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Miracast to require new Windows Phone hardware, Lumia 1520 might make the cut

Miracast to require new Windows Phone hardware, Lumia 1520 might make the cut

If you’ve been eagerly awaiting Miracast support in Windows Phone 8.1, and are excited that you’ll be able to upgrade your Windows Phone, you may have to pipe down slightly as your current device may not be compatible. This news comes from Joe Belfiore on Twitter, stating that only the Nokia Lumia 1520 from current (and previous) generation Windows Phones may be compatible.

It’s a downer for consumers who were looking forward to grabbing the Windows Phone 8.1 update on current hardware to take advantage of Miracast. That said, we’re already starting to see new hardware be announced for Microsoft’s next major OS update, so perhaps you’ll be tempted to upgrade to a new model?

Either way, we’ll hopefully have more details on the peer-to-peer wireless screen casting in the near future.

via: GSMArena

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Miracast to require new Windows Phone hardware, Lumia 1520 might make the cut

221 Comments

I's screencasting via Wifi Direct from your phone to another device, let's say, a Tv or receiver wich supports miracast.

Airplay handles audio and video. Think miracast just does video. They really need play to through XB1. No reason they couldn't pipe phone and computer display through it.

Miracast (like Wireless Display technology of Intel) does support both video and audio casting to supported devices (e.g Smart TV, Netgear push2tv etc). Similar to DLNA but does not require a network since it uses WIFI direct (peer to peer).

whats the difference,we already have nokia play to and it works perfectly with my WD TV Live HD Media Player

is miracast any different except for the dedicated miracast hardware,for me it wont be a biggie since none of my hardware support miracast anyway (except for a few unused droids) and DLNA support in WP is great and smooth

as for mirroring,Nokia Beamer works decent (needs a bit of work) 

Well, playto relies on DLNA, and in my experience that has many problems with many devices, typically only supports media files (which are converted on the fly with sometimes not pretty results).

Miracast allows you to mirror your screen in Full HD, all of it, and in real time. You can use it for anything from watching a movie, giving a powerpoint presentation, or showing pictures to your family and friends on a big screen (without needing a PC, nor an internet connection, and without the sometimes horrible lag experienced by Nokia beamer).

I personally use it with my projector at home, because it's not a network device nor DLNA ready, and Miracast is so much more convenient than having HDMI cables going through the whole house. Also allows me to use the projector with multiple sources (Desktop PC, my Surface2, was hoping my Lumia 925 with WP8.1...) with no hussles... Actually, pairing is so simple and it works so well for me after purchasing an inexpensive Netgear adapter that I'm considering getting one for everyone in my family. That way when I get to their place I can show whatever is in my phone/tablet straight away.

personally i dont see myself using Miracast at the moment as such, Play To works well enough , Nokia Beamer is a great concept but needs serious bugfixes but atleast its better than nothing

Though i do hope the new SYNC for cars gets Carplay Like Features with current devices as well

Sure, but what if your Wlan network is crouded, you'll not enjoy fast experience, your video will stutter or your family will get subpar internet service Miracast is Wifi Direct, it doesn't rely on your Wlan network or stress it .

Yes, DLNA and Miracast have similarities but also have big differences. You can use Play To (DLNA) to stream you music, video or picture to a renderer (WDTV, smart TV) and for some that is good enough. Miracast, however, streams your screen display and audio to (eg). smart TV much like using an HDMI cable so even your home screen and live tiles will appear on your TV. This is useful when you have lets say NBA League pass app on your WP and want to watch it on a big screen (smart TV or any miracast supported device) without using any cable. You can use Miracast for this purpose, both audio and video will be projected. You can not use PlayTo in this case.

xbox one is a downgrade from the 360(only for media capabilities)

it no longer supports WMC extender support nor does it use Play To :(

overall its better since it uses a Windows Kernel and hence apps etc will be better in future(even WMC may come out somehow )

I use miracast and can say it runs both video and audio to the TV.
And it also can connect your computer to any USB devices connected to the TV.

I use miracast on my dell venue pro to my vizio tv. I use a rocket fish miracast adapter. I am able to stream anything

No, miracast stream all of your display to a tv. It's like having an HDMI cable connected to your phone. DLNA and airplay, only streams audio and video.

No.  Miracast can be used in a lot of situations where Airplay (and ChromeCast) won't work.  Miracast is also a simple open standard while Airplay is proprietary. 

Similar concept, but very different in actuality. Play To uses different technology and requires both devices to be on the same network, Miracast is point-to-point. Think of it as a second monitor, but wireless. In Windows, you can mirror or extend displays. On phones it's most likely just mirroring.

Miracast uses WiFi-Direct for it's connection standard, but it is more than just WiFi-Direct.  There are also audio/video codecs that are part of the standard.

 

You will get WiFi-Direct in WP8.1 if the hardware supports it.  The OS supports it, but if the hardware WiFi chip is not WiFi-Direct capable then it obviously won't work.  Unfortunately, I suspect that the reason Miracast isn't going to work on most current devices is because the hardware doesn't support WiFi-Direct.

Marketing.

The MSM8960/Adreno 225 is fully capable of Miracast output, it's an internal feature.

The Lumia 820, 920, 1020, HTC One X (NA), Samsung Galaxy S3, etc, all run on the same SOC.

The latter two are Miracast capable.

The MSM8960/Adreno 225 is fully capable of Miracast output, it's an internal feature, it doesn't require external hardware apart from the SOC itself.

The Lumia 820, 920, 1020, HTC One X (NA), Samsung Galaxy S3, etc, all run on the same SOC.

The latter two are Miracast capable.

Isn't there a differance in RAM between the Lumias and S3, then the Xperia T and V is a better compairison check these links

Miracast enable devices http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracast
Specs for Xperia T and V http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xperia
Mobiles with similar MSM8960 SOC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_%28system_on_chip%29#Snapdragon_S4

Another interesting thing is that Nokia lunached this article in 2012 when the lanched the 920

The Adreno 225 GPU ensures smooth gameplay, high frame rates, and enhanced scenes with jaw-dropping effects. But it’s not just games that benefit. Augmented reality such as that used by Nokia City Lenses, 2D to 3D conversion, and Miracast (Wireless Display) all gain, too.

http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/12/11/how-qualcomm-cooks-up-the-noki...

It has nothing to do with the RAM.

Miracast and WiFi Direct are an internal feature of the SOC and the WiFi Radio Module.

Take for instance the Samsung Ativ S: it's a Galaxy S3 with Windows Phone aboard, it has the same SOC and WiFi/BT/FM radio module as the Lumia 820/920/925/1020 (MSM8960 and RTR8600).

The Galaxy S3 comes in several model variants (either Qualcomm S4 or Exynos) with 1GB or 2GB of RAM (depending of the intended market).

All of them have Miracast on board.

The MSM8960/Adreno 225 is fully capable of Miracast output, it's an internal feature, it doesn't require external hardware apart from the SOC itself.

The Lumia 820, 920, 1020, HTC One X (NA), Samsung Galaxy S3, etc, all run on the same SOC.

The latter two are Miracast capable.

Right, and all that was needed to run WP8 on WP7 devices (sans a very small number of things that really did need new HW) was a firmware update, too. But no OEMs did it because you don't just pop out a whole new set of drivers for a chipset in a couple weeks. It takes many months and costs millions of dollars to develop, for a chipset they will never use again in new phones. The chipset in the 1520 will still be used for a while longer, so they had already written the Miracast drivers for it. Merging those drivers back into the 1520 firmware (and probably the 929 since it's the same chipset) is fairly easy and makes customers happy, which is why they are doing it.

Your argument is invalid, WP7 could not have been updated. Hardware encryption requires supporting hardware. Even if it were a valid point, the WiFi direct module in all the WP8 phones have no use, whatsoever. They do nothing right now. Nothing. Marketing will ensure they do nothing.

That's exactly what happened with original Surface RT. Microsoft didn't enable it even though Tegra 3 supports it. Really disappointed.

It's not a conspiracy.  The hardware probably just isn't there.  It's not just about the graphics capabilities or firmware as others have suggested.  The hardware WiFi chip has to support a specific version of WiFi-Direct or above.  Windows Phones use Qualcomm processors.  Qualcomm only started to support WiFi-Direct in more recent versions of their processors and to begin with it was only in the higher end quad core versions.  Some flagship Android phones have been using those quad cores, but WP devices have mostly been the dual core versions.

 

This is the only real disadvantage to Miracast compared to competing technology.  It only works on relatively recent devices.  In the mobile world "recent" is like 3 months or less. :) 

As I already stated above, take for instance the Samsung Ativ S: it's a Galaxy S3 (Qualcomm variant) with Windows Phone aboard, it has the same SOC and WiFi/BT/FM radio module as the Lumia 820/920/925/1020 (MSM8960 and RTR8600).

The Galaxy S3 comes in several model variants (either Qualcomm S4 or Exynos) with 1GB or 2GB of RAM.

All of them have Miracast on board, doesn't matter if Qualcomm or Exynos.

I call it bullcrap. The video on YouTube about the Nokia 920 8.1 preview show a tittle on setting > screen mirroring's then state"This phone does not support wireless ect."

yeah given how slow airplay mirroring is and how fast Play To is, id say miracast may not be as fast as Play To

play to works flawless for my bravia internet tv and my WD tv live hd media player

Miracast is basically real time.  I use it all the time on various devices (Windows tablets, Kindles, Droid phones) and the lag is so minimal it's hard to even measure.  Maybe 0.1 seconds? 

Well not everyone can buy a new phone every 6 months. Imagine people buying a phone and WP8 launching next month and announcing that it will require new hardware.

Same thing I and most of the people I know here in India buy a new phone and use it atleast 2 years before getting a new one.

Bro, you can get a Lumia 520 OFF CONTRACT for like $50...and honestly it's a very slick machine. I often use it even though I have a 1020

Who bought a wp7 six months ago? That's your own fault then. You didn't do your research. My Lumia 920 is one and a half years old and will get the update with no issues.

Was that for me? Well I use a NL 620, I was just referring to other guys who might find themselves in such a situation. And imagine if wp8.1 wldnt be available for older wp8s then I wld still be stuck with the phone for at least a year...

WP7 launched in Oct/Nov 2010.  WP 8 launched Oct 2012.

WP7 had two full years of existence.  If someone bought a phone 6 months before WP8 came out, they weren't paying attention and it's their own fault.

As a previous Lumia 900 owner I felt this pain, but I do understand that there are minimum specs for WP8 and all.

Same here. I bought the 900 almost as soon as it came out and shortly after that, the 920 came out. I had to buy my 920 on Craigslist

Sorry but no minimum specs here are involved:

The MSM8960/Adreno 225 is fully capable of Miracast output, it's an internal feature, it doesn't require external hardware apart from the SOC itself.

The Lumia 820, 920, 1020, HTC One X (NA), Samsung Galaxy S3, etc, all run on the same SOC.

The latter two are Miracast capable.

 

Same here, but it's really not Microsoft's fault that AT&T insisted on having a custom phone built for them (the lumia 800 had been available internationally for several months) and that AT&T finally released it as a flagship when WP7 had been out for 2 years and WP8 was close to being announced. God forbid, the US carriers just stick with the default phones used everywhere else in the world instead of the exclusive hacked crap that they have custom built.

It uses the same chipset as the 1520, so I'd be really surprised if Nokia didn't add Miracast support to its firmware too. Twitter isn't exactly the right forum for sharing product info that is more complicated than one sentence. Joe really needs to have a blog where he can write a few paragraphs that explains everything, if he wants to be sharing this kind of stuff with the world.

I really hope so, or it is a shame...A flagship phone MUST have ALL. No excuses... I can (maybe) accept no support from glance, but nothing more !!

I assume the Icon was not mentioned because it is a WP8.1 device, not a WP 8.0 device. Joe specifically stated 'current device' not new 8.1 device.

Me too. I wonder if any car stereo support miracast. You wouldn't have the controls given to the stereo like with mirrorlink though. Nokia did support it before windows phone so hopefully one day.

I have to imagine the Icon is compatible as well, given its the same internals as the 1520 and 930... However, its Verizon so who knows

Well it could come down to that the screen of the icon doesn't support display memory in its screen, same reason it can't get glance

That shouldn't affect it in the least.  All it's doing is routing the display over the WiFi.  The phone's screen shouldn't even play into it.

I was looking forward to enjoying Miracast on my Ativ S, but I'm planning to pick up a 930 as soon as it's financially feasible... Oh well, I guess this is just extra motivation to start saving for it. :)

As much as i am bummed about this news, at least, for me in real world situations, this wont matter much. but it would be cool to have it, regardless. Maybe its about time to upgrade

This isn't one of the things i was looking forward to, but it would've been nice to have the option... :(

Found the tweet: "@sarang20067 WP8.1 supports Miracast but it will require new HW. MAYBE 1520 is new enough, I'm not sure. most WP8 hw won't be." So it's not even definite on the 1520.

That's a shame - though i imagine the icon/930 should be alright... And maybe the 625?

On the track of hardware limiting future functions; what about usb otg - would that be a similar issue, wrong usb socket and all that?

The fast march of technological progress lol. At least current phones will get wp8.1!

Hope the Icon is included for the sake of its owners. It would be lame if there was a tiny difference between the icon and the 930 that prevented this.

Meh.
Miracast is not what will make me waste money on a 930 without a microSD anytime soon.
Besides, why would I keep stuff to stream in a phone with very limited storage capacity?
There are plenty of other solutions around that don't involve buying new hardware.

You can cast streaming video or a presentation with miracast too. Not just stored video. Your Netflix and Hulu apps could cast to a big screen tv for example.

Finally, because Netflix and Hulu are so rare on TVs!
Point taken though.
Vimeo would be a better example. ;)

I really wanted it because I live out in the country where I have to have satellite internet or a Verizon mifi for my house. However, my phone has unlimited data, so I would've been able to stream unlimited Netflix or Hulu again.

According to this article no, but Android devices with similar specs are and as I mentioned futher up did Nokia mention that the not only game would benefit from the gpu in the 920 also thing like Miracast.

ah so that 'project my screen' option that i saw lurking around the settings screen is only for the elite phones. such an apple move.

Whatever. Having to buy a new phone doesn't bother me. The OEMs not making a device with the specs I want is what bothers me. Tired of settling, waiting and then a device like the L1520 or Icon is released. Neither interest me. Nor does the 930.

I figured miracast would be one of the features that would require new hardware. But does anyone else find it sad that the head of windows phone can't tell us which, if any, of the current hardware will work?

It would've been better for him to reply with a list of known devices that support it, but responses like that happen occasionally nowadays with social media. I expect them to release that info before long.

Posted via the WPC App for Android!

Its likely that he doesn't want to commit because there are a ton of things outside of their control such as firmware being updated to enable the functionality, whether or not the feature was enabled on the SoC the manufacturer used (they may have agreed not to use it to avoid potential licensing costs or some other such madness), the carriers may not agree to having it in the phone they support (US thing primarily I'd assume) the various parties may not want to invest in a phone that didn't make significant margins for them since the testing of new features means paying people to do it so it doesn't brick your phone when you get it. 

And so on...

Gone are the days where you buy a 600$ vacuum and it comes with lifetime support.  Now you buy a 30$ vacuum but need to deal with it if it doesn't work for more than 90 days.  Or you buy the 600$ model for 500$ but pay another $200 in maintenance contracts for 2 years of additional support.  Or in this instance, contract phone service with insurance that sometimes nearly doubles the price of the device...

 

Ahhhhh progress...

Windows phone users... I am shocked there are so many who do.  Samsung Androids have had it for a long time and the market response there was excited but quickly became, "meh."

Where is this feature when you can Augmented Reality Mc Donald logo on the piece of paper and WP will give result all the locations and information of the Mc Donald nearby you?
.
It was LG to bring this kind of feature on WP in the early stages of WP?

Does the WP8.1 update bring Wifi Direct sharing like on Android ?
Wifi Direct is much faster than Bluetooth and IMO it will replace Bluetooth in the coming years , i think this is one of the major lacks of Windows Phone ...
 

there is option for project my screen on low end WP lumia 630 ......so i think high end WP will sure get it or perhaps my 620 too.....lets hope so....

@Rich if Miracast works over WiFi direct, it means that only 1520 will support WiFi direct too... ?
I see on //Build an awesome multiplayer example game via WiFi direct, they used 3 Surfaces but they said it can be done with WP 8.1 too....

i think so wifi direct is a software based thing and i think it doesnt even need any higher specs, so i think wifi direct will be available on low end devices too like lumia 520 which can be used for file sharing.

I came to this site looking for 930 news on different US carriers and now this! I will just stick to Android, since Nokia doesn't want more WP8 users in the USA as they make us switch to ATT to get top flight Nokia Phones. I have Tmobile and the 925 is great, but be honest, it's no 1020 or 1520. Even Apple figured it out and eventually released iPhone on all carriers so they could compete against Androids rising numbers. I think Microsoft just isn't fully commited to the high end phone business and is happy with a few people using their phones in US and they want the low end market worldwide now. I love WP, but will not be forced to use any carrier....BS!!

Not wrong, just ironic. In a WP forum, posting about a the WP device  via an Android device.
Like a Russian Soldier wearing an American glag outfit and talking about how good Russia is.
Just ironic.

I suppose.. My job is strict with personal devices. I'm just glad I can still keep up with wp news while at work. :-)

Posted via the WPC App for Android!

At the end of the day this is really a niche feature. It's cool, and it has purpose, but the people it matters to are the type of people who will upgrade anyway. This is just a checkmark on justifications. It's not an earth-shattering feature. Most people will be fine with Play To until they upgrade and Miracast becomes more prevalent. Besides, you're more likely to find devices that support DLNA/Play To than you are Miracast.

Exactly.  Every DLNA device I've tried has worked fine with my Lumia 1020.  I see nothing to make me throw my money away on a new device for a niche feature and not-quite-as-good camera.

Regardless of what Microsoft says in its ads, the beta test isn't over.  Remember Icon owners, no complaining!!!

Regards,

Lumia 900 and Titan II owners.

Icon has Miracast as well as the rest of the 8.1 devices.

Not a personal shot at you coach.

Let that bs 900 complaint go already. Bottom line if you can't afford to upgrade or are not smart enough to figure out how to upgrade then the complaint shouldn't be about the phone but your own common sense.

Regarding the Lumia 900, I assume you weren't a WP7 user or just happened to not see any othe "The Beta Test is over" Lumia 900 commercials.  So what does common sense have to do with buying a flagship phone and having it being annouced 30 days later that a new OS annouced that won't make it to your device?  

Here's why I really wanted Miracast. This is a real scenario. Friend asked me: I like your phone. Can I use it with Chromecast? My response: well, Chromecast is old school in a few weeks for me. I'll be able to project all apps on my TV. Not only a select few.

So now... Let me backtrack that thought...

I'd love to get a green 1520 but I know as soon as I buy it they will announce the 1525 is coming in the fall and I'll be kicking myself for not waiting...Besides, I'm hoping the 1525 has Qi wireless charging built in since I currently have 3 Qi chargers for my 920.

Yeah, you got a point! I actually do not have a 'need' to upgrade my 920, only a 'want'. Even though I love the 1520 I guess it should be wiser to wait until the end of this year to really decide which phone I'll buy to replace my 920. Maybe Nokia/Microsoft will offer something that has a more complete set of features. It really is a bummer the 1520 has no Qi charging unless we put the wireless charging plate on it. Can't wait to see a Green 1520 live though!

Totally agree that the "need" to upgrade is more of a want for me as well...The 1520 is a beautiful phone but my 920 will get the developer preview of 8.1 next week and I'm patiently waiting to see both the 1525 and 1025 this fall *crossing my fingers*...Also, the TRUE 920 successor is not the 930 (just an Icon)...Nokia probably won't release it until around this fall when 920 buyers will have their 2 year contracts expiring on AT&T.

I thought I saw that the Dev Preview is delayed a week and we wouldn't see it until the week after next....?

Its the Windows Phone 7.5 to 8 update all over again! I'm so glad I still have my 7.8 Lumia 900 so I don't have to go through the pain of waiting two years to upgrade again!

No, it's not. First off, this is a hardware issue, not software. Second, the Play To app works just fine.  I've never run across a device I couldn't use it with.  So why would I worry about Miracast?

What the shit? The WiFi direct module, which I think is in in every current WP8 device (at least all Nokia), is completely useless. Literally. Nothing in WP8 uses it. If miracast won't either, we all bought phones with useless extra hardware that artificially increased the price.

It works just fine, thank you.  I use Play To quite frequently, and never had an issue.  What's the problem?

"WiFi direct" is the hardware module required for miracast. It is not just normal "WiFi", which is what dlna (play to) operates on.

Been a fan for 3 years. Was exciting to grow together but not much seems to have progressed. Especially critical app updates and 3rd party support. I'm done...

 

I'd like to find at least ONE app that would allow my 928 to mirror or send photos/music to my smart TV. PLAY TO totally blows and I've never been able to get it to work.

It's never failed on my 1020.  I used it with my Samsung Blu-ray player and now use it with my Xbox One.  Works like a charm for me and for my wife's 1020, too.

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