Belfiore crushes dreams: 9/15 isn't Mango day

Update: See our follow up to this story with some new information.

Microsoft's Joe Belfiore just chimed in on Twitter noting that today isn't Mango day.  Still, we can't help but think of all the odd coincidences today--official Foursquare app, Flixster, Rocket Riot, Taiwan getting an update, Microsoft calling for devs to update their asap, the last day of BUILD '11 in California and more that something wasn't suppose to happen around this time.

However, Joe knows what Joe knows so we have to take him at his word. So our chances for a Mango release or announcement today are not good. But maybe...


Reader comments

Belfiore crushes dreams: 9/15 isn't Mango day


While disapointed for sure regarding the non-announcement from Microsoft, I can't get to pissed. No one from Microsoft (With authority) ever said the 15th was the day except a few 'trusted sources' which were reported on blogs ... and while it seemed logical that the closing day of the Build Conference would have been a great 'Steve Jobs' moment for a surprise Mango release, some dominos clearly did not fall into place correctly. Thankfully my patience for Mango has not diminished like some of the entitled 'Don't care how, I want it now!' Veruca's of the world who posted below with their hollow threats of jumping ship to ios or android. Just remember people, Microsoft has clearly said that their full force is behind the mobile arena and I take them at their word. when they want to get it done, it usually does. The Xbox started off slow, but is now the dominate force in the gaming industry. Yes their are others, but none can compare. Microsoft and Windows Phone will become the dominate player, even if it takes a year or 2 longer.Still, one can only wonder where we would be if Bill were still in charge over Ballmer.

Seriously? If there's anyone using shady tactics it's the bloggers who post all this speculation and rumor about release dates just to get page hits.

in one of his tweets he highlights the word "START" of fall, which means there's no guarentee that it will be out on 9/23.

i am disappointed micro$oft is leaving us in the dark, why not be open about whats going on :/ i regret my switch to wp7. i truly do

i mean don't get me wrong. if they roll out the mango update and keep us in the light and tell us whats going on i would be as happy as could be, but that's not the case. and i dnot think its right that they made a video about TANGO, when we have yet to see MANGO D:

@blitzkriegg9x...What don't you understand? Fall encompasses roughly a three month period starting September 23rd - Mango will be released sometime within that 3 month period!If you were given a specific date, and Microsoft and/or your carrier didn't meet that date, you'd be pissed, right? Possibly suffering a heart attack?Stop expecting a specific date and just accept that Mango will be released sometime in Fall/Autumn. Expecting otherwise is just going raise your blood pressure!

They are not leaving you in the dark. They say Fall so Fall it will be. Apple doesn't even give you that much and Android does exactly what Microsoft does. Its called patience people I want it as bad as everyone else but it only took them one year to be where Android and Apple are now so we can at least give them this three month period. I guarantee you will not be regretting your switch once you receive the update. If anything i am pissed Sprint has not announced any new win phones coming to them because I want to leave T-Mobile ASAP. But refuse to leave my HD7 for anything not up to par with the Titan or new Samsungs coming out. Would wait for Nokia BUT i want a 4.3+ screen with great resolution. Nokia probably staying with the 3.8 size screens or 4.0. I watch alot of netflix so i need a big screen.

If you are disgusted by Micro "dollar sign" Soft so much switch to webos blackberry ios or android those guys are always swift with their updates and deliver on the day web bloggers speculate on not the actual roadmap they have been planning on for a whole year.if you can't tell I'm being sarcastic because your complaining is ridiculous.You aren't in the dark they said fall they can't pin a date yet because not all the carriers are finish testing the update yet. Nobody takes the time to consider how complex it is to do a update like this you can't compare it to apple because they don't have other manufactures products with their own issues to deal with. The only thing close is android and Microsoft is the peak of excellence compared to the shoddy update process google has running right now. Stop whining its not that big a deal you can wait a few more days.yeah I said it

Seriously? These guys don't read any tech blogs? They MUST know that all blogs thought Sept 15 was the day so why wait until now to say no. Just give us a date, I am done with these BS Spring/Fall deadlines. Say a date and if you miss it so be it but all this guessing is just pointless. We know they load balanced the rollout last time and many carriers have signed off so let those get going already

@polychromenz...If all of the blogs thought that September 15th was the day, then it's the tech blogs' fault - Microsoft never gave a specific date. September 1st, September 15th - both 'wishful thinking' or an attempt to prophesy, by many blogs and WP fans.

Agreed but the real point is not the missed date. It's not an issue when we get it. The issue is the communication from MS. They say Fall and wont pick a date. They know full well that the tech blogs are rampant with a date (this time Sept 15) and they wait until last minute on that date to say no. They could have commented earlier, like 2-3 weeks ago but didnt which leaves everyone "assuming" that they hoped for 15th but didnt commit and then missed it. This way they hope to look like good guys who never broke a promise - which is true technically, but most techies are more cynical than that. MS need to own the issue because another nodo with a string of perceieved missed deadlines and then issues will kill WP7. Don't get me wrong I love WP7 and I am passionate about it. Plus I already have Mango (I have a developer agreement) so I could care less about the delivery of it. BUT precisely because I am passionate I don't want the same delays and confusion we had with NODO.It's not about dates as such, it's a lack of clear, honest and open communication with a community desperate for them to succeed.If they dont trust us enough to be up front with us, why would we trust them?As for the blogs, they don't make up these dates for fun, they are based on comments and info from a bunch of sources and once they hit a certain mass they become accepted, I feel that this is partly because MS keep quiet. Had they said 3 weeks ago, don't know why you guys are saying 15th Sept we are only aiming for fall this would not be an issue. And if they are NOT reading the tech blogs then we are doomed because it means they could care less about our opinions.Sorry for the long reply :)

This is exactly the problem. MS is jerking with the people who have actually laid down their hard earned money to support this new platform. The PR team around WP7 should be fired and strung up by their lanyards. There was a date, it was WIDELY reported and accepted as true in the media. A company like MS with a large PR arm knows this and it's their job to manage and inform this. MS allowed this date to be communicated and promoted everywhere without refuting it. They were trying to make hay from the story and capture mindshare in the blogosphere. Now, it's come and gone and they've said nothing and there's a deserved backlash. MS has control over this, they chose to favor the cheap publicity over actually informing their customers. I'm getting disgusted with MS. I've defended them over and over, first they jerked us around with NoDo and now they are doing it again with Mango. It might be announced on the 23rd, but I've lost any faith that I'm liable to get it before my phone's contract is up.

---------------------------------------------------First Day of Fall Autumn Begins with the September EquinoxSeptember brings fall in the Northern Hemisphere. The astronomical start of the fall season is marked by the positions of Earth and the sun.September brings the last day of summer and the first day of fall. Here is a list of the precise moments and dates when fall arrives for the northern hemisphere: •September 23, 2007 at 5:51 am EDT •September 22, 2008 at 11:44 am EDT •September 22, 2009 at 5:18 pm EDT •September 22, 2010 at 11:09 pm EDT •September 23, 2011 at 5:04 am EDT •September 22, 2012 at 10:49 am EDT---------------------------------------------------September 23rd for the next guess anyone?

yea i'm not 12, i'm done with word games. i want reliability and honesty. i have lost what little respect i was gaining for micro$oft, Joe, and mango all together

Apple plays this same game. The difference being that Apple has delivered in the past. Microsoft had a year full of disappointment. It's tough to put stock in these vague timelines by the folks at Microsoft. Apple will send out an invite a week or two prior to the launch of iOS5, Microsoft will make us guessing till the end. And.... it will be a rolling release. Which means none of us will know when we'll receive it. Sure, Klaus in Weimar will receive it on the October 16th, but the rest of us will continue our vigil.

*THE* difference is that Apple has one line of phones (pretty much only one phone technically) that they fully control and a minor handful of carriers. Compare that to WinPhone and you'll see the logistical nightmare that causes. I don't blame them.If you need instant gratification, I don't know what to tell you.

I hate this bullshit, release tons and tons of videos previewing mango. Allow developers access to Mango months ahead of others. Release app's and zune updates for Mango, But leave our mouths watering waiting for it. Not to mention the Beta for Mango is near perfect I dont know what its taking so long to release it, its just complete bullshit.

we need to band together and get a petition that says we will switch to another smartphone if we don't see some answers. and get a bunch of people to sign it.

Maybe they believe a little bit of hype will withstand the iPhone5 onslaught. Unfortunately, the 65 of us looking forward to the release of Mango won't make a dent in the Apple tsunami.

then we need to go bigger! everyone post on his twitter, everyone make youtube videos voice out to the other wp7blogs!!!this is DUMB

Winter starts on December 23rd, keep that date in mind. Fall ends, Winter begins. If you expect anything but December 22nd, you'll be disappointed.

also he said people shouldn't jump to conclusions, if he/ms feel that way, then be more transparent to people, instead of trying to tease peopleit's not making anyone feel any better about owning a wp7 by advertising all the "excellent" new features for months and months ffsthere's so many people out there that will just follow the crowd and get an iphone4/5 instead of being able to see what wp7 and "mango" has to offer.MS / Belfiore/ Watson have had more than enough time to tell people before today, that 9/15 was not the planned date.It's not good advertising teasing people, and letting them believe "rumours" (even those that supposedly come from sources in the know).rant over, I'm going to bed now (it's the 16th Sept in UK now)

Really tired of this "Fall" **** Just give me a date. is it that hard with all of the leaked Mango goodness out there? Give us a date and we will all shut up or go get a leaked version thats been out for weeks......

tis is why I don't bring my hope up...when rumor said 15th I'm expecting at least 2 weeks from than.

NoDo was something 1st quarter? And that was a total bullshit release. Now again, this "Fall" **** again, I think he miss typed Fall for Failed.Probably won't see it until end of November, and then carriers will start pushing it out in late December. They will find out something screwed up and delay it for another quarter. Rise and repeat.

Get over it. If they are done now and only having the carriers testing it and they don't release it until December 22nd AT THE LATEST, it will most likely be a flawless roll out. Who cares if you have to wait a few months? It's still a great phone even without mango.

I'll get over it when they stop throwing out Q1, Q2, Spring of 2016, etc and everyone get a flawless update.

Gotta say MS dropped the PR ball on this one. They KNEW the 15th rumor has been floating around and being pushed hard, and waited until the end of the day to say "No?" That's garbage.Still want this update, and still love WP. Would like to say I have the same admiration for MS's PR team.

They shouldn't need to say "No" to something they literally had nothing to do with. You didn't see Belfiore standing up on a stage saying "Oh hey guys, mango's gonna be coming out on the day that is 10+5." This was pure speculation from some blogs. I didn't really believe it...I had hoped it would be released but I wouldn't cry like a little girl when it wasn't.

he did said Fall from the get-go...so I don't know why so many people upset over the rumor date. I don't think it will be drag out like NoDo.

it already is my friend. look how long the leaks have been out, how many videos are out. HECK, there even talking about TANGO, LONG before mango is out!its past due

all those wow videos are to attract new customers. I doubt MS hold back Mango release on purpose...it only hurts them.

Can someone explain to me why everyone is so annoyed. MS has always stated that Mango would release sometime in the FALL. Just because blogs began to speculate that Mango would release today or tomorrow doesn't mean that it's true. If you regret it so much go back to Apple or Android which last time I checked do exactly the same thing.

how hard would it have been for Joe Belfiore to tweet on the 14th that the update would NOT be happening on the 15th and just say the roll out will commence from 23rd etc

Considering this was the last day of BUILD, something tells me the 15th WAS a day for at least an announcement, but things changed at the last minute. Clearly Foursquare and Flixster were tipped on the 15th as was Weave who published basically at 12:01am.

Good point. There was obviously alot going on the past 36-48 hours. I'm surprised that Joe B. waited so long for his tweet. MS knew the enthusiasts were expecting some type of announcement today. It just seemed like it fell through.

the amount of butthurt on the internet today is amazing. MSFT NEVER said anything about it releasing today. People going off of SPECULATION from places like wmpu and other tech sites with ZERO confirmation or official sources are dumb. Why anyone would falsely get their hopes up and then be pissed off that MSFT missed a made-up, unconfirmed date is hilarious.You'll get it when you get it.

i'm not pissed that its not out, i'm pissed at the lack of communication from micro$oft. will it hurt them so much if they just let us in on things?

Well, can they say when AT&T will finally get done with testing? Can they say when other carriers will get done with their testing?What more do you want? They said fall, they're waiting on carriers to get done testing. There is no real set date yet until things get settled on the carrier front. They can either do what happened last time, sporadic release with many waiting for the carriers to get done with that testing, or they can do one big release at the same time.There are so many factors to be considered. And dealing with burdening rumors put together by unreliable sources and blogs makes it difficult. If anybody is to blame for holding onto those hopes and dreams, its yourself. I know I was frantically checking my phone this morning for that update notification, but then I realized...why did I believe those *RUMORS*?

because joe made twitter posts about updating mango apps an whatnot instead of posts about how its just a rumor. now tell me that was not intentional =.= all i'm asking is for THEM to tell us what you told us so we can be settle with knowing that we are indeed going to get the update

Well, MS could have launched a "Where's my Update" page like they did with NoDo to get the ball rolling...i think that's what people are talking about with regards to communication.

I'd imagine that ya know ... when they begin updating, that the "where's my update" will come into play again. But everyone knows it's close with Joe and Brandon telling people to update apps. But for people to go overboard and "omg i'll never get anything msft again!!1" is absurd. Practice a little patience.

I assumed that WMU would be used for every update. Hasn't been updated since 7-19. Also curious as to what feature of mango that the impatient crowd has to have RIGHT NOW?

Every day I wish I had direct LinkedIn and Twitter integration. That is just one of many features that we are looking forward to.

Seriously, whats with all the hate? They said fall from the start. Its still fall. We're not entitled to anything else, **** we're not even entitled to that. How about when its ready, its out? Of course once its out, most people will **** and moan regardless but still.


"MANGO WILL BE OUT AROUND THE SAME TIME AS iOS 5 And Nastya$sICE CREAM SANDWICH IF NOT BEFORE SO JUST CALM DOWN,!!"Absolutely fantastic line. Thanks for making me laugh. :D

as much as I hate to say it, WP7/mango release will be completely overshadowed by the iPhone 5 / numerous android handset releases as MS really can't market it properly.there's no mention on the o2 site that the Titan or Radar exist (not even in the coming soon section). Plus o2 are completely incompetent when it comes to WP7 (I got my HD7 on launch day last october and they didn't know anything about it in the shop until they checked "out the back").

I loved that Dumb and Dumber clip. Most of the dumb and dumber comments above, not so much.I'm not even sure a release date announcement would've made sense, considering BUILD is a developer event and WP7 is a consumer device. That's why the Mango app submission tweets made sense. I would guess they'd give developers time to update their apps so that, when Mango does get released, we're not having to wait for weeks or months for apps to make the most of Mango.I want official Mango on my phone as much as anyone, but I picked WP for a reason; it fits me the best out of all that's out there and this news doesn't change that.

They've said Fall from the get go. Dreams aren't being crushed. He's simply reminding people that it isn't technically Fall. If anyone feels like they're being jipped then their expectations are too high. I am patiently waiting. :)

O2 in Germany and Swisscom in Switzerland already confirmed that Mango won't come before October. They have already approved the update for their networks "along time ago but MS isn't ready yet". O2 even said that it probably will be November...

...There is so much stupid on this site. So much misdirected rage, so much lack of understanding, so, so much.blitzkriegg9x: What ELSE do you want? Do you want a Twitter feed with every little development? Do you know how ridiculous that is?jrmadail: Go buy your iPhone already and stop whining here.Everyone else: Please stop taking rumors as truth, no matter how realistic they seem. This is the cell business, on multiple carriers. They CAN NOT figure an exact date. That's not how this works.Just chill out. Sheesh.

I've been running Mango RTM on my Focus for a month now, works well too. The stem of the problem remains with the OEM's and carriers. MS needs to step in and smooth out (reads: hurry the **** up) the testing process. The fundamentals of the OS are not significantly changed so why the wait? OEM's want their specific devices to run the way they want them to and carriers want their "crapware" verified. This is all a process that should be completed within a month. If something goes awry (device specific or software) a simple and quick update occurs. Such as should have been the case when 7392 was pushed...but then again carriers such as AT&T decided to take their own approach, as in an absence of one. All in all, a better line of communication (leadership) is needed between MS and their partners. Just my opinion...

I hope it's sooner than later. This is becoming like NoDo. They need to update the phone sooner than later. They need to catch up. This is only catching up the phone half way and with their delays by the time iPhone 5 and another version of android comes out the features will be yesterday's news. I wish they would have better advertising as well. It's not even building up suspense. So far I've never even seen any commercials. There aren't any new phones coming to other carriers besides At&t. They need to pick up the pace.

This is NOT like NoDo. That whole thing had many anounced release dates. Here we have ONE wide timeframe: Fall. And we know that the Gen II devices with Mango will be out around the same time: Fall. Remember that the Arrive on Sprint and the Trophy on Verizon (NoDo devices) were released before the pre-NoDo devices received NoDo.

Are people seriously bitching this much? FFS folks, MS never said the 15th was release day. Do they need to play a tune for every stupid internet bloggers 'leaked info' rumor bullshit? Get real.You know Mango is huge. You know it brought much more than you expected, and all within the first year of the platform being released. Its coming. Stop assuming everything joe jabroni the blogger says and wait for official news. Just look forward to a great update to an amazing platform. or...Move the **** on to a different one if a few weeks are killing you that bad. I for one would rather wait another month and stick to the platform I like, and believe in for the future. I won't go to one I enjoy less because they aren't catering to some moron bloggers assumptions on a release date.

I'm not upset that it's not here today! Just disappointed! But not upset and going to switch to a different phone, that's just goofy, WP7 is the absolutely best smartphone one can get!! And I am going to wait anyway for AT&T to release a TITAN and get that phatty in the hand! Will have to buy it off contract though, already working OT!! =)

To the impatient crowd that has to have Mango RIGHT NOW-what feature of Mango do you have to have RIGHT NOW will keep your world from imploding?

This is the same argument that always comes up when it comes to things like this. People want the next best thing now.A few months ago I just about bought a 2011 F-150 instead of the 2010 because the '11 has a slightly cooler looking speedometer and rain-sensing wipers.That's just the way it is. Human nature.

@zulu208...Really? If you needed it, why did you buy a WP7 device, as these features were not available at the time of your purchase.If you NEED them, then install the Mango beta.

I just think everybody who is flaming Microsoft needs to relax. This September 15th was just speculation. Even though there was a lot of coincidental evidence that made it seem like it was going to be the date, it was still just speculation. I am as impatient as anyone about this update, I have had my HD7 since it came out. But even without 7.5, I love my Windows Phone and am definitely not considering buying an iphone or android phone just because some speculation wasnt true. If you really need mango, flash a beta 7720 build on your phone. Me, I will wait for the official update. Or get the HTC Titan if it comes out for T-mobile. I can only hope...

A lot of comments are saying that Microsoft isn't communicating. I think the problem is that you must not be listing. They have said fall. While not down to the day, it is a time frame.For those that want to go to another phone from all of this. Take a look. What has Apple said about iOS5, when is that coming out? Apple has said Fall.When is Android/ICS coming out? Google has said October/November.Looks like the other guys are about as specific as Microsoft is being. I hate to wait to, but some comments hear make it sound like Microsoft isn't being forth coming with information, when they are saying just as much as the competition is saying. And if I recall, Microsoft has said Mango will be shipping this fall for some time now, we have only gotten the official word about iOS5 and ICS release time frame more recently.

So I know this does not belong here but I am very excited so I wanted to share this I just got the perfect run achievement on gravity guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My heart was pounding so fast! I can also say I got it in under 10 hours because I don't have that achievement yet. My gamertag is johnoralex if you don't believe me. I also have the ufo achievement on doodle jump so I guess I have 2 impossible windows phone achievemnts. Back to mango I really wish it would hurry!!!!!! Though, I am patient enough to wait a few more weeks I mean I did wait for my trophy to release on verizon.

As someone that upgraded to RTM Mango about 2 weeks ago, most of you need to CHILL. Mango's cool and all, but you are WAY overhyping it. It's an improvement to WP7, not an overhaul. You're not going to get that same feeling that you got when you used WP7 for the first time. Sure, I keep finding cool stuff, but the really cool stuff will be when devs REALLY wrap their creative minds around all of the new API's and features and implement them into their apps accordingly. In fact, one dev I spoke with says he's not doing anything until Mango is available to most/all because it will make the current version of his app locked out of future updates.So again, chill, enjoy your phone and know a good update is coming but this update is not Jesus returning. It's just an update to a great smartphone OS. Chill.

They wont give a release date, its all about anticipation. And for those who feel the need to rant about due dates need to take a chill. What is honestly so significant about today as opposed to a month from today? Not a damn thing, the world will still spin, and the US debt will continue to rise. Can the release of Mango possibly stop either of those? No. Just be patient."They arent communicating w/ us." - Who cares, when you call the tech team they answer your questions pertaining to your device right?"WP7 is pissing me off." - Why? Because they prefer to keep the due date under wraps? They dont have to say anything, be grateful that mango has even came this fast after NoDo.Another thing, out of the 7 people that have WP7 (including my friends and family), guess what? Only 2 of them know about Mango. Multiply that by an entire nation. Needless to say, less than half of WP7 users care or even know about mango. My mom doesnt know about mango until I install the update for her, even then she still probably wouldnt know.Just saying people, be patient and try not to be so critical. Keep the faith in WP7. GOW3 comes out on the 20th, I think that will sustain me until the update.

I was hoping it was coming today, but without an official date I sort of knew it wasnt coming. Who here doesnt think Microsoft reads these sites/blogs and 9/15 was plastered on all of them. Yet they said nothing. 99% of the people here thought there was a good chance we were going to get Mango today.Balmer says WP7 isnt selling like they thought it would but he's "not worried", but the people who love the devices like me should be worried about that kind of attitude. Mango isnt revolutionary, its simply bringing WP7 up to where all the other OS's are. Multitasking etc. They should be breaking backs trying to release it sooner rather than later.I sure hope Microsoft isnt trying to play with iOS 5 release date (oct 10 or 15?) because thats just a game they will lose. No one can argue that.I love my windowsphone. I think its the best OS out. But Microsoft needs to show me they understand the sense of urgency they need to have. But incase they dont, I still have my iPhone 4.BTW MS fanboys (not saying everyhere here is) are just as bad as apple's. Lots of thumbs down for ppl who are speaking their mind.

Hey guys, I know we've reported on the speculation and have included most rumours, but we should all take note of something special here. Carriers are beginning to complete the testing as we speak, hopefully this will include the likes of AT&T soon. While I am in awe of Taiwan, I would prefer to have all carriers ready before Microsoft gives the green light to prevent what happened with NoDo.While we're all excited about the proposed release dates, seriously we're as excited as you are, it shouldn't come as a surprise that it has turned out to be false. It's not Microsoft's fault as many have mentioned, they had no arm in the rumours and speculation but at the end of the day it was news and reached a number of mainstream sites and flooded social networking, to me that's allowing the mass of users advertise the platform without Microsoft's help. Remember that 'the fall' is still the target area so we have a few months left until it becomes "late", but I think we all know that Microsoft are determined to get this update right and released as soon as possible.

I don't know if it means anything on when we will get Mango, but on september 28th there is a event i Norway called Mobile Trends 2011 where Windows Phone will be launched officially in Norway. It would feel a little strange if Mango isn't available then.

If WPcentral (and other WP7-centric sites) didn't spread rumors about this release date, then everyone would be happy today. We read details about the new update since June (or earlier). We even read reviews about Mango apps!!! Yes! apps that we can't even load on our devices if don't have leaked/untested/untrusted buggy roms. Is this good for WP7? Promotion is a good thing, but there must be a measure.

I think this is ridiculous. Just because we see in the wild, it's due on Sept. 15th? Whoever started the rumour, deserves a pat on the back. He (or She) suckered a lot of people, and got their hopes up. I expect to see it by mid-October to the end of October.

The 15th was pure conjecture on the part of the Internet population and with respect to that I have no problem with MS.That however doesn't mean I'm not frustrated with how convoluted the whole roll out process appears to be. I specifically bought an unlocked Omnia 7 so that I could receive updates when MS deemed they were ready for my device and irrespective of carrier testing. NODO was a disater for my specific scenario!! As far as I can tell, that date is passed. Mango is being distributed officially to end customers in Taiwan (in store only I know and HTC), Final ROMs for my Omnia7 seem to be in the wild.I for one would appreciate some info on what's behind this apparent delay, maybe MS is waiting for a critical mass of carrier sign off before release, maybe they missed a critical install window within their own organisation. I don't think we'll ever get that detail and I don't think I'm entitled to it either.

I think it only appears convoluted because we're on the outside looking in and we care. We check blogs, follow rumors, read into news leaks and actions, speculate. We want it, so we hope. We're staring through a window that's frosted and broken and trying to make out what's inside and can't clearly do so, so we fill in the gaps with our imagination. But for anyone else, it's no big deal. It happens when it happens.

I had 3 updates when I first got my WP7. It took 45 minutes. With Mango and the 500+ updates. That should take days. lol. I am actually kind of looking forward to seeing how long it takes to update. It's sad, but I love my phone.

The problem lies with MS not pushing the carriers to get it out. MS had the chance to capitalize on Mango getting out and all the press that comes along with it. Now the problem will be they are getting too close to the next iPhone and iOS release next month and that will be all that makes news anywhere for weeks. They had a chance to get phones and the updates out there earlier to try and steel some thunder but as usual they squander the opportunity.