As Windows Central exclusively revealed last week, Microsoft is working on a new Windows 10 SKU under the name "Windows 10 Cloud", but info on what it is were unclear. Now, a report from ZDNet has unveiled that Windows 10 Cloud is actually more like Windows RT, being a UWP-only SKU of Windows with the goal of tackling Chromebooks.
Windows Central can confirm that the Windows 10 Cloud SKU, for the most part will look and feel identical to any normal Windows 10 SKU. The only new thing that Windows 10 Cloud will bring to the table is the fact that it won't be able to run normal apps downloaded from the web, as everything will be routed through the Windows Store, similar to Windows RT.
This is Microsoft's attempt at tackling Chromebooks, and another chance at building a Windows RT that hopefully works. Chromebooks are a serious threat to Windows 10, especially in the low-end portion of the market. Windows 10 Cloud is a great solution for providing a cheap, low-end SKU for hardware makers to bundle on low-end devices, that isn't susceptible to viruses from malware downloaded from the web. Think Windows 8.1 with Bing, but with a Windows RT twist.
Although its name implies there'll be a 'cloud' element, the Windows 10 Cloud SKU actually doesn't focus on the cloud at all. It's basically a normal edition of Windows 10 without the ability to run programs outside the Windows Store. There will be cloud features coming to Windows 10 however, which are currently in the works under the name Cloud Shell. This codename was reported on by Petri last week, but the thinking then was that Cloud Shell and this new Cloud SKU were connected. My sources say this is not the case.
For those confused between Cloud Shell and CShell, don't worry. There's only 1 shell, and that's CShell. Cloud Shell isn't an actual 'shell'
— Zac Bowden (@zacbowden) 30 January 2017
Rather, Cloud Shell is a collection of cloud-related features coming to all Windows 10 variants in a future version of Windows 10. So in short, Cloud Shell isn't tied to Windows 10 Cloud, but will likely benefit from Cloud Shell, as will other SKUs, once those features are ready. We'll be talking more about Cloud Shell and what it is, and isn't in an upcoming article. In the meantime however, what are your thoughts on the Windows 10 Cloud SKU basically being Windows RT 2.0? Let us know below.
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Microsoft is taking on Chromebooks with Windows 10 'Cloud'
New hope for Lumia 2520 🤔
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Could be a good way to get some apps. Student apps at least. That wouldn't hurt. Maybe some small business apps too. Why not some medical clinic apps for tablets. Pretty soon you have an app store.
OK I am an actual high school teacher that has been blessed to have a classroom set of Chromebooks for 3 years now. They work great and I have never ran into any sort of limitations with them.
Google was doing cloud collaboration on docs before Word even thought of it. If I run into any sort of problem it is a two button reset and it clears up 99% of the issues. Boot time is less than 10 seconds, updates are in the background.
Windows can't beat that. At least they haven't shown they can. Maybe this will be better, but for enrolling, security, and ease of use Chromebooks are killing it.
Would someone be so kind and explain why they need RT 2.0, when full Windows on ARM is gonna be a thing?
If "Cloud Shell isn't an actual shell", why does it carry that name? So confusing.
So, why would this be a better option than a cheap laptop with Windows 10 Home?
Yes, Chromebooks will be able to run anything from Google Play and this Windows anything from Windows Store. A little problem here is the contents of the Windows Store though. Windows RT failed because of the lack of the apps.
Awesome, now they only need a Store :P
Why take on Chromebooks right now? Why not wait until Windows 10 on ARM? Microsoft and OEM's could flood the market with competively priced hardware and with emulation in place it won't feel like a "restricted" experience similar to Windows RT. I really hope they don't jump the gun on this....
But for education purposes, you want a restricted device.
My take: When can I have it. Do you remember all the Atom devices that came with only 1GB of RAM? While they run fine with a bit more patience, W10 Cloud should make them snappier. After all W10 Cloud is the PC version of the W10 Mobile shell -> lightweight.
It would actually be pretty cool if Microsoft would add an RT mode that switched like the "Game Mode" we've been reading about.
The reporting for this makes the assumption that UWP will only support the Microsoft Store. If this is true, that would be a complete departure from how UWP functions for all other SKUs including W10M. It is not a closed ecosystem. Any 3rd party can set up a store for UWP. In fact, that is critically important for MDM support and device provisioning packages. Why would they change that for one SKU? Further, Windows RT never went anywhere. One specific iteration that was locked down to ARM was deprecated but it lives on in the form of W10M. This extends that model to x86 but with the added benefit of being able to run Centennial. Naturally, it will run a shell that is adaptive to the form factor just like it does now. It will probably include new menu options that limit access to underlying subsystems just like W10M does.
I'll never buy Windows 10 cloud, its like a dumb terminal, there are no real apps for productivity on Windows 10 Store, so this is even worst than a Chromebook, at least a Chromebook can boot Ubuntu Linux with Crouton, this won't be able to install productivity education software like Scilab, RStudio, Eclipse, Gimp, FreeCAD, AviDemux, LMMS (yes this music editor works on Windows 10) etc.
Again, this will just be another dumb terminal that nobody will buy.
It's not for you.
Noooooo! That was the worst, huge mistake ever done! Its not time yet! We need and we want power PC's!
Fact, not fiction: Obvious business decision. Opinion: Brilliant. Future: IOT application; GUI interface w/installer for RPI or the like... Those who know, know. ;)
...Wherever you go, there you are.
Like a Boss!!!
Chromebooks are great in education because the kids can quickly and easily log into any device and have all their files available. Basically, no setup or IT department is required. Security also isn't an issue.
Will Windows be able to replicate all this? Will Microsoft be short sorted as usual?
Disagree, the advantage of Chromebooks for education is that students can learn how to write code on a Chromebook thanks to Android apps like termux which are a Ubuntu subsystem inside non rooted Android device, the students that don't learn how to code reagardless of their degree, will be left out in the AI era where automation will take the jobs of those that only do repetitive tasks that can be automated.
Chromebooks aren't used for those functions. Schools aren't installing Linux to teach coding. If a school has a coding class, they will have Macs or PCs available.
Chromebooks are used in everyday classes for creating documents, writing essays, finding references, etc. They make it easy for students to have access to their documents anywhere they are, including their home computer or phone, and they make it easy to share their work with the teacher. This isn't as straight forward on Windows.
I guess that's the plan.
I don't get what you are talking about, yes it is this easy on Windows and has been for some time.
I went to my in laws just last week and wanted to show them some useful functions on Windows 10 as they have just upgraded.
I signed in to the PC and guess what, all my docs, pictures etc where there ready to go..!!
Man... this isn't going to work.
Chromebooks are a hit in schools for 2 reasons.
1) They are dirt cheap while performing very well for what they do. Windows is just heavier than Google Chrome, and there is no way around it. It just can't perform as well on low end hardware.
2) Chromebooks are stupid easy and fast to fix. If there is an OS screwup you just reinstall the OS. It takes 5-10 minutes, and when students log back in all of their apps and files come back in mere moments. Windows is still going to be a long awful install and upgrade process.
3) Chrome does not have Active Directory!!!!!! I cannot emphasize this enough! AD is great for businesses where you have a full-time staff able to micro-manage all of your PCs. But in a school where it is 1 tech to 1000+ boxes, and you can't afford people with lots of certs and know-how to manage everything, it quickly becomes a mess. Plus, there are simple things you just can't do on Windows... like locking down the desktop. You can't place an icon on the desktop and expect it to stay there. Just no way to do it. Then, when silly little kids go moving everything around, teachers and aids cannot find the links and the tech wastes his time fixing it. On a chromebook you just push apps and they show up in the list. Nice and easy!
Not saying that Chrome is perfect... because really it is quite limited, and the amount of things that magically break after an update is annoying. But it is far easier to manage Chrome than anything else.
I would love for Windows to have 2 OSs. One would be traditional Windows Pro/Ent that has full features and no limits. Kill off the home sku that is artificially limited. Replace the 'home' version with something like ChromeOS that has minimal features, runs wicked fast, and can be managed online for a small per-unit fee (rather than per-user). The nice thing about this is that businesses and schools need a few PCs, but most units could be replaced by these smaller simpler boxes. You could have a centralized and single directory of user accounts for everything, and then simple online settings for the simple devices, and AD for the traditional Windows boxes.
lol, and by 2 I apparantly meant 3
I guess we'll have to wait till its announced to see how this is different than the fail Windows RT. And how or why MS thinks will work.
Wow it would be easy to carry around and then I could just pair it with the Surface Phone and Walla! Full Windows 10
I believe that Microsoft wants to name current windows mobile to Windows cloud and push it as an alternative to cromebooks.. Not a bad idea 💡. At the end of day there will be 2 versions of Windows. One for arm and the other will be the 64 bit for both arm and x86
if that was true, then what is going to happen with Windows 10 on ARM, is that project going live too?
For me "Cloud" would mean all your default folders for documents, downloads etc would be automatically linked to your OneDrive and everything sync'd directly to "the cloud".
Backed up by bringing back placeholders as these devices are likely to be low on Storage thus being able to sync or not sync files & folders as and when needed would be perfect...
Useless without an Internet connection, you should work for a carrier company, you know how to sell products that depend on the Internet to survive.
I imagine this backfires on microsoft...."normal" people will see a cheap beautifully designed device running windows 10 then b disappointed wen they realise their apps(win32) don't won't on it. Windows is win32 leave everything else to google
Except in business you can't just leave a part of your business to your competitors. Google found this way to sell their crapware to schools or very light users, that means they won't be buying Windows 10 products or getting into their ecosystem. Google is very aggressive and will grow like cancer if allowed to. So this whole thing in this article sounds a bit bad but it must be understood like a competitive strategy.
I really hoped they hadn't done that. Now the developers at Microsoft are gonna be stretched thin, with developing another branch of windows, windows 10 mobile is gonna get even less attention, and the store is still a problem for most people. I think they should've just used windows on arm for the chrome book problem. The only branch of Windows that should be store only is mobile. At least until the store is more populated.
Like a windows 10 mobile continuum version on permanently.. but better
I hope that they will let Surface RT users upgrade to this SKU if possible. I still use mine everyday and love it, even if not supported by devs anymore. Win10 and UWP would give it a second life, as I now use many UWP apps even on my desktop.
To late. The major school system I work for will go for Chromebooks for every student over Windows devices starting next year. The cost, and keeping the units "Testing Ready" at all times, is the reasons. I like Microsoft and we are setup as a Microsoft shop here. But Google has more to offer us right now with a one to one roll out.
But it's not a one time deal. Those devices have a life span (which, in my experience in schools, is fairly short). If MS makes a compelling argument for their devices they will win the next round. Since most districts have heavy investments in MS devices already, that could bring them back.
They really need to find a way to 'flash' existing chromebooks to run this. Moreover, Google is about to open certin apps from the Android Play Store to Chrome. If MS can't bring the same and/or better apps then there is no reason to switch in school districts minds.
So why name this new SKU as Windows 10 Cloud when it is not focusing on the cloud?
Seems like a terrible decision on Surface. I don't see it getting any more success than RT 1.0 unless Windows 10 cloud uses the composable cShell and Windows on ARM capabilities to be used on low end ARM hardware (of any kind, phones, tablets, laptops) except without win32 emulation and has the cloud computing capabilities for win32 through cloud shell akin to that of HP Workspace. Maybe then we can talk about it.
Before you doom it by comparing to Windows RT, Windows 10 Cloud *will* run Win32 apps, as long as they come from the Windows Store. Is that correct? You called it "UWP only", but is that true? Because if it doesn't run Win32 apps, Windows 10 Cloud has an extremely cloudy future.
Not necessarily. UWP still are divided by architecture. Like having two versions of Minecraft.
So, let me get this straight: Window 10 Cloud has nothing to do with the cloud, but Microsoft put Cloud in the name just to sound hip, cool, and happening?
If there is a single constant over the last 10 years of Microsoft, it is that they are unbelievably incapable of naming products. "Surface" is the only exception. Apple and Google know how to name products. Microsoft does not have the first clue.
Well if this happens my son will be ecstatic, he has an rt2 tablet and loves it, mind at 14 he's really security conscious especially after being getting malware installed on his android tablet via the google app store. So why would you get an rt device? Ask my son, but stand well back and don't mention android.
Don't force technology on your kids! Let them choose what they want! You grew up in a differrent era to them! And this seems like a big problem to lot's of fellaz in here!
I actually believe this is a smart move. Since OEM companies are backing Windows very well with their new ideas when Microsoft can prove it is a worthy concept then the hardware and mass production ability of an OS like this while still being on a very affordable side, especially in bulk (think schools / businesses), could be mind blowing.
At the same time Microsoft is betting on their store to take off for this product. Microsoft needs to find a way to bring the hype back to Windows 10 in order to fulfill this. Give a road map with soft dates so we as consumers can have something to get excited about and developers can know that there is a future for it. Start bringing back your success stories and clean up the current store junk. After some more polishing from neon and helping developers make their apps truly UWP then a strong store could be a possibility. Which in turn could make this product a great entry budget product that I would be happy to give to my kid.
Also have to remember that the security of kids not being able to put viruses on this can practically sell itself. I also believe this will be much easier to manage for an IT department than non-Microsoft devices since you can throw it on the same directory as every other PC. I honestly don't know much of anything about chromebooks to know how their back ground directories work or stacks up against this but either way, diversity in the market should be welcomed!
OEMs will have customers, and as well as with RT, they will ask, why they cannot run desktop app X. For kids, Windows store is a desert.
Precisely as I've posted my son loves his rt tablet.
Finally, an update for my Surface RT!!! (Sarcasm). Actually, I still use my Surface RT everyday as an alarm, nightstand clock, and picture slideshow. It became an IOT alarm clock before IOT.
oh same as my lumia 800, just bigger.
Sorry, but I have to call you out on your opening sentence...I've always respected Windows Central for taking their work seriously and doing their best to conduct themselves professionally. But you guys didn't "exclusively reveal" this story, Petri.com did, like you link to in the original post. You guys break a lot of news, probably more than most. But there's no need to inflate things by talking a bit of the credit for someone else's info.
Like I said, Windows Central is usually upstanding in their efforts to act like real journalists. I'm sure it was an isolated incident, but would hate to see you guys go down that slippery slope like some other sites have.
If only MS had offered this to Surface 2 owners back when Windows 10 launched. Instead they wait a year and leave another product and its users in the dust. I don't think anyone has more abandonware.
But app store is a barren wasteland.
Whats the saying again? Something about trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome?
So Windows 10 Cloud is basically Windows 10 on ARM without the Ability to run .exe files? Or are they one and the same? If not I think this might bring a lot of confusion.
I'm confused too, if this is Windows 10 on ARM, then goodybe Surface Phone, It will never be a true PC replacement for me unless I can run powerful exe (win32 or x64) software on my phone. I'll rather get a Samsung Galaxy S8 with Continuum dock, thanks to apps like termux, it will be a true PC replacement.
This is not Windows 10 on ARM. This is Windows 10 Cloud. Windows 10 on ARM can run full x86 apps like photoshop.
Perfect, thanks for confirming.
I think Windows 10 on ARM will be epic, and that will be as disruptive as the first iPhone, with Windows 10 on ARM, there will be huge savings on power and electricity while not compromising productivity on users, like Windows 10 Cloud does.
Windows 10 on ARM runs .exe files though.
I think they are the same thing though. Windows 10 Cloud is probably just the name of the SKU.
Oh man, not this sh*t again. Maybe a year ago a move like this would work - but now that Google has announced that ALL chromebooks moving forward will have Android apps? App Gap!
Agreed, remember Steve Ballmer's comment in late 2015 when he said Satya should go ahead and allow Android apps on Windows? he was ignored, and now ChromeOS has a good chance to become prefered choice against Windows 10 cloud .
Educators don't need all of thsoe apps for their students. We need very specific apps.
lol might as well call it windows phone :) I called this back when it seemed all the windows phone apps were web wrappers. I said windows phone was turning into a chrome book and here we are.
Well, this version is alot like the Chromebook because you know... that's what Microsoft is trying to target.
Another round of confusion. Microsoft cannot decide, if it wants to tackle Android/ChromeOS/Andromeda in the consumer sphere (then, why having another SKU besides Home, and why having no Android apps in the Windows store?), or if it is in a separate prosumer category, having all this and a lot more on offer. And for education... if it can't run a IDE, it's not an education device.
Ah, and btw, where is One Microsoft, when no Visual Studio or Office product is available on the Windows store?
ChromeOS has no dev support and Android still has no larger screen dev support. That being said, apps are irrevevant for the likely targeted market of these devices...... Chromebooks are successful 1 place and only 1 place and that's education. A locked down version of Win 10 with less legacy junk & no virus issues, that requires little management cost with Edge, Office mobile + Minecraft EDU on a $200-$250 device is all Microsoft needs to make a stong pushback against Google in that market.
I'm confused if apps are irrelevant to these type of devices, MS's product appears to be another version of RT which is a app device.
They are saying, I think, that schools dont use apps on chrome devices. They use the browser for websites. And if Microsoft can provide a web browser, sync capabilities for office apps, and minecraft then its going to compete. But they need to do something with the user logins because that is an advantage on chromebooks...
You never know may be they see they have enough momentum for UWP apps! And after all I think education targeted machines would be locked down apps wise! Would like to know out of the total number of store apps what's the percentage of the UWP this could give hints
But if this is identical to Windows RT, why did they abandon it? They are running circles. They're back to running Windows on ARM (now full Windows, but this is another piece of the puzzle) and to fragmenting the versions of the OS. This puzzles me, but if it's to fight against Chromebooks, I'm all for it.
I just wish they would let you update an old Surface with RT to this version of the OS, if the hardware allows it.
They are confused...very confused. They are gonna push hard on Windows 10 mobile one day when we've all left. This is Microsoft since day one. I keep on wondering and asking myself: Who are the guys that take these kinda decisions?
although fanboys here are again thickheaded, the story is the same as with RT! Store apps only on ARM devices! RT/RT2 were both running ARM Nvidia SoCs. Both having a windows os with store apps only. Now, it's the same situation but with a newer version of windows that has the same problems: no apps! and will have the same end: ditch and run, and those stupid enough to buy into this will be burned again!
Exactly!
Stop making extra user accounts just to upvote yourself.
stopped reading at "fanboys"
Considering he is just a massive troll that spends all day on this website acting like a prick... i stopped reading at his username
The only difference is that this time it's oriented to schools and clearly aimed at taking a bite out of that Chromebook scam. Which is good strategically. We'll see if it bleeds down to general consumer devices. Especially with Windows 10 on ARM coming, though they could be DEAD cheap. It's still a weird ecosystem if (crappy) full Windows 10 tablets could be within the same price range than these "New RT" things.
Intel helped kill RT with their contra revenue scheme paying OEMs to use the more improved Atom.... Thanks to lack of execution by Intel & killing Broxton, the current Atom line is back to sucking royally again on entry level Laptops in the chromebook price rage.
There were also no office mobile apps so they had to include a desktop enviornment which confused the marketplace when those devices could not run Win32 apps.
This is all about the education market anyway, it's not about device costs. Windows laptops can get pretty cheap, it's about the total cost of Windows including IT management costs. Alot can go wrong with Windows over time, by comparison the teacher can be tech support for Chromebooks.
An odd move to be sure. I wonder how they plan on marketing this in order to avoid all the problems they had with RT?
Waht problems with RT? It does exactly what it was designed to do. I still use mine at least once a day. If this is marketed soley to education, there won't be any confusion.
As I said, marketing. It was fine for what it was, but a lot of consumers felt like they got served a broken version of windows. Either way I'm excited to see what they do.
Yes, let me update my RT to this. I still get regular updates which is interesting for a "dead" os.
But why do they create another SKU if they already have Windows 10 Mobile? They could optimize it for this usecase with much less work :D
How do you know it's not heavily based on W10M? ;)
I don't know :D I'm just guessing around :D
Likely, to further pull everything together. The current Win 10 Mobile only has some elements of Windows 10 and not exactly the same 100%. As MS continue this path, we will likely see an OS that is completely one, but able to operate differently, depending on hardware specs, design and needs of the customer.
This is assuming that I have understood what has been said, thus far.
I love Windows 10, but surely going to this path again isn't a great move. Not that it bothers me personally, just don't see the point.
This is more of a branch than a path as full Windows 10 will still be around.
Chromebook have like a 0.4% market share. This is purely to kill Them off in the education sector. No consumers actually use a Chromebook. Just schools.
Yes and that's already a threat! Imagine kids growing with chromebooks in the android era and the upcoming andromeda what do you think of 10 years to come?
Pretty sure that the SVP of Google said that they aren't going to merge the two. He said that they are bringing features of one over to another like cross pollinating, but no full out merger. https://chromeunboxed.com/chrome-os-and-android-not-merging-sorry-androm...
Yes but still they will be able to run all programs in their machines! Hence still the same thing! You know the MAIN problem with us HUMANS is that tend to be reluctant to change! When you go over at crackberry there're die hard fans waiting for BB10.4 while they could instead pick a next iphone/galaxy and be happy (the same applies to windphones fanboiz) . So the generation with chromebooks might reject windows when they group up even in the enterprise !
Didn't say the younger generation wouldn't be more prone to pick a Google product, simply saying that Andromeda wasn't really a valid argument.
Nothing. It's not the same thing. This is just for the schools market and some businesses. Not the average consumer device kids will want to use at home.
I don't think it is a threat. The teachers at my kids school hate them. And my kids really don't like using them. Especially after using our home all in one touchscreen pc. All it has done at local schools here is have the school teachers not recommend parents get them for school work but instead opt for Windows 10 devices. Windows 10 actually gets a great billing from teachers because of Chromebook. If anything its having the undesired effect Google wanted.
Seen plenty of people with Chromebooks here (UK), including my own. Heck, I haven't walked past a computer store without a stand filled with them. They make pretty decent Linux laptops too when they're coming up to 5 years old. I'm not saying W10C is a bad idea, because it's not: I've been wanting a UWP-only version of Windows 10 for ages, along with many others who miss Windows RT 8.
The market share of 0.4% for Chromebooks in 2016 says different. I suppose similar to Linux market share of 1%.
You mean usage share.
Really????
WTH? Just add landscape mode feature on Windows 10 Mobile's Start screen and put it on large Tablet! Done! Why make an new OS?
It's one os , OneCore windows 10 remember?
I mean, why another Windows 10 when there is already Windows 10 Mobile with same features (just without landscape mode which many want)
Why does one need mobile on a full fledge laptop? If you have access to mouse/keyboard and normal size window you just run Win10 full. If one wants mobile apps on their laptop, then I would think you buy the Chromebook, of course, I don't understand it... but if one was into mobile apps you go with the Google product.
How is it a laptop when you cant run desktop apps?
That is actually my point, if you have a laptop why would one elect to put RT on it... when full Win10 is available.
Price! Cheaper hardware cant run full Win10. Chromebooks are cheap and run on low end hardware. And full Windows 10 also needs lots of storage.
You can buy 8 inch tablets that cost less then $100 that run full Win10, I have a 4 year old 8 inch tablet runs full Win10... Win10 was actually built to run on lower end machines. This is still Win10, they just stripped out the win32.
Tablet specs:
Intel Atom CPU Z3740D 1.33Ghz, 4 Cores 2GB RAM and 32GB memory.
This is a beast compared to what my parents are running on their Win8 tablet.
Same tablet if it had Windows 10 Mobile it would have been way faster.
Speed is not really a problem, of course if you are in the Chromebook market, you are probably not going to running full Photoshop or 3D Studio Max. On mine, for a few apps up, I don't find it any slower than my Surface, I even connect it to a display. Let's just put it this way... these specs are nothing and you buy the components for nothing... the small form factor is where the initial costs were... in a laptop these costs are close to nothing in today's world. If you are in the market for a Chromebook, you probably aren't using it to make the next animation for a pixar film. Interesting enough, I can run full win32 photoshop on mine, but of course, a tablet is not an ideal place for doing that type of work and yes the specs could be higher. Again, not sure why one would care about UWP on a full size laptop.
Dude... Just look at the point why people buy chromebooks! See the performance between chromebook and a low end win10 tab. Windows 10 on low end hardware sucks! Its so slow and starts lagging easily...
People that buy Chromebooks are not buying it for performance. Windows 10 runs fine on low end machines, matter of fact you can throw Win10 on say my old 9-year old Vista machine and it has a much better performance then Windows Vista. So, yes, you can run Win10 on old and very out of dated hardware. Not sure where you are getting this from... Win10 was made to run on low end mobile devices. Whether you are buying a Chromebook or some similar specs as my 8 inch tablet... you probably are only going to be using them with a few programs or apps anyway. I'm really failing to see your point. My tablet is a beast compared to the tablet my parents Win8 tablet and Win10 is much more efficent then even Win8. imo
Ik it was made to run on low end devices... But use them and you'll understand... All low end devices are sucks! I bought one and it had no use, it started lagging and had no storage! Now Microsoft can make it on cheap ARM processors which also has good battery life. Without desktop apps, it can run very smooth and take up less storage!
henocksandy, then the Windows Cloud SKU is not for you. I'm really not sure what your point is. And I think you are making a lot of stuff up as you go around. Not sure what you mean by "lagging" and no "storage". Your posts are really not making much sense, to be honest, I have no idea what your point is.
Again, schools... There's no point having full windows 10 on an education device when you're going to lock most of it down. So not only is it easier to manage for the IT dept. Also it will take up much less storage space on the device. You'll be able to get away with 16GB devices. As to why they just don't use windows mobile, again, there are things in there that wont be needed like calls etc. It's also great for people that don't need full windows 10, my wife for instance would be more than happy, all she ever uses is Edge with two tabs, Facebook and Youtube. Occasionally browsing, maybe a word document once or twice a year. Such a device would be perfect for her. The battery would last twice as long, it would boot faster, etc. Just because such a device doesn't fit into your life, doesn't mean there's no one else out there that it's not suited to. I have no need for tampons, shampoo, high heels, a wheel chair, a hot air balloon, juggling balls, a lawnmower, or a Cloudbook, an iPhone, a microwave, a shower curtain... And a million other things. Doesn't mean I think they should all be discontinued.
Kieran, if one has a desire to have a Chromebook type device, then you would just go buy a Chromebook. MS already tried this with Win8 RT, what is different today? (nothing) Now it could be that you could be right, but I doubt it. Hey look Microsoft is coming out with mPhone, its just like a iPhone but it has no apps and no support... why wouldn't one just buy a iPhone? Or why would they switch?
@MakoDaniels When you don't get it, sometimes it's better to stop posting ;)
Oh I get it. :) Lots of fanboys that never bought the original RT or a Windows Phone, or bought GFWL games.. :) This product will produce more laughs in the year/s to come... if it even makes it that far. DOA even with schools.
you can only be a fanboy or a hateboy - makes me laugh.
emma0, well, I look at it as honesty. I would say the things mariusmuntean is saying is pretty much fact. Now whether something like RT2.0 will fail like 1.0 is speculation, but with that said we already have a history to rely on to give us guidance. Of course, if someone wants to roll the dice... be my guest. Good luck, my guess is one is going to need a bunch of luck and most probably will have brick on their hands... that's not hate... that's just being realistic.
He does get it, but you fanboys don't. win rt was a complete wreck of failure, and many , including me, bought into that MS experiment and got burned.
Windows RT was a failure! It was never planned properly! What did they even target with that? But this time, Satya Nadella has proper plans for this! We have to see what his plan really is. You all can talk looking at reports or leaks or what happend in the past but we know Nadella will do the right thing. Lets see the final product and then talk!
I don't really understand why someone would want a closed system MS device, generally, the competition has more to offer than MS, its that simple. Let's say you are right and RT was failure do to planning? What are the plans now? Was it a lack of planning that WP7 was a failure, what about WP8 and 8.1 was that due to improper planning, what about the Band 1 and 2? What about WP10 and Lumia? What about Kinect 2.0? What about Zune? What about Vista? What about Games for Windows Live 1 and 2? Etc. etc. MS generally has a lot more failures than successes in the consumer world over the last 10+ years. I mean even stuff that is still around is just a nightmare for the consumer i.e. Skype, completely ruined what Skype was. imo Thoses users (general users) probably aren't coming back.
Your talking about sucess and failure from 10 years? Look at the success after Satya Nadella became CEO!
Not sure what you mean by success. The failures I have mentioned most are only a few years ago... of course GFWL was started in 2008 but they kept saying how they were all about the platform even into 2013... huge failure. Your comment is part of their problem... you think a non-support product from 2-3 years ago is a long time... its in the realm of technology its not... heck I guess its time for me to pickup another surface since this one is 14 months old. Haha.
The band 2.0 released in late 2015, win10m was released in late 2015. Windows 8 and Rt were released in 2012. I'm not sure of the huge successes your are counting it certaintly isn't in their app and mobile consumer devices. It's dead like a doornail.
As as new consumer products is a waste land of failures... not sure what successes you are talking about even if you could come up with one or two they are buried in all their failures. The consumer most likely isn't coming back, although as noted by others this might be a product aimmed at schools.
I could recommend some of MS's more professional win32 products like the surface line, but for most consumers really they need to be looking at Android/iOS for that. If you are messing with MS closed system, I would stay away like its an infected zombie... chances are it will fail and fail big.
Band 2 was not a failure!! Just because Microsoft stoped it does not mean it failed! It was a great product! Unfortunately Microsoft didn't release it everywhere. But the real reason why they stoped it was because Satya Nadella had different plans for its technology! He removed everything unwanted and has better plans for the future. Everything he released is a success till now!
Unfortunattely... no plan.. no this... no that. What you are describing is failure... you are making excuses for their failure.. then you turn around say they are not failure but they stopped making them. Haha. Its very apparent you want to create your own version of the English language. The Band was a failure, and left the remaining few users out to dry, just like WP users. There are no or limited successes for MS in the consumer space... which is why Android and iOS are dominant. End of the story, of course, you are free to make stuff up as you go along as you have been. Have a great day... I'm sure there are dozen of you Band users out there, probably have group cry sessions with the dozen remaining WP users.
Wow! You just proved that you are just a HATER and only expecting Microsoft to fail!!! You'll only TALK NEGATIVE so no point talking to YOU!!! And that CLOSES THE TOPIC!
The topic is closed because you aren't making any sense and you really haven't been in the whole thread. I've never understood the whole fanboyism mentality, like something out of Idiocracy. I am not stopping you from buying the Band, or WP or Zune or RT device or <insert latest MS consumer device>... go roll the dice.
lol, Band wasn't a failure? it was a complete crappy device. How many times one had to replace it because the wrist band got fcked up? you call that quality?
:))) what success ?? :))) laying off experienced engineers and hiring low cost ones? using insiders instead of pro testers to cut costs? windows 10 mobile, a complete garbage?
Once again, Schools, It's much better for them to have everything windows, much easier for their IT departments etc. They only need two or three apps. They don't need kids installing things and constantly battling to keep kids from trying to work around the security. People that are familiar with Windows but just want a device for light browsing and maybe typing up a letter every once in as while. People that like that there's not 3000 apps that just do the same thing. Why don't we just buy a Chromebook? She sampled one in a store and didn't like it. She likes her laptop. If she had one of these Cloudbooks, she wouldn't know the difference between it and a Windows 10 laptop. There's no learning curve, she would have everything she ever needs, and she wouldn't have to plug it in everywhere she goes because the battery would likely last more than 2 hours.
FYI, she did have a Surface RT and loved it. She'd still be using it today if it hadn't gone swimming.
The main reason RT was a huge flop, because it wasn't clear what it was. I'm pretty sure MS has learned their lessons from the previous effort and can market this in the right way. There's clearly a market for these devices as it's just a windows version of Chromebook, Andriod and iOS, which are all selling pretty well. So people do want these devices.
Even if it is a flop, it isn't like MS can't afford to write off another few billion. Plus it may be that link between PC and Mobile that gets them noticed more in the casual crowd that doesn't need or want the all singing and dancing devices.
You hit the nail on the head. Windows requires an IT department to manage. That is really pricey and Chromebooks do not require an IT department.
So...
...you don't wash your hair, huh?
Ha ha. Wonderful comment. Though it has minor AR issues, my 80 dollar Win 10 8 inch tablet bought in 2013 also serves as a desktop computer via a simple HDMI cable 😁
This probably ties in with really, really cheap ARM processors (or Atoms maybe?) that wouldn't even run Windows 10 on ARM. We shall wait and see how the puzzles of this future ecosystem.
In this case, to lock it down for education purposes.
A Chromebook equals a laptop with mobile apps according to you. and you find that to be fine. But MS's alternative, you find fault with and rationalize the same thing from a different company. You don't understand because you don't understand your bias. Your confusion has little to do with not understanding the product nor the market.
Truth!
You're right. Completely right. Little changes here and little changes there 👉 windows rt 2. It will help the phones (more support will be welcome) and it'll be a mature, stable OS for the rt devices. Win win situation.
:)) like winmobile was right? keep your hopes in vain, MS is not capable of delivering. Besides their surface pros/studio,xbox nothing is ok. Windows 10 on pcs is a data mining champion, full of bugs and broken updates, soon to conquer Vista as the worst OS, their UWP plan is DOA as no one is interested in creating apps, and the proof is obvious: more devs abandon than come to it, windows mobile is the king of failures in the entire IT industry and a nice template of how not to treat your customers.
How do you know it's not already heavily based on W10M?
That's my worry. Microsoft presents this to the world in the same manner as rt...looking identical to full.
After taking the time to merge rt and wp, you might as well just build up w10m
That won't happen if they direct thios to education only.
LOL not again...after users got burned and ditched with the other RT, do they really expect anyone to trust buying into this? :)) except for blind fanboys?
Pretty sure these are only meant for the Education market, where Chromebooks are seeing success because of 1. low price 2. security 3. manageability. I doubt these devices will even appear initially for the general consumer market. And either way, this is another SKU of Windows 10 which is not getting abandoned anytime soon.
Not sure what you mean there because 11 inch HP Stream laptop with good enough specs for 'education sector' sells for as little as 200 dollars now. Also, I recently bought CPU boxes with a pretty good Intel processor , 4GB RAM and 320 GB hdd for just 100 dollars each. And they are just brilliant !
But you need antivirus and need to maintain them. The appeal of chromebooks for schools s both low price and very little maintenance. We actually had an hp stream. It wasn't good enough specs. It only had 32gb of storage. Installing office on it meant there wasn't even enough space to run updates. Office 365 doesn't give you the option to install just word and PowerPoint that my kid needed. I had to install the whole thing. It also only has 2gb of ram. So, trying to multitask would slow down the computer to point where it was difficult to use. We finally gave up and got him a decent $500 machine. At least these "cloud" computers don't pretend that you can actually run x86 apps on them when the reality is that the experience is horrible.
Did you miss the part where this new SKU will only run apps bought from the Store? (UWP and Centennial)
Great, if there were actual apps in the store worth using.
I'm sure you as a notorious Google fanboy wouldn't use any app from the Windows Store even if they could save your life. :)
There is almost no reason to use the app store in Windows. Websites do the same thing, don't require any installation and just become a tab in the browser you are already using. There is no concrete advantage to using the app store versus the website. X86 is more powerful when you do need a program.
Apps just aren't the usual work flow on Windows so getting users to adopt them is tough, which makes it really hard to get serious developer support. Especially when Windows 10 is less than 30% of Windows I. Why limit yourself when a website gets everyone and x86 is open to all PCs.
This is directed to the education market. There will be specific apps for that purpose.
Additionally, there may not be a reason for you to use the Store, but many of us do. I have been since Windows 8.1. There are apps there that meet my needs and games that I enjoy.
You seem to be in the minority. App store usage on Windows hasn't caught on.
Yet again you are only seeing things in your own little world.
Take this as just one single 'concrete' adfvatage from a sea of many.
You want to do somehting in Office but you currently have no internet connection..??!!
This is directed to the education market. There will be specific apps for that purpose.
Chromebooks do not require apps, that is part of the beauty for schools. Students have their documents easily available no matter what device or platform they are on. They are not dependent on apps. I assume Windows XP will not be either. If Microsoft wants to convert schools, they should offer very similar experience as a base point.
Where did you see "education market"?
People assume since it is supposedly going to compete with ChromeOS.
I'll go ever further in saying that the $75/CAD ($57/USD) W10 Nuvision tablets I purchased for my kids at Christmas with 8", Intel Atom, 2GB ram 32GB storage run most office applications faster then my i5 6300 notebook with 8GB of ram. They have the latest W10 build, over a dozen games full Office 365, and still have over 14Gb of free space and I can always add a MicroSD. Some games also load significantly faster because of the speed of the memory vs my 5400rpm drive. Sure the screen is small but heck, it's bigger than a phone... So we won't be needing chrome books. As for RT 2.0.. I think if what's purposed is just to strip everything and allow just the store, things should just stay the way they are. I don't think they need another SKU to support when the current is better. On the other hand, if they are heading towards what HP is doing with the x3 and game publishers are trying to do for low-end machines with the cloud, this could be exciting. Can't wait for all the details.
Did you read that it's for the education market. In education we have significantly different needs than the average consumer has.
Absolutely read everything and Education does present different challenges than the retail market. Manageability, software choices, usability, durability and TCO should have everything to do with school board purchases. But IMO, far too often decisions are being made because of the phones board members are using.
For clarity, my comment above was to respond how there's already plenty of low-cost Windows 10 solutions. PC manufactures already offer cheaper alternatives with Windows 10 Home/Pro and integrate perfectly in to most schools current infrastructure. Also, there are mired of possibilities with a stripped down shell for even lower specked hardware and possibility security with a stripped down shell and like I said, I do look forward to hear where Microsoft is going with this as there are no confirmed details and time will tell.
Yeah, but the only reason to use MS is for legacy and network management. If this thing doesn't do all the things a windows pc does, it's dead in the water. SMH
mariusmuntean, its not just RT people that have been burned. So, it appears again that Microsoft is striving for a closed system approach just like Sweeney/Gabe continue to talk about over the years. Literally, they produce products just for the sake of abandoning it. Why wouldn't someone just buy a Chromebook? Not sure why anyone would want mobile apps on their desktop or laptop but that is just me I guess. This is DOA already, let alone on arrival. imo
"Windows 10 Cloud is a great solution for providing a cheap, low-end SKU for hardware makers to bundle on low-end devices" Haha, the author truly can't believe this. I about fell out of my chair from laughing at this statement, nice ad.
Because its for schools. No one outside of schools used Chromebook. Well actually 0.4% market share. And schools would rather use Microsoft Word than the Google app equivalent. My kids school complain about Chromebooks all the time. So this essentially just kills the Chromebook off. For education a similar price Windows device is much preferred.
Schools can already buy cheap windows products if they want, I bought tablet for parents over 2 years ago running FULL win8 for less than $90. So. Schools don't give a crap about Word and even if they did I believe Office is available to Chromebook users, you can even run Office online for free from a Chromebook if that is your thing. For the record, I use LibreOffice on my Windows devices. Basically, its a going to be a failed attempt to get kids into a closed system, either way I doubt anyone moves or even cares... which is why RT had such a quick death. If I have a laptop, not sure why I need UWP to start with to be honest.... just run win32 or a full size web browser.
Tell that to your blind self! It's 2017 not in the 19s where there were no alternatives and people had to use the monopoly! Before you write down your fanboi reactions do some research on gdocs and how does it help the education process and ask if office365 got that!
I have researched gdocs (g suite now) and Office is better. And more importantly, businesses (in general, not ALL) use office. So why teach kids g suite when office is the main productivity software used by businesses? And it too is very cheap for schools to buy now.
What a joke, GSuite doesn't even come close to Office. Vast majkority of Enterprise users are on Office because of Excel and Word.
The question is, why do people complain about Chromebooks? Will a stripped down version of Windows be much better since you can't run legacy programs? I could see it being more frustrating, since people will wonder why they can't install what they want on the Windows machine.
They complain about Chromebooks, but Microsoft has to have an equivalent just because of pricing and no maintenance. Like in schools en some businesses.
I guess a stripped down version of Windows is still Windows. And IMHO children should be taught to use a computer within a real productivity environment. In that respect, using either a Chromebook or an iPad, if it were, amounts to using a toy.
^^^^ THIS ! Teachers.. literally fight over who will get to use the "Laptops" so they dont have to use the dang Chromebook or iPad that doesnt work right... Free/Cheap is why alphabet is even a blip on the radar... doesnt mean they are good... (same for iPads as apple loves to give them away via grants etc...)
Many schools have been using Windows for ages and moving to Chromebooks requires a lot of setup and relearning. But for many schools they think they'll save money moving to Chromebooks (forgetting the training & IT costs), so giving them a solid Windows alternative at the same price as a Chromebook will keep them in Windows. Chances are the students who'd be getting a Chromebook (or a Windows Cloud machine) wouldn't require legacy programs (though there's a least a chance of wrapping a Win32 program as a UWP app) so Windows has the upper hand there. Get enough Windows Cloud machines out there, the almost unimagineable hope of the Windows Store getting decent apps may change.
At this point I wonder how good a deal is for the school to get a bunch of chromebooks, is it THAT good that they are willing to get those things?
Windows requires way more setup. Chromebooks basically have no setup other than giving the children a login and password. Our son had been using them at school for years and we have heard no complaints from anyone about them.
Chromebooks are easy to set up initially, but the chroombooks we have are managed. So, if we wipe them we have to re-enroll them. We can image a whole lab of computers before we can a whole cart of chromebooks. But chromebooks are simple in that studends log in and start working. And they handle multiple users well too.
The only concern I have with chromebooks is, are students who will need to use office in the work place learning office at school? And generally that is no when chromebooks are involved.
As if the difference between Office and Google Docs is large enough to matter. Once you learn how to ride a bike, it doesn't matter what brand of bike you are riding. They are all basically the same and any differences are quickly learned.
90+% of Fortune 500 companies would beg to differ on your point. The difference between GDocs and Office is the size of a canyon. GDocs is perhaps better for real time collaboration, but doesn't hold a candle to Office in terms of flexibility, breadth of features and sheer power.
Not sure when you last looked at what is in the "full" office suite, but besides, the usual XLSX, DOCX, PPTX suspects + Outlook, there is Access, Publisher, Visio, Project, SharePoint and a bunch of others. Throw in OneDrive for Business just for good measure. Just because you know GDocs as a kid, won't make it easy to transition to Office and be a master of pivot tables or mail merge once you enter the workforce.
My company is in top 25 of Fortune 500 and, like vast majority of the others, is heavily piloting in-house O365 cloud solution. Not every enterprise is willing to commit to GSuite and let their data out of the company on public cloud, no matter how secure they tout it to be. That aspect will probably play a key role in decisions. Data privacy & data security.
You think elementary students are using all that?!
At my district they get chrome books in 5th grade, but start learning Excel and Word on a classroom iMac. My point was that by teaching them Office from young age, their transition is much easier once they get out of college, because Office is so ubiquitous. That is where they will encounter all the other parts of Office.
Read my comment above !
If you were an educator you would realize that these make sense for sducation. We want the computers to be locked to only be useful for educational purposes.
I wanted to attempt to address this but I have a feeling that you don't want to listen. You'll just argue back. I just don't want to waste my time. If you're truly looking to see the light through the fog, let me know. If you're firm in your reasoning and can't see or don't want it to be changed, that's cool too.
Cheomebooks are a closed system as well. The android apps that it runs now are downloaded from Google play store. I don't see the difference. They main reason people want the chromebooks is security and low maintenance. As for why would people want mobile apps on a PC. If the apps scale properly on the screen, it's not a mobile app. It's just an app and apps are often better than using a website. They can give notifications, can provide more functions, and often run faster than a web equivalent. The question is whether Microsoft can actually get the top developers to build UWP apps. It certainly doesn't help that they keep abandoning products.
your comment makes no sense. Who was burned from RT other than those who didn't know what it was?
I still have a Windows RT tablet that i use every night at bed for surfing the web. It is a fantastic device for what it was meant to be. Noone in the know bought one of those things for work. So again: only those who didn't know were burned.
I'll happily buy a Windows 10 Cloud aka Windows RT 2.0 tablet. The Store is leaps and bounds better than in the early days plus it will be a fantastic device for all web needs.
The people that have RT I don't think can upgrade, they have limited ability to put new apps on there... and the app selection is very limited compared to the competition. The question is, why would someone buy this when there are better products that have existed for a long time and that clearly have more legs and better support? The current store will eventually fail just as the Win8 store failed and GFWL store failed.
Well, you clearly have not seen the Windows 10 Store lately. The current Windows Store not only delivers Windows 8 apps but also UWP apps and legacy Win32 Project Centennial apps. The app selection will just increase with time.
Microsoft is using the Windows Store to house apps across all device form factors. It is not merely for desktop Windows but for Windows as a whole. I think your predictions of doom are premature.
Or immature. I'm willing to bet he owned or knows someone close to him that owned an rt device who didn't know what they were getting. So now he's on this rage for not understanding the product before making a purchasing decision on it. Anyone who knows what it was meant for knows rt was and is still a good idea. Even the win32 fanatics. Their only complaint is uwp isn't a mature enough replacement yet due to lack of apis/functionality. Which is a reasonable concern.
I have an rt and it ******* sucks now. Barely any apps. The weather app doesn't even work anymore because it keeps promoting for an update while there is non! The mail app and everything is really outdated. Rt buyers have been ****** in the arse. Period. I can't even play a mkv probably because all the apps got removed from the store. Rofl.
Please keep the comments civil, thank you
I use my RT every day. It's a fine devioce for what it was designed for.
I think he refers to RT being abandoned, leaving older Surface models with no upgrade option beyond Windows RT 8.1
everything RT related: apps, no upgrade path. So yeah...glad I know this, so I can call my ex IT teacher to avoid any of this MS crap experiments...
On one hand, it's not a bad device for certain use scenarios, even now. The store apps are still enough for a lightweight use, and most are even still updated (this translates into a bit of a failure to adopt Win10/UWP apps, interestingly enough it might be interpreted as Windows RT having been more successful than Win 10).
But yeah, as you say, most of us who bought a Surface were expecting this version of the OS would have support beyond a couple years. And it is perplexing or downright infuriating to see that MS comes back to the same concept behind RT (or ARM) AFTER killing RT, not to update RT machines but to just launch a new version of the concept.
At this point the best they could do is release this whole thing as a really lightweight version of Windows 10 store apps and allow Surface RT/2 users to upgrade to it. Would be a win/win scenario, though it remains to see whether an old Surface can take it. Personally I think a Surface 2 could maybe manage.
That would be a great idea so users of rt would have an upgrade path but it's my understanding that it's something to do with that tegra processsor. Not that I believe that since full w10 system requirements go down with each version but I believe that is what has been said.
Still have my Surface RT, turn it on every so often hoping for a surprise update :D Windows cloud hopefully!
They should turn off the desktop because it just confused everyone the first time around. If it was full screen start menu from the start and only that, people could see it was a different thing.