Skip to main content

Microsoft's Windows 10 Mobile 'beta test' is almost over, and ARM-based ultramobile PCs cometh

With just over 20 percent of the less than one percent market share Window phone has of the smartphone space, Windows 10 Mobile's uninspiring presence likely represents Microsoft's strategic exit from smartphones in preparation for its introduction of a new mobile device category.

Windows Phone 8.1, for which Microsoft recently ended support, comprises the bulk of Microsoft's meager smartphone share. That leaves Windows 10 Mobile as the only supported representative of Microsoft's Windows-on-mobile vision, presumably until the debut of some form of ultramobile PC with telephony, possibly powered by CShell.

The most ardent Windows 10 Mobile fans left have enrolled in Microsoft's Insider's Program to gain early access to new OS builds. For many who find Microsoft's silence regarding Windows 10 Mobile's future and its broader mobile vision troubling, the Insider Program serves as a legitimate, and relatively consistent means to gain the slightest hints of Microsoft's direction in mobile.

With Microsoft's withdrawal of Lumia smartphones from the market, no marketing of Windows 10 Mobile in support of OEM partners HP and Alcatel, Microsoft's doing the bare minimum to maintain Windows 10 Mobile before possibly pulling the plug.

Microsoft, are you using us?

So why would Microsoft keep Windows 10 Mobile alive by releasing new OS builds? And why have an official contact person and spokeswoman for the platform's progress, in the person of Insider Chief Dona Sarkar?

Well, access to a "person at Microsoft in-the-know" excites users and inspires feelings of involvement in the future success of the platform. Simply put, it keeps users engaged with the platform, and their usage and feedback are beneficial to the development process. This is what Microsoft wants.

It's common practice for companies to engage in internal testing (dogfooding) or limited beta testing with a small group of users to glean information and to improve products before release. Rarely, if ever, does beta testing occur for over a year with millions of testers for a product that technically has a "pseudo market presence."

Windows 10 Mobile has become a mere beta test, and fans are the testers.

That's essentially what's happening with Windows phone fans using Windows 10 Mobile who are part of Microsoft's Insider's Program. With no real market presence, Windows 10 Mobile has virtually devolved into a mere beta test for Windows 10 on ARM, cellular and other features for future implementation in Windows 10 on ARM devices, and fans are the beta testers.

Transition from smartphones to cellular PCs to ultramobile PCs

Cellular PCs running full Windows on ARM, which should begin hitting the mass market this fall, may be the first step toward telephony-enabled ultramobile PCs.

Microsoft will use the concept of always-connected cellular PCs, where users will purchase data from the Windows Store, to help create mindshare for the new type of always-connected telephony-enabled ultramobile PCs that may follow.

Windows Chief Terry Myerson stated Microsoft's continued investments in mobile are because of the effects of ARM and cellular connectivity on the future technical landscape:

There are really two things that are unique about Windows Mobile. [Cellular] connectivity, and ... ARM processors ... both ... have a role in the technical landscape of the future.

What Microsoft is currently gleaning about those technologies as it keeps Windows 10 Mobile "breathing," and fans involved with the platform are likely the final stages of research and development as Microsoft prepares a move to Windows 10 for ARM-based, telephony-enabled ultramobile PCs. This PC-oriented strategy is consistent with Corporate VP of the Operating Systems Group Joe Belfiore's recent statement that Windows on ARM is for PCs.

Thank you for your service

Soon Microsoft may no longer need the Windows phone fans that have been dogfooding platform features that are likely bound for a future category of Microsoft-inspired ultra mobile PCs with telephony.

If Windows 10 Mobile has devolved into a testing platform and Windows phone fans are the "beta testers," and we are indeed on the precipice of a shift to Windows on ARM on ultramobile PCs with telephony, that beta test may soon be over.

Now Read

Hey Windows phone fans - Microsoft doesn't need you for Surface phone to succeed

What is Microsoft's intelligent edge and how does it affect mobile?

Microsoft's Surface 'phone' should include AR glasses, a pen and exclusive apps

How Microsoft can ensure Surface phone success

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

329 Comments
  • Thanks for reading folks!!! So what are your thoughts. LET'S TALK!!!
  • We all know Windows 10 Mobile, has been troubled from the start. Windows 10 Mobile was intended to be a successful iteration of Windows 10 on smartphones and small tablets. That didn't happen. In its current state, in use with several million enthusiasts, it is not a mainstream OS, and isn't marketed to the masses. Ironically, it is, however, the official representation of Microsoft's mobile platform and powers Windows phones like the HP Elite x3 and Alcatel Idol Pro, currently in the market. Upon its initial release, it was infamously plagued with problems that irked consumers of the Lumia's 950 and 950 XL. Though it has since improved, the overarching theme of this relatively unpopular OS, which has only been emphasized with Windows phone's decline, is that Windows 10 Mobile is an incomplete work in progress. And not because the OS is an ever evolving software-as-a-service. For many fans, however, Windows 10 Mobile serves thier needs, and many will remain committed to the platform despite Microsoft's using them as free beta testers of features on a product that may soon be phased out. We've endured so much already after all. What are your thoughts.🤔
  • so MS is effectively put phones on backburner. WoA n ultramobile PCs will only complement phones n not replace it. so MS is not looking for a share in mobile pie at least for now. without a share in Low/Medium range, Ms cannot make a return to phones market. I'll now wait for SE2 or Nokia 8/9.
  • If I was in charge of Microsoft Windows I would do this: Replace WinMo with WoA. Bring all Windows Phone apps to the Windows 10 store. Allow Android emulators in the app store for ARM devices, but don't publish Android apps in the store. Make Cortana smartwatches, thermostats, speakers, in-car as companions for every OS.
    Build a device ecosystem around Cortana the way Amazon is doing with Alexa. Instead of competing with Android/iOS compete with the Alexa ecosystem. Move Microsoft Wallet functionality into Cortana. Focus heavily on getting retail stores/banks to support significant Cortana integration. Use the Samsung pay method to work with magnetic strip credit card systems. Expand Cortana to include use of mobile device cameras and NFC (Cortana can deposit your checks at your banks, manage your wallet/credit cards/gift cards payments, identify objects and it's dimensions, guess the age of a person, update your social media accounts, find the best prices on goods, order food from local restaurants, recommend music based on your mood, inform you when your friends are playing a specific Xbox game etc.). Move HoloLens to WoA and recruit LG, HTC, and Huawei to build consumer versions of HoloLens. Enable continuum docking for HoloLens. Create a foldable 4-in-1 Surface Mobile that runs on WoA (phablet, tablet, laptop keyboard cover, desktop continuum).
  • Sounds really easy, I wonder why nobody who's in charge at Microsoft has thought this.
  • Thumbs up! That's the way to go and never give up on regular costumers, young or old!
  • Wow, I thought of the same thing this morning. Put Cortana in everything they can. They need to make Edge for Android and IOS with Cortana Built in it. They also need a Cortana Extension in FireFox, Chrome, Vivaldi, Opera
  • They should have done this back when Cortana WAS the best. Right now it can't even repeat a text message after it reads it the first time. It has a LONGGGGG way to go to compete with Alexa.
  • Maybe I'm missing something, but I haven't had Alexa read me a text message at all. Echo based messages and notifications yea, but not text messages. She has no clue I even own a phone. 
  • Sure lets emulate android OS on windows ..AND SLOW DOWN THE SYSTEM!, you must be living in a dream cause android emulations don't run on 32mb of ram(it needs a whole emulation layer and an entire app store handler service+user account for the google store=a jumbled up mess) they are meant to hog memory unlike Windows or iOS the difference of OS optimization is clear as day vs night, allowing android emulators in the store = stepping on peoples rights to complain about patent infringement, that's the last thing Microsoft needs from google. We already had enough with YouTube being turned into a link(no google apps whatsoever on a market of 500million+ windows 10 devices where pretty much all the TOP social sites have already made their apps not to mention in UWP) and Microsoft being slapped in the face by googles monopoly to control its market. Samsung pay method ? are we talking about stepping on another patent right landmine yet again cause i think things aren't simple like that nor would systems/programs work so easily out of nowhere, its not a piece of puzzle to simply place and fix, different platform different hardware, different methods. HoloLens is something that is unique in its own and has a good future once introduced to the market through Microsoft, nevertheless should or would Microsoft release information on such a valuable/profitable/defining/landscaping product to companies that could simply dish it out for other platforms rather than using it for the benefit of Windows 10 cause i don't see others like Google/Apple willing contributing anything to Microsoft's latest platform that which has gained notable traction. its past mid 2017, google has yet to introduce a valid/useful app to the Windows store. A true Microsoft user would prefer to seek solutions from within the platform rather than making it into some kind of emulation lagfest/store profit & dev interest killer like blackberry turned out cause once you let the bugs in, they never go out again...ever, and some of us truly know how that ended. lastly, i don't see Apple's Siri everywhere nor Google Voice on other platforms as a single service untied to one of their products, providing a entire product untied to Microsoft's platform = making the platform itself unnecessary = death of platform, something so simple yet unseen to the not so keen eye. You do have some nice idea's but implementation is "key" file , products and services go hand in hand thus profit is gained only if both are tied together Cortana is a service and Windows 10 is a product if everyone had access to Cortana's services completely without Windows 10 then nobody needs Windows 10 they can just have Cortana ..whats the selling point ? = no platform gain, you could say "future market building or sum it up as future investment" but this is a product in a business, if we give out the whole candy jar instead of giving the candy is there any real purpose for that customer to come back again tomorrow?.
  • Some of the things you talk about are highly capable, and what we expect, of a quantum computer....
  • Hire this man.
  • Cortana?lol it's not even available in most parts of the world. Typical pure American thinking that America is the world well it's not.
    Look at Windows phone it had a a nice share in Europe but MS never did anything to boost or use that they even killed the only company Nokia who did care.
    Bing the same thing only US focused.
  • Nokia didn't care very long. They were leaving because whatever share they gained in Europe wasn't sustainable. It didn't matter how many L520 they sold at a loss if those customers didn't upgrade to better Windows phones and didn't buy apps.
  • I am classy European, but I get it dude, and you should too. After all these are all american corporations and they have the centiment to release their products first if not only in america.
  • English Cortana allowed globally.
    Cortana language & country settings and phone language & country settings ALL totally separated.
    Continue expanding local language Cortana very fast.
    Spread Cortana everywhere! (IoT, cars ... imagine all of it)
  • Who can trust MS that is even dumping PCs support because of the processor? Who would buy a phone or whatever you want to call it to soften the fact that MS Dumped us? Since my ICOn is was already clear MS had no idea about phones and then I fell for the 950.  Just usefull for the bare needs but nothing else.  What a waste. MS only cares about enterprise not consumers and this is the plain trhuth.
  • It's Intel, that is dumping support. Maybe they are punishing Microsoft for WinOnARM.
  • Wait until your WoA PC stops receiving updates after 2 years because Qualcomm doesn't provide driver support any longer!
  • As far as W10M is concerned, it's been updated to the point to where it's perfectly fine, if not pleasurable, for everyday use. Grove, OneDrive, Office, all work great, and the experience is getting better. Of course it could use a few more helpful features, but this is in no way as incomplete as WP7.0... The only thing I need at this point are apps, and devices.
    But, I understand that going forward there's no use in worring about a future smartphone running W10 mobile.... My point is that if MS intends on using all of the elements of W10M for the mobile UI element in Cshell for devices like "Surface Phones" I'm ok with that. I'm not only ok with it, but W10M's start screen, and the other W10 mobile elements we see, and use, today are what I want to see on a "Surface Phone"... This stuff needs to carry over, and from what we see with the insider program, the intent seems to be just that.. MS's continued development of W10M is not a waste of time, it's the opposite. In actually it's probably not the development of W10M rather the mobile "section" of Cshell. That alone should tell us that MS has intent to keep Windows in our pockets. It's a no brainer.
  • Rumors indicate the W10M replacement won't look anything like Windows phone. They would be crazy to keep that failed UI. They should allow manufacturers to create their own shells even if they can't add features. I will be surprised if that happens though. Microsoft is no longer the platform for "choice".
  • No, rumors suggest that. Just stop. You're annoying. Quit replying to my comments. Go away, and stop your negative trolling. That's your first warning.
  • https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/117153/microsofts-looking-reboot-mobile-... "I have been hearing about the software update for some time and the added hardware component makes sense as the company is pursuing “new experiences” with this device. Additionally, the UI is expected to be different than what we know today as Windows Mobile but the exact changes are still evolving as we are in the early days of development of this experience."
    Thurrott more than suggested that. Microsoft would be crazy to create another Tile interface device. How many times do you think it should fail before they leave it behind? 
  • Unless they plan to launch in 5 years, there will be tiles. Because if they don't want tiles they could remove them in the Fall Creators update. I don't think that there is a single person who hates tiles. Yes they might hate many half baked apps that were made in the era of modern Windows, but not the tiles itself.
  • Tile isn't going anywhere. It is on W10. If they are making one Windows, it will have tile capability.
  • Then it will fail like every single product they have released that centered with Tiles. I don't think they will continue it. It would be madness at this point.
  • The one Windows thing is over. They split Mobile from W10M development. They may still run the same apps and core but there is no indication that the UI will stay the same. Tiles are marginalized in W10, it wouldn't be hard for Microsoft to remove them and if Windows 8 is any indication, complaints would be minimal.
  • I said stop responding to me. I'm calling harassment. Last warning. I'm not playing with you. I will report you.
  • Can't handle being wrong?
  • Yes, I can't handle being wrong. Now, I'm claiming harassment. Reporting you. This is my Last communication with you.
  • Typical MS fanboy...can dish it but not take it....whats wrong Rodney....assless chaps on the harley too tight?
  • rodney, cut the crap fanboy. Wake up from your fantasy dream already and stop kissing MS @$$.
  • Why?
  • because your kool-aid drinking fanboy drivel is getting really old.....we all know that w10m is going to be totally put in the "trench" very soon.   To think otherwise shows that you have way to much MS kool-aid in your veins.  Maybe its all those vibrations from the hardly doing it to you.  ha ha ha.
  • I personally think that MICROSOFT should DITCH QUALCOMM and partner up with NVIDIA and include an DESKTOP BASED GPU like the TEGRA X2 and also become the 1st company to include 16 to 32 gigabytes of fast RAM for AAA GAMING ON THE GO
  • 😂😂😂😂😂
    For Qualcomm to be working with MS in mobile is a blessing, if not for the name alone.
  • I totally agree!!! Google used the X1 with a Maxwell GPU in the Pixel C tablet and it is still fast and fluid. The Nvidia processors if they can work with telephony would seem like a good platform to build upon. Also there are several people on here that should really think outside of the box. I'm 54 and I am excited about the future of tech. Tech doesn't have to look like what I think it should. Some new things show up that I have never seen nor have ever thought of. Doesn't mean that they are not good because I didn't think of them or even like the new item or idea. Maybe look beyond the cell phone. Because I grew up in a time where phones were on the wall at my house and a personal computer had to have cassette tapes to run on and were bought at Radio Shack. The world is wide open for stuff to be invented. There is no telling what will be created during your lifetime. Don't change for the sake of change, change for the sake of something better!!!
    #offmysoapboxnow
  • Doesn't matter at this point. You already pointed out that MS doesn't need the remaining WP user base. I agree. MS might as well milk it for whatever they can still get out of it, although I'm sceptical this even amounts to a public beta test anymore. Everything being delivered to W10M users is merely a side affect of efforts made for W10. Nothing more. W10 is what matters (which is the same thing as W10oA). Anyway, the phrase "powered by CShell" is weird. CShell is a launcher. It's the UI layer of the OS. CShell doesn't power anything. That's like saying a BMW is powered by the steering wheel. The UI is a control point, like a steering whell, not like the motor.
  • @Jason Ward, some questions 4you: Did Microsoft forced you or anyone to be free beta tester?  Do you think that we'll have one platform on the same OS for all devices in the near future and could it be still "Windows insider" for Windows or MS is going to shut down the entire insider program? Can you be just happy because of an exciting future and the new tehnologies & new device/es? At least try for a moment!
  • Jason I have warned these guys above about trolling on me. Ive gave them multiple warnings and now they are harassing me. I have told them that I do not wish to communicate with them any longer, and I will not answer to their comments any longer. Now I'm asking WC to do thier part and let these guys know that intentional harassment, and trolling is not allowed. I will hit the report buttons for each person that I have asked to leave me alone. Thanks for your help.
  • Waaaaahhhhhhh.....Rodney can't take it....WAAAAHHHHHHH....give it but can't take it.  The harley brotherhood would so dissapointed...your supposed to be a bad ass when Riding one....not a whiney little snowflake....
  • im confused Jason. why is all the talk about the impending end of W10 mobile and yet, and yet, Microsoft keep this system breathing when in fact it wont be the system they use when the new MobileWhatever comes out whenever it is supposed to? maybe I have misread the articles but i am confused, cheers, drew.
  • I'm in agreement with you. The only ones calling for the death of Win10 Mobile are the new media outlets. Microsoft has repeatedly said, time and time again, that they are not giving up on Win10 Mobile. They continue to release upgrade after upgrade to it. The Microsoft apps are constantly being updated and pushed out. We may not like how they are going about it, the fact that they lost a huge user base and opportunity when they bought Nokia and then left them, however, that doesn't mean they are leaving Win10 Mobile. The full Win10 on Arm doesn't even make sense for mobile phones unless they are basically going to replicate the UX interface on phones exactly as it is today but provide the entire x32/x64 architecture in Continuum to run full apps. In which case, what's the different between Win10 Mobile + Continuum vs. Win10 on ARM + Continuum? Sounds like the same end goal at that point which is to provide a "mobile" UX interface but the ability to run full 32/64bit apps, so why call for the death of Win10 "Mobile" when it may be nothing more than just shifting the platform slightly to add proper emulation to it?
  • Yep, even in a very recent article on WC I noted MS at high level poo-pooed the idea of W10 ARM making it to pocketable devices, stating they have WM10 for that, and saying W10 ARM is for desktop style experiences on fairly large devices only. So for a new class of laptop or Surface style 2-in-1. Perhaps in slimline desktop devices. Not in the 'ultra portable' world. Perhaps that will change, this is MS after all so trust isn't really a factor here, but right now MS are making some confusing statements that very much under one the concept being pushed by this article.
  • The big difference is that Continuum on W10M cannot run x32/x64 apps, not even store packaged ones through Centenial.  It can only run Store apps which are adapted to Continuum. With Windows on ARM, Continuum would run x32/x64 apps and hopefully not only store packaged ones but regular ones.
  • WoARM will x86, not x64...
  • It'll be ARM64 not x86 or x64. However it will have the ability to run applications built for win32 (x86) using an emulation layer and native ARM64 applications.
  • Because it gives them a platform to work out issues with Cshell and resizing for apps and whatever else in this dimension of scale.
  • W10M technical elements (code) is still Windows 10 code.. This code is active code, and the elements can be used in future W10 products, and system like with Cshell... What you're using today technically isn't going anywhere, rather merging with 'desktop" if you want to look at it like that... One OS that's literally adaptable across form factors, and screen size. The "final" step in One Windows... So, what you see as continued development for "W10M" is just development for elements to be extracted, and used, with Cshell... The naming is arbitrary, so don't let it put up walls in your mind. XBOX, Desktop, Mobile, HoloLens, IOT, are just Windows 10 code. UIs are skin deep.. Imaging CShell as just skin deep, and Windows as all being the same on the inside.... The main thing to understand is that with W10, and W10M (the core), MS did all the work to where the elements are compatible. We've past that point a few years ago... Now, MS can play around with W10, making new "versions" as they please. For example W10s.. Just a version of W10. This is where MS dreamed of being a decade ago, and now they're here... This is what will make a Surface Phone not jut a smartphone, but special, a true PC. This is what ends separate update branches. Your Surface Phone, Pro, Laptop, Desktop, HoloLens, Xbox, and whatever, will update on a single W10 branch, if MS has it's way... Sick.. And, that also means that MS as a company will have to work as a single entity, instead of a bunch of non synergistic divisions. That will benefit all. That has tremendous benefits for developers. Think about that.
  • Some good points, rodneyej. A lot of the naysayers seem to forget about MS's long term push for one Windows and a unified platform. We are witnessing those first steps in the (soon to be) unified W10.
  • Actually, we're witnessing the third step!!... The first true steps started way back with Windows 8, then the launch of W10 on different form factors.. Now, they are pulling W10 together. The 4th step will be the last step towards a completely unified platform.
  • @rodneyej And no, you're still wrong about this. There will always be a version of W10M that is seperate from W10. It likely won't be called W10M, but it will still be W10 without Win32, which is all W10M is.
  • cant blame him, WC carried over this message for a long time. Even WoA will not be same/close to same as W10, its more of W10M with X86 emulation.
  • I don't blame rodneyej for not understanding. I do blame him for speaking as though his understanding of the subject were far beyond what it actually is though. However, I disagree with you too. W10oA will in fact just be W10, simply recompiled for ARM and with an x86 emulator thrown in. That is all. W10oA will include Win32, which instantly makes it completely very different from W10M, as not includeing Win32 is W10M's defining trait. Providing a x86 emulator for an OS like W10M, which due to the lack of Win32 will only ever run UWP apps, makes no sense, since UWP apps are generally architecture neutral, i.e. they will run on any CPU without an emulator. The whole W10oA naming borders on being a marketing gimick. We've had plenty of versions of Windows in the past which ran on CPU architectures different from x86. Intel Itanium. Alpha. MIPS, PowerPC. None of these versions of Windows got a different name. They were all just Windows. If we went back to a more technical time with less marketing W10oA would also just be called W10. With the exception of the added x86 emulator and the compiler used to traslate the source code into executable binary format, there is not difference between W10 and W10oA.
  • Nopers... Cshell will fool users like you into thinking there are different versions...🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
    .......
    What is so hard for some of you guys to understand the concept of one OS that can "shape shift" to fit any device form factor, or screen?
    Why are you not getting that?
    Naming is arbitrary. With Cshell there will be only one Windows, but it will appear to look different, and behave different, because the shell is adaptable, modular. No, only one version of Windows. We've been talking about this for years....
    What you guys are talking about is the CURRENT way MS has different iterations of Windows10 on XB, Desktop, Mobile, HoloLens, IOT, and so fourth. That is not what MS is planning for the FUTURE. MS wants One Windows that's intelligent enough to adapt on the fly for any form factor. That's what Cshell is all about.
    You're talking about now, I'm taking about the future of Windows with Cshell.
  • I can guarantee you that my undertanding of CShell, what it is, how it works, and what it can and can't do is far beyond your own. I understand what you think I'm not grasping. You are wrong. The irony is that your own understanding of the topic is too shallow for you to see that it's you who is missing the real point. If you think MS will install all of Windows Server on an IoT device then you are seriously delusional. I really hope that's not what you're thinking. Those two versions of Windows are the two extremes. MS will continue to ship those to versions of Windows seperately, and also a few intermediary versions that cull further components from the distribution the smaller/slimmer the distribution is. That will not change However, all these versions of Windows will be generated from the same code baser. That is what "One Windows" refers to. You have a very naive view that "One Windows" refers to the binary components of each distribution and that these will actually be the same for every device Windows runs on. That is just FUD.
  • @andrew bainbridge The folks at WCentral are also baffled by this. That's why you're not really getting explanations. This all makes more sense when you stop viewing W10M as a seperate product. MS has one Windows code base. From that they can generate every version of Windows. That includes W10M, W10/W10oA, W10 IoT etc. These different versions of Windows are defined only by which parts MS ommits from that code base. The largest version (W10 Server) includes everything while the smallest version includes almost nothing beyond OneCore (W10 IoT). The biggest delta in ommited functionality occurs between W10 and W10M. That step omits Win32. That's all W10M is... it's MS version of Windows without Win32! This version of Windows, the one that omits Win32, is something MS must keep around even if they don't offer it to customers/consumers. It's relevant to MS strategically. W10M is the most efficient and cheapest vehicle though which MS can privide UWP compatibility. In that sense W10M represents the purest form of Window's future. Given the same economies of scale, W10M will also run on much cheaper hardware than W10 ever will. Assuming MS doesn't give up on UWP, W10M will return at some point, although likely under a different name. However, at the end of the day, it will still be the exact same thing W10M has always been... MS' version fo Windows without Win32. That's why what we currently call W10M isn't dead and that's why MS will continue to develop it. However, W10M isn't just a smartphone OS. Even at its earliest stages it was also designed to run on tablets. We just think of it as a smartphone OS since that's all we've ever seen it on. With CShell W10M is now also a desktop OS (albeit limited to UWP and continuum enabled software). That's W10M's future. That's the role W10M is destined for and it will continue to evolve towards that goal. You're just not allowed to misinterpret that as MS intending to keep W10M on current smartphone around any longer than they must. At least for the moment, W10M on smartphones is dead, but the version of Windows without Win32 (what we currently call W10M) is alive and well. When (if?) we'll ever get a device running that version of Windows again is anyone's guess however.
  • After Creators update Windows 10 Mobile is removed from that single code base and it is not known when how and if it is going back.
  • @labsii Nobody I've talked to at MS shares your opinion. They actually claim the opposite. I'm calling BS. You have a source? Could it be that you're confusing "will no longer provide updates for existing W10M devices" with "is being removed from the code base"? Those aren't the same things. Removing W10M from the Windows code base isn't even really possible, because W10M is just a subset of W10. You can't remove it from the Windows code base without braking everything related to UWP for W10.
  • Windows 10 Mobile is not built from the current version of the Windows code, that's official. So now there is a code base from which new versions of Windows 10 Mobile are built and the code base for other SKUs which is enough to prove my claim that there is no more a single code base.  
  • @labsii You are misinformed, or poorly expressing yourself. There are multiple versions of W10M. They are all W10M however (some will later be merged back into the trunk while others will not be). The name of the branch from which updates are created and shipped out to customers using W10M smartphones is called feature2. This is simply a previous version of the W10 source code, which also includes W10M. There are many other branches from which W10M can also be built. MS maintains a seperate branch for almost every major feature in development. For example, CShell is also being developed in a seperate and newer branch (newer than feature2). W10M can also be built from the current W10 branch. Just because it's not being provided to you doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  
  • " W10M can also be built from the current W10 branch." " You have a source?" Oh I forgot you are the god and you don't need the source, you are the source, you can only ask other people for sources, your opionions are granted to be truth.
  • Yes, I do have a source. The MS employee's I work with as a software engineer. Having contacts isn't necessary though. You can just go back and read WCentral's article on CShell development. It is clearly stated that development occurs in a newly created branch. If MS can build W10M in that new branch, then they can clearly also build it from the trunk (current version of W10)  that it was branched from. Clearly I'm not a God. There is no reason to get snarky just because someone else knows more. 
  • We're not talking about what Microsoft 'could' do, but what they do. They could invest some money and build the phone if they want but they don't want to. There isn't a big difference between their decision not to build phones and their decision not to build Windows 10 Mobile from the current code base - it is a matter of their lack of commitment to the current platform. If you want to say that there is someone in Microsoft who consciously stopped all those new Windows 10 features to come to Mobile as they can do that but they don't want their consumers to receive the new features, then it should really raise a red alarm. So basically there are just two options - either Microsoft is trying to test the nervs of their customers in which case you are right (but it doesn't sound reasonable at all), OR they gave up of development of Windows 10 Mobile. I fully agree that the code is device independent and that in the future they can use it for whatever including building Windows 10 Mobile if they decide to invest some money in it. But if you don't understand that 'can' means nothing if that option is not used and no one intends to use it, watch Monty Python's 'Meaning of Life', first scene as far as I remember. Yes there will be probably a new form factor that will have an OS that will borrow at least something from previous Windows 10 Mobile efforts, but that's all I can say.
  • I personally believe it's the merging of elements from W10M into proper W10, and using Cshell to determine what form factor displays what, and how it behaves. Giving us 1 Windows that's suitable for any device. One modular version, rather than several version based off W10. That's what MS is working towards. What you guys are explaining is what we have now with Xbox, WM, W10, and HoloLens. That is not the future... The future is one modular W10 that can work across all those devices, and intelligently adapt across those device as needed. Cshell
  • truly speaking I don't feel bad if they are beta testing their software with our help....haha as you stated Jason many will not see it as being used
  • Wonder if I will be reading this nonsense next year (2018) ? Next year is just 4 months away... and you are still talking about UNICORNS !!!!
  • Thanks for reading😉
  • Yeah, unicorns are more real. I think Jadon can be successful in writing books for children with his fantastic fantasies.
  • In fact five months away.
  • Next year is 4 months away.....really !?
  • You're blaming Jason for something you don't want to do? You're blaming a man you've never met, know nothing about, doesn't control your finances, or time, and possibly live more than a thousand miles away from you, for something you don't want to do? Well, that's nuts. What's even nuttier is that you don't blame yourself for doing something you don't want to do. And, what's even nuttier than a squirrel **** than that is that you keep doing what you don't want to do.....
    ........
    But, you expect Jason to stop doing what he DOES want to do?🤔🤔🤔🤔
    Down here in Texas we would say "That don't make no damn sense".
  • Microsoft has become a huge arrogant company. For months if not years now the speculation about phone devices running a microsoft OS is ongoing. And it just does not end. "The ultimate phone", "It won't look like a phone of today", "Yeah, we'll make more phones"... The problem is with the current leadership of Microsoft. The current strategy of microsoft is as vague as it ever could be. No stance, no vision. Cloud could be everything, it means servers, cars, hardware, and you can probably also do your hair with it. I have spent hours and hours on the WM10 OS, I've written multiple articles as feedback, have tweeted multiple texts about problems to Microsoft. Never has even one MS engineer reacted to the quality feedback I gave. Never has anybody cared. I don't need your article Jason about whatever Microsoft is planning with its WM10 community. The community is dying, and let me tell you the real reason: the batteries and the equipment wears out. My Lumia 950xl battery is already swollen, i can only sometimes have a full time session, but most of the time my Lumia is crashing at unexpected times due to wear out. There simply won't be any beta tester or "fan" of the windows mobile operating system left in a very short time. The equipment is dying. Microsoft is failing big time on its fans, its market and its stance to their future customers, which are my children. Microsoft is a milk cow, nothing more. Milking office, windows, and some other "cloud" softwares. It will end soon, because there aren't any differentiators for microsoft to win more market share. Microsoft has become bloody arrogant and are completely mismanaging their customers. Completely!
  • What happened to the official Microsoft employees that joined Windows Central sometime back? Oh, what a wonder!
  • probably got fired
  • Jason, don’t tell me it took you 2 years to realize insiders are the testing team. :)) Nutella fired the dedicated testing teams, what did you think insider program was created for? And for sure you have seen now the mediocre quality that was delivered.
  • No, but some topics are better written for certain times or stages in a process.
  • Jason, I love your articles and believe you are generally correct about Microsoft's plans. However, I push back on one aspect of this: I think you do Microsoft and the fans a disservice when you say, "Microsoft doesn't need you." From a numbers perspective, that's clearly true. However, when it comes to launching something new and spreading the word, 1 raving fan is worth over 100 nonplussed casual customers (a marketing truth). Their dollars are equal from a sales perspective, but their impact on marketshare growth are far from equal. As you yourself point out, MS has Dona and continues to update via their Insider program. These are things MS is doing to keep fans interested in the hope that some of us will become the evangelists of the next big thing in mobile (presumably the ultramobile PC). When you say "Microsoft doesn't need you," it ups the anger level of many people significantly. Even those who might have still been positively inclined toward MS, read that and think, "well if MS doesn't care about me, than screw them!!" This reduces the chances that the ultramobile PC will succeed. I think your facts and analysis are correct, but I'd urge a friendlier message that emphasizes what MS is doing to bridge the gap between the phone of today and the ultramobile PC of tomorrow. I know that some phone users will have no use for it and there will be people the new product appeals to that don't currently use Windows 10 on phone (hopefully, since that's only .2% of the mobile marketplace), but that doesn't mean that we in the intersecting set of Windows 10 mobile users who would also jump on the ultramobile PC are not important for our ability to influence others.
  • Great writing Jason, I am reading all of these as a science fiction alike. Please, let them know if you can, that as in real estate everything is about Location Location Location, so in electronic devices, all is about Interface Interface Interface... So I do feel about Windows Mobile Interface, too much, too cryptic, too fluid, in two words - too complicated for every day use. 
  • Jason. I personally think that MICROSOFT should DITCH QUALCOMM and partner up with NVIDIA and include an DESKTOP BASED GPU like the TEGRA X2 and also become the 1st company to include 16 to 32 gigabytes of fast RAM for AAA GAMING ON THE GO
  • I generally enjoy reading your Warditorials, however this seems to be an extrapolation of your previous article. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy theories just as much as the other guy/girl, but this seems to have less substance than the rest.
    I also don't mean to be rude, but this "new ultramobile PC" that you keep referring to is beginning to be about as cancerous as the next lumia flagship that never was, but everyone kept talking about it. Give us facts and then flaunt the theory, please! And no, "windows on ARM" is not fact enough.
    And if we're into the theory business anyway: what do you think the chances are that MS is going to either spin their own chips or make a deal with another party. For their partners, like HP, dell, et al. it would make sense. For MS not so much.
  • Yes Lych, this article is a slight variation of the article from three days ago (Hey Windows phone fans — Microsoft doesn't need you for 'Surface phone' to succeed).  
  • You mention "millions of testers" while talking about W10M. Are you sure there are that many? According to the internet, I would bet there are but a handful of us. Right now I would prefer to become Insider under NDA and receive faster-than-fast ring builds and kill the public rings. The remaining users/lovers/haters are too bitter to provide any useful criticism.
  • The term "beta test" might come as a shock to anyone who paid $500 for a Lumia 950 in 2015. A beta test OS and beta test phone. The anniversary update of Windows 10 Mobile made it almost usable. Maybe purchasers of the Alcatel Pro 4, about to be launched in the UK, should make sure they spot the word "beta" on the Microsoft Store in case they think it's a real product intended to be used as smartphone by consumers. You are a little late. The slogan "the beta test is over" was used by Microsoft in 2010 to herald the brave new world of Windowsphone 7. Those 7 years seem to have got Microsoft to the same place all over again. Deja Vu. There is a mealy mouthed tendency to say "mobile device" when consumers want to hear "phone". Microsoft tease a ultra mobile surface with telephony when they mean expensive premium enterprise product that isnt a phone. In my view there is a phone business somewhere for the prosumer who likes neither Android or IOS and is attracted to Microsoft's ecosystem. Microsoft should go to IBM in 1980 for inspiration. In that year they realised that business users were putting micro computers on their desks running spreadsheets like Visicalc. They realised too that the corporate structure of IBM was ill-equiped to create a visionary out of the box type competing platform. So they created a small autonomous team in Florida that used open standards and built the IBM PC. Launched in 1981. I think Microsoft should say we need a consumer phone product. Get people out of the main corporate mindset. Set up a guerilla team that thinks up what a Microsoft consumer phone should be. Let them use Windows 10 Mobile, design the hardware from off the shelf chinese built phones, think of promoting it and keeping the cost down so each phone sells at a profit. Work to build an ecosystem that really helps sell the product.  It might be a sideshow to the blockbuster killer surface ultra mobile PC but it would be a way of having a define strategy for those who prefer a Windowsphone and potentially a slow recovery from zero sales.
  • I thought the title is an official announcement.
  • Agreed, what a misleading headline!
  • Jason is the King of Clickbait on Windows Central.
  • Anytime you think some official word has come down from Microsoft, just remember that Microsoft does not negotiate with te-- I mean, Microsoft does not communicate with mere consumers.
  • It must be 64 bit or it would be an epic failure. I need to be able to run emulators to run Android so I can still play whatever app is missing from the Windows Store and I'll need more RAM to do that.
  • You realize emulator is not needed as Windows 10 has complete Linux subsystem? Barely any RAM is needed to run Ubuntu, Fedora and CentOS - Android is exactly the same and we had that feature available on phones for couple months during 8.1 era.
  • Emulation can happen in many levels. To say an emulator is needed to run an android app is not wrong IMHO.
  • Dont know what to say. We are just beta testers?? Im getting out of the program en leave my 950xl for a nokia 8 or MS need to set the port open and send out android 7.1 roms
  • Robert,  either you are joking...or completely clueless...Of course insiders were beta testers.  As soon as they announced the suckers....i mean insiders program....90 percent of the development team were fired.  
  • @Steve Adams QA staff though, not developers. The insiders were meant as a crowdsourced QA staff for Microsoft, all while making you feel special for being a part of it all. Little did you know you were actually helping to perpetuate Microsoft's dismissal of the consumer market by supporting the firing of their QA staff, which reduced their operating expenses, which increased their EPS, which increased their stock value, which supports their business decisions to investors.
  • ...which delivered a complete mediocre quality! You can never replace a dedicated pro QA team with average Joes unless you do not care about the quality you will deliver, which btw, it happened thanks to Nutella.
  • I will not leave until the Lumia 650 gives out or breaks
  • me too raylz
  • Me three!
  • I left about a month ago when I bought and iPhone 6S+ with 128 GB storage.  Maybe I'll come back when the ultramobile PC idea is finally cheap enough for the consumer market.
  • Feels like reading another story about Russia.
  • Aka fake news! :)
  • It's not fake news!!! An unnamed source has confirmed that someone close to the Trump campaign once held the door for a person at Trump Tower that not only had a Russian name, but also spoke with a Russian accent. At Trump Tower for f sake! If that doesn't call for an impeachment, I don't know what people are waiting for!!!
  • It's not holding the door. It's the constant lying about holding the door that's the issue my dear.
    I hope they get these little cheats to testify under oath. Then the constant lying will actually cost them, to remind YOU how bad lying is. Obviously you weren't taught about lying when you were kids, otherwise you wouldn't have made fun of THIS level of blatant lies to the point it's a disease. Did I poop in this delusion-fest party?
  • Word on the street is the Trumps watched Night Watch and Day Watch on Netflix and gave them both the thumbs up, which of course means collusion!!!11one TDS, Trump Derangement Syndrome is ripe within the CNN, Huffpost and Young Turks tribes.
  • We are all sure the Republican controlled Congress that is supporting the Republican controlled administration also undersands how stupid these allegations are...that's why they won't have a Special Counsel to inves...oops. Here is the smell test: imagine if Obama had a single Russian tie, and imagine what FOX "News" would have done with it.
    They once went after Obama for ordering a his burger with "spicy Dijon mustard". I am sure the mustard was a bigger threat to the US than Russia hacking one party, setting up meetings with the Trump campaign to make sure he wins (which the campaign denied repeatedly and now we know they blatantly lied) and Trump having many business dealings in Russia because he couldn't get loans in the US, because he's a deadbeat :) But yeah, all that is just "the Fake News media" being picky. But my bad. I forgot we are living in the world of alternative facts nowadays!
  • Obama's legacy was swaying elections in other countries.
  • Obama's legacy was the first attempt at giving Americans healthcare. He also brought down unemployment to under 5% (which continues to this day) and got the US economy back together. But that's not really important. I just want to know what happens in the brains of the supporters of a guy whose words are 70% at least mostly false and more than 50% just false or worse.
    http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ Compare that with Obama whose words were 50% at least mostly true, and 27% just not accurate. That gives you 77% reliable stuff in comparison!
    http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/ It just boggles my mind how people can be...not just stupid, but if they have access to this information and still support a pathological liar afraid of releasing his tax returns, plain immoral. Man. They called out Obama for being "soft on Russia" and now Trump wants to give Russians back the compounds Obama seized...and nothing. The level of hypocrisy smh. I can't even
  • It all boils down to two simple things: People putting pride and political affiliation on a higher level than honesty and integrity. 'Idiocracy' was a foretelling, not a fictional movie.
  • Agreed. I'd point out that it's merely the appearance of pride in the form of delusion. The rest of the world, especially the modern, developed world is laughing at the stupidity of the American people and that's just sad. Because some of the most brilliant minds live there and now this orange clown is representing all of them. I'm myself Iranian and living in Iran, but since we've had a populist demagogue that was fortunately shot down before making things even worse, I know how this clown operates and what lies ahead of America and that really bothers me. I never thought such a manbaby could emerge as a president anywhere but the 3rd world. Now I know stupidity is everywhere and just looking for a chance to re-appear.
  • So now tell us real benefit for end customer. What benefit from this ARM based mobile phone will user get this year?
  • Been asking this myself since this became the new hope of Microsoft fanboys, I'm betting you won't get a lot of meaningful answers to your question.
  • Hi Pavel. Perhaps you missed something. I don't mention an ARM-based mobile phone (which all smartphones are) coming out this year. I do mention cellular PCs coming out this year which are possible precursers to full Windows on ARM ultramobile PCs with telephony. The benefits of that device is that is has the potential via Continuum to be a PC, tablet, and with telephony as just another "app" function among many on this handheld PC also function as a phone. As I state in other articles and as we all know Microsoft still has the app situation to deal with. What I'm presenting here is what I believe to be thier strategy. Now I did present a potential strategy (among many im sure MS and fans have entertained) in a link above after the story of how I believe this new device can be positioned and markets for possible success. It's the story call "How Microsoft's Surface phone can succeed"if interested. It deals with design, positioning, marketing and developers. So its not talking about just the device, but a detailed strategy that surrounds' it.
  • Yeahh as i expected, no real benefit. And thats the problem. The problem started with "benefits" coming with Windows 10 Mobile, continuum, etc. No real benefit. Just marketing. We are couple of years after W10M on the market and real benefit is nowhere. Thats the real point. The Windows 10 mobile does not mean smartphone or the phone itself, thats only marketing.
  • There's almost no apps for Continuum, that's why there is no benefit.  With Windows on ARM and its x32/x64 emulation almost all existing Windows apps will run on it, then that will be brilliant...
  • Yeahh so will i run SAP in company vpn with excel and printing this year on the phone? Yes or no?
  • exactly, ppl expect these devices to replace the powerfuls PCs that many of us use, these devices most likely will be niche, to be used by professionals on field of senior executives who just need to check emails and give approvals on the fly.
  • Hi Pavel, I goes benefit os a matter of perception. As I deatiled in the last article and the one I references preciously this is a long play. It is not about a single device but the creation of a category of ultramobile PCs where OEM partners are critical to it's execution. If overtime OEM partners bring these devices to market, likely beginning is aelect markets or industries positioned and marketed as PCs and eventualy begin offeringing them to a wider base, the masses of PC users these telephony enabled devices could begin to slowly overlap the smartphone space. As I stated previously I have no expectation the Android and iPhone are going to immediately come running to this device. Anyway since this type of device that can be a desktop, tablet and phone,have a pen focus via Windows ink, mixed reality via the mixed reality APIs that a re part of Windows 10, it may be useful as an Al in one device category to many people.
  • My freind, try to find MS articles few years ago before W10M came on the market. You will hear same marketing talks about how new mobile devices are coming. All years we are just listening marketing talks. And you people go and buy iphone. Because real products are just not offered by Microsoft or OEM. Thats reality. No benefit for people.
  • Didn't MS just say that WOA was not a windows phone thing, it was for taplets and laptops? Also they said no updates to whatever is next for current phones. The title for your piece is somewhat misleading to me. Does not seam that current mobile users are beta when we are getting no new features? If the current users were getting cshell that would make sence. Sorry, this is all very confusing.
  • Hey Jason, I'm asking again and will continue to ask, "WHAT IS THE BUSINESS CASE FOR ENTERPRISE TO JUMP ON THIS BANDWAGON?"  I has repeatedly asked this question. I get the one device thing but does the ENTERPRISE want to deal with the data plans if they move from a BYOD environment?  Will employees like having to deal with their phone and this MYTICIAL UNICORN DEVICE and all of the peripherals that make this UNICORN device usable?
  • It is goin to be a ARM based PC and not a phone, if you are looking to replace your existin phone, this is not the device, this is a device that field professionals will use for their computing tasks.
  • And how many mobile devices then you will have in the pocket?
  • A many as you want, I suppose, but you wouldn't need more than a Surface Phone... That is of course unless you're worried you won't be able to take Snapchat selfies with your board meeting peers.. SMDH.
    .......
    You're wondering the benifits of a PC? Umm, they're everywhere. That's pretty much how the WORLD gets things done since like 1975... What are you asking lol? "Jason, how in the world is a Surface PC that can make Phone calls, send text messages, and is the first full damn blown PC that can fit in your pocket, gonna appeal to enterprise?"""
    You sound like some pessimist back in the 60's dismissing the concept of the WWW... You must've just awaken from a coma.... Times change
    Much love though😍😍😍
  • Any body having experience of real enterprise applications would know surface mobile will not be a replacement to PCs.
  • My friend, these thing dwe hear from MS for over 4 years. So i am asking again, when i will be able to run my company apps like SAP, office, printing, access to our BI on whatever mobile device in my pocket from microsoft? Being able to phone of course as well. Tel me delivery date. I dont care how it will be named, i wanna hear delivery date of such device.
  • This is not going to be a device that ppl would buy / carry voluntarily, most likely be dumped into employees hands by enterprises who want to run custom applications on a mobile device.
  • Pavel your stream of comments remind me of a time when all these online techsperts were spouting "why do i need a tablet that replaces my laptop? They're two different devices. MS will fail hard!!' Fast forward to now and every laptop maker on the planet has launched a Surface clone running Windows OS.
  • No Tablet is replacing laptop, tablets market is shrinking. Surface pro's are 'laptops'
  • Surface pros are a new catagory called "lap"lets....Not big enough to be a laptop...not small and light enough to be a tablet.  
  • Yet i am still waiting to see at least one in the wild.. (Europe, business user, casuall public transport user)
  • You have never seen a surface product?  WOW.   My 2 surface 3s were cool but exactly what we wanted.  So I moved to dell 2 in 1s.   MUCH better.  I gave up some portabiltiy for power and storage.  plus the surface was horrible as a true tablet because lack of/useless apps.
  • " Microsoft may no longer need the Windows phone fans " joke on you i left them before they leave me 😏
  • Me too.  I left as soon as they left my 1020 out of the windows 10 upgrade path for no good reason.  been super happy ever since with my iphone.  Apps that work,  OS that works,  miss the 1020 hardware and camera.....nothing else however.
  • and you get OS updates for more than 2 years with new features :)
  • That would fall under the IOS OS just works...and updates,  etc....
  • Then f** them.. If they pulled the plug they will lose not we.. We are users.. We can move to Android or IOS .. But they're a company.. And companies lose not users cuz basically they live from our pockets..
  • That's a huge overstatement. Microsoft is losing money on us right now and could care less if we moved platforms. Microsoft lives on their PC, Cloud, and Office products. You do absolutely nothing to help them along.
  • How is Microsoft "losing money on us"? Is it the hardware they have been making all along, or the brilliant support they've been giving us for the last 2 years? I doubt they had a team of more than 7 people working on Windows Phone after the release of 8.1.
  • Microsoft makes more money in one year just from their Patent licensing deals on every sale of an Android phone (It is rumored to be as high as $5/phone) than they EVER made on the entire Windows Phone experiment.
    They have absolutely no incentive to keep people from buying Android phones, in fact the opposite is true!
  • I said "losing" not "lost". How is Microsoft losing money on us right now?
  • It's 0.1%...LOL. They're not going to suffer from cutting off 0.1%. Hell, they already did it to the remaining 75% of Windows Phone 8.1 users two weeks ago! W10m is just 20%...of 0.1%, and how many of that 20% can even get Creators? I'm looking forward to WoA.
  • Yeah, sure... /s
  • define soon.
  • Hi Jason, why do you think woa devices will come out this fall? Do you have a link of a source for that?
  • Windows on ARM cellusr PCs were announced last year and we got more info in May about OEMs like HP and Asus. Here you go: https://www.windowscentral.com/hp-lenovo-asus-snapdragon-835-windows10-pcs
  • Thanks Jason!
  • Lots of things get announced. Occasionally they actually get released.
  • I believe the Qualcomm chip that enables all of this is being released this fall. I'm sure aome devices will be announced as having their new chips arou d that time. My guess is the HP Elite X3 sucessor could be one of them. I'm going to hold off until I see how things pan out and someone else helps them work out the kinks.
  • There are already Android phones shipping with the Snapdragon 835, in fact parts have been in short supply because of cellular demand. PC makers, because of their smaller market, may struggle to get the parts they need.
  • If you look at the automotive industry in the US (and elsewhere); the past 100 years have played out just like the mobile industry.
    The big three, the ups and downs, the failures, and success, the models that have withstood the test of time, the politics, the technology, the huge shifts in form factors, and model segments..... Times change. Right now small crossover SUV's are outselling cars for the first time in history..... Times change. The once hugely popular minivan is being replaced by SUV's, electric cars are a reality, self driving vehicles are on the horizon...
    When I was in high school, back in the 90's, Hyundai/Kia was a joke. Now, this year at the Dallas international auto show everyone stood in amazement around the platform of the upcoming "Kia Stinger" Woah😮...
    If you think that times won't change, and everything will remain the same, then you probably just haven't lived long enough to witness it happen right before your eyes.
    Tesla... As we dreamed about electric cars in the 80', and 90's, Tesla wasn't even a thought, wasn't even around. Apple, Google, MS? They're not guaranteed to be our mobile future either.... Times change.
    So, when you look at your iPhone, and S8 with so much pride, and look down on MS's "Windows on Mobile" efforts, just think,, will things always be the same?
    Based on history, I seriously doubt it. Humble yourself, people, and open your minds, because times are gonna change.
  • The car analogy is interesting, because the car market has not played out the way you describe in Europe for example. The car manufacturers have no problem recognising this and providing the products that each market wants. MS, with their phones, could not fathom this and so destroyed perfectly good markets because they couldn't see beyond the US border. Has that changed yet? Because failure beckons yet again if it has not.
  • Interesting accretion, and I agree about the fact that it's odd that MS would ignore success in those regions. Nevertheless, I'm sure, as part of retrenchment, that, along with the small user base, was considered...
    .....
    Also, yes my angle was intentionally referring to the US auto market. But, it's really arbitrary, just an example to justify the point that times will change, and we're coming upon that bend. But, with consumers, old habits die hard.........
    Andy, you're a smart man, and you're correct in saying that MS's ideology needs adjustment. I completely agree with you. Thanks for the perspective.
  • The thing that must be hard for US WinPhone victims to imagine is what it was like for example in the UK in the good times. Windows adverts were all over the telly. Shops were full of tempting contracts and front of store Windows phones filled the shelves. Supermarkets too. My works picked up WinPhones (I work for a national organisation of significant stature) as were many others. ICT departments were enthusiastic, as were customers. I left the store with mine, with the sales rep telling me enthusiastically how much better this would be than my old Android. This was after I'd paid. Even the cynical salesmen believed. Heck, I was even accosted by a group of local yoof on the bus with (somewhat astonished) gasps of approval and proclamations of my groovyness because I had the same cool Windows phone as they had. For real doh, innit? The number of times people asked about my phone or made comment about the fantastic Nokia cameras they'd all heard about. Shortly before buying one... Then Nadella retrenched. It just seemed so weird, suddenly everything was unravelled at the height of Windows Phone cool and replaced with nonsense guff from MS. Even my works have dropped Windows phone for the next roll out in August. They sent a note round to staff saying they had to do it because MS have left the mobile market. No-one was pleased. Except Apple.
  • Beta Testers.....???? Wow.....So thats what your calling us for Microsofts failure at an mobile os huh. Talk about new hights microapolgist.
  • Not an apologist at all. It's more an indictment against Microsoft.
  • I actually had several sections in the piece that were edited out, outlining Microsoft's failure in mobile and the failure of Windows 10 Mobile which turned what was "intended as a successful OS" into the mere "testing platform" it has become.
  • Please expalin edited out. You seem to be writing analysis/editorial posts. Is WC editing your opuion/editorial content? 
  • Can u argue differently? U must admit there's so much promised to be added to our OS and look nothing, it's feature locked and what have they really added in terms of features....0. They talked about changing the action centre on w10m to add sliders and better quick actions. Talked about removing the wink from Windows hello to speed it up, yet it's still there. So J.Ward is right we have been testers forever. Yet what can we say has been added to improve this OS other than bug fixes and security fixes. Couldn't even improve the look of our bland phone dialer, contact list, app list, even add the ability to change the font on our devices. Talking about a company that created word, ink and everything office related. Simple things could have been improved to at least make the UI more enjoyable, without adding features some hardly use, what was there could have been tweaked to make the experience that much better for the time being for those who stayed until they moved on or not.
  • Did you think you were anything but a beta tester dirtrot?
  • What features? W10M hasn't gotten any new features since the anniversary update. And those were mild adjustments. W10M is a failed platform. Despite carrying the "feature 2" name there is absolutely no features to speak of, you can't even call W10M a testing ground when there is nothing to test. I take that back, it has tested the patients of all the loyal fans, otherwise there is no testing that W10M is being used for.
  • Microsoft: It's not you, it's me... no no, it's you
  • I hate to throw a "downer" in the mix.  But, thus far - isn't UWP and Project Centennial a failure?  So, there is absolutely nothing to promissing here!  Microsoft needs to get off it's "Cloud" (Pun Intended) and push hard on these efforts.  Without it even Winodws 10 is in jeopardy!
  • Tell me a success (outside of cloud) under Nadella? Surface was already on v3/v4, so that's not it. Windows 10 at a billion users? UWP apps? Phones? Wearables? HoloLens? Xbox One? IOT? Even the Surface Studio didn't show up on the results call as a success. He successfully laid off a bunch of people, he bought a new mansion successfully, he wrote a book on innovation without evidence of actually doing it, and he took over as CEO right when enterprises were finally ready to invest heavily in cloud.
  • Oh,  the book labeled "coming soon™"  is no where to be found.  maybe in the bargain bin at barnes and noble.  
  • Don't forget the foot in mouth statement regarding women's pay.
  • Must be a great workplace to be a woman in....I must say!   get back to work woman before nutella beats you!  Time for that joke of a CEO to be canned.
  • @infosage Keep in mind that when the board hired Nadella they had the choice of Elop and many others. Nadella was the head of the cloud/Azure division, and Elop was the phone/Nokia guy. The board hired Nadella and shortly thereafter sent Elop on his way. Don't blame Nadella for doing what Gates and the others on the board hired him to do. Their move signalled that they wanted cloud over phone, and he's made it so successful that it's threatening Amazon's dominance. Gates and Balmer didn't agree on phones, and it ultimately led to his stepping down and the board hiring the guy who didn't have any background or interest in phones. So my take on it is:  don't blame Nadella, blame the MS board.
  • How is microsoft threatening amazon
  • @ Steve Adams
    https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/10/21/microsoft-corporation-... ^ is from 2015, but a Bloomberg article from 5 days ago says, "In the Credit Suisse survey of customers, Microsoft’s Azure saw the greatest boost among cloud vendors, with 40 percent of respondents saying Azure was their preferred product, up from 21 percent six months earlier." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-20/microsoft-sales-profi... Amazon started off with a huge lead, but MS is closing in on them.
  • Its more like they're keeping this going only for the sake of giving some(if very little hope) for windows 10 mobile. Personally i am not very hopeful about this.
  • [TEAR FILLED EYES],[QUIVERING LIPS].
  • Well sadly there is no point in that now....
  • WM and WoA ar so unrelated!
  • If we are the 'testers' what guarantee does MS give that all the bugs/issues experienced on a 32bit OS they've struggled to get even the basic functions working will not occur on the 64bit version. Right now MS couldn't implement better features for own apps that without new features for W10M OS we the testers would've been satisfied. Will the market accept anything remotely resembling a smartphone from MS running Windows on ARM that isn't running flawlessly out the box? The time of beta testing for MS is at it's end.
  • I enjoy W10M for what it is, not for what it could be.
  • Exactly. You have a point there.
  • Thanks Jason! I look forward to this!
  • More of the same.....
  • Then what use is any of the future crap if it's not actually useful as a PHONE? I don't want to carry a POS iPhone or Android.  I don't want to carry a stupidly large device that just happens to have cell connectivity on it and pretend like I can actually use it as a phone.  It sounds like I really will have no alternative other than to buy a cheap flip PHONE w/tethering capability and use my SP3 for computer work, leaving texting, email & telephony to the feature phone.
  • I have an N80 laying around somewhere. You could rock Symbian like its 2005 if you like.
  • I'm sorry, but I refuse to consider bug fixes as legitimate builds.  Releasing these 'builds' is the only way they CAN patch the OS, as opposed to regular Win10, which can receive simple patches.
  • Many loyal wp fan alredy left and Just few stay. I wonder how many people left will return for Windows 10 arm. In my case, I will not return without Terry merson's leaving. He alredy dumped wp fan twice and was in charge of wp when wp died but he was promoted.
  • I MAY return if......and that is one MASSIVE if,   All the apps I use come to windows in offical form.  NO **** 3rd party 3rd rate garbage....and...the OS is at least 3 years stable.   unlike what they did in the past.   UNTIL THEN.....NOPE....NEVER.....DONE!   The windows mobile phone ship has sailed in our house.
  • "Microsoft has used us!", I want to scream as I finished my reading of Jason's article. Our emotions, passion, pain, relationships and reputation have been linked with the success and failures of our favourite Mobile platform. Hearing that hard truth that we are test subjects for the future plans of the company isn't easy to swallow, but swallow we must, I guess. I don't think I can ever give myself to evangelizing a mobile platform anymore (especially Microsoft). I'll just keep my strong feelings to other more important life matters.
  • It's just a phone.
  • Capitan Obvious to the rescue.   I saw the writing on the wall when 10 mobile started dropping features,  leaving out promises made by Nutella and team.....I bailed...and glad I did.   It has been a shitshow since.   
  • microsoft going around in circles. since my first ipaq, i think this has been the fourth cycle in windows on movile effort. the only time i believe is was a legit paradigm shift was on windows phone 7 series.this is the only time i genuinely belive that the os (which was evolved from the zune ui) to be a true mobile os that does not pretend to be anything more (the secret sauce to the success of android and ios) cellular pc and umpc is not a new thing. remember origami? whar makes them think that dipping their toes into that market is going to be different this time? gonna use my lumia 950  until whatsapp stops its services. then will consider using one of those flip feature phones. microsoft forgets that the actual segment of the market that they need to keep are people who uses phones primarily as phones. these are the people who actually spends money on computing devices every 6 to 12 months. people who actully buys surface pros and upgrades their gtx to the newest ones everytime something comes out. microsofts biggest mistake this thime is focussing on poor poeple who expects to use their lumia 620 for more than 18 months. these are the people who expects updates to their os 4 years after purchase. these are the people that does not contribute to the annual pc/laptop/pc parts sales. just look at all the "disgruntled" people in this community. majority of them are on cheap phones, expecting desktop class function and performance in their pockets. what a bunch of losers. i need my phone to first and foremost be a phone. microsoft lost it the moment they tried to make the windows phone os into something else. make expensive phones with a clear goal, put this phone into a defined market segment, not some device that overlaps a few segments. stop trying to be a jack of all trades, because you know, jack is a master of none.    
  • You know the definition of insane right?  well....MS is insane....doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
  • Hey Jason isn't it time you focus your time on what's coming next for any potential users of Windows on ARM, instead of talking about what every Windows mobile user has known for sometime and that MS doesn't care for what's currently being used by its dwindling followers. The reason why there are still people using this mobile OS is because we accept what it is for us just like those on IOS and Android. Don't think anyone is still asking MS why this or that. Think we accepted what it is a while ago, we're waiting to see what MS releases for Mobile when they release the RS3 for PC later this year and after that we'll make your definite decision then to stay or leave.
  • Compared to windows 10 mobile and its devices,  iphone is far from a POS there scuba.   There is only one **** in the mobile phone punchbowl...and it starts with MICROSOFT.
  • kenzibit: I thought the title is an official announcement. Ha. Ok, that's fair. Title was bit on the clickbait side. (on a side note, anyone else having an issue with the "reply" button? This site is continually plagued with issues).
  • I would reply to you, but the button is not working :D Anyways, I wish WC would stop redesigning their web page. Every time they do it, it ruins it completely then we have to wait for them to fix it. And the old version never worked fully anyways.
  • They are just following microsoft's lead,  redesign until it breaks....Then Can it!
  • App sucks, crashes all the time and I have to wait two minutes after opening the app before I can start scrolling.
  • It seems like a huge waste of time and resources to continue developing two separate versions of Windows 10 for ARM devices. I don't understand what Microsoft's plans are for ARM-devices. There also doesn't seem to be adequate urgency with respect to the accessory/companion ecosystem for Windows. A large number of bluetooth and Wi-Fi products now exist on the market that do not work with Windows 10. Retail stores and device manufacturers have largely blocked out or ignored Windows with some exceptions (Fitbit, Ring, Garmin). How did Amazon achieve such fast Alexa device integration out of nowhere, yet Microsoft can't get companies to support Windows 10 with their devices? Alexa doesn't even work well.
  • we are ahead of the enterprise based updates for windows 10 mobile. first they did the cleaning with feature2 bug fixing period. just wait a bit and see...
  • Don't worry, MS executives aren't smart enough for misusing us, they're just blundering from one mobile adventure to the next without a clue. Like I already said, Windowsphone or ARM device, for both you need apps that'll work on a small touchscreen, preferably UWAs. But as we all know MS is doing practically nothing to really entice developers to get involved here. And that's why this new ARM based whatever will be DOA.
  • Kinda feels like the BlackBerry PlayBook. Publicly talked about as a product in its own right, but always missing some key parts and its real value was as a stepping stone to BlackBerry 10 phones. The PlayBook was probably ultimately a mistake and I don't think W10M is quite as unpolished as the PlayBook OS was (no email at launch... on a BlackBerry), but the comparison is still there. My two hopes then, are: 1. That Microsoft learned enough from this "beta test" for whatever is next to be a big step forward. I do think BlackBerry accomplished this. 2. That consumers don't continue to associate Windows on Mobile with the "beta test" product and that kills their ability to get any market share. BlackBerry failed miserably here. And maybe this is where Microsoft just ignoring it is actually a better thing, since by the time the new thing comes out most people would not have thought about Windows on mobile for a while, vs BlackBerry who continued to try to sell the "beta test" which maybe got some sales but also kept the negative images in mind.
  • Just reward us with some affordable devices when they are released. Don't lock us out by selling only $1,000 enterprise devices. Let OEM's sell consumer oriented devices. 
  • Nothing to say actually
  • In other words, they going full enterprise and see the consumer market as a dead end.
  • And the consumer market will see them as dead. 
  • I started with WP7 and have been a faithful fan of WP til now (Lumia 950).  It's getting painful, though.  The continued attrition of apps I've come to rely on and no new ones is taking its toll.  And yet, I'm still here hoping for a better future. It would all be OK if Microsoft would create a program whereby people who could demonstrate they'd been long-suffering and faithful to the platform could buy the next thing (whatever it is) at cost.  In exchange for my loyalty and advocacy to the platform, I could get a Surface Phone at a 40% discount (or whatever MS's cost is).  I'd be good with that.
  • Same with me, I can't even count numerous microsoft windows phone I have purchased since the first HTC phone and it got lost... but it was the best one! Now I am with Lumia 950 which is on it's last legs barely one year later...
  • Someone needs to put Jason back in the box, because these stories are starting to get annoying.
  • Starting to?
  • regardless of the form factor, UWP is the soul of windows' new direction, it's just sad to see how most developers didn't put serious effort on it even after (almost) 2 years of win10. guess we have to see how cellular PC can improve the situasion before projecting the next evolution
  • Thanks for your article. Given the topic of your previous article stating that Microsoft won't need Windows mobile fans to succeed with an alleged Ultra Mobile PC with Telephony in the marketplace, so I am curious why you keep writing these teaser articles to Windows fans who read Windows Central, about such an upcoming Device? Nothing negative is either meant or should be inferred from the question, please! Again thanks for your articles.
  • Dude gotta make a living somehow.
  • We need Apps and Applications. Will Windows 10 on ARM give us that? MS has been plugging away at Mobile for the last 20 years and they have gotten nowhere.
  • You know, if IBM's OS2 had only taken off way back when instead of Windows, we wouldn't be having this discussion :)
  • Ha!!! Really liked this comment :) IBM instead of Microsoft, that would have been an interesting world. OS2 really was ahead of its time and much better than DOS/Windows 3.x. Everything was sandboxed, it was really cool (and still alive lol)
  • I really doubt that this ultramobile PC as you call it is gonna be the next big thing for MS. If this is really the plan then I'd say it's gonna fail miserably as such a device would need to have top of the line hardware thus won't be cheap (I'd guess around $1000) but being an ARM powered with x86 emulation it won't be capable of doing any real PC work (and will need some additional hardware to act as one like monitor, mouse and keyboard and probably some kind of docking station so additional $300-500). And it would fail as a smartphone rival because there are no apps for it to act like one and there is no developer support (and even any incentive for that kind of support). So basically you're going to spend around $1,5k for a device that can't replace neither your smartphone nor your PC. So this doesn't seem like a good plan.
  • .
  • Plenty of people pay near $1,000 for an iPhone so why not for a ultra mobile PC running on ARM with the ability to run x86 applications. We are talking a PC here not a phone. That is not to say that a ultra mobile PC could not act as a phone. This would have been great 2 years ago but enterprises have moved to 64-bit applications that will not run on ARM unless they are compiled for ARM64.
  • Because there is a difference between the ability to run x86 application and doing some real work in it. Yes there was a demo in which Adobe Photoshop was launched on HP Elite X3 but you just won't be able to do some real photo editing in it on S835 processor with 3 GB RAM. So all it is gonna be good for is browsing web checking emails and some light office stuff so no real value here as a PC. And those people who spend $1000 on iPhones get what they've paid for - a great smartphone with tons of apps and support from developers unlike those buying Elite x3 for example.
  • Finally someone understands, Some fans are over enthusiastic about this and think that having PC capabilities would be great and all of sudden we would be running heavy applications on a phone, seems no end to the fantasy imagination, but truth is the cheap 500$ laptops are going to be more poewerful than this 835 processor device and they suck at running bit heavy applications.
  • And besides,   running x86 is useless while being mobile.   they are made for static computing not mobile computing...useless...
  • good word!
  • ????
  • IOW, W10A is the new W10M. I get it, Microsoft needs to get the masses (and carriers *cough* Verizon *cough*) to buy the spin that it's not a phone. Sure, it'll be able to run x86 code locally instead of on some nebulous cloud service, like we used do when we had terminals half the size of a dishwasher connected to mainframes via 300/1200 bps modems (no K-apes!). Maybe they can pull it off, maybe not. I guess time will tell whether the masses will overlook yet one more platform reboot.
  • Wait. Wasn't that the Lumia 900 that ended the smartphone beta test?
  • Is this the 4th phase of grief and loss ;) I wonder why I received notification for this editorial in mobile app (1st ever). For a minute I thought it was officially announced...
  • Microsoft YOU Just Get Lost
  • LUMIA 950 XL Takes Better Photos Than Samsung Galaxy S 8
  • But cannot run a banking app.
    (P.S. A Canon Dslr take better pics....)
  • Yes you are right
  • Too me, it sounds as delta or epsilon testing, when I think about all those Windows phone I have bought supporting Microsoft's alpha and beta testing of their mobile platform. Whatever it is, bshell, kshell or even cshell, I want to see the same what I always write in my comments about: an interface that does not float around, is stable to the touch, immutable and the last but the most important one - it directly says who is who, no hieroglythic icons alone anymore!!! They were the only means in ancient Egypt. Since that time, couple of alphabetic scripts, easy to read, where invented.
  • Folks as of now Windows 10 on ARMS CPU's is designed for Mobile PC Tablets and Laptop Computers. Microsoft is now testing in house a new mobile device.  if all indications are correct this device is probably a dual screen Mini Tablet. I believe a cell phone can be added to a Tablet . there was a 7 inch Windows smart phone ar one of the CES shows so this can be done. I predict The next "Surface" device will be a dual screen Mini Tablet smart phone Hybrid device running Windows 10 on arms and some elements of Windows 10 mobile OS. This device wont appeal to everyone but enough of them will be bought by people on a world wide basis to make them worth selling
  • Till MS abandons it as well.
  • Totally irrelevant... no apps, no content. There are no Amazon apps, no Google apps, no Readly, no nothing. Businesses are currently reverting to Blackberry.
  • exactly....blackberry has it going on again....the priv, KeyOne....both awesome devices.   the x3...NOT SO MUCH.
  • Why do all insiders feel Microsoft owes them... It's a take it or leave situation, always has and always will be. Microsoft is lost as Apple and IBM have been in the past. When they find their iMac they'll be back.
  • Problem is,  there is no Imac to be found.   There is NOTHING new in computing...Nothing that will be the wow anymore.  The only thing I saw recently that was very cool and "WANT" certified was a video that corning made for gorilla glass.   Go find it....it was a full house with glass over every surface that became screens.  It was awesome to say the least....this would be the only amazing new thing I have seen.  foldable...NOPE...that is a failure just waiting to happen.  worn, broken screens from folding alot...thickness of devices....etc...nah.
  • If there is any truth to this speculation, then Microsoft is hopelessly screwed.  I've been on the fast ring since fast ring existed.  And I have to say that for the last 6 months or so, Windows 10 Mobile fast ring has been a wreck.  Apps that intermittently do not launch, occasional OS crashes, photo sharing that does not share, and with the most recent two updates, Skype for Business cannot even launch.  If this is actually someone's idea of feedback being beneficial to the development process (I have reported all of these issues, multiple times) then it is time to run for the hills. Dona may be the pretty face for the public presence, but who the heck is responsible for quality?  Does anyone at MS even use this OS for their daily driver these days?  
  • Really? I have the exact opposite experience... the last 6 months builds have been getting better. My phone (950XL) is very stable
  • Fast ring was always risky, that's why I abandoned it years ago.
  • I went fast ring on my dell to get story remix,  never got it...and it fuckked up my computer so bad I had to do a re install.  NOPE on the insider garbage.
  • Yes, W10M is incomplete OS yet, and it is still being in development stage when I bought my 950 till now, I agree with you.
    Actually, I don't mind of being a tester because as a developer I want to track down what's what is the features are going to be released in future. We have noticed some unified features between Windows across devices PCs, Mobile, Xbox ... etc.
    On the other hand, if Microsoft wants to move on to Windows on ARM, it would be nice from them to pay us back as a thank you by giving for those testers when releasing a new "Surface Phone" for free and for other regular fans for a discount price because we are all together is almost 1% of market share, those who have hope, and deserve being treated well at the end, when everything is a accomplished. 😉
  • I hope so see some laptops like Chromebook with backlit and touch for $200 and under.
  • Plenty of sub-$200 Windows devices are available today. What improvement will WoA really bring? I am sure they will not perform any better since they are using ARM chips and battery life isn't that great on ARM Chromebooks. What will WoA really bring? How long before ARM SoCs are powerful enough to replace even a Core i5 machine?
  • I don't understand why WC keep banging on about cellular PCs. The ability to stick a sim in a laptop has been around for ages, if you need that you buy a laptop that can do it. I can't imagine most people will want another data plan. What ARM chips offer is battery life at the expense of processing power. I very much doubt there will be a surface phone anytime soon as there is no app ecosystem for a phone sized screen and with out W10m there is no incentive to build apps for a phone size device. You can hardly use the Spotify centennial app on a 5.5in screen no matter what version of Windows your running. I've switched to the LG G6 and its brilliant, it reminds me of the Lumia 930. Fast, great to hold in the hand and has a mega camera.
  • I have been considering a LG G6 (LG is the only one I would go for although my phone would have to burst into flames for me to switch) it looks great, great camera, nice design, love the way it feels. I think I have my spouse talked into upgrading from the G4 to the G6
  • There is not really trade-off battery life vs. performance. ARM SoCs are generally much more power efficient. So a scenario where you get better performance and better battery life is also realistic.
  • Hi David, the ability to put a SIM in a PC has been around for a while, but the ability to put full Windows 10 on ARM has not. This allows for lighter, always connected, cooler, more powerful mobile devices. Thanks for jumping in. Good question.😎
  • If they just abandoned us just like a click! It would be a very bad hit on us.
    I was till hoping there is a chance since Windows Mobile 6 in my Jam-in device from i-mate. 😢
  • OK. Can I now have my money back please?
  • Proud to be a "beta tester". Love this OS. Love Surface devices too. Windows saved me from Android and iOS. Because other are not even close with it. Windows Mobile is the best for me. Awesome UI/UX. I love everything. Can't wait for the Surface Mobile or Phone, or Pocket, I don't care about the name.
  • You can even smell a Jason Ward article. Yeah right, a beta test. 2 years later, you will say that to Surface phone too. How do you keep thinking this bright about future. That's a good thing, I guess. PS: Yeah I know I'll get disliked to death.
  • Estolada I'm not sure if you read the article but based on your comment it seems you did not. The article is clearly an indictment against Microsoft for utilizing fans as free beta testers on a platform that has failed. Please reread.
  • Post hoc ergo propter hoc A question Mr. Ward.  Windows 10 also has a Insider Program.  Is it inappropriate that Microsoft offers insider programs and prompts users to give feedback via the "Feedback Hub"?  Microsoft also harvests data from Insiders and in fact from non-insiders as well.  So lets make this clear, is it the fact that fans can participate in a Insider Program the problem?  Or is it in the case of Windows Phone/Mobile the issue that particular platform has gone belly up? It seem like pique to castigate Microsoft for running a Insider Program on a platform that after the fact, went belly up.  There's been a Insider Program on Windows Phone/Mobile for quite a few years now.   At what point is it appropriate to make an "indictment against Microsoft" because they ran a Insider Program on a product that ended up failing? It's after the fact pique....
  • Hi b23h, the other product benefitting from Insiders input are "real" products being pushed through the market, be advertised, marketed and for which Microsoft is actively trying to acquire partners and customers. Windows 10 Mobile, per Myerson is literally simply in "sustain mode" as Microsoft gleans what it can toward the development of ARM and cellular for some future ARM-based device, because it would be difficult to start over. Windows phone users in the Insiders Program (self included😉) the Windows 10 Mobile, which has a pseudo markey presence, are in a much different situation than Insiders for another product which is truly in the market.
  • Mr. Ward, You answered a question I did not ask, and failed to answer the question I did.  I am aware of the distinctions between for example, the current status of Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile.  That was not the question. The question was "at what point is it appropriate to make an "indictment against Microsoft" because they ran an Insider Program on a product that ended up failing?"
  • Windows is not a mobile OS, not even a good tablet OS by a long shot, and has either insufficient app/content supply, and/or insufficient security. Now someone will cry "Cshell"... yeah... whatever.
  • Now what will happen, and what action we have to take
  • This makes sense. It also would not surprise me if the remaining users are pure Microsoft users across all platforms, like me That allows dogfoodding end-to-end with our Microsoft IDs.  Additionally, allowing/forcing everyone off the platform knowing that they won't be needed for the new platform to succeed does limit the transition price to upgrade those few remaining, extremely loyal users who do choose to stick  around and choose to migrate to the new platform. 
  • Would it be asking too much of Microsoft to throw a bone to the w10 buyers that were nieve enough to think that Microsoft would follow through with the w10mobile? They could give some form of incentive to us if they are dumping the platform they once again promised to keep. I'm on a fence now ready to go with iphone. Tired of broken promises and half hearted attempts at providing a cohesive connections between devices. Arm-based ultramobile pcs......another promise to be broken? If they want to have a market share that is worthwhile, then maybe they might consider thanking those still using windows phones by offering some type of trade in. That would eliminate some if not all existing windows phones and eliminate the bad publicity that comes with dumping another os. Hard feelings are difficult to overcome, the arm-based devices may be the best thing since sliced bread, so to say, but if the attitude is that no one trusts them to complete the task and do what they say they are going to do, who is gonna buy into it. I catch a lot of guff for getting/keeping my 950xl, and the three other windows phones I have had in the past, started with w7. Not sure I want to gamble on it again. Would like some serious feed back from Microsoft that would indicate that they are seriously making a device that will both be a pc and have the ability to make phone calls. Definitely not too interested in purchasing ANOTHER data plan just for the sole use of a mobile device IRREGARDLESS of how its labeled. I am self employed, my phone is not a toy, and yes I would like it to be a portable pc, but their also needs to be some assurance that they are serious on their end before I buy into it. This has gone well beyond 'once bitten twice shy'.
  • Been saying this since the release of the 950's ...while I loved the phones ..it was obvious they were made for an OS that needed advanced devoted beta testers such as the Windows Phone community. The 950's were released when Windows 10 Mobile itself was still in Dev preview and that should have been the obvious sign to everyone. The fact they didnt market/promote the devices made it even more obvious. They needed us to test continuum more so than anything. That's not to say it's a bad thing...because MS had been publicly testing W10m as opposed to killing it then bringing it back out of the blue ...all the testing and developments is what I believe brought us Windows 10 S, which i personally believe will essentially be the platform used for their Ultra Mobile Surface device. MS clearly was seeing results from developer preview program ..that being honest with their users that we are beta testers was going to drive many away much sooner. Whereas now, MS has a new plan in place and the casualties are much leas than had they made it clear to us that we were mere beta testers since the day Win10 mobile was released.
  • Seeing how Microsoft was f*****g us over the previous years with the constant reboots and "leaving behind" for each new windows phone version. I would just say that they are changing the position. We keep asking for more, so why bother to stop ?
  •  Dona's red love lips there again. Customers, customers come.come come.
  • she is a donkey
  • A beta test on a mobile platform for a desktop platform? With Belfiore claiming that WoA will not be coming to phones, does Microsoft just quit phones? You seem to have ignored this statement in your last two editorials.
  • They've always ignored this
  • Wow. I've sometimes wondered if you actually read the whole PC. I think you're smart but seem quick to "speak sometimes" Please, please revisit each post bleached because in ** both** pieces I address what Job B said. In the piece before this one I actually copied and pasted a portion of his statement, supplied a link and then addressed it. Because I had down that in that piece I linked and addressed it less comprehensively in this piece. But definitely didn't ignore it, you and techiez it seems just missed it. Like the old Prego commercials, "It's in there!"
  • I personally think that MICROSOFT should DITCH QUALCOMM and partner up with NVIDIA and include an DESKTOP BASED GPU like the TEGRA X2 and also become the 1st company to include 16 to 32 gigabytes of fast RAM for AAA GAMING ON THE GO  
  • What will the input method be?
  • Dona's rear end, no lube.
  • Microsoft Lumia 950 XL Needs Firmware Update
  • Your last couple of titles are a tad bit too clickbaitey in my opinion. It seems as even WindowsCentral has jumped on the bash-MS train. In a bad way. I don't want to be flattered with too good to be true hopeful messages, but the tone in the last weeks destroys the very community on which this site has been built. Also, there is significant overlap between the articles, reducing the value.
  • Hi Tiemen I'm definitely not Microsoft bashing. But I am giving what I feel is an honest assessment of what I believe their strategy is. Now I concede the titles convey a strong tone, but though the content is consistent with the theme of the title, it professionally articulated and the arguments are supported. I think we all must remember Microsoft is a business run by failable human beings and as I have raised criticisms in the past (see my Windows Mobile and the Enterprise series, several pieces on thier marketing challenges, a piece on Quantum computing, a piece on thier AI Driven Surveillance, a piece on 3D paint, an article on thier mixed reality strategy and more). These last two, are also raising some things to think about. The last one was just a candid pragmatic address that as fans we simply may not be considered strategic valuable by Microsoft for what I see as a coming PC oriented approach to mobile with an ultramobile PC. I was candid in that piece noting that Microsoft contributed to (as well as outside factors)the failure of its mobile attempts and to turning fans away that put us and them in this position. This piece I think highlights what most of us already know. Windows 10 Mobile is being sustained fir the benefits it provides fir the development of ARM and cellular for what's next. Microsoft Stores don't sale Windows phones, most carriers have stopped, MS is not actively courting OEMs for Windows 10 Mobile, and from what I hear its more difficult for OEM to get through to MS if that want to. So the platform is simply in sustain mode, and has a strange pseudo market presence as it's not being pushed but it is used by HP, Alcatel and fans.
  • "It's common practice for companies to engage in internal testing (dogfooding) or limited beta testing with a small group of users to glean information and to improve products before release. Rarely, if ever, does beta testing occur for over a year with millions of testers for a product that technically has a "pseudo market presence."
    Windows 10 Mobile has become a mere beta test, and fans are the testers.
    That's essentially what's happening with Windows phone fans using Windows 10 Mobile who are part of Microsoft's Insider's Program." Really?! Did MS say this to anyone? Anyone?! Even you Insiders, were you told this by anyone at MS? Do you feel you are a part of something special or are you being used? Pay hundreds of dollars, for the phone, to be part of a beta program (most beta programs are free, with the tradeoff being you spend time using it and giving feedback...usually...), and then...dumped, with no clue, no word, no goodbye kiss, about what's going on!! That last photo of Dona looks like the smirk of a woman who got all she wanted from a relationship, then just took off with your goods and left you with a selfie that says, Sayonara Sucker! That was the connotation Jason was going for with that photo, right? Boycott Insiders Preview!!
  • I will grow old saying this but hey, I'm used to be right before time by now: there is no Surface Phone and there will be no Surface Phone. You're chasing unicorns.   Even the "ultramobile PCs with telephony" is a fever dream. Not because it's impossible but because there's no demand for it. And Microsoft's days of doing stuff that people don't want ended with Bald Ballmer's resignation. Microsoft knows that the "ultramobile PCs with telephony" on Windows is destined for failure just like all the other mobile attempts they made. Android won. Game over. The future of Windows is the cloud. I know that, Nadella knows that, Microsoft knows that, lots of people know that. Time for WP-fanboys to move on instead of continuing to hope you'll one day find that unicorn. You won't. Specially since everyone knows there's only one unicorn cave in the World and that's in North Korea, as reported by the Glorious Leader news agency.
  • Just wait until they buy HMD this time around from under the nose of Nokia. Just for fun.
  • No real W10M fan will switch to your crapdroid . Stop dreaming troll
  • Go and play with your nokia phone dude
  • we paid to help MS develop WOA.... No more for me. 
  • Remind me this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_elqLDSt36k
  • Lol.yeah I actually had that video embedded in the piece. It didn't make the final cut though. Thought it was a nice touch😉
  • I just hope MS can continue in somewhat with Windows on Mobile because frankly I'll never touch an Apple device and I cringe at having to switch to Android. Even though there is more compatibility with Android and apps than with Windows Phone, I enjoy the interface too much on Windows Phone to leave... 
  • If microsoft persists at these strategy it will fail in next windows version especially like windows 10 architecture , belive me , no true operating system released after windows 7 , really I miss this windows..
  • Microsoft treat us like abusive governments.
  • Insiders - yes - they know they are guinea pigs.   But the rest of us on W10m.  I hope that is not the case.  Otherwise it sounds like they are cheating their customers.  Again, I assuming you are talking about Insiders at the beta testers.  ..."represents Microsoft's strategic exit from smartphones"...  Um...that is a nice way of putting it.  I'd sum it up in one word as 'Fail' Am I onboard for ARM - yup!  I still believe MS has a lot of good tech but lack the insight of Google and marketing savvy of Apple. I am also invested in MS in terms of Office 365 personal - that will work on any OS, but I hope even better on an ARM device.... I'll probably be an WoA guinea pig...  
  • I see you're still taking an optimistic view, even if you're starting to face the reality that Windows Phone is dead. Yes, this is the optimistic view, where Microsoft still has something to offer us WP fans in the form of an ultra mobile PC that fits in your pocket, can act as a telephone but it's a regular PC running full Windows 10. Heck, I'm sure most if not all current WP users and maybe even some of those who left  might come back (although many were only using it because of Nokia).  That's still a tiny market share. Yes, Microsoft will be targeting enterprises that have a lot of software still running on Windows. The problem is that it's taken so long for Microsoft to get there (well, they still didn't) that there's a lot of software out there at enterprises now that's on iOS/Android. Both iOS and Android have layout systems that can easily scale to different screen sizes. The only thing missing compared to Continuum is mouse support. If they feel Microsoft's solution is a threat they can easily add that.  So the question is really, how many enterprises actually have a lot of software stuck on Windows that they don't want to touch and how many users do they have that will benefit from carrying this ultra mobile PC that's almost as small as a phone and can be used as one.  Is it enough for anything to really change? will it take market share from iOS/Android smartphones? tablets maybe? We know for sure it will take market share away from Desktop/Laptop PCs (as that is the device it will directly replace for enterprises). Will there ever be enough users on devices that are touch only most of the time to get popular and high quality 3rd party apps in the Windows Store? I personally don't see it but since I really like my WP better than my Android phone and my previously used iOS devices, I hope it somehow works out for Microsoft... A couple of other notes That was a very short article for you Jason...   -"where users will purchase data from the Windows Store" while they may go this way, it's more likely you would still buy your data from a carrier without having to go through Microsoft and even if you do it will just be for convenience. Microsoft isn't getting into the cellular carrier market...
  •  It depends on the size of the enterprise.  Big companies have a working history with MSFT server but more importantly the resources Azure provides that far exceeds Google or Apple...forget about Andriod and iOS, which are still mobile OS's even if they can be scaled to fit bigger screens.  To satifsfy small franchises and low data consuming applications it would make sense to use one of the top two mobile OS's.   Someone is investing in MSFT's future because their stock is at an all time high and still growing at a greater rate than their technological counterparts.   If I'm an Andriod or iPhone user who use Office 365 as their primary work tool would entertain using a Windows based device that has ARM/Cshell capabilities with a VR component that is integrated with Cortana because they're available on the platforms that they've been comfortable using already.  At the least it would intrique them.
  • Hi eshy, careful now🙂 I've always faced reality. Take a look at my other pieces, particularly Windows phone isn't dead - and it may never die. In that and other pieces like What Android and iPhone users need to know about Windows phone I talk in broad picture terms of the trek of Windows-on-phone(mobile): Pocket PC, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone, Windows 10 Mobile and the anticipated Windows 10 on ARM. I address how each of those iterations of Window phone "died" and was subsumed by it's successor. I predicted in those pieces the same would happen with Windows 10 Mobile as it becomes subsumed by Windows 10 on ARM on an ultramobile PC. Now, what you claim is "facing reality" is simply an article zooming in and focusing on a point in the Windows-on-mobile journey I have made many times: Windows 10 Mobile will die and be replaced by full Windows on ARM. That's just not "where I keep my focus" though I do use Windows phones and have since Window Mobile 5.0. I look at the big picture and focus more on the climate (which is long lasting and incorporates various weather conditions) whereas many people focus on the weather (which is fleeting). My historic references to the Windows-on-mobile journey and the associated predictions are a "climate view." This and the last piece highlighted "current weather" conditions (which are the focus here most of the time) while bringing in some of the bigger picture "climate perspectives" I think are important to think about. 🙂 Hope my analogy helped Lol😃
  • I believe microsoft will do crazy things with windows 10 on arm. If they can truly have a win 10 experience on a cell phone, not a mobile type, and be able to do everything on a pc but on a phone. This will try bring back the masses and truly change what a phone can be. I saw GPD win and truly feel that windows 10 on phones will happen soon. 
  • Nobody knows what are Microsoft detailed future plans for W10 mobile , meaning on PHONES, but i suspect they will never give up because it's strategic to them. We can see that from their timely upgrades . And i also didn't hear anything about the production of their latest model of lumias being stopped . Interesting to hear that they will release TABLETS OR PC with full Windows on ARM and cellular capabilities this year , if it happens ??? But those have not PHONES form factor . IMO we are a long long way from microsoft releasing a surface PHONE 6" or less but i could be wrong . Meanwhile W10M is not dead by any stretch of imagination .
  •  > With just over 20 percent of the less than one percent market share Window phone has 20% of the installed base of WP, vs 1% of sales, you can't multiply that ! > With no real market presence, Windows 10 Mobile has virtually devolved into a mere beta test for Windows 10 on ARM, cellular and other features for future implementation in Windows 10 on ARM Cellular features et ARM support may be new for W10, but not for W10M (or even WP7/8)
    How can you "beta test" the feature of a new OS without having it ?
    If MS could beta test features using W10M, that wouldn't be technical ones, but mostly ui experiments, or inovative features... but they don't  
    Usually your "warditorials" are better...
  • Hi Penther I'm not sure why you're getting at with your reference to the 20% of 1%. But may I can clarify. Windows phone has less that 1% of the entire samrtphone market of billions of phones. Of that tiny sub 1% number different Windows phone OSs are represented such as Windows Phone 8.1 and Windows 10 Mobile. Windows 10 Mobile makes up just over 20% of that number. Now remember that tiny 20% Windows 10 Mobile number is only part of a smartphone segment that is represented by less than 1% total market share. Hope that helps. Now to your statement that beta testing technical feature is not possible. Terry Myerson did an interview with Mary Jo Foley not too long ago, and I pasted an exerpt of it in this piece, sadly it must not have sufficed to help get the point across about how Myerson states that Microsoft is continuing investments in W10M literally because the technical investment in Cellaur and ARM(which contradicts your claim.) here's the fuller conversation: MJF: I realize this year was a year when Microsoft planned not to release any new Windows Phones itself. But the question I keep getting is why is Microsoft wasting time updating Windows Mobile when the market share is one percent? You don't have that many phone OEMs. Why not just say, you know, maybe we'll come back some day, but for now, let's just stop playing around with mobile. MYERSON: Technically, there are really two things that are unique about Windows Mobile. One is cellular connectivity and the other one is the ARM processors that are there. And I think both cellular connectivity and ARM processors have a role in the technical landscape of the future. So we're going to continue to invest in ARM and cellular. And while I'm not saying what type of device, I think we'll see devices there, Windows devices, that use ARM chips. I think we'll see devices that have cellular connectivity. When you stop investing in these things, it's super hard, super, super hard to restart. And at Microsoft we have a few of those examples where we stopped. Sometimes, when you're investing into growth. it's easier, but when you're investing for technical strategy or things like that, sometimes people can question it -- like you're doing right now. But especially among your readers, I don't think there's much debate that ARM processors have a role in the future. And cellular connectivity does as well.
  • Notice: ...there are really two things that are unique about Windows Mobile. One is cellular connectivity and the other one is the ARM processors that are there. And I think both cellular connectivity and ARM processors have a role in the technical landscape of the future. So we're going to continue to invest in ARM and cellular. And while I'm not saying what type of device, I think we'll see devices there, Windows devices, that use ARM chips. I think we'll see devices that have cellular connectivity. When you stop investing in these things, it's super hard, super, super hard to restart. That's why thier still keeping Windows 10 Mobile breathing and keeping fans engaged.
  • Correction. They are keeping W10mobile breathing, but they arent doint ANYTHING to keep the fans engaged.
  • I think those Insiders who reach out to Dona, anxiously await build news and updates might disagree😃. Perhaps there's more they can do, and as all things can be improved I'm sure there is. What would you suggest and maybe you can share it through the feedback channels and see if it makes a difference. Who knows?🤔
  • Hi, and thanks for your answer :)   About the percentage, no, it's not percentages of the same thing. W10M is 20% of installed phones running windows, meaning phones that are still used, even if they were sold 2 years ago. Windows has as 1% market share, that means it's 1% of the newly sold phones. As phones running on WP8.1 are even harder to find than on W10M, Most of this single % is probably W10M..   My point on beta testing is that considering W10M a a beta test of W10ARM because parts of it will be reused is the same as saying that W8 was a W10's beta and W7 was W8's beta, or that Lolipop was Marshmallow's beta. A beta is for testing what's new/changed, while what W10ARM will get from W10M is something that's already complete and in production. In time we'll have a beta to test these features' integration in the "desktop" OS. That's mostly a question of language, but extending "beta" to anything that will still evolve means that the only final products are abandoned ones (yay ! paint is finally released ! :p ). I know you're not talking about a proper beta, but I think that's not appropriate.   While does MS keep updating W10M in that case ? (if you're considering it's still updated, given the past months' changelogs...) That might be to keep the platform safe (security does matter), not to enrage client too much, or because if some tools evolve on pc and not on mobile it might be a pain for them later (imagine if new UWP apps with FDS did not run on mobile...)
  • I glad you acknowledge that I'm talking about a "proper" or officially designated beta program. What I am referring to is something that is "functionally" a beta program. Your analogy to Windows 7 as a Windows 8 beta and Windows 8 to 10 are not congruous to the situation I've carefully outlined in this piece. What you point are are OSes that were marketed, pushed to OEMs and widely/relatively adopted(8 didn't do so well) and simply succeeded each other in the market. None of these OSes was ever the state W10M currently exists in. Not being marketed, not being pushed to OEM partners, virtually no market adoption except by fans. Windows 10 Mobile, per the statements Terry Myerson gave above (which you failed to address) is being sustained for Microsoft's continued development of ARM and cellular connectivity which will layer be implemented on some future ARM device. Since the general public (as was in the case with Windows 7, 8 and 10) are not using W10 mobile, and virtually just a small population of fans who are in the Insider's Program who eagerly anticipate build releases, and follow WM news are the demographic this platform - that is analogous to a beta platform that has no real market presence that is being tested by a small sample of eager participants - beta testers.😉
  • Jason . A lot of IOS and crapdroid trolls on your threads . I hope you realize that ?
  • So why does my 950xl shutdown with no cause; I'm doing something on it or taking a pic and it just shuts down. I have to take the battery out and put it back in to reboot the phone. And then I go to Photos and the pix I just took are gone, they weren't saved.
  • Try replacing the battery.
  • Ok take your own time a decade or so... Wil be good😂
  • Jason, you do really good "ward"itorials, but I can't believe that MS is harder to get rumors and stories out of than the Federal government. All we get, factual information-wise, are references to Nadella's comment last November about making a super-mobile device, and Myerson's quote about connectivity and ARM cpu's. That's 8 months of speculation. It's time you or others at WinCentral start doing some investigative reporting. Does no one at WinCen have contacts in MS that can slip us a bone, or a rumor, or some anonymous info? I like the speculation, and give you thumbs up for what you've extrapolated (I could not do better) - but it's time you all at this site show us your ability to get some insider information. Either MS is tighter than Fort Knox, or your investigative powers of journalism are really weak.
  • For the most part they are but more of the successful Microsoft apps need to be places everyone else is. Groove, movies&tv Cortana to name a few should be available on Amazon fire stick, iPad etc.
  • For the most part they are but more of the successful Microsoft apps need to be places everyone else is. Groove, movies&tv Cortana to name a few should be available on Amazon fire stick, iPad etc.
  • Just get a droid or iphone....
    Microsoft has always been late to the show and abandoned all hardware except the xbox and surface.
    Zune
    Band
    Windows phone 7
    Windows phone 8 / 8.1
    Windows mobile 10
    Were all screwed up by MS
    And now they're coming out with a speaker to compete with Alexa and a thermostat to compete with nest. Its to late... More projects that will get abandoned
  • Zune players were also an experiment?
    Phones kin?
    Smartphones 7.0-7.8?
    Smartphones 8.0-8.1?
    Smartphones at 10? All this was ruined by Microsoft. And not because they experimented, they just overslept the market, and then came to their senses when Apple started making excellent smartphones, and smartphones on the basis of android are not worse.
    So Microsoft did what it could. Based on the interface of the Zune players and everything that some system is ready for.
    Since then, 7 years have passed, and the "experiment" will continue. Now you will be offered a mini-PC under the guise of a smartphone. That's just a question - are you ready to be an experimental rat again? In turn, I no longer see the Microsoft strategy. In any case, close to me. I can not support what ruins my beloved. They created what I loved and protected, and after a few years they just decided to tell me "Excuse me, bro, it's just an experiment."
    Is the mobile system only in question? No, I have a lot of complaints about the desktop system. To design, functionality. 10-ka on the market for about 2 years, and all I can see in general is the finalization of what the system should have already started at the start (I'm talking about the design of some elements, more convenient and logical tuning, etc.).
    What we are preparing a fundamentally new autumn update? An idiotic app for creating trash videos and disgusting transparency wherever possible? Really?! I know that there are too many fans who blindly believe in the correctness of the way Microsoft and its leadership, but hell, there is no longer any power to remain silent ... And I will add: I will express an unpopular opinion, but I hate the program of Windows Insider. It was after its launch in the system and in general the concept was nothing unique. It feels like the developers of the system and programs (Microsoft) just do not know how to do the system or forgot? What about the designers ?! In the video about the future design, everything is so cute, but in reality it's just something terrible. A lot of people never know what is best for them. Yes, you can search for bugs or suggest any new features, but you do not have to hang all the functions on users. It is you (Microsoft) who must show us their vision, the way we will move, and not read the forums and patch holes and mistakes that you create on an equal footing.
    I liked Metro design, I bought it for Zune from him, got acquainted with one of the best music services (thanks for killing him and created a groove that is inferior), eventually they closed it all. I chose the system for Windows because it was unique. She looked amazing. And now? The usual OS. It's easier to use android. He is even more stable today. Thank you.
  • I have switched over to android for the most part. I purchased the Nokia 6 as soon as it was available and am pretty content with it. Classic Nokia build quality with an all aluminum chassis. Very sturdy phone, but I still prefer Windows OS over android but the writing has been on the wall for a long time now. Nokia originally brought me to windows in 2012 and after 4.5 years I am now using 2 OS platforms. Typing this on my L650 just because of the fluidity of windows even on a cheap phone like the 650 is just a better experience. Still like the live tiles and entering my email information is better on windows. Maybe one day Microsoft will wow the world with an operating system that everyone will flock to. I seriously do not see how people can prefer dead icons to live tiles,....oh I forgot,,apps...apps....and more apps. At least we can pin a web site to our start screen . I always thought that was cool. Oh well.
  • Microsoft should let users of Lumia's install Android. The Lumias 950 have hardware more than enough to run the Android 8
  • Why would I want to put Android on my 950? I like Windows 10 Mobile. It does what I want and I see plenty of updates. What I will get when my contract is up I am not sure. I may go SIM only and see what happens.
  • The point of the Windows Insider program is to be a beta tester, and Microsoft was pretty clear that the 650, 950, and 950 XL are devices for Windows enthusiasts and Insiders. The latest batch of devices from HP and Alcatel are targeted at business users per the mobile retrenchment plan. The only things that don't make sense are why Insiders are on the Feature2 branch, and why Belfiore said that Windows 10 Mobile is the OS for smartphones going forward. Does that mean that the next MS mobile device is not a "smartphone" as know them? Maybe. The only things read and know are rumors and speculation. Which honestly is a good sign, because it means that Microsoft's true plans for mobile are secrets that are most likely kept in the Surface group. I'm an Insider and I'm fine with that. My wife (a normal, not an Insider) couldn't give a rats ass, but she still likes her 950.
  • I wish mobile would stop getting coverage until it actually is a thing again. W10A means nothing for mobile when there isn't a phone to put it on. That they've said we won't get W10A on existing devices, while also doing nothing to announce a new phone, makes this all just a weekly mess of words that echo "Microsoft hates you."
  • That's a very good game plan Coolman.   I think in some capacity MSFT is already working on incorporating some of your vision.  I know Cortana is being integrated into a lot of things right now.  It just seems that MSFT's focus right now is on the cloud space, which to be honest is where the money is.  MSFT is second only to Amazon and that is what seems to be sparking cosumer interest the most.  As a share holder I can attest to that. I do see them moving to include a lot of other things you mentioned, however it will be a methodical process.  I think the fact that the speculated Windows mobile refresh is being worked on my the Hololens team and not the Surface team, speaks to the notion that VR will play a major role and I can assume Cortana will as well.  I do like how MSFT isn't trying to disclose too much information about what they're working on.
  • Oh, who cares already?  What I would really like to see is if Dona Sarkar has a landing strip, goes full Kojak on us, or just lets everything grow wild navel-to-anus non-stop.  
  • I see no problem here.
  • I really hope they announce ARM stuff soon so we don't have any more drawn out speculation articles that I keep being drawn to in the hope there may be some actual new info. That being said if the new Galaxy Note is going to be close to £1k then the market has to be ripe for the connected pc solutions Jason talks about. Phone prices are ridiculous, if it were a full featured PC and had a full surface class pen I'd still struggle with justifying a £1k price but a lot less than a plain old phone slab with marginal desktop capabilities...
  • Another warditorial that forcefeeds a bigass spoonful of bitter truth to the Windows Phone/Mobile community. As a windows on phone user, reading these Jason Ward articles ALWAYS makes me feel worthless.
  • Don't feel bad man. Life is bigger than phones😁
  • It's okay. We have to get on with our lives at some time after beta. But it is a shame that the fit and finish of windows 10 mobile never will come, just as how it went with the other windows phone builds. I don't see it differently with windows 10 on ARM, and with the first glimpses of cshell and windows 10 on ARM, it also has a long way to go and will also be a testbed for years to come. Microsoft could have been at a different place today though, but I think the road will be no different and will be very similar to windows phone and windows 10 mobile. I think it could be better at launch earlier, but windows 10 on arm won't be where it should untill 5 years down the line, if history is our greatest teacher.
  • Guess I am not a beta tester now my windows phone is dead. With no alternative to purchase a new windows phone you forced me to move to a new platform even if I did not want to change.
  • "Well, access to a "person at Microsoft in-the-know" excites users"
    Especially when this person has big boobs and is just an attractive poster girl for nerds
  • Seriously...who in the world would purchase a phone that is running windows, in this century??? If you do, then go and get your head checked!!!
  • Possibly someone coming from a Galaxy S8+. I left my Lumia 950XL for one of those. Two months later I sorely regret it, I've gone straight back. 
  • Saying that we are beta testers is a bit negative I think. I'd say we had the oportunity to taste some of the great things we're gonna see in the future. It's totally fair if MS stops supporting WM10 but in my opinion they won't do it before mobile devices with their new W10 will be released.
  • Had to switch. Gone are all apps that worked with 8 and 8.1 and 10 either because of MS constantly changing store rules and combined with no mobile platform presence. Now, even once a platform pearl, navigation app HERE is on a droid and Ios, but not here any more. Banks, insurances, malls etc... Nobody develops anything for MS mobile or even PC store, that is not intended for desktop use. MS is quickly losing platform numbers and will become nieche and bussines player.
  • Great speculation, prophesying, and conjecture, but what I want from WindowsCentral is some investigative reporting. We're hanging on based on Nadellas' mention last November that an ultimate mobile device will be coming, and Myerson's quote that MS will continue to make phones. Seriously, WC, don't any of you have better contacts at MS that you can get some leaks, some lowdown, some juicy tidbits?! Is MS really that much better at keeping a secret than the Federal government (which leaks every day)? Enough with the speculation - let's hear some inside information. (And I'm assuming that MS actually has a plan for whatever this next ultimate device will be, and when it will arrive.)
  • Great speculation Jason, but it's time for WC to do some investigative reporting. All we've been going on for nearly a year is Nadella's quote from last November that there will be an ultimate mobile device, and Myerson's quote that yes, there will be further phones from MS. Don't any of you at WC have some inside contacts that can give you some anonymous info about what the plan is? Is MS really that much better at keeping secrets than the Federal government (which leaks every day)?! It's time to stop speculating and do some investigative journalism.
  • Great speculation Jason, but it's time for WC to do some investigative reporting. All we've been going on for nearly a year is Nadella's quote from last November that there will be an ultimate mobile device, and Myerson's quote that yes, there will be further phones from MS. Don't any of you at WC have some inside contacts that can give you some anonymous info about what the plan is? Is MS really that much better at keeping secrets than the Federal government (which leaks every day)?! It's time to stop speculating and do some investigative journalism.
  • Hi cheetahwig1 thanks for the response😉Information certainly is not flowing from Redmond as we know. So we use what we've got.😎 Now added to the references you gave is also a statement by Nadella two (2) momths ago in May 2017 stating that MS will be making more phones, not like what's others are making of course. We reported on that here:"https://www.windowscentral.com/satya-nadella-comments-future-windows-phones-im-sure-well-make-more Nadella in May 2017: No one before us thought of 2-in-1s, and we created that category and made it a successful category to the point where there are more 2-in-1s coming. And that's what we want to do. So when you say we'll make more phones, I'm sure we'll make more phones, but they will not look like phones that are there today."
  • I am fine being beta testing these stuff for the most part.  maybe free future device? 
  • I started using Windows Phone since May, 2015 when I dumped Android powered smartphones and I did not regret making that decision. Unfortunately, Microsoft is my main headache for chickening out so easily and so soon. If they have held on in the highly competitive market they would gain enough traction to occupy a significant level. I am still happily hold unto my Lumia 640 XL Dual sim.
  • I started using Windows Phone since May, 2015 when I dumped Android powered smartphones and I did not regret making that decision. Unfortunately, Microsoft is my main headache for chickening out so easily and o soon. I am still happily hold unto my Lumia 640 XL Dual sim.
  • I've been a Windows Phone fan for 7 years now and I would really like to see connected portable PCs powered by WP10 appear on the market and gain popularity. But honestly, I can't conceive how MS is going to boost the popularity of these future devices, if for years now they didn't manage to increase the market share of WP.