Microsoft has begun converting its Classic Windows Apps for the Store through Project Centennial

You seem to be confusing Build as some public, consumer event and not for devs. They had plenty of Centennial sessions where they did show this stuff to developers.

"not months later with anniversary update"

I mean, it's software dev. You can't just snap your fingers and make it happen. There are OS changes likely needed to work with Centennial APIs. Sometimes I feel some of you underplay the complexity in doing this stuff. Just lots of "shouldve" without knowledge of how it all works.

I'm actually a developer for an enterprise bigger than Microsoft itself (as in it has 3 times the emplyees of microsoft). My group develops a prduct that is based on another product. Latest version, which is 2.2SP1 is based on features contained on version 7.0 of the main product. Both come out the same day so that each product enhances the showcase of the other one. This was just to show you that sometimes you "underplay" the knowledge of your readers ;) There should be no problem to develop things in parallels inside the same organization, if they didn't want to do so it just means that they didn't care, and it's ok, but it's not that it can't be done like you just said.

Ok, you peeked my interest, what is the name of your company. If they are that good, ms needs to call them for ideas but I do hope you can see as a dev the complexity of what ms is doing. Sure your company released two product updates on the same day to reflect how each enhances the other but working on applications only and working on apps and a totally news os and trying to get legacy apps to work with this new os' distribution framework is a totally different field. But what do I know, you sound for me experienced than I could dream to be.

Converting some apps with Centennial adding maybe some livetiles is a very simple task and could have been done very easily and using internal builds of their own OS and bridge. They are masters in software development and continuous integration. If they wanted it would have been a very easy task no need to be an expert to know that :) Oh and no need for the irony, the branch of the enterprise I work for is not so good in my opinion MS is miles ahead in SW development.

piqued* 

Please tell me this enterprise... if you're gonna boast at least provide a way to verify your statements. And once again, the anniversary update hasn't been released, neither has centennial; they have only been previewed to developers, both at the same time, at build.

Just the fact that you imply I'm a liar should grant you an insult. But I'm a polite person. There are not many enterprises out there with 300K+ employees, moreover you can look at my linkedin profile if you want. The point is I don't think you can check anything given the vast array of products and that most of them are related to industrial automation, are you going to ask for the documentation to the customer support to check version numbers and release dates? The funny thing I didn't boast about anything, I just stated simple fact, and working at a big enterprise is no point of honor neither something to boast about, it is just an answer to Rubino saying to me I was ignorant about the matter while I probably know a lit bit more about it than him :)

So you have 300K employees, but are not all in software development.  Much different than if your company was mainly a software company.  The size of the company does not matter as much as you would like to think it does.  

Just the fact that you feel the need to point out something so obvious feels stupid. The point is I work for a big company which produces software and hardware. It's comparable to what microsoft does so I can say what I said knowing what I'm saying. It is simple logic, stop playing devils advocate and look like kids. You don't need to defend the editor at all costs, he said I was talking about things I don't know, I proved him wrong, end of story.

stating your opinion isn't proving someone wrong. Showing that you yourself can do what Microsoft is attempting, being that it is apparently simple as you claim, would be proving him wrong. All you have done is state your opinion with no basis to back up anything you've said. Your statement holds the same amount of weight as me saying "I am a rocket scientist, and I don't understand how NASA hasn't sent humans to Mars yet, it is simple. I work at a big company, and I have sent people to a different country before, so I would know!"

Except we know the effort of converting via that bridge, we know the skills at microsoft and how continuous integration works and can do 2 plus 2 . Not understanding an explanation doesn't make it wrong :) . And if you followed I proved him wrong on the fact he said I don't know what I'm talking about. Again you fail to understand both the technical side of the argument and the "political" side of the argument.

I am an astrophysicist, in fact my name is Neil deGrasse Tyson. By your logic, you now must accept what I just stated as fact, because I told you so. You fail to understand the meaning of providing proof or evidence of your claims.

I just assume you are clever enough to follow a reasoning without having to explain everything in detail. But since this is not the case, let's recap and see what you can't understand: -Centennial needs very little effort for converting a win32 application, see technical documentation if you don't believe this fact -Microsoft has very experienced developers (do we need to discuss this as a fact?) -Microsoft can work with agile methods and parallel development on thier own products - continuous integration, if you know something about software development this is a fact too. These three facts explain why they could have released these ported apps as a showcase for centennial at build, for example. Understood? About the political part, i.e. the fact that I'm a developer, how do you want me to prove this? If you are going to doubt everything you can pretty much continue and live in you miopic world, or you can look up my name and find my job profile, you are trying to see if I'm a software developer, and you know my name, guess you can use google or bing and combine these words to find if I'm lying. Someone used the right word about this community, it is toxic. Well actually more of a kindergarden. But I just like to play with kids and practice english.

I'm just going to ignore the part about you playing with kids... Far to easy to make a comment about that. But your comment fabulously demonstrated the reality that, in fact, you did not catch what Daniel was saying in the first place :) Yes project centennial needs little effort, which is the beauty of it! What Daniel seems to be referring to is the fact that project centennial (the tool to actual do the app conversion) itself was not quite ready for prime time, and needed some final touches before they began converting apps with it. Doesn't mean they will miss the chance to showcase it at thier most important developer conference! Do you follow?

I follow and it just doesn't make any sense :D it was ready at Build so the apps could have been ready if they wanted to do them, instead they decided to show a converted witcher3, did you even see the Build conferences?

It must be either AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, Time Warner, GE or some other TV/Carrier/Internet provider.

I don't think that centennial will replace Win32 Api Calls with new UWP calls. In fact, this is still a huge hindrance for rewriting Win32 programs to UWP programs easily. There are factors more Win32 API's than UWP API's.

Because it still works on any Windows, your stupid logic hold no merit!

The best way would have been​ create UWP versions of that apps, rewriting them and let it be truly universal.

Why? Microsoft has tools, why not use them. No-one really needs to spend development time on a new version of Wordpad.

That would have defeated the purpose of Project Centennial. If they released them as UWPs, they would be telling people to "build it again". Project Centennial is about showing devs that they can release their existing apps, without any changes, to the Store quickly and easily. It's about generating interest and Store submissions, which this does. Additionally, it allows a 1:1 comparison of the apps so you can test them before you commit to releasing your own projects. All in all, I think this was a great "money where your mouth is" moment.

Store submissions is the eventual goal, and this step goes a significant way in doing that. Spotify, are you listening?! Posted from Windows Central app, Built for Windows 10.

They have done this for some apps (e.g. Calculator), but other Windows Win32 apps can serve as great examples for Desktop App Converter (aka Centennial) use scenarios.

I'm just gonna wait until they convert Visual Studio to UWP. THEN I'll be impressed ;) Wordpad? Who even cares lol

Not only that, but wordpad and not notepad - *why*?

Notepad is used as "run as administrator" often to modify system files. Doubt an isolated appx can be granted those privileges.

So there would be support for windows 10 mobile or not??

Not announced at the moment.

There has to be a Windows 10 Mobile device with a processor chip to support 32bit first. Don't think there is one at this time.

There won't be one either courtesy of Intel's revised road map.
(For more info about that story, you'll need to head beyond Windows Central!)

I wouldn't worry too much about Intel's roadmap, just look at HoloLens with the custom HPU, if Microsoft needs a component to make their idea come to life they will get it. Posted from my Lumia 950

Article will come. But first Windows Central will be rebranded as Microsoft Central.

This has nothing to do with Intel and everything to do with Microsoft neesing to build an ARM compiler for this tool and to finish their 64bit ARM version of Windows 10. Seriously, you should have known MS wasn't going to make an x86 psmartphone when they said that they are committed to Windows 10 on ARM.

Terry said that they intend to support Windows 10 ARM on 4 inch screen for some time and focusing out of consumer market. What does this mean for Windows on tablets, nothing too good I suppose now that Intel is out. No ARM nor Intel available for lightweight affordable tablets (unless one goes for iOS & Android)

Honestly, they'll probably fill the gap with the core M series. Yes it's pricier now, but tablets with M3 are steadily getting cheaper and I imagine they will eventually fill the hole left by Atom processors since they have the weakest performance out of the line, albeit still better than Atom. This is speculation of course.

Sorry, did I miss an announcement where Intel is out of the chip business for tablets and phones?

Yes. But it was for some reason never reported here.

Have been tipping them and m sure many others did, but MS would not like to have ppl see such news so WC wont report it

They have covered it, see newer articles... http://www.windowscentral.com/can-project-centennial-apps-run-windows-10...

Yes, yes you did.

every mobile processor support 32 bit.

So,why not this apps do??

Yeah, there seem to be some confusion here over architectures

You're absolutely right. Sorry. Don't know what the hell I was thinking.

username checks out  

LOL don't play with them, they are confused enough. He mean x86 processor that supports win32 apis

Exactly. It's about APIs, not processor architecture.

Not even close. http://www.brighthub.com/computing/hardware/articles/107133.aspx

However, they do not all support the x86 instruction set, which is what Win32 mostly references to. ARM and x86 aren't compatible afaik.

It has nothing to do with 32-bit vs 64-bit. It's ARM vs x86 that's the issue. Lazy reporting. :(

No. That's not the purpose of Centennial

I mean this is pretty cool and all, but what's the point? Those apps already come bundled with Windows 10. Also, from what I understand about Project Centennial, it's just a wrapper for Win32 apps and therefore not a true UWP app. All Project Centennial does so far is allow Win32 apps to be distributed in a store friendly format. However, these apps may never run on Windows 10 Mobile or other Windows 10 family devices unless the goal for Project Centennial is to be able to run Win32 code on ARM devices.

One thing I see here as positive in this early stage of Centennial, that if system apps are converted with it, the store gets bigger, and those apps can be updated through the store. Posted with the Windows Central app for Windows 10 on HP 250 G1 notebook. It is a scary old monster, I think :D

I think it is mainly a message for developers that also Win32 apps are really welcome in the Store. + Converted apps will be definitely more safer for OS and its users.

Yeah, for now Project Centennial is really meant for Desktop apps to be distributed on Windows Store for PC's. Its still a long way before these can run on W10M Continuum, not to mention W10M itself needs some libraries, dlls, and necessary components (that may include few legacy ones) to run Desktop apps natively but also may bloat the OS. So there is still need to sort out best solution especially not to sacrifice the lean and lightweight aspect of a mobile-centric OS. Sent from Turing Machine

I think the intention is to remove them from Windows 10 in favor of hosting them in the store. Beyond making Windows 10 itself smaller, it allows Microsoft to update the apps outside the of the system update process. By moving these win32 apps into the store, it makes it a lot easier to ultimately replace them with UWP versions with most users not even realizing when the changeover occurs because it will be updated in the store like every other app.  

That's a possibility, or it maybe this just makes them easily updatable when needed even its bundled with the OS. Not to mention that these desktop apps left unchanged since Windows 7. Some of them have replacements and some of them have features that can be converged on existing Universal Apps. Only special exception are Notepad, Charmap, Paint and other app that don't exactly have Universal app equivalent. Sent from Turing Machine

I have used Notepad since Windows 3.10 and it has not changed much in appearance. I presume that Microsoft rewrote the underlying code at some point to support the long filenames present in Windows 95 and newer, as well as to be able to load bigger text files than 16-bit code could. I honestly do not remember when I started seeing long filename-support in Notepad, but .. Windows XP perhaps? I'm not even sure if it has made the jump to x86_64 yet :)  

I wonder would it making open documents in wordpad that have some type of malware in it, immune?  That to me would make it going to the store worth it.  Just wondering.

"All Project Centennial does so far"

(1) Siloed app installs without affecting the registry (2) Live Tile support (3) Notification Support (4) Auto app updates.

"but what's the point?"

A company should use its own tools if it expects developers to do so as well.

Many programs don't have enough options in them so being able to modify the registry is a must. Once a program becomes UWP app and isn't listed in the registry how are we going to change its settings?

Settings aren't magically appearing in the registry. The developer has to create the settings in the first place, and then maybe an UI for them as well. The same goes for UWP, but they are not stored in the registry. The registry isn't magically solving this issue. Not sure where most devs store their settings nowadays, problably the cloud, local file and environment variables.

They become self-contained, much like how applications work on OSX.

For now, the tool virtualizes the registry. No changes needed -- the app thinks it is accessing the registry when it is simply accessing a  self-contained, isolated package that looks like the part of the registry it needs access to. You should watch the Build 2015 and 2016 videos on Project C.

Technical advantages notwithstanding, the biggest advantage for an app to go Centennial is to be in the Windows Store - plain and simple. MS does the bulk of the job of publicizing your app, making sure that updates reach your consumers, a consistent revenue model, etc. Basically all the advantages of a Store app. Posted from Windows Central app, Built for Windows 10.

Even preventing piracy
 

Fully agree! The fact that they haven't converted office speaks volumes about how difficult it actually is, or how many limitations there are, or how poor the final product will be, or how little commitment they have to this, and all other bridges. What Microsoft is saying by porting wordpad but not office (or even notepad) is: "here's a cute little toy to play around and experiment with, but don't take a chance with your real software, because this whole bridge thing just isn't ready yet". A company should use it's own software to demonstrate how much they trust their own tools.

Think of Centennial as a long bridge for the developer. On one side is your existing Win32 app, on the other side is the exciting land of UWP. Now as a developer, just as you are about to enter the bridge, you get to see and use some basic UWP functionality (like store distribution, live tiles), but you are still dragging the legacy Win32 code behind you. Now as you keep walking, you start to leave parts of your legacy code behind and use similar code from the UWP side. But as you move closer to the UWP side you get to use more and more unique functionalities of UWP like Cortana integration, Windows Ink, etc. Finally when you have crossed the bridge and set foot on the UWP land, you have no legacy code left and all you have is UWP. Now you can think of deploying your application to multiple devices like phone and surface hub, etc. Now it is entirely up to the developer whether he wants to cross the bridge, step on the bridge and keep standing or not step on the bridge at all. But unless he fully crosses the bridge over to UWP side his code will remain limited to PCs only.

Thank you for your explanation. Questing for an even better Windows 10

Sounds very good, but AFAIK the sheer numbers of API's for UWP Apps is still factors smaller than for Win32. So just rewriting will not be too easy, as of yet. But surely MS will steadily expand the UWP possibilities.

Wow, that's a really nice way of putting it. Posted from Windows Central app, Built for Windows 10.

I imagine the point is to make the Store the centerpiece for app distribution and installation management for Windows 10. Let's face it - Microsoft needs to discourage vendors from sending software for admin-level installation on PC's over traditional web downloads - as there are too many mal-ware bundled forgeries wreaking havoc on PC's everywhere.
 

It would encourage a bit if they would remove 30% store tax.

Point is simple - decoupling system programs from the system. Microsoft can't update WordPad without updating whole OS. If they move it to Store they'd have to decouple it from OS. It means that somebody at Microsoft could be assigning to turning WordPad (just an example) into UWP app at some point and when it's done it'll be sent to Insiders and then to the rest of users. Doing the same right now is quite a hassle.

If Microsoft can also get their popular 1st party win32 apps in the store it increases windows store discover as those apps require updates via the store. The more eyeballs that hit the store the better.

Also, think enterprise. Making things like this Store apps gives more control to IT images. Pick the apps that are available or restricted, always secure, always up to date.  Pretty cool.

Tried to get WordPad and Fax/Scan - both say "Not Available".

You do know that they are already installed, right?

I don't think these apps are available to download yet per the last paragraph in the article.

Quoted from article above: "So when can you actually download these apps to your PC? A good guess is that Microsoft will make these apps available through the forthcoming Windows 10 Anniversary Update due later this summer."

I'd VERY MUCH want that they release at least Notepad and Paint for mobile, with the consistent windows 10 UI. And I hope that pen support will be coming to w10m by TH2. Sent from a black hole.

Notepad is amazing. Such a simple, light, resource-friendly application that is oh-so-handy. I do all of my programming in Notepad, which I have pinned to the taskbar and then use jump lists to open.

You should consider at least using Notepad++. It has code highlighting (numerous languages included, or download plugins for more), plus advanced search/replace and other nifty features. The biggest issue I find with Notepad is that it has exactly 1 undo step (Ctrl-Z) which is quite hopeless. Another (not lightweight) option to consider is Visual Studio Community Edition, which I often use just to edit general text files when I'm not using it for coding or html/css.

Have you looked at visual studio code?

I use Visual Studio almost every day for coding. C#, ASP.NET as well as HTML, CSS, JavaScript etc.

I rarely use Notepad anyway. I switched to NotepadX :D Posted with the Windows Central app for Windows 10 on HP 250 G1 notebook. It is a scary old monster, I think :D

Yeah its a great tool even on mobile platform....

My Favorite is "Notepad Next". It is Awesome!

UWP apps are great, except one.. Photos app. I wish it stayed as Win32 app on PC's. It's awkward that app is so slow on my PC which is a lot more powerful than a phone where its not that slow. Same with Groove Music App, I'm still using Media player. Some desktop apps really needs to as Win32 apps.

Yeah agreed, I still use Windows Media Player all the time for everything since it starts up and loads faster than Groove Music or Movies & TV. Same with Photos, I still use Windows Photo Gallery because again, it runs a lot faster. I like UWP as well but like you said, some apps need to remain Win32 desktop apps.

Well actually those apps just needs features from those old desktop apps. Photos app still lacks scream features from Windows Live Photo Gallery (gosh this is long), Groove Music lacks features like CD-related features (RIP, Burn, Playback), DLNA, Auto-Playlist, etc. that WMP have. When it comes to performance, yeah I hope they could be faster than what it is now, especially Photos app that there is still loading time when opening, they just removed the logo on loading screen just to give illusion that its faster. Though what it actually needs is to improve the performance of UWP runtime drastically so every Universal apps and modern apps launch and performs faster. Sent from Turing Machine

Yup, apps really need to get more optimized, speed is the key to success. Even AdobePS is opening pictures faster than Photos app.

Well I hope that they really have to do something about the runtime of UWP that can drastically improve the performance of every Universal and Modern apps. Preloading them on RAM doesn't make them inherently faster, it just an implementation to help them launch faster. The thing is, this requires OS update to improve the UWP. Sent from Turing Machine

Totally agreed. Adding more cores and more RAM memory will not make a significant difference to the app performance and loading. Then again, Windows 10 is being worked on everyday so it may be fixed in future. Thanks.

That's the problem I have with Store apps since the W8 launch. Almost all of them are painful slow to start compared to, as you said, more robust in terms of features, old Win32 programs. Even the Calculator in W10 is way slower to start compared to the classic one. I don't know why these apps are that slow to start, maybe it's a not well-sorted WinRT (the runtime, not the Windows RT OS) thing, but I simply can't understand why these apps are slower on a x86-64 PC than they are on the Snapdragons on Mobile, even considering they aren't that fast to start there in the first place. About the Photos app on PC, I gave up on that on the first day and used a registry hack to bring the good old Windows Photo Viewer back and set it as default. WPV is already on W10, it's just hidden I don't know why, but a simple registry hack I found on Bing brought it back.

If you compare Windows 10 apps' performance with those of 8, they are *drastically* faster in loading times. .NET Native is a new technology that makes the apps native, just like Win32 apps written in C++ as opposed to managed .NET apps. The technology wasn't integrated into all Store apps the last time I checked but should help improve performance significantly.

Hey, Someone please explain me. aren`t Qualcomm chipsets 32-bit processors? Why is there no support for these Win-32 apps?   

Completely different architecture.

When the article says 32-bit architecture, it should probably be more specific and say "Intel x86".  The Qualcomm chips you are referrng to may be 32-bit... but they are ARM-based which is an entirely different instruction set.

The article is confusing because it repeatedly says "32-bit" when it should have said Win32 and/or x86. The problem is not number of bits, the problem is APIs and CPU architectures.

Thats because some people here don't seem have a clue what win32 is. It does not help that the author describes these as not being windows mobile compatible because of their "32 bit architecture". Win32 is a windows api. And althought the name might suggest, it has nothing to do with bitness of the processor. You still programm against the win32 api in 64 bit windows. The name is probably due to historical reasons. The mentioned apps were actually also available for the original surface Rt and surface 2 wich run on ARM processors. Technically speaking, win32 and these programms already run on ARM hardware and don't seem to be tied to the x86 processor architecture. Edit: The win32 api was available on windows rt just as well. Office actually used it. MS just did not allow anyone on windows rt to use the win32 API. Prior to windows 8.1 the surface could be jailbroken and several win32 programms were ported to run on it.

Meanwhile developers can't work on converting their own apps because MS broke the converter in the last 2 Insider build :(

Sure they can, by skipping the new builds until it's fixed, per MS's recommendation.

Seriously don't laugh but I can't wait for Notepad.

Microsoft is truely on its way to show the world what mobile should actually be...not jus an amalgamation of social apps and games but better powerful tools that helps u achieve more on the go....with no real innovations coming from apple and iphone and ipad sales dipping....microsoft must cash in on this opportunity considering it has the advantage of major marketshare in pcs....and bring in the legacy apps into the store....

Still waiting for them to use Islandwood.

is gonna be Universal...??? if it so Windows Phone soon become Full Fledge Mini PC with Converted Games Like Halo 1 and 2.....and more...

Why convert these apps, lol. They are already built-in in Windows 10. It's not like they'll ever be updated. Or updated soon anyway. And something like the new Sticky Notes requires a complete rewrite.

Maybe to show and give developers a vision of how it's done so effortlessly and with almost zero changes to the actual app. This may also make Windows 10's installation media and ISOs smaller as all these apps are decoupled and installed after Windows, online.

Just rewatched the matrix, and I realised that we don't say "programs" anymore but "apps". R there any difference between those two or just people say apps because it sounds more modern? Btw I'm looking forward to UWP Paint "app":))

App is the stylish word for "application" which is what all programs are. You can thank Apple's marketing for the confusion.

Lol ok

The word app is just an abbreviation for the word application which was often used interchangeably with programs. That said, using the word app implies smaller more focused programs vs. a larger application/program such SQL Server or Word (in the past). That is where is becomes a bit blurry because now old programs like Word, Excel, etc. are positioning themselves as apps even though they are larger and more complicated than a typical app.

Mastermind. Fill the store with apps that no one can install as those on supported platform already have the apps.

Cool cool cool. The next logical step would be to turn them into true UWP apps by making them adaptable for different screen sizes as well as optimizing them for different interaction models like keyboard, mouse, touch, Xbox controller etc. As well as integrating it with other Microsoft services like One Drive, Office products, continuity between windows 10 devices, windows hello, cloud computing, native inking and sharing to name the few.

"they don't yet support Windows 10 Mobile due to their 32-bit architecture." That really spoils the whole game. Classic apps are anyways available on Windows 10. We needed them on phones because that's the easiest way to plug the app gap. But, guess what, that's not happening.

That's actually really cool! It's one of the most exciting bridges for me. :)

Good news!!

They need to start porting over their older PC games like Age of Empires to the Windows 10 Store with Xbox integration--really beef up the gaming presence of the Store.

I definitely agree with that. They should include anything published by them, such as Tentacles by the defunct Press Play. I was able to install it on my 950, but sadly it doesn't boot past the splash screen. But yeah, they must have a tonne of games they could convert... certainly no easy feat, but they definitely need to invigorate the store a bit more.

No not notepad with **** splash screened app

I hope they redo Calculator with Centennial. The new calculator app is awful. It works, but app focus and input focus is a big problem. Posted from Windows Central for Windows 10

so, pardon my ignorance of store apps, but does this mean we are going to get advertisements in wordpad now if it is a free app in the store?

Lol no developers have the option for advertisements. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

Reading the comment section it seems to me that some people complain from everything..

Ironically your comment actually seems like a complaint :)

People even complain about other people complaining :)

It's good to see some true progress something that will actually make a difference...well hopefully ;)

The question is, is why would you need to download these if they are installed by default like wordpad amd how will these work on mobile. Also does these apps support scaling for smaller device screens if so then we have found our Band-Aid for apps

Hopefully Notepad is missing as a UWP is coming

Microsoft should make this for Windows media player, so new PC users see how good this app is after all these years, much netter than Groove Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

I like this approach.  I hope they do this with apps like Calculator from Win 7, as I prefer that to the W 10 version.  I've already installed the Calculator via the  old-school way, but an official app would be preferred.

I would like to see Firefox jump on this. I hope Mozilla is trying to get their browser in the Windows app store.

Oh good, I can finally install WordPad on my device that already has WordPad installed as an integrated OS component.

I hope this leads to a slimmed down install for the next Windows 10 version. While I think that some of those old apps really need a re-write as true UWP apps, maybe this is just the first step. Once they are in the Store, people could un-install or rate the apps and Microsoft should be able to replace them with new versions more easily.

I won't take centennial seriously until you can run these apps on mobile.

And soon will be cancel as usual

sub.