Is Windows Phone 8.1 too little, too late?

Over the past week we’ve seen a huge influx of new information on Windows Phone 8.1. You can thank the beta Windows Phone 8.1 SDK leak for supplying us with info that’s helping to give a better sense of what’s coming next for Windows Phone. The next big update is a mix of headline grabbing features, like Cortana, and small improvements, like muted conversations, that together add up to create the best version of Windows Phone yet. You don’t want to miss the entire list of Windows Phone 8.1 features that we just compiled earlier today. It’s a pretty impressive set of features coming, but is it too late?

That’s the question you guys are asking in the forums. Despite the impressive gains made by Windows Phone 8.1, is it too little and too late? Windows Phone 7 launched over three years ago and Microsoft has only managed to grab somewhere around 3% of the global smartphone marketshare. While Android controls nearly 80% of the market and iOS controls about 17%. Is that an unsurmountable gap for Windows Phone?

Here’s what paulm187 asks in the forums:

"The rumored features for Windows Phone 8.1 has got me excited for the platform. But there is a nagging feeling that it may be too little too late. After 3 years in the market place, it has only managed a paltry 3% market share. Android, love it or loath it has become the default choice for tablets and smart phones. It has in fact become bigger than Google itself in that they themselves have lost control of the OS and are trying to rein it in. As for the future of Windows on phones & tablets, I'm not sure where it will be heading. Somehow, I feel whatever changes and features are announced at Build, the market gap has widened so much that Windows Phone will never be able to catch up. It may be the case of closing the stable doors after the horse has bolted. I'm a WP fan and love the OS, but in all honesty what do you really think? Are you as optimistic as when you first bought into the platform?"

Paul brings up a few good points. The numbers and market share that Android and iOS control are crazy high when compared to Windows Phone. The conversation in the forums has people arguing for and against the assertion that it’s too late for Windows Phone.

Head to the Windows Phone Central forums to answer Paul and take part in the conversation. 

805 Comments
  • Yes....
    ..........
    Well, yes, and no... It depends on what you buy your products for, if you're new to the smartphone game, or if you're just a average consumer who doesn't really give a flip about what came first....
    If you have to keep up with what everyone else is doing then you might consider WP too late.. If you're out to purchase your first smartphone then you will be to unbiased to even know the difference.. And, if you're most likely the average consumer then WP7.5 introduced now wouldn't be too little, to late....
    But, in business it's never too late... Considering the popularity of McDonalds for decades,,,, we still see new burger restaurants opening all the time, and being successful...
    ..........................
    So, the average consumer really holds the answer here.......
    Nevertheless, It's really up to store associates, and what they think is sufficient... After all, they are the most influential..........
  • No
  • Agreed... Like where is mobile going, no where... Mobile has always been there just like stationery. Anyone with a product/service can get onboard. Microsoft is delayed because of decision making that didn't account for the competition in the mobile sector and harm the OEMs in hardware support which is needed for products to keep pace.
  • Why should I worry about the success of Microsoft? It's not my Dad company! I love WP and I don't care if other people like WP or not. Do Android people worry about Google's sales? Just bring 8.1
  • Android marketshare is significantly overinflated anyway. To include the forked versions in the number is not quite ligitimate considering the often dramatic differences. These forked versions can almost be considered their own platform altogether. Google Android marketshare barely went up. It was the forked versions that increased marketshare dramatically recently. The success of WP is directly tied to the future availability of apps, that's why you should care.
  • Difficult for marketshare to go up when it's already around 90%
  • During the 4th quarter 2013, AOSP accounted for 32% of Android phones sold. That gave Android Open Source Project 25% of total smartphones sold during that quarter, and regular Android 52% of the total. As I said, Android is more realistically 52%, not 80% or 90% for the latest quarter. The comparisons seem disingenuous. WP was 4% of the total during the 4th quarter. Still much catching up to do, but the disparities are actually shrinking, not growing.
  • Yes and no. Forked or not, Google and it's Play service are the primary hub of all versions of Android, save for Kindle and Nook devices. Skew the numbers the other direction all you want, it doesn't mean that it's not still Android that's dominating by a ridiculous margin. Don't get me wrong, I want WP to succeed and enjoy More dev support/marketshare. But your viewpoint here is just misguided.
  • Play is not the primary hub in some rapidly growing versions in China and other countries abroad. This is where the growth is happening. When Samsung introduced their own forked version at CES 2014, Google was quick to meet with them with agreements to avoid further alternatives to their services. Considering the vast marketshare Samsung holds, this was a big concern for Google and the continued growth of their services. Perhaps you are unaware of these things.
  • Agreed
  • Exactly how I feel, too little too late or not I like Windows Phone and don't care what others think. Microsoft have enough money to afford to have failures, just look at the KIN and Zune they helped define what WP is today and I don't see WP going away any time soon. I always feel that those people who feel that WP8.1 is too little too late have already given up on the platform as a whole and would be better off using something else.
  • @ neo158 Exactly my thought. I see WP as unique and its my preference for mobile and will remain so. With people on 2 year contracts and 8.1 just on the way its leaves plenty of scope for growth.
  • Both of which they ditched when they got bored of them. MS have a history of doing this, they *may* yet do it with WP, although (as a user since Pocket PC 2002) personally I hope not.
  • Right on! I love it for what it is, and the one feature I really like, it's a complete different OS than almost everyone I know has! Plus, it falls right in line with Windows 8.1. I wouldn't want it any other way. Who cares what the overall sales are, as long as the end user is happy with what they have & use. BUT, the sale people must be sharp. If they convice too many people to switch to WP from I-apple or android, a lot of them are disappointed with the app selection. Sales people must feel out the people first... does the customer want a ton of complete junk apps, or rather a very useful phone/computer that ties directly in with their Windows 8 computer, and will only be getting closer in the future.
  • The only thing WP has problems with (I feel) are the people in the sales department. I can't tell you how many times when I've gone into sprint to scope out the two newest windows phones (granted I did all my homework on the internet before walking in, and knew pretty much everything there was to know, just wanted to see them and scope out prices) before they came out, that I mentioned them, and the sales people looked at me, and said, "huh? What's that? I've never heard of it....it doesn't exist" I went in a total of three times, and the second time I got into a heated argument, which brought the manager over, and even HE didn't know about the Samsung ativ s neo. WHAT THE HELL?!? it came out in two weeks that particular day. The third time ended up with me just walking out because they tried talking me OUT of getting the phone, saying windows phone was crap and shutting down the whole OS, asking me why I even liked my old windows 7 phone. "why dont you try out the apple phones?" I was pissed. Even if I went in there not knowing what windows was, never having one before, they shouldn't be shutting people out like that. And THATS what scares me. Is the biased people working in the cell phone stores.
    I went to Verizon to switch carriers, and the two guys working were super happy to see me pick up the lumnia and actually know what it was and such. They told me Verizon made them carry the phones around for one month, and, granted, both decided to switch back to their androids, but they said the OS was smooth and its not as bad as everyone said.
    Honestly, its up to the sales people pushing the phones, and not listening to all the biased crap they hear, cause in turn...they are the ones who influence the clueless people who walk in purchasing phones.
  • I agree completely, every store I've been in whether buying for myself or helping a family member has tried to steer me away from Windows Phone. Microsoft will need to move faster if they ever hope to get more market share. I've convinced several people to give WP a try but all have returned to whatever they were using before because of WP missing this feature or that app. Microsoft needs to start out performing Google and Apple, not just trying to keep up. I love my WP but sometimes it's embarrassing when I'm trying to show an Android user a cool feature of the phone only to have them show me a better version of the same feature.
  • Because if it's not successful enough, they will discontinue it...
  • Sucess isn't judged by marketshare. It's judged by return on investment. Apple has something like 15% of the world marketshare for smartphones and like 5% for PCs. Do you see Apple worried. The important thing is that the business is profitable. Right now, WP isn't very profitable to either Nokia or Microsoft. However, if they can grow the marketshare and app market a bit more, their higher end phones will become attractive to consumers and the business will become profitable. Microsoft still dominates enterprise. If they can link up their phone os to their desktop and server software, they can offer enterprises phones and tablets that will be easy for their IT staff to maintain and manage. If they accomplish this, that alone will be enough to create a profitable business. The consumer side will just be gravy.
  • Yup. How big does it need to get? It's grown quite a lot this year. I'm looking forward to 8.1. Tech blog opinions about my phone don't matter.
  • @ Cecewp8 TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU MATE; Well put, VERY well PUT 
  • I think 8.1 looks like an incredible upgrade - heck, even if HALF of that laundry list makes it to RTM. I am more worried about their strategic decisions with regards to Nokia X (Nokia's strategic decisions that is) and those rumors with regards to emulating Android apps on wPhone (Microsoft's strategic decisions - should that pan out to be more than a pipe-dream, mind you). Both have the potential to kill off any momentum they have struggled - and succeeded - to build up over the last years in my opinion.
  • No I dont think its too late. Yes, we might never pass up android or IOS. They have been in the game for so long and have had way more time to develop fan boys. Do you really expect the ditzy blond to give up her simple iPhone for something new? Nope. Do you expect the nerdy college student to give up his over the top android device? I sure dont! Windows phone is right in the middle for new consumers to the smart phone market. Or for people who get sick if there current phone. But really, who cares if we dont pass up android or ios? What's wrong with third place? Windows Phone is growing. I haven't even had my Lumia 928 (soon to be replaced with the icon) a year and it has already grown so much and the app market is getting way better everyday. Im really okay with where WP is going and I'm perfectly okay with 3rd place. Were still doing better then blackberry! And once 8.1 comes out I will be even happier.
  • I am very into smartphones, I've rooted android phones left and right since the g1, I love the iPhone and iOS, but I personally believe windows phone, without those features, is the best OS overall, im saying this because avid and experienced smartphone users love windows phone, it just works! so I still think the market is huge for a very, very good WP OS
  • I also agree with you. iOS always has WiFi issues and other issues that revolve around waiting weeks to get software patches. Android in general sucks. No matter what phone u get. The ***magical GS3*** woah sooo magical.... Even has so many issues (yes I know this personally). And there always hardware AND software. Cheap phones with over crowded OS. WP is simple and elegant and never gives me issues. We lack features. But we can make calls. And emails and texts. Its a situation of overrated... And under appreciated. 8.1 is a huge step for MS. They've put down all there cards this time. Lets see if they deserve the jackpot.
  • *their   /pedant
  • You do realise that pointlessly correcting grammatical errors does not aid comprehension whatsoever. It just makes you look like an arse! The English language is not the only written language on the planet. I wonder which other languages Mr "Their" can actually read and write??? 
  • That's one point of view. Another is that this is how one can learn...when someone points out something that is incorrect and you care enough to learn from it. 
  • IMHO? Really? That was an expression of a humble opinion? There was nothing remotely smug about my comment; you just chose to interpret it that way. So by your reasoning, one should only use correct grammar and spelling when writing formally?
  • I was referring to the original comment and not yours. The same person correct another comment in thread as well(see below). I know that grammar is important and it should be used correctly. I just don't appreciate people that jump on just to correct a simple typo or sentence error. I understood what the guy was trying to say already before NachoBear unnecessarily corrected it. It must be his hobby maybe??? NachoBear says:
    *you're /this is not fun
  • Roger that. 
  • No, I just find bad English distasteful. If people want to speak in their own languages, open up their own forum. I also have no problem with people writing in their native languages as I am comfortable with using Google Translate. However it SEEMS that everytime someone points idiotic mistakes out there is a "good" excuse. The excuse of choice these days is "it's not my first language"...well who cares??? Smart people will learn, true idiots will complain like you. Try going to France and speaking in bad French and just WATCH the way the waiter treats you. It's not good lol. People should take PRIDE in their language. Lastly, of course I speak more than one language, I'm from the UK, we actually go to school here and meet other cultures and travel to other places, unlike our Americans brothers who only know how to say NO MAS because they have a latina maid who fed them too many tacos and cookies.   Fatties! :P
  • French waiters do not earn tip (tip is included in the 19% TVA tax which is part of the final bill), that's why their job really feels frustrating and unrewarding and they'll be aggressive towards strangers AND french people. My point is, you cannot use the french waiters as a proper example to illustrate your talking. BUT, most people in France are actually very VERY tolerant with strangers trying to speak french. Because believe me, it does NOT happen very often. /off topic :D
  • Hi you are right, I was just using them to make a point about French taking pride in their language and I'm not sure if you've noticed but many tourist restaurant menus in France are not written in English too but only in French so non-native speakers are forced to interact and sometimes get chastised or the waiters have a giggle at your expense people have been taking things way too seriously on this page so thanks for the polite insight into a waiter's life. I still tip waiters anyway on top if they are nice. Taxi drivers in France are much nicer but you explained it with the money side. I'll tell you one thing though, the French may be polite for the most part but just try wearing shorts in Paris ;) ;)   If you go to Montreal, Canada everything is bilingual and people are a lot more forgiving of bad French though. In Germany I found that people like to speak English more than they do in France and they don't call you "imbecile" or say "C'est la fin des haricots, cretin" when your girlfriend asks for vegetarian food lol
  • Well I concede that French do not speak english willingly.. But, for our defense (as you've probably guessed, I'm french ;)) our education system is VERY retarded concerning foreign languages.. I mean people start having english lessons at 11, during 4 poor hours per week at best.
    Add to that the fact that this is one of the rare (developed) countries where absolutely ALL tv shows and movies have its voices translated in french instead of just subbing it.. The result is awful to hear but they still continue to do it.
    It looks like a detail, but its fondamental in a young generation spending most its day in front of the tv !
    In the end, French people live in a world where the occasions to read or hear english words are kind of inexistant.
    A glorious example: even our government personalities do NOT speak english, most of them require an interpreter during their business trip..
    That being said, I'm not trying to find excuses, but this is fact: our english level is dramatically poor and this is the result of the combinaison of a lot of parameters like the one I mentioned earlier that continues to build a generation of lazy-proud-of-their-language french people..
    And this is among those very people that some will grow and become english teachers, closing then this inextricable loop and granting our next generations an approximate experience of the english language...
    That my friend, is the reason why french seem not to make an effort: very often, they just can't. As for the insulting people.. well.. yeah.. Paris is full of assholes :-/
  • yes yes! you've described the exact situation for my French brothers here's a funny video that I remembered when you mentioned the next generation of substandard teachers trying to teach English (blind leading the blind I suppose) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trREedJMY0s Here in some schools we start to learn French at 7, some at 11, but I have to say that watching French TV and visiting France as an exchange student meant that it was easier for us as it forces learning, but as you say not so good for French kids trying to learn a more international form of communication. Also I had some goood teachers who were actually French!
      "directement de la bouche des chevaux...de premiere main"
  • Stop replying to each other. Fuck I didn't know I was on OpinionatedMotherFuckers.com stfu.
  •  made me chuckle!!
  • Good. Should be a happy site. Holy mother of sweet Jesus christ. Were here to talk about 8.1. Not education status
  • *We're   /tard
  • Aside from your sarcasm... When I type were in my phone, it doesn't correct it and im not going to take the time to fix it just because you opinionated douchebags think I should. "Were" they playing in the park? "We're" happy their playing in the park! Thats proper usage when I TAKE THE TIME TO CARE AND CORRECT IT ON MY "AUTOCORRECT" KEYBOARD. Lol. Idk why I'm wasting my time
  • people like you ruin things like predictive text for ALL OF US you waster.   THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS PEOPLE   because of LAZY RUDE PEOPLE WINDOWS IS SO FAR BEHIND.
  • you claim it's a happy site then bring jesus into it. great, now i will have nightmares of nails being driven through my wrists by some jew. THANKS HAPPY SITE!   /S
  • Exactly, obviously their teachers had never pointed it out, so what's wrong with some annonymous person on the net for pointing it out to help them and others. I even said /pedant acknowledging that butthurt liberals would get upset, yet still I get all these stupid comments. I'm not their father or boss, I couldn't care less if they embarrass the company they work for by writing in crap English. I personally think language can be used much more effectively if the rules are understood. THEN if you want to break them, say out of laziness or slang, or internet speak, it's completely fine! But basic mistakes like their and there and your and you're just show a fundamental issue with understanding that needs clearing up. Thank GOD i was never a teacher, but that's why we have a billion crappy spellers infecting the net. ALL the spelling bees in America are won by Indians basically so I am TIRED of this "it's not my only language bollocks" Do you people even realise that a calculator does not make you SMART? Amazing word prediction on Windows Phone will make you look EVEN dumber if you don't have a basic grasp of the words you are choosing.   SORT IT OUT!
  • You are obviously a very angry, bitter and biggoted man. 
  • stop replying then for god's sake!! and i KNOW you wrote bigGoted in order to try and make some grand point but i don't really care. you all are way over the top
  • I didn't even bother reading all of your reply. But to respond to your first few sentences....
    This website is for devices. Discussions about devices and related software. Nobody, I repeat, nobody... Wants to be criticized when they're here to get educated on Windows Phone news. Leave people alone. If they wanted to know if they are spelling correctly they would have asked on a site related to the subject or referenced a dictionary. But since they haven't. And have misspelled, its a choice they made. Hop off and please just respond if its helpful to the community regarding the actual topic of the post or general forum discussion. I apologize for my Jesus comment it was rude. I was irritated getting 700 emails about stupid ignorant replies on this thread.
  • i have just as much right to call out bullshit spelling when i am forced to read about devices i love, why would i care what YOU want when YOU afflict my eyes with such disdain for my langauge?
  • For all who are reading this. The only advice I have is... When you get a comment from a dickhead. Ignore it. You can't force someone to be a kind person. Best thing to do is be the better person you can be and the community will thrive. Thanks for all who are strong supporters. Ken, Signing out.
  • get over yourself Mr Self Righteous, be polite to others by not ruining their language at your whim in public. It's called tolerance and respect. I can't force you to speak properly nor can I force a crappy coder who writes crappy code because he is too lazy and only understands pick and choose Visual Basic instead of real coding. Imagine if Microsoft gave the excuses you lazy people give.   Oh yes Windows Phones have all these bugs in it BUT IT'S OK BECAUSE CODING FOR PHONES IS NOT OUR FIRST LANGUAGE AND PEOPLE LIKE KENNETH SMITH HAVE LOW STANDARDS ANYWAY.   you ARE the weakest link, GOODBYE!   Nachobear, signing out.
  • Made me laugh at least.
  • well good, life is a constant process of removing sticks from arses and laughing is the end result.
  • Your end result is annoying everyone on this site.
  • look how through our learning experience you have finally managed to empower yourself and select your instead of you're on your phone. or maybe it was just a 50/50 chance and just like a broken clock is right twice a day, so were you.   i  don't care about annoying others if they don't care about annoying me first. I know i'm a nice person so i don't need randoms on the internet telling me otherwise because of a few comments.   are you trying to tell me it doesn't annoy you even a LITTLE bit when you own Mum sends you a text but she sounds like a 12 year old?   "Did ya eat ya dins bb? Luv Mumz"   sort yourself OUT MOTHER!
  • "I know I am a nice person....." What you are is seriously deluded. All you've done here is make unecessary, judgemental, ignorant, insulting, nasty and biggoted remarks to people you don't know the first thing about.
  • oh go away you racist, i thought i told you already, i sussed you out ages ago. begone
  • Im gona go rawdog some randoms while u make out with yourself in your mirror. @NachoWeener
  • your Mum likes spicy Nacho-flavoured weiners, and you couldn't rawdog anything but herpes infested chavs.
  • You talked as if Windows Phone has no hardware issues at all? There are lots of people facing problems connecting to wifi too. In fact all phones have users facing similar issues. All phones can make calls, emails and text. These do not make Windows Phone any better at all. IMO, it is late. Too late. But well, at least late is better than never. But is WP8.1 good enough as compared to other mature OSes out there, we will see once 8.1 is on our phones.
  • I've been a die hard Windows Phone supporter from WP7 on the HTC Trophy.  Sadly, on Friday, I finally bought a Note 3.  Considering WP8.1 is going to about a year after it's originally targeted ship date I feel the focus has slipped.  It could have been great but with the engineering talent at MS there is no reason it should take this long to get an update like this out.  Heck, the GDR updates should be on a monthly to, at most, bi-monthly basis.  These very minor updates every 6 months combined with a major update every 1.5 years is a little ridiculous.  8.1 should have come out, at most, 1 year after 8 did. I may go back if they start improving it.  For now I'm tired of waiting.
  • Agreed, I have used Android and iOS, and it is incomparable with WP. It would be like asking which is better; lemon or lime? TBH, Android and iOS are maturing, there's little left to be done with the OSes. They're good and so??? People tend to get bored with stability, thus why I left Android. It makes people explore. I'm digressing. Lets leave it to this, what goes up must come down at some point in time. Would I say WP be on top one day, perhaps. We'll never know. It all depends on what MS will do to WP. But it is not too late. Then again, better late than never.
  • Everything comes up with a time nd when the times cmes up no reason stand for that it ain't gonna succeed ..!!!wp came late but slowly its making its market share android is slowly loosing share in sme places because of its laggy nature.
  • LOL .. I resent that comment.. I am a ditzy blonde, and I gave up my iPhone for a windows phone :)    
  • Lol. Well than your not so ditzy. Your smart. Hope your enjoying it
  • *you're   /this is not fun
  • It's "you're". Sorry!
  • You made the right choice.,
  • Couldn't have said it any better myself @Jared Hays
  • Wow, as much as I agree with you let's make sure we cover all of the stereotypes. I'm a pretty nerdy college student doing computer engineering, but I love my 928 :P
  • Well said, my friend.
  • Exactly.WP has  to get to a point where it can keep the developer's interest alive,not only to make apps for wp but to refresh them when it needs it.That way I know that I am on a up to date platform and don't care about who is 1st,2nd or 3rd.It aint my race
  • +520
  • Totally agree
    But black beer. HA-HA
    looks like they are just sleeping
  • Seems like people are forgetting the wide range of non-smartphone/feature phone users that have yet to come into the market. Based on how well the Lumia 520/521 has done, and the feature set coming to such phones, the ease of use just puts up a better option versus android, and the customization, albeit minimalistic, is second only to android, but first is some peoples eyes. (I think live tiles go toe to toe with widgets & live wallpapers)... the market for WP8.1 is still huge for the average consumer... so ur right!
  • This article is outright silly and simply stirring up unecessary drama.
     
    WOULD APPLE OR GOOGLE BRING AN UPDATE THIS MASSIVE TO THEIR PHONES?  No.  Not in their lifetime.  When Android beat Apple's marketshare, where they up to par with Apple in a less time frame than time WP8.1 now does with BOTH of those platforms?  Not at all.  Microsoft is moving much faster than those companies, and people are just not realizing that. Too little?  Have you seen all the leaks - that's not even HALF the stuff that's coming in this update.  There's tons of hidden/unincluded features that are not in the developer preview. Too late?  Not at all.  In fact, it's perfect timing.  They could have easily waited until WP9 to bring all this with the merger of Windows and Windows Phone, but they're giving it all to us now in WP8.1.
  • May be they're not adding all those features because they include a lot of those features already? Come on dude, boat of use like windows phone but you have to be realistic and realize we're missing a lot of features.
  • +1
  • Well Said dude
  • I agree completely yet I still don't regret leaving IOS. I enjoyed IOS for a while but the main reason I go fed up was the cost of devices and icon system (It got boring especially when you had a lot of apps, folders or no folders). Windows phone allows me to have the info I need from my favourite apps on right in my face so everything else can sit on the list till I need them - genius if u ask me. Tiles are just so much more useful and the OS is fluid like a brook on a summer day.....  
  • I think WP need two home screen and an app list,
  • It seems to me that WP is not for you.
  • Lol❕❕
  • It has an app list, and it's the most fastest, and organized around...
  • You didn't just say "most fastest" did you? And your mother and I had such high hopes for you too!
  • Lol.. I did.
  • I think that a 6" device would definitely more useful with the ability to split the screen.
  • I have no issue with MS getting creative as far a multitasking is concerned.
  • i feel asha is right for you
  • But Jared,the swipe to right can be used for something than nothing and maybe we will see that in wp9.
  • Ahmm, Swipe to right you mean?  Swipe to left is already used for app list and in WP8.1, swipe to right over an app tile will be used to refresh it. For ex, you won't need to wait every 30 minutes for lives tiles to get updated...
  • No, I think swipe to right only clears live tiles of unread content.. At least that's my understanding.. Am I wrong❔
  • There were rumours earlier on that swipe to right will be used for "Me"
  • Not sure untill it comes out but if it can actually clear the read content then why not update it? Anyways I guess the tiles will be more functional! :)
  • @gautam,@rodneyej Why there is a need to clear the tiles by swiping right as the notification panel already have 'clear all' option.and MS can use it to clear tiles along with notifications.
  • Because that's just for notifications in the action center,, although that is one way to do it, but swiping right is a faster more direct way to clear tiles one by one... You might not want to clear every tile..
  • Just as Rodneyej said, it's more handy for the selected tiles you want to clear. There may be tiles that you won't like to clear like lets say "Quote of the Day"?
  • you are quite simply the BEST cow on the farm yo
  • If that's a complement then Thanks a ton!
  • of course it is, that's what your name means in sanskrit. many famous, important people in history have shared your name, be proud of it
  • too true +1
  • In the first place why do u bought that phone if do u have a lot of complains regarding the OS? second, Before buying a product u should know whats in it or do research because ur investing money of it. Thirdly,  If it just given by someone to u or as a gift please dont complain.
  • Thanks Rodney for not actually answering the question. You have more "depends" than a senior center.
  • You're welcome, my friend.... *♡*
  • I love depends, I wear them during football season Monday nights. Go Raiders
  • Do you know what's too late? The Black update for T-Mobile users!
  • I tweeted and call them every day always same story. T-Mobile is working with Nokia to bring the Black update to Lumia 521 and 925 once our rigorous testing is complete.
  • And their failure to support the 810 has me looking at aio.
  • I truly feel sorry for 810 users. I believe the 810 is the only US Lumia that isn't getting the Black update. I really don't know why they would do that.
  • Forget about those micro updates from 2013 and pray you'll get 8.1 this summer/fall. I'm absolutely certain this will happen.
  • I think Microsoft/Nokia should set strict deadlines for carriers to release updates. Otherwise, they just work on it when they feel like it.
  • +925, also, I'm done with carrier phone anyway my 925 is the last one, since I need one of those 6" 32gig +SD card I'm sure that's NOT going to ever come to T-Mobile I use WiFi 95% of the time so not worried about LTE that much and there service is poor where I'm at its WiFi calling I've to rely on, and its so true about there update towards windows phone they always drop there support for phones after two r three months.
  • *their
  • +925, Why does T-Mobile always get a pass when they blatantly refuse to upgrade their phones or unnecessarily delay the upgrades but ATT&T gets a lot of beating here for same delays?. In any case I don't think Windows Phone is too little too late. Sometime ago Windows mobile was the King, then came Blackberry, then iPhone and now we all know that ios which used to command about 40% smartphone market share has dwindled to a somehow respectable 17% marketshare. It is evidently clear that there is no permanent seat for anybody in the mobile landscape and Android, albeit a distant leader, cannot reign forever. Though the situation looks quite hopeless for WP at the moment, MS can strongly come back into the picture if they start innovating faster than what we currently see and cautiously eschew any complacency in this area even as they also learn from their past mistakes and the strengths of their competitors.
  • From the current data the non-standard forked Android is growing stronger than the standard Android today, and Windows phone is still growing at a faster rate than the two of them. I don't think market share is going to be a problem in future based on current trends, as long as the platform has the numbers to be viableand is growing its all good, and so far WP is heading to that number.  Plus as the platform hits certain percentage shares in certain markets it gains momentum, over 10% is definitely a significant figure. Me personally I'm interested to see what happens next though in the Smartphone numbers, up until now its been Symbian, Blackberry and others that have lost share to fuel others, now for WP to grow marketshare it must take it from iOS and Android, it could be iOS that comes into problems with a declining marketshare in future and Android will do well to stand still. If iOS continues its current trends though I can see that platform coming into trouble in a couple of years, which will be quite a fall from grace.
  • With google so big now you know what happens to a company when they get to big for themselves.
    They can put themselves out of business, sometimes being slow is better.
    If mcst continues on this path I think in the end the be at the top, and with a new CzEO at the helm this could work in mcst,s favor.
  • Not too late, not too little. Ffs wp8 is pretty sweet. 8.1 looks like a honed in version of wp8. If you want perfection then you must accept Pareto's law where 20% of the remaining defects will take 80% of the time to remedy. I want perfection as much as evolution. Wp8.1 is about perfection, 9 will take the next leap forward.
  • Nice... Very well said❕❕
  • i was born perfect, sorry for you and your phone
  • Perhaps, but what has happened to you since then? Your avatar indicates you've led a troubled life. 
  • I'm still perfect even THOUGH i've had a troubled life. But my troubles are never worse than someone else's troubles so I have never felt the arrogance to complain. No positives without negatives.
  • I've just read all your comments and because you are trolling with racism I have reported you
  • I say a big no, although WP has been missing a lot of the basics found in Android and iOS most of the people who care are geeks. For the majority of general consumers they don't care and it's not what they complain about, the issue is always apps apps apps. Anybody I ask why they don't look at WP always respond the same thing, WP doesn't have all the apps they currently use.
  • I think for most of these people (who are mostly non-geeks), they are just simply parroting some stock reply they have heard somewhere because if you look at their own phones, the apps they use don't go beyond facebook, instagram, and email. With regards to whether 8.1 is too little or too late, that's still up in the air. It will be answered by how well or how badly the general public will accept/buy/use WP devices after 8.1 gets released.
  • I'm a bit geeky and although I'm not into having a crap load of apps, I continually find an app that I would like to have that isn't available on WP8. 
  • Whenever someone asks me for phone advice, i ask them what apps they use. If there's anything on that list that isn't properly supported by WP but it is by an iPhone or Android, I'm going to adivse they get the phone that has what they use. Swype Goodreads Bank software with check deposits Fitocracy Many of things are years off, because WP market share has to reach some kind of significant market share milestone before smaller companies and organizations will begin to support them. It's not just the timing of the necessary features of 8.1, but the overall lateness of the Windows Phone strategy. It was too different from Windows Mobile (and too late) to take advantage of brand loyalty, so it will be a long, hard road to battle back. Microsoft can't really quit this battle, but they can't really win it, either. They'll just have to continue to slough on.
  • ⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆his⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆⬆
  • I believe that small things, like Week-view, separate volume controls and the limited customization (the home screen does get pretty stale after a while, no matter how you arrange it) are examples of issues that the general consumer very much cares about. Luckily 8.1 seems to be rectifying those. But yeah, apps, especially smaller, local apps are still missing. The situation with games has imo improved a lot since WP started supporting native code, and WP is now pretty close to getting equal attention in that regard. Most big name apps can now be found, or their equivalent. Tips_y is likely right that many are just unaware of the current app situation and keep repeating the mantra of "no apps", while there are 200k of them. I think 8.1 is certainly too late, not sure if it's too little as it does make huge strides in improving the OS. I think the issue is largely what happens after 8.1. Another 1.5 years of pretty much nothing? Or will we get regular feature updates to bring in new features and improvements, or patch up the small annoyances that eventually drive people away.
  • Remember- they added new stuff like glance, which is still not featured on apple devices. They are making improvements besides 8.1, but I wish they would add more (constantly)
  • Who did what now? Glance is Nokia, almost all new features last year were Nokia, and they can only do so much.
  • I thought about this^, but with Nokia controlling so much of WP, its like it was rolled out universally ( besides 8X'ers and the rare Samsung Neo). MS was readying the way for 8.1 if we are not including Black/Bittersweet shimmer and Amber.
    edit: and now MS is putting glance into the OS! :)
  • Too late to be #1 - yes!! Too late to be #2 - yes!! Windows phones can be the Mac of the PC world - low market share, profitable and well supported by enthusiastic fans. It's no wonder that WP Central is #1 within the Mobile Nations family. Windows current dominance in a shrinking pc market gives Microsoft time to continue to develop the "One" experience between smart phone, tablet and pc. I do see market share growth for WP as the experiences are unified. In an odd way, I think WP's success will be tied to the success of the Surface. Microsoft needs a hip cool tablet offering which in turn will make it cool to own a Microsoft windows phone. Similar to how the iPhone and now the ipad has made it cool for own a mac again. Microsoft is now in the hardware business so they must be perceived as cool to make others buy a phone made by Microsoft. Remember, they are now inheriting a 90% share of the WP market with the Nokia acquisition so Msft must be perceived as cool or unique in some way given the dominance android and iOS. Thank god for the Xbox. However I'm going out on a limb to say that growth in Surface sales will spell growth in WP sales (assuming the unified experience of the windows OS continues). IMO!!
  • Your analogy is very cool, it hurt my head, but it is quite legit
  • "Thank god for the Xbox"
    YES!
  • The Surface is uber cool, imho. For me personally it does so much more than an iPad.
  • Before  1 month i decided to purchase a WP smart phone as a change of Lagging android. and and I searched web for good phone in a reasonable price ofINR 15K to 25K and I got Lumia 625, I checked full ,it amazing phone but i got a point that 512 Mb Ram will be pushed out in nearest future. and i checked again and I got Lumia 1320 is best for me. I decided to buy it and i visited 3 stores to physically checking and bargaining the price. It is amazing and smoth working. But my decision changed because of most of the apps in Windows store is not free Example: WP central app in WP store is paid app but its Android central app is free in Playstore. you can see the diffrences that same devoloper has diffrent mentality. another example Moliplayer for WP is paid app and Moliplayer for android and IOS is free I think every devoloper choosing WP platform for making more money by exploiting WP users, My decision was changed and I wil stay in my android platform and I am waiting for Micromax Canvas Knight relaese Advance sorry for my bad English and I am from India
  • Allow me to clear this up right now. The Android Central et al developers were all paid by Mobile Nations to offer the app for free, or was developed in-house. WPCentral was developed by an indie developer that still has to get food on the table and has NOT received any money from MN. Plus, the developer (JayTBennett) offers a LIFETIME TRIAL, which still has most of the features in it, at no cost.
  • The point is still valid that MN sees less value for WP. Android and iOS are worth their investment, but WinPhone isn't.
  • marketshare
  • So? Can't deny that lots of apps are free on Android while we still need to pay on Windows Phone.
     
  • Most of those "free" apps are crappy and lag like hell unlike the WP metro apps which works so smoothly as if they are the core apps (ex-Android user).  Second, WP has a small marketshare right now so developers don't see advertisements in their apps can really fetch them much so rather they prefer to make the app paid. I'm sure, once WP gains at least 15% of the marketshare, we'll come to see a lot of free apps.
  • keep saying that but it's the platform that forces developpers to charge (more) for WP.  A WP dev license must be paid every year (the price has thankfully been lowered but still) My android dev license is paid once and done, it is a lot more inviting to make cheap or free apps when there is no running costs.
  • Then go Android and sell all your info to Google. Its rarely really free!
  • How will you know that your info is not sold to MS as well? Will MS tell you that? Don't be so naive please.
  • Stop with the lag like hell thing for Android please. Is not lagging at all. I have no idea what apps you are using on your old Android 2.0, but on my Nexus 7 as well as HTC One, everything is like a breeze. You want WP to gain 15%? Good luck with that. Think of it this way, how in the world will WP gain 15% if Android is the platform where developers are earning? Even if Android is out of the picture, iOS will rather be their next favourable platform than WP. So, sad to say, is just a fat hope.
     
  • Yeah, my boss uses the HTC One and when I handle it I fail to see the lag on that device. However, I still prefer WP after using all 3.
  • Give your Android time, they never lag from new... But from many, many self experiences 6 months down the track I have bits of shit everywhere, which starts clogging up its arteries and I end up at a point where I am hitting the answer button 5 times before I can take a call!
  • WP phone has a settings that memory cap for apps and games. WP OS must sure that the apps doesnt uses more memory than allowed and it will ensure smooth running of the phone. But it has a problem that devolopers must hardwork for doveloping apps for W Phones, and some times may be they dont get chance to create apps for W Phones. Example; There is most number of phones in WP series are worked on 512 MB RAM, One famous game named Subway Surface doesnt support 512 MB RAM mobiles in WP Phones, but it works smoothly on 512 MB Android devices because there is no Memory cap WP always doing task only run their own apps and games smoothly in their OS One another is that if we get paid apps for free in any manner in android we can intall it and we can get almost full features without updates. Example games such as NFS and GTA Vice City we can istall by hacking (I am not using this because of my device doesnt support and I am not interested in Gaming) on the othewr hand paid apps in WP OS doesnt allow intalling without making payments I think WP phone will get a standard user friendly OS after 2016, because they thinking innovation very slowly and they make updates only after years
  • What, you mean someone wants to make money? How dare them! Sheesh.
  • You will find that Android apps tend to have ads rather than a price, the reason for this? 700+ million handsets as opposed to what... 70? It's a hell of a lot easier to make money through ads off of that many people. WP developers cannot gaurantee that people are going to click on said ads, or even see them, so they need their money another way, a purchase price. Given probably 70+ % of paid apps are only 99 cents they're not exactly trying to take your first born.
  • Indians are supposed to be good at English, what's wrong with you?
  • You need to stop.
  • I agree with rodneyej. Stereotypes and racist comment should be banned and discouraged. This is about WPs, not ppl's grammatical abilities.
  • calm yo t*ts liberals, indians ARE better at English than most others, they just have funny accents. their grammar is much better than American English and closer to British English.   just because this chap claims he is rubbish he is only being humble. there is no stereotyping you racebaiters.  
  • what are you supposed to be good at? hindu? come on...
  • It's Hindi. And, not all Indians aren't proficient at English. Why, you ask? Indian languages are far from English. That is all.
  • @ WanderingTraveler   you couldn't be FURTHER from the truth. Sanskrit is one of the roots of English lol! where do people get educations these days?  
       
  • HA! I know basic Hindi because my Mum is from India and she taught me, plus I watched a lot of Bollywood movies, but most people in India learn English as their first language and get taught it in school. I didn't get taught it in school, I'm from the UK. I learned German and French though and I'm good at them but nothing compared to how Indians should know English. There is NO excuse.
  • Indians also are supposed to be nice and kind to other people, aren't they?
  • i can't help that other people read so much into things and take things negatively if i state obvious things. the boy claimed his bad English was because he was from India and I questioned that strange stereotype. Yet others jump on me for stereoptyping him instead. there are over a BILLION people in that country so no not all Indians are kind and no not all Indians are crap at English just because that guy claims he is.
  • you'll spend hundreds of dollars to buy a phone and then complain about spending 10, 15, or 20 bucks for a handful of Apps. I'd rather pay a few bucks and not deal with ads. And these developers spend a lot of time and effort into building some pretty fantastic apps. Why shouldn't they get paid for them.
  • Totally agree with you
  • you can say that again, i wonder why do some people want applications (or things) for free, yet someone would put his/her effort, money, brains and time to it???? (TIME COST MONEY) I WONDER!!!!!!!!!
  • There is no "free". If you cannot tell what they are selling, then the product is *you*.
  • This is true. Very true. Which is why I avoid ads as much as possible.
  • Your English is better than many of the native speakers here Hakkim.
  • If you really don't want to pay for the efforts that somebody took to bring you an app, you deserve to be in Android. As cheap as they come.
  • I mostly agree with you. Today,
    I think iPhone is the best no non-sense phone for the average dad, soccer mom, technology challenged grandparents, most executives and those who value their time more than their money. Simple, straight-forward and always has every app that any developer brings out. Android seems to be the preferred option for the super nerdy and those who given a choice put other priorities in life over getting an iPhone and save a few $$ in the process. WP is primarily a small but faithful set of users who are either MS or Nokia faithful and this group along with couple of mis-steps that Apple had with iOS and android fragmentation and its struggles with performance on lower end hardware has given MS a great foundation but a limited window to grow into a formidable third option in mobile. While the nerdy android user or the technology challenged iOS using grandparents are not easy to convert, everyone else - average dads, soccer moms, teenagers, college kids, hipsters etc are more than willing to switch their phone choices every two years. With WP8.1, MS will finally have a true mobile OS that is complete and have an opportunity to start being a legitimate and compelling choice for these set of users, especially if they keep the Nokia tradition of constant hardware innovation alive. Interesting times.
  • Too late and the quality of apps not as good as others:(
  • 1. I agree- I don't think it would be too late for WP, I'm actually thinking of buying MSFT stock! I think 8.1 will be a huge boost! 2. (unrelated) did you know you are in the 2nd to last screenshot in the WPC app in the in the app store?
  • Wow! Thanks for letting me know that.. That's cool.. I do post a lot, but what are the odds?
  • Pretty small ("more like one in a million") when you think of the amount of visitors! ("so you are saying I have a chance?")!
  • @Calbro. That is the issue right there. What Microsoft needs to do is change the game. Change the way we use our smartphones and think about our smartphones. Let windows phone be the first at this new way of using our phones and it will win. Persisting with apples vision of phones being about apps will only result in being the loser. Embrace apps, ger as many as possible onto the wpstore but, i repeat change, the game and shock everyone.not with new features but new ways of doing things with your phone. Hire talented young people, speak to loads of teenagers about what they see smartphones doing in the future. I am not talking bendy phones, big screen phones, packing sensors into the phone here, i am talking changing the way we see and think about our phones, changing the essence of todays smartphone into something new. I hate to admit it but apple did that will capacitative screens and app store. I know apps existed before that and touch screens existed, but not in the way apple saw it. Finger operated and a curated store managed by the company not nerds on xda.
  • Too late, WP is dead already #iOSonTheRise
  • You buy McDonald 's burger today then tomorrow you may try burger from somewhere else. With smart phones you're stuck with your phone for two years. This is the difference and this is why its too late.
  • It seems that everyone forgets about a thing called "prepay"...
  • Even with prepay in emerging markets. How often most people change their phones?
  • People who don't care, or don't know what their missing because its their first is no doubt one of the reasons its doing so well in emerging markets.
  • It's definitely not too little...but Microsoft has the ability to choose whether it's too late or not.
    Ideally, the announcement of WP8.1 should means all of us, no matter whether we're using a 520 or 1520, should see 8.1 within the month it's announced. THAT'S how organized they should be. If they assume typical Microsoft cock teasing and have segmented releases for different phones/carriers leaving users waiting for months and months, it has the potential to be too late.
  • Yes
  • No
  • Yes
  • Better late than never but android has had all these features and more since the beginning. WP is just catching up, slow as hell.
  • Mobile is the future. It really only started 7 years ago for real, and only in the last 2 years has it really started to compete with the desktop/laptop user space. Too little? Maybe. Too late? No way. We're only getting started. Giving up now would be like if Microsoft had decided to call it quits with DOS when Macs came out. They didn't, in case people have forgotten.
  • Um... I really don't think Android had all of its current features 11 years ago...
  • No, it did not.... WM had most of them though.
  • This would make a good advertisement for Microsoft, a little History lesson for those who didn't know about Win Mobile, explaining how Microsoft chose to stop producing the Android 'like' OS for good reason... They have moved forward into the future with Windows Phone while people have actually gone backwards adapting an outdated OS like Android... There are better ways of doing things now, don't get Scroogled!
  • Android had all these features since the beginning?!! It's either you have a short memory or you're just 3 years old.
  • Actually it didn't and the G1 was a POS when it was released, Android only started gaining popularity with version 2.0 which rectified most of the feature shortcomings. Not only that but most manufacturers skinned Android with things like HTC Sense and Touchwiz and those skins added most of the features that are in the WP8.1 update. FYI HTC Sense and Touchwiz started out on Windows Mobile.
  • no
  • Jes baboso.
  • No
  • No
  • Yes
  • Not for MS but late for NOKIA
  • Decide already!
  • With what's been exposed, I don't know if you can call it too little...
  • Right.
  • Left.
  • Totally agree!
  • While I mostly agree with you, I'm going to play devil's advocate. That's not necessarily true. The exposed features of the SDK have shown that WP8.1 will bring the OS very close to feature parity with Android and iOS, infinitesimally so. But one could argue that playing for a tie is simply not enough. Android is established; iOS is established. If Microsoft hopes to truly garner a viable market share for phones (and tablets, if and when the WP/RT merger occurs), they may need a killer feature in 8.1. Having said that, I must make allowance for the possibility that Microsoft may be holding back such features for the public release.
  • The OS itself is the killer feature. The two big boys don't stand a chance if the App is done right.
  • If u agree the 8.1 update will bring WP close to what android and ios has achieved since their beginning u will realize that they have done this in record time. U may argue about the differences between imitation and innovation but at the end of the day what you get and when you get is what counts. I wonder if android has had so many new features added to the os in the kitkat update. Its like the os has reached saturation. Same is true for iOS. Might also explain why they are shifting their focus on wearables. Amidst that WP makes its users genuinely excited with new updates. In conclusion i d like to say Yes WP is a bit late on the scene but the others aren't going anywhere.. With every update its catching up both in feature parity and user base.
  • That makes sense. I think the same goes for the hardware side of things. I think we have reached a saturation point for hardware and what will come in the near future are just enhancements and incremental things like finger scanner, or eye-ball scanner, or faster processor, or better GPU, or 2k resolutions for 5" screens (REALLY?), etc.
  • That's certainly fair enough. You would think that Microsoft, with the resources at their disposal....
  • Your argument does make a lot of sense, but think about it. There are quite a lot of consumers that are not satisfied with Android's performance (lagginess, defragmentation, etc.), so it just might be that the only thing that's holding them up from switching is the fact that it has more features. When it is established that WP is on par, who knows, they might take that plunge and switch. Just MHO.
  • There is no need to merge WP and RT more then that, simply because WP8 There is more or less just to merge because, except for the UI (that is optimized for the devices), Windows, Windows RT and Windows Phone are pretty the same and with WP8.1 the remaining gap will be filled
  • But WP looks nicer.
  • After blue update WP will be quite ahead of ios and not just achieve feature parity. Action center (witch surpasses the is notification center), cortana (which surpasses siri), plus improved live tiles, customizable backgrounds, etc. The only thing ios will have in advantage are the apps, which are coming to WP faster every day.
  • I think cortana is going to kick siri in the ******! IMO
  • Yeah.but where is that native folder support?
  • It's never too late. Mobile OS comes and goes.
  • Bravo, sir. Well put. This is what many fail to see...the temporal essence in any instance of our reality ;).
  • to transcend the temporary is to find god?
  • It is not a matter of OSes but OEMs names; of course I am stating what matters for the average consumer, not people who read sites like this. Point is 90% of users are average ones.
  • Kind of, but i thought WP was never meant to match Android in terms of features, but more be between ios and android, offering a locked, safe and consistent ecosystem such as ios, while being more open.
  • How is WP more open?
  • Microsoft allows certain apps in the marketplace that can only be had on a jail broken iPhone. Just to name a few: Third party Youtube apps that allow for the downloading of videos and emulators...
  • Bluetooth file transfers, nfc, drag and drop thru a pc are the ones out of the top of my head. With wp8.1 there's supposedly file system and ability to download any file from the browser. Im sure there are others that can add to this list.
  • You right on with that I totally agree. That's why I love wp8 so much.
  • I think times are changing and IOS will slowly fall, Android will probably always be #1 with their shitty cheap phones
  • Just like symbian with its 1st place for almost 14years
  • Nobody cared about Symbian.
  • Nobody in the U.S.A.
  • It's the only country that matters.
  • Your observance is very obtuse, pat yourself on the back.
  • I think you meant "astute".
  • If so, no body cares for almost 14years
  • whatchu talking about willis? all smartphones and top featurephones had symbian back in the day. i miss my p910 sometimes, well not really
  • The europe market is bigger than the US and yes, Symbian was the King.
  • no
  • Pointless argument.
  • True...
  • Though brilliantly poignant
  • I don't think it is a pointless argument but ... I don't agree that it is too little too late either. We are gaining traction. And while I am a developer, and for my primary vocation have to sign NDA's regularly, I actually think this is a good thing that all this leaked ... Atrocious that they broke the NDA but I wonder if it was intentionally done with a back door approval of the big MS ... And if it was not, it probably should have been. Think about it. When mango came out, they claimed 500 new features ... But did they talk about each one? I don't recall it. But now, they get the entire community spreading each and every detail of the stuff they put into the NDA SDK. As long as they have some Major announcement for us to digest on the day of reveal, this is a win for them. I for one and more excited about it now that I have some details.
  • It is building hype around WP users
  • Yeah, the small percentage of WP users who actually care.. The others have no idea about any of this..
  • I agree
  • The beauty of SmartPhones for device makers and OS companies is that the Life Cycle is only about 20-24 months.  Catching up with and gaining share is relatively easier than desktops. So, I say No it is not too late or will be in Smartphone. 
  • Good point.
  • Well said.
  • Great point! I'd also like to add that saturation point for features both in software and hardware have almost been reached so from here on it will mostly be enhancements and increments. WP will be either in parity or not left far behind anymore. This fact plus your point will make it a little less difficult for WP from here on. It's now just a matter of marketing and the coolness factor.
  • Actually, google supports new phone for just 18 months :P
  • I'm still optimistic!
  • Me too. Very optimistic, excited, and pleased by what's coming.
  • I am as well... But I'll state this that Microsoft threw out the bathtub with the water when leaving the prior OS. They had the benchmark for starting a new product with the new code and yet they came in below the standard of the older OS/phone in features especially those business customers liked... Had they benchmarked I don't think they would have used CE but would have gone to NT then we would not have been talking anything about being late to the market because it would have been a product ready for business use with consumer apps to catch up of which they pretty much have...
  • Me too.
  • me three
  • We can all agree that what is coming is more due than surprising.
  • No.. Its surprising because nobody expected WP8.1 to be this big. All we expected was the notification center and Cortana. But they came in guns blazing.
  • ^This!
  • +920
  • Been with WP since day one. I just got a BlackBerry to check out...horrible battery life. Next is an HTC One Mini. Simply put, I am looking around because I think it may be too little too late. I get excited for updates but every time info is leaked it just reminds me of all the basic features we don't have, years and years later. Nokia really added some excitement to the brand. Looking back, I can't believe how fast things have quelled.
  • You make very many good points. I think vanilla Nexus or MotoX will be my next...I've been here for 2 1/2 years, but the feature & app gap is really starting to grate on me.
  • +1020. Most features we're getting, I used to have on my iPhone 4s before I got a Lumia 1020. I don't watch to catch up, I want to be in the front and center.
  • You seem to forget iOS has been around longer.
  • You find 15 and 12 year olds appealling?? Yikes.
  • More is the keyword, dude, 30ish is my age and preference.
  • Naw you edited your post. Now I look crazy! Ha
  • Awkward
  • Really? Your iPhone 4s had live tiles? NFC? Bluetooth transfer? Office build in? Lock screen notifications? Glance screen? The best camera of any smartphone?
  • This is one thing that bugs me about Windows Phone so much. It's not that it has a lack of features, it's that it lacks the most basic of features that actually makes a phone user friendly, really WP8.1 isn't too little, it's just painfully late to the party.
  • NFC with its current Windows Phone implementation is nothing to talk about as it's been neutered to the point of being completely useless. With 8.1 there might be actually some use for it as some restrictions are lifted.
  • To some degree, it sounds like you're holding the 4S on a pedestal and judging what you have based on how well it compares to it. Not entirely fair. The 1020 has capabilities, above just the camera, that Apple has failed to put in their 4-inch phones.
  • Exactly how I feel, I think that if you have to compare devices then WP probably isn't the OS for you.
  • The best part about all of this is how people say, "I hate that it doesn't have this or that feature but I'll stick it out for 2.5 years", but when a leak shows that those features and then some are just around the corner they say, "Bah, it doesn't have the features I want yet, and even though I'll know about the latest update in 5 weeks, I'm just completely over it and leaving". Seriously, 5 weeks away from knowing if its worth staying and you guys jump ship now? I'd understand if we had no prior knowledge of Build or 8.1. But as it stands, I don't get it.
  • Everyone has its momentum. I think Windows Phone is growing slowly but strong. Who knows? Maybe someday, people get bored of Android and iOS paradigms.
  • Yay click baiting. This is silly. As long as it becomes profitable and is a well made OS that's really all that should matter to Microsoft. As a user, of course I want to see it grow, but that's not why I chose WP. That said, doomsday headlines on this site are annoying.
  • I think it's a pretty legit question and opens up some good discussion
  • Yes, speculation is always a good excercise. But we'll never know until this thing hits the market. One thing I believe, it will not be a failure because whether it comes as a splash or a ripple, WP will still continue to grow. Even if it lands causing only a ripple, WP will continue to grow albeit slowly. But if it lands in a splash, then WP's growth will be enhanced in a big way.
  • I think the point of the article is to get us to participate in the forums. Even when there are no new articles, good discussions are happening in the forums.
  • Well, a few years ago who would've thought Blackberry would be a goner by now.
  • Most of us, and I was a Blackberry user.
  • I actually thought blackberry was the shit back in the days. Very classy and all, but yeah it fell hard!
  • Android's only become this popular because most people just buy a cheapish phone and don't know any better. As long as WP devices are scattered around stores with just as much exposure as cheaper handsets, that 3% will change. WP in New Zealand is quite prominent, not sure what the marketshare is, but thats because there are 520's and 1020's in every store :D
  • Its not too little too late, uts never too late. The windows phone brand has not suffered any irreparable damage like the BB brand. What Microsoft needs is to announce the software and release a killer phone within a week to capitalise on the hype surrounding the new features. I guarantee you will get a large percentage buying out of curiosity. This is the most important update for Microsoft. If it fails to capture consumers with this one then windows phone will unfortunately suffer a painful death like the Zune, kin, e.t.c.
  • +1020. By having Nokia introduce "top-specs" phones like the Icon and the 1520 people. These killer phones will compete with todays phones and bring people in
  • I think this is true, Samsung got so big by advertising. Maybe Microsoft needs to spend big on advertising. WP8.1 sounds a good step forward, hopefully we will get more features that we don't know about yet. Microsoft need to get a unified store, get windows Phone apps working on RT, get more companies to support the platform. The sooner the ecosystem gets stronger the better. There isn't a compelling reason to stick with the windows ecosystem, no app reuse on phone and tablet. No notification from phone on computer or xbox.
  • They would need at least 2 devices, one high end, and one in the range of 720.
  • I think it will always be #3, but it will get more market share. And btw, I love how you guys are mentioning a lot of articles that are in the forums!
  • Setting the U.S. aside, elsewhere in the world depends on what Apple does that will decide whether WP gets to no. 2 or not. I think it's an accepted fact that in the U.S., no matter what kind of iPhone is put out, people would still buy them. But that's not the case in majority of the world. If the iPhone continues on its course of premium prices only, and WP continues to improve in features and be marketed in the affordable sector without sacrificing the high-end, it will definitely overtake the iPhone and become no. 2.
  • That's the problem though, most people only see US market share when it comes to WP. Here in the UK and in parts of Europe market share is in double figures already.
  • I completely agree. Here I'm starting to see Lumias everywhere, the 520 is most common.
  • While I would have wished that they would update the OS rapidly over the past year to agrees the shortcomings rather than releasing on big update like they are, I don't think Windows Phone is dead. If it somehow is too little, too late, the carriers are partially to blame, since they would have balked at several big updates in 2013.
  • Well it really depends on what companies can bring I don't think it was up in tell about a year or so ago that everyone is seeing just how good WP8 really there are people that want change something other then what iOS and Android have been offering for all these years for someone to come along and think outside the box but here's to hoping haha
  • Microsoft got money and ressources. They should never give up until all solutions and possibilities have been explored for Windows Phone. Go microsoft!
  • Sort of. Depends when they will release new hardware with it and when they will push the update to current devices. If it takes them another year to do that, it will be too late, especially if Apple launches iPhone with bigger screen size. For optimal sales results, all of these features should've come with WP8. It also depends on what hardware they will release with Nokia devices buy out.
  • I don't think there's much to be concerned for WP with iPhones coming out with bigger screen size/sizes because these will be marketed in the high-end portion where WP is not doing too well yet. It's Android that will be affected by big-sized iPhones. What will affect WP is if Apple decides to produce cheaper iPhones because the affordable portion of the market is where WP is doing brilliantly at the moment.
  • Not little... But way tooooo late.. Add AT&T support to that and its almost primitive. All the hard wok in bringing those features is gonna go in drain...
  • If next iPhone is at least 5" I'm switching back. Not enough of an ecosystem here.
  • 8.1....
  • Same
  • A ecosystem consist of way more than just apps... Your concern is apps, and while that's understandable, lets not forget that WP has a very strong ecosystem.. Xbox, office, OneNote, XBM,,,, apps are just one part...
    ......................
    Nevertheless, the app situation isn't horribly bad now, compared to other platforms...
  • I believe all those Microsoft apps have been ported to IOS
  • You have to pay for Office on Android or iPhone..
  • I've never seen an XB achievements section, and most everything from MSFT costs money on iOS.
  • When I came to WP I was shocked to see most Apps with 2 or 3 star ratings, now most categories have a 4+ star App to be had.
  • Me too. My Lumia 920 gets 4-5 hours of battery life, while my iPhone 4 lasts all day. Bigger screen and I will buy iPhone 6 for sure.
  • You may want to check your phone settings. My 920 generally lasts all day without a problem.
  • Since Amber, my 920 has been lasting all day, maybe even 1.5 days.
  • Lucky you. My cousin's iPhone 4 needs charging every 4 hours with moderate to little use. My aunt's iPhone 5 needs charging 3X a day with moderate use.
  • I run LTE, WiFi, location services, etc. at all times and average 16 hours with moderate-to-heavy use. Perhaps you got a lemon. I have friends with the iPhone 5 who keep location, LTE, etc. off all the time to save battery and are still lucky to get 8 hours - same with non-phablet Android friends for that matter. WP8 seems to be least resource-intensive OS, or iPhone batteries are just too small due to the phone's size.
  • ugh ipeople make me puke
  • That would be a very noob thing to do, how anyone can tolerate those boring ass tiles is beyond me. With windows blue it is already clear that ios will be left behind feature wise and the app gap argument is just ridiculous by now.
  • The way OS's work in this day and age, whomever is on top today is in the gutter tomorrow; And those that are at the bottom today could hold 80% of the market tomorrow.
  • Not for Windows...
  • We're talking about WP.. It's not fair for you to judge it by the PC version...
    .................
    But, if you are then just consider that Windows holds over 90% of the PC market, so to say "not for Windows" is not true either way..
  • I meant that Windows desktop won't be dethroned....
  • I don't think its too late, its more about the end user experience of the OS. If windows phone continues to offer a Nokia-style experience for the consumer and differentiates itself that way, it will draw a new breed of consumer to WP. My friend just made the switch from IOS and she loves the WP experience despite not having some of her apps that she had.
  • it's hard to say, Microsoft has the money to stick it out for a long time. One thing I will say is that I hope there are more surprises coming then what has leaked out. So far everything I've seen so far is what iOS and android has had for months if not years, we need to stop playing catch up and start really innovating to give people a compelling reason to switch platforms. Also the fact that we have the best cameras on the market and have a crummy instagram app and no VSCO app is a joke.
  • I agree. Microsoft has a glut of money in cash reserves that you think they would throw at app developers to legitimize their platform. Instead it almost looks like they're on the sidelines with all of these app developers waiting to see if the platform takes-off before they fully commit. Though that opinion is tempered somewhat by the effort they have clearly put in to 8.1, I cannot help but think that this platform would be in much better shape market share wise if MS would have opened their thick wallet wider and much sooner.
  • I think its complicated. Do I think that Windows Phone will reach the level of market share for it to be competitive? With phones like the 520 providing a signifigantly better experience than similarly priced Android phones... maybe. But not in the US. Do I think it Microsoft will pull the plug? No. Unless they sell off Xbox and stop focusing on the consumer space. Which seems unlikely with the expansion of Xbox Music, Xbox Video and the upcoming Xbox Reading. It's possible, but I think Microsoft won't give up on it's three screen strategy. Because even 3% is still millions of people using their platform. Too little? I'd say no from what has leaked, but we can make a better call when we know more officially.
  • Microsoft could pull the plug, just use android with their services baked in. I'd hate that, but I'm sure somebody at Microsoft is crunching the numbers on that scenario.
  • Actually it would seem that Microsoft has finally figured out that the best way to make money is to get 30% for someone elses work. No way they give up on a mobile app store.
  • What a ridiculous assertion. I'm sure nobody is crunching android numbers at Microsoft so they could jettison millions of WP users for Android.
  • No..
  • No.
    Microsoft is in the fortunate position where they not only 'control' the Operating System but now the hardware.
    This is what makes Apple great at execution. They control everything and as such can move quickly.
    Microsoft needs to execute now.
  • It's too late to take over the market. Dominance is about being first, and as for creating "a general purpose OS for a range of different devices" - Android came first the same way DOS/Windows did. It's not too late to gain a healthy chunk of market share. Gaining market share is about differentiating your product, and delivering excellent quality - the same way Apple did with the iPhone.
  • Android did not come first. There were many mobile os ahead of it...it just managed to catch on at the right time.
  • I specified: "first OS for a range of different devices.  Symbian was locked to Nokia devices. iOS was and is locked to Apple devices. Blackberry had and has its own OS.  
  • Symbian was on many other platforms and Nokia made open source and it still failed, if I'm not mistaken Samsung made Symbian phones.
  • Yes, Samsung made Symbian phones. So did Sony, so did LG, so did Motorola.
  • The first OS for a range of different devices was actually Windows Mobile.
  • you must be born yesterday even vintage winmo was on a range of devices   ...NEXT
  • I was born long ago enough to know how to be polite, which doesn't seem to apply to you.   Anyway - I admit I didn't know Symbian was on so many devices. I knew windows CE was on a range on devices.   I should have specified I was talking of the post-iphone era, when the market was rebooted and designing an OS for devices with a keyboard was like designing a new command-line driven os for desktops.
  • so basically you just wasted everyone's time with 3 pointless comments and disinformation based on your selective memory? don't tell me not to be rude when i point out your fluff so others don't get confused for NO reason whatsoever. please don't bother replying
  • WP ALL DAY!
  • punani all day!
  • I don't but if they could release 8.1 with launch devices tomorrow it would be a thousand times better than 6 months from now--the time it may take before new devices are available. WP has been deficient for far too long and Microsoft just doesn't to have much concern about it.
  • I dont think they don't care. They've been making conscious changes to put more effort but Microsoft is just slow
  • Listen to yourself and you'll realize how clueless you sound. If they didn't have any concern, do you think there would be that many features in the 8.1 they'd been working on for perhaps 3 years, for sure 2 years?!!
  • Not for me. These improvements are very cool, but my phone works just fine as it is. There aren't any glaring missteps on this OS, and I actually love it. When it comes to getting information or making information as efficiently as possible, I still believe Windows in general is the best platform for my workflow. So, improvements are welcome, and they should be continuous, but as is, I am pretty set.
  • Windows Phone is like a Treuno '86 running downhill against a Lancer Evo...it's now catching up, won't be long before it'll overtake... Initial D reference.
  • Might as well shut down this website if that's the way people are going to think.  Just throw away all your Window Phones.  Seriously.  Wouldn't it be better to just have some faith in the company?  What has "being late" have to do with anything? I don't believe in being late to anything. It's not as if people are incapable of trying different OSes down the road.  prior to iOS7, there was quite a bit of crap that iPhone didn't have.  Yet it was successful.  Now that they have it, tech bloggers are shooting down WP for being "too late" seriously.  Double standards.  It's good to see the development that WP is going through, when people go to upgrade, WP can now be a much more viable choice.
  • +925^925
  • Exactly my thoughts!! +1520
  • I disagree. Technology moves in waves. Microsoft, with its various products, is moving towards controlling the next wave. I think they've done a fantastic job with taking an OS from non existent to where it is now. They moved a little slow at first, but it appears to be picking up.
  • from non existent to non existent basically. Think about this. MSFT shipped windows phone in 2011. Android was far less dominant than it is now. Today WP is farther way from android than when it shipped. They've techincally not moved forward, but backwards.
  • Windows Phone 8.1 is exactly what the platform needs right now. They rebuilt the OS in 2012. In 2013 it was all about developing the hardware capabilities and increasing the app base. 2014 is about answering the user base requests for OS functionality and expanding the developer abilities with core Windows. With the right hardware and marketing we'll see the market share increase to the 8-10% as iOS usage whithers away. No doubt Android is the reigning champion right now, but tides turn with time, and this is where it begins folks.
  • No, I fell like this puts it on parity with the other platforms. Is it enough to compete with Android lingonberry and iOS 7s.
  • No, in fact its quiet on time, being last OS to develop than iOS and Android, it has the advantage to correct what were wrong in those two OS, and what ot should be done to make it better, its better to make one great when theres a barrier that been set, since android and ios is a barrier benchmark for wp to pass, it will surely get better than those two in the right time
  • I don't think its too late. However, i would love for a timely fix for my yellowish pictures (and no other app or fiddling with white balances fixes it) and making the music player comparable to other platforms.
  • That's a Nokia firmware issue, not Microsoft.
  • Considering the change in ownership, it actually *is* Microsoft's problem now, and going forward. Since they bought Nokia's phone business, Microsoft will be taking over responsibility for supporting even the older phone hardware still under warranty.
  • Soon. But not yet.
  • As the deal still hasn't been finalized, your criticism needs to be squarely placed on Nokia.
  • it was not an all out commitment MS was not all in. The OS held back advances in hardware that held back App development Simply put there were apps it could not run and HD displays could not work Worst of all it has taken years to bring the OS to an equal footing Now the question is will MS give Nokia it's head and let them do whatever is needed to take market share the US is not the world
  • I totally agree...
  • Of course it's not too late. The question should really be: Can Windows/WP development speed up and can it keep up and start to innovate more instead of follow? Anyone whom thinks a product can't make inroads to the status quo has much to learn. There's a time when many would have questioned whether it was a possibility to make gains on MSFT itself and now we question whether or not MSFT can make gains. Companies make those gains by plugging away and attempting, not by saying it's impossible and accepting. These things take time and you don't unseat the King overnight. You make small gains (which has been happening) and keep moving. It may not be easy to topple the current leader, but it's been done over and over and over throughout history. Enough of this talk about whether or not they can become a major player in this new mobile market. We all know it's possible. A better question is: Will they? That remains to be seen and it will take time and effort to be successful.
  • Spot on +1 to this
  • Microsoft has done it before. People were doubting the Xbox because it entered a market that had some stable competitors.
  • Well @ least WP's not in the situation that rim is in seeing as it is losing paid subscribers(which is the only true way they earn revenue other than their app store) i could see them ending up like nokia pre-windows phone
  • Too late? Yes. Too Little? No.
  • To the people who think its too late....so for the remaining time of human life on planet earth or anywhere else for that matter (which is thousands and thousands of years if we don't kill all of each other before then) because Microsoft came 3-4 years late to the whole smart phone party that its means it won't ever gain more respectable market share? I could see microsoft giving up if they were a small business that didn't have billions of dollars...or if they focused just on enterprise products and gave up on windows, windows phone, Xbox,etc. But they won't...thats what makes microsoft an interesting company they are so large that few of business sections could be in the red but because they have other stronger businesses that they still make huge profits quarterly and yearly. So, no it doesn't matter...and if windows phone never gains as much IOS or android I don't care...apps are apps and they become popular and fade away and really who has the time to use all of the apps they install on their phone? As long as it can search the web, weather, news, text, and do things I need to do aka browse documents I have stored in the cloud, etc WP is good enough for me.
  • "As long as it can search the web, weather, news, text, and do things I need to do aka browse documents I have stored in the cloud, etc WP is good enough for me." So does Android. :)
  • This article will just start arguments...
    I personally am 100% satisfied with the current version of the OS....and don't need more to be happy with it. I just home these updates don't screw up the simplicity and security I enjoy about WP.
  • Its been over. I love my WP but its to late. To expensive to even dent android. WP will never hit 10% and will be out of the market befor 2017.
  • A lot of people thought the Xbox would have been a fail, so. :P
  • As long as it's profitable to produce, Microsoft will produce it. With the fact that over a billion smart devices are going to be sold this year, even that 3-10% range is a significant base.
  • Nothing late, remember BlackBerry and Symbian? If you provide good products and better in many ways than the competitors, people will going to buy.
    This is technology it changes very fast.
  • Its not too late especially in areas like Europe, Central America, etc. Considering Apple is not even competing at the low end of the market their is market share to be had. It is definitely a bit too late in the USA where users are satisfied with the iPhone and the various Android Phones. Microsoft just needs to charge ahead and keep up with the Windows RT and Windows Phone 8 merger.
  • Nokia had the crown for 60