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Microsoft on lack of frequent updates: We’re listening, more to come this year

There’s been a common complaint from the Windows Phone community the past few months around a seemingly lack of urgency with Microsoft to release updates. Windows Phone 8 launched at the end of last October and since then we haven’t had much in terms of OS updates. Right now GDR2 is beginning to roll out for a few of you, but other than that not much. Microsoft’s Joe Belfiore recently took to the Windows Phone UserVoice to address some of that criticism.

For those who don’t spend every waking moment online: UserVoice is service that companies can utilize to engage customers. The most common application is to create a forum type setup where users can help provide feedback to the company. In this particular case, the Windows Phone UserVoice is where a lot of your fellow comrades go to provide Microsoft with feedback and ideas for future versions of Windows Phone. You can sort threads through a variety of ways, for example by hot ideas, top, new, the status, and categories. One particular thread was trending in the hot section, so Joe Belfiore stepped in.

It was titled “We need Microsoft to listen to our ideas and DO something”, this was the content inside:

“Ok, we're here after a year of WP8. We're about to get the GDR2 update and we're still not getting anything from the TOP ideas of this forum.Sometimes I'm wondering Microsoft is listening or not. Or they just simply try to convince us to buy the phone and then leave us here.GDR2 is just a small update, I see no actual features with high demand from customer on this update.Things need to changed, OR, we'll leave this OS. Do something, Microsoft, before it's too late.Who's with me, please vote!”

Quite a strong post right? Well it caught the attention of the community and was accumulating a lot of replies and votes that helped accelerate it to the top of the hot category. In those replies was one from Joe Belfiore addressing the main thread and the hundreds of replies within. Here’s what he said:

“We're definitely here and paying attention to what you folks are asking for... keep in mind the trick for us is balancing things that make EXISTING devices better for you, our enthusiast users, versus things that create new devices to sell to a broader audience. A lot of the work in GDR2 was around enabling new devices-- like the Lumia 1020, devices on Sprint, etc. so that we could keep growing the size of the WP ecosystem. We need to grow the number of people using WP so we get ISVs writing the apps, we get better/more accessories built, etc.Of course this takes time and energy, but we still do intend to improve the user experience for you via new features. There's some in GDR 2 (eg. DataSense broadly available, FM Radio) there's more coming later this year, and still more after that.Don't worry - we are listening to you folks!”

He brings up a very valid point and should help bring a few of us off our high horses. It was something we noticed yesterday in the comments for the leaked (and now confirmed) specs for the Lumia 625. Microsoft and Nokia have to find the balance between satisfying two extremes in the market –The tech nerds (you, me, and everyone most likely reading this site) and the rest of the world.

Microsoft and Windows Phone are still in a distant third place when it comes to mobile platforms. So we need to ask what should be higher on the priority list. Satisfying the needs of a few or the needs of many? And right now Joe seems to have answered that for Microsoft. They’re placing a higher priority on growing the ecosystem right now versus implementing ideas that appeal to a vocal minority. And honestly that’s probably the right thing to do. Building up a large user base for developers will be benefit us all and have a positive impact on the platform that lasts longer than simply adding the ability to control media and ringtone volume separately (as much as we all want that!).  

You shouldn’t write off Windows Phone if you’re into technology. Joe goes onto promise future updates coming this year. And he’s right. While they won’t go on record, we know that GDR3 is coming sometime in the fall followed by Windows Phone Blue (8.1) early next year. The biggest thing that GDR3 will bring to the table is support for higher resolution displays – like those 1080p ones are frenemies over at Android Central get to play with.

So what do you guys think? Do you sympathize with Microsoft being in a tough position to find the balance between growing the ecosystem/platform versus adding new features every week? Or should they just suck it up and double down? Sound off with your thoughts below, because today we all get to play armchair analysts.

Source: Windows Phone UserVoice, Via: Neowin

519 Comments
  • Heck, I dont even have my 7.8 update yet.
  • pity :(
  • Yea that's been a joke. My son's Lumia 900 received it bit my wife's Quantum didn't.
  • Why would you do that to your wife? a Quantum?
  • Can't you do the force update trick... IIRC you check for updates on Zune but disconnect at the right moment before it checks your phone model or whatnot... That's what I did for my old HTC arrive.
  • Nope, because the scumlords at ATT never flipped the switch to make them available on the update servers.
  • Microsoft needs to take control away from the damn carriers NOW.
     
  • Before you come to that conclusion, especially in a manner in which you're delivering it as something MS is doing wrong, you need to find out if that is even possible in the US.
  • Apple did it 'cause Apple puts convenience of its users above else, MS can't do this because they don't give a s*it about their users. They just feed us with stupid promises like that infamous "enthusiast program". Yea you can suck your empty promises MS, I don't give a f*ck about ya anymore.
  • I guess, but Microsoft can't afford that now. Look at why Russian carriers stopped carrying the iPhone.
  • I'm pretty sure that Microsoft and Google would love it if they could push out updates without the Carrier's input.
    The only reason Apple has this is because Apple will skip a carrier if Apple doesn't get the role of extreme overlord of its OS. The carrier's still, at this point, need iOS (many tech blogs have discussed why a carrier hosting the iPhone is a burden, and yet they still desperately need it).
    Meanwhile, carrier's don't really need Android or Windows Phone devices. There are so many Androids on the market, if they can't make a deal on a device, they just turn around and another deal is awaiting them. Likewise, Windows Phone is still trying to get a good foothold in the market, so it's weak and vulnerable.
    I don't think any manufactures are very fond of carriers getting final say in software updates, and the carriers being allowed to add their logos and crapware to devices, but it's the sad reality, it's the only way a carrier will allow a device to sell.
    Perhaps in the future, when the manufacturers get more power, they'll get more say, but for now, Apple has all the good playing cards, so everyone else is left at the mercy of the carriers.
  • Then Microsoft should release update for country that not depend on carrier faster. currently, even in country like Indonesia or Malaysia or any similar country that almost all device is unlocked, OEM directly sell to user. but we still need to wait 2-4 months after official release by microsoft. (happen last time with portico).
  • Then the customers in the countries that tech media covered more closely (USA) will get pissed off that they get theirs later, demand to the carriers, and carriers decide to stop the problem right from the source (tell Microsoft to stop giving early updates)
  • one of the reasons Microsoft can't do it is because Microsoft doesn't make there own phones like apple does. So at the end of the day Microsoft doesn't get to decide who gets what update, the carrier does. Now if Microsoft released its own phone like apple then they would be in total control
  • Wow, how does that bitter sandwich taste? Mmmm, yum!
  • Or use seven-eighter to easy force it
  • My wife would have kept her Quantum. She liked it more than the 8X she has after switching carriers. "Too big" "Doesn't have a keyboard" "Flimsy feeling" were her issues with it. I'm with her on the keyboard. I would dump my 928 in a heartbeat for a keyboard phone. (Didn't get the Quantum myself because the keyboard was too small for the slabs of ham I call hands)
  • I had an 8X for a minute, flimsy is not a word I would use to describe it. It's thin yes, and has some build quality issues but the phone is as sturdy as any slab could be.
  • The Quantum, the best WP to ever be released, will not receive the update, unfortunately. However, you can find information here in the forums on how to go get it.
  • The Quantum I gave to my friend to use had 7.8. I just plugged it in and it installed. The latest version came too. I just hate how 7.8 felt so laggy.
  • I had a Quantum as well. The single trick that worked for me was using seven eighter:
    http://wmpoweruser.com/seven-eighter-app-which-force-wp-7-8-update-upgra...
    Try it and come back with your results (hopefully, good).
  • With the $99 Nokia coming there is no excuse why any ATT user is still on Windows Phone 7
  • Excuse: Upgrade date not reached yet.
  • You need to move on man
  • Some people have two year contracts, it's not as simple as "moving on".
  • I think he meant divorce the wife.
  • ROFLMAO!
  • That's an even harder contract to break :/
  • That's how I read it too :)
  • Me too when i got the 900. However i sold the 900 on ebay and only came out of pocket for $50 for my 920 off contract.
  • Thinking about doing that with my 920 for the 1020. Can't decide though, don't know to do that or just wait it out and buy something off contract this time next year. Ahhhhhhh first world problems!!!
  • I will buy the 1020 on contract and given its high price ,its likely it will still sell at or around 400 a year or so from now if in pristine condition. At which point I'd pony up the difference for another flagship Lumia. 1st world solutions!!
  • That's the nasty carrier problem we face at work. If/when WPs ecosystem grows to a respectable size then MS can push for updates to go out with less pushback from the carriers.
  • Still need an update to push though.
  • use 7 eighter to update your mobile ... i did it for my samsung focus long time back
  • A pity indeed. I've tried force update and 7 Eighter several times, no luck. I've already lost patience. Samsung's not answering the rabid fans too when are we getting the update. We're already on the the second half of the year and WP 8.1 might come Q4 and yet, we can't even get the update. Samsung's reps keep on changing their tune. People are really mad.
    I wanted to get Lumia 920 back then, but when it arrived in my country (Philippines); rumor about the kick@ss 1020 surfaces so I was like do I have to invest on 1020 instead? It's launching this July but who knows when it will arrive to my country again, it's really diasappointing. Hopefully Nokia will realize to not have a simultaneuos release but fast track all these things to catch up with competitng OS.
    LOL, my post became a bit out of topic but all I'm pointing out is it's a domino effect. Delayed OS update > delayed device release etc etc. Anyway, carry on. :)
     
  • honestly, 7.8 doesn't add much value to 7.5. however, the trick to using the 7eighter tool is the section about choosing the language packs that are installed on your device. I had more language packs on my hd7 than the tool, so i selected all of the ones available on the tool. anyway, smooth install. retained all of my data including SMS.
  • dude you have to realized.. phones released here in the usa are totally different in another country...for example the 1020 has the new lte chip which the philippines dont have,and phones here in the usa are subsidised by carrier,in the philippines most of people use prepaid ryt?? be patient or buy it off contract..goodluck dude..
  • We have LTE here sir... :)
  • [Deleted. Comment is too sexy]
  • Samsung was my first WP, but I learned my lesson fast! They're holding back WP updates so you can get frustrated and hopefully purchase one of their beloved GS devices. I hope you simply dump them and chose Nokia or HTC for WP!!
  • I am giving WP 8 one more year just tired of simple things that annoy me. I have been a strong supporter since the 900. I was not even mad when they switched to WP 8. My biggest issue is notifications the tiles simply do not work except the OS tiles like email, calendar (which is joke in terms of usability). Don't even get me started on other storage I have 12 gb stuck in it no idea what it is. I can't download new map updates or even download big games. I had to delete the maps which I use almost every day, to make space for some apps and files. My work gave a choice of iPhone or galaxy s3, even though I took s3 my daily phone is 920. If major changes don't come to notifications and other issues there is no way I can stay with WP 8.
  • Regardless, I'm not braking up with Windows Phone, not just yet. I am a very proud Samsung Focus user. I love the phone, the camera and the expandable storage, no qualms on that.
     
    And I'm proud that I was able to convert some of my siblings on using Windows Phone. But this kind of love (with the OS and device) should be rewarded properly, hence, give us an update. We already got tired with Samsung Support reps, they keep on changing answers everyday as to whern do we really get an update. It doesn't matter if they say January 2014, that's fine with me, but they should walk the talk. The rep goes like, oh you'll be getting the update by June, then come June, they said they really don't know. Why can't they give us a firm roll-out. Was it that complicated?
  • If you're using a Lumia 920, you can easily use the Storage Check app to remove the temp files in your "other" storage.  It's in the Settings -> System -> Storage Check (near the bottom of the list).  It is nice because it tells you which apps are taking up storage in "other" as well as how much is taken by temp files and lets you delete the temp files.  It took my temp files from 9 GB down to 700 MB (large, but still acceptable on a 32 GB device).
    I'm not sure what's wrong with your 3rd party live tiles.  I have lots of 3rd party apps with tiles that work fine.  On a daily basis, I use Simple Calendar, LINE, Twitter, Row, and Weather Flow and they work great and update fine.  Don't get me wrong, I understand the need for a notification center as well, but I don't know why your tiles wouldn't be working...
  • The next person that say's Storage Check is a fix for this I'm gonna hunt down n strangle lol its NOT a fix! It does f#ck all!!! Yesterday it took a "massive" 2mb out of temp n I don't believe u wen u say it went from 9gb to 700mb coz I had 20gb n was lucky to get 300mb back!
  • +1
  • Thanks for jumping down my throat dude.  I was just trying to be helpful to the poster above.  Sorry, Storage Check is not working for you.  You can go bite someone's head off who works for Microsoft or Nokia (which is not me).  I was just trying to be helpful, which you certainly aren't.  Do you have 20 GB actually in temp or do you have 20 GB in "Other"?
  • It doesn't matter if you know why his tiles won't update, the fact of the matter is the live tiles don't update on numerous devices which you should know if you read the forums. WP users are tired of dealing with having to do hard resets in order to get the live tiles to update.Not to mention the infamous wheels of death MS has yet to address.
  • I have a friend who started with the focus and then upgraded to the 920... and he's pretty much called it quits on WP oS. He's going to jump ship & all he's waiting for is on the Moto X (smh). I tried to tell him about the 1020's 41 mp goodness but he's had it with the platform. His biggest complaint was lack of support by developers and all the great apps he's missing out by staying.
    I can't blame him... There's so much potential on the WP oS.
  • What "great apps" are missing??
  • Your just gonna argue your point so dont worry what apps are missing just know that his friend can't find what he wants on wp
  • I totally agree, I'm a huge fan of Microsoft and WP8, I even used to own a Samsung windows mobile 6.I've been patient for a very long time and I still don't have the features nor the apps that I need when everyone else around me are happy with their android and iphone devices. I'm giving WP8 one more year or till WP blue 8.1 is released to see what features they will include, if WP blue 8.1 doesn't have what I need then I'm switching to android.
  • Yeah... Ok.
  • leo9212, if you need so much storage space, why didn't you bought the Samsung Ativ S ? I have one with 16GB + 64GB external storage! It gives to me the ability to use 14,68GB + 59,02GB for everything I need! PS: I'm 17 years old, I have lots of apps, games, music, videos and even CoPilot Live with the 3D and Europe maps pack and I use only 8GB of internal storage and 10GB of external storage...
  • That's not the point. I can buy a WP 8 phone with external storage but I really like Nokia and their designs the point is even though I have 32 gigs as advertised I can't even use half of it
  • It's called compromise. You end up doing it to some extent with damn near every product you ever buy
  • I'm sorry, you need a hard reset.. Just do it❕
  • I feel your pain but I'm sure that these problems will be solved at the most by early next year with gdr3 update. With regards to the other storage issue. Why don't you just use Nokia's app ?
  • The Nokia Storage app doesn't remove other storage only temporary memory, and doing a factory reset on the Lumia 920 breaks windows thus killing the phone
  • What are you talking about❔... Is your 920 carrier unlocked❔
  • That stinks about your other storage. I personally have never had over 1gb in other storage. Have you thought about a reset, I know nobody wants to I've had to do it 4 times now due to my phone messing up but it may be worth it to get your storage in check.
  • doing a factory reset on the Lumia 920 breaks windows thus killing the phone
  • I'm guessing (hoping) you have a Lumia, if so there's a storage app to free up that 12gigs. I recently seen a third party app too for non-Lumias' search on ya own tho
  • @leo9212 try shrink storage. I used it all the time until Nokia released other storage.
  • Tried everything to fix the storage issue. Even did factory reset twice but everytime the other storage fill up fast. Nokia storage actually helped before I was at 18 gb other storage unbelievable. It took it down to 13 and now 12.
  • I had tried Shrink Storage, that app needs to be restarted after clean temporary files, it is not clean all temporarily files, the same with Storage Cleaner, not clean all temporary files.
  • If you haven't received the update, it is more of an issue with the OEM/carrier, than with Microsoft.  You don't see people upset at Google when an HTC device doesn't receive an Android update. 
  • Google didn't tell everyone they'd be getting updates.  Microsoft pitched the phone as an OS with regular updates, and ones that would get to your phone, an OS that was not fractured.
    And what we have is an OS that is fractured.
    Personally, i regret buying a WP8 greatly.
  • Actually google did promise updates for 18 months per OEM and device. In Fact HTC, and other oems have broken the "so called contract" with google to support its devices for 18 months. Case in point, the HTC One X as an example.
  • The updates or more specificaly, lack thereof, is a Microsoft issue they, in their allmighty wisdom, decided to give the carriers the power to block updates, so they are the ones at fault.
    After executing updates for Windows for decades it is beyond belief that they could screw it so much for WP.
    Its as if your Internet provider had the ability to block Windows updates for you, no one would accept that so why are people ok with carriers blocking updates, the carriers are nothing more than service providers providing you with a link to the 'network' just as internet service providers do for you PCs.
  • Why are you blaming MS, but giving a pass to the carriers? Have you actually researched this, or just decided to complain?
  • well i actually found 7.8 to be slow at launching from main tiles screen.... made me not like it. 7.5 is smoother.
  • I decided to manually update to 7.8 by finding the update packages online and installing them. Otherwise I would be in the same boat.
  • I'm 103% sure that someone will have Windows 8.1 running the HD7 before you get 7.8.
  • The update for HD7 is available though. I got 7.8 via Telstra 4 weeks after release. It's AT&T that's screwing them
  • Exactly, I am waiting for 7.8 update on my Samsung Focus (ATT) as well, and STILL NOTHING. Microsoft can go screw themselves with empty promises about later this year, early next year for 8.1; yeah right.....will be lucky if we see GDR3 and 8.1 by August next year from ATT and their crap support and blocking of WP updates.
    Until Microsoft makes all updates compulsary and takes control of the release completely, they and WP are going to fail.
     
  • Why are you still on a Samsung Focus? If your reason is because of a contract, the upcoming $99 Nokia, you have no excuse. There is no reason why MS needs to be supporting your old OS.
  • StoRAGEEEEEEEEE problem!!!!!!!!!!!
  • What about the FIX for the "Other storage" issue?
    Its really annoying. Its curretly occupied 3GB in my 820.
  • Sadly right now the only fix is factory reset :(
  • Mines at 9 gbs on my 920
  • 9gb ? Try that Clean storage app...I bet it will pull you down to 6gb or less..
  • use storage check APP
  • Apparently we are part of the vocal minority, 1080p screens seem a little more important at the moment.
  • Considering the 1280x768 screen on my 925 is gorgeous, I'd gladly pass on 1080p screens.
  • +1
     
  • +925
  • +8X
  • +8X
     
    That's exactly how I felt when I saw that line as well.
  • or add "Install apps and games on the SD support" at least.
    The storage is also killing me on my L820, i don't care about 1080p resolution (i have a HD TV for that) or data sense or any other features like that.
    I managed to install Halo SA (from SD card) by removing 7 games (including Asphalt 7) from my phone, otherwise i was low in storage space.
  • it's killing me too up to the point that I sold my Lumia 820 and upgraded to Lumia 920. I can live with normal 8mp camera but it's PITA to delete several games before installing large game then install them back just so you can have sufficient storage. not to mention that I already reset my phone twice before realizing the other storage issue is caused by auto uploading photos to skydrive.
  • …auto uploading photos to SkyDrive...  that is a big part of the problem, but not the only problem.  I believe just installing apps leads to the growth of the other storage.  My got up to over 10GB on my Lumia 822 (16GB internal, but at least I have a micro-SD).  I ended up doing a factory reset. After re-installing about 2GB of apps, I went down from 12GB free to about 8 GB. 
  • What's with the complaints about the "other" storage?I had a 620 & now I have the 820, and never had problems with that storage.On both it grabbed around 1.4Gb and stayed there for months.That "Storage check" works pretty well keeping it under control.
  • What isn't a problem for you, is a problem for many of us.  
     
    So, that would be what the complaints are about.  I'm at 3.2 on Other on an 8 gb phone.  Is over a third of my storage dedicated to Other worth complaining about?  Very much so.
     
    Storage Check is useless to me.  It clears up maybe .3 gb and most of that is from clearling IE history
  • I bought a game about a month ago. I still can't install it. If that's not a huge problem for a phone, I don't know what is.
  • People don't realize exactly how much of that Other Storage is being occupied by the number of apps and the app data that is consuming a major amount of memory. I've noticed that since WP8 is based on the NT kernel, each app that is installed usually uncompress from a 2 to 4 Mb file into a 40 to 60 Mb file, and that is not including app data. Of course there is something wrong with the Other Storage, but with the shrink storage app and Nokias and Htc's storage check app with ability to delete temporary files, will really help tremendously. Keep an eye on how much app data one uses, its more than you think.
  • I had tried Shrink Storage, that app needs to be restarted after clean temporary files, it is not clean all temporarily files, the same with Storage Cleaner, not clean all temporary files.
  • Yes, the fact that they are just leaving this one out there waving in the wind is just mind boggling.  I refuse to recommend WP to people when they may very well be back in two months with no storage.
     
    And then to compound the issue, no way to save game progress is a real killer.  "We can reset your phone but all those Angry Birds levels you've spent 30 hours on to try and complete the achievements are out the window.  Sorry dude."
     
    Microsoft should feel 100 times as embarressed and ashamed of themselves as I feel for them.  Unfortunately, they don't seem to give a shit on this one.
  • I have 3.25gb other in my Lumia 820.They release games like halo to install but how to install when there is no space.
  • I have 16GB in other on my 920 :'(
  • I do agree with MS's point but thing wouldn't come to this if they were a lot more responsive to the community. When you have a small community then you need to work hard at fostering it and not ignoring it. These guys are the core that will show off their phones to people at work and recommend it.
  • Agreed. Communication is important no matter what. 
  • Communication is key, but as we've seen with the Xbox One debacle, it's not a strong suit for the company right now. 
     
    More than updates to the OS (there's nothing missing that I really want or need) I would like to see MS engage more with their consumers. Relatively speaking the userbase is small enough to start having conversations about the future of the platform and features that will be added.
     
    I can understand the need for secrecy around new/revolutionary features, but they shouldn't have any issues in discussing WP versions of features that exist on other OSs. Heck, they don't even need to provide screenshots, it'd just be nice to see blog posts detailing some of what they're working on.
  • +1
  • Somehow we need to get MS to realize that the whole "shut up and ship" theory that they have been operating under does more harm than good. Yes, you will prevent a few users from being upset when you can't follow through with something that was announced, but the flip side is incredible frustration and the appearance of simply not caring or listening to users. People are willing to be MUCH more patient waiting for something when they know it's coming than when they have no idea and MS won't comment on it. They will still complain, but that's better than them feeling abandoned and unlistened to.
  • Exactly. "Shut up and ship" works when you're iterating quickly and your carrier and OEM "partners" are cooperative in quickly getting updates (especially bug fixes) out to users. But when you release 2-3 updates per year, and your "partners" drag their feet at every opportunity for months, it just makes it look like you are either completely mismanaged or could just care less about fixing/improving the product you supposedly support.
  • So far, no one in my family will switch from an iPhone. Because when I do try and boast that that xbox music is better than itunes, or that TellMe is better than Siri, or that Live Tiles are an answer to a notification center, Bing better than google, etc... - it just comes off as uppity.
  • Well, I don't know that Tellme is better than Siri, I see quite a gap in user functionality today. I see Xbox Music as a much closer fight with it and iTunes scoring separate points. But you're larger point and enthusiasm are right on!
  • I don't talk about it. I just do things nonchalantly that show how its better. Like take pictures in dimly lit rooms with my 920, show off neat apps like cinemagraph and here maps with live sight, and just show off the dynamic live tiles. Showing is better than telling.
  • Yeah.  I don't talk about my WP8 because there's really nothing to showoff except for City Lens.  My Android and iPhone friends were amazed when using this app in new places.
  • if live tiles worked all the time but my instance doesn't update anymore, twiter sometimes, and fb is hit or miss. like ill open it and ill have like 8 notifications and no update on the tile. If live tiles worked I wouldnt be calling for notification center as much but when fb is by microsoft corporation and they can't even get it to work right. that one is a loss but yea i do the same with my friends but the only one that they wow indiscriminatly is definitely citylens from HEREmaps
  • +11111
    If they could only get the things to work reliably.
  • TellMe is pretty awful. I have to repeat myself 10 times just for it to understand a simple sentence. I haven't used Siri to compare though. It also ties into Bing, which is also pretty awful on WP. Both of those could be because I'm not in the US and apparently they're quite good there as MS typically ignores the rest of the world or only gives us half-arsed versions
  • I agree! There should be a balance between their position and our interests.
  • Exactly. They've seemed to split their audience up into two silos as if the enthusiasts aren't the ones showing off the phone and bringing in new users.
  • I usually wait a year to update it anyways. More exciting having a lot of new stuff added at once. I really want custom text tones next.
  • Yes, can't understand why we can't set custom text tones. I hate the ones that come with the phone. They just come off as "old man" sounding.
  • Holy **** that used to piss me off I just got used to it but man I wish we could get custom text tones. like things like that it may actually be really difficult but it doesn't seem like it and its one of those basic things that when it isn't included it just makes you scoff
  • Yeah, but we're behind on simple, basic features some of our feature phones had.. This excuse is simply not good enough... Separate volume controls have been requested for what is years now, and it should've come no later than with the 7.5 update... Try again Joe❕
  • More as in tiles :P
  • As in tile colors :P
  • Custom colors and/or image backgrounds for tiles. :)
  • Agreed.
  • I'm waiting for notifications, once that's added, apple and android are history.
  • Bullshit!!! Stuff like those update to support borader spectrum of hardware should have been implemented right from the start.... What did MS expect when they launched WP8, to support only a handful of configurations on hardware side when they are fighting against a mammoth like android? I love Windows Phone for its awesome UI and simplicity but it needs to offer more and fast
  • +1
  • Totally agree.  For a company that is way too late to the mobile market and has only a sliver of marketshare they sure doesn't seem to be listening.  I hear countless stories about how sales people at carrier stores refuse to promote WP.  The lack of updates really just gives them more of a reason to not push the brand when they know it is, in some ways, an inferior OS.  Maybe I"m being too hard on them but it would seem that at the very least they could patch things like custom ringtones and independent volume control for music and ringer without waiting for a major update.  
  • that´s look very easy to implemente.... It cant be THAT hard for Microsoft do this..... what about the option to click on the upper right corner icon and navigate from silente,vibrate, and vibrate + ring... not rocket Science....really...
  • +920
  • I work in another area of the high tech industry and I hear my bosses making these same type of complaints, but stuff takes time. It's the, "if one woman can create a baby in nines months, then nine women can produce a baby in one month". It just doesn't work that way. You can only throw so many resources at a project before you just end up with people getting in the way and actually delaying a project rather than speeding it up. Too many people are saying Microsoft should have waited until they had all the "important" features. Well, that's not going to happen; not even for iPhone and Android because there will always be the next new important feature. Would you have preferred Microsoft wait another two or three years before launching the Windows Phone?
    I realize it can be frustrating when the phone doesn't have that one feature you'd really like, but are you really willing to give up all the other great things about the Windows Phone simply because it doesn't yet have one feature? Is that one feature that important to give up the goodness of the Windows Phone. If it is, I wonder why you (and I mean you generically; not any one specific person) bought the Windows Phone in the first place.
    Keep voicing your opinions and let Microsoft know what you feel is important, but please don't give up on the Windows Phone. It's an awesome OS and the Nokia Phones equal to or better than any Android or iPhone.
  • +920
    Very well said
  • I completely agree. As an engineer myself, I approve this comment.
  • Which that GREAT thing you're talking about ?? Huh ?? Except UI, which unique thing WP provides you ??
    This doesn't work in consumer world. People have options and they're always ready to jump the ships if you can't deliver.
    I don't think implementing separate volume controls or hell even setting custom ringtone is a rocket science. This is clear cut case of negligence from MS part. Such basic things needs to be there from 1st place. It's not even something new or fresh feature of other OS, it's grandpa of every feature.
  • +925 Just love my new NL925, and it's beautiful and sleek. I used to have an Samsung Galaxy Vibrant had notification and more, but it freezes and lags. What is the use of the phone with all the trimmings if you can't answer a simple telephone calls without freezing.
  • As a software developer,  I completely agree with this and kudos to you for the Mythical Man-Month reference.  That book should be required reading for any software developer IMHO.  :)
  • +620
    I totally agree with your comment! We all need to think about it.
  • We are not talking about a month, two months, or even 6 months. 
    There are BASIC features on my 920 that iOS and Android have had. There are features that just don't work right in the 920. Heck, I can't even get phone numbers on websites to relibably recognize - most of the time I have to memorize them. Live tiles just stopping updating. The phone suddenly becoming a pocket heater and draining all battery in an hour, seperate volume controls and smart volume (remembering your settings for headphones vs bluetooth for instance). 
    I could go ON AND ON. The fact is, this is a OS. You CAN have one developer working on something like volume and another one working on disply and another one working on live tiles. MS seems to have no problem pushing out patches for Windows 8 desktop. Let me check my Windows Update history right now... Hrm, 50 updates this month - about half Windows Defender. I tried to count since last december all the updates that were not Windows Defender and I stopped at 150.
     
    MS needs to be delivering feature fixes and updates at LEAST quarterly. Unless 8.1 is the most polished mobile OS in the world to rival both Android and iOS - or even put them to shame - MS is going to lose this battle. Period.
    I like the idea behind WP8 and really like Nokia aftering owning a 920 since release, but I will not recommend this OS to anyone. My wife is a huge camera-phone person. She takes more pictures than anyone I know. I would love to get her the new 1020 today, but I will not saddle her with the problems that this OS delivers.
    Anyone from MS reading this?? Get of your ass and do something. sheesh.
  • The power of WP IS that it only supports a handfull of configs. Android needs way to much power to stay flued, because of the support for any config.
    MS is doing GREAT with Nokia as main partner and providing phones for several markets. If they want to live, they need to stay on this course.
  • It's just more excuses, just like WP8. There was almost nothing new over WP7, but it took so long to release because it was a full rewrite and would allow all these synergies between Windows 8 and Windows Phone.
    Well, here we are a year later and where are the synergies? What was the point of spending all the time since early 2011 rewriting the OS from scratch without adding new features?
    I know sometimes you have to break a few eggs to make an omlette, but where is the omlette?!?!?
  • Yeah I agree. I refuse to promote Windows Phone to anybody, it simply doesn't have what the younger generation wants, flexibility and freedom. I use my 920 still, mainly as a backup media device now, but have got an iPhone 5 as my main driver now and am not regretting the switch at all! It's nice to have all the new apps to try out, and not third party apps a year later. I hate Android, although most people in my age range prefer it (more flexibility and freedom), so I didn't even consider going that route. But if Microsoft doesn't change a lot of minor things and a few major ones, soon, they might as well quit or market to old guys who don't know any better.
  • Bro u are a dramatic lol b..... I had and iPhone 5 and sold it to get my Lumia 925 , what can u do on ios that I can't do here oh wait install 3 million apps , pls ios 7 is a pure copy of wp8 by the end of the year WP will have all the apps we need .
  • you can't swipe a credit card.
  • yes, you can...one of the vendors who do CC processing supports Windows Phone..
  • Well, one thing I can do on my aged iOS iPhone4 is I can plug in my headphones and click on the in-line controller and the phone will start playing whatever I last played, months and months after (I rarely use my old iPhone, my 920 is my main device). On WP8, stop playing a song, an audiobook, a podcast for a few minutes and forget easily starting up again. Or maybe it is the fact that my iPhone remembers the volume settings for various configurations. Such as the speakerphone volume, ringer volume, headphone volume, bluetooth volume. I have one volume on my WP8. Or maybe, and try this yourself, an amazing amount of phone numbers and addresses on websites don't work as links to call or look up on WP8 that works great on iOS. Or maybe you just want to use a device you bought only to find out that Android and iOS are the only operating systems supported because MS can't get the marketshare to bring in developers - and by never fixing the issues they have, they aren't winning us over fast enough. I really dislike Apple, and I don't love iOS - but I could fill PAGES with what you can do on iOS that you can't do on WP8 at this time. I really hope that MS gets their act in gear. I like the OS, it just feels like I am using a beta phone these days - one where I never get a patch.
  • I agree❕... This excuse is not anywhere sufficient..
  • Really need just a few things, more sound & alert controls, notification center and VPN support and I will be happy.
  • +1
  • +1
  • +1
  • ➕1
  • +1 and security improvements for outlook/enterprise email users
  • +1 yes and that!
  • The guys over at WinPhoneViet initiated this and were gathering support for days!
    And it got heard! Kudos to them!
  • The people complaining may be a minority, but the real numbers are those who complain and don't know about uservoice. And the REAL real numbers are those who are never heard because these shortcomings mean they just don't buy Windows Phones in the first place.
  • Mostly androiders that never tried WP and never will...
  • +2^1024
  • Very true.
    They are selling new phone with THE SAME mistakes and lacks that WE, the current users, are complaining for ages. They never listen and uservoice loos like a place were they play good ("we are listening") but in fact they never listen (or like one user said "I think the Mobile Guru is a Bot").
    Stop with the bullshit MS.
  • Please fix 'other storage' and we'll be happy
  • So you and a million others mention this... Have you tried cleaning it up with storage check or other apps out there? I cleaned up 6GB easily.
  • That only cleans temporarily memory not other storage
  • We want the bug fixed, not these temporaries workarounds.
  • I think some of these features that are highly sought after by "techies" prevent them from making recommendations to friends and family, which limits growth. But I do agree that whatever needs to be done to attract companies to get out apps sooner is very important. Hearing people complain about not having fantasy sports, songpop, candy crush, etc. is annoying and it keeps them from adopting the platform or gets them to leave.
  • I agree. But the best way to achieve that is to grow the platform to make it worth the effort for developers to release apps on it.
  • Agreed, I could never recommend WP8 at my office simply because it won't read voicemail WAV files. Come on, MS, this is a bug that would take one developer one day to fix and you've sat on it for a year.
  • Even worse considering that WAV is a Microsoft owned codec.
  • I feel like they'd really catch the headlines if they focused on the cool consumer features rather than focus so much on all these price points. Yes in some countries, those 620s, 625s, and 520s look like gold nuggets... But in more developed countries with 1st world problems, we want features and specs and glamour and glitz. I'm just fine with the way windows phone is as many of you fellow WP fans are, but we would be lying to ourselves if we said certain IMPORTANT (xbox music, other memory, etc) issues didnt need to be fixed.
  • i can see why nokia is taking this route though, for example, Cisco used to be the largest network device seller, but DLink took over that title a few years ago by focusing on third world countries where Cisco neglected for the longest time, now replace Cisco with Samsung and DLink with Nokia then you might see why it's not always just about first world areas
     
    (i don't know who is number 1 between Cisco and DLink now though... that news was like 5 years ago)
  • Why do you see budget phones as only having potential in developing countries...? Or did I read that wrong? Obviously they have to push the budget phones as these are the big sellers, make the most money and reach the most people.
  • Maybe because in America at least, phones are heavy subsidized down to "budget phone" prices. Any budget phones would and should only be sold on carriers OTHER than the top 4. That would be like Cricket, MetroPCS, and backwudz cell companies for ppl in upper PA and the wilderness of Utah.
  • I live in a developed country and only allocated enough in my budget for a "budget phone". As do many many others. I was looking at the price much more than the specs - as do most people, regardless of where they live.
     
    If you look at specs before price, then you my friend, have both more money than sense and are in a tiny minority of mobile phone owners. Congratulations.
  • I'm curious as to what monetary amount you consider to be a budget phone. The Lumia 920 was $100 last year when it came out. Are you saying you only want a phone under $100? I dont think I'm in the minority. And I'm pretty sure I have good sense. I do ample research before I purchase that $100 phone to ensure it last me the 18 months I have it for my needs. Getting a phone with no flash (520) or lacking a high res screen (625) would be extremely discouraging tk me, especially considering I would pay MORE for the 520 than the 920 in America due to me having to buy it unsubsidized.
  • You are paying more because you pay more each month on your contract.
    People on a real budget are on pay as you go or on T-Mobile. I bought my phones and went on new plans with T-Mobile. I pay 115 a month for three phones all with internet and two with tethering. I am using a Nokia 521.
  • ^^^This pretty much. I am not from America though. Vigor, you seem to mistake the terms "developed country" with "America" sadly. Which are you referring to? Your original comment was about "Developed Countries" vs "Developing countries"...but now you are talking about government policy of the states as if that applies to all of us in developed countries.
     
    Anyways, as jaceot pointed out, you also seem to forget that people on a real budget are not interested in or cannot afford a contract phone. This is mainly the market the budget phones such as the 520 and the new 625 are aimed at. Obviously..or no one would own them.
  • I dont know what's up for debate here really. I just said that I think the features they're putting off are just as important if not more than trying to focus on all the low end phones. I think people are missing my point, which I just stated above. And instead trying to educate me about markets where low end phones are worthwhile lol. They're preaching to the choir here. I'm simply stating I think fixing the "other storage" issue and fixing xbox music outweighs the rest
  • And a major country where the 625 might be successfull, like Brazil, we still don't have a Facebook app in portuguese!
  • I love this site, and check my WPC app many times a day, but I'm really wishing there were a higher editing standard for the articles being pushed out. This one in particular seems as if it wasn't even proof read before being posted. Also, I would appreciate more criticism on the part of WPC's staff. It seems like everytime Joe B. takes to twitter or a user site the WPC staff follows up with a "Well MS just put us in check for asking too much, and rightly so" article. I love WP8, but I want balanced reporting on the topic. And if we think that not having things like a notification center isn't keeping consumers from adopting the WP platform then we are plainly mistaken.
  • Dan, you're up!
  • I'd actually be honored to have Dan read me for tech trash haha.
  • I can actually agree with that somewhat, I've noticed there isn't enough criticism on Microsoft here, but hey, these guys don't want to end up on someone's bad side.
  • Valid point
  • I think there's enough criticism. There's that one writer who always gets up Microsoft's ass when we don't have an Xbox game per week lol
  • Nee naw nee naw. The grammar police have arrived!
  • Grammar police in general forums are one thing, but this is a tech news site. Lack of editing doesn't help garner credibility.
  • I see typos and grammer boo boos in newspapers, on the BBC news website and all sorts. Does this mean they are any less reliable with my news? No. Does this prove that such things are still written by humans and not some world dominating robot? Yes. On your second point, I don't really know what you're expecting. I think the level of critisism is just right for what this is. At the end of the day, you're on a site called Windows Phone Central...so right there, you know you will get a certain bias for Windows and their products. What? Do you expect them to make up more critisism for Windows where they have none...? There are plenty of tech sites out there which have an emphasis on non bias, journalistic reporting. This one as far as I can tell has no claim to be, nor would it suit the site's premise. If the writer wants to have a whine about WP, then they will more than likely do so...but such talk wouldn't sit well under the earlier obvious (and welcome) bias the site has.
  • I agree on all points adrock107, sir.
  • Criticism in news is shitty news. I disagree with you and enjoy their lack of criticism. You can get your fill of microsoft criticism from the verge. Or this websites comment section. With that said, Microsoft needs to step it up!
  • Maybe I should amend my use of "criticism" to "being more critical."
  • We need a "What Microsoft can do to save Windows phone 8" series of articles. Because not having CUSTOM SMS TONES!!!!!!!!!! is just plan ridiculous and silly on Microsoft part. THIS is the biggest oversight in WP8.
  • Considering that their advertisement campaign was on customization makes even more silly.
  • How is orientation lock and more sound/alert controls a "nerd" thing? Pretty much anyone who uses their phone as an alarm, and a LOT of non nerds do this, would want their alarm to be a different volume from their ringtone. Stop the BS excuses and start throwing out updates already.
  • Very much agreed
  • My alarm is always high no matter how low my volume is
  • This is exactly the issue, the most basic of features that are not available. I've pushed friends to adopt WP and they are not techies but complain about lack of basic features like volume controls, orientation lock and the simplest of things like being able to create and edit playlists in Xbox music. It's frustrating to see the potential in WP but just watch MS play catch up all the time.
  • Yep, they tout Xbox music but you cant create or edit playlists and how about attaching anything other than a picture directly to an email instead of having to share from Skydrive? When they havent provided basic features its a bit rich to say they are trying to grow the userbase but refuse to provide the basic features that userbase requires.
  • Definitely. Much of what's missing is functionality that was standard on most dumb phones 5 years ago. That's pretty inexcusable.
  • didn't they just add enterprise network support in GDR2? now compare that importance to sound/alert control, i would like both of the things you were asking for, but it's not like one line of code would fix it... i just hope these things come in Windows blue at the latest (GDR3 would be better)
  • There is no defending Microsoft. They are a multi BILLION dollar company. They pay THOUSANDS of engineers and developers to work on different parts of Windows Phone. How is it possible they can't do both at the same time? Jaxbot was a high school kid and managed to code an orientation lock app for Windows Phone 7. Yet Microsoft doesn't have the resources to do this with WP8 - 10 months after release? WTF?
  • AGREED
  • I've said it and I'll keep on saying it. MS is really dropping the ball because orientation lock was in the pre-release 7003 build of WP7. Which means it's coded and in a branch somewhere the hallows of MS's TFS.
  • +1
  • Yes, the priority should be in growing the user base. But how about throwing us existing users a bone with a volume control that can be set to "Silence all" at least? :)
  • That missed call tone when your phone is on silent...
  • Here's the problem with that explanation: There's a lot of stuff on uservoice that are *not* enthusiast features but rather features that would bring Windows Phone into basic parity with iOS and Android. I get that Microsoft needs to focus their efforts, but when you're THIS FAR BEHIND, maybe you need to learn how to multi-task.
     
    This is Microsoft, not some indie developer outfit. I refuse to believe they don't have the resources to make both things happen simultanously. And if they don't? That's a serious problem.
     
    FM Radio - SERIOUSLY? Is there a huge swath of unwashed masses out there with feature phones for which FM Radio is "Satisfying the needs of many."?
  • Yeah, especially since FM radio WAS in WP7. Couldn't have taken too much resources to do that one...
  • Fm radio is famous n widely used in India soooo ....you get my point right ...they are smart
  • I'd put fm radio on the category of features that are just embarrassing not to have. In developing countries, it's probably pretty important though. Also uses way less battery than streaming radio...
  • Dude, get over youself. There is a LOT of people who want FM radio support, Even to me, who uses streaming radio on a Unlimited data plan NEEDS his FM radio back so bad, I pull out my old Trophy to use to listen to FM radio.
    Reasons why I need a FM radio in my phone
    1. SPORTS, MLB charges $40 per year to stream games, when on FM radio is free
    2. Battery life is much better listening to FM radio than streaming a radio station the web.
    3. Local news for cases when power is lost.
    I find I use the FM radio a LOT during baseball or football season. I miss it from my old phone.
    Just becuase you could care less about a feature does not mean everyone else doesn't....
  • Um, yeah, ok. Just because you and presumably 45 other people want a feature doesn't mean it is a good use of time.
     
    http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/forums/101801-feature-suggestions/suggestions/3749945-please-add-fm-radio-to-windows-phone-8-
     
    Shall I list the hundreds of other feature parity items on user voice that have more votes?
     
  • Oh please every person in my country would go mad if they did not have fm radio - South Africa
  • Nokia has done more improvements than Microsoft. And its not even theirs to update.
    Less talk, more updates please.
  • To be fair, Microsoft does pay Nokia to do that...
  • Then they should just let them do the work completely, or better yet, let a team of hw makers involve in the control and development decisions.
  • They pay nokia to use their OS, not to improve it
  • Not really.. Vocal minority consists of people who get to choose which phone to buy for people around them. Those people change the idea of hundreds sometimes with a simple blog post. I have to say I can't really recommend WP for everyone because I know they will be back with questions like"Why can't I do this?" or let's say; "Why my phones' storage is full? I didn't install anything" People are not only bugged by the contents of updates, they are also bugged by the time it takes to getting them ready. So yeah.. Not really an answer to anything.
  • Thats what happened to me too, surely. I have made lots of my college friend to move to WP, and now they complaint many things: no updates, where is notif center, other storage issue, music files duplicating, ringtones and sounds control, and many more. I am still put some love to my 620, it's an awesome phone, but for people here, Microsoft needs (really needs) to push updates more frequently to these existing user which can solve the issues I've mentioned above.
  • They update WP8 just like their Xbox... Once a year.
  • I'm not saying they need to update every week, but there are important things that have been loudly requested for a long time, like other storage issue resolution, notification center, pc sync tool (they are pathetic on every platform), music player issue, browser "back" problem, closing apps from task manager, and quite a few others. These are all critical issues for a lot of people and get in the way of my enjoyment of the OS as well as hindering attempts to convert others to the platform. Here's hoping all will be solved by blue.
  • Agreed but blue is too far by that time they will lose a lot of customers...hope it comes in the grd3 update
  • Ok see here's my suggestion about the future tile display....you'll change the black/white background n set it to photos/bing images/other image source n keep the tiles translucent...
  • Give me my OS built in rotation lock and I will shut up.
  • There is no good excuse for not fixing the other storage issue by now.
  • They're taking way too long to implement simple features and that's really all there is to it.
  • Yup. 100% agreed.
  • +2
  • I fully admit I'm ignorant in saying this, but I still don't understand why they can't be working on growing the user base AND implementing new features at the same time. I understand a larger user base would help encourage more app growth, but wouldn't more OS features help attract more people to help grow that user base?
  • Agreed 1000%
  • I don't understand either. Resources are not a valid argument for MS to make - they have/had (prior to last Friday) $67 BILLION in cash reserves. I think most people would be able to figure out a way to add sufficient COMPETENT developers to the WP team to play catch up on features that are years old (volume control, notification centers, closing apps, etc, etc)...
  • Because Microsoft treats its own phone OS as an adopted child. Their priorities are with Windows, WP is just like a hobby for them or something.
  • FM radio was in WP7 and the Zunes before it. I don't see this as a new feature more like giving us something back.. But other than that, I'm happy with my 920.
  • [They didnt detail the bug fixes for GDR2 so i dont know if my opinion holds true or not]
    Lets forget new features.There are some bugs in WP that may frustrate a new buyer(need not to be WPCentral reading nerds). For example the multiple file display problem or say the other storage problem (Oh a simple reset fixes it right? First an "ordinary buyer" wont like to do that AND I put my 620 to reset and its rotating gears for an entire day and I've tried all possible solutions suggested on the web). Then there is the notification issues ,I personally dont need a notification center , a perfectly working push notification would suffice. Imagine an ordinary user not getting notifications every now and then? You and I will think "Ok we need to give Microsoft sometime to make its OS perfect" but an "ordinary user" wont think the same!
     
    And coming back to features, I disagree with Sam that the commonly requested features are required only by the nerds. Rather the opposite maybe, I guess most of us here wont need some silly custom ringtone control! But it does appeal to a lot of "ordinary users" who lay their hands on a WP device thinking "Hey i can do that even on my old feature phone!"
  • Every single WP owner I know (only counting 6, but still) wants to be able to adjust volume independently. That includes 3 that aren't technophiles at all. They just want to have, say Spotify or a game, play at low volume and still actually hear when someone calls at a later time, without having to remember to always adjust the volume back up. And I can't imagine that being so hard for a company like MS to implement. Atleast not so hard as to not being able to add it because they focus on Datasense and FM radio. And I can't even say I'm impressed with either.
    Get an independent volume system, make a notification centre and make notifications much much more reliable. I think that's what both the tech nerds and the general public wants.
    And none of these things are hard to implement on existing devices, so there's really no excuse.
  • My opinion on this is that ok you want to expand the user base (of course almost all companies main goal is to create as much demand as possible) however when you implement updates you need to be conscious of what your competitor offers as well. For example, probably the biggest complaints I see on a regular basis about windows phone are 3 things: a) inability to adjust volume for media playback vs notifications on the phone for incoming calls, texts emails b) lack of a notification center for unified notices from all sources c) cannot use custom tones for anything except ring tones. Both of the main competitors to WP provide these options and lets face it, many of the potential users of WP already own smart phones, these are things I see requested on a regular basis from WP users as well (many since the early days of WP7) shouldn't the goal of MS be to provide things like this to its user base which also non tech consumers expect given their prior experience with other eco systems? Obscure/specialized items I 100% agree would not be at the top of my list but the overall experience and options need to match or exceed competitors in areas like these to give people a reason to switch especially when the general public's perception of WP is that compared to google and apple the convenience apps are not as widely available. When you tell a customer hey yeah that app is not available but it does everything else x y z great you soften the blow more than you do saying yeah that app is not available and x and y and z are also not available. At that point the customer either walks away or purchases the competitions phone hardware.
  • microsoft probably doesnt know how to write the code for custom ringtones on text messages just like the lack to be able to save and send gifs via text
  • The hardware of the Lumia did get me to buy a windows phone but its the interface that make me stay. Doesn't make sense to group me into a minority just cuase I want a premium interface. This IS what attracts customers and the only part of the ecosystem Microsoft has control of.
  • My thoughts the same.The OS has grown on me, couldn't be happier the it is.Of course I wouldn't mind extra features in the future or more frequent updates, but at the end of the day, it's a very powerful OS with loads of usability and simplifies my daily routine very effectively.I've come to the point where I can say NOW I REALLY USE MY SMARTPHONE as for what they were invented.
    Gimmicks vs Usability...I'll choose the second.
    a happy WP8 user, cheers
  • +925
  • At least they don't constantly steal technologies from Apple like Scroogle and their Korean collaborators do.
  • If they do, will they win more non-diehard users ? The users that are not brand loyal and just choose whatever works best for them, or devices that offer whatever features they wanted.
    The average consumers don't seem to care who did it first. They want to know who have the best deal for all the wanted features. So whoever have the fastest and most efficient copying machine get the advantage.
  • I don't know about getting off our "high horse". I just want features to work properly and to have features that were mentioned at the release of Windows Phone 8.
    I don't think that's too much to ask.
  • Basically they just told us: shut up and wait. Ok.
  • +100, there it is
  • I hardly think having custom notification tones (top requested feature for ages) is an 'enthusiast' request. Whilst I get Joe Belfiore's point I'd also point out that some current WP users will end up switching away if these basic features are never implemented, which won't do much for market share.
  • Well fair enough but we are not talking here about me and my classmates trying to make a nice polshed app that could take ages! We are talking about Microsoft and Nokia! Do they really have to choose between this path or the other? They have all the resources on earth to keep bombing us with updates and features etc!
    When WP8 was announced Joe Belfiore himself said "we were planning notification center but run out of time"! Really? That was 10 monts ago and they still didn't find some time?!
    I would never say such basic features are "ideas that appeal to a vocal minority" when they are the reasons why the majority of "geeks" or anyway "tech aware" people consider WP8 to be...crap!
    Anyway balance is important and i think they could find balance between spreading and improving the platform
  • Agree and disagree. There's always going to be tension between growth and stability. However, ignoring putting all the eggs in the growth bastic before ensuring stability is a disaster waiting to happen.
    think what MS is missing right now is that the current user base and current feature set is likely going to have a significantly longer lasting impact on their ability to grow than they may be assuming. Take for example the movement of more and more companies to a BYOD program. My company has already once passed over WP 7/.5 and deemed it unfit for approval. They had also passed Android at the time and approved only iOS. Now they are back to re-evaluatiing Android because there has been consistent demand from employees AND because of Android improvements to make it all secure. So guess what, the fact that MS is taking their sweet time to get enterprise level features done (like EAP-TLS support, Citrix (coming), etc) they're once again at least a year out to be a valid option for BYOD. Incidentally lack of EAP-TLS (which is qutie high up on the list of demanded features) is a major hurdle for college students as most academic networks require this protocol.
    Secondly, who better to evangelize for the product than HAPPY CURRENT users? I'm getting pretty tired of telling people how it will be truly on par with the competition once such and such app is available because devs will come, or once a notification center is built, or 100 other things are done. I love my 928, but MS has got to get its shit together and get a complete grasp of the market and from which angle they have the best shot of driving demand, and which markets they're just going to get boxed out of (BYOD may be at risk).
  • I understand priorities, but i just have the sense that they don't have enough developers. Fm radio was in wp7. Why can't sd be used for downloads and temp storage? It's NT in there, surely that's just an environment variable change?
  • I actually agree with their thoughts....I feel MS has built a wonderful OS for phone, tablet and PC....they have to start somewhere with the direction they are on now....so what they are only now getting into the phone and tablet market...the fact is they are....and rather then throw a bunch of updates at the few who are squeeking...and then if there's a bug they will then just find another reason to whine....I admire Microsoft for the job they are doing and look forward to many years of using their OS on my phone... future tablet...and as always my computers....I currently have an android tablet and while nice....I'm much nor thrilled with the idea of having all my gadgets melding seemlessly together...and I believe they will.
  • Only now getting into the phone and tablet market? You may want to research that.
  • but what guarantess every wp8 phone will get theses updates. Alot was promised for wp7 and most people like me only got 7720 and that was the end for them. They need to gurantee what updates we will received because they can have updates released every month but whats the point of them releasing updates when a handful of people will received those updates
  • I think the real question is- what's the bottleneck? Why can't they do both? Not enough software engineers? Not enough good software engineers? Some fundamental problem with the os? Sounds to me like Joe hasn't managed his resources well - there are lots of features that should have been baked in a year ago.
  • But that is no different then android....they put out the updates....unless you are on stock android you may or may not get the updates.....
  • Android gets tons of updates. Similar to Windows on the desktop. There are small patches that might fix a part of the OS. 
    Actually, similar to how Nokia keep patching up the parts they can. If MS patched their OS as much as Nokia did, I bet we would be sitting much better. 
    MS is really f-ing themselves over. 
  • The problem has to be resource allocation, there just aren't enough developers assigned to the project.  If you take just one tiny, stupid thing like the horrible calendar month view... that code can't have any significant low-level dependancies against fluctuating APIs or core phone code changes, MS just doesn't have someone to assign to the task of removing the greeking, putting in the real calendar event, and making something that pans and zooms.  It's like a one month project for a high school student.   MS is clearly drowing, by their own spokeperson's statement it's apparently a struggle for them to even keep up with the code changes needed to support the natural evolution of handset hardware, much less provide any sigificant improvement to the OS beyond "now uses NT kernal" which really doesn't mean anything useful to the end user.
  • The calendar greeking really beggars belief. I can't speak to how long it'd take a developer to sort, but for the company that's been making outlook for a decade, it ought to be a massive embarrassment.
  • "kernel"
  • "Drowning", "significant".  Probably a half dozen other typos, too.
  • Resource limitations are likely...MS has to compete with a growing number of much "sexier" companies for devs to work at. It almost seems like they should have skipped WP7 and 7.5 given that those were always going to be dead ends from a hardware and kernel perspective and instead focused on releasing WP8 in conjunction with W8. One could argue that given the lack of traction with WP7, they've actually somewhat damaged the brand, and it's not getting any better since W8 itself has had a lukewarm reception in both the geek and non geek markets. The sheep would think something like: "I hear W8 is blah, therefore WP8 must also be blah, and especially so since I heard they've had it for a few years now but I've never seen anyone with a WP."
  • Sounds like he's more interested in getting new customers than keeping the old ones
  • GDR 2 so good for 1% of WP8 users...
  • +1
  • Once the phone has been sold, their money has been made. Next!
  • New customers will be the future old ones. So, they better take our suggestions seriously or WP future will be uncertain.
  • I heard this story once -.- let's believe!
  • Gdr2 should've brought what gdr3 will bring, and gdr3 should've been windows phone blue. In that order.. Cause right now it seems like they're a step behind. The Lumia 1020 should've had a 1080p screen and a quad core processor. Just my opinion.
  • Unnecessary. Completely unnecessary. 1080p would have been nice yeah but there is absolutely nothing wrong with 720p. And Windows Phone doesn't need quad core processors, it's fast enough as is.
  • I can't think of one reason why 1080p and quad core wouldn't have benefited the L1020.. vivider picture previews, and quicker photo processing. It would only have made the phone better and more appealing. no harm in that. and we would've had WP blue before the end of the year. Sounds perfect to me.
  • If you can't think of one reason why, then why suggest 1080p and quad core??
  • huh?
     
  • Learn to read.
    -10,000 internets for you.
  • Unless the point is to make it all 1080p/quad core compliant so they can then roll out the next line of devices that will actually be compatible with it. Lo and behold, you gotta buy another new phone in order to get the latest OS update!
  • They (MS) always listen, but take along time to understand or action.
  • What ever happened to enthusiast like us to be able to "pull" updates directly instead of waiting on a push?
  • Past few months? Try since NoDo. They got a brief reprieve with Mango but ONLY because they released the Mango Beta rom, so it felt like things were moving. Then the wheels fell off again.
     
    This could all be solved with that mythical vaporware-esque enthusiast program.
  • Not really. The development pace is so slow that there isn't anything to update to, regardless. GDR2 is a non-update, really. So I get FM radio back and maybe have one of the four bugs/problems I've personally encountered in Xbox Music fixed? That's it. GDR3 and 8.1 are as much vaporware as anything else at this point. I'm sure they'll come in due time, but I wouldn't hold my breath for GDR3 showing up on phones before November between Microsoft's slow-as-molasses iteration pace and the carriers dragging their feet on anything that Microsoft actually manages to churn out in a given year.
  • Im standing by what I said earlier I'll give windows phone till the blue update to get it together if not then im moving on
  • Same here brotha
  • Me too. Then I'm moving to blackberry because windows phone gave up on qwerty.
  • How can you say windows phone gave up on qwerty? it's software, not an entity. This has nothing to do with Microsoft (or even this article!)
    It's down to the hardware manufactuers to make a qwerty device but the fact is the marketshare is tiny. That's why there are no high end android qwerty devices and the iphone is touch. Deal with it.
  • We need customizable alerts for different apps and alerts. One sound for all alerts is really annoying. I second the triple toggle for silence,ringer,vibrate also.
  • Since new devices come out regularly, Belfiore's response doesn't inspire much confidence. 
  • I love my windows phone, its lag free (Except for occasional crashes/restarts) and it satisfies all my telephony, social networking and productivity needs. How ever for the prospective users in the emerging markets to start loving this ecosystem there needs to be simply more apps/features compared to their Android counterparts. Nokia and other Windows Phone OEMs are doing an amazing job packaging the devices well with their premium build quality and thanks to windows offering the basics very well. But, even in the emerging and leading markets alike people tend to opt for devices with more features and apps in the same price point. So its apps = more phone sales, more phone sales = more apps. Nokia 520/625 is an amazing package for countries like India, China, brazil which is a huge market and will help grow the windows eco system enabling developers to build more apps. In place like India for example every average Mobile phone user has a debit card and I love Window Phone's ability to purchase apps using debit card, which was lacking in Android that I was using before. Nokia's stratergy of selling budget devices would help welcome more users in the Windows ecosystem and inturn more app purchases and more developers bulding apps for the windows phone. 
  • They should double down, honestly. A company like MS has the resources. Get the broad audience, but at the same time you GOTTA get the techheads happy, because that is what makes good headlines and builds brand awareness to compete with the likes of Apple and Samsung. Nobody will buy the cheap windows phones if nobody hears the headlines about how the WP offerings are as good or better then the other two. They both build each other, so it makes sense you gotta concentrate on BOTH!
  • ^^THIS!^^ Tech blogs, news agencies, etc. will not promote something lackluster up against iPhone and Android's latest and greatest. Hardware specs are great (and yes, they celebrated Nokia's amazing cameras that happen to have WP8 built in), but you need the OS to BEAT the competition. How can it beat them if it doesn't DO some of the basic things they can?
  • Yes, this guy gets it.
  • We need to see at least 1 major fix/feature added to each and every update no matter how small it is. For example: GDR2 - minor fixes & NOTIFICATION CENTER GDR3 - minor fixes & REVAMP XBOX MUSIC I would be satisfied if at least I knew that is what they were doing.
  • They should just suck it up and double down. Honestly this is the lamest excuse. Yeah yeah, broaden the devices bla bla bla. What for? Nokia can release 100 different Lumias. If consumers pick up one, start to play with it and find so many BASIC stuff lacking from the OS, they'll just return it, resell it or then go back to Android/iOS the next time they buy a phone.
    Joe was trying to justify Microsoft's laziness. There's no justification. WP is still far behind Android and iOS to give itself to the luxury of releasing 3 updates a year, 2 of which are pathetic updates with very very few improvements. They want to grow? Great. But you can only do that by attending to the needs of the existing consumers. They should remember that the consumers of today were the prospect consumers of yesterday. And word of mouth is a big thing in the smartphone industry.
    The original poster is right: there's NO EXCUSE as to why hasn't Microsoft implemented through an update the very basic features that are in the most voted sections of UserVoice.
  • MS must do better, that's the simple truth. 3 years after WP7 and no progress on basic features such as:
    1) screen orientation lock
    2) zune desktop client replacement
    3) notification center
    4) fixing Xbox music metadata
    5) messaging apps that don't suck
    6) other storage fix These are all entirely in MS control. There's just no excuse. I didn't list things like no Google chat integration since I'm sure Google is cockblocking that.
  • You pretty much sum up the major issues. How can this be "tech nerds" requests?
  • Considering how big MS is with hundreds of programmers, if not thousands, I do not sympathise with them at all! Its been nearly a year and no tremendous effort has been shown by MS geeks! I can understand the point where they want to increase the user base but that shouldn't be happening jeopardising other important parts of OS development.
  • These all sound just like complaints on an Apple forum. 
  • Apple is already at the top of the heap. WP is struggling to gain some footholds. Apple has the luxury to slack off and not implement new features any time soon, and they will be fine in 2nd place. WP needs to catch up on the basics.
  • Apple has notifications, orientation lock, different sounds for messages and emails, volume control, and the ability to manage music in iTunes. Oh, wait they don't have FM radio . Sorry, this does not sound like an Apple forum and these are legetimate concerns.
  • I just want stable live tiles, then we can talk about new features. 
  • if it wasn't for Nokia, GDR2 would have been pretty lame.
    1. FM Radio. It was already present on WP7.. they removed it and took them 1 year to re added?
    2. Datasense has been around since WP8 was released, so what the hell?
    Was it so hard to at least let me change the notification tone? How much would that take? 1hour of coding?
    I know i don't know shit of how coding an OS should be done, but as a customer i feel they take pretty much time for things that matters. I have a WP since 2010, 3 years has passed and still no notification center. Maybe some of you don't care but i do. How much time it took apple to stole it from android? a year? 2 years? it's been 3 since WP was first introduced and i'm still waiting. I'm not expecting gimmick features, just usefull ones. Like separete volume (app/phone), shorcuts for enabling wifi/bluetooth/radio, notification center, probably what most USERS (current or new) want, since it is on the top of the uservoice list.
    I hope blue update brings usefull features or i might end moving away. If i haven't done yet is mearly because of Nokia. Nor Apple or Android have something similar to here drive.
  • Changing alert/sms tones had been around on phones for over a decade. It's not like its nuclear science. Yet they failed to put that into WP...just lazy lazy.
    (Or arrogant arrogant if they didn't do it because they decided we didn't needed it...)
    As much as I love Nokia, if MS doesn't get their act straight, I'm leaving for iOS (and I hate Apple). They have until January 2015 to convince me that they take WP seriously and not as a whim .
  • I rather use Android, Blackberry or even a dumbphone than buying an iphone.
  • The fact of the matter is that until Microsoft gets Windows Phone updates implemented and distributed, the people using the phones today will have a hard time recommending the phones to their friends. I personally tell people that I love my phone, but if they want to play the latest games with their friends, like Words With Friends or the newest Angry Birds, or more obscure apps from your local companies and banks, you're better off with an iPhone. But that's talking about apps, which is a situation that has been improving somewhat, and won't really get to an ideal state unless the market share hits critical mass. (I'd guess 20-25% would be enough to put pressure on most companies that offer apps to invest in their Windows Phone user base.) To grow to that mass, surprise and delight your existing users and remove the "excuses" for not buying a Windows Phone. They are listed and voted upon in User Voice. Implement them sooner than later. Set realistic release dates and announce them and hit those dates. Let me be able to say with completely honesty "if you just wait until September, you'll get those three features you feel you must have."
  • Absolutely true..i love the last line dude.. :)
  • That makes no sense? Loyalty is the most important factor in growing your audience and Microsoft has done a terrible job. Skype doesn't work, no universal search, no real time Microsoft exchange...all Microsoft products. The only reason I still have a WP it's because of Nokia and how freaking awesome their devices are. Without Nokia there is no such a thing as windows phones
  • Amen brother..!!!
    -proud owner of a Lumia 920
  • +2
  • I was with you until I grabbed a 920 myself, the deivce's specs is freakin' AWESOME, but the built quality sucks, the battery sucks, its overheating is annoying, and on top of that nokia care didnt do anything for me, saying that nokia is not allowing them to replce! -.^
  • you should check some of your apps because some apps will make your phone hot, it happened to me and killed my lives tiles until I found which one and uninstalled it.
  • The overheating is apps and WP8. One of the many issues that doesn't exist on iOS. I've NEVER had my iPhone locked and in my pocket with some crazy app kicking the CPU into high gear. 
    MS likes ot blame app developers on their fourms, yet I know that iOS app developers are not perfect by a long shot. To me, the blame lies in MS for not having catches in their OS to prevent something like this happening. 
    Worse, I've rebooted by 920 to only have the pocket heater function kick on without any apps running in the background. *sigh*
     
  • I'm not quite satisfied with that answer by joe, while I understand, they should not just concentrate on broadening, but also in keeping their current customers fresh... What's the number of devs working on WP.., like 5.? You can enlarge a donut all you want, but can be smaller in actuality by simply making the hole in the middle bigger. MS should concentrate on being solid rather than just solely expansion. Or else a donut effect might happen, I'm not gonna leave WP though, I'm going to wait 2 years long before deciding. Been on iPhone and on Android, I know what I'm missing, I know what I have.
  • +810 user ;)
  • Agreed
  • YES, AGREE JOE, BUT, ITS THE GREAT DUTY OF MS AND NK TO BE AT TABLE & SERV US EARLY AS POSSIBLE. MY LUMIA 820 HAVE STORAGE PROBLEM. NOT ABLE TO INSTALL APPS ON SD CARD IS VERY BIG PROBLEM.
  • I love windows phone.  I have no issues with my current phone.  But, they have to be ahead in the market.  1080P, HDMI should come to WP8.  Why didnt they take windows RT and port it to WP 8?  Sharing to devices is beautiful on windows 8 but nothing like that exists on WP.  I hope WP 9 will be a flavor of Windows 9 RT.  They are good things on RT that need to go to windows phone.  There are good things on WP that need to go to RT.
  • These excuses are getting old from Microsoft.KIN,DVP,920,Ativ S,these are the phones I've used over the years never have used Android or IOS,but lack of basic features and updates are driving me away.Android is looking better by the day.Im giving Microsoft until early next year and if I don't see major improvements im gone.
  • Same here. Android is looking better everyday.
  • +1 - MS has 9 months to convince me to stay.
  • I hate to say it, but I agree.
  • Htc One anyone? :P
  • The Moto X is looking sweet.
  • Hear, hear. Had 900, now 920. Love Nokia, but find Microsoft's attitude contemptible. But I'm pretty sure Elop will go pretty soon if Softy keeps dragging its feet into fall. 3rd qtr is the end. Shit or get off.
  • Whoever started this thread (or whatever you call it) on UserVoice is extremely impatient. As much as Microsoft has been quiet about OS updates and not much has come around for a while, you gotta realize it takes time to do things like this. It's still a new ecosystem and implementing the dozens of huge features people are asking for is gonna take quite a bit of time. As much as I missed FM radio and I would like to see Microsoft catch up with the rest of the world (which they have done already, IMO) I'm not gonna start bashing the developers that are working their asses off to give us what we "need" because it's not going as fast as I'd want. It really isn't the end of the world.
  • Not the end of the world, but maybe the end of this platform if they don't get it in gear. There are basic features that are missing and there is no reason for some of these issues not to have been updated or fixed. I'm thinking about switching because after reading this it is obvious that they don't care for the people who are currently using the system; instead, they want to grow it and then worry about the problems. Bad idea MS. Bad idea. 
  • As much as anyone I would like the platform to succeed but patience is wearing thin.
    I started on WM5.5, 6.0, 6.5 though multiple HTC devices (6700,Mogul,TP1).     Loved it.
    Watched Apple release an iPhone (June 2007) that had 1/3 of the functionality of WM 6.0, yet they got the accolates.  MSFT did nothing.
    Watched Android get released in general (fall 2009) and MSFT did nothing.
    Moved to Windows Phone 7 upon release in November 2010.   WP7 had about 1/2 the features of WM 6.5.  
    Moved to Windows Phone 8 upon release in November 2012.   WP8 still has about 3/4 of the features of WM 6.5.
    I have a Lumia 920.  I cannot attach anything other than pictures to email.   I cannot edit spreadsheets with a stylus, remote desktop into my servers, sync music/contacts/tasks/emails with Outlook 2013 (OTA sync is pretty decent though).   XBOX Music is horrible on both the phone and my laptop running Windows 8.1.
    So for those saying "Wait for the next release", I have in my pocket a phone that can do about 3/4 of the things that I could do 6 years ago.    Sure, the camera and screen is better but I cannot honestly say it's a better device overall.   And for that, I thank Apple, and yet MSFT still haven't done much to take back the market they once owned, and could have been the total kings over. 
     
     
  • As I read through the comments its surprising what people ask of Microsoft but some of it does make sense. Just keep in mind there is no such thing as a perfect platform. Sure there are certain thing about WP that "grinds my gears" lol but I am sure iOS users and Android users have problems of their own.
    I think Microsoft needs to find a balance between them and the consumer and find the right "speed" for releasing updates. Releasing updates too fast can be just as bad as releasing them too slow.
    Also, in the comment he made he is hinting solutions in the long run (which I am all for) but we live in a society where we want everything and we want it now. I'm confident Microsoft will continue delivering a solid product and polishing their current products as well. Its really a matter of patience.
  • tried wp8, tried android, tried black berry, tried symbian, tried java...tried ios....please these are some of the basic features we are asking, if not better remove the tag of SMARTPHONE from your cellphones...beacuse wp8 system are dummest of all of what i have used...wp released october 2010 please dont you think that 3years are enough to implement some of the basic features, please if you cant implement and learn anything in 3years sorry man...nothing can happen to wp systems..
  • Hello Sam,
    thanks for this article.
    A very direct thrust, so it must be. We have paid for the equipment yesterday and today. We love our MS operating systems. Bad enough that the customers have to go so strict approach to MS and have to demand innovation.   Only with innovations and features on the amount of time can also MS in a mobile operating system but earn good money with millions of customers. Why with a large sum of money from a lot of small many consumers to do so hard for MS?   There is only your WPCentral community that is so strong in the subject.   Thanks again from germany
  • Vocal minority are the ones who preach and get new converts.  We listen to folks and ask for new features so we can get converts.
  • True
  • I'm going to give my rant that I've given a million times before.
     
    They need to blow thorugh the list of requested features and address a ton of the very small ones that are very easy to do.  There is no reason in hell that they can't add something like orientation lock in about 2 hours of coding.  It is the easiest thing in the world, and there are a LOT of people that not only want it, but reinforce their opinion that the platform is very immature when they see that it does not exist.
     
    New features are great, but there are a lot of annoyances that people that evaluate WP coming from Android or iOS notice.  It's been three freaking years.  Where is the damn orientation lock?  This is not somehting that would hold up 1080P displays, or whatever.  Do they have more than one developer?  If not, maybe they need to look into hiring someone to try and get some of these things done, because the current rate of progress is glacial.  Nokia can only save your asses so much.
     
    This is one of the problems with the User Voice system they have setup... there is no grading of each request as to complexity.  There are bazillions of requests that may not be demanded by the most users, but would be very easy to implement and would give the appearance of making a lot of progress and stabilizing and maturing the os.  But MS only looks at things at the top of the list, which are frequently larger requests (like notification center).  Then they constantly say "we don't have time for that now", and ignore all the other small things they could be doing.
     
    Another issue with User Voice is that nobody maintains it.  Tons of threads on the same subject get created and then the votes are split.  
     
    There are also bugs that affect opinion as well... for example one that bothers me is that the video app does not interpret the anamorphic flag on video files properly.  When they play, they are stretched and distorted.  This is the only platfoirm my anamorphically encoded video files won't play on.  The bug, which again should be very easy to resolve, has existed fro three years.  It's not an issue that affects 90% of the WP population, but it should be a matter of pride to make things work the way they're supposed to.  It just makes MS look damn sloppy and liek they don't give a shit.
     
    LOVE the OS, HATE the way they are managing it.  They need to get serious here.
  • Good points here. It also seems to me like they have some small crew of developers fixing things. They need to hire some more damn people. Or outsource work, damn slow American workers.
  • They have $67 Billion in cash reserves... I think a tiny portion of that could go a LONG way to finding competent developers or minds
  • Yeap,Microsoft is a multi billion dollar company, and they are running WP like a couple of high school kids coding in their garage.
  • Couple of high school kids can maintain Cyanogenmod builds and push out bug fixes at least every month. Even I fixed a few bugs in my Android tablet with absolutely zero knowledge of coding let alone the Android system itself. I'm not saying it's that easy but it's definitely not as hard as they make it sound like. Especially if you're getting paid for it and working in the biggest software company.
  • Read like a typical canned PR response. I love WP8 but MS has got to do something to keep the OS fresh. They need to be more nimble with updates. 
  • seriously custom notifications been asking for this since wp7.0
     
  • Microsoft don't really give a damn about WP... Not sure why! There are so many bugs in WP8 at present and so many little but important features missing 3+ years down the line, it's actually embarrassing to overly recommend them at present :( they need to start doing something or let an external company take over development. A good start would be sacking the majority of the lazy-ass devs, 3+ years for a notification center, "we couldn't launch one with wp8 because we were rushing"... You're not suitable to be in the job then. Deadlines exist in all jobs, put the extra effort in instead of using your iPhones all day!!
  • I genuinely love windows phone. But I can't help but think if it was a little more open, (android) or even the desktop is of windows 8. It would be much more accessible for people.
  • And theyre not listening, users are repeatedly asking for the same features over and over and they never come... Its like they want wp to have a sub-standard feature set against the competition!
  • I don't really get the complaint here. I understand some phones may not have gotten the updates - Microsoft did try to not have a Google crap fest - but Microsoft has had one big update every year, am I wrong? In fact, 7.8 was delayed to bring more features to their users. Apple gets one big update a year. So why should MS have more then that?
  • Because they need to hurry if they want to catch IOS or Android thats why!!
  • Because WP is nowhere near the maturity of the other two systems. It has a great potential but it's just not there yet.
  • Because it's Microsoft. They send out software patches every 10 minutes. :)
  • Because, that's why
  • What you're missing is that the updates that have been released have not addressed the very basic issues that people are requesting.  Just look through the things people have asked for here... orientation lock, custom tones, etc.  Look on User Voice.  MS is releasing updates, and if they included the things we want that would be great.  But they mainly address the needs of new hardware (as Joe stated) rather than increasing the usability, configurabilty, and reliability of the OS in general.
     
    Granted, half the things asked for on User Voice are crap.  Many things that are not needed for this platform.  But things like volume profiles are considered pretty essential.
  • What about adding documents to emails within a reply or an existing email string? Why can't we do this? Isn't that what MS was built around - documents? Excel, Word, Powerpoint - we have these programs but the only way to send these documents is either by a link (inefficient) or by starting a whole new email which in my opinion is extremely lazy programming.
  • Last time I heard the phrase double down I had a Palm Pre. Either way, MS should hire more people and push out updates one feature at a time every other month
  • I love my phone and WP8...but I don't stand behind any attempt to please the community by making statements. MS have to stop making excuses and start producing results...for myself in fine but they will lose steam and opportunity to escalate in their current approach.
  • This has me thinking of swithing for the first time. Sorry to the users who already use our platform, you just have to hope enough people sign up to make it worth our while to work on updates. What a crock. I would rather spend my money on a platform that cared about its CURRENT users and pushes out updates to improve their experience. 
  • I'm all for the feedback from MS (finally) but what doesn't make sense is pushing low-mid end devices globally but being slow on the Other Storage that critically renders these devices with low internal storage obsolete in 2-3 months use.
  • That's the only thing I want to hear from them. Why can't it be fixed? How can you call yourself a tester if you can't see such an obvious issue? Did they tested the phone without installing a simple photo editing app? It's unbelievable and unjustifiable no matter how you look at it.
  • AMEN
  • A basic app like WhatsApp doesnt work properly on wp8, a simple function like email forwarding is not available on this system, black berry enterprise ready and has been ready for years, has its file system open so that you can share your videos and files via 3rd Party apps, f**k microsoft you call it Enterprise ready, what about non  enterprise customer, to suffer, what about the people who have already bought your cell phones:
    common man u call it a smart phone and to share a file you need to switch to computer, to download anything jump back to computer, to forward an e mail jump back to computer, if everything requires a computer, why invest thousands of bugs and get a piece of shit...better buy a android/apple tab..
    I already have a lumia 520, what will i do with your 1024display, will that anyhow change my phone resolution size, no its not going to, so that means i made a mistake to buy wp8 phone, because finally you are going to tell me "I DONT CARE"..
     
  • What the heck are you on about? Maybe some English lessons would help you here
  • Ya why not thankyou..why don't you teach me English instead of giving me suggestions...if you dont dig the features of your cell phone deep, please dont bother to comment....
  • I still don't feel reassured...its Microsoft. They are taking its OS update approach to their phones. They built a solid product, how do you update that a vista version of WP8?
  • IDC , there's a project started in xda devs forum which aims to boot linux(android) into wp7 devices and if it's a succes I'm saying goodbye to WP, at least until the blue update comes out.
  • please send me the link of that post...pretty frustrated with wp8...
  • Sorry but I don't think it's going to be available for wp8, at least not soon, as wp7 is WinCE based ,while wp8 is NT system based. Anyway here's the link http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1483377
  • I just want the mess known as Xbox Music and Video fixed. And while there is an update coming, I'm not that optimistic. Zune was so easy. I'd plug in a 5000 song library and it knew what 4,965 of those songs were. I could fix the other few very quick and very easy with the Zune desktop and it would then have no problem with it. How can the exact same files be unrecognizable to Xbox music now? Even more baffling, is many of those songs that are synced on my phone, show up with no album art or artist pics, yet if I slide over it will tell me what songs are available from that artist on their marketplace. So you don't know what it is when I want my screen filled with something other than greyed out tiles and background, but you do know what it is if I'm buying something? Then the Video app...what a mess. Hey Microsoft! Want to know how it should work? Go look at Movie Premier. I add a movie file and the year and it finds the correct info to link the proper movie poster and info. Your app just throws crap everywhere. This should be easy to use and a joy.....NOT A CHORE. To keep all my media organized on the Zune was a snap (only thing missing was DVD covers/posters). There is no organize with these two Xbox apps. You put the files in, hope they know what they are, and if they don't...you're screwed. I cant code...but I know how these things should work. Unfortunately, you can code but have no clue how these things should work.
  • P.S. You don't fix this...and any new people you bring on are going to bolt first chance anyhow. Your big advantage was Zune did circles around iTunes. Now you give them/us this crap. Ten different apps that barely work and cant collectively do what ONE Zune app did. I'm not asking anymore, you fix this crap or I'm dont with the Surface, Phone, and PC I have. I dump then and start over where it isn't so damn hard to use your music and videos with your devices. For crying out loud, this is stone-age crap when it comes to electronic devices.
  • Microsoft needs to step up and can't afford to play as one one the big 3. Because its the big to that are leading...Microsoft is just a small third player. Yes they need to update more frequently just to stay sharp and competing. They aren't there yet, far from it to be exact. They even mid the most basic functions, like favorites list if I call someone and please don't come with "you can pin" BS. 1. My startscreen would be full with all my favorites and it would be a mess and 2 yes I can pin the person and not the number. A lot of people have more that one telephone. And its anoying to constantly search the different numbers.
    All the other lacking basic features are already mentioned in here so I won't even bother with that...
  • I don't think its helping, my friend turned down WP, not because it lacks most of the popular apps, but because there is no separate volume control, and you can't send videos via Bluetooth and a lot more OS limitations like, you cant send any files via email except photos and recorded videos and there is no notification centre and no file manager, and there's no WP with a quad core CPU or a full HD screen. Oh and there's the other storage issue too. They need to fix their shit first to start selling, no one likes a half broken phone.
  • I believe in Joe, when GDR2 comes out, people will be whining about why gdr3 isn't out the following month. 
     
  • Fix other storage, custom ringtones, notifications and Xbox duplicated songs issue then I'm all set. I like how WP works currently, I don't even care about new features, I just want bug fixes. If it was Nokia I would be confident that it will be fixed eventually but looking at Microsoft, they might just force me to buy their next big innovation.
  • I don't second what Joe said. He says Microsoft needs to balance between the existing users and the future users-"the ship jumpers" if you will. But unless the WP8 ship is worth jumping to, people wont jump. And the ones who are here would jump to another prettier ship for the lack of attention and love here. Make it as good as the rivals. I don't oppose creativity, but creativity should be such that it doesn't stuff up the basics-like the much talked about notification system. Microsoft is doing a wonderful job with WP8, but they are going very slow IMHO. You can't convince people to take up WP8 unless you give them similar features PLUS the creative part. Give them new, i am all for it, but don't devoid them of the old basic that they are used to. If you want to, give a better alternative as live tiles are nowhere close to a drop down notification center, though they are pretty and new. There are numerous such faults with WP8 IMHO, and i am a proud owner of a Lumia 920 still. That says that i believe WP8 has a tremendous amount of potential, just not the right speed.
  • Exactly.
  • +1020
  • Joe's response is a lame excuse for laziness!
    Many of the features suggested on the forum are taken for granted features on other platforms....like FM, there's no big deal in this feature! It should have been in the first version itself! The least Microsoft could have done was take a keen look at existing technology in NOKIA Symbian phones... Many of those simple and user friendly features are out of patent protection!
    If this is not laziness what else would you call this??
    If MS wants to widen base all it ha to do is to give all the features that users want now and may want in the future!
  • I completely agree with Microsoft wanting to grow the platform. So often I show what my phone can do to people and they had no idea what Windows phone can do. Making it more visible to both developers and consumers will lead to great benefit to everyone. As Steve Ballmer always says developers developers developers. Right now my phone does all I need and looks great doing it, additional features I can wait for since I'm behind what Microsoft is doing with Windows Phone
  • You must be the only one not experiencing issues with the "other storage" then. Good for you.
  • You sir are one of the few who feels this way. Ballmer doesn't seem to give a flying fuck about users' concerns, and pretty soon, we won't give a fuck about anything he has to say ever again.
  • Building a better ecosystem or platform is part of their marketing, vendor partnerships and more importantly showcases the great strengths of the platform in order to attract more OEM's. I am sure they can do both marketing and coding at the same time can't they??? After all that's what they expect from individual developers at Hackathon's.
  • First, the keyword is vocal. The minority can influence the majority on their purchasing decisions.
    Second, what the hell the development team is doing to "grow the ecosystem?" Aren't they supposed to develop for the OS? It's not like the most wanted features are too complex to build; they are pretty basic.
    And finally, Having windows phone under the windows division could mean one of the two. Either resources get spread too thin or windows phone would get as much priority as windows 8.
  • What about those who do not have access or never bother to go to this uservoice web site, He 9Joe) may think that we are the minority, based on the vote but what about those who doesn't care about voting but simply buys a phone based on what the features the smart phone has. 
  • It pains me to say it, but MS should "suck it up and double down", WP8, while IMHO the overall most exciting mobile OS right now, still lacks too much, let's call "simple" features, and has growing pains as well, and while a company like Apple had the time to leisurely correct their growins pains on iOS (and they had plenty, believe me) because there were basically building a new market from scratch, Microsoft simply does not have the luxury to wait 6+ months for an OS update, and even worse just bring FM Radio and 1 or 2 other features on that update.
  • LOL all this outrage over updates, I am cool with my L920 for now and I may be he last person on the planet who buys a phone for what it can do RIGHT NOW, TODAY......not buying it because I HOPE they update it. Besides I would rather them take their time and do it right, hell iOS been getting away with 1 update a year why the big push with MSF? I understand they playing catch up but this OS is still in its infancy and updates just dont bother me as much as the next consumer.
  • Sorry for buying a phone assuming the music would work. 
    I get you're basically trolling but you've made an idiotic comment
  • Now who sounds like an idiot? Im not the one crying over an update....gtfo
  • Ah, troll.  Now you're just acting like a two year old.
    Boring, stupid.  I'm someone who has over 100,000 twitter followers.  I have a podcast in the top ten of comedy on Itunes.  When I leave WP8, I'm going to burn it to the ground with my followers.
    So, don't be so shortsighted.  There are others out there like me.  The tipping point is close.
    But, troll on, tiny one.
  • Yea right if you had followers your stupid trolling ass wouldnt be worried about wtf I have to say, stfu and get your own damn life dont try to be me or live my life. if you dont like wp THERES THE DOOR asshat
  • Ha.  Jesus, are you 12?
  • This is exactly what I meant in other comments. From those 100k followers around 70 or 80k people would not try to see for themselves and would take your word for it. So those "vocal minority" can very well take your platform down. Hmm.. If only there was a way to treat those people specially.. Maybe you can call it "enthusiasts program". ;)
  • I have attempted to engage T Mobile, Microsoft and Nokia. No go. It's not surprising. Microsoft especially seems to have their head up their ass. I really don't like the iPhone but I'm pretty close to done with WP8. This post gave me no confidence. Belfiore basically saying "we can do one or the other" is idiotic. But I don't recommend the phone to people and have been openly discouraging others from buying them. And I was a huge fan of WP7 when it came out.
  • iOS gets plenty of updates in a year. I'm on iOS 6.1.4. It started from iOS 6.0 last October, which is less than a year ago. So get your facts right.
    Also, iOS right now is pretty feature complete with over 900k apps. Comparing iOS with Windows Phone is like comparing a new startup with a giant.
  • Microsoft needs to double-down and double-down again right now if they're truly serious about WP.  They must provide both industry-leading service to their existing customers and convert new customers.  Both have to happen--not just one or the other.  Being focused on just one thing means ignoring other things that may be changing in the marketplace.  Maybe it turns out that they aren't truly committed.  This apologist stuff simply doesn't play with consumers and it's thin, if not completely transparent with the tech press.  Nobody really cares why they can't deliver. The fact is, they simply aren't doing so in a manner that's maintaining a high degree of market positivity and relevance.  Get past the carrier mentality, that doesn't "permit" them to launch a product simultaneously across carriers in a market.  Others do it, so should MS.  The way they're executing now is reinforcing/enabling the bad behavior of the carriers and lack of true choice within the market.  Carrier exclusives are simply a way to hold customers hostage.  There is no need to continue to support that behavior except for pure greed.
     
    To make this work, Microsoft needs to go after the market--not just farming at the low-end or one-shot shiny halo-products, but everything in-between, too.  They're sort-of doing that, but in a disjointed and uncoordinated manner.  They have the capability in their approach to WP8 to go after all of the segments at the same time and on the same day.  And execution must come much, much faster. What they're lacking is committing personnel and resources to deliver.
     
    Microsoft isn't Apple or Google and they know that, but don't behave like it.  They shouldn't be focusing on one halo-product for one segment of the market at a time.  They should be having multiple releases of multiple products very rapidly.
     
    What good is their war chest if they aren't going to fight?  If not now, when?  If not WP, then what?  Surface? XBox One?  Reactionary turd-polishing?
     
    So what's the limiting factor in all of this?  Likely the carriers.  That whole model sucks.  Drop the subsidies, finance phones for those who can't affort a straight purchase, and compete on service quality.  Again, the whole market revolves around holding the customer hostage because they can't afford to move.  Comes back to making you re-think the whole "need" for a $700 phone and $100 monthly when you aren't even able to put money in the bank, huh?  I guess there's a need to bring some dignity to *not* owning a S4, One, iPhone or Lumia 1020 for a large portion of the world's populance.
  • iOS and Android updates are pretty scarce as well. But I'd argue that those operating systems are more robust than Windows Phone. This is not to mean that I think Windows Phone needs a whole lot more. But there are a few basic things that would help: rotation lock, notifications, separate volume controls and closing open apps with an explicit close button. I had an app lock up the other day with no way of closing short of restarting the phone. I know that some of that is on the horizon. However, I can't help but wonder why that stuff wasn't identified sooner, back in the WP7 era. Even if it wasn't released with the launch of WP8, I'm surprised it hasn't been in development all along and isn't already ready. Are we ever even going to get something as basic as rotation lock? And that's the second issue here, that it seems like we have to pick and choose. It seems that updates largely come one at a time instead. So you have to hope that your particular peeve is addressed in this go around. I'm not looking to abandon the platform. The positives of this OS far, far outweigh any issues. But still, I'd like to see stronger signs that there is real commitment here. Apple was able to get away with absurdities like missing copy and paste for so long because they were one of the few games in town. The market has changed since then. There are so many good options out there that switching platforms isn't a problem for most people.
  • His comments just push me further toward an iPhone.  At least Apple has it's shit together and can update the phones.  Other Storage is a huge problem for me and my 810 is so pointless for music I still carry an iPod - something I didn't have to do before wp8, which has now been out since Nov.  That's 8 months of serious problems, which is unacceptable.
  • I'm still stuck on enabling the Lumia 1020 on sprint
  • Is their an Editor position at WPCentral?
    "are frenemies" should be "our frenemies"
  • good. others storage fix is coming because they are lisening
  • Enthusiast Program?
  • This is their version of the "Enthusiast Program".  They've always relied on their partners to evangelize and MS provides "support" and the software.
     
    However, imagine what Joe Belfiore and his team could do if they were much larger and better coordinated.
  • imagine what the team could do if Joe Belfiore wasn't there making promises he cant keep.
  • Then it would just be someone else.
     
    Joe wouldn't have been there very long if that were the case.  If the team doesn't deliver, it's the whole team's fault and all of MS looks bad.  And they do. They've been pretty lackluster at getting things out the door and prodding their partners along.  They need to increase velocity, volume and quality across the board--do more faster and better.
  • To increase the ecosystem Microsoft NEED to complete missing and necessary features! Without that people won't switch in!
    Recently I suggest to friend yo buy a Lumia 920. He done and he is really enthusiasts about the SO but after few day he began to ask me about old problem such as save files outside apps or send it via mail!
  • This post didn't mention Portico - as far as user features for most people it did not add much.  But it added TDSCDMA support, so that allowed Nokia to launch on several large carriers in China.  Likewise, with GDR2, sure it adds FM radio and whatnot, but the main addition is that it supports NV-provisioned CDMA accounts so that they can launch into Sprint (as Joe mentioned).  The ability to launch phones into new markets is probably a higher priority for the platform than some nice-to-haves like gapless playback or whatever.
  • Nice strawman. Gapless playback is a "nice-to-have", but a functioning music player is a MUST have. Xbox Music works nice for streaming from the subscription service, but other than that it's a real PITA. How will that get new customers?
  • Are there a lot of CDMA markets besides the U.S.? I thought everyone else was GSM.
  • I don't think we should cut Microsoft a break at all. If they were a small startup company with limited resources then fair enough. But this is the largest software developer in the world. And we're not asking for them to be particularly innovative either, just to add features that have been on rival platforms for years (as well as Windows Mobile and Symbian).
    Joe seems like a nice guy, but his promises are often empty (it's been months since he promised the fix for the Other data bug and still no sign of it). Folks are still waiting for the WP7.8 update after all, and not all of those that do have it have received the fix for the live tile data drain.
    The only thing that keeps me with WP is Nokia at the moment. Microsoft seem to be more of a hindrance than an asset.
  • you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Nothing this guy says carries any weight with me. I've seen this guy get up on stage and blow smoke way too many times. Clearly a guy just towing the company line and not causing real disruption with the carriers which is what needs to happen. Microsoft needs a clause stating if the update is good and the carrier simply refuses to throw the switch, Microsoft throws it for them. That was supposed to be the case but clearly isn't true as carriers have blocked multiple updates.
  • i believe in patience and im not a programmer so i can say what should be on a phone and how long it should take. granted there are a lot of features missing but they are working on it, have some faith and patience if not there are other OS's to choose from. we cant but a gun to their heads and say hurry up regardless whether you belive or not the have resources thigns still take time. i could bet if they were to rush ppl will complain they shouldve taking their time, whether your a MS fan or not MS can never catch a break. they dont have this but when they do its too late, for me i can wait and also my phone isnt my life. if MS cant satisfy you with the features you need and cant provide them fast enough and your not willing to wait then there are other OS's to choose from. having patience i guess is something not everyone has and not willing to learn, i know some ppl will definately disagree with what i wrote here but thats just my look on things.
  • Wow. We already have your money, we want to make money with new customers on new devices.....
  • +1
  • If Microsoft would concentrate on perfecting what they have, the masses will come.  Apple is the benchmark when it comes to mobile OS for a reason and is why many have flocked to it.  It is the standard that all phone makers and developers are compared to.
    If word spreads that everything works as it should on Windows Phone, and the Live Tile style is new and exciting because it offers something else (Android and IOS just imitate each other), then the masses will come.
     
  • You can shit out as many updates as you want but it means nothing if the carriers won't release them.  I GUARANTEE when 1080P GDR3 devices hit later this year a MAJORITY of us will still be waiting on GDR2 updates.
  • The Major rollout for GDR2 was suppose to be this month.What happened?
  • Personally, im happy with wp8 and my lumia 920, by far the best phone I have ever owned, just lacking in the apps. Im happy with no update really! By apps btw, I mean the ones were my friends say "hey have you seen this app, its really good" and I have to keep saying no. Sure third party apps are good, but not always free, and people, unfortunately like free official apps!
  • I think the point is that it's not acceptable for a company with the resources of Microsoft to release one update a year with really insignificant changes. A lot of changes suggested would probably take MS developers little time to implement. Don't call Data sense and FM radio new features when Data Sense was announced with WP8 and then restricted to certain carriers and FM radio was on WP7 since the beginning. Even if those were new features, they would make a pretty pathetic annual update. They need updates like Mango. Impressive update with great execution.
  • What sir JOE is telling we will provide a medicine for piles when enough number of peoples will have piles, when piles ecosystem is big enough so that they can encash there solution..but the pain of piles is unbearable every morning just like every morning i take my 920 in my hand and afraid that any Sammy fanboy with gs3 or 4 will tell me that a particular feature is missing...and its painful to hear that e.g no mkv support... And MINORITY...we are minority...wp itself is a minority....7 months of purchase and never seen other wp user....and if Joe thinks that low cost range phone buyers really care what particular feature their phone has or not...you are wrong...its us who pay loads of money so we expect and we suggest....thats why nokia does not have a uservoice for asha series of phones.....and in third world countries ashas sold more than wp...and don't need to mention how Sammy is performing in such countries coz they have notifications properly in place in phone that is half the price of Lumia 520.... 10 years of nokia fanboyship...time to change the ship...ridiculous is that i even don't find a buyer for my 920...great hardware....wasted...loads of money...... wasted
  • Oh god it was so funny still laughing however its true that my Android or iOS friends & cousins keep asking oh do you have that feature ..?? Did you not get my WhatsApp message or Facebook message. Me: making lame excuses to save WP8's a**. Not anymore..!! Next Android or iOS.
  • My colleagues has much cheaper phones than mine and still i have less ease of access and functionality, Sammy user just pull down notification bar and toggle and we scroll multiple number of times than go settings than mobile network than on off....how innovative...
  • I know! :)
  • Only thing I'd like to see is a notification center.
  • Sounds like understandable reasons. But I also believe that, while a majority of the WP community want more features, most will be content with the small things that should be there. MSFT have been a stonewall when it comes to give any answers while many would be happy with...
    1. A fix/more understanding of other storage thingy.
    2. A tad more SD options
    3. Small stability fixes.
    4. Improved Xbox Music usability (fix bugs)
    5. Stabile notifications
    I believe that's the least we can ask. And stop making such large update packs. Release somthing now and then instead of this long wait you put us through every year. MSFT have improved as a company and therefore they won me over as a customer, but they can't stop with having just a good product. They need to speed up there updates and at least keep a bigger focus on smashing bugs.
    If we listen to the WP fans. There willing to change a phone several times until they get one that's working properly. In the end a lot will give up and live with the flaws this phones have. Do you think the normal, bigger audiences that MSFT is growing the system to, is that patient?
    You have great products MSFT but your killing your self with not fixing the small things. We can compare and say that there worse on Android, or this or that on iPhone, but are we really going to settle with "were not as bad as (insert product)? Why can't MSFT take charge, and lead? The potential is like many times before in MSFT products there. Can we at least get some of the stability back with Windows Phone 7.X plzzz?
  • Hmm, except for many people were happy with Zune, but in WP8, they broke it and decided to call it Xbox Music. Then there's the other bug and missing major functionality.
    Time is ticking and the major flaws are still present. It's like X car company making a supercar and a saloon but when all the customers complain that the CD and radio is broken, or that it's randomly leaking fuel for no reason, for 9 months and counting. X company says to those customers 'sorry, we cant fix this for any of our existing cars, as we're focusing on making our city/run about cars'. Completely irrelevant excuse.
  • Sorry, I hate to use this word in a public fourm but, there is no other word to fit it....
     
    BULLSHIT... I can't beleve anything that Joe Belfiore says any more. We have been told the world and got nothing in return.... Do we all remember the Windows Phone 8 first press release with Joe ?????
     
    Oh, Microsoft was going to release updates, not limited to carriers....Nope Oh, wait, early updates on the early adoptor program... oh wait...  Yep, carriers got GDR2 almost a month ago now... Where is it for everyone ? Waiting on carriers....AGAIN...
     
    Till we actally see something happen and not "yea, yea, its coming" crap, then we will see.  Just more Bullshit from Microsoft on this....You can talk the talk but, till you can walk the walk...it dont mean shit...
  • Orientation Lock .. when can we get that?
  • Yes, Microsoft listen to your Users or we leave you. It seams that Microsoft try to do things as difficult as they can. Look at AsP.Net it's so difficult that a number of users have left this platform. The same with Office 365 where they try to change users behavior instead of listening to what's important for the average user. You will die Microsoft, too focused on your own needs and not on your customer. Drop your team of university developers and focus on us.
  • Why's everyone feeling so entitled. Why would you buy a phone based on promise and not what it already does. You're just setting yourself for disappointment and you have no one to blame but yourselves.
  • Some of us bought the phones assuming it had these basic features, and when finding out it didn't we liked the overall feel of the OS enough to stay anyway.
  • Adding notification center \ other major features would definitely increase the sale rates! Many ppl who are looking for a new Phone, dont even consider a Windows Phone because of the lack of major features...
  • its okay to think about expanding the ecosystem, but i just think that is correct to think first at having a completely functional ecosystem and then to expand it, I mean that you even can't see the lack of a notification system, or the live tiles that won't update or the notifications that arrives after 30 minutes Microsoft should be ashamed about those things in a world where they're hoping to expand the OS in front of the android heavy domination and iOS clearly at least functional system
  • Now Sam, I completely understand their focus on expanding their base and while I am in total agreement, certain things like a notification center or even the other storage problem can't possibly help grow the base. I would argue they turn them away. The average person will get a cost effective phone and thus have less space on their phone and it will affect them more. And because they dont spend the time reasearching on websites like WPCentral they won't know if it will ever be fixed. And that could permanently turn them away from Windows Phone OS and they will word of mouth to their friends and a lot of times word of mouth is a powerful motivator in decisions cuz people dont wanna waste money when someone else has. Its like the HTC 8() they didn't support their windows phone at all, barely made updates and never created apps, and the apps they had wouldn't work on the phones they were designed to for months which causes people to distrust HTC (regardless of how they were doing finicailly which definitely affected their attention mostly into the One). But that is exactly what is happening with Windows Phone. Microsoft is spending a lot into advancing their base, but at least have the essentials down so if someone switches the greatest complaint is apps or something else and not, them not being able to use their phones due to no space. If your phone can acculate up to 4GB of other storage (me) thats ridiculous and while we fanatics can deal with it, the average user can't. I know Microsoft is hard at work but maybe these types of posts can make them work that much harder and push it out that much faster!
  • Ok, flame me for this. But I don't see what the big deal is? I still love my phone (8X) and really cant fault anything with it (other than limited storage). My smart phone / WM devices have been MobilPro 450 (WInCE1.0), HP iPaq H2750 (WM2003), HTC Imagio (WM6.5), HTC Thunderbolt (android) and now the 8X.
    Out of all my devices, the 8X is the one that I am most pleased with. I remember with the TB everyone complaining about getting an update, of anykind, from the released 2.2 to 2.3 and then nothing for almost 2 years. Yet no one seemed to complain as much as WP users are. There was some, but not nearly as much as for this.
    I don't miss the notificaiton center, or the seperate volume controls, and I am not so much dependent on apps since the stock OS seems to handle everything just fine. When I bought the phone, I didn't buy it thinking or hoping I would see update after update. I bought it because it worked better than anything I have ever had before. Smooth, quick, responsive, reliable, and brilliantly simple.
    MY belief is that you bought a piece of hardware, and the manufacturer isn't entitled to upgrade you for free. The OS that came with it is what came with it, if you want the newest version, then go buy it, they don't owe it to me. I can patiently wait for whatever freebie they are giving me, and am eager to see what that is. But do I feel I need it, nope.
    I fully understand where Joe is coming from, you can make the phone the latest and greatest, but only carried by one carrier or one manufacturer, OR you can make the phone available to everyone, and then make everyones the latest and greatest. Imagine if a car manufacturer only made one car, and made it the greatest without making it accessable for everyone, we would have the worlds greatest Model T that only a few folks would be driving around.
    Just my 76 cents.
  • Except that many of the major/top things on uservoice are bug fixes, or functionality that's been removed/broken. The car analogy is a good one, and I've already made it several posts up. If your fuel tank is emptying twice as quickly as it should, or your stereo isn't working properly, you'd expect it to be fixed. But apparently they are too busy making the next eco cars to do something like that.
  • We can't do anything if you do not use your phone to its full potential or you have bought lowest priced wp device.. Those who bought a cellphone priced same as a laptop are extreme users as current gen devices do much of work other than watching videos and playing wordament....
  • To get more people on the platform we also need to get the features that most people expect to get out of the box when coming from iOS or Android, that we do not already have
  • I get that they have priorities and a lot of requests for features and have to think about what makes sense for them and so on. BUT, not everyone in the WP team can be working on the features he mentioned. They have to have several teams responsible for different areas. There probably is a team, a sizable one, that's working on GDR3. But that doesn't mean that there can't be other teams that can work on customer suggestions. It doesn't take too much to make a user feel valued. If really every single person on their team is commited to one or two things at any given time, they need to restructure their way of development. Otherwise they're expanding their userbase on the one side while loosing them on the other.
    I feel that this is the Microsoft way. To dish out huge updates, service packs, whatever you want to call them. Unfortunately this behaviour is not only from a different platform, but from a different time. Today, a steady stream of smaller updates, bugfixes, contant patches is preferable. This system worked for them for years. Decades even and i get that changing is hard. But necessary.
    The stock calendar for example, is a joke. A team of interns could probably fix that. And that should not at all interfere with the development of the bigger updates. There are just so many people who can work on those.
  • Just wanted to point out that the vote count on that page has jumped 50 votes in the last 10 minutes
  • A lot of what the so called "vocal minority" is asking for are things that other OS'es have and even some dumbphones. Umm stopwatch/ timer for one. Ability to silence our phones. These aren't strange niche things for nerds, they're basic phone requirements. Don't even get me started on Other storage which is costing developers actual money.
  • One thing Microsoft should realize is that their current users ( you , me and probably anyone reading this post ) are giving Microsoft a "chance". We bought a WP8 phone and we are hoping for the best. Im a very patient person but lets face it, patience has a limit after all. Microsoft should focus on these minor updates in order to satisfy their current customers because these customers , just like life , aren't for granted. I can simply give up and go for the galaxy s4 tonight. But I wont leave Nokia or Microsoft despite the mean comments i get from my friends. To sum up , I need microsoft's devotion to update and reinvent WP8 and push themselves to the limit. Otherwise, WP will be no more , it will be a wide community with users who don't believe in their phones. And besides I don't think Microsoft is keeping the balance as stated by joe
  • No sympathy for Microsoft... They've been sitting on their windows 8 and Xbox throne and neglecting their phones... Hell if my phone worked with a lot of the toast notifications and had a notification center I'd get more accomplished for my job but no, that's not something they care about...
  • Listening and doing are two totally different things. They shouldn't have even launched devices with GDR2 on them before rolling it out to existing devices!!!!
  • I'm totally cool with everything they are doing. I liked Android and iOS, but to me they were missing the things I desired in a phone. I guess I see it opposite than most since switching over. Windows OS offers the things I want built in. Office, Skydrive, fluent UI, and etc. I use two devices at all times because of my occupation. Typically it was a Droid and Iphone. Since switching in November im very happy to say they are both WP's (928 & 8x). Next on the list is a Surface Pro and a custom built PC.
  • Yep the vocal minority wants space to install apps they buy. Silly nerds.
  • WP remind me of the tortoise and the hare race.  I see WP move at a speed of the tortoise with no sense of urgency like the hare.
  • Care to finish the tortoise and hare story?  :)
  • Personally I'd just like to see things like Whatsapp and Viber working properly. Why don't they? Is it something to do with Microsoft? Is it push notifications? Whatever it is I'm off if they have haven't sorted it by the next time I get a new phone.
    Oh & another thing, why is it we have the most up to date operating system, built from the ground up, and you can't even have a customised text alert.
     
  • It's NOT a vocal minority. If you look at feature votes, they are high feedback items. How can they convince ISVs and carriers to pay attention if they're alienating us? I still can't listen to my work voicemail, a feature that broke from WP7 to WP8. My non-restricted music gives me DRM errors frequently. There is no excuse for some of this.
  • But we're getting FM RADIO! that makes it all worth it! -no one ever
  • Yea, to me it's a big deal....and it's worth it for that....
     
    Get over yourself, a lot of people have been requesting this from WP8 release...
  • When is WP7.9 coming...??? LoL
  • This article shows, that MS has no idea what to do. Together with Nokia-slayer Mr. Elop. Why not to make aline of phones once a year? Example the lumia 620 just hit the stores a month or two ago. Now there is a 625 is coming. Noone will buy 620 from now on. The same for windows. If they dont fix the top 10 stuff they never will expand their ecosystem. And in top tens there are 10-30000 people. This is a lot. I think first thing is not to make people leave WP8. I plan to stay with my lumia 920 at least for the next 2 years. Before it i had an iphone for 2,5 years. I will never get Android. In worst scenario i will go back to apple. I dont feel the lack of apps, i dont play games, but i really miss some basic stuff from windows.
  • Please find a way to not restrict wp7.8 i need freedom on software installation
  • It is a fine line that they walk though. They have one really manufacturer behind them. The others are just players, The name of the game is getting the numbers into the system. The more people use it the more devices sold, It's not really the high end devices that is going to spread the word of WP. but rather the lower end devices, in return it actually benefits the high end long term. I can see what Joe and MS are doing here. However they still need to do OS Tune ups more briskly than what they are doing now presently.
  • Here is an example...NOKIA...is been doing more than Microsoft...for the OS..when you talking above windows phone..keep in mind Nokia.......another example....Nokia Lumia 1020,best camera ever....
  • I can understand the strategy of Microsoft, BUT they are just too slow with their updates and all the work with windows phone so they are holding down Nokia to do any reasonable progress.
    Microsoft seems to be the big problem for Nokia right now.
  • they have to move a little bit faster..all this waiting and promises can easily become a problem..as big of a company is microsoft they can do better than this..
  • last sentence in the second to last paragraph where it says "like those 1080p ones are frenemies over at Android Central get to play with." are should be our :)
  • I actually tried scrolling through this thread before I realized you, my fellow WP enthusiasts, have addressed what needs to be addressed. Thanks!
  • As soon as I read the title of the article I knew the comment section would be full of crying
  • "As soon as I read the title of the article I knew the comment section would be full of crying" I know Tom Hanks said that there was no crying in baseball, but I don't ever recall him mentioning anything about cell phones LOL
  • I really like windows os for the most part, it is smooth. I started with an LG quantum, then to Nokia 900, and now 920. I don't want to leave, but I'm afraid their lack of apps and how slow they're getting them will be their downfall. I pray things turn around soon, because most people r like, why get windows phone with less benefits, and i can't help but agree..o, and why all these phones with no expandable storage capabilities? HTC really flopped on that beautiful 8x, smh..
  • I'd rather have a phone with less benefits then a friend with no benefits
  • I can't wait for BLUE... @_@
  • Fool us once, shame on them. Fool us twice, shame on us.
  • Great!! Bring the rotation lock First!! Please :-(
  • I think if they had a little mascot and started naming their updates after pizza toppings, people might be happier. ...OH! I cant wait for the Pepperoni Update! ...WTF Man! I'm still waiting for Italian Sausage!
     
  • He makes it sound like it's some big tradeoff. Features and fixes for the few will also benefit the many. They will find it hard to get all these potential future customers he's talking about if they can't even keep their existing customers happy. Word of mouth is the most powerful advertisement (good and bad). A year of development for what, 4 features? Some can't be even called features (screen resolution compatibility? I can't use that on my current phone. It's like calling drivers features). So no, he didn't really make me feel any better.
  • I do prefer for MS to take the time and get the whole strategy of the whole ecosystem right. And by that I mean Windows 8, Windows RT, Windows Phone, XBOX and all the could services. Integrated them seamlessly, make it easy for developers as well as new and existing users, e.g. one app store and then start churning out updates that will enrich the whole ecosystem. I really hope that win 8.1 and wp 8.1 will be a huge leap towards this integration. In the mean time, use the brains over at Nokia for the mobile innovation...
  • Gdr2 is very very small update. And with such big team microsoft can do in one weak that update. But microsot become of too big too slow. Victim of own blindness
  • I'm actually willing to give windows phone and my lumia 920 up (since nokia care didnt want to replace it even though it had battery, heat, signal, screen issues) if they didnt implement simple and basic yet needed ideas like controlling volumes separately!
  • I totally disagree with Sam.  Quicker updates does not satisfy only tech nerds or the needs of the needs of the few.   What drives sales and adds customers are phone specs and apps, and WP8 lags in both.  Spec wars tend to be attributed to Android but I would say the the 65% market share and the million and millions of Galaxy S whatever out there tells me that specs do matter for many consumers, not just the nerds.   
    Microsoft was two or three years behind when they introduced WP and they should be working their asses off to achieve parity with IOS and Android.  And at their rate of updates they will never catchup with either platform.  For a software company that should be priortiy one.  I'm a fan of the WP but it drives me crazy that features, such as dual/quad core processors or 1080P screens, to name a few, comes to WP a year after Android.   Again, I understand that WP doesn't need some of these features to work well but when an average consumer is buying a new phone, features and specs matter.  
    And another thing, why does it take us consumers to tell Microsoft they need more features and updates?  To me when Joe says "we're listening" it's a way to detract from the fact they are way behind in features and specs.  IMO, there is still something wrong with Microsoft and it just can't keep up with the pace of the competition.
    Sorry for the rant, just passionate about WP
  • The average consumer is swayed by marketing and advertising more than a spec sheet. Branding is more important than anything I teach High School. Every year, I see oodles and oodles and oodles and oodles of kids walking around with iPhones & Galaxies. Know what they do with them? They Text, Play Games and Facebook. Most could care less about specs. They got the phone because their parents got them cheap on a family plan. Even most adult Galaxy or iPhone Owners I know could care less about specs. They bought the phone because of its branding. Most will never use the phones specs to their full advantage, but advertising tells them they need it anyway. Everyone I know who owns an iPhone is these days being constantly bombarded by how great The Galaxy's Specs are compared to iPhone. How great this or that phones specs are compared to iPhone. But you know what? Despite the hype and bs that the so called internet "tech experts" keep spewing, very, very, few of them have or will trade their iPhone for a Galaxy or anything else. The iPhone has something way more important then specs. Just like the original old Razrs had in their day.... They have a brand
  • I agree about marketing and brand awareness is huge but WP (Microsoft) does not have that luxury.  Their windows brand is not great to the ave consumer and is often associated with productivity and viruses.  Not sure if WP really has a brand at this point.  The iphone (Apple) is the master of branding and is why they get away with not have the best specs.   IMO, Microsoft made a big mistake by following Apple and closing their ecosystem for mobile. 
  • But at the end even their Facebook app is official works fine in messages and real time notifications which we just dream of.. Wow isn't that charming.. True that WP OS doesn't need much of Hardware Specs as its fluid but OS have so many limitations MAINLY THESE TWO:
    Storage issue of Others
    Only 12 Background Tasks (Why not all apps like Android or iOS..??)
  • 'We are listening' is not enough for one year of waiting... And we have to wait more...? What you promised one year before on wp8 itself haven't completed ... Data sense... Is one of that missing feature... Gdr2 update is a name sake update at least for non Lumia user .... Nokia is giving good initiation than Microsoft on windows phone.... I love WP... But this much wait for nothing... Feels bad
  • If they stick to this strategy it will be a long painful road ahead. They downplay having parity features with other platforms to focus on ecosystem growth but what they don't realize is that people will have NO incentive to switch, therefore slowing growth. Developers are another story in themselves, if they'd humble themselves a little and put more effort in what they get back it will eventually pay off. Otherwise they're just creating monopolies for mobile platforms.  Honestly development is way too slow and they need to stop acting like a small phone company. They need to take the top missing features and focus on implementing them right away. ANYWAY you beat around the bush this cannot be overlooked. This is single-handedly the worst turnoff for mobile buyers besides apps. CAPABILITIES CAPABILITIES CAPABILITIES!!!!! Then they should have a software QA department that focuses on quality updates and enticing new developers and app creators to bring what they own to WP. 
    Until then, it's like watching paint dry for me....
  • Till when will MSFT continue to test patience for those who showed loyalty in buying first generation Lumias on WP8. We feel cheated with hardly any new features, poor battery and high discharge rate of battery. Its like my phone is a wired phone with continuous use of charger. MSFT, I AM NOT HAPPY....
  • A. Since we bought the WP OS phone get us the services first than gathering crowd. Satisfy your customers first so that they may buy again. By the time many would've left the platform if they aren't served well for what they've paid.
    B. Lets see what GDR3 brings for us except for handful features like: 1080p screen which only new phones would be getting. Not us..!! Due to Hardware constraints. So that's something we're not counting here.
  • Agreed.  They must expand ecosystem in order for the platform to survive.  Enthusiasts alone aren't enough.  Consider the launch history of Facebook, etc, that started with exclusive communities and then later expanded by opening up to larger audiences. Consider other online communities/ businesses (tumblr) that offer a certain set of features for free to get a user base going and then began offering premium features for those that are a little more serious, etc.  As for how this impacts my decisions, I don't plan on leaving my current phone (920) until at least GDR3 is out.  It is a shame that 1020 isn't built with the resolution GDR3 will allow devices to leverage. :P
  • The #1 thing I want is something equivalent to iOS Do Not Disturb. After 10pm, I don't want my phone ringing or vibrating from emails or IMs unless I have DND turned off. I get tons of notifications from various systems and it's annoying as hell to have to always remember to turn them on and off all the time, especially since disabling email sounds but not the phone ringer requires setting the alert sound to "no sound" instead of just having a toggle switch. I can guarantee that not having this actually gets people in trouble at work. I'm sure i'm not the only one that's forgotten to turn the ringer/email sounds back on in the morning and missed a call or email I should have responded to immediately.
     
    Apple's implementation whereby someone can call you twice in a row to have it ring is not a bad one, but ideally you'd be able to individually silence IM/SMS/text/phone calls when in DND mode. You'd could have a toggle for each type of communication so that it could be left up to the individual user. It would be even better if these were tied to ring profiles.
     
    Ring Profiles.. BB has had them for what, 10 years? For those not familiar, in BB ring profiles, you can configure all the different ringer volumes (SMS, phone, email, etc) individually per profile, so that by simply changing the profile, you change all the settings at once. Why can't we get something similar in WP?
     
    These are both super easy to implement and would make a HUGE difference in reducing the level of annoyance that our phones cause us. I love my 920 but if there's one thing that would make me switch OS, it's this. If it's not in 8.1 (i've given up on gdr3 having it), my next phone may be android or ios which would be a real shame.
     
    I think they've wasted a lot of time on things like DataSense (that nobody even has access to) and Kid's Corner (a nice feature but should have been taken care of after the basics were implemented). And speaking of DataSense, WHAT IS SO COMPLICATED? Decouple the compression stuff from the rest of the feature and allow everyone to use it. Compression is the only aspect of it that should require participation from a carrier. The rest should be possible to implement w/o carrier support and it would still be very useful.  
  • I'm glad this comment section isn't simply full of "complaints" that a lot of people try to write off as being whiners. Rather it's a mixture of perfectly practical suggestions and demands of better communication. I truly hope someone at Microsoft reads some of this, because these aren't greedy requests and wishlists. It's people who state that they truly enjoy WP8, but can't hold out for the rumored "big update" indefinitely. Who's to say 8.1 even has half the basic features they're looking for? Microsoft needs to be the ones to step up and say, look this is exactly the stuff we're trying to add. Just be straight about it. That way you restore the consumer's faith in you.
  • I want the phones 'other' storage problem fixed.
    I want a seperate volume setting for ringtones and a continued audible notification for sms, voicemails and missed calls.
    I want a better percentage of phone connections to the PC to work, first time.
    I want the phone to have only one song listed for my music transfers, not two, not eight, one.
    I want a list of compatable SDHC memory cards.
    I want bluetooth hands free to work with any car.
    I want bluetooth file transfer with an explorer GUI.
    I want bluetooth contact and sms support.
    I want music metadata support for any music synced to the phone.
    Fix what you have now, then work on an FM radio.
  • In short never buying WP OS just bought it because of Nokia. And ppl i recommended to buy WP8 now they say My Facebook, Notifications, only 6-8 Background Tasks, Others storage(Even after Lumia Storage Check which is a relief btw), no apps, horrible Screen brightness, only 6 tabs in IE, 6 apps at a time, Creating Playlist is like building pyramid & hell number of countless issues and complaints. I'd rather buy iOS or maybe back to Android rather than buying a half baked OS with prominent apps like: Facebook, WhatsApp, Temple Run, Real Racing, Instagram, etc which are no less than a shame as they dont exist on Store and If they do they're lame enough to work or just too late and useless now... Had many expections from WP OS but leaving empty handed...
  • If all they did was push a update that let us see 7 clean rows on the main page, and added a black colo