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Why the death of Windows 10 Mobile may be a good thing

The imminent death of Windows 10 Mobile shouldn't come as a surprise to optimistic nor pessimistic Microsoft watchers. Observations from both camps foresaw its demise. Pessimist's concluded that the weight of opposition stacked against Microsoft would ultimately cause the company to abandon Windows 10 Mobile and its mobile ambitions.

Optimists concluded that like its predecessors, Pocket PC, Windows Mobile and Windows Phone, Windows 10 Mobile would be replaced by a successor. Full Windows on ARM or some other form of Windows utilizing CShell are anticipated to succeed Windows 10 Mobile. This would bring the full power of Windows to unique mobile devices and bring OS consistency across all form factors. With hints of an imminent introduction of Andromeda OS, Microsoft's context-conforming Windows OS, the optimist's analysis seems the more accurate of the two.

Still, the death of Windows 10 Mobile, like that of its predecessors, will leave many Windows phone enthusiasts with devices that can't be upgraded. There's no sugarcoating it, that hurts and many fans are mad about it. It's also another mark on an already marred history for Microsoft and mobile. But it's not all bad. The death of Windows 10 Mobile may be a good thing.

Power to the platform

Microsoft's ambitious, Windows-on-all-form-factors plan was finally achieved with OneCore. The problem, however, is that Windows 10 Mobile, the OS designed for small tablets and phones, was never developed completely in sync with Windows 10 proper as the "one Windows" messaging suggested.

Furthermore, though it is indeed Windows, it isn't quite Windows. It doesn't have the full capabilities of a Windows 10 PC such as inking and other features. So though it shares the same core as Windows 10, it's an underpowered counterpart.

With full Windows on ARM, Andromeda OS, on new non-phone mobile hardware (ultramobile PCs perhaps), Microsoft can finally bring the full power of Windows to our pockets. The range of capabilities that will bring to the mobile form factor via Continuum and in handheld mode would conceivably parallel much of larger PCs capabilities while retaining a mobile-friendly UI.

Then there was one… finally.

Windows 10 Mobile's demise also streamlines the Windows "platforms" users must be aware of and that developers must target.

When Microsoft says Windows 10 Mobile is Windows, consumers and some developers might conclude that there are little or no differences between Windows on PC and Windows on phone. Realizing the limits of Windows 10 Mobile compared to Windows could be disheartening to some. The distinction could also be confusing to consumers.

Conversely, users and developers know that iOS and Android are for mobile devices while macOS and Chrome are for desktop environments. When Microsoft says, Window is Windows, but Windows 10 Mobile is not quite Windows the company muddies its own messaging.

Full Windows on all PC form factors including ARM-based ultramobile PCs clarifies the messaging. Windows will finally simply be Windows on all form factors with Windows 10 Mobile and smartphones out of the picture.

A way out of phones, while staying in "phones" (it's complicated)

Almost every smartphone Microsoft or its partners launched failed miserably or resonated with a niche group barely noticed by the masses.

If Microsoft launched another phone history would likely repeat itself. Fortunately, the company's investments in ARM, cellular and a modular form of Windows will allow it to advance its telephony-enabled mobile PC strategy while forgoing smartphones and Windows 10 Mobile.

Microsoft's foldable device patent.

Microsoft's foldable device patent.

These investments allow Microsoft to position a unique telephony-enabled mobile device while not competing directly with the iPhone or Android phones. Consumers won't forsake their phones and flock to this device, but this strategy keeps Microsoft relevant in the mobile space.

A new PC category for a PC-focused future

Dropping Windows 10 Mobile allows Microsoft to focus on its strength, PCs. A pocketable telephony-enabled PC category, with an inking focus, will fit well within the company's device family. Development of a single platform for all PC form factors, including an ultramobile Surface, creates a consistency the distinction of Windows 10 Mobile and smartphones wouldn't allow.

Microsoft's focus will be setting the bar for PC categories.

Additionally, without Windows 10 Mobile or a phone, Microsoft's messaging to OEM partners will be clear and definitive. It's hardware efforts will be focused on setting the bar for Windows 10 PC categories. The anticipated ultramobile Surface will be positioned to inspire OEM partners to create telephony-enabled PCs. Recent patent's for a foldable device suggest Microsoft has't entirely abandoned the Courier concept which sports two seven-inch displays.

An updated Continuum-enabled Courier Windows 10 PC may appeal to some consumers.

This category may resonate in the enterprise, in certain occupations, and among prosumers. With enough OEM support and time, it may gain visibility among the general consumer space. As a unique PC that can be a tablet when unfolded and via Continuum be a desktop or laptop (via an HP Lap Dock-like peripheral) some iPhone and Android users may even purchase one for its PC attributes rather than its phone capabilities.

If ultramobile PCs are positioned and packaged as PCs, this could be Microsoft's "Trojan phone" strategy. Consumers who buy these PCs would also be buying "phones."

How Microsoft can ensure Surface phone success

Personal computing redefined

The modern smartphone is increasingly less about being a phone and more about being an always-connected computer where telephony is just another app.

Jade Primo Windows phone packaged with monitor, mouse and keyboard.

Jade Primo Windows phone packaged with monitor, mouse and keyboard.

Skype, is an example of a possible future of internet-facilitated calls via an app. Google's Project Fi attempts to bypass carriers to create such a future.

Tech companies realize that the internet, intelligent cloud and AI are core to the smartphone experience and telephony is simply one of the functions the ecosystem supports and users see as necessary. Though rivals aren't bringing the power of full PCs to the mobile space like Microsoft, they are bringing mobile and desktop computing closer together.

Microsoft's one Windows strategy is materializing in the wake of a failed smartphone effort, but has always been in view. Its lead in merging mobile and desktop computing is the direction other tech companies are moving though to varying degrees.

Windows 10 Mobile's demise is essential to progressing Microsoft's one Windows personal computing strategy. And for all the pain its causing progress is a good thing.

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

304 Comments
  • Jason I'm going to have to take your word on this.  But I haven't found anything good in the death of any of the Microsoft's Mobile OS's thus far.  Here's hoping you're right.
  • I agree. I have never been happy microsoft killed of a OS, or at least since WP7. I still want the 6 inch magnezium windows 10 mobile with pen support and continuum.
  • I agree that killing something or letting it die just so you launch the next thing is not good. How will people take your new product seriously if you have a tendency to quit after 2-3 years? Also considering the new mobile OS will look pretty much like W10M and will still be Windows, I think it was pointless to kill W10M for it. Just work on what you have until it becomes what you want. Both W10M and the Lumia 950 ended up being something less than originally planned and that sucks for a company that has like $125 billion in offshore accounts. As Dan said before, if MS was really determined, they could have used the resources to make smartphones and a mobile OS that is as good as the competition
  • I completely agree with you. Microsoft's method is so backwards and illogical. You keep putting out your old product until the new one is ready, then you allow people to transition to the new product. Let's apply their logic to another industry to see how incredibly stupid it is. Can you imagine what would happen if Chevrolet just stopped building all their cars because they were working on a new super self driving car? Two years later they keep saying, don't worry, its gonna be good!! Meanwhile they close all their repair shops because they won't be needed after the new car arrives? It's ludicris Microsoft's thinking. The point I am trying to make here is if Microsoft had kept their phone business alive and been excited about it, while they were creating the next big thing; even though they weren't the biggest, they would have plenty of people ready to upgrade, tons of free salesmen ready to tout their products. Instead Microsoft burned their happy existing customers over and over again turning them into forum commenting haters. So many studies show that it costs roughly 5-8 times more money (up to 30 times as much by some studies) to attract a new customer than to keep an existing one happy. Simple business 101. I can't imagine what it takes to win back a frustrated, ignored, unhappy customer. Microsoft has created an unnecessary hill to climb to get their yet unrevealed phone to the masses. I'm researching my new android phone and as I got to thinking today, once I buy it, I won't be buying another one for roughly 2 years. If their was a viable Windows phone, I would highly consider it, thereby staying in the ecosystem. Yet if I buy an Android and microsoft releases a new phone in the next six months, it will be 18 months before I even consider buying it. And then it will be weighing it against my new status quo of android, that could be similar enough that I just stay with Android because I don't want to be beaten like an abused spouse ever again.    
  • Any company is loosing money when supporting an unpopular product is never a good thing, when that money should go into developping something that will actually have an appeal. It is not like the current phones in the hands of the customers will ever stop to work; only that Microsoft has stopped making and selling new ones. I will believe that if a company knows how to be successful, like Microsoft, Google or Apple, they know best what they have to do regarding the products they develop. Always a bad business practice to cling on to projects that have been deemed unsuccessful.   I know it sucks for the consumer, but it would suck more if a company like MS goes bamkrupt because they do not know the simple rule of "failing faster". (google it, if you wanna know what it means to fail faster)
  • Even if the company is *losing money, they have intentions of getting back into the mobile game. With that in mind, the opportunity costs of customers wandering and getting entrenched in competing platforms has to have a negative effect on those future plans.  Further, the lack of trust that happens with customer abandonment magnifies those future issues. XBox was "deemed unsuccessful" and is now a very profitable part of Microsoft's business.  Microsoft, Google and Apple have also all had massive failures. There is no "always" in business practice. 
  • Don't forget how long it took Bing to become profitable too
  • I don't know about that. Microsoft is clearly a serial quitter, to the point where we're getting to the stage where the word 'always' seems more and more appropriate. It's certainly the image they put most effort into promoting.
  • Windows Phone is not "unpopular".....it was un-marketed. I don't expect MS to sell anything at a loss. People would pay more for a good device. But a loss leader isn't bad thing either. Microsoft would do well to listen to the passion for their Phone
  • It wasn't unmarketed. Microsoft spent a boatload marketing WP7. https://www.engadget.com/2010/10/18/microsoft-to-spend-one-billion-dolla... Nokia also threw quite a bit of money at WP8. It was straight up unpopular. Sales never took off.
  • It was certainly marketed in the UK, was popular in the UK, then suddenly vanished for no obvious reason. Same story in many countries. Basically, because it was not marketed well in the US and US people did not buy it as a result, MS threw their toys out of the pram, aggressively killed off Nokia (or tried very hard to do so) and took our phones away in a fit of pique. Crazy stuff.
  • Microsoft does not care about consumers, and without us Windows will never have future, will never have apps. They just pull the plug, as they did with Here Maps, Hotmail, OneDrive storage and many other things. "WP10 will be, will make, bla bla", and I've bought another phone that died out of the box, never had a future. I'm still have my Lumia 950, I love it, but will be the last.
  • Well the new product idea could be good, but I think I may have heard the exact same hype from this article before. When WM10 was launched. Almost word for word. Not so much a retrenching, more like just jumping straight back into the same old trench, but this time with a hinge. All one Windows, can be used for anything etc. I think we all know what MS REALLY means when they say such things these days. Unfortunately this article seems to be making the same mistakes in believing this stuff that we all made with the WM10 release. Surely that can't be wise?
  • After beeing on Android for some weeks now, and got a short touch of my parents Lumia 650 ... it just feels so good compared to crapdroid.
  • I wonder if the new OS will be able to get all the apps like android.  
  • This sounds definitely like you know for sure the future of Windows on phone.
  • Before you used to say Windows 10 Mobile will one day be a success, now you're saying it's better that it dies? Which one is it?
  • Contradiction with loads of confusion about Windows10, Microsoft to blame for.
  • Nothing being available is certainly Microsoft's fault, but not Microsoft's fault when people speculate based on nothing.
    Honestly reading or not reading Jason's articles hasn't had any effect on the path we've observed Microsoft take since WP8.1. They just wouldn't update stuff and it was all downward despite everyone on WPCentral and WindowsCentral and many "fans" paining rosy pictures and trying to pass baseless speculation as sort of a feel good story.
    These articles are just rehashes of the same old stuff. Here, this is all everyone needs to know: Microsoft let go of phones waaaay back. They are trying to fit a touch screen PC in your pocket to replace phones but they don't talk about it. Done. No need to read anything else on here about Windows on mobile.
  • I totally agree with you! When other tech sites declared WM10 dead (at least the start of this year, perhaps earlier), this site did not. Nothing has changed since then, and now it is suddenly dead for people running this site too. A lot of confusion to say the least
  • Hi martoots, my assertion is that Windows phone isn't dead. That should be read as Windows on "phone" or mobile as I made abundantly clear in No, Windows phone and may never die If you follow my analysis one I have asserted the longevity and persistence of Microsoft's mobile strategy even if the form factor or OS driving the mobile device changes. What many other sites perpetuate is the death of the "platform" and strategy altogether based on short-term events or current status. If you look at my broader analysis in other peices you will clearly see a prediction of Windows 10 Mobiles demise as it get subsumed (replaced by full Windows on ARM). Now, if you read Zavs recent piece confirming Windows 10 eventual demise as reported by his sources, it is in line with my long time analysis. This piece simply focuses on the transition point of Windows Mobile to Windows on ARM, since we are now "approaching" the manifestation of that stage of my prediction.
  • You say "you will clearly see a prediction of Windows 10 Mobiles demise as it get subsumed". I don't think that's a very good description of what is happening. Maybe you could write an article dedicated to clarifying what that actually means. Once CShell is released there really won't be anything left W10M can do that W10/W10oA couldn't. So, the feature set of W10M will have been subsumed by W10/W10oA. That is true. However, fully integrating W10M's feature set is far less important than the strategic role W10M plays in the market. In that regard, W10M's role isn't being subsumed! The feature set and the role an OS plays aren't just two sides of the same coin. Your articles don't clearly seperate the two. As a mobile OS, W10M's primary goal is to be a simple OS that can be used with confidence by anybody including people with little to no IT skills. The ability to offer such an OS without compromising compatibility of Win32 is the main reason why WinRT (which has since become the UWP) was developed in the first place. The UWP actually recognizing the concept of an app, the elimination of the registry, the ability for the OS to guarantee that an app can be cleanly removed, a much stricter security model, etc. are just some of the many design decisions MS made to achieve this goal. In a nutshell, it's about being simple, robust and maintanence free. These traits are also common to iOS and Android. That's the main reason these OSes have gained so much in popularity over their desktop counterparts. W10/W10oA can't fulfil that role. They are far more complex, easily broken and require regular maintenance. W10S takes W10 in a more consumer friendly direction, but it's still nowhere close to how simple and robust W10M was. W10/W10oA may come to run on very mobile devices that even look exactly like phones, but they won't be running a mobile OS! As you've said yourself many times, these devices will run desktop operating systems (albeit with the ability to present themselves on very small displays), which comes with all the drawbacks desktop OSes entail. This includes all the drawbacks that have lead to Windows not really having a meaningful fan base. In terms of the role these OS take on and markets they target, W10/W10oA can never subsume W10M. Ironically, as you've also stated multiple times, the opposite is theoretically possible, but only if UWP becomes as popular as Win32 is today.
  • Microsoft straight up said WoA is not coming to phones, that it isn't for "phone experiences". It isn't replacing W10M as it isn't a phone platform. Something else may, but we do not know anything about it at this time. I doubt Microsoft will ever be able to justify releasing another phone. The odds of success for a Microsoft phone, no matter what they call it, are slim to none.
  • Exactly. Yet Jason used the word "subsumed" which most people understand as "W10oA is replacing W10M". There is plenty of evidence of that misconception in these comments and Jason's language is making it worse. That's what I hope he'll address.
  • But Jason, pretty much the ONLY thing MS has been clear and direct about is that W10-on-ARM is very much not for mobile phones, not designed for such and is not intended to be released on mobile phones. They have even gone so far as to state that WM10 is the OS for phones. We will not be seeing a phone with W10-ARM on it. According to MS that is.
  • No incompetent writers paid just to get clicks with useless articles are at fault.
  • J.W is just a MS spin doctor. No good can come from abandoning the market and burning thousands of fans and devs, none. Spin it anyway you want, this is just another massive blunder from MS in a long line of massive blunders and this is just another JW click bait article in a long line of JW click bait articles.
  • Click bait is a bit strong.  It is speculation.  And for me - a little bit of hope.  (yes, you are rolling your eyes at me)
  • Tends to change depending on whether the prescribed medication was taken that day or not..... :)
  • Lol
  • As the situation developed I think it is only natural that people update their opinions. It would be silly to expect him not to change his opinions given new developments.
  • It what I've been saying for months, that Windows 10 Mobile would be subsumed (replaced) by Windows on ARM and would die like Pocket PC, Windows Mobile and Windows Phone. I state it very clearly here in No, Windows phone isn't dead and may never die: https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-phone-still-isnt-dead-heres-why AND here **What Android and iPhone users need to know about Windows phone **: https://www.windowscentral.com/whats-windows-phone-iphone-and-android-phone-users-want-know AND HERE: Windows 10 on ARM: Microsoft's ultimate mobile device vison comes into focus: https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-arm-microsofts-ultimate-mobile-device-vision-comes-view I've set it elsewhere as well bit these make it very clear. What I did in those peices, particularly the first two is give an overview view of what has happened and what would happen in relation to Microsoft's mobile OS history, how each one died to replaced by another. Though it had not yet happened I presented the overview and analysis despite most bloggers touted the death of Windows phone in the sense that Microsoft's mobile efforts were dome and they had no plan forward. I consistently pressed my analysis that are more advanced form of Windows would come to mobile devices. Recently Zac Bowden published a piece confirming my long-time assertion supported by information from his sources. Microsoft does have a plan forward, Windows 10 Mobile like its predecessors Pocket PC,Windows Mobile and Windows Phone will be replaced. Now, after Zaca confirmation rather, I have zoomed into the "Windows 10 Mobiles death and replacement" part of the analysis that you will see predicted I'm the first two peices I linked here. The earlier pieces give a broader overview like looking at a ariel view of a lomg traffic jam. This piece zooms into the road work that is delaying the traffic. This is a focus on the transition point that has been predicted before.
  • No one is going to carry a phone and a small Windows mobile device. By the time MS figures this out Apple and Android will have a similar device, but with apps.  
  • These style devices have been available on Android for years. They just aren't popular because there is no use for them in a cloud world. Why carry around a mediocre phone and a laptop dock so you can have a mediocre desktop experience? You might as well carry a great phone and an Ultrabook. There is no point. Microsoft is stuck in a time before the cloud made all our data ubiquitous. There is no reason to only have a single computing device that is spread too thin to give a good experience.
  • He was just going though the stages of grief...
  • Zac and Dan got to him.
  • Here we go again with Jason
  • 😅
  • 😀😀😁😁😂😂
  • 😂😂😂😂
  • Really....oh man.... This is a total change of tune...but what mobile strategy are you talking about when there is NONE.
  • Amen!
  • Hi Richard no change of tune here: I've been saying for months, that Windows 10 Mobile would be subsumed (replaced) by Windows on ARM and would die like Pocket PC, Windows Mobile and Windows Phone. I state here: No, Windows phone isn't dead and may never die: https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-phone-still-isnt-dead-heres-why AND here **What Android and iPhone users need to know about Windows phone **: https://www.windowscentral.com/whats-windows-phone-iphone-and-android-phone-users-want-know AND HERE: Windows 10 on ARM: Microsoft's ultimate mobile device vison comes into focus: https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-arm-microsofts-ultimate-mobile-device-vision-comes-view What I did in those peices, particularly the first two is give an overview of what has happened and what would happen in relation to Microsoft's mobile OS history, how each one died and was replaced by another. Though it had not yet happened I presented the overview and analysis despite most bloggers touting the death of Windows phone in the sense that Microsoft's mobile efforts were done and they had no plan forward. I consistently pressed my analysis that a more advanced form of Windows would come to mobile devices. Recently Zac Bowden published a piece confirming my long-time assertion supported by information from his sources. Microsoft does have a plan forward, Windows 10 Mobile like its predecessors Pocket PC,Windows Mobile and Windows Phone will be replaced. Now, after Zacs confirmation, I have zoomed into the "Windows 10 Mobiles death and replacement" part of the analysis that you will see predicted I'm the first two peices I linked here. The earlier pieces give a broader overview like looking at a ariel view of a long traffic jam. This piece zooms into the road work that is delaying the traffic. This is a focus on the transition point that has been predicted before.
  • Justifying speculation with more speculation...
  • Yes, just more speculation. I wish WC would assign an investigative reporter to this topic instead of just more speculation pieces. Are there no leaks from MS ANYwhere? Are they really that much better at security than the Federal government? Let's get some actual reporting on this topic - some insider info, some leaks, so in-house connection to what's going on.
  • The failure of W10M certainly isn't a good thing merely because it cements UWP as a failure. Without mobile, UWP is useless. It cannot replace Win32.
  • Saying it cannot replace Win32 is kind of hyperbolic. Also saying it's useless without mobile is false considering there are plenty of UWP apps that release without any mobile aspect to them.
  • It can't. It isn't nearly as powerful as Win32 and the majority of Windows machines cannot access UWO. You don't see UWP being supported heavily at all because of this. I cannot think of a single big name UWP app that has been released. Microsoft doesn't seem invested in it as even Linked In didn't get a UWP app!
  • You're right it's not at powerful as win32 yet and it's going to take time unfortunately. There's no way to make UWP as powerful as win32 in a short amount of time.
  • "It isn't nearly as powerful as Win32 and the majority of Windows machines cannot access UWO" Do you really think either of these are permanent statements? Not to mention the fact that the lack of power isn't necessarily proof of the inablity to replace Win32.  As for big names, what's your definition of a "big name app" I mean Office exists as UWP, I'd say most people know what office is. Netflix is kind of a household name. iTunes annouced their support for UWP (I know you love iPhone) Adobe has apps. Pandora, Spotify, Plex.. What are you looking for as a "big name app"?
  • They will be permanent statements as long as it isn't beneficial to support UWP. It isn't beneficial today and that is why none of the apps you mentioned are native or "true" UWP. They are wrappers or bridges.
  • Now you're just making things up "They will be permanent statements as long as it isn't beneficial to support UWP" The market share of Windows 10 is not directly related to the success of UWP. As PC's are replaced we continue to see the market share of Windows 10 increase. The power of UWP also has near infiniate potential to grow. "none of the apps you mentioned are native or "true" UWP" without arguing that UWP is UWP is UWP, Plex most certainly isn't either of those. I don't really feel like researching the rest, so I'll leave the burden of proof on you to prove the rest are all from Centinial or just web wrappers. https://www.windowscentral.com/plex-windows-10-pc-now-available
  • They aren't. You really think Apple rewrote iTunes as UWP? Spotify is a Windows 8 app or whatever they call it. Office is centennial. Facebook is just garbage as they are using some kind of bridge. Adobe is also centennial. These companies aren't truly supporting UWP and when adoption of these apps from the store isn't sufficient, they will drop support for them just like many others have in the past. Windows users just don't use the store. There is no reason when all the apps aren't that good and they have decades of training to get the good ones directly from websites. Microsoft hasn't done anything to retrain these users.
  • I know iTunes is Centinnial (at least that's what they said they were going to use back in May so it could possibly change, but doubtful) Office 2016 is centinnial but I'm pretty sure the mobile versions are not. I never mentioned Facebook, though there is another 'big name'. Adobe as multiple apps, not all of them are centinnial. I'm still waiting on proof the others are bridge / wrappers and why that means they aren't UWP's, or are they not 'big name'
  • They are not
  • No such thing as 'native' or 'true' UWP. Not sure where you got that from. A wrapper is a valid UWP. A wrapper can still use Windows 10 API's such as notifications, Windows Hello and so on. It's up to the developer as to whether they want to create a new XAML / C sharp app or a 'wrapper' - both are still UWP.
  • Keep telling yourself that. I know it sounds good, but there are definitely differences. They are not the same.
  • I would suggest you read the recent What is a UWP article again. You seem to be confused as to what the definition is.
  • I read that article. They are trying to make UWP not seem like a failure by widening the definition. There is a difference between a native UWP and a web wrapper or bridge regardless of their "definition" this week.
  • No the definiation has always been the same. If you're going to reject facts (like you seem to do a lot) then there is no discussion with you to be had.
  • There is a difference. Even Dan mentions "True UWP apps" in the comments on that article. There is centennial and bridge UWP apps and there are native UWP apps. They are not the same behind the UWP name.
  • Except they behave the same. Their difference is the code they were originally written with that has then been translated so it can run as a UWP and use the W10 specific components. They don't even use any of the same backend pieces of the win32 app that they were to begin with (as it says in the article). It also says int eh article 'The UWP platform and its bridges are all about giving developers various routes to one place: the Windows Store. How they get there, or how many versions of the app exist, is inconsequential. Microsoft would prefer developers just to use the same code with a single app, but the company does not dictate such practice. In the end, it is up to developers to choose the best route.'   It states over and over again, that they are UWP apps, just because you don't have the technical understanding of what is going on doesn't mean, they aren't a UWP app. 
  • It says right in your quote that Microsoft would prefer that they make a true, native UWP app. Why would they prefer that if there was no difference?
  • You'd have to ask Dan what his reasoning behind the preference is, as he wrote the sentence, not me. It's very likely though that it's a lot easier to support both from the aspect of Microsoft does give support to devs if they need help, and as the UWP evolves, they don't have to take into account anything in there that others devs did with their apps that have been ported. Also, it's not difficult to understand Microsft spend time and money building the bridges, if they didn't have to do that, then all that time and money could have been put elsewhere. If you're so hung up on what the differences are, why don't you research them and then post your findings along with how it makes an app not UWP.
  • Dude, you don't get it. Non-native UWP apps aren't universal. They are for just PCs or phones or whatever specific form factor they were originally designed for. They aren't designed to scale from phones to PC to XBox to Hololens. They are just ported to a UWP wrapper. Native UWP apps can. They were originally written as UWP so they are able to scale to any form factor. That was the whole point of UWP. Since there is no mobile, it doesn't make sense to create true UWP apps. You can make an XBox app if be that form factor makes sense for your services and just keep your Win32 app. No reason to create a true UWP.
  • No Dude, you don't get it. Universal doesn't mean run everywhere, it means a universal platform they are built on with a set of instructions and api's available to them. 'Native' UWP's also aren't always able to scale to different devices, nor can they always even run on other devices. 
  • Sure, they don't always scale because no one uses the store on mobile or even PCs so why bother? They can scale though if the developer wants. Ported apps cannot scale. They are not universal and calling them that is misleading.
  • You can call it misleading/wrong/whatever you want, the fact remains, the 'universal' doesn't mean run everywhere. Never has, never will. It means exactly what I said, a universal set of instructions and api's available to the developer. You're also contraticting yourself. 'they don't always scale because no one uses the store on mobile or even PCs so why bother' by that logic, if a devloper writes an app from the ground up (as you say is the requirement for a native app) and doesn't include Hololens, is that app not native, or not UWP?
  • It is still a native UWP app that scales from PC to phone to XBox, just didn't make sense for Hololens. Or maybe it is just PC and mobile or mobile and XBox. It is still a native UWP app that is capable of scaling to all platforms if the developer wants. Centennial, bridge and web wrapper apps cannot do that. They cannot scale the way a native UWP app can. The whole benefit of UWP was supposed to be "write once, use anywhere". That is not true of non-native UWP apps. Microsoft's vision of UWP wasn't ported Win32 apps and web wrappers. They had to add that stuff later because the app store failed to attract customers or developers.
  • So where does iTunes make sense to use anywhere but a PC? Nowhere, so it makes sense to use a tool to port your current application to work just on the PC anyway. Why would you spend all that time to build iTunes from the ground up, when people are only going to use it on PC if you don't need to. Yet if you wanna have an app span across all devices, like netflix, or plex, they do build it from the ground up. Doesn't mean either one has less access to any of the instructions in UWP.
  • You don't want Apple Music on your XBox, tablet or phone? Music apps make sense everywhere except maybe Hololens if you don't want background music.
  • You can still play your music without iTunes. Even apple doesn't think iTunes needs to be elsewhere. They only designed it to run on desktop machines (poorly on windows)
  • "Native UWP apps can. They were originally written as UWP so they are able to scale to any form factor"  That's incorrect.  I can create a new UWP app writting 100% in C# & XAML, and choose to only support a desktop form factor.  That doesn't mean its not a UWP app.  You really need to stop, because its clear you've got now clue what you're talking about.  I make my living building apps on the Windows platform, and have been for 20 years.  
  • @ajj3085 >> "Native UWP apps can. They were originally written as UWP so they are able to scale to any form factor" >That's incorrect. You and bleachhead are saying the exact same thing. You think there's a disagreement here but there is none. Bleachhead is saying that the UWP provides built in and standardized concepts and machanisms which allow UWP apps to adapt their UI to different display sizes. He's not saying that it happens automatically, or without developers compositing different UIs for different display sizes. However, doing that for a UWP app is trivial when compared to achieving the same behaviour for Win32 software which doesn't provide any such concepts and machanisms, standardized or otherwise. That's all he's saying. Using the desktop bridge to bring Win32 software to the Windows Store doesn't change anything about how the Win32 software's UI is generated at runtime. It still does so using the same Win32 API calls. For such an app, gaining the capabilities associated with a UWP app's UI (like continuum or live tiles) requires a manual rewrite of the UI layer. That is correct, so in this regard Bleachead does know what he's talking about. You're just miscommunicating.
  • UWP???? What is the universal there? When UWP were announced, Microsoft said that "now we will have the SAME app across all our devices", that's the U (UNIVERSAL) in UWP it is supposed to be. But now we have some win32 apps with a plus of notifications, tiles, etc. We don't have THE real UWP announced by Microsoft, we have a kind of Win32 2.0 apps.
  • Do more research, Universal doesn't mean can run on all devices, it means a universal set of instructions and apis that can be accessed.
  • You think semantics is Microsoft's answer to not becoming irrelevant?
  • Doesn't matter what I think, it matters what is fact. The fact remains what Universal means in the context of UWP. 
  • In the conect of UWP it means that it runs on all Windows 10 based platforms. Centennial allows getting win32 apps in the store but those aren't UWP. Windows 10 APIs can be used in Win32 apps, that does not make them UWP. The U specifically describes apps that could run on all of these platforms with minor changes (for different screen sizes, lack of mouse/keyboard, etc.). Yes, as a developer you can target a specific platform only and there are some add-on APIs that only work on specific platforms (that might go away with Mobile being merged into Win10 itself) but if you're not even using the actual Universal Windows Platform and are just wrapping a Win32 app, your app isn't UWP. Unfortunately, Microsoft and websites that cover Microsoft have been doing a bad job keeping things clear, probably by design but without Win10M UWP is meaningless, I've been saying that since it came out... edit: to clarify. Yes, you could still target the Xbox but that's a tiny market that most apps don't really fit well. HoloLens is another possible target but we're a couple of years from that product being in the real market. The change of startups who target iOS and Android also targeting UWP is even smaller now
  • You should look up the definition of semantics.
  • "Windows 10 introduces the Universal Windows Platform (UWP), which provides a common app platform available on EVERY DEVICE THAT RUNS WINDOWS 10. The UWP provides a guaranteed core API ACROSS DEVICES. This means you can create a single app package that CAN BE INSTALLED ONTO A WIDE RANGE OF DEVICES." https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/get-started/universal-appli...
  • Read it again. A PLATFORM that can be installed on all devices. If you don't use those universal instructions throughout the entire app (something you can do if you build from scratch btw) you limit the WIDE RANGE OF DEVICES (notice it doesn't say ALL)
  • You are right and wrong at the same time. If the world would care about strict definitions you would be right, unfortunately what matters is how a theoretical definition applies to the real world. In the real world what really matters to define an app universal is if it can scale and adapt to form factors. When I say matters I say it's relevant for possible adoption from devs. If there is no need to support many form factors coders won't support UWP, try and run centennial apps on this mythical ultramobile device and good luck.
  • Developers know what a UWP is though (at least they should, we currently live in a world where anyone can be a 'developer') I don't disagree though that universal can be a confusing term. The thing is though, those that can't/don't get it, dont really need to. They just need to know, can x app work on y device. I'm not even sure how many people know them any more than just 'app' outside of the more technical fan base or developers.
  • "UWP???? What is the universal there?" The PLATFORM is universal; that is, no matter what I choose to target, the APIs available to me as a developer are the same.  It used to be a whole different set of APIs to target WP7/8.  Its about code sharing and maximizing it.  But just because i CAN offer an app on all platforms, doesn't mean I necessarly want to.  There still is a little work to accomidate different form factors.  A good example of this is Groove music on the desktop vs the phone.  You still have to code which parts of the layout are always there and which are only there on larger displays.  Its not terribly difficult, but it is work, and if suporting a form factor isn't going to be worth that work, I wouldn't do it.
  • deleted (mistakenly posted)
  • I suppose that explains why native-UWP-but-not-originally-UWP-honestguv apps like Facebook run so well when compared to native-UWP-originally-written-as-UWP-and-actually-run-well-as-UWP apps (good grief, can we not just revert to calling them native and non-native?).
  • @axmantim Actually, Daniel Rubino is the one who is confused here. You are too since your knowledge is derived from his misinformation. Bleached is a developer. So am I. Pretty much every developer on here has been telling Danial his definition of what comprises an UWP app is wrong. Find my comments in that recent article (and many others) to find out why.
  • No, there's no such thing as wrapper or bridge.  If its in the store, its on the UWP.
  • @ajj3085. No matter how many time WCentral writes articles claiming that and thereby misinforming people like you, it remains BS.
  • Unfortunately, so long as UWP apps are sandboxed, they will always have restrictions that Win32 apps do not have to cope with. UWP apps will always be more restricted than Win32 apps. I don't like it, but that's a fact unless MS unlock the system. I doubt they'll ever do that because of the obvious down side. So UWP will always be more secure, but more restricted in functionality.
  • who on earth cares about UWP apps on a desktop? how many users? UWP without mobile is useless! Not that MS care too much about UWP...look at some of their apps: Linkedin, a pathetic web wrapper, Skype UWP: an ugly piece of crap. etc
  • You realize there are more devices than desktop and mobile that use UWP right?
  • which ones are there to count for? Xbox? LOL...the only apps I have on Xbox are games and the bluray player. That's it. What is the use of others? maybve VLC, yes, but the rest...useless. What others? Hololens? :)))) that thing that already got abandoned by MS and nobody cared to develop anything for it?? while Apple ARKit is already popular among devs and it's a few months old only... :))) Devs care more about the serious platforms such as IOS and Android for their apps, not for this pathetic UWP stuff that not even MS cares about...UWP is a good idea, badly marketed and implemented by a mediocre company aka Microsoon. Everything they touch is ending up being dismantled or sold, most products they deliver are half baked filled with bugs.
  • Doesn't matter what you have seen on Xbox, they still exist there. Btw spotify, vlc, mytube and yes, games, on the gaming system. Hololens is so abandoned that the next version with integrated AI is in the works. It's not yet a consumer product so of course there arent a lot of apps on it. You also forgot iot. All that withstanding, if mobile was the only reason for UWP, why are they still being released when everyone says mobile is dead?
  • No, UWP is fine without W10M.  UWP works on other things besides desktop, like Xbox and hololens.  It will still be there on Windows for ARM.  That might be the saving grace of this nonsense, is that UWP apps for W10M hopefully should be easy to just make available on WoA.  With Win7/8 fading away too, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to build a Win32 app if you're starting new.
  • WoA doesn't change anything. It is just another option instead of AMD it Intel. It is the same old Windows but capable of being run on an ARM processor. It might have a bit better battery life but at the expense of performance.
  • @bleached I admire your tenacity. This is a losing war unfortunately. Everyone thinks they understand these technologies, but very few have an understanding of the technology that goes beyond Daniel Rubino's own misconceptions. Until WCentral employs someone who actually understands softare technology, this site will remain a cesspool of misinformation. There is no way to fight it since we're stuck with the smaller megaphone.
  • Wow axmantim,  looks like your losing this battle with bleached...He's even getting more upvotes from you.  crazy,  figured the fanboy population would have another fanboy's back!   HA HA.  In all seriousness...MS said publically when windows 10 was announced,  that UNIVERSAL meant run on ALL WINDOWS 10 devices....Hence the name UNIVERSAL....
  • @Steve Adams This could all be so simple. It's a lot of arguing and misunderstanding/misinformation that could so easily be clearified if the people at WCentral knew what they were writing about. As Daniel Rubino correctly stated, nothing MS says about the UWP is directed towards the average Joe. The UWP is a technology aimed squarely and directly at developers. I suspect a lot of the confusion here stems from people thinking UWP somehow applies to their view of computing which revolves around consumer applications or apps. It doesn't. The acronym UWP stands for "Universal Windows Platform". Not the apps are universal, but THE PLATFORM is universal! The platform is a set of APIs that MS guarantees will exist on any device running W10, meaning the platform is truly universal, be that a server, an IoT device or anything else that runs W10. Any app that uses this set of APIs excluxively is said to be an UWP app, but that doesn't mean the app is universal. That is likely the big misunderstanding here. Only people who don't develop software could misunderstand the UWP in this way. For every developer it was clear that MS would not be able to read their minds and automatically decide how their app's UI should look and behave on any sized screen, including the sitatuion where a device has no screen at all. That's just not possible. For any competent developer it was always clear that, being a developer technology, an "UWP app" meant the app used a specific set of APIs, and not that the app itself was automatically and/or guaranteed to run on any device. The folks here at WCentral unfortunately keep bungling their explanations and will likely never get it right, so the confusion here will persist.
  • But universal apps were also on WP8.1, right? Don't I seem to remember MS themselves promoting them as being apps that run on all devices? After all, not all WP8.1 apps are universal?
  • I think the point people are trying to make is that the end user experience of running a app that was converted to UWP rather than being written for UWP first is markedly different. Call that native and non-native, or call that something else. The fact is that end users can see the difference clearly. Arguing about the terminology does not change this reality. The most you can achieve is hacking off people who simply want a way to discuss the difference.
  • I saw the headline and thought, "wait, did Microsoft finally announce the demise of Win Mobile?"  But nowhere in the article was a mention of that. I normally like your views, but found this one more click-bait than anything.
  • Well, in his defence, it is an editorial, not an article. Editorials are supposed to bring a view that is not common (well, not really, but assuming you want to read one that is intresting)
  • I won't debate the semantics of a post being an article or an editorial, as that could be used for anything we read from an online blogger.  Plus, the "Microsoft mobile platform is dead" is pretty common. :) Still, though, I'm remaining hopelessly optomistic.
  • Well, I think what the author wanted to convey, is that WIndows 10 Mobile as we know it is finished, and that is true. It is in support mode (which is nice.. at least we get some updates and not a dry cut off.. plus we get more updates than what we would get if we had an Android phone, with the phone manufcature or carrier blocking them). That said, Windows 10 Mobile, even if it was successful. The newer and faster SoC for mobile devices are impressively powerful, allowing the OS to not be as lower level than before making the OS be like Windows on PC, where it doesn't need to be coded/packaged speciifcally for a SoC, but rather any hardware. This means, that the real full Windows 10 (compiled for ARM, of course) can run on any device that support the minimum specs (performance, memory, and needed CPU and GPU technologies). The lack of success of Windows 10 Mobile just accelerated the process to do this. So, Microsoft will still be in the mobile space. It won't try to be Android or an iPhone. It will be something new. A new type of device catergory, a convirtable device. And let's face it, Microsoft has bigger chance going that route than throwing money at Win10Mobile and never pass 10% marketshare... even if it did have the apps, the apps will be last updated by several months away, let alone quality differences)  
  • They barely broke 3%. There was no chance of ever hitting 10%. That is why they quit.
  • bleached, totally disagree.  Just a handful of apps would have kept the growth going.
  • What growth? 4 or 5 years in and they peaked at ~3%. There was no growth to speak of.
  • It was a hypotetical case. Sorry, I didn't explain myself properly. I was trying to say  that if it where to sale a lot, it would never be able to pass ~10% marketshare. I estimate that ~10% of the user base are willing to try something new, and not already locked in a ecosystem already. This is a very wishful thinking percentage. The point is that they should do like Google with Chromebooks. Don't try to compete... they'll play catchup forever. All their ressources would be put in catching up to have teh same features, and not enough time/money for adding a whole set of new unique features, or polish current ones to make them more comelling. They need to go "on the side". Bring something new to the table. A new kind of device for a new need. It worked for chromebooks, and almost worked with Netbooks powered by Linux (sadly the specs where ****, and Linux based OSs where not ready for the mainstream market GUI wise and experience. Ubuntu being close)
  • Actually, there was growth.  Stores like Best Buy and Target actually carried a variety of Windows Phones, actually advertised them and promoted them during sales.  You started seeing three options for apps, that Windows Phone Store was more and more often appearing next to the Google Play & iPhone app symbols.  You could read reviews, lots of them, where people talked about how much they loved their WP's.  Then I think Google noticed & started getting pissed reading about people talking about how much better WP was than Android.  Not that they were worried about being overtaken, they just couldn't stand having a product seen as inferior and undertook a quiet campaign to sabotage the existence of WP.  And Microsoft just let them do it with little more than a whimper in return.
  • Show the numbers. The highest sales came in late 2013 or 2014. 10.5 million which was only 2.7% of the market that quarter. Sales immediately dropped after and never recovered. There was a reason Nokia and Microsoft dumped Windows Phone. Sales were never good. Google had nothing to do with it. Microsoft just didn't create a compelling platform and didn't have the services to back it up. There is no one to blame but Microsoft.
  • Stuff the numbers, I told you what I was seeing with my own two eyes.
  • Yeah, you may have seen them in the stores at one point, but they never sold. Stores would have continued stocking then. Growth never came, even when they were supported by retailers.
  • Thanks Mbytes😉
  • @MBytes, while true, it would be great if they had people with a better understanding of software technology writing these editorials. Opinions are cheap. Everybody has them. TOo much of what is written on WCentral is just barely semi-informed.
  • Hey Dragon Poo, I linked Zac Bowden's article where his sources confirmed W10M would be phased out. Most core readers here have seen that article which confirmed my earlier analysis that W10M would be replaced by a version of Windows that rums on all devices.
  • I thought thats what w10 and mobile actually was.  oh well...duped again!
  • I'm sorry, but I am sure that if Microsoft was given two choices: 1) let Windows 10 Mobile die to have a clean reset 2) enjoy a strong 3rd place marketshare with good app support They would pick option 2.  It's all about content.  Apps apps apps.  As much as I love the experience of Windows Phone 7 and onward (let's just set aside the UI compromises in Windows 10 Mobile for now)  There is no denying that the current situation is NOT what Microsoft or any of us fans would prefer.   We are left with option 1 because that's all that's left.  Yes, it is possible that a slowly improving app store on the pc side will have some benefit to a mobile reset strategy.  But let's be real.  Those apps, especially the Centenial conversions, are largely pc-centric.  Very few are truely touch-optimized AND designed to addapt to small phone-like screen sizes.  Apple and Android are light-years ahead on the content game. So that leaves us with the three major players... all coming to a center goal of dominating our digital experiences.  They come from different strengths.  But I hate to say it... Microsoft's strength in the PC Windows world is NOT the best anchor.  Apple and Google have important differences, but they both come from a strength of MASSIVE app content IN the mobile space.  It's alot easier to modify that content for additional form factors (modify-up) with bigger screens, then it is for Microsoft and friends to modify old applications to smaller screens and modern power-management aware OS paradigms. It's about momentum.  I unfortunately have had to admit to myself that Apple, and especially Google have the momentum to more easily expand their current core offerings into AI, the home, the car, the next round of wearables and Mixed Reality...the list goes on.  Microsoft has a path, but it's an uphill one. We've seen this recently with the foldable phone/mini-tablet prototype in the Android world... It's frightenly easy for another company to take similar ideas to what Microsoft may be working on, but have it run on Android.  New form factor AND tons of apps.  The road ahead for Microsoft in mobile is very difficult.
  • Well said!
  • That would make sense if they hadn't completely stopped making devices.
    I assume they thought W10 would have been further along in development by now, which is why HP bought into it.
  • I still wonder how HP risked their time and money into the X3 only to FAIL, because the reality is this, it has failed. Besides a few fans, who bothered to buy that? In the pathetic state windows 10 mobile was, and still is, I cannot believe a company like HP took such a huge risk. It was obvious not one would buy such an overpriced device, running a app-less OS, an OS ignored by MS.
  • If it dies, it dies - our family's W10M phones are years old already, so whatever. We don't care about the apps or accessories we spent money on; we'll buy new. The problem is, there's been no clear communication from MS on what we should look forward to. Should we make a switch to Android or can we hang onto our 950s and 640s for another year? The statements from MS that "We support iPhone and Android, and their platforms are important to us" is not clear enough. Many W10M users are willing to wait, however long it is...but there's no alternative statement from MS that says, "something's coming in the [near?] future..."
  • ^ this!
  • My wife finally gave up and moved to Android a couple weeks ago.  She loves finally having access to all the apps she couldn't get before, but hates that she had to give up a lot of functionality she came to take for granted.  Car integration in particular is pretty bad compared to W10M.  No more reading texts over the car's speakers, no more voice-prompted offers to reply with a text of her own, no more ability to dictate that reply text without taking her hands off the steering wheel.  So the concern isn't giving up stuff you paid for, it's the the Android equivalent of many W10M features just isn't equivalent.
  • The problem with a lot of Microsoft products including W10M is that once they get neglected and go out of favour with 'management', they actually start getting pretty good. W10M is a good example. On my 950XL, it's running pretty well. As mentioned above, Microsoft shouldn't stop development and try something new - it should be shouting from the rooftops and changing things iteratively - just like Android and iOS. If the 950XL was still sold now, perhaps with a 960XL version (upgraded everything), then in a year or two, W10M morphed into C-shell and would only work on newer devices, but all the UWP stuff you'd bought would work etc - people would bw happy. Instead, you see this dip of interest from Microsoft, then a new product and a climb, then a dip, and a climb etc. Did Apple drop the watch? No - they realised it was a bit rubbish and improved it with the next version and they'll continue to do so. With the band, no advertising, changed to version 2 then dumped.
  • Microsoft's loses interest because customers aren't interested. They could give the phones away. Why continue something almost nobody is excited for? Iterative phones and versions wasn't going to fix that. It would just be more wasted time and money. It is over. Time for them to give up and find the next big thing.
  • You said other way round. MS ditches wp7 because of losing customer? No. Ditching WP8 because of losing customer? No.
  • That didn't lose customers for WP7 our WP8. They never had customers for WP7 our WP8. Sales were always very low.
  • There are Android phones that do that. That is not exclusive to W10M.
  • no.. you are wrong. only windows ce devices (including all old pocket pc) ,symbain,sony uiq and all windows phone can do that.
  • Motorola phones have offered that functionality for a few years.
  • From what I understand the Motorolas can only do that if you're listening to bluetooth streaming, and listens to your voice using the phone's microphone instead of the car's microphone, which isn't so good if the phone is in your pocket.  I could be wrong, but that's what I've been told.  W10M, on the other hand, works no matter what audio source you're listening to, or even if you aren't listening to anything at the moment, and uses the car's microphone.
  • From the hints we got so far W10M will definitely die. And there will be no W10M anymore...
    What can you expect is the full Windows 10 running on a mobile device with cellular connection.
    And with CShell as a "launcher" i think. So basically you can bring a full PC on hand, i definitely know it's gonna be real as the recent GDP mini PC is almost the concept, just it doesn't have a proper touch interface to navigate with the tiny screen.
    Microsoft current move is most likely prepare for the launch of the new mobile device...
  • Joe Befiore just said that wasn't happening, that WoA wasn't for "phone experiences". He shut down that whole idea. Microsoft will probably never justify releasing another phone. They just have no chance of success.
  • Ahh, Jason has reached the acceptance phase of his grief.
  • I'm getting tired of these Warditorials. :/
  • Sorry Jason, but you've jumped the shark.
  • I admire your optimism (however misguided it may be), but MSFT simply pooped on it's users again, no matter how you spin it. From the Kin, to the Zune, to the Kinect, to Hololens, to WinMo, as soon as MSFT decides that it's not going to be the Second Coming, they drop the product in a heartbeat. No one is going to buy into the whole 'the Next Thing is going to be really cool, trust us!' when they've burned their user base so many times it's sad. Even just looking at WinMo, how many users got 8.1 users got screwed out of 10? Was that a good thing too?
  • I am 110% on board with what you are saying. I'm so F'ing P.O.'d at MS for this again. For years i beat the drum against Apple. Now I'm longing to be able to afford an iPhone. At least Apple has a vision and sticks to it. MS has completely lost my faith after years of Windows phones and when my 950XL started taking a dump I brought it back the the Microsoft Store and they offered me a Samsung Galaxy S8+ in its place. I had to do it cause the other offer of a Elite X3 seems stupid when MS is dopping support like it's a hot potato. This S8+ has a GREAT screen and a GREAT camera, but i hate the OS soooo much.
  • Shame you picked up a Samsung, their software and ui muck sucks Android's potential dry.
    And people say that marketing isn't the biggest push to companies who end up on top
  • They don't stick to anything...windows on desktop has re booted and rebooted etc.  Meanwhile (eventhough I think it's terrible) MacOS has features added but it has been basically the same and just added on,  and reworked.  Windows has been shitcanned more times than a Used Diaper.  They (microsoft) cannot commit to ANYTHING.   I hope they are commited to windows 10 on desktop.  It is the best desktop experience I have used yet.  I love it.  But I am always weary of them pulling the rug out.  Once more and I am going to MacOS and be done with MS and all of their services!
  • They would stick to something it it was popular, just everything they have released for mobile has been mediocre at best. Until Microsoft proves they can release a great mobile platform that people enjoy and purchase, we shouldn't go anywhere near their phones. You are guaranteed to be disappointed.
  • zhris, to answer your last question, yes it was a good thing...for the users.  With this GPS debacle on the last update I did a Device Recovery on my phone and put 8.1 back on it.  Updates be damned, I'm keeping it for the time being.  Forgot how good it was compared to W10's bugfest.
  • Believe in the Ward.  I can't wait to get a newer microsoft phone. ;)
  • Lord Nadella just made MS feel irrelevant. You should've never supported him. Hope one day bullmer and elop comes back and make wp the underdog contender it was. 
  • Balmer definitely failed. Continuing WP was a sure way to never be relevant. We will see how Nadella does, but it is too early to make a call. W10M was Balmer's baby. Nadella just took out the trash and will take time for his vision to be complete.
  • I think Nadella is taking Microsoft as a whole out along with the trash though. Mobile is the future, and without a presence in the mobile space how can Microsoft ever be relevant to consumers. Let's face it, desktop computers are declining, cameras have been replaced bu smartphone cameras in all but prosumer, pro applications. And everyone has a smartphone now.
  • We will see. It sounds like Nadella has something coming for mobile. I will wait for judgement. If it is the same Windows phone thing that has totally failed at least 3 times now, then the future is lost. Hopefully he has something new and evolutionary. That is what it will take.
  • I used to have faith in Nadella, It seems to me now that anything that isn't a huge success on the consumer side immediately gets canned. His focus seems to be entirely on Cloud and Enterprise which is great for the current bottom line, but with more and more companies doing bring-your-own-device, not having a consumer facing strategy is shooting yourself in the foot in the long run.
  • IBM focused purely on business/enterprise and that worked out well.  Wait..
  • Remember guys, its all about the clicks now, all reason has departed the building when it comes to these articles.....
  • Man UWP is complex to find a viable use case for. Win32 is way more powerful I can do so much more and design my own interfaces, but it is to limiting on UWP. But when it comes to mobile, W10M is dead so I use Java/Kotlin via the Java Emulator on android. So yeah, microsoft really needs to get a foothold with mobile for UWP to move on and advance UWP on the desktop so it catches up to Win32 (or more accuratly win64).
  • Enthusiasts? Rather people who do not learn from past mistakes.  One can whitewash Microsoft's plans and behavior as much as one likes, it will be as always: If it does not have a kick start into market heaven, Microsoft will ditch this endeavor again, except it is really no extra effort to maintain it (something like this was promised since Windows 8.
  • not good for my pocket!!!! Im done with microsoft mobile playing. Cheated since WP7
  • For many of us (as our Window's phones become more and more obsolete) the choice comes down to deciding when we make our move to Android or iOs. I'm having a hard time believing the size or cost of this new (imaginary) form factor will be very useful. It will have a pretty limited audience in my opinion.    
  • Hey Daniel... I am sorry but, this is getting embarrassing. Can you ask Jason if he can write about something else? Some freshness with a new topic is needed here. Without a miraculous turn around in the maturity of UWP... I don't even see Microsoft's "New Category of A Device" making a dent.
  • Windows Central turned all on Xbox only.. poor writers
  • Jason is an epic fantasy journalist only unfortunately.
  • Hi ITMedCEO he doesn't have to ask me to write about anything else. Perhaps you just missed these articles on Marketing, AR, Smartglasses, Mixed Reality, AI, AI driven cameras, Quantum Computing, Surface, PCs, Windows 10 S, Microsoft and Education, Tech companies and education and much and more: www.windowscentral.com/author/jason-ward Sadly, because the core audience here is Windows Phone-centric when I write about those other topics many of you are not as vocal there though I put just as much effort and analsysis there. Then when I mix it up I get remarks like this in phone-centric peices from folks like yourself who apparently have not read the many non-phone related pieces I write. I can't help if you somehow missed the but you can definitely catch up here: www.windowscentral.com/author/jason-ward Thanks for you interest.😉
  • Agree completely.  I feel sorry for Jason as he's apparently forced to put spin on Win10Mo like a high-speed clothes washer.  So the death of WinMo is now a good thing?  Jeeeeeezus H. 
  • Hi Ahy I've been saying that is is a good thing for a long time. You should really check out the fact that I've been saying Windows 10 Mobile would die and be replace by Windows on ARM for months. I've said just as Pocket PC, Windows Mobile and Windows Phone died and were replaced by a successor, Windows 10 Mobile would be replaced by Windows on ARM (with CShell.) That prediction was recently supported by Zacs story supported by his sources. My prediction was made months ago, now as we approach the actual realization of that prediction, follow Zacs confirmation, I've zoomed into the death of Windows 10 Mobile to Full Windows on ARM being a good thing that I've said in broader terms in earlier pieces. Read No Windows phone isn't dead and What iPhone and Android phone users need to know about Windows phone. www.windowscentral.com/author/jason-ward
  • Well props to you, Jason, for gracefully putting up with trolls like me ;-).  But as much as I'd like to see MS back in the consumer phone space, I'm afraid that the "cellular" pc with Windows on ARM won't mean much unless MS can effectively entice iOS and/or Android apps to come to the platform.  I just don't see where the likes of UWP apps will even begin to fill the gap, so to me it has to be iOS/Android apps coming to the platform to once again make MS a viable third option in the consumer space.  And the bridges, as currently constituted, are far from a solution.  I hope I'm wrong, but that's how I see it at the moment. 
  • As far as I know W10M is not dead yet . Let's talk when it dies which I think will not happen soon .
  • It is dead. Microsoft isn't going to announce it. The total lack of new hardware and no features since the Anniversary Update prove that. Microsoft is not putting any effort into W10M.
  • https://seekingalpha.com/article/4095063-microsofts-windows-10-mobile-os...
  • It's as dead as John Belushi when he said "One more speedball, then let's go get hamburgers!"
  • That might have been Chris Farley ;-)
  • Appropriate.  They both died at 33 of drug overdoses, but I don't remember hearing about Farley being on heroin, just mountains of coke.  And, yes, they both LOVED hamburgers.
  • Farley died from speedballing cocaine and morphene, the idiot.  He and Belushi = great comedic talent wasted.
  • Yeah, but they both died with smiles on their faces.
  • Ah, another delusional article. Noone cares about a pocket device without MOBILE apps. MS gives no **** about uwp! why should anyone besides desperate fanboys
  • Officially killing it and not calling the replacement Windows 10 (ie, wait for cShell, as an updated version of Windows 10 mobile) is a HORRIBLE IDEA.  Changing the name is a different kind of fragmentation, and kills any idea of a "One Windows" platform. At this point NOBODY should take Microsoft at their word with Mobile, and anything they come out with from here on out WILL fail, without question. 
  • Mark my words, by the time this is all over, they will have killed off all the not-completely-Windows things until we're back to only PCs being completely Windows.  You watch.
  • I believe it. #FireNadella
  • Nope...I predict that all computers will run macOS or chromebook while MS will only develop and use cloud software for those.  Mark MY words!
  • Maybe the"One Windows" thing is a bad idea. Maybe mobile devices should be different from PCs. "One Windows" certainly hasn't proved successful yet.
  • Good idea, S#!t implementation.
  • Nothing in the hardware review pipeline? Still need that divisive headline? Keep this 1 secret trick handy to keep generating ad revenue…
  • That's funny right there! LMAO!
  • If all this is true, then why bother doing W10M in the first place? It seems like a waste of time and money just to give themselves more of a bad rep for having ANOTHER failed mobile platform. Not to mention the die hard fans that feel burned over this whole thing...
  • When they are led by a visionless, cost obsessed and cheap working addict CEO, what do you expect?
  • I think youre a good writer but seriously pick a new topic. Every week anything in the headline tied to Windows 10 Mobile and or "Surface" especially, by Mr. Ward must be passed on. The same ole same ole opinionated, speculated words over and over said in a different order. Please move on until we have something to actually discuss that's NEW! We are all aware of the current torn state in the mobile devision.
  • Hi Purian here are plenty of other topics I've written about. Your welcome to read and comment on these just as you do the Windows phone articles😉 www.windowscentral.com/author/jason-ward I'd love to see ALL of you on those articles as well!🙂
  • The problem with Microsoft's "strategy" - and I use the term with a boulder of salt - is that for these past many months, with absolutely no hint of a future plan, users are abandoning their aging Windows phones and moving to Android and Apple. And it will be VERY difficult to convince them to return, if and when MS comes out with their "ultimate" "iPhone killer" "beyond smartphone" - or whatever their marketing geniuses (again, a term I use sarcastically) - are going to call it.
  • may as well change your site name to Apple Central now. I'm hanging onto my Lumia 930 and 950XL thankyouverymuch.
  • Best way to never knock was what you are missing is to never experience anything outside of what you are using.
  • Lol. Never assume. My 1st phone: iPhone 3GS; 2nd: Lumia 800 WP; 3rd HTC One M8 Android (still have); 4th: Lumia 930 WP; Current: 950XL. Out of all the platforms I found/find Windows Mobile the best.
  • Lol?
    You haven't used android in 4 years and ios in 6. Believe me, you're in the dark. And if you don't think so, you're blind. Pick one
  • Lol! Again with the ASSumptions. I try all the "new" stuff everytime something is released. I have other devices that DO run on latest iOS and Android platforms. I have picked one as par as a phone goes: it's still Windows Mobile. Go play somewhere else, chump.
  • Just lay the dam OS to rest already. Be smart and move to Android like I did. More apps with a far better UI to boot. Really quick and responsive. I have bought more than for Windows Phones and all of them was a let down. Matter a fact MS don't even care about there fan base, all of there apps work 💯 times better on IOS and Android so why bother? I won't buy another Windows phone nor can I recommend it.
  • I use my lumia 930 as a wifi hotspot with an android tablet to use the extra apps but the windows mobile system is far better for me. The android is memory hungry and a pain for moving files and the like.
  • My Windows Phone died on me yesterday.  I currently have sim in my sister's old phone while I look at my options for my new phone.  And those options are grim... I'm either faced with a very expensive iPhone which I do like (but as much as I love Windows Phone), or a cheaper Android Phone which I don't like at all but will most likely end up getting.  So when this article says that there are no upgrade options available and it's hurting Windows Phone fans, I agree.  I don't know what phone I'm going to end up with in the next week or so, but it's painful not having a new Windows Phone option on the table to look at...  :(
  • Get an iPhone.
  • Don't go with Crapple. I'm sticking with my 950XL.
  • Ahhhh...the typical fanboy..."Crapple".  That "crapple" phone can do many many more things than your 950xl feature phone.  Phones are meant to do things while being mobile.  Everything that MS put into windows 10 moible makes the phone less productive when mobile since continuum,  it's major feature is for static computing.    Dumb IMO.  GET THE IPHONE....or ANDROID.  
  • What things? My 950XL has an SD card slot. My 950XL has wireless charging. Crapple hasn't figured those things out yet. I've had Android phones before I switched to the Icon and I know they are good, but Crapple? Sure, if you like 3-year-old technology. The last good product Crapple had was the iPod. Not my fault the fanboys drool whenever Crapple introduces another overpriced product. 
  • Don't need either of those...I have 2 tb of cloud storage and 256gb of phone storage...SD is no big deal...BIG DEAL i have to plug my ******* phone in....try unlocking a hotel room with your windoh's phone...how about starting your rental car from your phone to cool it down or warm it up,  whinedoh's cant do that either.  What about accessing one of MANY BANKING APPS....NOPE....I am not changing banks because they do not support windoh's mobile...I swapped phones because they did not support APPS!  so,  how about ordering something from one of many thousands of apps for stores, resturants, etc....NOPE...no apps there,  browser sucks on mobile deivces.   What about wearing that awesome new wearable device NOPE...no connectivity to windohs' 10 moible.   hmmmmm connect to my car via somehting like carplay or android auto....NOPE....whinedoh's 10 mobile does not have that option....what about boarding a flight while not even taking out your phone,  just your awesome wearable and scan your boarding pass with that....NOPE...windoh's 10 mobile does not have that option....hmmmmm so you can take that "new technology" shitdeivce.  My "3 year old technology" does a ******* hell of a lot more than that POS 950xl feature phone.  Oh,  what about paying for things at the store,  NOPE....not available,  can't do it with any wearable available for windohs' 10 either...oh wait,  there ARE NONE!  enjoy sticking silly fukcing little cards in your device you only have to charge once a week wireless because the rest of the time it just sits there and does nothing  FANBOY!~
  • Gee - you have to use a 4-letter expletive and you can't even spell it right!! Let's see - my 950XL connects to my car via Bluetooth just fine. I use the OnStar app to start and unlock my car and have directions sent to my  car anytime I want. I use online banking with no problem. It's not too hard to use a boarding pass - maybe you just smart enough to figure it out unless you have Crapple babysit you. I can use my debit card to pay for things - that's not hard either. You take the card and put it in the slot, but then maybe you don't understand how to do that either. I'm not a little Crapple baby.
  • ha ha ha....what happens when your car is NOT a gm product?  I am also talking about RENTALS.  NOT owned cars. Bluetooth is so 2012 for connecting to automobiles...talk about 3 year old technology?   so...please....oh btw what did i spell wrong besides whinedohs.   Why would I **** with boarding passes when its' on my watch and easier to use....plus i can sit at a bar or resturant,  and my iphone will tell me when the plane is boarding so I don't have to sit around waiting in the common areas,  if there are any delays it tells me that too right on my wearable.   Please get over yourself and you half assed attempt at a mobile device.  
  • I get ripped for using a 4 letter word?  you used Crapple which is FANBOY childish speak for better devices!
  • Amazon Moto G5 plus.
    Why pay so much for a.phone you have to then add Ins to cover, plus deduct.
  • Do yourself a favor and never look back. Go Iphone or Android...your life will be easier and better.
  • My 950XL does everything I want. Why would I want to make my life harder?
  • Jim just wants to text and answer calls on his phone.  Not actually do things while moble...typical fanboy of windows mobile...sit at home and text.     FYI there Jimmy fanboy,  I own a POS 950xl.   there is NOTHING that is easier to do on it compared to using an iphone.  the iphone is FAR superior to the 950xl.  
  • Sure, killing off everything NOT "fully Windows" allows you to say "Hey, everything we have is fully Windows".  It's sort of a techie version of ethnic cleansing.  Not really showing how you've improved your ecosystem.  You've just limited it by attrition.  And, as a consumer, I don't really care about having everything "fully Windows".  Windows Phone and, to a lesser extent, Windows Mobile, was "Windows ENOUGH" for me.  What it sounds like you're saying--while basically dancing around it--is that if we want an actual SMARTPHONE, we'll just have to be okay with buying a flipping iPhone or Android, because there really is no smartphone-ish device with Windows after the devices currently out die off.  I'm tired of the "Windows will be in the mobile arena" crap. Before Windows Phone 7 I had a flip phone.  I had that because there was no way I was going spend my money on and iPhone or Android device.  And havin access to Microsoft products on said devices simply isn't good enough.  So, for me, the bottom line is that I want Microsoft to just explicitly come out and say "We have no intention of ever advancing Windows in any way, shape or form, on any device you would categorize as a smartphone.  Please use our services on the iPhone or Android device of your choice."  THAT'S what I want them to admit.  It's not difficult, and it would be the FIRST HONEST THING THEY'VE DONE FOR WINDOWS PHONE ENTHUSIASTS.  In which case, I'll continue to use my 1020 until it dies, then I'll settle for relying on my 950 until it dies, after which I'll just go back to a flip phone.  It's not a hard choice.  I just want MS to be honest.  For flipping ONCE.
  • Funny thing is that several years back, when Microsoft was killing Windows Phone 7 they said through Belfiore I think they need to do that in order to make sure the Windows OS that runs on phones has the same kernel with the OS that runs on PC. And Windows Phone 8 was born, the one that was supposed to share it's kernel with Windows 8. Back then we were promised that Microsoft won't have to reset its mobile OS. But, after Windows Phone 8.1, Microsoft resets its mobile OS one more time. This time I can't remember what was the reason. Maybe it was the concept of One Core they wanted to implement, maybe it was another reason. Now, one more time they reset the mobile OS. This time they do it because?... Again the OSes on mobile and PC are out of sync? I would have said that Microsoft has overused this motivation.
  • Cosmin,  they reboot from 8.1 to 10 because they fed a bunch of crap to its users about UNIVERSAL apps.   they reboot again,  so that Universal apps could run on EVERY WINDOWS DEVICE....we know now that was a outright lie.   
  • I think Microsoft are really at a fork in the road, they either continue to fully commit to Windows again, or they just keep going down the path of focusing more and more on cloud and Azure.  Yes I know they can do both, but even a company the size of Microsoft cannot do everything at once, and will have to prioritize what they will focus on going forward.  Considering this year’s build lead with the Azure keynote, I think they are starting to focus more on Cloud rather than Windows and Devices. As for mobile, I just do not see how they can ever recover from the dire situation they are in right now.  Having Windows Phone fail will cost them dearly going forward…  Especially in mindshare.  Let’s look at augmented reality.  Sure they have the best device, in the HoloLens, but every day my twitter feed is filled with demos and developers going to town on ARKit for iOS, so once that releases to the public it will be seen as Apple leading the AR revolution.  We can all cry, but MS did it first and better, but it just will not matter…  If most developers do their AR work on iOS, MS will again be battling for mindshare and losing.  No matter how awesome or better HoloLens is.  Remember first and best does not always equal to success.  Google had Google Wallet with NFC payment years before Apple Pay, but because of Apple’s mind/marketshare when they released Apple Pay, the world lost its mind that Apple just destroyed credit cards.  It has not happened yet, but I see more Apple Pay supported sites than I ever did Google Wallet.  Now with Android Pay, Google just picks up the whatever Apple did not, and again there is little room for a 3rd player.  I doubt Samsung will break into this. So now you have Apple/Android Pay, ARkit, etc entrenched in the mobile space, UWP not really bringing over the Apps that MS needs.  Microsoft themselves cannot even be bothered to write LinkedIn in UWP, or bring the Skype UWP up to parity with the desktop version.  Given all of that, I just do not see how any new phone has a chance.  The Surface Phone can literally print money and it still probably would not put a dent into the phone market share. Faced with this reality I understand why Microsoft is focusing more on cloud and Azure.  At least the can get in on the party in the backend.  I hope they prove me wrong, but I just do not see it happening.
  • Actually, Samsung Pay is far larger than Android Pay. Samsung's solution, unlike Apple's and Google's, does not require new NFC enabled terminals. It'll probably eat Apple's and Google's lunches in the end. It's super easy to use and it works just about everywhere. 
  • Actually Samsung's mag-stripe emulator technology is a just an interim solution. Visa and Mastercard are alreeady putting on pressure to end the mag stripe reader (by raising fees on these less secure transactions). https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-pay-users-nearly-double-in-2017/
  • I just want Microsoft movies and TV on Andriod/iOS 
  • you'rea delusional fanboy...Apple and Google have a 10 times better library of movies and TV shows.
  • There are a few things you could say. The first important thing is that Microsoft has failed in every mobile device since the iPhone arrived in 2007. From having a relatively healthy share of the business phone market it just made decisions that infuriated people. Windows 10 Mobile, whatever it's failings, was launched in a beta format. Only with the first anniversary update were most bugs stamped on. Then Microsoft "retrenched". Moreover to "upgrade" you had to basically join the insider program. Most normally users would be stuck on buggy unreliable handsets for the life of their contract. From great Nokia flagship phones that Windowsphone OS never exploited through emphasis on the US market when markets in Europe were developing double digit usage figures. The list of failed strategy is long. The knock on effect of no first party moble business is the next AI revolution is happening largely without Cortana. Its not just about devices but ecosystems of compelling consumer services. If the Surface Ultra is a great device that large enterprises can afford that's a good thing. However the normal user is not interested in how "one windows" things are but rather what device will best tell him the public transport options where he is  standing. Continuum is not relevant. I agree that Surface Ultra probably wont be a phone. However it wont solve the personal computing needs of most people now either. So it will be an expensive niche product without the consumer enthusiasm of an iPhone or Pixel.  What phone does Joe B use now. Samsung Galaxy S8 apparently.
  • Thankfully mot reader's here show some scepticism for anything this "reporter" has to say.
    I just spent over $1400 on a new HP Elite X3 and it is AMAZING as a phone system.
    Indcations from RELIABLE sources (the Therott camp) indiocate that exising Windows Phone
    users need not worry since Microsoft is continuing support for existing Windows users and moves
    down the line to move Windows phones into a new sphere of operations working with Continuum
    is in the pipeline........Jason, please back up your statements with real evidence....Disappointing reporting.
  • Hi Chris I never said Windows 10 Mobile wouldn't get support, As amatter affect you can expect support through 2018. But, as our sources indicate Microsoft is phasing out Windows 10 Mobile.
  • The HP x3 isn't getting those Continuum updates though. It is already basically dead. Just maintenance updates now.
  • Yep...it's bascially RT now.  
  • People should understand that, while Windows 10 Mobile is going out, Windows 10 ON (big difference there) Mobile is the new thing coming. I sure hope that Windows on ARM is going to work as I think it will, giving real Windows on a small form factor PC that you can tuck away in a pocket.
  • Isn't that what W10M was supposed to be? Remember Continuum? Microsoft doesn't. Why would you trust their promises now? After Windows on ARM fails, the true platform, Windows on Phone will replace it. They will claim WoA was just a stepping stone and the cycle will continue.
  • I hope this is true, but I'm skeptical. It might be good, but I think thee new strategy will still bring a lot of hurt because I haven't seen the device and OS updatabilty model change much. A 24 month cycle is short when thinking about a mobile device that merges the best of smartphone and pc. I know many, many people including myself, that uses a phone more than two yeats, and a pc at least 4-5 years. The device updatability and servicing models must change. Not like the windows mobile to 7 and 7 to 8, and 8 to 10 mobile fiasco. Developers leaving fast from one windows OS to the next is not healthy and counterproductive for the  end user.  The platform must show stability and long term dedication too, even if it is a less attractive business model. I think the appreciation and reward from the end user in the end would be greater though.
  • So this is how Jason earns his crust. He has to have a story, even if it's a non-story that contradicts previous non-stories when it comes to Windowsphone.  I don't blame him. It's his job but the fundamental fault lies at Nadela's feet because he's completley anti-Windowsphone and actually lacks a comprehensive vision for the whole Windows platform. 
  • Hey Riff you should really check out the fact that I've been saying Windows 10 Mobile would die and be replace by Windows on ARM for months. I've said just as Pocket PC, Windows Mobile and Windows Phone died and were replaced by a successor, Windows 10 Mobile would be replaced by Windows on ARM (with CShell.) That prediction was recently supported by Zacs story supported by his sources. My prediction was made months ago, now as we approach the actual realization of that prediction, follow Zacs confirmation, I've zoomed into the death of Windows 10 Mobile to Full Windows on ARM being a good thing that I've said in broader terms in earlier pieces. Read No Windows phone isn't dead and What iPhone and Androne phone users need to know about Windows phone😉
  • Joe Befiore straight said WoA isn't for phone experiences. Without a phone experience, how does WoA replace W10M? What do we know about the new mobile platform Andromeda? Is it based on W10? Will it include Continuum? Is it just another version of Windows phone with the same flaws? I am quite sure we know nothing about this new platform other than the name. Your predictions do not align with Joe's statement. He isn't using the term PC when he means phone. He directly said WoA isn't for phone experiences. Without a phone experience, it isn't a W10M replacement.
  • Hi bleached you're right about *what** Joe said. What I'm proposing is not full Windows on phone. It is a PC. Perhaps this excerpt from an earlier piece will help: "Making PCs pocketable, not cramming full Windows on phones "It's important to understand that this facet of what I believe was Microsoft's original mobile plan was not a redundancy. There was no attempt to bring full Windows to "phones." Microsoft had Windows 10 Mobile for phones. Full Windows on ARM is not an attempt to bring full Windows to phone. It is, however, an attempt to optimize Windows on cellular-connected hardware to a point where PCs could be moved into smaller mobile form factors with the addition of telephony. Unique PC form factors, on pocketable devices with Continuum and context-conforming CShell I believe has long been Microsoft's goal. Skype sets a precedence for making phone calls on PCs. I know it's challenging for some readers to visualize the difference between this and bringing full Windows to a phone. The simplest way to put it is to consider the starting point. Microsoft's not starting with a smartphone and cramming a PC OS onto it and calling it a PC. It's starting with a PC, optimizing it for ARM and cellular connectivity and giving it a form-factor that is pocketable while adding phone attributes such as telephony, and acknowledging it as what it is, a PC. This analysis is consistent with Joe Belfiore's statement that full Windows on ARM is for PC's and not phones. The device I'm describing is a PC." https://www.windowscentral.com/if-windows-10-mobile-had-succeeded-microsoft-still-would-have-pursued-post-smartphone-strategy In this scenario as I propose in the linked piece is that telephony will be just another app function but not a leading function of this device. It won't compete directly against iPhones and Android phones since it's a PC which I believe will be launces in the PC space.
  • You describe a device with a telephone experience(I assume this means a screen ~6" or smaller, not just capable of making phone calls. My Surface Pro does this today just fine). Why would Joe say it isn't for devices with a telephone experience? I really think he means there won't be a phone shell for WoA. We are probably both confused because Microsoft is also not sure what they are doing. My interpretation of these leaks is there will be two platforms even though apps might have cross compatibility. Full Windows - this includes Windows on ARM and Windows on x64. This will be for tablets, laptops, desktops, XBox and Hololens. It will have a composable shell for each of these form factors. Andromeda - This will be for phones and will probably be based on Windows but won't look like anything we have seen before (this is according to Thurrot). We really don't know anything else about it. It will probably have a version of Continuum and run UWP but it will probably not be full Windows even if they have a docking mechanism. We just don't seem to know anything about Andromeda and what it's target is. Maybe it is just a future version of full Windows that will encompse everything? That means WoA isn't for phones, it is just an interim step until Andromeda is complete? We just don't know enough and I am afraid Microsoft also isn't quite sure what their plans are. It is a tough question for them. All these failures makes future success look unachievable.
  • The market for devices with screen sizes above 6 inches as mobile devices is rather small. The 6 inch device seems to be the limit Apple can get to. Some people find that the 4 inch iphone is just perfect. The tablet market has dried up somewhat in the last couple of years. Android tablets haven't really come on. Windows tablets are almost non-existant. The PC mobile device seems to kick in at about 11 inches with HP Stream devices and then take the space between 13.3 and 14 inches. Devices larger than that have a power draw and screensize that makes them "portable" but attached to the nearest electrical outlet.  Understanding where Microsoft are going to position the screensize is quite important in my view. A cellular PC would tend to suggest a 13 inch or 14 inch device. Fold that in half and you still dont get a pocketable 6 inch device.  Perhaps this is too specific or granular. However I am forced to the conclusion that most consumers will see something over 5.5 inches as a device that is not really something they can grab and just put in a pocket. Not so important for a high end business device but phones are kind of personal for most consumers.
  • Microsoft is going to have to show some true committment to the future before most people will go back. Considering they have even abadoned their core userbase in the hopes of coming back at some future time doesn't bode well. Quite a few of my colleages in the IT field have even gotten to the point that they will use anything else but Microsoft just so they don't have to keep redoing work. Even on the home front Windows seems to becoming nonexistent. The Surface devices still work great for certain niche fields like engineering but it is almost as if Microsoft's indecisiveness, lack of committement, and constant reboots is causing them to kill themselves. When even small businesses are chooose to forgoe Windows for MacOS, ChromeOS, or even Android it makes for a bleak future for Microsoft if they don't kick it into high gear and communicate together. Innovation without tangable, useable products for the masses goes nowwhere.
  • I have never seen Liquid Jade. I have however witnessed the Fonz jumping over a shark tank on his motorcycle. Jason and Dan have got to be feeling a bit Henry Winkler at the moment. Unless of course the Click Click Boom money is really that good.
  • Ummm, actually he was on water-skis being pulled by a boat.
  • you are absolutely correct! memory recall is so bizarre. I supposed had I tuned in to a few more reruns of it, it would have burned into my memory correctly. who knows? maybe liquid jade setups are all around me, but Im not recalling that either.  
  • Jason, stop trolling these fools 😂😂😂😂
  • The fools that think Microsoft will have a viable mobile platform?  the fools that think microsoft will release the jesus unicorn?  what fools are you talking about Spazz.....
  • I love the comment "all good things must come to an end"....NOPE.  Android is good,  and its alive and kicking...IOS is great and it's alive and kicking...Good things come to an end when they are completely mis managed by the nimrods in charge.
  • If it was good, it would be easy to manage. Windows phones aren't easy to manage because they are not good, they are actually quite bad. There is a reason every single one failed.
  • Jason Ward exactly six months ago in https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-phone-still-isnt-dead-heres-why" "Windows 10 Mobile is the latest Windows on phone OS, and unlike its predecessors, it shares the same core as Windows desktops. Windows 10 Mobile, therefore, is Windows and is consequently under consistent development as part of UWP"   Jason Ward today dicsussing Windows 10 Mobile: "Furthermore, though it is indeed Windows, it isn't quite Windows."   Thanks for the chuckle Jason!  
  • BTW the typo in what I wrote above was not a cheeky Freudian slip, I promise! :P
  • These articles are REALLY starting to repeat themselves. A lot. I remember one of this author's responses to a large number of comments was "it seems that most readers have missed my point that.......". Dude, if most of your readers missed your point, then the fault of that lies with you the writer.
  • Actually Jason, most readers don't even comment. There are thousands of readers (we see the data) and only a fraction of them comment. Of that small fraction of readers who are commenters an infinitesimally small number have garnered the response that they have missed the point. So no, I don't believe that most, not even an impactful number readers miss the point. Of course as a former educator, a writer and a person who has positions where I consistently speaking in front of and teaching others I have a passion for even, the smallest numbers, to "get it"🙂. But again, based on the tiny fraction of commenters who may not get it, of the tiny fraction of readers who are commenters of the thousands of readers, most people likely get it.😉
  • Saw the headline before I clicked on it & thought it's going to be another pie in the sky meandering from Jason Ward. How right I was.
  • I can't escape the feeling that mobile is Windows' Waterloo. Sure, the Windows desktop is healthy-ish, and Surface line is well-regarded, but I feel often like Windows itself is ill. My wife's workplace (at a well-run company in a "sexy" industry) has all but ditched MS Office for Google Docs  ... not to cut costs, but because employees prefer it. I feel a strong pull to exist in one ecosystem (preferably MS), but mobile (as in my phone) is where I spend nearly all of my non-work, non-desktop, non-PC-gaming screen time. So what happens? Do I spend the next 10 years using one OS for desktop, a different OS for whatever is running in my hand, waiting for MS to finally get its act together? Or does inertia pull me toward standardizing on one? I know what I'm bound to do. Android gets good enough and Windows will be left behind. I did the same thing with Apple at the end of the '90s. I left and didn't look back for nearly 20 years. At this moment, I'm strongly considering leaving Windows 10 Mobile for Android. My wife is still on 8.1 but she's fed up, too. So we end up buying Pixel 2s or whatever, and that's hours of screen time Microsoft loses to a competitor. I'm not sure if Microsoft doesn't understand this is a problem, or understands so well that all this OS stuff is secondary to its cloud strategy. Whatever the case, Microsoft isn't in danger of losing me as a mobile customer, it's endanger of losing me as a *customer*. If I go Android, suddenly my Office 365, OneDrive, Groove and other accounts make less sense, too. I don't love Microsoft's services individually as much as I like existing in a single ecosystem. 
  • If you dislike the platform, and/or you are skeptical of its anticipated future direction, what keeps you posting on this forum?
  • Because,  MOST of us use windows 10 on our computers (much better than MacOS),  but use another platform for mobile (much better than windows 10 mobile).  Thats why!
  • cut the crap plarusa85...fanboy
  • I don't dislike the platform, and I'm not an MS hater (that should be obvious from my post). I've used every mobile iteration since WP7, as well participated in the WM10 insider's program. I own something like six different Windows phones of different generations. The reason I post is the same reason other disappointed Windows Phone users do: I'm disappointed. I've invested an great deal of energy, time and money in the "Windows mobile/everywhere/somewhere" dream and I'm saddened and frustrated that it hasn't worked out. I used to evangelize this platform (and play apologist for its zig-zags) to friends, family and co-workers because I loved using it. Just this morning, a relative I'd once convinced to buy a Windows 8.1 phone looked at my Icon and harangued me with "you still use *that*? Why?"  (Answer; I'm on Verizon, and the Icon is literally the best WP/WM phone that still runs on that network). Three years ago, I'd have had a good response to such criticism. I'd have offered evidence of a nascent-but-promising platform, of a genuine alterative to the dominant systems, of a Windows Store that was a bit thin, but growing, etc.. I can't do that anymore. I used to defend my purchase of the original Surface, too (the RT one, which only runs a single, now deprecated browser and is basically a paperweight). And of the Zune HD. And of the transition from WP 7 to 8, and from 8 to 10, to this. At some point, rationalizing MS's great engineering and bad strategy/execution gets a guy feeling ... down? So basically, you're not the audience for my comment: it's Microsoft, and anyone else on this forum who feels equally burned after getting excited about a vision and products that inevitably seem to dead-end. I'll probably continue writing posts like until A) I somehow find a digital home in another ecosystem, or B) Microsoft gets its act together. Consider it semi-loyal opposition, for now. I am critical because I want something better.  I'll turn the question (but not the downvote) back at you: How can you *not* be skeptical of Windows mobile platform and its future direction? And why do *you* keep posting?  
  • Agreed! I had a Zune that I loved, we know how that turned out! I had on Verizon, an HTC Trophy, an 822, 2 different 928's(one for my girlfriend), a 735, and an Icon! I had an original Xbox, 4,(yes 4!) Xbox 360's, currently an Xbox one and Xbox one S! I also got a Surface pro 3 on eBay! I love Microsoft but totally agree about getting burned by past products. I heard Verizon was pissed because of the Kin debacle... I'm surprised they carried anything Windows phone! I went back to Android a few years ago with a Sony Z3v, then a bootlooped LG G4! Currently on a Moto Z Force. Would love to see some new windows hardware, but how Microsoft has treated it's loyal base lately, I would wait before buying!
  • As much as my comments say to the contrary,  I loved the concept of windows 10 moible.  The U/I was awesome.  HOWEVER,  after gettting all the spin and lies from MS about how it can do this, that and the other thing,  only to find out that it was a load of horse manure,  It wore thin.  Not having the apps I wanted to use,  having web wrappers,  not real apps, wearables, accessories etc...Not supporting phones that were said to be fully upgradeable,  and after microsoft came out on stage and publically said ALL DENIM phones will get upgraded....then pull back etc.  I was just done.  I went to iphone.  I want a polished experience and iphone gives me that.  Android is cool,  and customizable...but its no where near as smooth and fast as IOS.  No matter what phone i put next to my iphone,  its not as smooth or fast....
  • I purchase Lumia 2520's (AT&T and Verizon) my reward? My current phone is an unlocked 950XL. My reward?
  • Here is the problem with a surface tablet phone PC. As alluring as the surface name is, it will not receive the out pouring of support that many, myself included, believed it would. Lets go with an example. The Asus Padfone, after a cursory search, came out roughly 6 years ago, followed up by a two more devices with the same moniker. All three of these devices seemed like they were made out of dreams and pixie dust because you could take your cellphone, dock it into a tablet, and just like that you've got your phone doing much more on a bigger screen. None of these devices, regardless of their build quality or speed, caught on. Do you know why? People like distinct devices for distinct tasks. Notice how "trendy" people will have a tool that does many things, but people who need to get things done have tools that do the task at hand very well but other tasks poorly. I love the idea of the courier. People are not going to buy it to replace their phone and you're very short sighted if you think so. How many people use their smart watches to actually answer calls and send texts? How many people want to always wear a headset or ear piece to communicate through their courier style device? How many people want to carry around assorted adapters in a bag with a keyboard and mouse so they could hook up to a hotel TV(?!) to do productivity based work? All of these tasks are better suited to having a phone that you use for keeping in touch and a laptop you use to get things done. It's when you try to marry these things into one device that you run into all the head aches of it performing all of them ok but none of them perfectly. These devices will only sell in an enterprise market. People aren't going to want to carry a tablet with them everywhere and there is no device coming in the next 10 years that will go from the form factor of a comfortable and reliable phone into a comfortable and reliable tablet or better yet into a comfortable and reliable laptop. Physics can only be stretched so far. I think it is more likely that we will see neural interfaces with our devices before we see the unicorn that people think the "surface courier" is.
  • I was just going to bring up the padfone Flan.   Exactly the same "unicorn" that windows fanboys are dreaming of.  Been there,  done that.  NOT going to sell or save microsoft.   
  • Would assume that hotels are expected to also provide a keyboard, mouse and dock to accompany the screen. In that way continuum would work. Highly pinchable though so they probably wouldn't. In the real world, a laptop is by far more convenient and practicle as you say. And as you also say, let a phone be a phone and a laptop a laptop!
  • Ok, we get it MS makes product lines then kills them.  Why this isn't good it because MS is not reliable.  I understand having to start over.  So why not SHARE that plan with me instead of surprising me with another idea that will go down the toilet.  BlackBerry - was a solid performer - but would you trust them when they keep teetoring.  Will they be there for us?  Will they not?  That is a huge risk for businesses.  Businesses like stability. The video of that JournalPad was alright - but I don't want to carry multiple devices around - I want to use it as a phone, use apps, take photos be portable.  This is where Continuum was cool.  Hope they keep that alive.  Because if I move to an Android device, guess what my JournalPad is going to be - and Android device so I get all that easy integration.  Same with the Apple Ecosystem.  Same with W10M and W10 - they are similar enough. Personal/Business devices are melding.  Every txt or message a colleague at work using Whatsapp about work?  Yeah, even on vacation? Yes, if W10m must die, then it must...but let me know what your plans are....just a little bit please...
  • Microsoft will never let you know when they are kiling a product, till it's 100% dead.  They just abanond them, and leave them up for sale. People still buy into it and dont know they are already dead.  They make promices and let everyone down. Microsoft thinks because their Office and Windows products are so successfull that everthing they make will be... They are sadly finally learning.
  • I'd like to believe someone will put out a device using Windows on Arm that doubles as a phone, but I'll believe it when I see it. MS seems to be so desperate to deny they're in the phone business I'm afraid they'll discourage anybody else from building one, too.
  • What a truly bizarre article. With articles like this windowscentral will be dead soon too. 
  • and then you would see an article on why its a good thing.
  • Hi Stephen, what's bizarre: very strange or unusual about Microsoft replacing Windows 10 Mobile with a form of Windows that runs on all device types? The company replaced Pocket PC with Windows Mobile, then that with Windows Phone and that with Windows 10 Mobile and now a full, more powerful and feature rich Window on ARM with CShell, Andromeda OS, that runs on all form factors so a distinct and limited by comparison Windows 10 Mobile OS is not required. That strategy to me I wise, not bizarre. It may or may not succeed but MS must do something. Can you explain what you mean by this being bizarre? Even if Windows 10 Mobile succeeded Microsoft would have pursued a post smartphone strategy https://m.windowscentral.com/if-windows-10-mobile-had-succeeded-microsoft-still-would-have-pursued-post-smartphone-strategy
  • Although Jason's articles are always well written and well thought out...I swear he's so blinded by his love for Microsoft that it's hard to even want to read his articles. His articles really seem out of place on this site.
  • Hi TheCudder thanks for the compliment. 🙂 Now to your statement. I'm not blinded by a love for Microsoft at all. I've actually been very critical of some of their decisions such as a lack of consumer focus, poor marketing, focusing Windows Mobile on the enterprise, being slow to market, lack of putting a full effort behind mobile, AR and more. What you see here is an observation of a multibillion dollar technology and personal computing company that both realizes the stakes of needing and not having a tangible mobile presence. I think it's overly cynical for some, naïve for others, simply disenchanted for some others, and then a smaller portion who simply believe for what they feel are legitimate reasons, that Microsoft does not have some type of mobile strategy. I am not advocated that what I believe Microsoft's mobile strategy is will succeed. I'm presenting that this is what I believe their mobile strategy is. This is a point where many readers get confused. Presenting an analysis of a company's strategy and what the company's desired outcome is, is not an endorsement that it is guaranteed to have the those desired outcomes. I'm curious what is your analysis of Microsoft's mobile strategy. What is it that you think this multibillion dollar company that - ***Knows it must have a mobile play**, - **Has invested and continues to invest in Windows 10 Mobile with the professed intent of NOT marketing or developing it claim share but as a technical investment in ARM and cellular** - **Who has said it is still going to bring out new devices that are not typical smartphones to market** - **Who has developed CShell for which we've provided videos** - **Who continues development of Continuum** - **Is bringing full Windows to Cellular PCs this year**. - **Though patents are by no means a confirmation. But we've recently seen patents for a foldable device reminiscent of the Courier. Keeping in mind we also saw patents of the Surface Studio before it launched**. - **Also Microsoft's vision has always been one Windows on all devices, Windows on ARM and our info on Andromeda OS, which we've wrote about supports that**. So, if you disagree with my analysis which is perfectly fine by the way. No one knows for certain what MS will do (They cancelled the McLarlan at the last minute, and the Surface Mini. Both products were on their way to market.), what is YOUR analysis given these factors? https://twitter.com/JLTechWord/status/899946588633804800 Even if Windows 10 Mobile succeeded Microsoft would have pursued a post smartphone strategy https://m.windowscentral.com/if-windows-10-mobile-had-succeeded-microsoft-still-would-have-pursued-post-smartphone-strategy
  • Namaste, WOW! excellent atleast now customer can easily decided to buy a new or who want to move from windows to IOS/Android. So now 2 option we get no more 3rd option. Ya in future we get the option for W10M, but nobody knows (even microsoft dnt know when they are ready with mobile like devices in 2017 or 2018 or 2020 or some more).  I believe when ever W10M will be release with brand new hardware & OS it will be the best among all 3 OS (IOS, Android & Windows). But here question is that the number of apps could be available as we seen in other 2 OS.  I dnt know why microsoft taking this much time for developing new OS. Already they stopped working on current devices from 2015 (after lumia 650, 950xl & 650 release). They already spent 2 years and till nothing they have done remarkable in W10M. Also not a single news they said or leaked in respect of mobile.   
  • Namaste, Reason for mobile dead is microsoft itself a problem. Why ???? Because they never work seriously for it they always worry about PCs & surface laptop and pro everytime. Actually there is nothing like a MOBILE DIVISON in Microsoft..  His CEO once upon a time told about CLOUD FIRST, MOBILE FIRST but where it is ?????????????????????? Jason can you tell me where this gone. I thought we get a feature in ANNIVESARY UPDATE in W10M but NO, Ok i think now we get in CREATORS UPDATE but agaion NO. Ok now we get in FALLS CREATORS UPDATE but this time they frustated and tell no more new features or if there will be then dnt support on current devices. So they kill hope of die hard customers or insiders (like me).  Alteast good strategy which cant except from such big brand (LIKE MICROSOFT). Whatever they want be in or out from mobile division its there own personal company policies. But micorosft given so much pain to all of us (W10M fans).     JAI HIND
  • Cloud first mobile(android and ios) first
  • Can someone, anyone just wake me up when we can stop speaking hypothetically and trying to predict the ever mystical world of Microsoft in mobile and ACTUALLY have a brand new device that we can see, touch and buy?
  • Very well written article Jason, but I guess I am just over all of this. It's been exhausting trying to follow Microsoft's mobile strategy while keeping hope alive. I couldn't care less anymore. I have my Lumia 950 XL and when it dies I'll just look and see what's available to purchase at that time, knowing there will be no MS presence or maybe there will but I am done looking towards the future. I'll still click on your articles to give you the hit but I won't be reading 😭
  • I broke the screen on my Lumia 950XL a few months ago.  I did what you said and got the Samsung Galaxy. What a piece of porrly designed not-well-thought-out rubbish running apallingly stupid software.  It's sad.
  • Lack of content apps , is the primary reason why W10M failed . The OS is good , the hardware ok that is not the issue and then program designed to run on bigger screens are also not valid apps on smaller ones . This is the reason why I believe the pocket PC or whatever you call it will be a failure . Unless MFST comes up with an entire new family of apps specially designed for it.
  • Ha fk windows mobile. A refund for all this bullshit would be nice
  • Was it ever alive?  Windows 10 Mobile was a stillbirth. 
  • I frankly couldn't care less. I'm done with Microsoft phone. My next phone will be an iPhone. I don't like Apple but the rest of the family have iPhones so it sort of make sense. Literally the only thing I'll miss is live tiles. I will never trust Microsoft in the mobile space again. Period as I believe you Americans say.
  • I read your article (and others like it) and look at my Lumia 950, feeling sorry for it. Then I pinch myself and realise that Windows 10 Mobile actually works. And my phone has all I need - tap to wake, tap to close, glance screen, the apps (too grown up for Snapchat), live tiles... It's quick, smooth and fully functional. And it has USB type C with fast charging - and wireless charging. And a gorgeous amoled screen. And the screen, left and right is virtually edge to edge - swipe down at the bottom and there's even more screen. The camera still remains unbeaten even when compared to today's flagships that cost zillions of dollars. Oh, and it has a headphone jack too. I've played around with friends' Android phones and iPhones. Android - it works. iPhone - you're kidding, people buy that stuff? When Microsoft launched the 950 it had every forward thiking component (bar fingerprint reader, granted) and with successive OS updates it really is, like I said before, fully functional. Oh, and continuum. That works too. So what's the problem? And that question is put to Microsoft. You get something right and then abandon it? If we can all get over the fact there's nothing to buy come the end of life of our WM 10 devices, as of today WM 10 - and my 950 - fulfill every need I have as a phone user. We talk down the future of WM10 rather than talk up the OS as it stands today - and that is Microsoft's fault. A new WM 10 phone range wouldn't hurt, would it Microsoft? You've done all the leg work after all.
  • Im with you there, the alterantives are just poor.
  • Did you just describe W10M as "quick, smooth and fully functional"? Wow, just wow... just when you think you've heard it all :-). It's great this OS meets your needs but I couldn't disagree more strenously. If we're talking about WP7 or 8.1, yes, they were buttery-smooth and fast as heck but this junk, no way! My Lumia 950 is not only the worst smartphone or electronic device I've ever owned (and by a country mile), it's probaly the worst thing I've ever bought, certainly for the price, and this is after getting it swapped out under warranty last year AND replacing the defective original battery with one from Amazon.
  • Blimey, you've had some problems. Luck of the draw I guess. I'm not a WM 10 fanboy but perhaps I'm more forgiving. That said, you've got me looking at my phone again and feeling thankful I have one that works :)
  • No developer can be bothered to support it.  It's all about iOS and Android.
  • I agree 100%.  I too have a 950XP and it's still unsurpassed. However, why would I need a fingerprint reader when I have Hello? Works better, more secure, more convenient and faster.
  • works better, faster?? whan was the last time you compared it to a fingerprint unlock on Android or IOS?? save us from your fanboysm.
  • I've never seen a company (or its spin doctors) so determined to convince its most loyal customers that they're wrong. W10M on Lumia worked great and I love mine. They worrry about market share but the real issue is customer base. Getting out of the smartphone market is a foolish thing to do but alienating your most loyal customers is worse. Like it or Microsoft, your customers want phones. Concepts that I've seen proposed are super cool, but if you're trying to push "the ultimate mobile device" (phablets that can talk) everyone will still carry a phone. So instead of carrying one device (my Lumia 735), I'd have to carry two devices. It ain't going to happen. I'd rather carry my 735. If I want full Windows 10 capabilities, I'll use my laptop. The smartphone isn't going away. What can go away is your customers. Forget market share and make a great phone. 
     
  • I known windows mobile was gone, no new phones etc for some time still rocking my 950 (yes I like it) but a though struck me yesterday, what will be my next device, I cant face a andriod spyware and my company uses iphones which I just dont like and im not sure I could get along with as my daily driver. MS you need to get your act together or I'm just using skype.  
  • Microsoft  post  Apple Iphones smart phones went from Windows 7 to 8 to 8.1 and to Windows 10 mobile. What I  want frm Microsoft is to stop having their smart phone OS jump around like jumping beans. Therefore Microsoft's next smart phone OS should be a variation of the full Windows 10 Desktop PC OS and use the same Apps & programs with slight modifacatins. This way folks wont have to worry about buying a windows smart phones that goes obsolite every 2 years and they have to buy a new smart phone. Also since this smart phone would use Windows 10 store apps it would have apps when it comes to the market. more windows 10 apps will come to the windoes 10 store. Also Microsoft has to lower the cut for an app that is sold in it;s store so develpers get more money from the apps they sell there.
  • Didn't you just perfectly describe Windows 10 Mobile? They already tried that. It didn't work. Maybe they should move away from Windows and all the negative connotations it brings. It is time for something new, not the same failed strategies.
  • Didn't you just perfectly describe Windows 10 Mobile? They already tried that. It didn't work. Maybe they should move away from Windows and all the negative connotations it brings. It is time for something new, not the same failed strategies.
  • Oh man...what store apps? more will come? are you dreaming again?
  • Wow! Lots of replies to the comments from Jason! It seems he has spent more time replying to comments than writing this article!!! Where did he get his energy from? Possibly from the dark side of the moon during the Eclipse?  ;)
  • Looking at the proposed re-enactment of Courier/Surface Phone, a lot of duplication would result as people would still carry iPhone or Android phone.  Suppose Microsoft were to do a "thin-client" phone that was ultraslim- effectively only a thin wireless slab that would be powered by the Surface and contained a microphone and speaker?  That would solve the unsolvable problem of speaking on the phone while reading from or entering/writing on a screen.  Maybe the Surface phone will be two devices- a Surface and a Phone.  Remember Phones? Everyone used to have them. They were boxes you talked into.
  • This sounds good, I like the foldable design for PCs, but what about non-foldable smartphone factor? I think those won't' go away ever, so Microsoft shold make one also, 
  • Clarification is needed.  Each iteration of Windows on smartphones is dead.  Windows Mobile, the old Windows Mobile, 6, 7, etc, is dead.  Windows Phone, 8 and 8.1, is dead. Even Windows 10 Mobile is dead, so far as we know, because there is no new development and there will not be any new development, and it is in maintenance mode as we are only getting security updates at this point.  No apps being upgraded whatsoever except for those official apps from Microsoft. Andromeda is the next thing.  The question is, will it be dead in a few years. History suggests to us that it will.  We know that Windows, as an operating system for smartphones, will never die.  But we do know that with each paradigm shift, Microsoft has introduced incompatibilities with older hardware that simply go unresolved.  And it takes that imcompatibility of the apps code in step with what has transpired on the operating system.  In other words, Skype should have new features that are unlocked on newer version of hardware. Nothing wrong with that.  But there is no logical reason why Skype should not work on older hardware, when it is a system app.  Skype is a communication app; Microsoft wants it to be more, and that is okay, but why remove that basic compatibility from older hardware.  Why throw the baby out with the bathwater. This is the problem I have with Windows on a smartphone.
  • Each product has a lifecycle when it comes to windows phone it ends at the beginning of the release
  • This is good for Windows Phone
  • Jason, it's time to wake up.
  • Jason, There is nothing “good” about the death of Windows Mobile, at least not from Microsoft’s perspective. I offer you myself as a case study in the matter. As of 3 weeks ago I switched to Android. I was one of the last hold outs and owned only WP devices up to that point. I have been a loyal WP user for years, ever since the HTC Titan running WP 7. It was obvious to me that after 2 years I wasn’t going to see a viable replacement for my Lumia 950, so I finally purchased a Samsung Galaxy S8+ along with a Samsung Gear S3. Now it could be argued that Microsoft didn’t lose anything since they didn’t have anything to sell, but that is not the entirety of it. I will never go back to MS now. After using this phone the Android platform has now made a lifelong customer. It’s fast, has a variety of apps and options, and sans the live tiles, is every bit as good and even better than the MS mobile OS. But it doesn’t stop there. I have also cancelled my Groove music pass, since Spotify works better with my Gear S3. I no longer have any reason to use Cortana, or Bing, or even Edge. That means any data they were getting from me is gone too. I will no longer be making app purchases on their platform as I no longer have a reason to. And again, most importantly I never will again. MS really screwed the pooch on phones and it’s entirely their fault. They refused to use their limitless resources to compete in the mobile space and that’s on them. And it probably means they will never recover, Surface Phone or not.  I really feel like an idiot for waiting this long because once I see what at top of the line phone can do I regret waiting this long.  I am not nearly as optimistic as you are, and let’s not forget this is not the first time they have tried the mobile space and failed.  
  • Give that man a cookie ! I jumped of the ship on december 2015 with Oneplus One and I am so happy with the change. Jason's articles looks more like a political speach to cover up a giant scandal than anything else. Speaking a lot to say few and everything based on air and speculations ! Face it : Microsoft totally failed in mobile ! Microsoft sacrificed Nokia for nothing (which I will never forgive them) ! Nokia just came back and is already doing better than Microsoft in mobile !
  • That's a great point Foxhound91. Why DID MS even buy Nokia? The only phones they made were way worse than anything Nokia made. In fact, in many ways they were a step backwards. We were all hoping for a Surface phone when they bought Nokia and what we got was absolute garbage.
  • As I said on Twitter and I am here to read it... still stand by what I said... https://twitter.com/TheCoolDave/status/899770259573534720 So, Microsoft spends BILLIONS (yes, with a B). Then, the stories come, and many promises, apps, features, new models.... Year after year, Apps are coming ! Apps are coming but, never came. The after all this, they just ABANDON every one. Just stop off the face of the earth. No promotion, apps fall away and ANYTHING FROM MICROSOFT ? NOT A FREAKING(I want to use a much worse word than that) WORD. So, I have 6 had different WIndows Phone models....tons of money on apps, and what do I get for it ? A company who just abandons us.  And Jason, you claim it's a GOOD THING ?  REALLY ? I like you wriitng style, much better than others on here but, This subject a VERY SORE subject here. I am not the only one here who feels COMPLETLY screwed by Microsoft (not the first time and not the last...but, the last with a mobile product at least for me)  
  • Where are the APPs? Microsoft needs to invest in APP and AI plugin to attract users. I just bought a windows 10 tablet to replace my dying Surface RT. Browsing with Edge is way faster than Microsoft Explorer on RT so I don’t need all the APPs, but I’m still missing a few. I need to borrow the family iPad mini… Will I have to buy an iPhone with this new "Microsoft Mobile divice"? For Microsoft success, APP is still a must.
  • Pmartineau,  short answer...YES.... Long answer.....I recently contacted Texture magazine,  regarding their non function windows 10 app.  I got a canned response back,  we are glad you chose texture for your reading pleasure.  We try to make everything awesome.    Thank you.   thats it.  No, we are working on it.  NO, sorry to hear about your App not working and there is a team to try to correct this....NOTHING.  Meaning...windows apps are far from important to most companies etc.   Simple.   So my advice is to most defenantly get an iphone to have the apps you need.  And keep your windows deivce for desktop computing.  
  • I've said this in the past and understand this is why there is a complete damper on the release of any new devices over the last 18mths by Microsoft. They've been critizised for killing off a device/system when there were recent releases. Well we haven't had a recent release for so long there must be a bigger play in the game. Any device I buy I get for a multitude of reasons. In the early days I wanted a decent camera included in a phone. Eventually this became reality, and I wanted a decent organiser bundled with my phone which also became real. But mostly now I'm purchasing a device that has a great camera/organiser system over the telephony option which has become a minor feature when it comes to the device I'm carrying. Everything I want to do with this device that I seek has a great camera, awesome and syncronised organisational features, synced files and folders, allows me to keep up with work, keeps time, allows me to chat to anyone in the world at no cost, etc etc, ohh and I can make and receive phone calls if I choose. It's no longer a smartphone I choose, it is this personal PC in my pocket that will do everything I need and desire to do. I've been looking forward to this time for the last few years, and the light is seen at the end of the tunnel. #BringItOn  
  • Hi Jason, nice analysis as usually but w10mobile is still alive and will have support from MS until new era comes (and little bit beyond  I suppose:) ) And it's not death, it's evolution and could be a revolution in the world of mobile technology as iPhone was a years ago. The problem is, most of the people don't like changes and don't understand innovations. They just want "their Lumia's" and don't realize that they will get much more. "A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them.” - Steve Jobs “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” - Henry Ford How can people tell you what they want if they haven’t seen it before? If we ask them what they want, we’ll end up doing Swan Lake every year!” - Mario D’Amico   So, they just don't know yet, but they will love a new mobile device for sure and forget about w10mobile in a second. ;)
  • What are you smoking? seems very good
  • Galljinocka, While I 100% agree with you in your message.  I would say Microsoft does not have the chops to pull it off under current leadership.  They are the same as blackberry,  or current apple.   NO VISION.   Just bean counting, status quo same old same old.  I love my iphone,  how it works,  and how you can get just about ANYTHING for it.  I am, however, under no circumstance,  thinking its "revolutionary" like the apple fanboys think upon every new release.  Hence the reason I never jumped on the iphone 7 bandwagon.  My 6s is just as good and nothing compelling came from apple with the 7 to make me upgrade.  Since Jobs Died,  apple has released NOTHING new and ground breaking.  Even going backwards with their laptops etc using previous gen chips, No touchscreen, etc.   So,  the possibility is there for microsoft to blow peoples minds,  Under current leadership (who are more concerned with counting their money, and cloud services),  I am not holding my breath for an amazing, make everyone want one, device.  
  • Event the vendor GDP can make a pocket pc woth good quality, why Microsoft cannot make a good interface to use for these kind of small screen device?...i cant understand why.
  • Hi Jason, thank you for writing yet another deep insight into the Mobile story. Assuming your guess is correct, and that Microsoft will position these devices as a kind of Trojan horse, it does not make sense to me why Win10 Mobile had to die for that vision. Assuming Microsoft had not abandoned Windows 10 Mobile, and it was being developed on par with Windows 10 for PC, then the issue would only be that Windows 10 Mobile would, from a hardware perspective be less attractive once these trojan phones arrived, resulting in the market slowly abandoning the smartphone hardware. Then it would be the consumers abandoning the hardware and not Microsoft itself. And if this new hardware platform failed, then at least everyone would still have Windows 10 Mobile until the next attempt at a transition was ready. My question is WHY you think it was a neccesity for Microsoft to drop Windows 10 Mobile, in order to be succesful with their upcoming category device. Is it merely for the reasons in which I read from your article?
    "Dropping Windows 10 Mobile allows Microsoft to focus on its strength, PCs. "
    "Additionally, without Windows 10 Mobile or a phone, Microsoft's messaging to OEM partners will be clear and definitive." Again, thank you for writing it.
  • I just hope Microsoft will give support to actual W10M devices until they present that "next big thing/device". I've been using a Lumia since 2013 and I can´t even imagine switching to iOS or even Android (worst scenario for me). Right now I´m using a 650 and although I know it isn´t the flagship smartphone that I wanted (950 here in Mexico was so difficult to find/get), I am very pleased with the refined experience of a OS in a phone that W10M is.
  • W10m practically it's an abandoware... the other MS mobile OS end up like this. The strategy of gaining users in android and iOS with their apps also won't work, people just won't use since there are many other superior options. I just gave up using Onedrive and Skype i was the only one using those MS services among family, friends, co workers... not a match of GDrive and Whatsapp. In the short term, MS will become a B2B corporation with no much interest in the consumer market. The current MS seems more interested in provide services to another corporations like cloud and enterprise products. Probably the next in the line for getting axed will be the Xbox brand.
  • thanks for tagging me in this one Jason. I had missed it. I guess for me both seeing WM in business and personally, its all just a bit 'weird' the path they took with it. I understand carving a niche with this new concept. I just can't see it going that well. Sure some hardcore mobile people might be exited about this all in one power phone but I think that's more niche that WM ever was heck we hit 10% market share in UKat one stage its a phone and works well as a phone. This is crazy power for someone really just needing Mail.Calendar/contacts and basic social media apps. But good read