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Groove Music failed because of Microsoft's smartphone missteps

Earlier this week, Microsoft announced that it is terminating the Groove Music Pass streaming service later this year. Going back to Zune (and even further with MSN Music), the move puts the proverbial nail in Microsoft's long-failed attempt to become a preferred service for online music.

While the cost of maintaining a large music catalog is the ultimate reason for the death of the service, it was the failure of Microsoft's phone division that was the main catalyst.

Music is mobile

Spotify is the world's leading music streaming service, and its demographics reveal quite a bit. The most prominent proponents of Spotify are millennials with a massive skew towards a younger audience. The single most significant use case for streaming music is on smartphones, while in the car, going for a run, or while traveling. Both of those data points are problems for Microsoft.

Another failure for Microsoft is its inability to launch and maintain a successful smartphone platform despite numerous attempts. This youth-focused, mobile-orientated music world is very different from the Napster and WinAmp days back when digital music was still primarily consumed on the PC.

Assuming, however, for a moment that the company back in 2010 did have a winning formula for smartphones, things would be very different today. Even if Microsoft only had 20 percent or 30 percent of the smartphone market, that equals millions of Groove Music users just by it being the default service – no different than how Apple has iTunes or Google uses Google Music.

Sure, Microsoft eventually put Groove on iOS and Android, but the competition was too stiff and the move too late. Users are more likely to default to iTunes, Spotify, or even Amazon's growing music business over Groove.

Once Microsoft ended its phone ambitions, that move effectively ended Groove Music as a service. While Groove lives on as a PC and Xbox music player, the percentage of users, who will – for hours on end – listen to and engage with Groove would be minimal without a mobile strategy.

None of this is conjecture, either, because numerous people familiar with the decision to end Groove Music Streaming – and sales of music in the Windows Store – told us that it was the lack of a mobile platform that created the situation.

Groove didn't innovate fast enough

Microsoft is too often a company that creates a product that never catches fire. Meanwhile, its competition comes along, outpaces and out markets it, resulting in the demise of the category.

There is an embarrassing litany of Microsoft's failures to succeed in the consumer space. For instance, smart watches (Spot and Band), tablets (Windows RT), motion (Kinect), smartphones (Windows Phone and Windows Mobile), smart tags (Tag), and now music (Zune, Nokia Music, Xbox Music and Groove).

Microsoft seems almost cursed by its failures, yet it still has Windows – the most dominant PC OS on the planet.

Groove Music and Spotify

Groove Music and Spotify (Image credit: Windows Central)

What bothers people about Groove the most is that it was good. Starting in 2016, the rapid innovation around Groove and its Universal Windows Platform (UWP) app were satisfying. The Groove team seemed to be firing on all cylinders, adding new features, improving performance and leading in app design.

Naysayers will correctly point out, however, that all Microsoft was really trying to do was recreate what it had already done with Zune Music back in 2010.

Indeed, this constant rebooting and restarting of Microsoft's music ambitions eerily match the trajectory of Windows phone and mobile over the last decade. And like smartphones, the continuous restarts meant that what was eventually Groove Music never had the stability to mature and grow.

This punctuated development cycle let companies like Spotify walk in and with a focused mission own the market. Spotify did not have to reboot its platform numerous times or even once. Things like a family pass – a seemingly essential and obvious feature – never materialized for Groove, despite the high profile requests from its users.

In the end, the failure of Groove falls 100 percent on Microsoft, which blew many key moments The most severe one, however, is its smartphone fiasco, something it still has not solved.

Movies & TV is safe ... for now

Perhaps the most damaging aspect of the end of Groove and Microsoft's music service is the impact on its other services. Since the Groove news broke, users have been flummoxed and worried that the other shoe would soon drop, and the company will announce that the Movies & TV service is ending too.

After all, if the company is ending sales of music, why not just end movies and rentals too? Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon are all big players in the market and Microsoft is not. And yet, Microsoft has been at it a long time.

Here, however, things are different. Microsoft has Xbox, and between the Xbox 360 and now three tiers of the Xbox One, it has a viable presence in the number one spot where people watch movies: the living room.

While some people watch TV shows and rent films on their phones, the majority do not. The family TV is still king.

In talking with some people at Microsoft, I was told that Movies & TV does quite well, and the dynamics of maintaining that catalog (versus the one for music) are vastly different. Of course, it would seem even smarter if Microsoft Movies & TV was also on Roku, Apple TV, or even Amazon Fire TV, but reasons for that situation are not as evident.

Microsoft has a long battle to fight to convince consumers that it is committed to its services. While OneDrive, Cortana, Movies & TV, and even Xbox seem like safe bets, this new Microsoft appears to be very fond of hitting refresh.

There is a point where too much renewal can be a dreadful thing, reflecting instability and chaos, not leadership. No one wants to support a company that at the first sign of stiff competition cowers in the corner and throws in the towel, even when it had an initial advantage.

Satya Nadella

Satya Nadella (Image credit: Windows Central)

Consumers are OK with adopting a new product, but what they value the most are consistency and commitment. Microsoft needs to try much harder on both fronts if it ever wants to be taken seriously in the consumer market.

Finally, I hear this Spotify-Microsoft partnership goes much further than we have been told. The idea that engineers on the Groove team focused on music and streaming may now be working on a proper Spotify UWP app – maybe even with OneDrive support – does not seem farfetched. We'll have to see if that pans out over the next few months.

Daniel Rubino is the Executive Editor of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft here since 2007, back when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, Microsoft Surface, laptops, next-gen computing, and arguing with people on the internet.

  • Very true. Like I always say Mobile is everything now, for Microsoft to be out just doesn't make sense to me, but damn, I blame the bald Indian man at the top of the chain. What bothers me is that a new CEO will come in 5 years time and re-initiate everything making Microsoft always late and moving back and forth between technological decisions.
  • Which is exactly the reason I'm moving to Apple for mobile. At least they support their products for more than 2 years. Whether or not their technology is cutting edge, it is stable.
  • I like my iPhone.  I don't love it, but it works and has everything you could ever need.  And the Microsoft apps are solid.  There is something to be said for knowing your phone platform is stable and your investments will last.
  • same here. purchased the SE a year ago. almost everyday I find myself chuckling at how litmited I was with my M8. haven't looked back since. the way MS treats their products and fans, why would you?
  • If you haven't moved yet, I'd seriously consider android.  When my 950xl craps out, I've already decided that is where I am going.  I think the iPhone is a dead man walking and will be a marginal player in the USA like it is now in most of the world.  If you are "hitting refresh" think hard about investing in an IOS device.  I think Android will power the world, including half the desktops, in 5 years
  • Really, the iPhone is a dead man walking?  On what basis?  Certainly not sales numbers. Besides, I don't think we should be cheering on the possibility of another tech monopoly.  We need competition and variety, and while Android is certainly more varied than Windows, this would effectively give Google absolute control over the mobile space.  That's not healthy.
  • Oops. i guess you went to an iPhone. Well look at the trends and just think about what Google did in less than 10 years. And that was from a dead stop. Few young  people use any Apple services anymore. At least none of mine or their friends.   They useiohones but not much more.  Sales in the USA are already down around 30% and Android is more than double that. How long do you think it will take before it goes the way of blackberry and WINPhone?  I give it 10 years max
  • This is true, but let's not kid ourselves. Young people who use IPhones will not use a Windows PC. They instead will get either a MacBook or (for those who don't have much) an Android tablet or a PC running ChromeOS. Chromebooks and MacBooks have great productivity. That is what makes Windows dead weight, especially up in the Northeast US.
  • Please! Android tablets are pathetic, and ChromeOS isn't for everyone. Windows laptops and 2-in-1s are now better perceived by every audience thanks to the Surface family. Although the obvious way for these users is a MacBook.
  • Android is a solid choice however like most tech you need Nougat at least and on a mid to high end device. No point buying a $200 Android phone and expecting the world.
  • What a nonsense. Android will take over desktop in 5 years? Desktop is not about snapschat and some half baked android apps. PC is a much more powerful tool that android will NEVER overtake. You clearly use PC only for facebook and games. Otherwise you would not be writing such nonsense. Besides, android is so poor on security it has no chance to even win tablet market. Latest stats show that android on tablets is declining. Also you must be living in poor country where people can't afford iPhones. Because in my country it is hard to find youth using android at all. You can even see 10 years old kids having iPhones. I am not fan of Apple, nor Android. But it's a fact that iOS is most secure and most reliable platform out there. There are hundreds of millions of vulnerable android devices out there because manifacturers stop releasing updates after a year. I have both android tablet and iPad. Believe it or not, I have not picked up android tablet in a year. It is such a **** of an OS.
  • Linux is fighting Windows for decades and is constantly losing the battle. It is a decent OS. Not as pretty as Windows but could suit needs to most non-advanced users. Yet nobody uses it. At this point Windows is unbeatable. As Microsoft is developing ARM version that will only make it even stronger on PC field. By the way, even Google is moving away from Android. In 2-3 years Google will release its own OS. They have announced development of their own OS last year.
  • Exactly. Mobile is Freekin the bee's knees, and no tech company can ignore it.. Well, MS isn't ignoring it, but their products would be better featured on a mobile device that was made EXCLUSIVELY for them, without the competition of iDroid.... For example, nobody is gonna use Edge on an iPhone. Nobody significant, at least... By not offering, and marketing to death, an extremely appealing Surface Phone,,, MS is setting Bing up for the chopping block next.
    Some things are just more easily done on a smartphone, with two hands. Smartphones can be quicker at specific task, such as internet searching. Does MS realize that people, while using thier Windows PC, will stop, and pick up thier smartphone to perform a search online? Lol. They do this even with thier browser on thier laptop up, right in front of them.😂
    If there is no default MS service, exclusive mobile device, how can services like Bing survive? (Apple just switched to Google for iOS search🙄)....
    MS has to send Surface Ultramoble or they will be forever stuck in the 90's, no matter how nice Windows 10 desktop is...... SMDH
  • "Does MS realize that people, while using thier Windows PC, will stop, and pick up thier smartphone to perform a search online" You may do, many others do no such thing. When the mouse is in your hand and the edge icon is on the taskbar at the bottom of the desktop, nobody with a modicum of common sense reaches for a phone! 
  • Mouse?😂😂😂
    Judging by your profile picture you were around good, and well, when MS was founded.
    Definitely not talking about you, and your opinion most likely isn't a valid representation of people age 18-40 in 2017..
    Thanks for chiming in, though.💜😍💜😍
  • Wow. Absolutely no reason for such a ********* response.
  • 💜😂
  • Yeah quite rude to respond to an older fella like that. No respect you degenerate
  • Lol. I am a degenerate. The kicker is that he's probably my age. ****, I'm 40. I have no room to talk, so It's not that bad..
    And, wait a minute.. Who are you calling "older"??😬😛😆
  • Sorry, but if I'm in front of my Surface and it's on, I'd definitely do a online search on it rather than waste time turning my phone on, starting the browser, typing and waiting for the results to come up, while all of this would've been MUCH faster and convenient on the PC. I don't if you're aware, but PCs are made to be multifuncional.
  • kids do. I've seen it.
  • Exactly, we just open a new window and search.
  • No, depending on what they're doing, and how you're using the information they're searching for (especially immages), people switch between thier smartphone, and PC.. There's no denying it. I sit, and watch it all day long.......
    Trust me, without mobile Bings usage takes a nose dive, and if you don't believe me go look at some metrics from the last few years of "retrenchment"....
  • Windows PC sales have fallen like a rock. Windows as a whole is in danger of falling to third behind Chrome/Android and Mac/IOS. With holiday season here, people (especially those with either an IPhone or IPad) will go to a MacBook because the newer (2014 or later) models can handle things like messages from IMessage, something Windows PCs cannot do without Windows Phone.
  • Maybe ChromeOS will in several years, since they're still rising -- slowly, but steady --, but I doubt MacOS will. It's been around for decades and never took off. Don't why it would now all of a sudden.
  • Ok! while on you computer doing your work, do you use you smartphone AI or the PC AI to do these tasks, a get reminder, look for a restaurant, look up the weather or an address? those basic tasks have become much more convenient to do on a smartphone, conveniency is what people are looking for not a full PC in your pocket that's where windows mobile failed. the icecream on top is that you can truly pickup where you left off most of the time because it's in your pocket. Important services associated with a mobile nowadays, Maps, AI, Entertainment. MS whole handling of their mobile platform will cost them people like loyalty and MS seems to have none. Unless that MS make a huge leap with it Augmented Reality hardware, or dominate the cloud (Office, servers, OS), I can see them take a big hit moneywise in the future.
  • You might want to hold that thought. The current buzz is that Microsoft will be stopping the Surface line by 2019 to concentrate on profitable parts of its business with a higher margin. Xbox is clearly on notice. 
  • Bing search via Cortana is right there in the task bar.
  • Yet, people will still resort to their habits, and what they're used to. It's human nature, and MS can't change that...
    Let's quit the BS.. In 2017, and beyond, you must have a mobile device to be relevant with consumers.... End of story.
  • Yes it is however most users get rid of it.
  • And, some don't even pay attention in the first place.. It's not second nature.... But, thier smartphone is. I'm not saying that switching to your smartphone to perform a search is in any way smart, I'm just saying that's what people are actually doing because of human nature. These guys disagreement with my statement is just based on logic, and what people should be doing. But, before they disagree they aren't actually thinking about the reality of what's going on, and what people are really doing.
  • Racist much?
  • I doubt if he meant it that way.. Let's not go there. Lol
  • Haha, so stating the fact that he is balls and Indian is racist?
    Jesus, we suck as a society
  • The really funny thing is that the level of bigotry in India is astonishingly high, kinda like a national pass time. Just try being a Bangladeshi in India. Bigotry is awful stuff to deal with (and I say that as an active trade unionist) but in India you would need to go a fair bit stronger before anyone would even notice.
  • Devan... A society without a proper Windows Mobile device is failing as a society indeed. Yes, we suck... No, wait.. MS sucks monkey balls.🙈 🙉 🙈 🐒 🐵
  • It is racist if the combination of Bald and Indian is used as or meant as a derogatory term. As it clearly was in this case. If he had have just said bald, that would have just been insensitive to bald people, but not racist unless there was a race that had no hair. Make sense?
  • To liberals, saying Happy Birthday is racist. Lighten up - who cares? Saying "bald Indian" is fact, not racist. Heck, I'm an almost bald Caucasian.
  • Thus, the reason I am with MacBook and soon will be on IPads. I need something seamless and Windows simply doesn't cut it anymore.
  • Microsoft abandoning it's mobile platform certainly played a large part in it.  Another reason is the fact that it just wasn't that great.  It didn't offer anything (that anyone knew about) that differentiated itself apart from 1st party offerings on other devices.  Everything from the horrible name (which is petty to say but true) to the slow rollout of features lead to its demise - much like nearly all of MS' consumer products or services which you've mentioned.
  • Did you use Windows Mobile?
  • I used Windows Phone/Windows Mobile from day one (Samsung Focus) up until about a few months ago or so when I switched to Android.  Still have some Windows Phones as weel but generally don't use them much.
  • Then you should know that besides apps the user experience is great. (was great)... What made you switch is not because WP wasn't a good product, because even without apps you stayed for all those years, and you enjoyed it... What made you leave was MS's lack of commitment, and lack of marketing.. It wasn't WP that failed you; WP was great.... It was MS that failed you.
  • rodneyej, on point...nuff said
  • I'm always on point.... Lol😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
  • (cough,cough)
  • What you are rambling about, as usual, has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.  Maybe I had to spell out that I was speaking specifically about their Groove service.  I figured that would have been more than apparent given we are commenting on an article about MS' Groove service. Either way, what you are going on about is semantics.
  • No, I perceived your first comment wrong.. But, if you're gonna be a d%**, then 😲😲😲 off.
  • Dead on why I got a Android is items needed to be connected to and ease.  It was like a task to get things to work with my windows mobiel device.  
  • Your spot on. I am a massive Microsoft fan I've had various windows mobiles/phones over the years I had a band 1 and 2 had a zune which I still have and a music pass. That said over the years I've tried other os and had android various times but still went back to Windows Phone. Last one I had was the lumia 950xl and I loved this phone camera was great it was fast and did not have any issues with it but as the big apps like PayPal dropped windows phone I was forced to move across to android. I got the LG g5 which which supprised me in how good the phone was when they sagged it off compared to the others on the market but that said I still missed windows phone and the camera was not as good as the xls camera. I have now just upgraded to a sony xperia xz premium and I have to say I am very impressed with this phone. For me it's the closet to the lumia on android. It feels quite nokia/Microsoft in build, it had a camera button which is a must for me. The camera is also very good to and the phone is fast with no lag as sony have not messed with the ui much. Battery life is also amazing. I have uninstalled/disabled most of the Google apps and have Outlook, cortana, one drive, office, swype as this makes it feel more Microsoft and I also had groove which for me was still the best music service on a phone as you could have unlimited Songs on the pass where Spotify there is a limit. I have now moved to Google music as this seems the next best after groove but time will tell on that one. I really hope Microsoft sort them selfs out on the mobile market though as they offer great products but are often late and don't let people know about them. As for mobile I just dont see them coming back into the race now.
  • Not being able to remove apps I don't want is a sore point worth me. On my 950xl, I could remove anything I don't want. Can't do that with most Android phones.
  • I Do Not Understand how everyone looks past the privacy issue with android. I switched from wp to iPhone, i chose iPhone for privacy! I have downloaded many many apps on android and ios. The truth is android wants alllllllll your info compared to ios. I choose privacy over most everything else. I have an iPhone and for work, an android. If you bank online and any other personel Stuff, iPhone is the best choice! If you haven't already compared the app permissions, DO IT NOW!!! 
  • Rodneyej@ yeah, Microsoft sucks big time. I am still astound they lasted till this days. Abandoning and letting down people, is nothing new from this corporation. This guys are the worst their can be, they always want to change the world in their Advantages and some how, they always end with a tone of work and: Ups,let's go do something else. Nobody likes this company, especially their partners, believe me, i work in one small company that is already more then 20 years in partnership with microsoft. Even their service people, those who answer the freaqin phone are a bunch of supercilious a*sholes.
  • Lol. Now, it's time for you to tell us how you really feel about MS. Don't hold back this time!
  • Do i look holding it back? I have no hard feeling for no corporation, i actually do not give a f***k about them money eating greedy bastards. But some of their releases or services are useful, like my 950xl. Even though is a plastic crapp of a device, i like using it's software. Or active directory DS, top notch for any company, or azure, etc. it is a sad thing ms AGAIN, abandoned their own creations, but well, is nothing new. Oh, wait, i already said that;).
  • Lol. You don't.. Sarcasm, dude. Either way, thanks for the laughs... See, you can tell your honest opinion about MS without being an annoying troll, like some of the idiots around here.. I actually like reading your insults because they are warranted, and unbiased.
  • 🤘
  • I just switched from my 950 to a S8...  Initially, I was really impressed with how Android/Samsung has come in the last few years, and my S8 has some great features on it.  The screen on the S8 is fantastic, I wish that was on my 950.  What I like about the 950: Live Tiles Camera   What I dislike: The phone struggles processing new photos taken in a short period of time.  Battery life is just awful.  Any serious usage would just start draining the battery.    What I like abouthe S8:
    It's speedy Great software features (Widgets/adjusting screen contrast precisely, blue light filter) Screen is amazing (resolution/bezeless) What I dislike about the S8: The camera is awful compared to the 950 No Live Tiles   The 950 was alright for its time, but it's looking dated, hardware wise compared to the S8. 
  • What do you mean by the camera is awful compared to the 950?
  • Well, nokia 8 is faster then that phone;).
  • I blame it partly on Microsoft lack of "marketing" and Zune/Xbox Music users/consumers.  Microsoft had a product that charged you $14.99 a month.  With that you could listen, stream and download music while keeping 10 songs for life!  (It was yours!)  At $1.29 per song that would equate to $12.90.  Subtract that from the $14.99 and you're essentially paying $2.09 per month!!!!!  How the heck did everyone not jump on that?!!!  Now you pay $9.99 just for the pleasure of listening and can't keep one single song.  So yes, I partly blame this on users who couldn't see the forest from the trees. What was worst for me is when Microsoft cancelled that particular subscription.  I'll try Spotify again.  I didn't like it years ago, but I'll see what changes have been made. 
  • Well, Spotify is our only promising choice, now... Damn!!!😬😬😬😬😬
  • All these people who don't think Groove was a good name for a music service... I don't think you know what the word means. Not only is Groove "an adjective describing a rhythmic quality of music that is emotionally communicative and soulful; used for music moving at a steady beat" but is also a double entendre for the groove in a record that all the music is recorded into. Zune was a **** name, because it's gibberish, and Xbox music is just boring, but Groove is a fantastic name.
  • It depends on your culture.  If you've got no groove you don't really understand.  You got to keep that in mind.  There's no connection to the word Groove because they don't have it.  :)
  • Don't know if that is just a joke, but if not, what the **** is a Spotify?
  • @Tre916 LOL!!!  That's the point right!  People say Groove is a bad name but yet we have Spotify.  What the heck is that?  We have  ITunes.  Tunes is synonomous with music so is Groove "a rhythmic pattern in popular or jazz music".  It's as though we get so tangled up in certain thought process we just can't see past anything else. 
  • Groove is an AWESOME name for a music service....Just that MS is so ****** in the head because of the ******* they have running the show!
  • Nothing wrong with the name..
    Somthing wrong with marketing, as usual.
  • Despite the mobile issue, the Groove service failed because:
    1. More expensive than Spotify
    2. No family plan
    3. Different prices and offers depending which country you are (e.g., USA and 4 more countries takes 3 months for free, rest of the world takes 1 month)
    4. The music catalog was starting to lack of so many albums
  • And ZERO MARKETING, which makes pretty much every other excuse irrelevant..
    Windows Phone was a great product.
    Zune was a great product.
    Band was a great product.
    Groove was a great product..
    And, everything MS (or any company, for that matter) does will fail if they don't put 1000% passion, resources, and effort, behind it.
  • I'd go on to argue that they castrated the best in-box w10 had making ANYTHING else up for the same fate at a moments notice. Indeed, ms has failed those products
  • I can't really think of a terrible MS product, or service... MS just didn't sell them to consumers. MS doesn't push their **** like Apple, and Samsung, does. Look at the outcome.
  • Don't forget Media Center - that was great too.
  • MS can make great things happen. The "world" knows this.. That's not the question. The question is WILL MS make great things happen? Lol.
    They have some very intelligent people working around the world, yet the decision makers, and leadership, is failing to make things happen. Such a common problem in business...
    Now, how many if us can say the same thing about the companies we work for? Me🙌🏽
  • What? But Groove was cheaper than Spotify. The music catalogue seemed fine to me, I could even grab some really obscure 70s stuff. Granted, no family plan was an issue for some but in other respects Groove was really great.
  • Groove was good.. Most importantly, the UI was great.. We're fücked.
  • 5.  Terrible implementation. (lots of UI issues: duplicate album listings, incomplete albums, missing albums, imaginary support team, etc...)
  • I loved it,had to drop it because I got double and triple charged for almost a year,they had to cancel my card to find the problem,but then couldn't because they cancelled every trace of it.Basically they sent me back and forth for a month between Xbox,groove and MS accounts ....nobody in that company has a clue what they're doing,which seems to be the company strategy.
  • Maybe that's the problem,with all the moving and restructuring,they've got duplicate departments where no one knows what the hek is happening.
  • Told Everyone this prior!!! Also, since Surface is a mobile category, Dell and Lenovo are saying the Surface line is next and that it wont make it to 2020.
  • The Surface line as a whole won't go anywhere.  Will you see the Surface Pro, Studio, Book, and Laptop be removed from that line?  Absolutely.  The Surface line is about bringing new product categories to market, and showing what their software is capable of in the best hardware.  This is why there are no budget Surface products. Hardware partners have all jumped on board with 2 in 1 laptops, convertibles, educational focused laptops, and even Dell has created an all in one to rival the Surface Studio.   Surface products aren't designed to be around forever, they are a "this is how to make our software shine"  product that guides OEMs.  Microsoft has not, nor will they ever be an all out hardware maker. 
  • My company is testing out the HP Elite x2 (I tested) becasue of the issue with MS docks and mulitple monitors fo rus.  It has been an interesting experience.  I am using my sp4 on a sp3 dock because it is more stable.  Whle other peopel "non-engineers" dont' want to deal with troubleshooting peripherals. 
  • do an online search and you will see that the thinking is that MS came in and lit a fire under the OEMs and know they are done.
  • Microsoft's head of PR came out hard against that yesterday calling it "drivel". They just released laptop, not even a category-defining device. If Nadella had doubts about Surface I'm not sure how that product got through. Nadella just one week ago is on record as saying he believes in making hardware with the software and cited the early MS Tablet endeavor under Ballmer/Gates as an example of how not doing that leads to product failure.
  • Yeah...we still remember Mr "Hit Refresh" saying things about bringing phones for consumers, business and whatever. People around here are in total denial. Whatever he says he will not do.
  • Thats Mr Retrenchment, and dont you forget it!
  • Satya has not been a good thing for Microsoft in the long run.
  • Microsoft says many things but do the complete opposite. Plus the PR person is doing exaclty what they're paid to, spread good vibes. You cant take the word of any Microsoft executive anymore, especially Mr "if no one else builds a phone we will". Strange to see you still vigorously defending them considering the current situation.
  • @Daniel Was this the same Nadella who claimed "Mobile First, Cloud First strategy"?  Well we know as of now "Mobile" in the sense of phones have been gutted.  So anything Nadella says take it with a grain of salt.  There's no there, there.
  • I miss the old days of Windows (phone) Central when everyday we could look forward to device leaks, positive metric reports, new app articles, and new OEM'S jumping onboard....
    Are we ever gonna get that back, Daniel? What's your grain of salt opinion? Please tell me.
  • @rodneyj Truthfully I come here everyday hoping to get some nugget of some great phone news.  Still holding on.  Hoping it would be like back in the day.  But sadly, the only news we get now is what is being taken away.  With nothing new of significant coming.  Not even a smidge of mobile news unless if it's bad news.  It's sad.  But with Microsoft wasting money on LinkedIn that's their new baby.  Let's not talk about Skype.  Another promising program they have made somewhat irrelavent.  SMH! 
  • Damn... Guess I'll be waiting for a Surface Phone while using some super Android device.... Sure I'll forget at some point. Lol
  • I do not trust Satya at all, if he says surface is fine expect him to can it within 6 months. Satya has no issue killing an entire consumer product division at a moments notice with no explanation.
  • Lol. Don't start that.. See, if we start speeding that BS then we'll be yhe ones responsible for Surfaceeseses death.
  • Dan, do you actually believe anything that Nutella moron says?? His mouth is so full of crap and lies that not even a word is to be trusted...Remember the 3 category phones he was crapping about in public? That turned out well didn't it?
  • Consumers want to be part of an ecosystem or family of devices, Apple has it and Google now has it, nearly every form factor covered. Microsoft had it in 2015-2016ish. This is the Microsoft that I left Apple's ecosystem for. A source of mine high up has said that Surface will not be around in 5 years. It is a real shame.
  • We know, we know. Don't rub salt in our wounds.😭😭😭😂😂😂
  • I believe Microsoft is positioned quite nicely. Qualcomm/Intel/AMD in one hand and the huge partner base of OEMs in the other, the future is setting up to look really good. Windows Mobile is being merged into the main OS should streamline and even perhaps simplify the production of new devices. And with the new Android phones pricing maybe getting out of reach for many consumers I think Microsoft retrenchment gives them or I should say an OEM who want to build a wp and with the right pricing could gain a footing in the marketplace.
  • Erm...
  • When UWP Spotify is on WM10, then Groove will not be as essential, and if it also streams music from OneDrive, then Groove becomes redundant. Likewise, if Amazon had a better Kindle app, then MS books wouldn't be as important either. No point in competing in everything.
  • You read that last paragraph too. Best bit of the article. All Spotify need to do is make a full UWP app that is as good as or better than Groove (not easy), and then bring their price down to the price Groove was so people don't feel like this is a price hike in exchange for an awful app experience as is currently the case. They want to move fast too, because Deezer already has a fair (but not Groove level great) UWP app for phone and PC. If Spotify fanny about over this then they'll miss out.
  • at some point they will lease out surface patents to OEMs and let them build surface pro clones. and scaleback surface division, would not close yet though
  • It's that axe, that axe that obliterated (quite deliberately) the smartphone division which by then consisted of insane talent that moved over with the Nokia d & s division. To be honest and extremely blunt, this is a very, very worrying trend. As now the entire credibility of the Universal app platform is now in question. The miss steps where ios and android are getting preferential treatment over their entire ecosystem is damaging. As by not developing UWP apps for their high profile acquisitions does not inspire confidence in developers to do the same. Furthermore since a UWP app can be used on HoloLens, headless iot devices where it make sense. So why should developers take the chance in targeting a market that still yet to mature, when Microsoft is not by developing UWP apps. The WMR platform is awesome but it ties in directly with UWP platform. All the apps showcased were UWP apps. UWP apps and by extension progressive web apps are the transitional node between traditional applications and towards holographic computing. It's like baking a cake without flour, sure you could... in theory if you take into the reaction and compounds' created. But... in reality it doesn't work so well. That's the problem, Microsoft is slowly becoming besotted with numbers, if they continue to do so they will truly lose sight of what made windows ubiquitous. Consumer adoption through enterprise interaction, a pc in every home. Key words being, "Consumer adoption".
  • Do a online search on "Surface line", Surface is next.
  • I am aware of several articles. At the end of day, I understand why although that doesn't mean I agree. Any company that becomes statistic driven, is a lost company. Customers are not numbers.
  • i fear that ms using its on products have been going the fallen consumer direction due to this for a while now and that's why they don't understand what's happening. Consumers aren't numbers and they are missing that element
  • Microsoft's phone division did not fail, the CEO of Microsoft failed the phone division. I would imagine there were plenty of smart, capable folks who knew what they were doing but, Nutella does not seem too.
  • Balmer was the CEO of the phone division. The new CEO was brought in to clean up Balmer's mess.
  • Balmer failed - as interview with Gates and nadella confirmed. The goal should have been after buying nokia 1) create an android phone like Moto Z. 2) Create an add-on device for a MSFT OS like a Rasberry PI. Not Continuum. MSFT fans would buy that and can still partner with Nokia to create. Sad part is it is still possible so WHERE IS IT?
  • So not true. The phone division was not profitable and was not going to be. Buying Nokia was not a good decision as much as I hoped it would be. Big WP fan here, but I don't think mobile is as easy as you seem to think.
  • Bingo.  No visionnaries @ Microsoft.  Only walking diplomas running the show.  How does Microsoft not promote Continuum everyday is beyond me.
  • As I see it, Microsoft's mobile division fell flat due to one overriding reason: it was never allowed to become as important as it had to be. Take a look at Apple, for example.  When it introduced the iPhone in 2007, the company was primarily focused on iPods and Macs.  But here's the thing: Apple was willing to devote as many resources as it took to help the iPhone grow, even if that meant that the iPhone would ultimately overshadow the iPod and Mac.  And sure enough, it did: within a few years, Apple was mainly known as the iPhone company. Microsoft?  Nope.  Ballmer, of course, was notorious for protecting Windows on the desktop at all costs: Windows Mobile/Phone was always supposed to be in subservience to desktop Windows.  And it got the resources to match -- where Apple pulled people off of important projects, Microsoft has always given its mobile teams just a modest amount of assets to work with.  I still remember seeing public hints that Windows Phone/Mobile's lagging feature set was due in part to a lack of staff.  And the Nokia acquisition... well, Microsoft seemed to act as if it didn't have to do much more than rebrand the phones as "Microsoft." I don't blame Nadella much if at all.  He inherited a platform that was already dying, and he had to make a choice between reinvesting in a platform with shaky prospects or acknowledging the reality that Microsoft had missed the boat and was living in an Android- and iOS-centered world.  I wouldn't have ruled out improved performace for Windows Mobile if Nadella had recommitted to it, but as we saw with BlackBerry, even radical modernization and lavish spending are no guarantees of success.  Really, Microsoft's complete mobile reinvention should have started on January 9th, 2007, the moment Steve Jobs finished introducing the iPhone.
  • it might be a good thing tho, maybe MS will bought over Spotify in the future...? As it's already has the population and reputation...
    If MS could move all the users to Spotify any bought over the entitle company, might be a good thing...just saying.
  • I mean, it's a possibility... At this point, if MS did bring a Surface Phone to market it would be better if it could take advantage of iTunes, and Apple car play.. MS can't get into the modern infotainment system by themselves, so for the best Surface auto media experience that would be great... Of course, I don't know how that works.
  • How is that Linkedin thing working for them ?
  • @Ricardo And maybe that's what caused them to quit on Groove.  Wanting to put more resources in LinkeIn.  Who knows.
  • Finally, I hear this Spotify-Microsoft partnership goes much further than we have been told. The idea that engineers on the Groove team focused on music and streaming may now be working on a proper Spotify UWP app – maybe even with OneDrive support – does not seem farfetched. We'll have to see if that pans out over the next few months.
    Just like Linkedin..... ROFLMAO.... Seriously do you expect us to believe that ?
    Man, we are witnessing history right now...the second coming of IBM !!!! 
  • I mean they can just add it to the Spotify app everywhere.  Like a partnership.  You could access your OneDrive music from Spotify on iOS, Android, Windows, Web.  I mean Groove already did this on my Android phone so it seems easy to do.  Just does Spotify want to get in bed with Microsoft.
  • They may do that.  And it'll be released for Android and iOS only(iOS first, Android to follow), while Windows 10 Mobile users (myself included) complain unheard.
  • No **** Sherlock. Satya Nadella is a moron. When is Bill Gates going to get rid of this nutjob
  • When Microsoft's profits stop growing.
  • tbh. If i was ms, i would fear pwa. As soon as businesses can run securely on pwas accessed by free os's, the enterprise market will jump ship and the growing profits from that cash cow will leave ms with nothing but Xbox and azure, the latter already being second
  • Yep. The strategy of putting all your eggs in one basket is very risky. Add to that MS's tendency to set said basket on fire with their slash and burn approach and the chances of a hot mess are not small.
  • Movies and TV shows must be doomed now as well. With these products loaded with DRM restrictions you need to be confident the platform is around for the long term.
  • Groove was really really good (eventually).  It took them almost a year to fix the crashing bug on WM10 when you searche by artist. I loved how it would play from my personal collection without me having to specifically download every song first.  It would auto download and cache the songs as they came up in my playlist.
  • Without a mobile platform, Microsoft become just another software company. They will compete in the cloud space with Amazon and Google. The majority of people will look at their most used item - the mobile phone - and see Apple, Samsung, LG, Lenovo - the brands plastered over the desvices, and Google - the store they get all their apps from. Nobody is going to look for 'Microsoft' apps - just like nobody will search for Apple software on Android. Microsoft should have commited to the mobile platform and continually improved and developed it properly - competing with Apple and Android. Now they have no mobile presence, a small professional laptop presence, a desktop presence and a large enterprise presence that will likely go niche. All because they failed to commit to mobile. People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware - Alan Kay
  • What the matter did not say was that today it is possible to listen to music even from the shower. The quantity of applications that offer music services, including Itune, Amazon,, Spotify, Deezer, Torrent, radios, TuneIn, YouTube, etc., greatly increases the competition and the cost of availability of the service is not financially viable. Della hit on abandoning this service, even though, even though the Groove on any screen, sales do not go as expected. Now people are mixing this suit with other suits and thinking it's all the same when it's not. Della is making right decisions and staying in markets that do not generate profits really doesn't pay. The mobile sector is already dead. Android's already dead. But people still don't see it. Let the time say.
  • After some times with almost no articles, it's a hat trick today, Dan! Keep it coming, I like reading yours!
  • Microsoft is always a day late and a dollar short. Always late to the party. They need to get out of the hardware biz completely. And go back to its roots.
  • Don't forget about the Surface line. They were late to the party, and now everyone is copying the Surface Pro. They just have to do it similarly to Apple. Come late but do it better. **I'm not a fan of Apple, but it seems to be working for them**
  • Yeah, if you worked at the Airport you'd see just how popular Surface really is. I can walk by a restaurant and count the various Surface books, pro's, and now Laptops, passengers have using on thier tables... When you see five Surface devices being used within every 20 square foot area,, that line of devices is catching on. That's why a Surface Phone is so damn important.
  • It will just piss off more people when Satya cans the Surface division. MS will not be selling consumer prodcuts or services in 5-10 years, Xbox included, he is going to slash and burn everything consumer related at MS andbecome IBM 2.0
  • Don't start rumors like that.. It's already bad enough. Don't panic, because it just makes the situation worse.
  • A surface phone without MOBILE apps will do nothing! No sane user would buy into such a thing that will be killed off in a year and has zero dev support.
  • Agreed.
  • Y'all are too busy thinking about Android, iOS, and expecting for this device to be positioned in competition, marketed, sold in volume to, and to the average consumer with the like... That's the why some people get it, and some people don't...
    Stop expecting for users of such a mobile PC to be concerned with Snapchat, and using every mobile app in existence, with this PC.. It's not a smartphone, and those who aren't looking to use it strictly for productive case scenarios would definitely not be the target market.. But, there is a market for such a device if MS is smart enough to market it in that way...... ............Wait, MS isn't smart enough. Nevermind, carry on.......
  • I disagree. The issue is not lack of innovation but the lack of marketing. Why did MS not offer a family pass option, why did MS not sign big deals with wholesellers like ALDI, why did MS not promote the service more aggressively, etc, etc, etc.? These are the issues, the app itself has seem many improvements in the past 12 months.
  • Yes, EXACTLY! Totally 1000000% agree. MARKETING!
  • Bingo! Great article!!!
  • Make Spotify UWP already, damn it! And for gosh sake remove this WMP already (and all other legacy win32 crap) from Windows!! It's 2017..
  • There is a lot of meat to chew through on tomorrow's podcast! This issue concerns me because it seems to be a retreat from a strategic position in the ecosystem wars. But perhaps the enemy of my enemy is my friend, coupled with Nadella's growth mindset for partnership, shows us that this is the skirmish you lose to win a greater battle. Cortana and "Conversations as an interface" need to get into the consumer game. The Google Home presentation yesterday was super impressive. Maybe an introductory subscription to Spotify for Invoke purchasers? Look, Microsoft is an old company and for many years it did a great job participating in a lot of different markets. Rarely are they able to sustain first-mover advantage, but they are often able to be viable competitors. My point in all of this is that Mixed Reality and AI on the desktop are destined for last-tier status if Microsoft can't attract a significant user base to its consumer plays. Nadella's has said he wants customers to LOVE Microsoft... Decisions like these seem like he's playing a little hard to get.
  • For some reason Groove has broke the camels back.... Could it be that Groove was one of the only cool consumer facing products that MS had left? And, that it was actually appealing for those who knew about it,, and especially those on WM?... For me, Groove was one of the few things that made my L950/WM experience bearable.. Now, it's going away.... Never have I considered an Android device until now. 🤔🤔🤔
  • Groove didn't was retrenched.
  • That sentiment will surely be on Nadella's tomb stone. 'I'm not dead, just retrenched...'
  • Next will be OneDrive, OneNote, MSN Apps, Outlook, Office Lens, Cortana, etc....  All these apps have competitors which are native on their own platform, meaning those native apps will always better because they'll have deeper hooks into their OS and platform.  THIS is why Microsoft needed mobile.  Mobile is the central hub of all things consumer-tech related.
  • Wasn't October the month when they are having a keynote with new hardware and presenting the next Windows 10 update - Redstone 4? When  is it? Is this event also scrapped?
  • I think Windows on ARM is cancelled. Put Andromeda and Cshell in the same bin.
  • I fear you are right about that. I'm pretty sure MS is currently crossing the Rubicon. The end is very bloody nigh.
  • Yep I twould not shock if Satya canned it all cause it worked to well
  • It would have been nice if Microsoft could have partnered with Spotify to have them provide the backend music streaming for Groove so they could have keept Groove like it is.  Then it could be something like Microsoft Groove powered by Spotify.
  • You know, I thought just that? Strange how such an obvious approach to us just doesn't cross anyone's mind at Microsoft. Spotify, MS and all the customers would benefit. If they don't come up with something, I'm going Deezer. At least they have a UWP app.
  • Frankly, I think removing businesses that are not at the core of Microsoft is not a bad thing. I am actually glad they are removing bs like Groove, and wish the next step are Movies & TV, MSN, Health, HoloLens (served its purpose) and YES - SURFACE! Leave it only to two extreme things - Business/Productivity (Windows 10, Azure, Visual Studio, Office, Dynamics, Teams) and Gaming (Xbox, MR, DirectX for Windows). Leave the average Joe out already. Normal people either torrent Windows for home or receive it from the OEM they have bought their laptop from preinstalled. Two things: Business/Productivity & Gaming
  • Here's a crazy idea, how about putting such businesses in this legendary core of Microsoft we hear so much about on these forums? Rather than leaving a key sector on the fringes like mobile.
  • Well, I guess it is finally time to move on.
    I love my Elite x3 and I love Windows 10, but at this point it is clear that neither is going anywhere.
    One main point Microsoft seems to miss is that I will not be using Microsoft services on any other platform. I will simply make a clean and total switch.
    The reason I picked Windows 10 was that it allowed me to use Family Safety and keep an eye on what my kids are doing on their devices and for how long. That includes tablets, PC and phone. Having to switch my family to another platform means I am losing this ability on at least one device group, the phones. So I will move all devices to a new OS (preferably one with good parental controls) and just be done with Microsoft.
    Sad, but that's it.
  • And this is the reality of the situation.  Microsoft fails to realize that all of their offerings really just are not that great on other platforms.  99% of people will use 1st party offerings on their devices.  So, goodbye Outlook, Edge, Groove, etc. etc.  I know some people here use some of them on other devices but I've certainly moved away from nearly all of their offerings because I switched platforms.
  • If you are going to Google, try this...    
  • I use this and it works very well!
  • First : You re right with what you say about Microsoft and Mobile ! Second: From a father of 2 Kids to another father: Don't spy your kids ! Learn them how to use all this things ! Otherwise you will lost their trust. Third:  Think about it !
  • Trust my kids,just can't leave it to the s/experts on the web to keep them safe. Not even in Xbox,with teens telling kids to kill themselves,no wonder there's so many shootings in schools.Caught first couple,now my kids can handle themselves,but there's still alot of catfishing. Just not a safe world for kids.
  • Good article Daniel. Objective and accurate. Excellent job!!
  • I agree 100%. I recently had to switch to a OnePlus 2 because my 950XL's screen met a corner and shattered. No replacement devices anywhere. Why don't I just get a used 950XL from Ebay? Because Microsoft doesn't show that they care about their mobile users. I would love to stay on the Windows mobile platform just for the simplicity of it. I hate how the customized version of Android my current device is using won't let me do something as basic as disable individual apps from running in the background. It's all or nothing. Several apps are better designed on Windows. Fitbit is so much better on Windows, and myTube is a far superior YouTube app than the official YouTube app. However, I did find a launcher that makes the OnePlus 2 look and function like a Windows phone. It's called Launcher 10 if you're interested. It's helping to ease the transition, but it's not ideal. The audio profile/EQ settings on Windows are much better on Windows too. TL;DR version: I wish Microsoft gave a damn about it's mobile users. I would've been content to see phones released with new processors, more RAM, and newer antennas. Just a spec bump release. I would've bought a Lumia 953 in a second. Now I'm looking at the Pixel 2XL or the Galaxy S8+. Microsoft is going to have to prove to me that they give a damn about us if they ever release the mythical Surface phone.
  • I don't understand why they didn't try and buy them out.  They are not in good standing financially anyway.  It would have been a much better purchase than several others they've made in the past...
  • Spotify is not in a good financial standing? Are you joking or simply trying to guess? First of all Spotify has the most active subscribers, and second tehy would not have sold to MS because of MS's past history of buy and dismantle or "forget about it".
  • "Spotify is the largest streaming media service, with around 140 million customers, but it's wildly unprofitable; in June, it reported losses of $601 million on revenue of $3.3 billion for 2016. The company has been expected to become publicly traded this year or next, a move that would stave off bankruptcy for a number of years, but Spotify appears to be no closer to developing a viable business model and payment structure that would enable it to turn a consistent profit." But agree on your other point, unfortunately.
  • I'd be pissed if they kill movies. I've spent maybe 20 bucks on music and most of it is already in mp3. Movies and TV shows? I've spend hundreds and they are DRM'ed. If they kill that service, I'd be basically encouraged to never, ever give microsoft another cent for media. 
  • next to go wasn't movies and tv in my prediction. It's ebooks
  • LMAO. So you are making a UWP spotify-groove inspired app now? After Nutella told us to go buy Android for the past year? Brilliant.
  • I would LOVE to see an MS-Spotify partenrship, but you are absolutely correct, consumers value Consistency and Commitment!!!!!
  • I think when looking at the "embarassing litany of Microsoft's failures"  we need to take some of these into perspective.  Microsoft SPOT was an attempt at a smart home.  This was back in 2004.  Today, we are seeing the smart home finally come to fruition, but it is still a very niche product area.   The Microsoft Band, was a neat device, that was introduced as a fitness band during the fitness band and smartwatch boom.  It was also there to showcase what could be done with the technology, as Microsoft was offering all of the tech for license.  I belive that Band could have succeeded if they were able to get it to run a version of Windows 10.  I wouldn't be shocked to see them return to this area after Core OS is finalized.  However, that would also depend on where the wearable market is. Remember, that the Band was released when you had big players such as Pebble, and Vector (Both being acquired by fitbit). Windows RT, is an OS that had to exist, because there was no way to get full Windows 8 to run efficiently on a tablet.  Tablets were the mobile device at the time, and Microsoft couldn't risk missing that market like they did with the smartphone market.  The problem we had here, was the marketing was incorrect for the product, and it left consumers feeling confused and cheated because of the lack of features.  The better idea here would have been to remove the desktop all together on RT, and create a better suite of Office Mobile. 
  • Yes, consistency is failing absolutely.
    Will we see Groove app replacement by Spotify supporting OneDrive?
    I get tired of it.
  • But smartphones are dead and MS has a mobile strategy :/S
  • no, failed because as usual no marketing, no advertising, no family plan... how many people knew about it?
  • That's the bottom line...SMDH
    Same with WP/WM
    Same with Band
  • I really hope the last paragraph is true. At the end of the day i dont care where my music is coming from. But, after trying the current Spotify app out on my Lumia 950... It's unusable.
  • All is true but I think tthe failure of all their personal computing consumer products ultimately comes down to one decision. Back around the time vista was releasing all ms and their main tech partner Intel believed the traditional pc was going to be the dominant usage case for the next 10 + years. They lost right there with a perfect storm of events: 1. Vista 3rd party support at launch was a disaster.
    2. Apple was able to build long term marketing based on idea that the sit down pc was undesirable and not cool.
    3. Apple rebranded themselves as a pure consumer company. Different then MS. In touch with normal non tech people. Cool.
    3. When MS tried to put out non-desktop products like ultra mobile pc they didn't have control of underlying tech ie Intel and therefore actual usage was suboptimal like battery life etc.
    4. Apple was able to use new tech to build better usage experience.
    5. Majority of development became not guys writing software to sell to ppl but rather Service based companies that determine if they should spend resources to provide ability on platforms to offer access to users.
    6. MS tries to shift quickly and use win users as draw for service companies ie win 8. Unfortunately it all failed and was walked back to win 10. Bottom line is imo two main decisions killed MS in consumer space: Not realizing how much damage their brand took with normal ppl after Vista mess and Apple taking advantage with message. And then not seeing that people wouldn't want to BELIEVE the only way they could use computer and internet was to sit down at a desk like they'd done for 10 plus years. And MS was not giving them something to think otherwise. And MS became a joke and even actively resented by people. And I think that's Nadella shifted message to we want people to love windows. But they couldn't make ppl love windows again. They resented the name and the usage it represented too much.
  • Groove was intelligent. It knows the music that I like better than I do. It does a good job of finding new music for me, and automatically creating playlists. It doesn't seem that Spotify can compare on this. If Spotify hadn't come to Xbox, MS would be forced to continue Groove. I only wish that Spotify can add things like music videos, and a better touch experience on tablets. Also, what happens to the default groove playlist in Forza Horizon 3?
  • they should just buy spotify
  • I agree
  • Spotify has publicly stated they would never sell to a US tech company; European pride or something, so won't happen.
  • didn't realize they were still private. Heard the rumors a few years ago of an IPO and assumed it went through. 
  • Then, they will just sell to Microsoft of Europe😂😂😂😂
    Money talks😐
  • I think you can call it "business pride", not to sell to a company like Microsoft. Everything MS buys turns into crap or dies: Nokia, Skype.
  • Just like LinkedIn...and Skype. Just buy them and ruin them. Great idea.
  • what exactly is ruined about linkedin since the purchase? skype was sucking before ms bought, they just continued to suck under them. 
  • I receive the e-mail for this announcement the same day Google announce the Pixel 2, it a sign that I ave to switch from my lumia 950 XL, bye bye MS...
  • That Pixel 2 was hot tho
  • Groove failed on me because it wasn't Zune. Meaning it lacked all the features of Zune which made me love buying and listening to music. Music recommendations, better sorting options, knowing what songs I owned and which I just subscribed too, ability to find related artists....when windows 8 launched with their cloud music matching service on by default it screwed my music collection up and to this day has never been the same. Not only that, but I still don't see my purchased music through Groove and MS doesn't have anyone at their company to help me or you with their app!! Sure someone will answer the phone and give you the "I'm sorry your experiencing this issue but together we will get this resolved" crap and 5 hour or more calls later it always ended with me still not able to re download all albums I purchased even though it shows me as having bought said music, so frustrating. I say MS should just get out of the consumer market altogether as they have made too many asinine misteps and this is coming from windows guy...let me list them....didn't buy YouTube, didn't buy Instagram, the band, xbox music....and so on......
  • zune was pretty great. killing it was stupid. 
  • My experience illustrates Dan's article. Cool story - When I switched from the 950 to the S8 (pre-ordered) my Groove subscription was up, so I didn't renew and it was the perfect time to try Google Play music for free. I started using Xbox\Groove music 5 years ago when I got my 920. It had its up and downs, but overall I was satifisfied. The groove desktop experience is better than google's, but mobile is the main driver for my paid streaming music choice. Also getting youtube red in addition makes it a better value than any of the other services. I still use Groove for my music on OneDrive. Not being able to cast Groove from mobile is also a bummer. But I can cast youtube music to my xbox, go figure MS. Chromecast/Android/Play Music/Youtube/YTMusic for the win. 
  • " Finally, I hear this Spotify-Microsoft partnership goes much further than we have been told. The idea that engineers on the Groove team focused on music and streaming may now be working on a proper Spotify UWP app – maybe even with OneDrive support – does not seem farfetched. We'll have to see if that pans out over the next few months. " Mmm... looks interesting ! Could you explain and give us more info about this, please ?
  • Groove was great on 8.1, then we got the windows 10 version which had none of the features, which were then slowly added back in. Why? 
  • They failed because they didn't advertise it one bit. Nobody outside of MS fanatics knew Groove was a thing, even frequent users of W10. If it comes stock on your PC, is available on your phone, and is available on xbox, you're pretty likely to give a shot. If MS had put out tv commercials, music ads (like Apple), etc. they would have been fine. They constantly make the mistake of developing good services and then blame the service for the failure, when in reality it's their execution and marketing that fails them. 
  • It seems so obvious, doesn't it?  Surely somebody at Microsoft has heard of "advertising". ???  It does actually work.  Go figure.
  • And don't forget "Mix Radio"!! It was also a part of the Microsoft Music "Business" Ohh men, i loved Mix Radio (also killed by MS) and i loved Groove and hoped, they will implement the technics behind Mix Radio into Groove. But now it's to late :-(  ... The new Slogan for Microsoft could be:  Come later but go sooner... 
  • All they had to do was make Groove free for Xbox Live Gold members. This would have driven marketshare up on other platforms like Android and iOS and that would have translated into organic advertisement as Groove would have seen a spike in top download charts for both mobile platforms.
  • All they had to do was make Groove free for everyone, but advertising-supported. I believe they had such a plan available previously but it was discontinued in 2014. The #1 reason I always chose Spotify was because it's free. I've had Spotify premium a few times (was given vouchers plus took advantage of $1 deal) and I didn't notice much difference in audio quality or features. But I use the service almost exclusively on PC so I don't need any of the premium mobile features (random playlists etc). I'm happy to hear a few ads to have a free streaming service. In fact I use a special Spotify ad-blocker that mutes the ads, which means Spotify still get the ad revenue but I don't have to listen to the crappy ads.
  • Even if a new UWA Spotify comes up, it's worthless now. WP owners are making the switch like never before, they now know that Microsoft's mobile efforts are buried. For me, Microsoft's biggest and more fatal mistake was not talking to its consumer base, a base where people actually cared about the company and its efforts. Microsoft didn't listen nor did it care about them, and that has been made pretty clear over the last months. I had hope on Nadella's leadership on Mobile, but now I feel nothing more than regret and sorrow. Microsoft is killing everything related to consumers just because it was not going "as well as planned". Hell, take a look at Xbox. If it were Nadella back then, there'd probably be no Xbox today. Look at HoloLens, for instance: A great concept/idea, with poor execution as usual. To make matters worse, in a recent statement, HP's CEO said that they gave up on a Elite x3 successor because Microsoft didn't care about its own OS. In other words, they were going ahead with that, but Microsoft practically forced them to quit, just like it's doing to its consumer base. As for me, I'm finally done. The move on Groove was already bad enough and with Edge coming to Android, it's all I wanted to hear for me to jump ship. I'll still use Microsoft's services (as I despise Google, but I also hate iPhones), but I want Microsoft to stick their "ultramobile device" up their asses!!
  • UWP would be more about future Windows 10 devices, Mixed Reality experiences, Xbox, and PC. It's not all phone for UWP.
  • No, but the UWP platform probably can't succeed without a solid phone platform. It sure hasn't yet. 
  • Let's just give in, an admit that's the truth.... In 2017 you gotta have a phone to compliment your ENTIRE ecosystem...
    An ecosystem is like Voltron, and the phone forms the head. You're dead without it.
  • You have a point. But the most personal device today is a phone, which Microsoft has none. Not to mention that Mixed Reality is still in its infancy and, even though Microsoft did it first with a first party hardware to compliment it, Apple has already made bigger strides with their iPhone app. The problem with Microsoft and its newer apps/services/devices/ideas is that they never gain mindshare with consumers, and that's always bad.
  • Let's be serious for a moment Dan. UWP on PC, seriously? So far it's a failure, and if MS thinks Windows10S will save that, they are more stupid than I thought. Mixed Reality? That will fail too because: Microsoft. Without mobile, UWP is useless enough to become just a "mee too" irrelevant aspect. I do own an xbox one at home. I have one app on it, that I can hardly call UWP: Youtube. that's it. Xbox is a gaming console first.
  • Microsoft constantly failing
  • I have the HP Elite X3 currently. I think it is a fabulous phone. HP really hit it out of the park with this one. In terms of music services I can't believe Microsoft killed Groove. Like really that was one of the coolest apps ever. I will continue using Windows phone even after they stop updating the platform because I love the look and usability aspects of it. Down the road we will see what happens with everything. Until then I'm sticking with my HP Elite X3 for now. I mean there is still some intrest in W10M. Look @ Zac B article on changes coming to W10M in the Fall Creators update that was published on Oct 1st. The article has 340 comments that is quite a bit if you ask me. However I also agree that the platform should have been a lot more polished at this point in time.
  • Wake up from that delusional dream...some interest in windows 10 m? :))) Anyway you'll have a hard time selling that X3. Very few would be delusional enough to actually buy a dead platform.
  • Of course. Mobile has knock on effects everywhere. in Nadella's book he says Windowsphone was in double digits percent in Europe and other places but that wasn't enough. As a standalone business he was right but lets pull back. As a whole platform and ecosystem he is wrong. Nadella said that retrenchment meant 3 phones per year. A premum phone, a business phone and a consumer phone. Continuum would be the business differentiator and UWP would bind Microsoft's diverse ecosystem together. AI (Cortana) and cloud services would drive innovation. Of course the annual phones never appeared. UWP became a series of wrappers to provide access to a chaotic store experience. Cortana got locked into a largely PC experience in which success is measured not by using it in the real world on mobile but by typing a search term in Windows 10. Meanwhile AI has already moved to home speakers, AR on mobile phones and the occulus rift for gaming. Skype's continuous reboot and snapchat envy is keeping realtime AI in a flatline of user numbers. Nadella's book talks about mobile payments being a key driver in developing economies. Nokia had NFC ready to go with Windowsphone but we never saw a Microsoft Pay except in the US market in 2016.  Microsoft's mobile strategy wasn't just a failure because of an off hand comment about iphone in 2007 just before Apple cut the price because it actually wasnt selling at the original price point. Microsoft's mobile strategy died several times as executives made it as exciting as using the restroom. Nadella said he wanted people to love Windows. Love is currently mobile. The productivity PC with business cloud services is an economic decision by businesses. Love is having devices you use everyday personally that you can't be without. PC is an acronym for "personal computer" and there is nothing more personal than a computer you keep with you everyday and keeps you in touch with the things you care about. If Microsoft can't compete there it wont be loved. If it retrenches from consumer services then it will be a profitable enterprise company. That's fine. However based on Nadella's stated objectives it's not hitting the mark in many places.    
  • Still doesn't make sense, why not make the OneDrive connection and the UWP app before killing Groove.
  • That may still be the plan.  Groove will keep streaming til Dec 31.  That app may be ready before then.
  • Grove Music and Phone didn't fail, it was f..... up by Nadella.
  • On one hand, I hope they are working with Spotify on a UWP app that streams from OneDrive.  However, by leaving me in a lurch without this feature (Microsoft's Groove FAQ page states Spotify won't stream from OneDrive, which to me indicates if and when they ever make this happen, it will be months/years from now) it gives me time to become entrenched in Google or Amazon's music locker services.  Why would I bother returning?
  • The Microsoft app will continue to stream from onedrive. 
  • True, but when running, driving, etc I don't want to be switching apps depending on which app albums are located.  Google Play or Amazon get around that need by doing what Groove used to do so well.  I'll miss Groove streaming and especially the playlists it curated from my collection.  (First world problems I know...)
  • I can’t speak about this ability with Amazon, but I must say that Google handles this very well.   In fact, they handle WMAs much more smoothly than MS ever did.  It took MS close to a year to fix an issue where my WMA files would not stream properly from OneDrive on any device, and they never did play properly in the Groove IOS app, unless you consider a song playing for 2 minutes and repeating as properly playing.  Meanwhile, the Google app plays all the same files smooth as silk.
  • Right now Microsoft to most people is just limited to Office 365 or Xbox.. thats it
  • It failed because it was years late to an already competitive market... and brought nothing new to the table.
  • Agreed.  This article is seriously overthingking a very simple reason that Microsoft's music platforms from Zune to XBox Music to Groove continually fail.  The market is saturated.  If you don't bring something seriously unique to the table there's no reason for people to switch to your service.  Can I play all the songs that I bought on (Itunes/GooglePlay/Pandora/whatever) in Groove with no intervention?  No?  Then why would I switch?
  • Yes. ITunes downloads locally in formats that Groove supports. Google Play has a downloaded that will add directly to your local library the MP3 file. Even Amazon has a downloaded and player that does the same.  Pandora is a streaming service, so you make no sense by mentioning it.  The reason why Microsoft fails is because they are not the default option on any mobile OS worth mentioning (Amazon has more mobile users on FireOS than Microsoft on Windows Mobile) and that's a huge driver for service use.  It's why WhatsApp has killed Skype. Instagram... FaceBook Messenger. Spotify. Apple Music. Mobile.  This is why Microsoft was doomed to fail the second they thought t was a good idea to use Windows Desktop as a way to push UWP/Mobile. They're about a decade too late with that. Apple did that with iTunes. That is not a viable strategy anymore.  Why do you think Apple has yet to allow third party apps to be set as the default? Developed their own Mapping service. Developed their own music streaming service? Cloud Storage. Photos.  Apple isn't even a services company, and even they realize the power of being the default. Why do you think Google insists on having preferential treatment on Google Play devices? Microsoft probably would have been better off doing an Amazon-style fork of Android and poetic some frameworks over.  Windows Mobile is pretty much over (in every way that matters). 
  • With Microsoft cancelling theses apps have they given them enough time, I use Amazon prime for music why change to groove pass I only get music, Amazon prime gets music video and next day delivery. Its a hard push against established packages.
    Windows RT gets cancelled mobile gets cancelled and now I read that surface line ending 2019 why would anyone buy any MS product.
    I've had enough could be time to buy a mac
  • Groove will be fine if you use it the free way lads! Upload your Mp3s to OneDrive
  • Upload mp3s?  Do people still do that?  This isn't 2005.
  • "Consumers are OK with adopting a new product, but what they value the most are consistency and commitment. Microsoft needs to try much harder on both fronts if it ever wants to be taken seriously in the consumer market." THIS!
  • I expect in 5-10 years MS will not be inthe consumer space and will be like IBM and only offer enterprise level products. I hate this new MS and Satya's crazy penchent for killing consumer prpoducts left and right. No person should trust MS with their money.
  • THIS! Is exactly why I left MicroSoft (or I should say MS left me). Just months ago I was all in the MS ecosystem but by the end of the year I will have zero MS products. However, I'm not sure It's a bad idea for MicroSoft at this point. Clearly with the ever growing list of consumer failures why not put all their effort into business and enterprise? They seem to be making lots of money in that space and business software is clearly in their wheelhouse. In fact, the first computers and software (like office) were business tools first and foremost. As for future forays into the consumer space why would anyone trust MS again? Would you really buy into a Surface Phone knowing that it might be the first and last of its kind? You can bet on an Apple iPhone 11, 12, 13.... But a Surface Phone 2? On the other hand your lage business would probably do very well using MS business services  
  • You are very right Daniel. Music is mobile. Groove services cannot exist effectively without mobile. Microsoft has wasted tons of goodwill and emotional investment of fans that were willing to support and stay with their mobile ecosystem, even as a third place, niche player. They (Microsoft) are now coming against the limits of what they can do without a mobile device in their ecosystem. Without your own hardware ecosystem (self-built or with partner OEMs), your software image cannot be promoted or sustained sufficiently enough to have a long-term chance in a constantly shifting market (this also goes for Office, MS!) . This goes for all forms of content (music, games, etc.). And as long as Microsoft keeps killing things that people believe in, they will lost out in the final analysis, even in software. And, tellingly, a bunch of people are getting mad enough to uproot themselves completely from Microsoft as a company. If people cannot believe in you as a company, they will walk out the door and eventually become your (much more) vocal enemies. I think MS needs a younger more connected CEO. Really been frustrated by the current CEO and spate of decisions taken under his watch.    
  • Examining why Nadella keeps failing us! The service did not fail, the man at the top did.
  • So we're gonna see another refresh with a new Spotify UWP? And that'd again take 2 years to become decent? WOW!
  • Sorry Daniel, but I disagree, as a user since zune pass the app went through hell in WM was barely ok, in the PC wasn't half bad, in other platforms was horrible and when I tried for a few days Spotify I found it 1.- cheaper 2- much much better so I switched. They had everything to go over spotify, they only needed a really good app in Android and Iphone (honestly windows mobile was a foot note only for us fans) great app in PC and Xbox and you had a user base big enough to make it work.  
  • Windows is dominant. Not good, at least not anymore. There is no innovation on the platform in the Consumer space outside of gaming. There isn't a reason to go to the store because it's windows. You can still go to a real store or Amazon and buy software that isn't locked to a specific Microsoft ID account.  People use it cause it's pre-loaded and most aren't religious about platforms. It works well enough so they keep it - otherwise the alternatives work more than well enough and run largely the same free software the jbternet is pushing.  Mobile is key because it acts as a bridge between form factors, and when you own the platforms you are able to infuse greater functionality and convenience across those form factors jato your software and services. This is Why people who buy Apple devices often end up with multiples.  One Windows short circuits this. It attempts to turn desktop basically into mobile and vice versa (continuum) which severely undercut the need for the other and threw everything out of balance.  What Microsoft needed for Windows Mobile was top notch 1at party software and integrated between Mobile and Desktop. That would have made it the de fecto choice for anyone using a Windows PC. But the continually failed to deliver that.  Apple has. Google is working on it.  Microsoft doesn't have the talent or foresight to do mobile. I think they have all the old washed up business guys. They're completely out of touch. 
  • I'm afraid I agree with all of the points and perspectives.  Microsoft is a company struggling to show the world that it has reinvented itself and is no longer deserving of the evil empire monopoly rep it earned in the 1990s. For this reason, I give Microsoft a pass.  I do see the fruit of their labors. Unfortunately, they have rebooted too many times. Brought many incomplete products to market.  Failed time and time again on messaging that they themselves controlled 100%.  Ultimately, it all goes back to Microsoft's refusal to jump into the mobile market when it was a possible contender for market share.  They may have been in the mobile phone space long before any others (pocketPC), but they weren't present when it mattered most when smart phones went critical. Enough excuses.  My main purpose in sharing my agreement and reiterating what people already know is to say: I'll still closely what their development. I'm still glad I participated in the adventures. Being on iOS now and having tried out Android, I can say I truely miss my Windows Mobile experience. I hope they continue to try and rework their vision - but this time, like the Surface, don't bring anything to market until they are full well sure that the product is ready and has a clear place and need in that market. Of all of the announcements in recent times, nothing disappointments me more than the retiring of Groove.  Like Zune before it, I enjoyed the experience even if it was incomplete on day one. I can only hope that OneDrive sticks around as it should be an essential part of their Office strategy.  I depend on OneDrive so much I don't really want to fathom my life without it.  Sure, I'll find alternatives, but nothing integrates into my life quite like OneDrive. Cheers,
  • I hate Satya Nedella
  • Sorry, this isn't the result of any one thing; it is the result of incompetence at so many levels and so many times that it boggles the mind. Zune was actually an excellent device (especially Zune HD) and service.  These days nobody buys a dedicated device, so mobile matters as the device replacement.  And Zune on the Windows Phone 7 devices was almost as good as the Zune device, and better in one way, namely downloads and streaming over cellular data. Yeah, they were late to the party compared to Apple, but they had something Apple never had--a proper subscription streaming service, so I could get just about anything I wanted for one fixed subscription price.  And that was two years before Spotify first released, so they were one of the leaders in the subscription music arena.  For a monthly cost about the same as buying a handful of songs from Apple, which you might not have liked once you bought them. But let's not forget that Zune wasn't first, before that was MSN Music and "Plays for sure" DRM devices from many vendors, which played for sure until MS killed that idea and replaced it with Zune, to the dismay of many who had bought and sold those devices.  So that was already one strike against Microsoft for dependability. Then when Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 came out, Zune on the PC and phones was gone, replaced by a poor music player app and an even worse PC sync app.  The latter was a total train wreck.  I would've been embarrased to have turned that in as a college programming project.  It is incomprehensible how the company that produced the Zune ecosystem could have regressed to something this bad. And of course Zune morphed into Xbox music, which worked with the Windows 8 Music app, but without any sensible synchronization solution for mobile other than the mess above, which didn't even properly handle subscription versus owned (ripped) music files. Finally XBox music morphed into Groove Music and a new Groove music player app on Windows 10.  The Groove music app on Windows / Phone 10 was decent, and recently has gotten to about the same level of quality as the Zune player was originally.  And it worked properly with the subscription service.  But why couldn't it have been that way all along since they started with something equally as good?  
  • I completely agree. And for some reason Groove never had DLNA to connect to external media players... Groove is simply crap. It is the core reason together with closing the mobile phone business that resulted in this collateral damage move of MS.  How many fans has MS left???
  • They simply dont get it, theyre software isnt gonna go anywhere without hardware. Meanwhile Microsoft "But but...we have OEMs for that..."
    HP exec. "Hold up"
  • Windows Phone is proof that what you say is wrong. They made the best phones on their platform and nobody wuld buy from OEMs. As a result OEMs stopped advertising and manufactring WP.  WP failed largely because of that. Not just because of the apps. OEMs are key to Microsoft success. Even google realized it, copied MS strategy, and that is how Android won. Google doesn't even make their own phone. They just choose an OEM and give them the "magic touch" (bull - cough-shith-cough cough). Sales ensue. 
  • I thought they were just ending the streaming music service, are they now going to stop selling music in the store which is its own service?
  • I really hope a Spotify UWP app will come out of it. Spotify is a way better streaming service than Groove ever was. However it won't solve the big issue of the end of Groove: MS can't offer a global subscription to all the services. Amazon is doing it, and it works (delivery, music, movies, twitch...) A MS subscription including music, movies, xbox live, mixer gold, onedrive, skype credits, etc. that would have been awesome for many people I think... and that would help MS launch new services, including them in the global subscription.
  • It would make sense to produce a Spotify app for Windows.  I can't imagine they would've done this deal otherwise.
  • Spotify for Windows 10 mobile do not work at all on my Lumia 950 XL I broutht some stocks in Microsoft when Balmer was replaced. So far that had been a success. But I wonder - is it now the right time to sell all of them?
  • Groove failed because the dev team was clearly incompetent. Remember when "Shuffle" would play the same songs in order? Remember how you still can't remove a song from now playing?! This is basic stuff. But for whatever reason nothing ever made any progress or at least not beyond a snail's pace. It started by outsourcing the Xbox Music app. Imagine what Groove could have been if they had retained the original Zune Music team.
  • Microsoft, the next Blackberry. 
  • Daniel really? You spent time on that?  Must be slow news day.  It failed because it was not fashionable and because nobody likes companies that overreach. Not matter the size. Apple's music failed for the same reason.(They hid it behind buying a popular company, Beats.)  Another obvious reason, ironically, was that groove was not obvious enough. Not many knoew about it and it was a convoluted deal. Was it music pass? was it xbox music, was it groove, was it xbox live? wtf was it?!?!?! Microsoft does that a lot... to their detriment. It appears that there is absolutely no strategy or coordination at all when it comes to consumer services. It appears as if they do not give a F.  
  • My points were better, sorry.
  • Apple Music failed? :)))) are you on kool aid, mate? Apple Music has 30 mil active is that a failure? jeez, you fanboys are hopeless
  • The have no consumer mind at all.  It's perplexing. They are a profitable company with the means. It's just odd.
  • I love Groove Music and the streaming service. When I first got the email I thought, "Yah! A bigger music libary". After reading more I thought, "Oh, so Groove's streaming will be done and we can stream Spotify's catalog in Groove music?". I kept reading it, "Great, I have to use Spotify, I hate the way their streaming service works!" I read in frusteration and with hate against MS, "I am going to lose my 100GB of OneDrive! I used that for data and music, that complelled me to get the Groove Music pass. Two birds with one stone. I am not going to buy more Onedrive storage without another benefit attached!"
    Bad move Microsoft. Screw you but mainly your stupid Stock Holders, they know nothing they are stupid dull minded buttheads!
  • Microsoft says AI is the future... Dear Microsoft, AI will be driven by mobile phones!!! You are messing up. Big time. When  CEO is  writing a book about himself, that means the company is in big trouble. Google just released the pixel 2, which can immediately translate over 40 languages... Where is Cortana? Where are your phones? Where are your products? I can't believe you closed the music service. This is a big reputational and collateral damage for Microsoft. Microsoft is in a lot of trouble... Where is the innovation????          
  • Well said, ai and ml is useless if it isn't with you when you need it. Running on someone else's platform puts you in the backseat of that platform. Google and apple are driving the car.
  • Considering I canceled my Groove Music account last week, I guess I'm not too upset. I am paid up into December thanks to Bing/Microsoft Rewards. What this does for me is to be able to merge my Groove library with my Spotify library. Do good timing. As for the move, the Groove update came this morning an the transition to Spotify is about seamless. Not everything transferred over but several hundred made it.
  • Looks like I wont be spending anymore on Microsoft Movies, there is a limit to how many times you can burn a fanboy.
    Windows7 mobile (burned), Surface2-RT (burned), Windows10 Mobile(Burned), Groove Music(Burned), even Apps for PC(Burned). for the last few days I'm felling regret for supporting the Companies Product.
  • I feel exactly the same way. There is a limit even to the most loyal customer. I too have been burned many times every time they decide to reboot or kill a product/service.
  • Just one more thing, what happens when Spotify pulls it's app from Microsoft Store? Putting faith in another company to keep supporting your product didn't work with mobile, What happened to HP building windows mobile? They announced they are ending manufacture of the Phone. That kills the whole point of UWP.
  • Agree. Music is one of those core services that really add or diminish value of a platform. People want a single ecosystem that they trust to give their credit card to. Now you'll have to register with Spotify, give them your info, etc. What a pain.
  • Sorry Dan I don't agree with your synopsis here. Groove failed due to the continued poor pr and marketing of Microsoft, I've now looked at the alternatives to groove the are all really generic you could put any banner at the top of any of them and no one would know the difference with the exception of groove, you cant say it was lack of development (certainly not the app anyway), I've shown friends and colleagues groove seeing if they know of another music service that looks and feels as sleek (with the intention of moving to that provider), two things are apparent most cant believe how nice the app is and second that they have never heard of groove, now you could excuse this as they have Apple and Android devices but they all own a pc.  
  • What are the going to promote? Groove on what mobile platform, iOS/Android? That's throwing cash away this late in the game. It was the lack of their own mobile platform that made advertising Groove frivolous. I'm right on this.
  • To me lack of marketing and PR is also the reason behind the failure of mobile, I really hate the look and feel of android (let alone the security) and Apple devices look sleek but the os is just too bland, windows mobile looks and behaves great ( most of the time ) unfortunately the windows central app is not great.
  • Spotify UWP app? How bout they first start with allowing more than 10,000 songs saved to your library. This "deal" is a joke that just ****** my music collection
  • Hey Microsoft, I wonder when you will get the memo that you suck on a large penis while slapping on all the money you successfully ganked from former fans of your platform.
    It continually amazes me that you keep putting new stuff out two years too late and no one expects you to drop support within six months.
    I enjoy investing over 2k in cash into your platform to have it burned in a big bonfire as you back down and ***** slap all your customers on the ass.
    Poor HP should have known better that you would banana rape them when they decided to drop so much R and D into a phone (Hp Elite X3) that would never reach light of day because by the time they made it, you already decided to ditch the OS.
    How can you keep all of those retarded monkeys in one building without poop stains all over the walls, I can never imagine. It 2017 and all those degrees, you would figure one person would accidentally have a good idea. I guess you guys are out of luck.
    Needless to say, I am no longer on any of Microsoft's platforms. I am using Windows only for a few months longer, and then all Mac. (Some Porn games don't work on Mac)
    At least they don't tell me that iTunes will discontinue on Dec 31st this year after I paid six month sub to it's music service.
    How stupid can you seriously be at this point. Does choking on ****** customer's money make you dumber?
    Anywho, you will continue to exist as a competing dinosaur
    until my generation hits 90, then all of your business will die. I take comfort in that. Actually, they won't, we will die of cancer from all the GMO ridden filth you call "food" that somehow made it through the FDA. So, your time will be shorter than that. Used condoms get treated better than you treat your customers. Anything at this point is just like a hormonal teenager trying desperately to be cool and suddenly realize he is a complete dork and can't last longer than 10 seconds in bed. You put the Pacific NW on the map in a bad way. I hope that weed is legal now, we can smoke away the memories of you ever making **** here. /Rant
  • Another failure from Microsoft. :(
  • My 1 millions question is: If Groove failed because of W10M Failure, What's the odds of the next "mobile platform" without a native music service?! Android has one, iOS has one... will MS offer Spotify? am I smelling an acquisition? 
  • :))) Aquisition? I do not think Spotify is that dumb to actually sell to Microshit, only to see their work killed off in a matter of months by an obsessed CEO.
  • Has anyone considered that "Windows Phone" and "Windows 10 Mobile" doesn't roll off the tongue? Make no mistake "iPhone" and "Android" have a cool sounding factor to consumers: The cool factor sells products.
  • Movies and TV app safe for now... Sheesh... The whole Microsoft consumer eco system is still shutting down. Amazed xbox hasn't been binned...yet
  • I am sure that moron Nutella has nightmares about the Xbox. His Christmas wish to Santa must be : Can I please get a Yes from the board to nail down Xbox?? Pretty please?
  • i have 0 trust for ms right now. heavely reconcitering my xbox one x preorder. 
  • I personally don't use Groove to stream, but to buy music.  When it was removed, well, that made me switch to buy music from iTunes.  And also, it's one less reason to use Windows 10's Groove music player, and switch back to iTunes. iTunes may be bloated, but their queue system is much better than Groove.
  • Great write-up and back story on this Dan. I held my pass from the Zune days myself. I was beyond blown away that they were killing my favorite music service and the absolute best Windows 10 mobile had to offer.  I've kept two services for a year now. Google Music since you also get YouTube Red and Groove. As soon as they released the Groove Music app update yesterday I immediately moved all my playlists to Spotify and canceled my Groove pass. I'm beyond upset I had to do that but I've had it. Pass is cancelled and my HP Elite x3 is up for sale on Swappa if anyone wants it. 
  • Pandora Plus now available on windows 10/w10m :)
  • Congrats Microsoon. Your monumental FAILURE in mobile will be remembered forever in history! What a joke of a company, really. This CEO managed to turn MS into a dissaster! Yeah, they make some more money, but who on earth trusts them anymore? Money is not everything for a company. Confidence, commitment etc...these terms also matter a lot, and for MS are completely missing! Even HP had some words about it, though a little too soft I would say.
  • On a side note, not happy with the migration..Spotify only allows 10,000 songs max in your library...I had 18,000 on groove...
  • This pretty much rejoins what I've posted here Interesting point in the article is the chatter about deeper integration betwenn Groove and Spotify? That is what I mentioned should have been done right away or at least part of the official annoucement, even with a "coming soon" label...
    That would pottentially have turned the announcement into something much more positive.
    Let's hope this whole stroy will turn up into a bad Microsoft communication and the chatter will prove to become true
  • MS, get this straight, if you managed to get Daniel to talk against you, trust me you have screwed up big time. It's no easy task to make Dan flip on you. Get your act together MS.
  • I like having a Windows Phone because I like to live in fear 
  • When will the Microsoft shareholders realize that the failure of any organization and/or its products lies squarely on the shoulders of the CEO?
  • I think Microsofts problems in Mobile, Grove etc. go beyond just indicating they didn't have a mobile platform. Microsoft really sucks at releasing to more than just the US products.  Windows Phone products, Band, Zune, some apps all are released in the US first.  Then as they work the kinks out they push them to other countries, sometimes two or three years later in a new generation.  However, by that time the buzz is gone and the products languish and soon are removed. They need to work the kinks out first, then release to many more markets than the US at the same (or shortly after) the US release.
  • Board of directors and MSFT investors must take the advantage of Nokia's demise lesson when the legend company was killed by Elop. Kick Nadella out before it is too late #kick_nadella
  • Little additional FYI about music pass codes not yet redeemed. It's taken me 2 hours over the phone to get my 120% store credit for the codes unused for music pass. Customer support, although very helpful, knew nothing about their own refund policy. Had to explain that my codes registers as expired because the Music service itself is no longer active, I needed to explain to them that non promo redeem codes purchases do not expire. They also do not realize that the refund is for store credit. Customer support seemed uninformed about the whole process, I had to point out their own policy through the Groove Music and Spotify: FAQ page and at one point had to show them where to find this information. Having an email receipt of these purchases expedited the process since they were very strict on verifying validation of these codes. Lastly the store credit refunded to me has an expiration date which is only a year.
  • Now I don't trust Microsoft at all. There is no point in investing in their services unless its MS Office.
  • Man I'm sitting here with my newly bought Surface Book (PB) i7 256GB that I just paid off. And reading all these comments of hatred - backed up with reasonable reasons of course - makes me so darn sad. I used to be a Windows Phone Fanatic, always here in Windows Central looking for good news. Dang it hurts to see a company fall, a company I used to relentlessly root for. I'm also a hard-core fan boy for DC, and Marvel's kicking their butts too, I think I root for failing companies lol. Something's wrong with me :P
  • Don’t normally comment on blogs however after seeing yet another failed attempt by MS it’s really difficult to continue to be a supporter of MS products and services.   Having had the latest Windows based phones, surface laptops, Xbox and MS online services, I always promoted MS to my friends, family and coworkers. MS consistently dropping products and services have definitely have changed my loyalties over time. I’ve always expected MS to be a leader in so many areas however it appears as reaction or catchup an ultimately failure. I just don’t understand why MS doesn’t own the home assistant market such as Google or Amazon. Strangely I keep going into Microsoft store to see new products for home automation as well however – nothing. Dismayed and dissatisfied – how unfortunate
  • spotify is not the answer for Microsoft.    Just transferred all my music and I am disgusted.   Spotify doesn't have music videos.   I have a 400 + video playlist mix on Groove.   Very entertaining with the inclusion of the videos.   Until spotify offers this.  They will always b sub pat in my eyes.   Ready to just be on YouTube and scrap Spotify.   
  • What's really frustrating is that they had a great product with Zune. At the time, it was ahead of everyone else by offering a music subscription service, podcast support, social and sharing features and a very slick, visually impressive UX. For some reason, it didn't set the world on fire, although people who actually tried it, loved it.  When Windows Phone 7 came out, it had integrated Zune support. I immediately got on board. Had all my podcasts, playlists and I was rocking with it. I loved the way it would take over the lock screen and show you cool artist and album art. It was wonderful. Then Windows 8 came, and microsoft decided to kill Zune and rename it Xbox Music. For some reason, they also removed a lot of the cool features that made Zune great. No more lock screen album art, no more podcast support, crappy interface using the new hamburger menu paradigm rather than the fluid metro design language. It was a big, huge letdown and a disappointment. You can't take away a great product and replace it with a crappy one. But they did that. That's when I first dropped my Zune (eh Music) Pass.  Most people hated Xbox Music, so they decided to reboot the service (for the third time) and called it Groove. It was better than Xbox Music, yes how could it not? But it was still not as good as Zune had been. Also they were now playing catch-up with all their competitors. Even though I can say that Groove is pretty decent today, it was just too little, too late. Three reboots and a lot of wasted effort and customer confidence shattered forever. I no longer have a Windows Phone (using an iPhone 7+ now), and the Groove app was pretty bad on iOS, so I deleted it. I use it on my PC and on Xbox where it is much better. Now I will have to migrate to a new service? No, I'm done with Microsoft consumer adventures. I will keep using Xbox and my PC, but I won't "buy in" to any new MS experiment until they show me that they can focus on something enough to make it succeed in the market. That's why I'm not buying a Surface anything this year. I will wait and see if they commit to the hardware line and keep it upgraded and competitive before giving them any more money.    
  • I have about six Zune HDs and I still use them all along with the software. Very easy and manageable. I was never a subscriber to any music subscription service, so that aspect doesn't affect me. However, I do think Grooves' fail was due to lack of Windows Phone users. Seems logical.