monolithic thing, there's a small part of me that says "good riddance" to Win10M. Especially considering a lot of what was good about Win10M and earlier will likely find itself reflected in some fashion in the new iteration as well. Certainly the beloved live tiles will return, and likely even be enhanced. It sounds like "Surface" and "Andromeda" will be the "Windows 10 Phone" we've all been waiting for, though I'm sure that they will not be calling it a "phone", and may even find some clever technicality for going so far as to say it's "not a phone". Although, even though I'm positive it'll be so much MORE than a "phone", it will certainly be no LESS than one. ON THE OTHER HAND: Though I am SUPER glad to hear that Windows 10 Mobile isn't just being dropped cold turkey, but limped along with basic (but still meaningful) support through at least 2018, and maybe longer if Surface isn't ready in time, this is still YET ANOTHER failed attempt at Windows on Mobile, just further dragging the platform's mobile reputation through the mud, saying "thanks for playing" to the most faithful of their adherents YET AGAIN! How many more times will their most faithful, and passionate need to be crapped on again before they get it right? Now this part is me just kinda "thinking out loud, but I kinda wonder if this whole insider program hasn't been a tremendous mistake. It has been fun - definitely that, and has given us all a feeling of being involved in [quasi] democratized OS creation. But it has also seen half baked, partially broken, incomplete thoughts come out, creating tremendous anti-climax at a time that was supposed to hail the revolution and rebirth, and we ended up getting those kind of frankenthings instead. Now market share was strong enough on the PC side, and support was robust enough that Windows 10 desktop has gone on to become simply amazing! It's the first time in all of history that I've been a bigger fan of Windows than of Mac..... .....but the same could not be said for Mobile....... And as a result, mobile usage has dropped to Blackberry levels, the public laughs and mocks, and even the faithful are drifting off for "greener" pastures (or to "orchards"). Win10M was an amazing thought, and it has improved in terms of stability and speed....but with a half-baked continuum, dramatically limited app supply, [mostly] uninspiring (or under-inspiring) phones, very little third party support and like, virtually absolute zero marketing behind it, there wasn't enough success to justify the resources or interest required to do for it what happened for desktop. And even if there had been, might it have all been too late by then as the usage plummeted to less than 1% almost as quickly as the stock market crashed in 1929? I'll say it again: in theory, in terms of abstract potential, Win10M was AMAZING! In terms of abstract theory, there has not been before or since a COOLER IDEA than Win10M in the mobile space. And in some ways, even in its miserable condition, it is still even now better than Android or iOS. But what maybe should've happened instead of what did happen was the thing should've possibly been more fully developed internally behind very tightly closed doors before being announced, the app support situation should've been figured out, and then when it did launch, it should've really been ready and complete, with a full marketing barrage behind it! In other words, this upcoming "Surface Phone" should've been the ORIGINAL Windows 10 phone, and Redstone 2 or even 3 should've been the original Win10 desktop.....and THEN the insider program should've kicked off and WaaS been implemented. In short, I'm really starting to wonder if the past two or three years of Microsoft development history shouldn't have happened in private and in secret, rather than out of the open. Then at the moment of "here's our rebirth", it would've been glorious, and would've meant something....and gone the completely different direction than it had. So, in summary, this news simultaneously makes me very excited, and even more optimistic for the long term prospects of the dream of Windows in your pocket than I had been previously - and yet, angrier than I had been for all the mistakes and failures and lapses of judgment and tactical blunders that have got us here as well as sorrier than I had been for all the faithful who have invested so much of themselves into the platform only to find themselves at yet another dead end. And, while I really do have genuine hope for the future of the platform, even if I am right, and am justified in that belief, and it will be a glorious future, think of how much higher and steeper a hill they have to climb now, a hurdle they have to overcome now than had they just taken it slower and done it right from the get go. I truly hope that at my 2019 phone upgrade, I'll be able to do my best Legend of Zelda "get item" animation impersonation as I do my best LoZ "get item" jingle vocal rendering as the sun glints off the shiny rectangle I hold aloft which reads "Surface". But how much cooler would it have been if I could do so this fall in 2017 instead, or hell, could've done it in 2015? Instead, 2015 was an iPhone 6+ replacing a Galaxy Note 3, and 2017 will either be a [so-called] "iPhone8", or a [so-called] "Pixel 2 XL"..... ......pity......... I mean, don't get me wrong! Whichever way I go this fall, I know I'll be getting a great phone! Those will both be terrific handsets, and it'll probably be a very tough decision for me to pick the one or the other.......But it could've been a Windows phone instead, and would have been even greater! Not this year, though......not this year. :-( Cheers!
  • Sorry Dude, I just cant agree to these comments labelling Win 10 mobile as half baked or not ready. Yes it was not perfect but what is perfect. Is iOS perfect? is Android perfect? don't they come up with bug fixes? dont they come up with performance improving upgrades? Two things killed the windows 10 mobile: Lack of app support, and no marketing. Unfortunately it is too late in the day now and no one should actually think of owning the surface mobile. If and when it comes, it will be a niche device with limited usage due to the app situation and even limited sales volumes that the 'current' windows phone sales. So it is not hard to predict its future.
  • I suppose you and I will just have to wait for the verdict from the courts of hindsight on whether Surface is a success, or a flop (or an eternally niche thing - which is still an improvement over where we are now, and likely good enough to still cause me to make the jump). You are pessimistic. I am [guardedly] optimistic. I am largely on-board with the "Jason Ward school of thought" regarding the platform. But ultimately, your "crystal ball" doesn't work any better than mine. So I suppose we'll leave this one for the passage of time to decide. :-) I suppose I will ask this question, though, and PLEASE don't take my tone as snarky here, as that's not my intently all: I'm still hanging around these comments sections, spending a ton of time writing these long (probably too long) comments about Windows, Windows Mobile, Surface Phone and all of that. Why would I do that? Why would I invest so much of my time, and life, and energy into doing that (it takes FOREVER to type these things out on an iPhone keypad, btw)? Because I still believe in the platform. Because I don't [yet] see it as a lost cause. Because I still see a future for it, and even, dare I say it, a glimmer of glorious hope for it. If I didn't feel this way, do you know what I'd do? I'd go away. I'd move on with my life, and invest my energies elsewhere. To me, it seems really silly to hang around in the comments section of a terminally ill platform just to ring the death knell. THAT seems to be the truest waste of life. So, if the platform is as much of a genuine, and irretrievably lost cause as you seem to think it is.....what are you still doing here? Again, that's not intended as a snark, my friend. I'm just genuinely curious as to the mindset that drives such an action. Would you be willing to illuminate me some? Thanks!
  • I guess it's time to say good bye to Windows,  I'm pretty sure Microsoft is not serious at all to get into mobile market. So while Microsoft plays with CShell, others actually have an ecosystem that I can work with. Windows is dead.
  • @Zac: when you summarised the article using 'in short' you should have actually noted that "in short, MS acknowledges that it flunked in the mobile space and hence will continue to work on PC OS alone. It will make it run on ARM based devices, but has no plans for mobile as such. Anyone dreaming of owning a windows phone should actually wake up now"
  • Sad. I'm actually thinking of "pulling the trigger" on an HP Elite x3. If only Microsoft would make a way for us to run Android apps on it...
  • Why would we want to run Android apps on a Windows Mobile phone when you can buy an android device for that?
  • The newest Lumias - 950/XL, Idol 4s, Elite, are going to get the updates until the spring 2019 that's for sure and then it will be the old phones anyway. In the meantime, Surface phone  will arrive so I really don't understand the author, and  some folks here. You are so paranoid belivers of the rumours.
  • About 4 year of support for the x50s!  That is a heck of alot more any Android or iOS device that came out in 2015 could ask for.  Yes this is good and bad, but your Lumia x50 device is not going to have SW obselecence, only HW...
  • I agree. But I also like to see my L950 operates at status quote...And not its OS or apps degrading until the MS support stops. For example, the Windows Central mobile app (PC app also) forbids posting comments!!! Is this intentional?! I have not heard anything from WC staff on the cause and plan of correction on this issue!
  • iOS 11 supports the iPhone 5s which came out in 2013.  That's 4 years of support and counting..... if iOS 12 eliminates the 5s, then it still would have been supported for 5 years.
  • So much for buying an HP X3 and rejoining the Windows Family. They have missed the mark so many times. 900, 920, 930, 1520, 640XL, 7 Plus, LG G6, new Android Phone. Thanks for the bad memories Microsoft.
  • Andromeda has been found in the windows current api's as _hardware_ not simply an sku. (two sets of gyros and a hinge value). It's listed in the cshell code also, next to all the existsing SKUs. I'm not convinced this info is 100% correct. Sounds like chinese whispers of what the actual goals are. 
    In short, I think you are speaking with a lot of confidence about something that should instead be prefaced entirely "well IDK if this is true, but this is what I heard". I mean you could be right, but generally speaking such insider insights from this website have been more "in the ballpark" than "bang on". Literally a few months ago you personally were busy telling us andromeda was an element of cshell. I'm not going to treat this website vageuries of he said, she said, as actual news. 
  • This text says " Andromeda OS … modular enough to run on any form factor. ", which should exactly imply that Andromeda is not a SKU but a new version of Windows that will run on any device, just some modules might be disabled by default... I would more say that Microsoft's current strategy isn't stable for more than a few months, so whatever one source says it might not end up like that. Actually even what they publicly said frequently didn't end up like that.
  • If you have a Windows 10 mobile phone, don't feel bad about being moved to feature2 and losing support for your apps in the future. By the time the next phone is announced in 2018, then on sale in 2019, and the bugs worked out by 2020, there won't be any apps left in the store anyway. Sure you can run Photoshop all laggy with a stylus if you want. But have fun trying to use your phone as an actual smartphone with Android Auto/Apple Carplay, Yelp, Waze, NFC payments, Facebook, Facebook Messenger, etc.
  • Some news is better than no news.... This sort of sounds like an official death noticed thought...until ARM for WP happens....
  • Maybe, just maybe after this article, fanboys will stop with their pathetic delusions! Win10mo is DEAD!! nothing more than another WP7.8, while MS prepares, maybe, for another reboot. The question is, besides a few fans, who will ever trust MS again after this pathetic fiasco? I for one won't buy into their platform again..been burned too many times with their never ending reboots.
  • I'd love to see horizontal tiles when repositioning the phone into the horizontal position
  • You will see landscape mode in next big update maybe a cshell for windows on arm.
  • You are assuming they will still have Tiles. I douby they will go in that direction again. It hasn't worked yet.
  • Like a lot of people I have suspected that Microsoft wanted to make a Pocket PC/Smartphone device since developers did not seem to want to make apps for windows 10 smartphones. Intel used to sell the CPU's that could do this but stopped selling them so Microsoft has  made the Windows on ARMS CPU emulation software to make cheap small PC's. Desktop PC programs are hard to work with on smart phones so Windows 10 on ARMS CPU devices will be on 7 to 8 inch or larger Tablets and Laptop PC's.  Microsft could make a 7 inch smart phone Tablet Hybrid using Windows 10 on ARMS CPU's but Now with this NEW Andromeda Operating system Windows can be on screen size devices  6 inches to 72 inches and have 4G / 5G LTE and  Voice Cell phone  capability. Now heres the problem will developers make Apps for Andromeda OS smart phones. The smartest and best thing Microsoft can do is make sure Andromeda  Windows smart phones run ALL UWP Windows 10 stroe apps in essence become Pocket PC's. and have millions of Apps and PC programs to use. The question is will People buy them
  • Personally, none of this matters to me. I use about 5 basic apps, Outlook and Edge. I was happy with my phone as it was kn the first day of Windows 1- and I phan to keep it until it falls apart through use. Then I will simply buy whatever is the current windows phone. These updates largely don't interest me, I'm more interested in Windows clean interface and ease if use.
  • "App support won't last forever" ... err ... what app support?
  • What passes for "news" these days, smh. 
  • I just hope they come with, even if expensive, device that will be sooner than most of apps go down, and will be available worldwide. I also wish they would open store here in my country, even if online only. I miss that a lot.
  • Nothing is next. I am done with the OS, as many others, I believe. I supported W10M for more than one year, not caring about the bugs in the insider builds, cause I knew what I was doing. Not caring about the low specs of the phone or the apps taking 10 years and 2 or 3 attempts to launch (Facebook, Instagram, etc). Since some apps started crashing I tried to reinstall them, but no. Windows store simply does not want to install the same apps I had a day ago. I am done. Switching to Android.
  • I'm feeling sad, I love my Lumia 950 and W10M. But if it is for better, I would keep up with MS and would get one of the new future devices as soon as MS release them, sonner the better as I'm getting impacient already.
  • Now windows on mobile is a beta project to test new features there is nothing like an app support and a lot of developers on board. hopefully we will see apps in next generation of windows on mobile like surface phone or cshell.
    as we have seen before the lifecycle of windows phone is pretty short its like a dead horse since the initial launch MS had learned the lesson from it. Now they will prefer a different path not as followed by the two leaders. The future devices are suppose to be expensive.
  • Ok, now it's more clear and this is a good news. One thing is clear, we won't see a new device until late 2018. And our current devices (HP Elite X3, 950 XL and Alcatel) keep going for mobile feature2 updates. Approximately every week we get new bug fixes and this is something very important. And when new devices come, we'll see of course new OS (Andromeda). So from now on Microsoft should give their attention to windows store. App situation is very very important.
  • WHATEVER they do....they need to visibly and financially COMMIT everything to it, not some half arsed 'lets see what happens' attitude.  Throw serious money, noise, branding, marketing at this, make people BELIEVE its viable.  If they dont believe it themselves, how on earth can they expect anyone else to.
  • First they need a platform that is viable. Marketing is only effective if you have a good product.
  • So, I've relegated my Lumia 950 to being a wifi connected device that I use as a computer with my TV and a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard in my great room. I've switched over to an iPhone 7 plus and am happy to be back in a world where I can get all the apps I've been missing for everything from banking to interacting with my vehicles. I stuck with the Lumia because of Continuum but finally understood that MS has decided to develop software that will run on any other environment.  I'm happily using Office on my iPhone and expect that sooner rather than later I'll have Continuum there as well.  Of course when that happens I can put the Lumia back in the old devices drawer. I was just refusing to see the obvious path MS was on before.  Leave loyal customers like me in the dark, hoping that they could make a Windows phone a reality.  Thanks MS.  I get it now.
  • So where does this actually leave Windows on phone, as Microsoft has said that c-shell will not be on phones, "Threre is windows mobile for that"
  • "Redstone 5"? Was that a typo, or is the Redstone branch going to be continued even further?
  • The main support center for Windows Phone is now Ebay. It is still is a functional platform for most people but let's not pretend that Microsoft has a viable plan for mobile.
  • shame they haven't catered for their past users on windows 7, 8 or 8.1 and shame they didn't support my Lumia 930 with creater update. I really don't hold any faith in microsoft at this stage. Not forgetting one drive storage removal situation. or the fact my Lumia 930 got 15 gig free space and my s7 edge gets 100 gig. no gestures beta brought to windows 10 mobile and many apps like ebay, paypal and myfitness pal leaving windows store. Do you really think people will invest in any mobile phone platform that microsoft invest in in the future due to all these continued mistakes and lack of customer support. Hell desktop still tries to restic my usage on edge with new tabs unable to open to my home page, and that's if it doesn't crash and stop working in minutes, like it has done so many times. Microsft reboot things while removing features you had and sometimes they bring them back year or 2 later and sometimes they don't. that's been their patern on mobile and on things like edge and skype too. The new skype is a clear sign that microsoft no longer have a clue.
  • I wish Microsoft would give some info on their next Windows mobile device.  My old Windows Phone is dying and I'm holding out as long as I can as I want to keep a Windows Phone but how long do I wait...?  How long can I wait...???
  • If it is true, then it sounds great. At least there is a path to the future... Guys here, be serious, CShell alone is not and never will be the great Redeemer and Salvation. What we need need is well functioning, thought through interface well connected to the operating system's guts. It is not a concept which can be created by an artist alone and let us believe in it. 
  • Sounds like a reasonable business approach. I'm also okay with it. I'll use my Lumia 650 as long as I can. Then I'll choose either an android or the next Microsoft mobile andromeda surface device if it exists :)
  • More planned obsolescence...
  • Hip Hip Horray  No more pesky Updates...I'll just wait for my two 950XL's to die and then get a Samsung Note 9 or 11 or whatever  (I will skip 10 though, after this)
  • And who is going to buy the new devices? Who is going to trust MS and spend money .... again?
  •  it's sad news. But will wait to see what will be new...i hope i won't be disappointed...i can't stand android nor ios!
  • Having gotten tired with MS's ineptitude, and having to use my phone for work , I had to jump ship to iOS.  Incredibly clunky OS, boring design language, but there's no argueing that my iPhone isn't more useful than my L950XL.  Too bad, but it's a fact, the lack of App support for WM makes it of limited use. I wish it wasn't so.
  • So the World punched Unbuntu in the face, Blackberry in the mouth and Windows in the head what? Three Times now? But just wait, we are gonna blow you away next time. Yeah. Sure you will. Thats rich Microsoft.
  • At the end of the day for all their "forward thinking", how has Microssoft changed anything in the last 3-5 Years? People always blast Apple for lack of imagination. Really? Microsoft/Windows 10/ Windows Mobile/X Box couldnt even get their **** together in the same building. At least on Apple or Android I see some cohesion. Windows Mobile is the biggest collection of scattered afterthought ever seen. Nobody can see the path forward because they have their heads in the clouds. The more I read this the angrier I get. So disappointed with the way this has all been handled since day one right up to now. When is Satya actually gonna step up and address the Mibile Issue???
  • "Come on Windows 10 Mobile. Lets get you to hospice." Microsoft.
  • Microsoft clowns! So many attempts, so many reboots, so many broken promises. I fail to see how anyone with a sane mind could buy a new phone made by Microsoft / powered by Windows, unless the Nutella team come up with something truly revolutionary.
  • All they needed to do was be straight with us as users. All the shenanigans of the past keeping us in the dark on what the future is for WM10 etc just left a bad taste in one's mouth. And to say they only knew the direction they were going a couple months ago would be incorrect as this wouldn't been on the timeline on Microsoft's walls for quite a while. Oh well... looking forward to the new reboot.
  • Have to laugh at some of the comments below. I'm amazed that some people still aren't picking up on this, since Microsoft have said for years that their aim is for a pocketable device - call it a smartphone or whatever you want - that will run full blown Windows. W10M was always going to be a temporary fix, a stepping stone to it's evolution that would reach that plateau of One Windows, and yet we've had all this "Windows Phone is dead" nonsense going on for at least two years that I can think of. On most other forums they still don't get it. I prefer to think of it as Windows 10 being superseded, and it was never likely to run on the current devices which remember, by the time it arrives will probably be at least three years old anyway. It was clear a long time ago that Microsoft stopped producing new Windows phones because you need a gap between the old platform or OS if you prefer, and the new version. Otherwise it would have been too confusing for new customers in particular who would be unfamiliar with Windows phones, and on those customer buying current devices. I think the real problem has been the gap between old and new with most people seemingly unaware (or at best, unable to work out) what was going on. Yet it was also only right to allow companies like HP and Alcatel to clear their shelves and for people who bought those phones to have at least a year or two before they need to upgrade them. (I'm still toying with the idea of picking one up lest my 950 doesn't last the course). Perhaps the only mistake was to not let it appear to evolve naturally, maybe announcing the "new" Windows mobile OS along the way to kill all the adverse speculation (they may still do that at some point of course), and retaining the name Windows 10 Mobile, at least until the transition was complete. They could have easily dropped the "Mobile" bit later. Overall though I'm excited about the new devices, and if they give me only half the enjoyment I've had from my 950 and my Surface Pro 4 it will still be well worth the wait.
  • From a technological point of view I can agree to what happens, and is forking W10M a logical decision to give Microsoft a free hand on it's new attempt. I really hope this can become a more definite move for Microsoft incorporating mobile devices in their software landscape. My respose is not mend as criticising on the technological vision of Microsoft. In the long run I expect that to be more sound and futureproof than those of the competition (Apple, Google). Not criticizing it's vision, I want to criticize the path Microsoft follows towards that vision. The responses you refer to can be taken as representative for the userbase of Wx mobile. While Microsoft is hunting down it's technological vision the average user is not catching up anymore. This is worrying. History knows enough technological flawless products that were not able to find customers. The question I want to ask is why is that vision is needed already in a few years time? Is the competition making that move already, is the userbase asking for this functionality? So besides to justify the vision itself, it's execution and timing can be looked at independently. Just as an hypothesis, what if Microsoft would have proceeded with WP8.1 and W10M independent and disconnected from W8 and W10. When reading user comments WP8.1 is still mentioned as being more agile with respect to the current W10M. Microsoft would have had the effort of maintaining a mobile and static OS, but not having the effort of the struggle to bent those two towards each other, and probably not so much WP8.1 phone would have gone over the edge in the transition. Allright, no continuum yet, but be honest, who cares at this moment? The added continuity of such an approch would have helped to gain trust from userbase and from the developer community, probably the install base high ground of W8.1-end period would have slowly extrended. Microsoft could have taken more time to think things through about the merge of the mobile and static OS. And she would have had that time. With her vision she is so well ahead of the competition she could taken that luxury. Besides this there would have been more time and capacity to built further on that mobile OS. I am not talking about app's, but just making the mobile OS more mature. For a mobile user these needs are much more concrete than a OS merge. WP8.1 and W10M have a lot to love, but there is much still room for improvement in the core OS as well. So my difficulty is that I cannot think of a strategic argument why Microsoft tries to do everything in such a hurry, end 2018 I understand, why not 2023? Is that too late? I doubt it. Built some beautiful W10M phones and give the market some long term certainty. Maybe that would have prevented the end of the modest amount of apps the platform has. Maybe UWP is an argument for the hurry. But does that factor has so much weight then? The callenge is more to get developers hooked on making new and more UWP apps than that the exisiting bunch of apps is easily maintained.  Of course it is easy to look back and to say we would have done this and that, I know. Damage has already been done with the swap from WP8.1 to W10M. Maybe Microsoft will now have it's new insights as well, I presume. So despite of this news I hope Microsoft focuses in the post 2018 period more on offering continuity than on technical advancement, because of her current advancenments she can permit herself that. The market is asking for a platform that offers continuity. I hope Microsoft will never risk continuity in favor of technical advancement again. I hope Microsoft at least has learned that lesson.
  • Yippee I'm off to Andromeda. This is only bad news for those people that expect their smartphone to last more that 2 - 3 years. Let's face it my HP Elite X3 is already a year old and by the time MS stop supporting this version on W10 it will be time for a replacement anyway and the next generation of Windows phones will be available. Bring it on.
  • Now I really feel like a kid that has been abandoned! It's worse now that Mom and dad are talking about divorce in front of and not caring about how I am feeling! Paying $500 out of pocket for a dud!
  • It's not a dud. You still have 1.5 years of bug fixing support with security updates.
    Top end Android phones are lucky to get 2 major updates and are late with security fixes.
  • You know, I skip through alot of W10M reports now, just saying. But I won't stop using my L950XL until the next MS mobile platform supercedes it; not Android or Apple.
  • i love my 950XL and all it has and does. given the few number of people using the products, i would love MS to update our phones to new systems, if hardware-compatible. We seem to be so few users now that the loss to MS would be negligeable... i must say that i will buy the next solution anyway, but.... The new solution will bring such improvements that everybody will be happy to buy. even with a brilliant 950XL in 2019, it is today a long time for a phone.
  • Folks Microsoft's Mobile Devices Strength is in it's Surface product which are Not smart phones.   I am not sure we will ever see Microsoft make a smartphone again but instead  will make a Super "Mini Tablet / Smart phone Hybrid" which will be an intersting device that will sell well enough for Microsoft to make money off it. I would buy one but realize most people would want a smaller device to carry around.
  • And the entire Surface Portfolio numbers reveal what strength exactly? Its not like Surface has set the World on fire either. Same strategy as they did with Kinect. Nothing they have done lately is game changing or evolutionary. Oh wait, I forgot, they figured out how to cram more advertising onto my XBox with fluent design. Good wirk people, take the day off.
  • Surface for Microsoft is a massive profit making brand, they seemed to have stalled a little this year and the constant delay in Europe of the Surface Studio also
  • What if the next Surface ultra portable PC is just called.. "Surface"?
  •  This will be yet another failed effort, as if history proves anything with Microsoft and any kind of mobile effort, next year we will get what is effectively an alpha build and then for the next few years Microsoft will scramble to get up to par with mobile OSes of 5 years ago. I'm a long time Microsoft fan, but the repeated reboots and failed attempts in mobile will require me to see it to believe it.
  • What’s next for existing Windows Phones = Android Phone (iPhone ☹ ).  “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, shame on both of us.”.  The article forgot to mention only a few models of Windows Phone are still getting new updates, others too bad, too sad.
  • RIP W 10 M What is to say that we won't get left out in the cold like WP 8.1 users were? At least we have better apps.
  • Microsoft doesn't know what they want. windows 8, 8,1 and 10 all are unwanted children of Microsoft :)
  • Not a surprise.  Fortunately for me, I don't expect handsets to last years. That is just a function of how life works in my household. We replace so many handsets due to breakage and wear and tear it really is insane.  It got to the point with iPhones that I said enough is enough.  Thats when I switched everyone to Windows phone years ago.  These phones were cheaper to replace (except for mine, which were "higher end") AND easier to support.   Those days are now long gone. With the trajectory being what it's been, its just a foregone conclusion for my family to all migrate to another platform (iPhone) until Microsoft's next attempt comes along. My interests and "loyalty" lie with innovation and at attempts to break away with something different that is still useful and functional.  I have no problems being the perpetual "alpha" or "beta" users people bemoan about so much here, precisely for these reasons. Good luck Microsoft. My family awaits what comes next. In the meantime, thanks for not making our lives hell by supporting your apps in the iOS ecosystem.  We still rely heavily on your software.
  • Seems to me with windows 10 on arm (starting on snapdragon 835), along with continuum and cshell, there is no longer the need for the W10M branch. Microsoft's plan is to have the same Windows 10 OS capable of running on any hardware. But they'll continue to support mobile through Feature 2 for devices with snapdragon 821 or earlier.  
  • Agree and it makes sense for sure.  They wouldn't want to see a repeat of Windows RT either.
  • Bummer, I'll never buy another Windows phone, I bought a HTC HD7, then upgraded to the Titan 2, they stopped support 6 months after that, I bought a Lumia 920 and it wasn't upgradeable to windows 10, you could do insider but they never optimized it, I bought an Elite x3, now it will no longer be upgradeable besides some API's. App development doesn't exist.
  • Hello there, did someone mentioned that the supply of smartwaches supporting WP is very limited especially in the high end category. Personally, I found only one brand not lookinig as a child toy, and that's Vector.
  • Nayden, I just bought a Garmin Vivoactive 3 and and it is supported by WP (it plays nice with my Lumia 950 XL). I got it mainly for the fitness metrics, but it is a smartwatch that does push notifications, calendar items, and has a mobile payment option built in. It might be worth checking out. 
  • Just bought a good as new lumia 650. Love it. Will use it as long as I can. After that, I think I'll move to android. I won't lose any sleep over it. Use what I love, as long as it functions for my needs. I don't hate android but I prefer windows.
  • I've used one Android phone. A Rugby Pro. I hate it. I will be turning it in at the end of the month as I retire from my employer (company phone). I bought a 640 for my personal phone for a single reason - adaptive voice dial without data service. Windows (cortana) does it on the phone for any contact that I have, or I can speak the number. Android stumbles and fails unless it can connect to mother Google. Plus, so many Android phones have been stuck on their release version (mine is forever on 4.2, AT&T not updating it beyond). SO, new apps ophan it. I've had to turn PlayStore off on my tablets and phone so that it won't force unwanted updates on apps and thus break them because they don't work on the older Adroid versions. So, I'll stay with the 640 until it is unusable, then maybe go back to the Rugby 2 or Rugby 4 I still keep that do adaptive voice dial onboard flawlessly (just no email and such). I have a 1.5 GB data plan shared between three of us, so we keep data turned off except to send photos or a quick look at the security cameras if we can't find WIFI. I would never use an iThing.
  • „I would never use an iThing“ Thats your problem right there - can‘t make smart decisions based on prejudice.
  • Perhaps the "problem" is follower evangelists being unable to handle someone rejecting their cult, and needing to label one's preference, "prejudice". Just because they are passionate in their position doesn't mean they have no solid reasons. Wow. Enjoy your Kool aid.
  • What really sucks is that one spends like $4-500 on a phone for a Lumia 950 XL a year ago and find the Universal app thing interesting, then one sees app after app getting discontinued or going into maintenance mode. Here I am talking about: Mobile Pay MyFitnessPale WeChat(my wife use that on an Iphone 6 and I almost talked her into buying a Lumia 950 XL) Spotify(I use that a lot and it is really annoying that it is now in maintenance mode) etc. Now the question is.... why did I buy a Lumia 950 XL? Well I came from an Android and I wanted a bit more privacy and a more safe platform. I did get that with Lumia 950 XL. However, I find the lack of popular supported apps rather disturbing so to say.
  • I am very disappointed when I hear that more apps disappear and the Lumia 650 is almost no longer useful in one year. Windows phone a disposable device?!