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What's going on with Microsoft's Surface Andromeda device?

The last couple of weeks have been rife with speculation surrounding Microsoft's mythical Andromeda device, with recent rumors suggesting Microsoft is close to pulling the plug on its dual-screen mobile handset — understandably throwing optimists and die-hard fans into a panic. Everything from delays to significant hardware changes, to outright cancelations, have been spotted on the rumor mill as of late. So what's really going on?

I've been doing some digging to try and clarify some of the recent rumours reported by several news outlets, to see if we can make better sense of the situation.

ZDNet's Mary-Jo Foley recently wrote a bit about Andromeda and revealed that Microsoft has decided to delay its release to next year, and is also seriously considering canceling the device altogether. This news caught many off guard because just a few days beforehand The Verge had written a somewhat positive article that revealed internal emails describing the Andromeda project itself.

Related: For Surface Andromeda to succeed, it absolutely needs these mobile apps

Unfortunately, it is believed that the leaked emails in question are months old, from back when Terry Myerson was still in charge. Many believe that now Myerson is out, Andromeda won't ever see the light of day, which is entirely possible of course. However, I was able to confirm recently on the Windows Central Podcast that Andromeda is still alive and kicking internally, with the only bad news being that its planned release date has indeed been pushed back to next year.

Why the delay?

Lumia 950 and Surface

Lumia 950 and Surface (Image credit: Windows Central)

The question now is why? Well, according to my sources, Microsoft has decided to push back Andromeda's release to give itself more time to improve both the hardware and software. There are a whole lot of moving parts involved when it comes to Andromeda, as it's being built alongside a custom version of Windows 10 specifically for the device and form-factor itself, similar to Surface Hub and HoloLens.

The Andromeda device runs an experience tailored for its unique form-factor, which is built on top of Windows Core OS. This tailored experience is known as Andromeda OS and includes no legacy UIs and bloat. Microsoft is doing the exact same thing with Surface Hub 2, which also runs a custom tailored version of Windows Core OS known as Aruba and built specifically for that large collaborative device form factor.

Microsoft pushed back Andromeda's release to give itself more time to perfect the hardware and software.

Therefore, it's important to stress that Andromeda OS is unlike any version of Windows 10 available on the market today; it's an entirely new Windows OS experience powered by CShell that's built from the ground up for mobile dual-screened multitasking. Because of this, Microsoft needs more time to ensure the OS is well-baked.

Microsoft also needs more time to improve the app-gap on Andromeda, which is another cited reason for its delay. If Microsoft were to release Andromeda this year, it would do so with a platform that has more missing apps than Windows 10 Mobile did. One of the things Microsoft is doing to help combat the app problem is embracing PWAs (Progressive Web Apps.) It's even built a bot that will automatically add PWAs to the Microsoft Store without developers having to submit them first.

Of course, PWAs won't solve everything, but they should be able to step in for the most popular apps and services like Twitter, Uber, and even Spotify if it chooses. The delay gives Microsoft more time to get PWAs into the Store, and I hear Microsoft is going to use this extra time also to improve the Edge engine so that PWAs perform better and eat less battery life.

It probably goes without saying that UWP is also something Microsoft is actively pushing on Andromeda, and apps like WhatsApp are a possible contender for this, but progress on the UWP front is slow, hence the focus on PWAs. Furthermore, I'm told there are other ideas that the company is also considering to help improve the app situation on Andromeda, but I'm still digging for information on that. For now, we know that Microsoft is betting big on PWA, and rightly so.

What about the hardware?

I've seen a few rumors claim that the delay is related to hardware, with some reports suggesting that Microsoft is planning to rethink the device and even change its form-factor a bit. According to my sources, however, Microsoft is not planning to drastically change its form factor. The delay is primarily software related, as the hardware itself was more or less good to go for an October release.

The delay now means Microsoft has more time to "fine-tune" the hardware, and maybe even slip in a newer processor, depending on whether Andromeda's release lines up with Snapdragons processor roadmap of course. I understand that the latest Andromeda prototypes use Snapdragon 845/850 processors, but now Andromeda is coming later, those chips may be old by the time Microsoft is ready to launch the device.

It's worth noting that early Andromeda prototypes used a Snapdragon 835 processor, which was later switched out for the 845. So, Andromeda has already gone through one processor switch internally before, meaning it's not hard to imagine the device going through another one if needs be. A more powerful, optimized ARM chip is never a bad thing.

It's also not uncommon for a device to go through several iterations throughout development. Putting in a newer processor may require the company to rework some of the internals, but outside of that, I have not heard of any plans to dramatically change up the form-factor itself. It should still be a pocketable, pen-orientated foldable device with telephony when it ships.

So when is it coming?

The biggest question now is when can we expect it to show up? The simple, unexciting answer is "when it's ready." Windows development has changed quite a bit since the old days, and deadlines aren't as strict as they used to be. How it works now is engineers working on software features will have a set deadline for a future release of Windows 10, let's say RS5 for example. This usually happens several months to a year or so before that release is expected to ship.

It'll be ready when it's ready.

This gives engineers time to build out a feature, but if the engineers find that they are unable to complete the feature in time, they can just push it back to the release coming afterward. So in our example, said feature is pushed back to RS6, and the team working on it now have an extra six months to complete it. This cycle repeats until the feature is good enough to ship. This is exactly what's happening with Windows Sets, in fact. This is partly why Microsoft is committed to two updates a year as it allows Microsoft to get features out sooner after they get pushed back.

The software delay for Andromeda is with Andromeda OS, which simply won't be ready in time for RS5 now. So, that means Microsoft's next port of call for Andromeda is RS6 (known as 19H1) in the Spring of next year. Even then, Microsoft may decide to hold on releasing it until the fall of 2019, alongside RS7 (known as 19H2) giving the company even longer to make sure everything is good to go and maybe even slip in that newer processor.

It's not plain sailing

Windows Phones

Windows Phones (Image credit: Windows Central)

Of course, if you've been following along with our Andromeda coverage since last year, you'll know that the possibility of Microsoft killing Andromeda is never far away. As of today, work continues on Andromeda as normal, but that doesn't mean it's plain sailing from here until it ships. Microsoft may pull the plug at any time, as is the nature of internal development.

We also still don't really know who this device is going to be for, and that's because we don't know its full feature-set yet. Who Andromeda is for is going to depend heavily on what it can do. If Microsoft can improve the app-gap, then buying Andromeda is going to evolve primarily around its capabilities, on both the software and hardware front. Hopefully we'll learn more about what it can do in the near future, but for now who Andromeda is aimed at remains a big mystery.

In short, Microsoft has delayed its Andromeda device to ensure a better product when it ships. All of the people I've spoken to on the subject agree that delaying Andromeda is nothing but a good thing. It just sucks that we're going to have to wait even longer before we get to see it for real. In the meantime, what are your thoughts on Microsoft's Andromeda project? Let us know in the comments!

Zac Bowden is a Senior Editor at Windows Central. Bringing you exclusive coverage into the world of Windows 10 on PCs, tablets, phones, and more. Also an avid collector of rare Microsoft prototype devices! Keep in touch on Twitter: @zacbowden.

193 Comments
  • I think experimentation approach would be better...release something now and iterate the software quickly....
  • agree
  • Launch with Windows core OS + Android subsystem
  • Analysis paralysis: "Analysis paralysis or paralysis by analysis is the state of over-analyzing (or over-thinking) a situation so that a decision or action is never taken, in effect paralyzing the outcome."
  • yeah, their decision making seems to be more guided by fear of failure...
    they want to wait till they feel there is no risk of failure ...that means wait forever!
    in this age of AI...quick experimentation without betting the farm is the way to go...slow movers won't get a chance :)
  • Let's be honest. This device just isn't that important to Satya Nadella/Microsoft. It's not a priority. By the time this thing launches (if ever) there will already be several Android (and possibly Apple) options to choose from... which will pretty much make the Surface Phone DOA.
  • I'm willing to bet part of the reason they won't release it is bc they don't want people to be disappointed when they discover it's not a surface phone
  • Usually I would disagree with this approach, but since any significant delay would seriously risk Andromeda getting gazumped by an Android device I have to agree. Kinda. A bad release will kill it, but getting gazumped will kill it, so they have one narrow window of opportunity and better get that software going great very soon to take advantage. If they miss that one chance, I see a retrenching on the horizon.
  • Yes, even if they come up with an excellent product at some point in the future..because of the switching cost it'd be difficult to get people to give it a chance....but if they release it now and quickly evolve it...at least it would have a chance of some success...like you said delaying it is same as effectively killing it.. software is never going to perfect...unless you go the apple way by limiting your use cases and tightly controlling the ecosystem...but with Microsoft always wanting to be everything to everybody there is no chance of that happening before it's too late :) I think, If they start open sourcing some components of windows strategically - the software could evolve rapidly...and also make the ecosystem more appealing to the developers... As far as I'm concerned I think Andromeda is going the same way as Courier...I'm looking forward to getting my Note 9!
  • I don't see much of a chance if when the inevitable Android takes on a dual screen device releases, the Andromeda will be killed. That's literally throwing away money. I definitely would not release
  • I don't know, first impressions are really important. Even Apple with its brand couldn't just push out Home Pods unfinished without backlash. Microsoft is already doing very well financially without phones at all, so they might as well wait, they literally have nothing to lose. That said, I can't wait for Andromeda!
  • Apple came out with Home pods AFTER Amazon and Google (and even the slow moving Microsoft) had already released their smart speakers. But, if they were the first ones to release a smart speaker... Apple fans would have loved it and wouldn't have minded those shortcomings :)
  • The first product is relatively meaningless. Its the commitment and iterations that matter. Android proved that.
  • Surface did too, now that I think about it. Nadella just doesn't have any toughness in him.
  • Exactly! Based on the rumors kipman worked on the device...not Panos.
    May be Panos doesn't want the device to be released as part of the surface brand without him not leading the development!
    Hope he doesn't kill it... What Kipman has done with Mixed reality headsets - building low cost devices, bringing all the OEMs on board, etc...
    is going to help Windows MR succeed in the consumer market in the long run!. - even though these first iteration headsets didn't sell well If he really did work on Andromeda...I'm sure he would've done a great job!
  • Yes, I'm sold on this one. The more the delay the more matured product will be when it gets here and it's evidently going to be a game changer of a device both in software and hardware front, of course it deserves some time experimenting.
  • well by the time they get something out...there will be no game to change...game would be over :)
  • I'm cool with the delay.
  • No that would be terrible. It was to be exactly how it was with the original Surface book 2 launch minus the bugs (henceforth why the extended time to launch is also a bonus). It was to be a wow product that is launched already feature complete and with a smooth and bug free (in the realm of possibility) experience. Otherwise the impact will be lost and by the time the product is actually good people would have already forgotten about it.
  • They should make a vídeo like they did with Surface Hub 2 and release it when it's ready. Kill it is the easiest to do, but I do hope Microsoft don't lose again in a brand new mobile market
  • Thank you for the information but I think the 2019 is just disaffirmation surprise everybody In October.
  • I am with you KJW3...it could be a surprise in October.
  • Yeah, that would be great. My Mi Mix 2 is only 4 month old (and quite good compared to other Crapdroids i tried before) but i would sell it in an instant to get a non-frustiating mobile experience.
  • Take a Surface GO, slap on the new-fangled hinge, Adjust the UI, and I'm good. Ok, I'm aware it takes more than this...
  • Yep. Gotta design the packaging too remember. At least, with MS, there's no time needed for advertising development.
  • they did Surface GO because they have to... it's few years late to market! Couple of years ago, apple and microsoft watched in horror as ChromeOS took almost 50% of the education market squeezing them out Two years later apple came up with a cheap iPad to counter google in the education market and now finally microsoft is reacting to Apples late reaction by releasing Surface GO!
  • I think the Surface Go's success or failure will determine the direction of Andromeda. Andromeda will be closer in size to the Go when open as dual screen but it would most likely have a more usable touch interface. The current version of Windows 10's tablet mode is just awful and unusable compared to Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 mobile. I think Andromeda has been pushed back because touch and pen functionality in addition to the lack of PWA development doesn't make this device viable yet. A pocket version of Windows will need to have the usability interface of a phone/tablet and the basic functionality of Windows. By doing this, whatever UI Microsoft comes up with Andromeda, it will change the way Tablet mode will work on desktops, laptops and tablets.
  • LOL, if apps haven't happened yet, they aren't ever going to.
  • As a web and mobile app developer, I can assure you that PWA's are getting tremendous attention in my field of work. The potential PWA's have for flattening the code base, allowing devs to target one very familiar framework for all platforms is extremely appealing. This is especially true for the sort of stuff I specialize in (i.e. business oriented applications). I get it that certain types of games, apps delivering certain types of multi-media, etc. have specific 3rd party dependencies, that call for platform specific (i.e. IOS, Android) implementations. But, for a great many commonly used apps (i.e. Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, Snapchat, budgeting apps, task management apps, etc.) eventually going the PWA route makes so much sense it is almost the only way to go (especially now that Apple is increasing PWA support in WebKit).
  • Thanks for your perspective. I own a small business and I've been unable to join the app world due to the expense of developing multiple apps for the various platforms (mobile, tablet, and desktop). I've been tempted to go from my Idol S4 (after 2 yrs w/ 950) to Android in order to pick up a single app that would be useful (Comcast Biz), but I can live without it, especially since it won't change anything other than that one app access on one device. My business "app" needs are satisfied via our websites, but a single PWA that makes it into the various "stores" would increase our existing client outreach a hundredfold and make the marketing side a game changer. I hope you're right -- and I hope my little example of how it would benefit one small business spurs you onward!
  • Oh, man.. It's always something.
  • Now Samsung is going to beat them with a single folding display in early 2019. It will immediately make Andromeda look obsolete. No way they release this device after Samsung unveils their true folding phone. By late 2019, Samsung will supposedly have the mainstream second generation ready to go. It will make Microsoft's job seemingly impossible unless they have some truly magical interface. I bet Microsoft still uses the Andromeda design, but it will be dual 8" or 10" screens with Intel processors. It will use a full version of Windows 10 with some new interfaces. That is my prediction.
  • All in time for competition but it seems Apple is the one lagging behind, they are launching something similar in 2020. I have no doubt this Surface Ultramobile PC will shine no matter what Samsung has to offer. You'll see.
  • The Zune shined too. Being early matters.
  • Two separate screens will not be impressive next to a single folding screen. Not at all. We already have dual screen folding phones. It isn't a very useful form factor.
  • There used to be an old commercial that read "There'll be no wine before its time".
    Looks like that's where we are.
    Sad, but I understand.
    What I don't understand is Microsoft's exit from the mobile/phone arena.
    They could and should have kept W10M alive until Andromeda was ready.
    It's not just about profits.
    Loyal customers are important.
    Too many self serving egos can really spoil a company.
  • They decided to allocate the W10M team towards Android/iOS smartphones. MSFT figured that they would never have built significant market share. I think MSFT felt they could gain more smartphone users adopting office/outlook/cortana on these platforms than trying to pull people out of iOS/Android and into W10M.
  • With a new product you don't target everyone. You target the early adopters. The people willing to take a risk on your product. They will be the ones who show off the device to the skeptical mainstream. The skeptical mainstream will ask questions, see it in action and if it works for them, then they will buy your product also. You have a success.
    Windows phone never made it past the early adopter stage. Microsoft then made the next step far more difficult for themselves because they burned a large part of their early adopters by abandoning them. These early adopters are much more skeptical now, and winning them back will be difficult.
  • Regardless of the number of slick never-before-seen features, whether it's inking or dual screen or camera related, it needs to be a true pocket PC that can double as a phone for it to have enough immediate success that MS doesn't pull the plug. I don't think most people want to carry around an additional device but if they can replace a laptop/tablet and a phone, then MS is onto something. That means good Win32 support (despite Zac's and Dan's personal crusades to rid the world of it), good "traditional" input (touch/keyboard/mouse), and good smartphone functionality (apps however they get there, decent camera, telephony, good battery life). Anything short of that will probably be DOA. Consumers, all types including business, won't understand how it's supposed to fit into their lifestyle and MS probably won't be patient like they were with Surface and give it 3+ iterations to find its footing.
  • If it is a Windows 10 device, you should be able to connect to a hub/bluetooth for keyboard/mouse/display. Surface Go LTE is the mobile Win32 compatible productivity device. Does anyone know when I can respond to a text that pops up on my PC?
  • I have been answering calls and texts on Windows using Google Voice. That has been available for years. Why wait for another half baked Microsoft service?
  • I'd be so happy to pay for skype if I could port in my number and have it do the forwarding magic google voice does. We read people here complain about MS killing products. I'm terrified Google will kill off Google Voice, just like google reader, google notebook, igoogle, discussion search, etc. Do that forwarding thing along side VOIP, bundle it with O365 and I'm in. Want me to buy a cortana speaker? LOL. No. Mix a 'smart speaker' with something like an Obi200 that works with Skype and you'll have my attention.
  • Unless the Go has telephony, transforms into a usable form factor for calls, and uses an ARM chip or Intel cooks up something special for battery life, then it's simply a smaller always connect 2-in-1. While pretty cool, not the same thing
  • Agree with this.
  • I reply to my texts all the time on my computer through Cortana. Can't start a text there though.
  • Good summary, Zac. I do think this approach is going to bite MS though...they'll keep iterating internally and in the meantime, someone will beat them to the punch with a similar device that is 'good enough', followed by yearly model updates that improve on the initial base device, and the next thing we know, MS will throw in the towel on Andromeda because "someone else has already captured the new market."
  • Considering the troubles that Google is having with the EU for antitrust practices with Android, I wonder if part of Andromeda's delay is related in any way. Does this mean Android's replacement called Fuschia has ramped up development making Android antiquated a lot sooner than later? If so, would Andromeda's delay could cause another race to catch up to Google's offering down the line since the current competition is basically Android!?! Apple is already trying to position iOs as a Mac Os replacement and Chrome will be fully support Android apps soon, That will leave Microsoft's only advantage of shoehorning Windows into a mobile platform a bit far behind the competition.
  • Like i said before, MS has to get this right on the first take; it's frustrating for us forward thinking, open-minded enthusiasts who see the possibilities. But at least we were given some solace in the fact that the OS is the issue and that they are working to refine it and the app situation.
    And speaking of apps, i think people are way too hung up on apps as it is. Technically, most people only use up to 12 apps (not games) to all, regardless of how many they download. Making sure the big names are represented is important lest we forget many smart devices launched without app stores in the first place. Apps fill in gaps that the OS doesn't handle by default. Full Windows 10 will satisfy legacy demands; PWA and UWP should, in theory, fill in the mobile apps somewhat.
    This device has to make sense to be built. It has been built so it makes sense to a number of people already. It has to be performant; the newest SnapDragon chips should help move that needle.
    It should support e-sims out of the box; this is dependant on carriers. It should be 5G ready - while this is dependant on carriers, the Qualcomm modems are ready now.
    It needs to be Office friendly and supported - with cloud sync in Office (mobile) apps and One Note/Todo gaining traction, this is getting compelling.
    The gotcha would be either: wooing Android developers to UWP/PWA (see the 95/5 split now as an incentive) OR incorporating a modern day BlueStacks to run Android apps (mostly just java anyway) natively or emulated as part of the CoreOS.
    Imagine your 'vital' Android apps on the device you can do real work on!
  • Not sure about your use, but I struggle to do "real work" on the small Surfacebook screen. Dual 6" screens with no keyboard, trackpad, or native Windows apps will make it nearly impossible. You won't be able to do anything not already possible on Android or iOS. Pointless device, Nadella is right.
  • The preferrable input source of Andromeda isn't keyboard/mouse/trackpad, it's digital ink. Why do you think Microsoft is investing in ink to text support in Windows' text boxes?
  • Inking flat out sucks. It is handy to sign a document on the rare occasion, but it isn't a viable input method for Windows. Just an auxiliary feature. Maybe you have data that says otherwise, but it certainly doesn't seem like a popular feature.
  • Meanwhile the mobile market continues to innovate, and a number of other manufacturers (Samsung, Huawei, Lenovo) are expected to release dual screen Android handsets this fall. Time is not in Microsoft's favor.
  • Samsung is not releasing a dual screen device as far as I have heard. Their's will be a single folding screen, making Microsoft's dual screens obsolete.
  • There is one difference now that we didn't have before and that is Surface Go, a proper, windows 10" tablet. Theoretically speaking if both of andromeda screens are 5" so opened up it will be an approx 10" tablet. So this way with the Surface Go they can optimise the tablet UX, which has been lacking in Windows 10 for awhile. It's gotten marginally better but it's still lacking. Also another factor in play is Charlotte Yarkoni, she is the Vp of growth and ecosystem. By Build 2018 she was at Microsoft for a few months and the developer sessions were more UWP focused compared to previous years. I wish Microsoft had focus on UWP alot more back then. We wouldn't be discussing the app gap if they did. Never the less these two new factors need to be taken into account. So If Andromeda is delayed so we get a more polished product and we avoid a 950 / 950XL launch fiasco then I'm all for it. If it turns out to be just lip service... all I'll say there aren't enough swear words in the dictionary 🤣😂 to be able to convey my frustration.
  • Two 5" screens do not make a 10" screen.
  • @bub78.
    Really? If you half a 10" screen what do you get? Or 10 divided by 2. I'll wait. Screen size in this context is measured diagonally. The simplest example is a book. Top left corner to book spine (bottom right) + top right to book spine (bottom left). Plus I did say approx 😶.
  • Right, measured diagonally. When you put two 5" rectangles (diagonally measured) side by side, the new diagonal measurement is not going to be 1 to 1. Look at the Axon M. Two 5.2" screens become a single 6.8" screen. You are definitely wrong here. To make a single 10" screen, it will take dual 8" screens depending on the ratio.
  • I disagree. The axon m doesn't become a single 6.8" screen. It would be completely out of porportion.
  • ZTE disagrees with you: "Two identical Full HD screens combine to give you a stunning 6.75" tablet-like display. This Extended Mode lets you play games or watch your favorite shows on a larger screen, when and where you want to." https://www.zteusa.com/axonm/
  • @bleached. As that indeed what ZTE has said on their website. I have no qualms in admitting when I have made a mistake about what I said about the AxonM. However I still question their methdology.
  • The ratio fully opened would most likely still be 3:2 and that's if the Surface team makes a device. Andromeda is starting to sound less likely a Surface specific device but another platform that oems will have a license to make their own offering. A 3:2 ratio would be able to fit the 18:9 ratio when folded that popular flagships have now.
  • If you want to say an 8" screen is roughly the same size as an 10" screen. Otherwise, no.
  • "If you half a 10" screen what do you get?" You get a 7" screen. "Or 10 divided by 2." No. It does not work that way. "I'll wait." I will wait for you to test this. Take ANY screen you have handy. Measure it. Divide it in half horizontally. Then measure that half diagonally. Half of a 24" screen is 16.5". Get it yet? Its even worse if you halve the screen vertically. A 10" screen becomes an 8.75 inch screen folded in half along the long axis. The 24" screen becomes about 21" when folded vertically.
  • Yay! a mathematics lesson just what I was waiting for - I wasn't bothered to do mathematics after a long day haha. I guess none of you considered what the average joe would do? They would take a device and overlay ontop of the Surface Go and say it's a 10". To sell the average joe on a idea, you need to get them imagining how it would work and benefit them. So relax, also see Brian Mueller's comments.
  • (Deleted unnecessary comment.)
  • Thats not how it works. "There is one difference now that we didn't have before and that is Surface Go, a proper, windows 10" tablet. Theoretically speaking if both of andromeda screens are 5" so opened up it will be an approx 10" tablet." see screensize with too screens put together link: https://imgur.com/a/OD99kBH Bonus info: This size is from one of their patents. So they also had this size in mind!!!
  • I said approx and you need to take into account porportions and how screen size is measured (diagnally). Since it's like a book, so half and half.
  • My phone is about 5.6" x 2.8". Pretending it was a bezel-less display it would be a 6.2" screen. If 2 of them were slapped together it would be 5.6" x 5.6". Using 7th grade math we find the diagonal is about a 7.9" screen, again without bezels. This is a dumb thing to argue over. It's the Pythagorean theorem ffs.
  • Maybe MS will use the 3:2 ratio like they do on the rest of their surface line. a 10" device with no bezel would be around 8.34 x 5.56 inches when unfolded. Folded would be 5.56 by 4.17 which would 6.95" device but would be a weird aspect ratio
  • And also 4+ is way too wide to use one-handed comfortably so using it folded becomes fairly pointless & sort of negates the purpose of folding it..
  • Of course they could use the ISO A4 paper standard as the size. It is designed to be folded in half and retain the same ratio. So folding an A4 paper in half would give you an A5. I think the ratio is 1: 1.618. An A4 sheet 8.27 x 11.69 or a 14.32 diagonal. Folded in half would give you an 8.27 x 5.85 or a 10.13 diagonal. or an A6 which would halve it again 5.85 x 4.135 for a 7.16 diagonal. The last two seem to be the best combination, but that would still be a pretty big mobile device. Maybe they will start somewhere less than A5 then fold that in half to something that is closer to 6" diagonal.
  • Good thinking
  • @Brian Mueller. Thank you.
  • @bub78. I'm not arguing over it, you're the one who has the issue here bub78. There is more than one why to look at things. In this context, it's not about mathematics but selling an idea. To do so you keep it simple, why do you think I kept refering to it as a "book" and used book as an example. The average joe does not give two hoots about pythagoras theorem lol. So relax :)
  • You think Microsoft should sell an idea that is mathematically impossible? If you read Mueller's comment above, the screen would need to be 7" to unfold to 10" and that is at 3:2, a weird ratio for a phone.
  • And way too big to be useable. Tired of reading comments about a 9" or 10" folding screen that'll just magically be pocketable. Try fitting a 5.5 x 4.2 inch device in your pocket & see how comfortable that is. So dumb. If they're looking at 2 folding screens on a hinge & still be useable with one hand & pocket friendly you're getting a 6 to 7 inch device total. Probably one of the reasons they canned the thing.
  • Thanks for the excellent summary. I am of the opinion that waiting is fine. Everyone worried about someone else coming first should chill a bit. Was the iPhone the first touchscreen phone? Did it have an app store when it launched? The answer to both is no. I don't mean to draw a false equivalency, but if the experience is right it will have a market regardless.
  • I thought iTunes was the app store for the iPhone. Once iPhone was a thing, developers built Apps and could sell through the iTunes store (the software that hosted songs could host apps and the payment system could acept payments and distrbute royalties).
  • Jobs thought the iPhone would just use web apps. They didn't add the app store until later. Web apps weren't ready at the time.
  • Most people were on basic phones then (from what I've heard, especially in America), iPhone added to that experience without taking anything away (especially 2nd gen). What does Andromeda add, and what does it take away compared to what people are using today?
  • You're comparing a product with a fully known feature set to a product that we all know next to nothing about. That question cannot be answered fairly so why ask. If you're trying to make a point, is moot
  • MS may have already missed the boat on this what with all of the android army coming out with like devices very soon. I recently had to give up my 950 and got a note 8 and can tell you the Android at least in the Samsung iteration is a complete pos. Maybe if I was Bozo but it jeez … Gotta say though that the hardware is stellar and being able to write notes again ( Gee, just like my Jornada did in the 90's) is great but that Android Circus look is for the boids. Anyway I need this device badly and if MS screws it up again I'm just gonna be done ….
  • Android on the Motorolla is POS too.
  • It's Ms. Of course they already screwed it up. This whole modern Life initiative does nothing but show how out of touch they are bc it's nothing new. It's literally what the surface and windows 10 project was aiming to be from the getgo
  • Samsung's single screen folding device is supposedly coming early next year, so this will seem low rent with dual screens. They need to get it out now while they still have a chance. It will be very tough gaining traction next to Samsungs superior hardware and ecosystem.
  • Apple not too far behind as well
  • 2020 if rumors are to believed.
  • Yes, 2020 it is.
  • I think a delay is a good thing. It allows MS room to fine tune before its release. Unfortunately if you are a windows fan or you are totally bored with the grid style display as with Iphone and Android, not to mention the over maturation of their form factor, well it kinda sucks. That being said, remember "Good things come to those who wait," but also remember, "The early bird gets the worm"
    Choose wisely Microsoft.
  • For Ms, it's more, "the beast who missed the boat, drowns in the flood"
  • Here's how this will go: delayed to improve the experience -> sent back to the design board -> re-evaluation of the potential market for it -> cancelled. The delay was last year. It's on stage 2 now. Don't get too attached to the idea of this ever coming out.
  • Especially after Samsung unveils their true folding device. This will be cancelled within a week.
  • This also gives them time to include 5G compatibility. Does it have to be an ARM device? What if Intel gets 10 nm up and going by the end of the year and they can produce a suitable SoC? I doubt that will happen. However, Intel is putting a lot of resources into 5G to compete in the mobile modem world. This would include more chip to build out the Carrier's infrastructure.
  • Intel 10 nm? LOL. Intel is starting to become Microsoft. Nothing but delays.
  • I wouldn't expect Intel's 10nm mass production until late next year at the earliest.
  • Wintel = wizard's mj. Just too slow to compete as the young mj
  • The delay could result in a better product but it then runs the risk of being less relevant. If a good foldable Android or, heaven forbid, Apple device comes out in the interim Microsoft will once again have missed the boat. Or jumped off after buying the cruise line.
  • Thanks Zac, I've been hoping for one of your more calm and rational takes on the recent spate of rumors. I respect Mary Jo, but thought it was odd she had the story of Andromeda being cancelled. That isn't her usual area of expertise. It is also no surprise that the new leadership of Windows and MS devices post Myerson would want to take a look at everything in the pipeline. I'm not too concerned about another company coming out with a two-screen device first. If it is Samsung, it will look nice but run poorly. Next year, there will still be opportunities for sales to me and other fans but also to education and corporate markets if the device can run device management software and control Surface Hub and other displays and do some general computer apps as well.
  • Samsung's will have a single folding display, immediately making Andromeda seem obsolete.
  • Incorrect. The software can be moved to the same form factor as single screen folding device.
  • Yes, but that isn't Andromeda and Microsoft doesn't have the technology to make a folding display. They will be dependent on LG or Samsung deciding when they sell it to them.
  • And that is different from what exactly? Most oems buy screens and parts from somewhere else.
  • It means Microsoft will not have access to a folding screen as quickly. Samsung doesn't sell their best screens, they save them for their own devices and sell the previous iteration. LG might sell theirs, but who knows when that is ready and Microsoft will likely be competing with Apple and everyone else to buy them.
  • And Samsung doesn't have the ability to put out a device without bloat and that gets worse the more you use it.
  • Doesn't affect sales at all. I always felt the same way, but my GS8 is almost a year old with no issue at all. Samsung's bloat is easily removed or disabled. Android lets you set defaults so it really doesn't matter anyways. It doesn't seem to be hurting Samsung at all.
  • I haven't had an Android device yet that setting the defaults actually did anything. It still asks me every f'n time. I'm about to root and flash my current device with a custom rom to see if my current device will behave better as it is barely useable as is. Very frustrated with Android at the moment.
  • Sounds like you need a simpler device. iPhones are very nice and locked down like Windows phone. They will probably work better for you, just use the Apple defaults.
  • That's funny... I've had the S7 and the S9 and none of them fit that description.
    The only bloatware I found on them that I couldn't uninstall was from Google itself (and in smaller number than on stock Android phones) and... From Microsoft. And the phones never lagged either. So... Try again.
  • It's an LG display if the Panos' tweet was hinting.
  • Not a folding display. Samsung will immediately make this device seem dated when they release their folding display early next year.
  • Yeah, because there can only be one type of foldable device and one market for such a device. We'll see.
  • For phones and tablets, which a folding device will be, there are two markets. Android and iOS. There is no room for Microsoft unless they have something revolutionary enough to make up for the lack of ecosystem.
  • Mjf never said it was cancelled. She was as right as Zac.
  • Wow they really dropped the ball on this one. Samsung is rumored to bring out a foldable device next year and Apple around 2020 to 2021. Both of them with big established ecosystems. They really need to be first on this one.
  • I want this. More than I probably should. But "When it's ready" will be too late. HoloLens still isn't "ready" and devs have been working with it for years now.
    Samsung will be to market with their foldable device by early next year. Once Microsoft misses the "We did it first" window, they'll face an uphill battle that I personally don't feel Satya Nadella has the testicular fortitude to fight.
    They could forgo a lot of this by simply adding telephony services to Windows 10 now. At least let the OEMs try to beat Samsung to market. Hell Samsung might even make a Windows version of their device.
  • "Microsoft pushed back Andromeda's release to give itself more time to perfect the hardware and software."
    Excuses...excuses...Blah, Blah, Blah...Since when new Microsoft products are perfect! That never happens... Microsoft can easily assign Insiders to test the hardware and software on this device.
    "It'll be ready when it's ready."
    Readiness would depend on the Insiders not Microsoft!
    "We also still don't really know who this device is going to be for, and that's because we don't know its full feature-set yet"
    You know who will tell what this device is for? Samsung!!!
    Both Samsung and Microsoft started making their own foldable device in 2016...Samsung is set to introduce theirs at 2019 CES. Microsoft??? Still in the mud!!! Samsung would end up leading the market on foldable device!!!
  • Samsung has several inherent advantages in the space. Mature ecosystem, developed & customizable OS, excellent mindshare & customer base, complete top to bottom in-house engineering & manufacturing capabilities, etc. Microsoft doesn't really have most of those things, so they'll always be at a disadvantage until market conditions change substantially. That likely accounts for the very niche category MS wanted to slot their product into, an electronic journal based on stylus input. No one really makes a product like that, probably because no demand has been demonstrated for such a device.
  • Apple has exactly ZERO manufacturing capability. They make nothing, and yet they are very competitive.
  • Apple is very profitable, not very competitive. If you look at their marketshare, it's miserable. But because their products are so overpriced and cater to a loyal brainless niche of people, they make profits that catapult them to relevancy. The fact that Samsung can beat them in sales while using a platform that has fierce competition while Apple needs to have no competition to exist, tells you a lot about them ;)
  • Apple has also steadily increased their hardware design teams since before the first iPhone. While they don't have manufacturing capability, they do quite a bit of focused R&D and fund their partners to do the same (e.g. iPhone X's display, suddenly everyone has one).
  • Any company (say, the Finnish Nokia, -had) can and will have many inside protypes
    then the so-called "journalists" make their living on speculating with this information.
    A load of posts follows. Right on target again! Haters, fanboys, trolls, etc.
    Even I'm here checking this Surface PHONE conversation - for fun! :-)
    Excellent article - a lot of opinions - not so much truth. :-(
    But, hey! This is internet and a forum for opinions with FEELINGS.
  • The horse is dead. Dismount.
  • Panos interview on Wired, asked about the Surface phonish device: https://www.wired.com/2018/07/gadget-lab-podcast-367/
  • Must listen!!!!! Thx for sharing
  • Perhaps MS are waiting to see if anyone actually WANTS such a device before commiting
  • Too little, too late. Microsoft may be making a lot of money as a business but in reality it is also a service provider. A utility if you like. A lot of people trusted and depended on services provided by Microsoft. A glaring one being Windows phones. A less obvious, but still for many, critical one being Microsoft Money. In its search for the last buck Microsoft has destroyed the trust of many of those once loyal to it. Infuriating then on the way. So, they might as well kill Andromeda now. Why invest a lot of our money in something that after a while they will again fail to support? Why trust a company that will always put the short term bottom line before the long term loyalty of the user?
  • I personally like the approach they took with HoloLens, give developers and companies time with it before widespread release. Don't make a lot of them but yes, please make sure it works and take the time to do that.
  • The chance of success for this device just keeps going down. All I wanted from them was a phone powerful enough to meet my computing needs. They're making it too complicated. Adding a second screen is not the solution...though the OS they're making would be key. Adding a second screen will either make it too bulky and expensive for just about anyone to buy. If it's not too bulky and expensive, then they probably cut out important features that will be a deal breaker. We wanted a Surface Phone. https://1drv.ms/f/s!AkvPDhcgltfHi5IUht-SPES2--fcgg
  • I would agree with you there. I think they should still make Andromeda device, but also make a slate device that supports pen and telephony and make it 7" at 3 - 2 ratio (like the rest of the surface line) That would be my ideal device.
  • What's going on with Andromeda? Nadella is going on with Andromeda. A consumer oriented device from Nadellasoft? That would surely get Nadella's pants in a twist!
  • Put your finger on the ms problem ... Nutty nadella.
  • Not sure about anything that happens around that...
    I am user of Windows powered devices since Benq Siemiens, through Dell Venue Pro, and a few Lumias 9xx series...
    I am waiting and waiting for replacement of L950xl. I don't get at all, that is so hard to tailor Windows to new/old ARM processor line ('MSFT SDEs - do still keep MIPS refernces in the code base?) and optimize two screen support an d rotation.
    Lack of apps is not that big problem (at least to me). I still use L950xl and I could find all I need. I don't need millions of crappy apps. I need stable Office pack, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp, Skype (business + personal) and a few niche ones. Is that much? I don't think so. Backward compatibility should solve the problem. Just don't say that you stop support for the reason. I saw the online petition on change.org with more than 16K supporters. MSFT, what else do you need? MSFT doesn't need crowdfunding campaign to release first device. You can have pre-sale (even half year before actual release) that several people would pay without knowing the product (including me), or you can replicate HoloLens path with sharing devices (I would buy even DevMode one for my daily use). Zac - please pass my message using your channels - Guys - finish the device, price it just to not to make MSFT burn too much cash (even if it is around 1K USD per one). Most people expect it to be solid (like entire Surface line), pocket Windows device with multiple screens and telephony. Nothing more, nothing less. Sooner you release it, quicker you will get feedback for improvements for later releases.
  • Is PWA better then UPW? Noob question here, sorry.
  • Depends on what you mean by "better" but the short answer from Microsoft's perspective is yes. PWAs run in the browser but feel like native apps. Check out this for a good summary: https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2018/03/09/why-progressiv...
  • I run PWA version of apps on my Android because they are more stable than the Android versions.
  • Of which apps and how?
  • Another ms fail, hopeless.
  • Great article Zac, we'll done. I think MS is on track. Andromeda will be great!!! In the mean time my HP X3 will hold out.
  • .. And my 950 xl
  • Well... if no legacy Win32 support, then I will have to wait for the crowd sourced GPD Pocket or One Mix Yoga to incorporate telephony. Microsoft can not just wish Win32 away. Support it until UWP/PWA has every business app.
  • Supposedly it still has Win32, it is just not native and it runs in a container.
  • Right, Brian! Thank you!
  • That would be good. I was just going off of what the original article said. "No legacy support". But now it seems to say "no legacy UI's". I could have read it wrong, or the article could have changed. I am not sure.
  • I am mostly concerned about the CoreOS...what precisely is missing in CoreOS? If they thinking about removing Win32 they can keep their device....thanks.
  • It doesn't have win32, that is part of the reason they postponed it.
  • After all these articles about how W10 was going to be a unified OS & just have a different UI depending on device, and UWP, & how this was such a superior idea as compared to Apple & Google who have separate desktop & mobile OS's... Now MS redesigning Windows to basically be a different OS for mobile than desktop... Just surreal.
  • CoreOS is more what w10 was supposed to be then classic w10
  • It supposedly still has win32, it is just not native part of the OS and will be running in a container.
  • MVP - minimal viable product...then iterations.. or is thing never going to...wait for it...."Surface"... tee hee...
  • Thanks Zac, for whatever reason the way you articulated this puts me at ease. And I really need my frustration curbed at the moment, what with the prospect of cancellation and all..
  • Guys, Guys, Guys...Relax. It's already released and the second version is being readied now. GPD. Small pocketable device running full windows 10. The second version is thinner, has more ports, and is faster. It's awesome!
  • I wish they made a pure tablet device with Telephony and pen capability. I would buy it in a second.
  • The "telephoney" will not come, but I am willing to bet stylus capability will come to the device. Just use a real phone and the GPD. Problem solved.
  • Well but the GPD is using a lousy Atom SoC...I am not going to buy outdated technology in particular since now Windows on ARM is available, which makes it possible to actually put a fast and efficient SoC in such small devices.
    This argument holds even more when the plan is to keep the device in standby for telephony
  • Am I the only one who is wondering why they need a new OS? Why a new Andromeda OS when you have Windows on ARM? Why spend so much time trying to maintain a new OS for such a niche device? All that time and effort is delaying the release and not adding much. Seems easier just to take the Windows on ARM and use that? Bloat? 64GB is storage and 2GB of RAM will happily run it. Spend the time adding telephony and other features to WoA. Even if Andromeda fails, at least all those features come to WoA tablets. It would also mean Win32 emulation, multiple monitors, device support, etc. Less to maintain in the future. Less risk if the device (hardware wise) fails. Gets it to the market sooner.
  • My guess is the high memory foot print of windows (and windows programs). Cheap Android tablets often have 16 - 32gb of memory. Windows tablets with even 64gb is still kind of pushing the limit. I even feel stifled with 256mb on a windows machine. So if they can trim the fat, then mobile form factors become more plausible.
  • Also with a high memory footprint, the amount of cpu cycles is higher to move data in and out of ram. Or you have alot more ram but that also increases the power draw.
    Lower cpu cycles + lower memory foot print = less ram required = lower power draw overall = better battery life and code efficiency also increases battery life. Since battery tech has been relatively static in terms of progress compared to other components. Efficiency and Optimisations are the only other methods to increase battery life and increase charge to charge times. The other added benefits is the charge cycles of a battery and the durability of a port aren't eaten up as quickly. Not to mention higher charge to charge times also means less frequent charging which reduces the environmental impact and strain on electrical infrastructure. As we are nowhere near displacing fossil fuels completely with renewable energy (yet).
  • I take exception to you Microsoft Pressers saying that you find it hard to understand who would be the target audience for Andromeda (Paul Thurrott, Mary Jo Foley, Daniel Rubino and you Zac). If I had a pocketable device that folded out into a tablet that had a great docking station and Continuum, it just might be the perfect device and I could replace my phone and my PC and have all of my computing power in my pocket with me wherever I go. If I could also have a micro SD card for local storage and my 1TB of storage courtesy of Office 365, it would be THE Ultimate Mobile device. Hopefully the camera would still kill (like my 950 XL). To question who would buy such a device is absurd in my opinion.
  • I agree but it's not absurd to pose a question as no one knows everything. Plus it's hard for most to see beyond their own use cases.
  • Seriously, I just want a 6 - 7" slate device with WoA, Pen Support, a great Camera, very little bezel and better tablet mode (or phone mode) It doesn't have to be some engineering marvel.
  • What about LTE and always on connectivity? 😉
  • You and six other people. Such a device has no chance of being successful. None. Microsoft knows this, that is why they haven't made one.
  • Really looking forward to Andromeda. The delays are a bit frustrating, however if the delays are going to produce a significantly better product than originally thought then fantastic.
    With these type of delays the expectations only rise.
    The delay also allows competitors to catch up.
    A part of me simply wants them to release it so I can play with it and test it. Then improvement updates can be released along the way. I'm sure a lot of others would not agree with this though. Also PWA's are a great way to close the app Gap. Ensure the big apps are covered: WhatsApp, Instagram, Twitter (already done), Facebook, etc.
  • I tried messenger from facebook in this days and now works very nice, was a surprise not like facebook app :(
  • Snapchat from the iPhone???
  • PWAs are a great way for ChromeOS to close the app gap too. Windows losing native development is a bad thing for Microsoft. PWA is Google's trojan horse.
  • There should be requirements for a minimally viable Windows Core OS and Andromeda OS. Version 1.0 does not need to be a grand slam; just need to get on first base. If the minimally viable set of features are buggy, then they need to delay. They should not delay to get features above the minimal set. They should not delay because of lack of apps. Right now Microsoft is in a pickle about apps. UWP has not caught on with PC because win32 apps work on all versions of Windows, while UWP only work with Windows 10. The UWP apps are going to take time. PWA will take time too. But Andromeda should be able to run websites fine. By getting the device out there, it provides the reason to develop apps. Microsoft will have to be patient.
  • Oh, I wanted to add. I'm assuming Andromeda can run PC UWP apps, and should work fine provided a layout for phone screen is available. If that is not the case, and Andromeda can only run Andromeda UWP apps, then they need to get Andromeda to run PC UWP apps.
  • Im soooo sick of Microsoft dropping the ball. Release something before others for once. At this pace Samsung will beat them to the punch again with a similar device. I only kept office 365 for andromeda. As soon as download my files from the stupid cloud im done
  • Here on vacation in Vegas this week, and I've been informed through general conversation that a Surface phone device, if released will be Android based. Pretty disappointing but not entirely suprising.
  • Well, given the fact that Samsung announced new folding screen device for 2019, this Microsoft effort will be too late and completely useless. But that is tradition of Microsoft I guess. I jumped from my Lumia 950 to GalaxyS9+ there is nothing that would be able to bring me back to Microsoft whatever Andromeda or anything, because of horrid attitude towards loyal customers. Yes new foldable Samsung device will be in range of 1500 USD and I will certainly give it a try. Never back to Microsoft devices.
  • Hurry up!! 😁
  • I want a good device, so if we look on windows state it needs more apps and a stable OS with less bugs and ramdom problems than W10M. I prefer wait.
  • Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Death is death, whether before release or after release the difference is how much money you spend getting there. A million here, a million there developing stuff in a company the size of Microsoft is not a big deal (drip, drip, drip). Launching a flop is like exploding your Falcon Heavy rocket on the pad, very impressive in all the wrong ways. Get it right, and even of it's not 100% it will fly but the difference between catastrophic explosion and takeoff may not be that great although you hope there is. There's also a launch window, hit the launch window at the right time, you're good; wrong time and you might crash anyway.
  • When will humans be born with phones already attached to ears?
  • I think the Andromeda device could debut in September 2019 if Microsoft uses it's
    new Windows 10 on ARMs CPU software and the Qualcomm Snapdragon 1000 CPU
    it's device Ecosystem would be full Windows Desktop PC x86/win32 programs and
    the Microsoft store Apps including the new Progressive web apps(PWA). Andromeda
    devices would be very useful to people but they would need to use
    "Continuum" software to use the x86/win32 desktop programs it would run
    in emulation.
  • You seems to understand that there is no Surface PHONE.
    A Z-folding Tablet wit added 64bit support would make my business day.
    1900 USD souns reasonable. SDM1000 chipset, 7nm, 12W, is okay.
    Phone functionality? That would add the value if the "front" is a "phone"
    the the unfolded full device on a dock could be my laptop/tablet combo.
    Go for it, Microsoft! - Fans with hope of a cheap Lumia clone: you may cry...
  • You are ok with a laptop with no keyboard or trackpad and an 8" screen? Andromeda will not replace laptops.
  • That's correct, Andromeda OS will be a brand new lightweight mobile software, probably it will never emulate x64 or x86 software, since that's not it purpose.
  • Qualcom Snapdragon 1000 CPU is a laptop processor. You can't put it in the phone case. Well maybe if people never pick up their phone so it can be overly hot then who can tell? This a new device category! ;)
  • What they need is presence in mobile and wearable space. I miss what they made(band) and even what they did not(action cameras, cheap AR/VR headset).
    If its about andromeda, they should announce it and bring up preorders, that's something I would love, and for sure it would help as feedback, what fans/users think about this device.
  • Thanks Zac for finally making sense out of all this confusion
  • Thanks Zac for finally making sense out of all this confusion
  • This means that by the time they might decide to launch this device, Samsung will already have one on the market (Galaxy X).
    Also expect Apple to "invent" this device and "revolutionise" everything "again", after Samsung ships their own. (eg, https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-patents-rival-to-samsung-galaxy-x)
  • Finally this article made it official, Microsoft is working on a Mobile OS called Andromeda OS. The questions are will this be compatible with iOS apps or Android apps.
  • FYI, this site is not affiliated with Microsoft in any way, so it is as official as your comment above. Ok they probably have better sources, but in the best case it is just some information leaked by some employee, which is not necessarily what management thinks. And to answer your question, no at least that's well known it can't be compatible with iOS and while in theory it can be compatible with Android it will lead to so many problems that it is simply not a good idea. If Microsoft wants to rely on Android apps it should release Android phone, as simple as that.
  • I hope that Microsoft has a rigorous quality assurance procedure in place before putting them on the market. I owned the Band II and was very disappointed with it started to fray after seven months. I will wait several months before buying one.
  • This is more than just about Andromeda. It is all about the future of Window 10s. Specifically Core OS, cShell, PWAs and UWP's. If they screw this up on a flagship product like Andromeda then it will negatively affect the future development of Windows 10. Get these sorted here and we will see Core OS roll out on a much wider hardware base.
  • Okay, if this is true, the hardware is gonna be awsome. They had more than enough time to polish it from every which angle. The software clearly is lagging behind a year now, and probably will still lack many features one year from now. By then the hardware will be outdated and killed by competitors, and releasing it in a competitor space once again with a still-failing-to-deliver software environment, it will fail big time. Although I see the picture. Microsoft will have the same Store for this device that it has for Desktop and tablet. So they need the apps in the Store as well. They need to shrink their shipped form factors step by step. This year it's the Go, and hopefully it will attract some apps of a more portable/mobile type bringing this segment of the Store alive before shipping Andromeda. (but "of course" Andromeda will be Enterprise focused, and who is to admit that Microsoft failed to pull it together even in its own Office suite?)
  • There's just something about that Palm Treo that leaves me wanting something like that again. Give me that and Windows 10 Core and Office products. Maybe Twitter and a handful of others and DONE.
  • Would be nice if MSFT can pull an Andromeda device off.
    I'd rather have a well polished device than half baked.
    I hope it is a more tablet centric UI with the next generation of live tiles and vastly improved use of windows ink baked into the OS as part of an inline natural pen and paper feel and ink-to-text conversion software and OCR.
    I expect it to support telephony and gps and a high end camera with the lumia 1020 as a benchmark. I think it would be a value to use in the medical field and as a consumer device.
  • When/if the device is being released we can talk about what is going on. Until then I simply look at my Lumia 950 XL and knows that it can make phone calls, texting and surf the net. It works so far. For apps and other use I have a Samsung phone. Now... either ship the thing or be quiet man.
  • My thoughts are that MS cannot wait too long to release something that would fill the gap. I say this because the government agency I used to work with is moving away from PC devices for field data collection. They are already losing a big business market in that area. What they are doing is using data collection software on Android and Apple phones. And, data collection devices for field work must also have full GPS capability. They is why the low-end PC tablets are not used. So, now people use their personal phones to collect data for their work and those are not going to be windows phones. I for one liked windows mobile 10 on windows phones because it communicated well with my PC and had a familiar look and feel. Android and Apple remind me of ancient windows 95 with the clutter of icons. The latest version of Windows 10 Mobile worked pretty darn well in my opinion and the phones came with great cameras. And, there was some unique software useful for work such as GPS logger Pro. The surface andromeda folding device sounds like a great idea. However what will make it great is not the ability to fold but the ability to run win32 apps. I was duped into thinking that my win 10 phone could do that but was sadly dissapointed. And sure, eventually modern apps may replace the win32 apps . . . eventually, but not in the near future. MS should have considered cutting their phone offering down to 3 - low end, medium, and high, not dropped everything. Now there is a huge gap and a lot of burned customers. People in the government business I used to be associated with seem to have lost interest in all MS OS devices except for desktops. Phones and tablets are Apple or Android. Way back in 85 when I had an Amiga computer with a fully multitasking OS, I resented that MS powered machines kept winning out with the inferior OS at the time. But now, the tables have turned and even though I think that Windows 10 is the best OS (the compatibility all the way back to DOS programs is amazing), MS is now the underdog in the opinon of many. They love their phones and Ipads and they aren't Windows Phones. The future of computing may well be a phone with a docking station connecting to a keyboard and big monitor. Wow - I hope that Microsoft is a part of that future. Dan