Apple wants to unify iPad, iPhone, and Mac apps – but will it work?

Microsoft was both lauded and derided for its Universal Windows Platform (UWP). UWP is meant to give developers a way to share code and resources easily between app projects, making it easier to target different hardware like phone, PC, tablets, and Xbox.

UWP is not a "write once, deploy everywhere" model, though in some ways it can be used as such. Nor is it only about phones, which apparently are on the sideline now for Microsoft. UWP is about building a next-generation app platform that can quickly adapt to new hardware paradigms, whether it is Windows Mixed Reality, traditional PCs, tablets, mobile devices, or your living room.

In a new report from Bloomberg, Mark Gurman, a writer who is well known for his accurate Apple leaks, details how the company is attempting to combine "iPhone, iPad and Mac apps to create one user experience."

Let's talk about what that means.

Rumored for late 2018

It is important to note that Gurman's report explicitly states that such a project is still in development:

The plans are still fluid, the people said, so the implementation could change, or the project could still be canceled.

If it goes forward, the project likely won't be announced until summer 2018 with a rollout in a preview that fall, according to Gurman. Apple declined to confirm the report.

While the shift to a more unified app platform is a great move, the idea that Apple will have solved it all out the gate is probably misguided. Of course, without any details about this system, it is too early to speculate on how powerful or flawed it may be.

Instead, I'd like to shift to where Microsoft is right now and going compared to Apple.

Microsoft's unified Core, OS, apps, and shell

Microsoft's UWP will be hitting the three-year mark in late 2018, right around when Apple's first attempt at app unification may debut.

While Microsoft continues to build out APIs and bridges – and more importantly bring legacy Win32 apps to the Microsoft Store – it is also very deep into unifying its user shell experience a.k.a. Composable Shell or CShell.

What exactly IS a Universal Windows Platform (UWP) app?

This difference is massive. While Apple embarks down the same path as Microsoft (and Google too, for that matter), Microsoft is many steps ahead. Here are some examples of how:

  • Windows OneCore – Microsoft successfully unified its kernel and OS core system across devices in 2015.
  • Windows UWP - Microsoft unified its app platform, which runs on Win32 systems (x86, x64), ARM, and Xbox.
  • Windows 10 on ARM - Announced in late 2016, Microsoft this month revealed the first devices running Windows 10 on ARM, so-called Always Connected PCs – a full port of the OS that can run on Qualcomm Snapdragon processors. These support Windows 10 S, Windows 10 Home, and Windows 10 Pro the OS can emulate Win32 applications too.
  • Windows Core OS - As exclusively reported by our Senior Writer Zac Bowden, Microsoft is making Windows 10 modular. Once finished, Windows 10 will look the same, but components like Win32 and telephony support for cellular calls can be added or removed by OEMs. Windows Core OS will also pave the way for a true UWP-version of Windows 10 without any native Win32 support that will eventually supplant Windows 10 S.
  • Windows CShell - With the same kernel, a flexible core, and unified app platform, the last piece is the shell – or user interface (UI) – that itself adapts to the screen. Taking the idea of Continuum to the OS level, CShell lets devices adjust their UIs for different tasks and experiences. A device running full Windows 10 for the desktop would be able to take on a Windows 10 Mobile UI to run in phone-mode. Or, a Windows 10 PC could take on the Xbox UI when in gaming mode. The possibilities are endless.

These tools combined make Windows 10 an OS that can live anywhere, on any device, with any screen size, running any processor. With UWP, the apps can run on all those devices with only minor changes.

It also means there is no Windows 10 Mobile anymore, because what made that OS unique has now been integrated into Windows 10 proper.

Apple has some of this with shared components between iOS and macOS, but its app story is very far behind. Apple has not – to our knowledge – taken any steps to unify its UI across macOS and iOS. There have long been rumors that Apple plans to turn iOS into macOS, including building MacBooks with ARM processors, but those plans have not been confirmed.

Google is also busy combining Android and Chrome OS, but it too faces the same problems and challenges as Microsoft did and now Apple too. All three companies are embarking down the same path, but Microsoft is many steps ahead there, even though it's lagging in the fastest growth area for computing: smartphones.

Apple's advantage is phones

There's no doubt that Apple has a lot going with the iPhone. Not only does the iPhone still get premium apps faster than Android, but the app quality, in general, is higher due to the controlled and limited hardware choices.

Nonetheless, there are plenty of questions about Apple's approach to app unification. Will developers merely port the apps from iOS to macOS? How robust will the tools be? How far along are the APIs?

Microsoft developers have quickly learned that building out a unified platform that seeks to emulate Win32 abilities takes years.

There are also concerns about UX and UI. Specifically, Apple developers who make apps for the iPhone – but not the iPad – will have a hard time scaling up to a 27-inch iMac display. There are a lot of considerations for screen size, type and modality (touch or non-touch) that need to be considered. For instance, adding mouse support – since Macs currently do not support touch screens – is critical and not trivial.

Looking at what Google has attempted with Android apps on Chrome OS, it is evident that "write once, run everywhere" is an idealized, but non-practical dream. Sure, it can work, but it is far from perfect.

Microsoft has already learned a lot of these hard lessons going back to Windows 8. Putting phone apps on a PC is merely not enough. I wrote earlier this year about the Microsoft Store refocusing on premium desktop apps and games and that is what happened.

Microsoft may focus on desktops with UWP — here's why you should care

Merely letting users run an iOS version of Instagram on a full Mac PC may seem like a simple solution, but long-term the novelty wears off. It's also not clear that iOS apps – the majority of which are phone-focused – have a purpose on a desktop or laptop PC. For instance, it's not evident that many people on desktops utilize the Uber app for Windows 10 – why would that be different for Apple?

The same problem that existed for Microsoft – who wants to run phone apps on a PC? – applies to Apple. Microsoft fixed that by doubling down on desktop apps and by bringing classic Win32 programs to the Microsoft Store. But is Apple trying to fix its desktop problem by running phone apps?

Unifying is hard

I see a lot of people giving Apple a lot of room here, saying "Oh, they will get it right." But none of this is easy. Microsoft has had a learning curve, as has Google. All three companies are struggling with a shifting computing world where device usage and experiences are changing.

Microsoft has its Win32 legacy to contend with for business and enterprise. It's the company's Achilles heel – it is what makes Windows 10 PCs secure, but also what holds it back. Apple is in the same situation with iOS. It is arguably the company's most forward-looking and modern OS, but Apple will have a problem with macOS completely stagnating for features and apps.

Can running iOS apps on a MacBook Pro fix the problem of users who are unhappy with its recent redesign and lack of "pro" features? It won't hurt it, but it's not apparent that it will solve Apple's seemingly reliance on just selling phones (60 percent of Apple's revenue is from the iPhone alone).

Microsoft's problem is palpable. Without a phone, its mobile game is weak. While PC sales are rebounding, and the Surface line is kickstarting a revival, there still needs to be a phone-ish device on the market. We're expecting sometime in 2018 a new generation of foldable hardware from Microsoft, meant to leapfrog current smartphones, but there are just as many questions there as there are for Apple's app strategy for macOS.

What the future of Windows 10 will look like. #AskDanWindows Episode 35

The takeaway here is not that Apple may do this better than Microsoft, but that both companies face the same problem. Does there need to be a winner? Not really. Both companies have thrived for the last 15 years, and there is no reason to think that will change.

It's more interesting that Microsoft, Google, and Apple see OS convergence as a solution, not something to be avoided.

Daniel Rubino
Editor-in-chief

Daniel Rubino is the Editor-in-chief of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft since 2007 when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, laptops, next-gen computing, and for some reason, watches. Before all this tech stuff, he worked on a Ph.D. in linguistics, watched people sleep (for medical purposes!), and ran the projectors at movie theaters because it was fun.

181 Comments
  • As long as the isheeps believe on it. They will be like the first one to invent it.
  • not only the so called "first to invent" but also "first to be innovative in the market" as if Microsoft and Samsung haven't already been doing this since 2014.
  • As long as the Winsheep believe in whatever it is they believe in.  
  • which is ???
  • Yes, please, tell me... I don't know what I am supposed to believe anymore regarding Windows. I am a sheep with no dog to herd me.
  • Exactly.. and because of the developer mindset in regards to Apple, this will work. And in two years time apples unified app implementation will be far more used and probably light years ahead of UWP..
    I'm a big Microsoft follower and write in c# .Net myself, but there is absolutely no denying that Microsoft in general is too slow!..
  • So true, and that's what stings the most. Also in apples favor is that they own 100% of the ecosphere. Only apple makes Apple products, so integration is that much easier for them. I'll just sit in the corner with my Lumia 950....
  • "Exactly.. and because of the developer mindset in regards to Apple, this will work. And in two years time apples unified app implementation will be far more used and probably light years ahead of UWP"
    But will that change the shift for MBP sales and adoption, which is now favoring Surface and PC 2-in-1s? Apple's laptop/desktop problem goes deeper than just not having phone-apps to install.
  • Sorry Dan. Apple just simply announcing this is way ahead of Microsoft. UWP will not be adopted like you hope. Any developer who was contemplating UWP, may now have changed their mind. Shoot didn't even Microsoft with their IOS and Android apps that are not even UWP?
  • @Rubino "It also means there is no Windows 10 Mobile anymore, because what made that OS unique has now been integrated into Windows 10 proper." I understand what you are saying, but unless you understand W10M to be nothing more than a brand/marketing name, this is a misleading way of communicating what is actually happening. It is detrimental to gaining a correct understanding of how Windows is evolving. If W10M is integrated into W10 proper, then W10M is still there! It's not going away! W10M is just part of W10, which is in fact no different from how things have always been since 2015, ever since W10M and W10 were released! Using WCOS (Windows Core OS), if an OEM assembles a Windows distribution without Win32, then they'll effectively have put together what we currently call W10M. It will be exactly what W10M is today (with a few improvements like CShell). We just won't call it that! At least from a technical point of view, this paints a far more accurate picture.
  • @Rubino Oh yeah, and IMHO your reporting on WCOS (Windows Core OS) is also somewhat incomplete. WCentral's entire explanation of WCOS is based on the trait modularity. The problem is that W10 has always been modular. W10M, W IoT and Holographic are all assembled from the same main source branch. It's already modular! The actual difference is the people to whom this trait of modularity, and the flexibility that comes with it, will be accessible! So far that has only been accessible to MS' OS developers. With WCOS this will also become accessible to OEMs. Where that flexibility previously existed only up until compile time, it will now be available up until deployment time. That is a more accurate way of describing WCOS. If MS were to take this even further, we'd maybe get to a point where Windows becomes very Linux like, where anybody can put together their own Windows distro. I don't know if that's where MS is going with this, but IMHO it's at least a good way of thinking about the situation.
  • More vapourware from MSFT..... ehhh... wait this is about Apple.... They will deliver their vision way before MSFT!!!!
  • I don't really see how Microsoft is way ahead in this battle.  Apple actually has a thriving app store AND Apple has a mobile OS.  Microsoft has neither.
  • Yes those points are written in the article, did you even read it?
  • Great point. Without apps to run on smaller, more mobile devices, UWP will be quickly passed by Apple's unification attempt.
  • If it already has a thriving App store mobile OS, then why do they need to combine iOS with macOS at all? Are they trying to bring mac features to iOS or iOS Apps to mac?
    iOS is already good, so it means they are planning to bring iOS Apps to mac.
    But Why? Maybe because they want to push their Laptop and Desktop sales.
    So putting a touch screen on mac and saying that you can also download iOS app on mac will help? I personally don't think so. UI of mac is not touch friendly; apps would need to consider mouse keyboard and screen sizes etc.; desktop already has a browser; and next era is of web apps.
    That was the easiest way, like that of Chromebook. Just run phone apps using an emulator. And Apple probably would do that. But what's next then? Combine watchOS and tvOS too? Point is, it has to either a short term plan, like emulators, or a long term plan, like the road MS took.
    Actually making a new OS, Core and Shell is no joke. That's what the article was about.
    And yes, Microsoft is much better in software, and way ahead in this game.
  • "More vapourware from MSFT.."
    Versus the rumored vaporware of Apple? Stay on target, man.
  • It isn't vapourware any longer. Microsoft stopped supporting UWP. Their unification idea failed and they are now just packaging desktop apps in the store.
  • It'll work...they have some early ones and wouldn't come out to say something like that to the public. As always Microsoft stupidly innovates and Apple smartly and carefully execute with perfection. I guess that'll be the time I join the iworld.
  • So, now running a phone app on a PC is OK because Apple did it? You folks are losing me here. And even though it's not really working for Google, either, this is somehow different?
  • This right here. It only works for apple now!! If the lumias were priced at a 1000$ maybe it would've attracted the isheeps. Maybe that's why the surface line up is attracting so many of them. Maybe it'll work after all, if the surface phone is over priced. They just like to show they got MOOOOOONNNEEEYYYYY. (The isheeps I mean)
  • Microsoft only sells a few million a year. They aren't converting many.
  • iPad apps are powerful, clip studio paint pro was recently released on iPad pro with the full features set as the windows version. It is a professional complex app.
  • This is a bit of a revelation for CSP users AND the iPad Pro (especially the 12.9" version). It strongly suggests a way forward for a unified Apple environment. Maybe Apple should hire these Japanese programmers! Imagine a Surface Studio-type iMac with the Apple Pencil: Wow.
  • I don't think the phone apps would be a huge success on a MBP or iMac.  However MacOS apps on iPad Pro would bring back alot of artists, software developers and some steam gamers to Apple.  Including students. I came close to switching from 30 years of MSFT faith to Apple when my 4th surface pro 2017 had to be returned for screen issues. However I staid with MSFT because windows 10 is the only platform that makes it possible to take hand written notes, code with powerful IDE, use very specialised school apps such as MATLAB and game from my huge steam library, all on one device. Also your review of the yoga 920 guided me in the right direction. Again when Apple makes it possible to use desktop apps on iPad pro, 80% of those use cases will be covered and MSFT inability to provide a polished and reliable experience will ensure people move on. When you rely on a device to take notes in class reliability and a bug less experience come first.  Having to return a unit, not being able to write notes because onenote cannot sync properly, or running out of battery during an exam because win defender decided Today's the day can give you emotions and make you switch platform without regrets. I hope MSFT improves reliability and Apple nails their universal app plateform.  More competition makes for great black Fridays!!!  
  • Yes. There was never anything wrong with it ever. Apple will not show this off until it is working in some fashion enought to know it won't be an embarassment and then make it available shortly after and look competent doing it. I've felt that MS gets shafted without any consideration for the actual work they do but more and more the contact surfaces of their products are getting rougher and less pleasing to interact with. MS needs someone with some basic design notions to clean up the os UX and general app templates. Apple invests heavily in getting the interactive components of their devices more or less right. QI charging years late = not a problem. Wireless payments being the only thing NFC can be used for on the OS = not a problem. Not implementing fast charging still = not a problem. They've set their priorities and more or less have had the right ones to grow thier market. MS is learning a lot from them... slowly. Hopefully they pull another surface device which captures peoples imaginations again. Really hoping MS does something great soon.
  • .
  • Except Android starting doing scaling apps back in 2011 with Honeycomb. Well before UWP. Now they can work on a wide variety of form factors including wearables, auto and TV. https://www.quora.com/How-can-android-apps-scale-to-any-size-screen
  • Technically yes Google did it first, that's only UI scaling though and it doesn't mean that the content makes best use of the available display space. A UWP not only scales to fit the display, it scales to fit the window size (on desktops, laptops and tablets when the devices aren't in tablet mode) and also rearranges the content to make best use of the available display space.
  • Exactly that's like a static html page that isn't responsive vs one that has been tuned to scale and rearrange the content to fit what formfactor its on. Sure the first one technically works but the second one has the better user experience.
  • Bleached clearly hasn’t used ChromeOS. It’s scaling in 4K screens is atrocious. And Android Store still isn’t available on all devices planned for 2017. Google are way behind technically (even though I really enjoy ChroneOS)
  • Never said anything about ChromeOS. It doesn't scale well though. I am well aware, it is even worse than Windows which is starting to get better.
  • An Android developer could create completely different UIs for each screen size and that was in 2011. It wasn't just scaling.
  • Yes, they could but a UWP scales the UI to fit the device's screen size anyway i.e. the news app on Windows 10 Mobile is the same one that runs on Windows 10 it's just that the UI scales to fit the phone screen, you can see this if you run the app in landscape on W10M.
  • How is that any different? Change the DPI and an Android app will scale too.
  • Microsoft's Edge browser works beautifully for mouse, touch or keyboard. Notification, Pro apps, AAA gaming and a good flexible browser is all a desktop or laptop needs.
  • You know. Honestly, I'd be happy for them.  My only pain point would be their inevitable marketing selling this development as their brainchild.  I realize Microsoft's past is funny in this respect, but talking about modern times... Microsoft just isn't given its due credit, particularly around innovation whether or not it leads to failure.  It's like the new Magic Leap AR glasses.  I don't suppose credit means much these days. But still, its the principle!  :D  /bitterrantover
  • Right ipad pro? Living images? (even though that was technically Nokia) Both examples (im sure there's more) of concepts that apple marketted as their own concept when it was a msft platform first.
  • 'Face recognition that really works'... It works well on my 950, and sometimes it works on my friends iphone... Apple still claims it as their invention...
  • The biggest problem is that people see the phone as the key component of UWP, I don't. The whole idea of a UWP is that it runs everywhere, from the phone right up to a games console so remove the phone and UWP is still relevant. Also with Windows 10 on ARM and, supposedly, a foldable Surface tablet UWP will be even more relevant. Apple, however have a long way to go as traditionally their app stores are separate across platforms so not only do they need to make sure apps scale properly across devices of all form factors they need to unify the stores as well.
  • To use UMP you need to install windows core. who will do that on mobiles???????????????????? Phones sells more than computers and they are replaced more often so this segment is very importent. Apps from Android or IOS app stores will not come to UMP. who will  and why bother rewriting the apps for UMP (yet another experement from Microsoft)?  
  • You didn't read my comment completely, did you. It's UWP not UMP and UWP based apps work across W10M, Windows 10 (32 and 64-bit), Windows 10 on ARM and the Xbox One.
  • Ok, I ment UWP and I was reflecting about you saying UWP idea to run everywhere. Excluding phones (and werables) means the apps wont be used acrross all devices like as the case for Android. If I want to develop an app to be used on all devices then Android still the choice since I will need to write two versions of the app if I want to use UMP, Android version for phones and wearables and one for UWP. I Think for Apple the case will be easier than for Microsoft, they are committed to their products and there are a wide base of app developers who are willing to follow whatever path Apple choose.  
  • You still aren't getting it, UWP isn't platform independent so a UWP will NEVER run on Android or iOS. A UWP app will ONLY run on Windows 10 Mobile while it still exists, Windows 10, Windows 10 on ARM and Xbox One.
  • It's UWP and you don't need to install Windows Core. You don't' understand what you are talking about nor the terms you are using.
  • You are not getting the point I was trying to explain.  Who will bother writing for a platform covering part of devices while there are other alternatives working on all??
  • OK, name one development platform that works on ALL devices regardless of the OS?
  • I didn't say regardless of the OS, I said a platform for all devices. in Windows case no phones and no wearables.
    if I am to develop UWP app which is supposed to share info between different type of devices then I will also need to write android app for phones and wearables while if I develop Andriod app then I don't need to bother learning other platform since Android covers all types of devices.
    Apple cover case there are wide range of Apple devices so you don't need to learn another platform either and that's why developers will help to unify the Apple platform faster than Microsoft.  
  • We've had the Win10 core available on our phones for several years now, at least for the 30 million or so forward thinking Windows phone users.
  • You have OneCore on your phone, not Windows Core. You're not using or understanding these terms correctly.
  • Your first sentence pretty much sums it up. The majority of people do see their phone as their primary device. Without a phone and a healthy app store, things will not change.
  • You are correct brother
  • Does not matter where UWP runs. There isn't enough Developers that want to use it for their apps. Unfortunately, Dan's write up here is sounding a little like Jason Ward. And, we all know what happened to the relevance of Jason's Windows phone articles and the hopes of Windows Mobile succeeding.
  • Well, I have a desktop with a keyboard and mouse and two 1920x1200 monitors. UWP means nothing to me on the Desktop.. I do everything through WIn32 apps and the Edge Browser. However, when I need to get directions to a place, check my account balances, send a message, check emai, send email, when I'm looking for a word/phrase translation, making a call, taking a photo, sharing a photo, streaming a video, listening to music, generating VPN encryption codes, checking my schedule, using a calculator, making a conversion, checking a shopping lists or a todo lists..... well I use my phone... and Microsoft has decided that it doesn't want to help me with any of those activities, becuase it's dropped UWP for phone devices and is dropping mobil. So all this UWP on other platforms/formats is completely irrelevant to me... and I suspect the large number of Android/Apple users agree. Surface Hub, Surface Tablet, XBox, mixed reality... that stuff doesn't mean anything to me... I'm too busy using technology to be really productive... and I do it on the go on a device that fits in my pocket... You MIcrosoft apologist can spew all day..... Microsoft's dropped me in the grease by dropping development on Mobil. Once I embrace someone else's Mobil platform, I don't really care what Microsoft is doing with UWP on their own platforms. Remember Mobil First.. Cloud First.... they should have stayed the course.. 
  • However, when I need to get directions to a place, check my account balances, send a message, check emai, send email, when I'm looking for a word/phrase translation, making a call, taking a photo, sharing a photo, streaming a video, listening to music, generating VPN encryption codes, checking my schedule, using a calculator, making a conversion, checking a shopping lists or a todo lists..... well I use my phone...
    I can do all this from my desktop, from the comfort of the big display and full keyboard.  Unlike you, I didn't pigeonhole my devices into specific roles.  My phone does some torrent downloading, some office editing, IRC chat etc.  My desktop also does mail, Instant messaging, maps and directions, I've even used it to upload pictures to instagram which I've edited using desktop photo editing tools (that was when InstaPic was still around).  I look forward to the day when I can do as much phone tasks on my PC and PC tasks on my phone because that will be the day I will no longer be tied to a desk or forced to use a small fiddly touchscreen.  Both form factors have ergonomic compromises but as much as possible, I do not wish to be stuck on one form factor for a particular task.
  • We didn't need a Crystal ball to know that. If Ms and qualcomm keep working together Ms will dominate again.
  • Here are the two things Apple has going for it: loyal developer support & steadfast commitment. The developers will jump through hoops to make this work for Apple. Also, Apple doesn't abandon many products. For these reasons, I think this would be successful even it would take some time to get it right.
  • Exactly, Microsoft didn't get there overnight either, UWP took time to get right and the same will happen with Apple and unifying their apps as well.
  • When did Microsoft get UWP right? It is still a mess and unable to replace Win32.
  • No one said it would replace Win32 therefore Microsoft did get UWP right!!!
  • Nope. It is supposed to replace Win32 for sure. Surface phone is even rumored to not have Win32 or legacy code. App store only.
  • They basically abandoned macOS and their laptops. No real innovation or care for years now. Sure you can get one. But its severely neglected. 
  • "UWP is about building a next-generation app platform that can quickly adapt to new hardware paradigms, whether it is Windows Mixed Reality, traditional PCs, tablets, mobile devices, or your living room. " This sentence is why I am constantly harping on why Microsoft must focus on UWP and which is what annoys the heck out of me because they aren't visibly focusing on UWP. ."All three companies are embarking down the same path", (Many of us saw this coming years ago) "but Microsoft is many steps ahead there, even though it's lagging in the fastest growth area for computing: smartphones." The irony here is that Ballmer was right to push for the Nokia Devices and Services acquisition and should not have been pushed out. He was the perfect CEO to lead the transitional phase as he has personally experienced the failures in the smartphone space with the WM6.5 to WP 7.x transition. Whereas Satya has not therefore in his short sightedness the entire mobile divison got axed, people used to laugh at me when I said smartphones will be the computers in the future when we were using Nokia 3210s. But then again that was almost 18 years ago lol. Now 9 billion smartphones are forecasted to be shipped between now and 2020. That is a ridiculous number of smartphones and as long smartphones remain the defacto gateway for services, the number of devices shipped will continue to grow.    
  • TBH, I don't see Apple putting any effort into this unification idea because they doesn't seem to care about their PC market anymore, at least the home users. macOS home users barely use anything other than Safari or Chrome, It's too much trouble and wasted efforts to please what? About 8% of a shrinking market?   
  • @diego3336. You may not see the point of it but it's the most logical growth point, how do you reduce your coding hours along with your wage bill? You simplify and unify the code.
  • @TechFreak1 Exactly! UWP is an API. APIs are of interest to  developers and indirectly to the corporations who pay developer's wages! Ultimately, the universal part of the UWP is about reducing the cost of software development for apps that shoud ideally run on multiple form factos. None of this matters to consumers. WCentral just leaves many people with the impression that it should. Assuming Apple would also like to court large corporations who develop their own software, then they must provide the same capabilities and potential for synergies that the UWP does. If Apple is smart they will provide a better migration path than MS did, where Win32 and UWP are entirely distinct and incompatible systems.
  • @a5cent I imagine Apple will use Microsoft as case study in what not to do and find a better migration path. Case in point ARkit compared to HoloLens, the latter is dependent on UWP and whereas Apple's migration path is to use ios as a stop gap. Although Apple's initial solution maybe more code heavy initially as they will have to unify the core and build up. They will most likely adopt the dual approach, unify the core alongside offering a transitional pathway of smartphones to osx. Then use that same code to go from osx to smartphones in the form of unified code for instance. Either way, they will have strong developer support as I don't see Apple foregoing the smartphone space as they the most of their money from phones.
  • In addition to Win32 (strictly speaking the C native API) we have .Net as the 3rd option in addition to UWP. And while there are similarities between .Net and UWP i never understood why MS did not just took .Net as "UWP".
  • My only disagreement is the role of the smartphone.  MSFT makes money in the future via the cloud.  By tying its services into iOS and Android, they can extend their cloud services into these ecosystems.  Not ideal.  But the revenue picture for MSFT is driven by cloud, not windows powered smartphone. Apple has the opposite problem.  They make money through hardware sales (iPhone primarily) and then services/app sales.  Apple has to grow service/subscription services, which I don't see overcoming a possible drop in or stagnation in iPhone sales.  How do they extend their revenue profile by unifying iOS with MacOS? MSFT has a far clearer picture to higher revenues than Apple.
  • @ddn123. Microsoft has the ability and potential to obtain higher revenues, that is the difference and the crux of the matter is will they exercise that ability and potential? Current trend indicates that as a firm no, as they have offloaded the mapping division to uber and now we have a subpar mapping experience. No transitional focus instead they are chasing the next shiny object like magpies, over fired engineers and testers at a critical junction, constant visible focus on competitor ecosystems over their own ecosystem, their marquee acquisitions do not have any UWP apps on the roadmap, loss of high profile banking apps as this impacts enterprise and consumers as you'd expect these entities to embrace the security of UWP. You get the picture, I can honestly write a novel as the list is frustratingly endless.
  • You are looking at this from a consumer standpoint.  I own an apartment complex at the end of a 1/2 mile dead-end street.  Do you know how many times an 18 wheeler drives down my street and is faced with an impossible situation?  Too many to count.  What happens when one gets stuck and I have an emergency at my complex?  A fire engulfing a building?  A person suffering a heart attack?  Death.  Why do they turn down my road?  Because the sign says Franklin.  Franklin drive and not Franklin Gateway.  Sure the onboard app says Franklin Gateway.  But the driver sees Franklin.  Microsoft understands the difference between a trucking company and a bozo driving to a friend's house to drink beer.  Let's just say I expect a call from an insurance company to write me a check for $1000 to repair the damage the driver did to my property trying to turn his rig around.  Multiply that on a global scale.  Who has a greater incentive to get the mapping directions better?  Someone running a cloud-based system tuned to the needs of the enterprise versus a dumbass consumer headed to a party?  This is why Microsoft still works with HERE to provide better logistic services to the enterprise on a global scale.
  • @ddm123. From a consumer stand point? Haha hardly, you just took one example out of a list I gave to fit your narrative. But that doesn't change the fact the mapping division moved over to Uber in a "partnership". It's all good and well working with Here in logistical sector, that's not the point. They could have better direct integration but that was disregarded for short term profits. To be honest, you are looking at things from one perspective and that is cloud infrastructure. Since you are looking at cloud infrastructure in the enterprise space, with Microsoft forgoing the WM10 they also burned several enterprise bridges - how so you may ask. Corporations adopted WM10 and Wp8.x devices to give to their employees because it integrated with on premise solutions such as active directory, exchange etc. So they could leverage solutions such as having a dedicated section of the store for their company, dynamically lock aspects such as email (company) and documents stored through IT policy. However by Microsoft foregoing the consumer space they obliterated any incentives developers had for developing UWP apps. "Enterprise users" are also consumers they don't want to carry around two phones, it's a hassle and also a security risk. A person is more likely to safe guard their personal phone over their work phone, as their personal phone will have priceless videos and photos of special occasions such as birthdays. Not to mention social media access. Through which a person's entire identity can be stolen. However the enterprise sector is not a app heavy sector. Since it is not a app heavy sector, developers will just disregard UWP. That is what has happened. Plus you have banks also leaving the store because the user base for UWP is so low to merit any further expenses for the windows ecosystem. Hence why the store is still barren to this day and why Windows install has stalled at 600 million. Plus many of these users don't use store apps. I personally do and I have covered the flawed approach(es) in depth in the forums. So now you have a situation where the employees have to use two phones and their work phone has hardly any apps they can use to pass the time on commutes. One reason why BYOD is an ongoing trend. So staff moral decreases and security risks to company infrastructure increases. So the simplest way to mitigate that is to offer android and ios devices. As they still retain some level of control and staff are happy. I can go on forever and type a million page novel. My point is every single thing is inter-connected. So before you jump to conclusions and try to twist a persons words to fit your narrative. Think thrice before doing so 😉.
  • Decades in and Mac (OSX) is still a tiny fraction of the market. In many ways Apple is the inverse MS, mobile dominant but niche PC. They haven't given up on PC, or retrenched (as MS has), but they certainly haven't put the resources into it. Can they merge the platforms, sure, but I think more likely is that iOS with subsume OSX. Google is a different beast, they are the MS of mobile, creating the tools and letting the OEM bear the burden of making it work in the market. I see a lot of blowback in education with the Chromebooks because the system launched underpowered and OEM went for the cheapest specs possible (making poor UX). Meeting ChromeOS and Android will probably go through the typical generations of Google frankensteining them together, but eventually they will come up with something. MS definitely has the unified lead, now they just need to give us products that showcase it better, and more importantly convince the OEM.
  • SO MSFT spent a decade moving from smartphone 6.5 to Windows 10 mobile.  This was about 5 house fires followed by a new rebuild.  I don't know if they could have avoided the house fires.  But maybe if they just kept Windows 8.1 for phones and delayed Windows 10 mobile until Windows 10 one core, cshell and the like had been completed.   MSFT could have possibly kept a decent market share in smartphones.  Windows Phone 8.1 to me was the best of the bunch.  I used all of them and still use my 950.  What would the world look like if today MSFT with 10% windows smartphone share using 8.1 was announcing bridges to move 8.1 apps to UWP.
  • Windows Phone never broke 4% and was dropping after Android caught up on the low end. The slight upturn with the L520 didn't last long.
  • Dead right Bleached but your 4% figure holds only for the USA. Other markets had it higher (some lower) and MS' real problem was the telcos that wanted to sell Android and iPhones. Nadella has started MS' slow decline to irrelevance.
  • Microsoft threw away the market share with the transition to WP 7.  Game over then.  
  • It will and look good. Currently UWP looks like trash.
  • Must be nice to just easily gloss over the UI/UX challenges that Google and Microsoft have already faced in doing this. I do envy non-devs who just think this stuff happens magically, it's super convenient!
  • Amen. Also the ones who think that "UWP is a mess". I started out with WPF and have since moved to UWP (though I still work with WPF some). UWP just feels soooooooo much better to work with, and just because some devs have made junk apps with it doesn't make the framework itself bad.
  • Nope. Apple knows got to develop consistent, stable APIs that don't change drastically every 9 months. Their developers will jump on this. t The constant reworking from Microsoft disincentivized developers and completely killed their grass roots efforts. Apple will never make those - fairly basic - mistakes.
  • Which is why all those developers jumped on to Swift... Oh wait. Yes even the high and mighty Apple jacks up development at times.
  • Nothing even remotely close to the utter chaos (and lack of backward compatibility) of Microsoft phone operating systems and APIs in the ten years since 6.5
  • Except those developers did, and Swift is a development language, not an entire platform and paradigm like WPF, WinForms, Silverlight, Metro, and UWP. ALso, the transition to Said this being handled much better than Microsoft's transition to .NET languages - and now apparent backpedaling to C++. Many developers of very popular apps are using Swift and many have redone their apps in Swift. Objective-C is widely regarded as vestigial, with most developers pretty straightforward saying that Swift is the future on that platform. They aren't wondering what the future is like... Like Visual Basic, F#, IronPython, JScript, J#, etc. developers are or were on Microsoft's platform. Nice attempt to troll, but you're actually [unintentionally] accurate.
  • Where is Apple in generating Cloud-based revenue?  Subscription streams of revenue?  The App store?  Compare the Apple's app store revenue base and growth prospects versus MSFT's cloud revenue base and growth prospects?  I don't think they compare, which is why MSFT has a PE roughly double to Apple's.  2016 was a year of roughly flat to down iPhone sales.  Will people replace their iPhones?  sure but that is not growth.  That is replacement.  Can Apple grow market share in a world where most people own smartphones?  Sure many in India and China and other under-developed countries will get smartphones.  But what if they are doing so by access cloud-based services, run on Azure?
  • yes thay do see a ovantage in it capability of unifing but there system of macintosh core was built on microw control file,ing and there securety there is that isheu of where there fault in the past thay absolutly could not tranfur a simple file from phone to laptop thay just have to realy realize there securety attempt of microwmanament has become there wall that prevents them rigorisly  kind of like shooting yourself in the foot just to take one step forward 
  • they need to make touch screen mac
  • ...and redo all of macOS. You can just "add touch" that's not how any of this works.
  • do you think a case could be made for enabling some sort of pseudo touch support via the excellent macbook trackpad? guess that counts out mouse users but could be a start... picture something like chrome dev tools in device mode with touch support via trackpad. lots of things to consider, i know. more pointing out the similarity between a touch screen and the macbook trackpad.
  • @Kojackju, how would they change the UX to fit a touch centric paradigm? Are they going to go all gesture based like they did with the iphone X? Hah, nope not anytime soon. This is where live tiles simply eradicates any possible growth point for Apple and Google in terms of UX progression. So the only method to leap frog live tiles is for holographic and AR computing which is primarily gesture based. Or they go through the widget methodology... which on a laptop or desktop... really doesn't work as primary interaction method. Live Tiles has the balance between icons and glanceable information as well as enabling you to navigate through touch. However the current implementation in Windows 10 is heavily flawed.
  • Wow.  I agree.  I do not know much about touch support...but an OS (MacOS whatever till now) that has never once used Touch UI integrated UX would face hurdles for sure.  It could be simple enough for them with iOS and taking components from that and meshing with those of MacOS...I wonder if Apple has been testing anything under the hood in either maybe gathering stats or r&d mining... something.  I sure hope so for their sake especially if they want to execute this the way they are known for.  Guess we like all consumers do will sit back watch wait and see :) Microsoft knew what they were doing when they brought Windows 10 in and it has been great to see its WIP get this far....they just need to keep the momentum.
  • Apple's efforts aren't about sharing UI and scaling it on different displays. It's about bundling shares code and enabling the platforms to use it transparently even with different UX on each sister platform. This is why Apple will succeed where Microsoft has failed. They aren't turning macOS into a mobile OS running mobile apps, like Metro and UWP did on Windows , they are simply strengthening the integration and interoperability across their platforms. This will allow iOS and macOS apps to share a lot of code, even if the actual UI and UX are completely different on the two platforms. Think of Affinity Photo on iPad vs macOS. Almost complete feature parity, but completely different UXes, designed specifically for the platform and form factor the apps run on. Microsoft needed to leverage .NET (WPF, etc.) for this on Windows, but went with Metro and UWP, which wasted a ton of time and resources for no gains. YEP also defaults to a mobile IS on desktop machines, which makes very little sense. Their phone efforts got completely demolished, and they bastardized their desktop OS in the process. Apple will never deliver a Windows 8... Or even a Windows 10, for that matter. They will deliver a way for developers to deliver more integrated experiences across device types, with much better feature equality across them, while respecting those platforms - not trying to fundamentally redefine them from a usability perspective. That is what Microsoft should have focused on. Integration and interoperability. Not reinventing the wheel and insulting people with "mobile on desktop" user experiences. The same way Apple introduces Kits and says "have fun with this," Microsoft could have just released more APIs with .Net Libraries and allowed developers to integrate on multiple platforms without turning Desktop Windows into a quasi-mobile platform.  Windows Phone should have stayed Metro with a .Net SDK. Desktop developers could have used interoperability to integrate the good stuff into their native apps. Microsoft also needs a better way to distribute apps outside of the store and install/manage them (similar to the packages on MacOS). This is very messy on Windows.
  • "Apple's efforts aren't about sharing UI and scaling it on different displays. It's about bundling shares code and enabling the platform s to use it transparently even with different UX on each sister platform. This is why Apple will succeed where Microsoft has failed."
    So, let me get this straight. Microsoft's problem was not letting phone apps run on PC, but that the phone apps didn't look phone app enough? Like, instead of scaling they should have let UWP apps just run as phone-windows on the PC? And how does that work for WMR? or Xbox?
    "It's about bundling shares code and enabling the platform s to use it transparently"
    How is that different from UWP, which is all about shared code, resources, and compiling?
  • That has to be one of the most bastardized misinterpretations of anything that I've written on the internet... Regarding the first paragraph... The difference is that Microsoft tried to create one user experience that was suitable for all device types, but they were bitten in teh ass when people on Desktops decided they didn't want a Desktop Operating system that operated like it had multiple personality disorder... Applications without menu bars or obvious UI/UX clues like Accelerator Hints. Apps that were clearly not designed for Keyboard/Mouse usage. UI Widget sets designed for touchscreen devices, etc. Microsoft's problem was trying to make Desktop PCs run mobile apps, and then trying to pass off those Mobile apps as the future of the desktop - to people who have decades of experience using desktops and know the difference. UWP Apps on Windows 10 are not much different than Android apps running on ChromeOS. What they needed to do was take better advantage of their experience developing platform son different form factors and tie them together in ways that leave the base user experience on those platforms accommodate the specific users and use cases that dominate them, while allowing people to better use these different devices and platforms in tandem. A good example of this is HandOff, Continuity, and SMS/MMS Relay, iCloud Keychain, Synced Reading List, etc. on Apple Platforms. You have access to much of the same functionality, but the actual user experiences on the different devices are completely designed from the ground up for those platforms. What Microsoft did, was simply "blow up" the mobile apps and throw them on the desktop. This was plainly obvious in Metro. The fact that they run in Windows is merely placebo on Windows 10. Additionally, the UX suffers in a multitude of ways when you do this... Compare the way Finder on macOS allows you to navigate your Photo Library, compared to the way Windows 10 achieves the exact same functionality. To the second quote in your reply... No, you're wrong because you're ignoring the fact that the point of UWP is to have a single user experience that runs across different form factors. It's the same UX, the UI is simply rearranged to accommodate different screen sizes and orientations. This is why a Twitter app will resemble a smartphone app when you dock it to a side of the Windows and reduce the column width. This is good, in theory, when it does not clash completely with almost everything else on the platform. In that case, it just looks messy. It doesn't help that Microsoft went out of their way to make it feel like a platform on top of a platform (like running Windows on top of macOS in seamless virtualization mode), which made it hard to build a cohesive UX because different types of apps (Native or UWP) handled different things in fundamentally different ways (i.e. putting Notifications in Action Center vs. popping up System Tray icons, etc.). I am not sure how you could even come to the conclusions you've made about what I've written, unless you literally just had your attention caught by those two statements and viewed them in isolation... In any case, your reaction to the first statement you quoted is 100% wrong and has very little to do with anything I stated. UWP Apps are mobile apps. They are basically like Android Apps running on ChromeOS, and they were put there to serve as a motivating factor to mobile developers who wanted access to a larger user base. This, by extensions, was supposed to benefit Microsoft's mobile efforts by using Desktop Windows as a vector through which they would close (or lessen) the app gap on Windows Mobile. This, clearly, didn't work so well.
  • It's way easier for Apple because they'll probably do the macOS run iOS apps, MS didn't had this option as WP7 had few and quite feature-limited apps to be ported to Windows 8. Another option other than the creation of a new unified language was to make a way to run Win32 software on WP8, not feasible at that time. 
    "Apple will never deliver a Windows 8... Or even a Windows 10, for that matter. They will deliver a way for developers to deliver more integrated experiences across device types, with much better feature equality across them, while respecting those platforms - not trying to fundamentally redefine them from a usability perspective."
    Jeez, do you realize it's a completely different scenario, do you? Make a hipster-PC OS with a market share of 8% and a very restricted 'set of users' run apps from a mature 10yo mobile OS is way easier, and there's the fact that the then 'iPhoneOS' started as a fork of the MacOS X...
  • And Microsoft's phone efforts initially had a subset of .NET running on a version of Windows.  Then, Ballmer and company decided to throw it all away and produce a Silverlight(!) based phone with a fraction of the features and applications that Apple had.  
  • The failure that is WP 100% started with Ballmer. That set the ball in motion. I'm always amazed at how people here forget that every day and blame it on Nadella, who only inherited a decade of mismanagement.
  • Windows Phone should have stayed Metro with a .Net SDK. Desktop developers could have used interoperability to integrate the good stuff into their native apps. 
    Or layered a Metro sort of shell on top of 6.5, which had .NET and pretty solid developer support.     
  • They could have easily extended WPF with more mobile oriented widgets. With .Net/WPF Microsoft could have had an universal API years before UWP. But instead they first went with Silverlight/Metro and then with UWP - both of which incompatble with .Net but also heavily stripped down - they took the most stupid approach.  
  • I'm not sure you understand what .NET even is...
  • I don't.know and I don't really care, I have nearly all the apps I already have on my Surface Book and Lumia 950XL, and will have these on the upcoming Surface Folder.  I anticipate doing almost everything on the nee device eventually. .
  • I sense so much fear in Daniel through this article and also if MSFT don't deliver UWP File Explorer in 2018, they will fail and be beaten once again by Apple. These s*ckers still cannot understand that the one and only single feature that holds Windows 10 back is the File Explorer. If I was Satya I would put the entire 130000+ of employees company to create this stupid UWP File Explorer with the speed of light. This is just ridiculous. This should have been the first thing ever presented with the launch of Windows 10 3 years ago. This is the BIIGEST TECH CORPORATION ON THE PLANET EARTH and I still hear arguments like "but this is 30 year old software, it can't be just revamped over a night". There is no excuse! There is no excuse!
  • Fear? No, it's concern and anyone that can see in the long view will rightly be concerned with the current pathway Microsoft has taken. Unlike the awesome editors and writers here, some of us can use blunt and expressive language (within boundaries of reason and decorum) to relay that concern.
  • I believe the UWP (Touch Friendly) file explorer was available from version 1703. Actually it may have been there long before.  Obvious it is not ready... It is just not baked in by default. Too it is not available in the store as a UWP yet. Not sure if it can still be made available now in the latest Insider releases or not or how Microsoft is actively developing it. What reasons do you have on why this feature is holding them back?
  • So, reomw gets the award for "weirdest post/projection I have ever read". No, not fear. I am for competition though. It makes the market better, so if Apple does do it better, then kudos to them. My point is Microsoft started this process years ago, has much larger PC market share, and is building for tomorrow. Apple is just waking up to that. Apple is a phone company. Make no mistake. They occasionally sell laptops and ear buds. That's a problem when planning the next decade (obviously, Apple makes money now, so that's fine).
  • "Apple is just waking up to that." Sure, because we all know what Apple's been testing in their labs secretly for god knows how much time already. The fact that the news for this emerge now in the public means absolutely nothing.
  • Microsoft's Consumer OS and to a smaller degree their business OS model has now officially been challenged to a death match!
  • “All three companies are struggling with a shifting computing world where device usage and experiences are changing.” Apple and Google are doing just fine.   The only company struggling with a shifting computing world is Microsoft.   If anyone can pull this off, it’s Apple.  They have the focus, the resources AND the developers.  
  • A big advantage Apple has over MS - if they have to create a number of dead-end transitional Mac OS devices during the merge, none of their fans will be upset because they have already proved that they love throwing money away by buying Apple in the first place.
  • As opposed to the Microsoft True Believers, who have no problem throwing money away on dead end, transitional Windows Phones.    
  • Not sure what point you're making, even most MS fans hate MS because of dead ended OSes and devices, and most would have switched much earlier if they had known in advance the fate of their devices. Apple fans on the other hand upgrade even when they don't need to...because wireless charging is apparently so 2017
  • And exactly what point are you making?   That Apple customers are generally happy?  Wireless charging is just a small, added bonus to all other great things that come from buying Apple.   Chief among them is not being abandoned.  Perhaps Microsoft customers would not be so bitter if only MS had not destroyed their phone business 4 times in 10 years.  Not to mention all the other products and services they have killed.   Apple customers are certainly not bitter.  I wonder why?
  • Tell that those who have their phones throttled slower when the battery life goes down.
  • A vanishingly small percentage.  Compared to pretty much every Windows phone customer. Besides, the battery can be replaced.   Much more cheaply than replacing dead end Windows Phones.
  • @naddy6969 My point is pretty clear - if Apple did what MS did and sold users a bunch of devices with no long term future while merging their OSes, Apple users would be much happier about opening their wallets. It's just part of the Apple tithing process after all
  • Windows phone users seem pretty happy about opening THEIR wallets too.   Everyone here had at least 5 Windows Phones.  It’s all part of the Microsoft tithing process.    Even now, people are drooling over mock ups of the mythical “folding device running Windows 10”.    All ready to buy Microsoft again, after being burned SO many times. How is that any different?
  • Yes, all that money on Lumia 520s aka "they heyday" of Windows phone sales. /s
  • Many people didn't mind buying Windows phones because because they were actually quite pleasant to use and overall, most of them are in the low to mid range anyway, so overall, as a value proposition, they made more sense than an iPhone.
  • Good points througout, and especially the takeaway.  Apple has two major advantages.  1). Apple fully controls the hardware.  This cuts down on the variables.  Rather than merge the two operating systems, it is likely they will push more on their "start here, finish there" concept which, in conjunction with iCloud, seems to alread be doing fairly well. 2). A transition will take support, and quality control testing, to be successful.  As one who now works in both environments, Apple has a very distinct advantage here, especially among consumers ( including small businesses ).   Apple sees them both as essentials while Microsoft views them as a nuisance. The future will be interesting, but it is also likely to reveal that the "buying public" will just disengage from the whole process.
  • No matter how poorly Apple actually executes on the idea, the press and Apple fans will generally declare it the "right" solution by fiat. Then in 3 years when Apple starts to catch up to where Microsoft is now, they will declare that Microsoft is copying Apple.
  • Of course we can say that MS is ahead of Apple in this context because Nadella has dumped phones while Apple stills has that avenue to computing. Let's be realistic here, smartphones have faster and larger turnovers, someone has suggested 9 billion new smartphones and Nadella has said "so what"? It appears that Apple sees a future entry path with smartphones that myopic Nadella cannot so at least Apple is in the game that Nadella has run up the white flag on, rolled over, and like a dog has said tickle my tummy. At least Apple is trying, MS adn Nadella are not and they are on the road to diminution and irrelevancy. AND this comes from someone who has supported MS for the last 30 years!
  • Basing your entire company on phone sales alone where your laptops still struggle is not a long term idealized solution. If you think "phones" will be around in 10 or 20 years, you just do not understand technology. Go back to 2016 where Apple phone sales stagnated and watch how the markets freaked out. Why? Apple's entire business is dependent on continued iPhone sales. It's a gamble that has worked for them so far, but it is a gamble. The Apple Watch is not - so far - the next iPod. None of this makes up for the poor reviews of the recent MBP, it's keyboard, and the failed "touchbar".
  • So its OK when Apple does it...SMH
  • The story will be Apple lead the industry to a unified OS/application platform paradigm.
  • Only if they manage to do it first.  
  • The difference is that Apple will market this.... MS just hopes things will stick.
  • The difference is that Apple will market this.... MS just hopes things will stick.
  • Rodneyej: Apple "markets" the MBP. How is Apple marketshare for PCs in 2017 compared to a decade ago? How well are the latest MBP hardware revisions being receive even by die-hard and pro fans?
  • True, touché....
  • Its amazing. Just the hint that Apple is doing this means they are light years ahead of Microsoft which has been working on UWP for years, has all these tools for developers and still no one is interested. I dont think Apple needs to do this, I have a mac book pro, ipad pro and iphone x and havent onced thought I needed some sort of unified platform. but in the mean time everyone here can cry that MS did this first. 
  • Got a free iPhone and iPad to use for apps. Can't load several apps on both of them. iCrap.
  • Ah, Stevie Adams, I'd forgotten what account you were using last year when you ran off with your tail between your legs. Maybe if you don't want downvotes you should stop acting like a dick and making up BS about an imaginary family and the tech you own. Crawl back under your bridge there's a good little chap...
  • Yeah, yeah, of course you don't care about downvotes ;-) So you got banned for being an arse and have swapped over to one of your other trolling accounts? Oh, that's OK then.....
  • What an idiot... We've all had our same users names for years, and proudly stood by our oppions... All the time while stupid trolls have to bounce back and forth just to taint whatever name they use... Pathetic no life having trolls.. SMDH
  • Can see why WM10 had to go for this vision to complete. Too bad they couldn't keep the Nokia era hardware as a bridge for a few more yrs until Andromeda is ready. They obviously loss too much money to justify keeping it. Surface RT loss tons of money too, but they kept at it because they knew they can succeed. No one else was doing it. In contrast, phone market was already saturated, and they can't compete at all.
  • Well at least the have aphone to do it with, hey?
  • True! Now, let's talk about that PC market where they have 10% and - by even Apple fan standards - are lagging with the latest MBP release and how this actually helps that and the continued relevance of the iPad. Go.
  • Apple might actually get it done though
  • I'm waiting for the follow through on this argument. How does running phone apps for 10% of the PC market getting it "done"?
  • it's less then 10% for the last 30 years.
  • I believe Apple will do the development internally, exclusively & rigorously even though it will take some time. The first Apple Pencil is damn far superior for art then MS Surface Pen gen 1. You don't know how long the art community has longed for one. Pressure sensitive screen is well executed in iOS x iPad Pro even on the first release. Compared to Surface Pro gen 1. Apple doesn't let subpar products to be released to the market while MS loves public beta so much.
  • "Apple doesn't let subpar products to be released to the market while MS loves public beta so much."
    Reeealy? You think the Apple Watch Gen 1 was that good? Sold that well? Related: how many products has Apple actually brought to market? I count: Phone, Laptop (3 models), AIO, PC, a watch that sells OK, and maybe, someday, a smart home speaker (remember that?). Outside of the phone, nothing has conquered any market at all, or come close to 50%. In fact, the iPhone is literally what Apple is for 2017. They make a phone. And some accessories for it (ear pods, a watch). While Apple makes money (important!) to say everything they do is great is an over reach. They don't actually do much. They just do very little, very well. Microsoft, to put it bluntly, is much more diversified - for better or worse.
  • Seems you replied just for the sake of it.  His point  was that apple's releases are much better tested and doesn't release half baked products. Look at band1, nokia 950, w10m. We all know ms gen¹ devices suck. And it has nothing to do with diversification of MS. 
  • I welcome Apple's "unification" attempt. Only Apple can knock some sense to these stubborn devs and users that having a unified app platform and experience actually makes sense. As more and more developers begin to "see the light" more and more "unified apps" will be made.
  • Unfortunately for Microsoft, Windows developers are a bunch of old dinosaurs writing line of business apps and utilities. All the up and coming developers who will appreciate the unified vision will be writing apps for Android and iOS.
  • Please, exhibit your proof. Oh, you have none, you say? Then why on earth would you make such a baseless comment...?
  • Quoting: "Jeez, do you realize it's a completely different scenario, do you? Make a hipster-PC OS with a market share of 8% and a very restricted 'set of users' run apps from a mature 10yo mobile OS is way easier, and there's the fact that the then 'iPhoneOS' started as a fork of the MacOS X..." Makes little sense... Windows Mobile started as Windows CE - a fork of Windows. Windows Mobile existed years before the iPhone was even a plan at Apple. macOS is not a hipster-PC OS. It was released in 2001 or so, and Apple had a GUI Multi-Tasking OS before Microsoft. What exactly is the point of clueless, ignorant replies like this... The reason why Apple was successful is because they know how to formulate a plan and stick to it. Microsoft balks at the first sign of failure. They don't know how to follow anything through - particularly when it comes to the consumer market. WPF was supposed to redefine how apps on Windows are developed... Microsoft balked. .NET was supposed to be the future of Windows... Now they're selling C++ harder than they have in DECADES. Microsoft is so afraid of failure, that they basically sabotage their own efforts by running away from them so they don't have to deal with any fall out. This results in developers and users completely losing faith in them, because they are not seen as reliable. People are willing to deal with Google's Betas and Apple's feature-deficient products because they have faith that those companies will stick by those products and make good out of them. With Microsoft, all they've gotten were 5 different UI Frameworks/Paradigms in the past decade or so. Completely redesigned (at fundamental levels) platforms. Desktop OSes with multiple personality disorder. Good apps that have been abandoned by the developers after users like me paid money for them, only to have them become completely out of step with the platform itself (in a fairly short timespan). Companies who have actually developed Metro apps now backtracking by pulling them and going back to Native Desktop apps. Another thing... Windows 10 has been out for a while now. Everyone is looking at it now, almost as if it was in its current state on release day. It's been like 2 years, and they've only just gotten this far... And many of the changes they've made, trying to bring things to UWP, have been usability disasters in practice (like the dialog to change file associations, which I have "met" recently, the way "Photos" Library is integrated into Explorer (compare to Apple Photos in the Finder File Picker, the fact that they have done absolutely nothing to give Developers any guidance on where to place application files - which are now being dumped into user Documents folders, etc.). We couldn't even "Repeat Current Track" for well over a year in Groove Music Player after Windows 10's release. There are tons of issues that took forever to resolve, and tons of issues that still go unresolved. And you people act surprised that many people have negative things to say about the platform/operating system... I'm a Windows 10 user. I don't have to bash Apple just to have a point. I don't owe Microsoft anything, and I don't feel guilty or dirty simply because I use a competitor's products and prefer main facets of it to what Microsoft is/has put[ing] out.
  • You have no idea what you're even talking about. Old Win32 apps were what "dumped their files all over the place". UWP apps literally CAN'T, and Microsoft has, in fact, given very clear direction on where application files are to be stored.
  • I feel that Apple's approach is much less riskier than Microsoft's was.  Microsoft tried to go from desktop to mobile and it failed. The biggest thing is Apple can leverage their more popular OS to support their less popular one.  Microsoft was not able to leverage Windows to support Windows Phone and that failure and the eventualy failure of Windows phone ended up hurting UWP. If all Apple does is make iOS apps run on MacOS in some kind of phone or tablet sized window then I think they will have something that's already more useful than UWP.  It might not be as grand or far reaching as what Microsoft planned, but it would probably be a lot more immediately useful to consumers. I love Windows and UWP, but without developers' (including Microsoft's) full support it's never going to see full potential.  Apple on the other hand has very strong developer support.  I'd bet that most iOS developers would love it if their iOS apps ran on MacOS.  Apple need only open that gate and developers will rush in.
  • The original Mac was released in January 1984.   When was Windows 1 released?   That’s right, at the end of 1985.    Windows didn’t really take off until version 3, in 1990.   You were saying?
  • @kojackjku Such a shame you're being rude. Lay off the hostility. As for @na8ter, he's correct. Apple did release Mac OS X before Microsoft came out with XP by a few months. It did have a modern multitasking OS in consumer hands before Microsoft did. It also was a more stable and much more secure OS than XP (but that's not the point). Apple had a multitasking OS comparable to Windows 3.1 in 1986 already, a good half decade before Microsoft did. The first time Microsoft managed to get a decent multi-tasking system was with Windows 95 and it was quite unstable compared to the contemporary Mac OS. It's shame that otherwise intelligent comments are interspersed by gratuitious, offensive Apple-hate for no purpose. The adults I know who use Apple are not using Apple because it's fashionable. They were using Apple products long before the Apple-haters decided to spew their vitriole on the web. For the record, I personally have only one Apple device (an iPhone 4S) and it was a gift. It's likely the last Apple device that I will use unless I'm gifted another iPhone... unfortunately my brother is now on a different cell phone plan so he no longer gets to keep his old devices ;). I don't not use Apple products because I dislike them or see them as over-priced but I use Windows because it's now good enough and I like to "roll my own" and play with my hardware. That's not a knock on Apple.
  • Apple Lisa was one of the first machines for consumers to have a WIMP system, I know someone who still have one, but then have a load of old machiens as he collects them. I think there was an Apple machine before that, that had WImp, but I do not think it was launched.  Xerox invented the WImp I think.
  • No.  He said OS X was released  in 2001.   Apple did have a GUI OS before Microsoft.  Both are true, but unrelated. Reading is SO important.
  • Clearly you are NOT comprehending.  Again, Apple had a GUI Operating System before  Microsoft.   That is a fact.   OS X was released in 2001.   That is another fact. Why you cannot understand this is beyond me.  
  • Good god, you are dense.  No one said that.  No one thinks that OS X was Apples first OS.   It is OS 10, fergawdsake.  As in,  version 10.  Versions 1 to 9 came before it.   What the H is wrong with you?  Do you just like to argue?  Do a GD search on when the Mac was released, and then look up when Windows was released. I’m done with you.  Have a horrible life, OK?
  • It took Apple YEARS to put a touch strip on a laptop, and people are expecting that they'll combine macOS and iOS; make macOS UI touch friendly; will run macOS on ARM; combine the App stores; put new OS in phones/desktops without any backward compatibility and peripherals issues, in a year? LOL.
  • "It took Apple YEARS to put a touch strip on a laptop, and people are expecting that they'll combine macOS and iOS; make macOS UI touch friendly; will run macOS on ARM; combine the App stores; put new OS in phones/desktops without any backward compatibility and peripherals issues, in a year?" #1 Windows is not a touch-friendly OS. I am almost exclusively a Windows tablet guy (because I've managed to acquire them for a song or got them through work) and am constantly frustrated by the interface. A touch strip is no better or worse than the state of Windows' touch support! #2 macOS on ARM is a trivial task. Apple's developers largely use Apple's own IDE. All you need to run on ARM is a recompile for a different platform. Apple has a lot of experience switching platforms. It has transitioned its desktop OS twice in the past quarter century and its forced a complete rewrite of applications when it transitioned from Mac OS to Mac OS X (effectively it was a whole new OS). #3 Apple has lots of experience running apps seamlessly using compatibility layers. It has a LONG history of invisibly emulating other processors to the point where the end user has no clue. Mac OS on PPC emulated 68K for its entire existence (1994 to 2000). Mac OS X ran a whole operating system ("Classic") as an application. Mac OS X for Intel seamlessly emulated PPC when Apple transition from PPC to Intel processors. If anyone can pull off a unifying move it's Apple. They have the vertical integration, the experience and the standards. PS while the touch strip is a joke, consider that Apple does have--BY FAR--the best touch OS in the business! iOS makes Windows 10 look like amateur hour when it comes to touch.
  • > the best touch OS in the business
    hnnn.... tbh, when I try the innovative task manager on iPhoneX...
    1. bring out the task manager take longer time.
    2. need long press on the app snapshots to bring out that tiny (x) button...
    I welcome innovation, new control scheme but this... is degradation.
    My gf had trouble handling it too, just like how I struggled the 1st time. And now every app on the market need to be patched for the X… iOS's task manager stacks apps horizontally, Android's task manager stacks apps vertically. And you can stack more vertically. If you can stack more, 1) you can see more items on the screen, 2) removing item will trigger bring-items-to-center-animation less frequently. Having 20 items on the stack, removing item number 10, 9, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1 is faster to perform on Androids. A lot more efficient.
    Also, how fast can you go back to previous app on iOS? It's double tap task button on Android (or you can tap back button once).
    How about AppA -> AppB -> AppA -> AppB? It's Double tap (to A), double tap (to B), Double tap (to A), double tap (to B). Android does many things better and requires lesser steps, however, I'm prob leaving Android for a win10pc in my pocket. Things I might do on it?
    XPA gaming docking on a gamepad style? OneDrive on Demand so that I can store more files than a HDD can handle? Inking (during meeting, instead a huge Surface Pro, a smaller one's more convenient)? Drafting (ideas come&go)? Some occasional Photoshop?
    I might not be able to run Unreal, Unity or Dx+Havok, but I think I can do some light UWP programming, compile+QA.
    I won't be able to go kb-only on those small devices but, I do want to inject codes into Edge or Chrome, to automate things, to stop vid auto-play, remove ads, etc.
    Things I will miss on a mobile? Not much, expect games like Beat Street or Cat Bird... email, msg, news, etc can all be done on a PC. Than when I think back... 2012 is the year where Apple finally implemented resize-window-from-any-corner, omg... till today, Mac still is a keyboard-user-unfriendly OS.
    My colleagues was actually surprised when he found out the implementation... such software design decision... you don't wanna know what my colleague describe Mac fans.
  • @Hirox K: You are not a candidate for iOS or for Android... or for Windows for that matter. Your home is on Linux (except for the Unity piece ;). PS I hate the Android app switcher. It's annoying as **** and slow as molasses. If I wasn't invested in the Android way of doing things I'd happily switch to iOS (I need lots of devices which is why I'm on Android and not iOS). When I compare touch OSes I compare the level of frustration in terms of usage. My kids only know Android and Windows at home and they spend 80% of their tablet time with Windows 10 (10" and 7" tablets). The only place they get iPads on a regular basis is at school, and, that is highly restricted. The few times I've seem my kids on iOS I'm blown away by the difference in usability. iOS is "natural". Windows 10 causes me no end of headaches because the edge swipes are so useless and so easy to trigger and I have to provide soooooo much tech support. When I see my two year old using an iPhone to discover a whole slew of apps without my intervention and my five year old comes to me with problems on Android and my six year old complains about how hard the HP 1000 G2 (a decent touch tablet from every review) is to use it confirms my own observations about the OSes. PS Windows is not a keyboard friendly OS. It's only friendly if you only ever use Windows. I'm platform agnostic and the keyboard shortcuts on Windows are so frustratingly useless. To do something as simple as exit a program (alt-f4) you have to contort your hands into an unnatural positions. PS2 Why are you even bringing up keyboard control over an OS. A tablet is the antithesis of keyboard control. UWP apps are by-and-large hostile to keyboard shortcuts. PS3 I'd really like it if Microsoft were to make a better touch OS because this is the OS I'm using at the moment :( :( :(. Unfortunatly they've not pulled their head out of their *** long enough to think through the problems of touch. Windows is now so incredibly locked down it's useless. I'd love to disable all screen edge swipes but that's not possible. The only edge swipe that has any utility is from the left to bring up the app switcher and it should be move to the top. The rest of all those edge swipes should be completely eliminated. Or, at the very least they should require a double swipe to activate. A single swipe would get ignored and passed to the underlying application. A double-swipe could activate whatever rarely used feature of Windows (who other than some social media addict cares about that really @$@!##!@@# annoying notifications bar!!!!)
  • @Hirox K: You are not a candidate for iOS or for Android... or for Windows for that matter. Your home is on Linux (except for the Unity piece ;).
    I'm a main programmer in a major game studio, Linux def not our home.
    I own Alienware desktop, Alienware NBs, Surface Pro (my new daily drive), I also carry a xbox gamepad in my bag. No doubt I'm getting a 6" Win10ARM for XPA gaming and other features.
    PS I hate the Android app switcher. It's annoying as **** and slow as molasses. If I wasn't invested in the Android way of doing things I'd happily switch to iOS (I need lots of devices which is why I'm on Android and not iOS).
    Faster than iOS cause it can hold more items at a time. It's also much faster jumping between apps.
    3 buttons vs 1 button? There's no comparison. And iPhoneX is even worse than its predecessors.
    My GF (and me) was an iPhone user, now she can go back no more.
    She told me at some point, "now I see why you cannot go back to iOS"
    When I compare touch OSes I compare the level of frustration in terms of usage. My kids only know Android and Windows at home and they spend 80% of their tablet time with Windows 10 (10" and 7" tablets). The only place they get iPads on a regular basis is at school, and, that is highly restricted. The few times I've seem my kids on iOS I'm blown away by the difference in usability. iOS is "natural". Windows 10 causes me no end of headaches because the edge swipes are so useless and so easy to trigger and I have to provide soooooo much tech support. When I see my two year old using an iPhone to discover a whole slew of apps without my intervention and my five year old comes to me with problems on Android and my six year old complains about how hard the HP 1000 G2 (a decent touch tablet from every review) is to use it confirms my own observations about the OSes.
    paragraph seem irrelevant.
    PS Windows is not a keyboard friendly OS. It's only friendly if you only ever use Windows. I'm platform agnostic and the keyboard shortcuts on Windows are so frustratingly useless. To do something as simple as exit a program (alt-f4) you have to contort your hands into an unnatural positions.
    Except graphical software (& most UWP apps but I still have my work arounds) e.g. adobe, 3dsMax, unreal, I can operate Windows UI or settings e.g. window, volume, beightness, Chrome, Edge, Visual Studio, Office, File Explorer, etc without KB.
    PS2 Why are you even bringing up keyboard control over an OS. A tablet is the antithesis of keyboard control. UWP apps are by-and-large hostile to keyboard shortcuts.
    I only mention Windows in the postscript...
    1st example Is to question Apple why not implement such an easy-to-implement-and-useful-feature. And people who praised Mac...
    2nd example, show's how Mac is still incompetent. I can give you more if you want more examples.
    I don't use Windows in touch mode for most of the time. When I do use it in touch mode, tbh, I've no problem operating it. Only thing I miss is swipe input (and some other efficient, good VR-KB implementations) in Android, not just English, but also Japanese and Chinese.
  • <blockquote>Except graphical software (&amp; most UWP apps but I still have my work arounds) e.g. adobe, 3dsMax, unreal, I can operate Windows UI or settings e.g. window, volume, beightness, Chrome, Edge, Visual Studio, Office, File Explorer, etc without KB.</blockquote>
    Big miss typing here.
    I can operate Windows UI blablabla without a pointing device, not without KB.
  • macOS on ARM trivial? You clearly do not know much about software engineering. It's not only about recompiling, you have to create all the libraries, SDKS and everything properly optimized. That takes years. The fact they transitioned is true, but also is true there was a performance penalty doing so, and it will be the same in 2018.  Not sure what's your problem with touch support in W10 - but I am quite happy. The pen support, touch it's all right for me.
  • "macOS on ARM trivial? You clearly do not know much about software engineering." Likely more than you think ;). Seriously though, it is not exactly a complicated task for Apple because it does have a long history of successfully pulling off platform migrations. In my memory (two and a half decades) Apple has twice transitioned their main OS between three completely unrelated processors. Each of those transitions was pulled off with shockingly few headaches for users and in very short time. Apple transitioned its computers from 68K to PPC in only a year or two. The timeline for PPC to Intel was even shorter! The key thing is that Apple has a proven track record of success in transitioning platforms and their code base is largely written in higher order languages. Hardware is now fast enough that the performance penalty of unoptimized code is minimal. Look at a language like Java running in the JVM. The JVM is now performant enough to be useful even in demanding applications because the underlying hardware is so powerful.
  • I don't mind if it will take a longer time. Better than distributing a beta tablet OS.🙄
  • "While the shift to a more unified app platform is a great move, the idea that Apple will have solved it all out the gate is probably misguided." "Instead, I'd like to shift to where Microsoft is right now and going compared to Apple." Let's rewind to 2007 and Microsoft's Steve Ballmer: "Right now, we're selling millions and millions and millions of phones a year.  Apple is selling zero phones a year." That now infamous quote presaged the biggest change in the operating system market since the early 1980's, a quarter century ago. Apple is now in the driver's seat. They have the most valuable desktop presence in the industry in terms of profits and sales. The have the lion's share of mobile phone hardware profits. Contrast that with Microsoft which has no mobile phone hardware presence anymore and its desktop OS largely runs on cheap hardware.
  • You basically just said "things can really change fast in tech" therefor "everything will remain exactly as it is". lol. 
  • Not really. I'm saying Apple is in a very strong position. It's extraordinarily profitable in the right places. When Microsoft lost control of the mobile phone market it wasn't in a crazy profitable or in a good position. It had a mediocre product in Windows Phone while the same can't be said for iOS (unless you're one of the fanboi denizens that foul up these comments with gratuitous hate). Microsoft also had a lot of legal baggage having committed illegal acts and been publicly chastised for breaking the law. The market was hostile to Microsoft because they'd been such a bad corporate citizen. By comparison Apple is now a much more well liked corporate citizen and Microsoft is in a position of weakness. It failed (that's a crucial point) in the mobile market and was widely seen to fail. Google has not successfully cracked into the desktop market with its ChromeOS, only finding a foothold in the low-cost market. The vertical integration market is no slam dunk but Apple is best positioned to make a go of it since they have major presences in both mobile and desktop. The only place where there's still room is AR/VR but even there it's unlikely that anyone is going to have a massive headstart over anyone else. The key patents are already a few years old and everyone's been building up defensive patent portfolios for years now. No one will be able to claim dominance anymore. They all know how to play the defensive game now to assure access to the important patents.
  • @Drael646464 I remember why I posted that. In 2007 Ballmer was predicting the Windows Phone would be a juggernaut and that iPhone would fail because it's too expensive [and too late]. It was tongue-in-cheek but I see the potential for an undercurrent in the thinking again: Microsoft's plan for vertical integration is so advanced that there's no way Apple--that fashionable, over-priced, iSheeple supported company--could ever catch up. It's now easy to see that Apple actually has all the pieces in place to pull off a vertical integration much more successfully than Microsoft even though Microsoft has now had 4 or 5 years worth of public presence in this vertical integration quest. If Microsoft's profits were predicated on outfoxing Apple I would be putting my dollars into Apple. However, Microsoft's important plays are not in expanding their operating system profits. They are making money hand over fist from services and software. There is some overlap between the companies but not a huge amount (I could nearly see Apple or Google buying Windows from Microsoft in the not-so-distant future).
  • That said, if Apple succeeds it will pave the way for Microsoft to copy it and take the best ideas and finally make Windows 10 a touch-friendly OS rather than the mediocre experience it is now! For the record, I really, really,r eally wish that Microsoft could improve Windows 10's touch behaviors. Three of my Windows devices are now touch and I find that touch is little more than a gimmick, even on the medium end tablet with a stylus (HP 1000G2).
  • Apple's doing it the right way. They're going to use their big seller and well developed platform, the iPhone, to leverage into the regular computer market where they're behind. A dev can create an app for the iPhone, where there are tons of users, and then use that to explore the Mac market. It's a low risk, high reward dev effort. MSFT, the idiots, did it backwards/sideways. They ignored their big seller and well-developed platform, Windows/Win32, and created a platform with zero users and zero developers in an attempt to get into phones. Devs had to invest tons of time/money with little hope of actual sales ... a high risk, low reward scenario ... because the code didn't work on the systems most MSFT users had (Windows 7). It was destined to fail and ended up screwing up both platforms (WinRT/UWP is a terrible desktop API). What a disaster.
  • Microsoft fragmented their Sdks, that is even worse....
  • Where is the windows on arm device we were promised for December? THAT is the kingmaker piece to a unification strategy now - a mid sized touch device that runs UWP better than win32 but does both, in a market MS does well in (2 in 1s, tablets and laptops). Something that makes existing users prefer UWP via user experience but also offers benefits as counterweight (always on connectivity, instant on, next gen LTE). I've been waiting with baited breath for this release, and December is nearly over. Where is it?
  • ASUS is selling  the NovaGo which has Snapdragon 835, 8GB of LPDDR4 RAM and 256GB UFS 2.0 (near SATA 3 speeds) storage. it also has 2 USB 3.1 ports, HDMI out, fingerprint sensor, Snapdragon X16 Modem (Gigabit LTE), 22 hours battery life, backlit keyboard, supports Windows Ink, Windows Hello, Modern standby and 13"3 Led FullHD with 100% sRGB color gamut display
  • Apple said, the MacOS will never be touch enable, this will be a huge mistake in the future...
    Windows 10 touch is more and more popular now, i saw so many shop casher system using touchscreen now...with windows of course.
  • Apple will merge iOS and OS X into a single desktop/touch OS since their iPad Pro is a flop nobody is purchasing, much more people are interested on having a Surface Book made by Apple which can be detached and converted into a tablet but with the good keyboard design/Intel CPU /GPU on the keyboard which means 90% of the time is a laptop and only 10% of time it is a tablet for consumption purposes.
  • Where I live getting the base MacBook Air 13" is getting very affordable, on the other side, no Surface and 2 in 1 are at this price, which means Apple is loosing bilions for not upgrading OS X to support touch. This is how economy works, 2 in 1 are so high demand today that they cost more than Apple's expensive hardware. Strange times we live in today, as I always thought I would never get an Apple MacBook Air but now with such a bargain price I'm considering getting one in near future.
  • Or, if you like Apple, don’t bother.  Using Windows 10 is terrible. It works both ways.  
  • So the Windows lemmings  are as bad as the apple lemmings.   It depends on what you are used to, if you cnahge from one platform to the other you have a learning curve, simple as that, It don't mean one is better than the other, even if people think so, thety are different. When I changed from the Amiga to windows it was a learning curve, even if using wiindows was easier, Using the Amiga still used a lot fo command lines. But going from Workbench to windows was strange, mouse clicks was used in different ways, left click did things in windows that we used to use the right mouse button in worekbench. The same with OS X and windows, you put my Apple owning frind in front of an windows machine and she would be almost lost and she have used windows before many years ago, while I can get get around the baisc in OS X, due to using my friends Mac, I would still be lost if i had to go Mac type things.  My friend is not an Apple lemming, she just prefers Macs as they do what she wants and do it reliabily, computer and OS preoduced by the same company, makes a pretty reliable machine and she had been using Macs since the old CRT Imac was around, in fact she still have her old CRT Imac.  But she do not use an Iphone as she do not like them.  If I could justify the price of a MAc I would have got one myself befor eI updated this machine, but I prefer a machine I can update when things become out of date, maybe ion the next few years i will have a look at a Mac, an all in one machine, that looks tidy and no flipping cables all over the place.  The problem is, both Windows and Mac Os as it is now called is in my opinion going iont he worng direction, both intent in getting people onto their cloud servcices.    
  • I think it will work, yes. Microsoft has this tendency to either do nothing right, or take absolute ages, to the point where competitors get there first. UWP is a joke. It's painfully clear it stands for "will work on everything except mobile". As bad as Apple is, I'm quite confident they won't be doing that.
  • I'm a newbie in a sense just coming back to Microsoft mainly for college/productivity/career choice. I still have a Chromebook Pixel and Pixel XL that have matured together as far as convergence but I'm not installing Android apps at a record clip. Having a unified os has always been a dream I've wanted to see in real world use. We've become so much more mobile as a society but I feel like for the next year or more Microsoft needs to focus on how to REALLY get into the mobile game by offering that full os experience in mobile as said in this article and many others. The app gap is a big deal but if you can leverage Windows 10 Pro in mobile hardware somehow then the app gap disappears more. Want Chrome? Install the file. And you can go to desktop for most everything else. Once developers really get on board with UWP Microsoft will have a contender. They kill it with their Surface line of products. Just great pieces of hardware but while they're releasing/working their different OS related projects the competition is still advancing. And the hardware arms race in smartphones alone puts Microsoft at a huge disadvantage (yes I'm Captain Obvious). And Google has essentially killed the Android tablet with Chromebooks become more portable. Apple has their head in the sand with MacBooks that while very secure and useful don't offer much in portability and true iOS syncing (that I've seen at least). My daughter has a MacBook, iPhone 8, and Apple Watch and while she's only 13 she's in honors program and her workflow is convulated. I have a Surface Pro, Pixel XL, Chromebook Pixel for college courses, entertainment, and so on and can get far much more done faster. Sorry for the long post I just love the subject of Unified Operating Systems. And really hope Microsoft and the Surface team can really make some noise in 2018
  • Quote: "They could have easily extended WPF with more mobile oriented widgets. With .Net/WPF Microsoft could have had an universal API years before UWP. But instead they first went with Silverlight/Metro and then with UWP - both of which incompatble with .Net but also heavily stripped down - they took the most stupid approach." I think this is obvious to most people looking from the outside, but it's not obvious to Microsoft (for some reason). When anything fails to catch fire "Immediately," they ditch it for something else. This is why they are always renaming products, redoing products, reinventing the wheel, switching UIs and design languages, etc. Also, they will always favor enterprise users over consumers... If enterprise users don't know the difference between an Online and Offline SkyDrive file, they will rip it out for years while it is reworked for those people... This doesn't happen in iOS. I do think Apple is benefitting massively for their failure in Enterprise. Not being huge in that market has really allowed them to develop in ways that Microsoft would never allow themselves to, due to their Enterprise focus. I use Windows for gaming, and that's it. Nothing productively gets done on it outside of that. Edge and Groove don't even have menu options to open a file from local storage... Those are the kinds of design/UX holes permeating this OS.