Would another Windows phone 'reset' be that bad of an idea?

Microsoft's mobile ambitions have seen their share of resets, seemingly every few years over the past decade, frequently leaving behind current users in the process. It happened with the jump between Windows Mobile 6.5 and Windows Phone 7 in 2010, and again with Windows Phone 7 to Windows Phone 8 just two years later. So is it so hard to imagine that yet another reset is on its way between Windows 10 Mobile and whatever is supposed to be coming next?

Let's be real for a minute here. Windows 10 Mobile isn't exactly shaking up the industry. But Microsoft simply can't, and likely won't, abandon the mobile market — that would be suicidal in a world that's increasingly mobile dominant. Windows needs a foot in the mobile market, somehow, somewhere, and it's evident that Windows 10 Mobile as it currently is won't be that platform for Microsoft.

So, assuming Microsoft is working on something new for the mobile market, powered by Windows, would another platform reset be such a bad idea? The likelihood of another reset is actually pretty high if you think about it. With Microsoft already cutting off support for devices like the Lumia 930 and 1520, which I'd argue can run the current builds of Windows 10 Mobile absolutely fine, I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Microsoft cut off the remaining devices support within the next year and start fresh with new software.

What's more, with rumors that Microsoft is looking to bring Windows 10 on ARM (whether that be desktop Windows, or another SKU entirely is still up for debate), Microsoft will likely use this as an opportunity to leave behind current adopters and start afresh, just like before with Windows Phone 8. Microsoft ended up releasing a Windows Phone 7.8 update for Windows Phone 7 users at the time, as a sort of swan song update. Rumors suggest these new "feature2" builds for Windows 10 Mobile are following in those exact footsteps.

Now, unlike the jump between Windows Phone 7 and Windows Phone 8, another platform reset this time wouldn't necessarily be due to technical limitations. It might be, in some instances, but most modern devices like the HP Elite x3 should be able to run whatever Microsoft is planning for the future just fine. By the time Microsoft is ready to "try again" in the mobile industry, these devices might old enough to warrant being left behind anyway, so who knows in that regards.

It's completely possible that another reset might be the very last straw for fans. It doesn't exactly paint an encouraging picture, and I'm sure questions such as "how do we know they won't do this again in another four years?" will begin to be asked. It's a legitimate question, and one that I expect fans will definitely be wondering to themselves when they're thinking about buying whatever Microsoft plans to offer next. That's if Microsoft plans on offering something in the future. At this point who even knows?

But would another platform reset really be that bad of an idea? A the very least it would allow Microsoft yet another attempt at bringing a successful platform to the mobile market, and as fans I know that's exactly what we're hoping for. At this point, the small Windows 10 Mobile user base is composed primarily of fans, so the outrage at leaving Windows 10 Mobile behind might not be as bad compared to previous platform resets (which admittedly also happened to small user bases).

I think, if there's ever been a better time for a reset, that time would be now. You burn the least amount of people possible, and while some will be angry, it's not like anybody's phone is going to stop doing the things it did before the new version came out. Besides, the number of people to potentially upset here is so low that it might not even matter if they're upset anyway, right?

Of course, the best case scenario would be that a platform reset doesn't need to occur, and whatever Microsoft's next attempt at a mobile platform is can come to older devices too. But even if that isn't the case, the next Microsoft mobile platform might not be ready for a while, so maybe by the time they are ready today's devices won't be good enough anyway. Or there'll be nobody left to upset.

Zac Bowden is a Senior Editor at Windows Central. Bringing you exclusive coverage into the world of Windows on PCs, tablets, phones, and more. Also an avid collector of rare Microsoft prototype devices! Keep in touch on Twitter: @zacbowden.

620 Comments

3 strikes you're out
Life, technology, and most things do not compare to baseball games. It's more complicated than that, but it's easy for people to fall back to simple idioms as a way to cope.
I think he was referring to the author
See, this is what happens when we encourage a bunch of biased iFans to join our site... Disrespecting the man who has stood by our platform for decades..... A bunch of newcomers who have no real appreciation for Windows on a mobile device, or Windows in general... They're just here to get tips on how to use their PC... They could care less if WP/WM dies.....
And, it's obvious by what comments are supported.
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I hope the day comes where MS gets some Mobile nuts, has some serious Windows Mobile devices, so WC can flood the site with Mobile news... Drive the iDroid fans back where they belong, because this site is gone.
I agree with you, as much as i'm waiting for a good Mobile Device by Microsoft that can make call, i don't care you call it a smartphone or a PC Phone (PCP, lol), it's good to have other opinions, good or bads. I understand some peoples are frustrated by the wait, but i'm sure Microsoft is working on something that really worth our wait and our patience will be honored. Surface Call or Surface Glass as name will be fun, i don't know if they will keep Phone as Phone is becoming old fashion. Smartphone is dead...
Oh man! Daniel, I think you win the internet for today :)
Daniel is out of his mind. Clearly, Windows Central is suffering because Windows Phone tanked and so he's trying to drum up false hope to drive traffic. Sorry, Windows Mobile has no chance. The market has spoken... and Microsoft isn't even in the conversation.
Bingo
The market is running behind the facts. Current smartphone technology with apps and lack of cross platform OS (apart from WIN10 in the works) is dead end technology. iOS, Android is last decade technology. It is perfect when looking at it from yesterday's / today's view but it is not the future despite a few billion smartphones that will retire in max 5 years anyhow.... So MS is looking 10 years forward preparing for a much more challenging battle iOT, bots, ultramobile computing devices with phone functionality, AI etc. etc.. Just before the first car was introduced everyone was betting on horses and carriages.... well that changed didn't it?
Then why the Fuqe are you wasting your time here!
If you're so sure about everything you say then that means you come here to troll..... Why are you here❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓
You've been hit by the sun or stone because since when Windows Central is about only Mobile Phone, if really it's suffering, what are you doing here? I visit a lot of tech blogs everyday and the one that has the most comments is Windows Central, funny no?
True, some of the most famous individuals: Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Edison, Steve Jobs, George Lucas, and many others, failed multiple times before they saw success. Some famous success stories weren't successful until they were well into middle age! Still though, I see the point Sedp23 is making, which is about consumer patience.
Im a Microsoft guy got everything Microsoft but how much patience will consumers have? Facebook is a major app and hasn't been updated in over 6 months and outdated compared to ios and android. A device reboot won't change the app situation
I hate arguing, but how can you know what the future holds? The problem for me isn't the refresh'es, but their inability to market their idea. Then later report that it's not popular so they're canceling it. If they don't put it out there, what do they expect to get from it?
True. If they dont fix their abysmal marketing, this will continue to happen to them.
This is their main issue in general.
Yes, Marketing is key. I've been saying this for years. Sad the non believers disagreed with me, now look.
Marketing only gets you so far. You really need a great product to back it up. Microsoft heavily marketed Windows Phone 7 and even Windows Phone 8 along with Nokia. They spent a lot of money marketing those platforms and it didn't help at all.
😂😂😂😂😂😂... No, they could've done a lot better, and WP8.1 was doing better, and better. Even with thier crappy marketing it could've been something by now, at the rate it was going... With even better marketing it would've been that much more by now.... The fact is that we wouldn't be here today talking about any if this negative BS..
WP8 never did anything. It only maxed out at 10.5 million sales in a quarter when Android would do that in a week. It wouldn't matter how hard Microsoft marketed Windows phones. The platform isn't compelling for manufacturers or consumers. Those WP7 ads were on TV non-stop in the US. It was almost annoying! https://www.engadget.com/2010/10/18/microsoft-to-spend-one-billion-dolla...
Never said it competed with Android, or iOS.. That's besides the point.. The fact is that it was not stagnant. It was growing, and it should've kept growing, if anything for MS's app store. Big name apps were coming, and the store was growing, even faster than the iDroid app stores at certain points... Developer support was on the rise... That's what's important... Even then, phones like the 1020 were making a name for WP as a viable third option.. WP8-8.1 had something, and was progressing.. It was MS's mobile strategy, and it was literally working, although slowly, but surely.... Now, as it seems, MS has no (transparent) mobile strategy, and mobile is where it's at.. You can't convince me that retrenching was a good idea, and that it wouldn't have mattered.. It does matter... Now, it will be even harder for MS to win back the developers they had, less known than new ones.......
But it was stagnant. If you only have 3% of the market after 4 years, that is definitely not growth, especially when the vast majority of those devices were the cheapest you could make. Where do you see growth? Looks really flat to me! http://core0.staticworld.net/images/idge/imported/article/ctw/2014/08/14...
Was the app store not growing? Was the amount of OEM'S nor growing??? Really? There was a new OEM to talk about everyday!! Market share was growing very slowly, buy you can't say it wasn't on the rise.. Eventually it would've picked up! It show more promise than it did now that's the point.
Look at the graph. It wasn't growing, the line is flat. You think Microsoft or Nokia was happy with tiny sales of low end devices? Obviously they weren't. They both dropped the platform. Doesn't sound very promising at all!
This is the list of OEM'S after MS detailed it's plans at Build 2014.. They all immediately jumped onboard... Now, they have been let down.. MS could've kept this momentum going. You may not see that as growth, or momentum, and that's fine, but it was. Look at that list!
............. Hisence
Xolo
HTC
Samsung
LG
Lenovo
Nokia/MS
BLU
Micromax
Karbonn
Lava
Foxconn
Kazam
NGM... Harley Davidson edition
Alcatel
Cherry Mobile
Polaroid?.... Still in limbo.
Archos
Bush by Argos
Trekstor
Acer Liquid M220
Prestigio
Yezz
Fly
eSence
Allview
Gionee
K-touch
Q- Mobile
ZTE?
My Go
Celkon
Highscreen Owned by Vobis Computer Russia based.
Miia Italy based iimotionMWP-47
OnePlus still considering.
Pinnacle Africa proline sp4
Coship Mobile
Ramos Q7
Mouse Computer MADOSMA
Condor Griffe W1
Freetel katana 01
Yamada Denki Every Phone
NuAns
........
A few were already there, but the rest came that same year... Never has MS had that much promise for mobile... That list could be QUADRUPLE by now... I'm sure if they kept going it would be.. I'm sorry, but totally retrenching like they did was a bad move. No doubt WP, W10 Mobile, and whatever is around the corner, would be having a much better time now. Are you sure you were around back then? Or did you forget?. Lol
Did any of those "OEMs" put any effort into their Windows device? Did they have big marketing campaigns for them? Was a single one successful? Nope. Only few of them even released devices and sales were terrible and they were dropped soon after.
You're right, they didn't, and it's all because MS didn't do it's part... That's the point! Hahahaha 😂
Hey Rodney, don't bother arguing with this guy. He will just keep throwing out stupid numbers and shooting down ANYTHING you or anybody has to say regarding the success/non success of WP. He has some warped obsession with telling us that just because WP didn't sell billions of phones like the other 2 OS's that it was not successful.
Well, it wasn't successful, and I'm not arguing that... Fact is that it could've been made successful if it was managed correctly... Even with poor management it was hanging in there.. But, yes. It's a stupid argument now.
It had momentum in Europe in 2015. https://nokiapoweruser.com/kantars-latest-report-says-windows-phone-grew...
In US, Windows Phone has seen sales share growth from 3.8% to 4.3% Month on Month from December 2014 to January 2015. In case of UK, Italy, Germany and France also, there has been sales share growth for Windows Phone month on month from December 2014 to January 2015. Overall in case of EU5, the sales share stands at 9.6% in January 2015. UK- 6.6% to 7.4% Italy- 12.7% to 13.2% Germany- 7.4% to 8.9% France- 11.6% to 13%
All they had to do was keep pushing, and keep releasing new phones. It would not have won over iOS or Android, but W10M would still have been alive. Up until Q1 2016 we still saw new apps on a daily basis and only few being abandoned. Hell, most big apps were getting new W10 versions. But Stupidella killed Windows Phone. Ballmer still had hope and passion. Windows 8, 8.1, 10 - Thanks Ballmer Surface department - Thanks Ballmer HoloLens - Thanks Ballmer Band - Thanks Ballmer (burried thanks to Nadella) Phones - Thanks Ballmer, although struggling (burried thanks to Nadella)
That quarter you mention they sold 10.5 million Windows phones. Those percentages didn't really add many sales. The next quarter things dropped substantially, especially revenue: http://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-sold-86-million-lumia-phones-its... Then sales dropped again the next quarter: https://www.onmsft.com/news/microsoft-fy15-q4-windows-phone-revenue-fall... That momentum you claim didn't continue and this was when Microsoft was still pushing Windows phone and there were plenty of devices available. Maybe if they were selling the high end devices it would have been ok, but they weren't. Only the cheapest phones were selling and revenue was way down because of this.
Windows 10 - Absolutely not Ballmer. Windows 10 (Nadella) is fixing the mistake that was Windows 8 (Ballmer). Ballmer though developers would love to write code twice and then sell it once on the "universal" platform. If you want to talk about what definitely did not help the app gap, that's a huge one right there. He may have chanted developers repeatedly, but he had no clue what he was asking them to do. The Surface line only took off a few months *after* Nadella took over. Anyone who thinks Ballmer was good for Microsoft has no idea what they're talking about. The Band had no developers either. That's what killed it. Plus, they even said from the get-go that their whole point was to sell the sensor kit and API to other people. It didn't sell anything until very recently to Casio. So I wouldn't thank anyone for the Band. From a commercial standpoint, it was always a failure, no matter how much any of us liked it. Plus, most of its design was probably done under Nadella anyway. So if you're going to give any praise to the Band, it goes to Nadella, and any criticism, it also goes to Nadella. HoloLens may have started under Ballmer (i'm finding it difficult to nail it down), but it never got anywhere until under Nadella. I dont' think people really understood how bad Ballmer was for Microsoft or how good Nadella is doing for Microsoft. I'll ding him for poorly communicating the mobile vision, but i find it difficult to disagree with any of his moves so far. They're not popular, but they're the only moves possible to keep any hope of mobile alive. People forget this is a publicly traded company and they can't just throw millions of dollars at a segment where they had such low marketshare. You can solve any problem with unlimited resources. Microsoft doesn't have that.
The fault is that MS should have developed and evolved windows phone much faster. It was obviously less attractive visually and the live tiles should have evolved much sooner. Compared to Google that only had Android and showed dedication each year, MS was comfy with their PC market and did not push enough on mobile. Today, even though W10M has many things I like, it finds itself lacking user base, apps and developers interested in it
Yep. You're right. That mixed with insufficient marketing was the problem. End of story.
Microsoft also could open up the platform and allow the manufacturers to help with development. Google didn't get Android where it is today by themselves. They had all the manufacturers working on it and innovating and adding to the software. Giving them this control also made them more involved with the platform and made them take an active interest in making it successful. Microsoft really has not leveraged the OEMs like Google did.
You mean the custom user interfaces that the Android OEMs have on their phones? I was thinking MS should help them, take WhartonBrooks for example that had to start a kickstarter campaign to gather funds, or NuAns that tried something similar to see if people were interested in them making efforts to go to other markets with their Neo. Even bigger OEMs like Alcatel and HP. The Elite x3 was barely present on the market here, only 2 online sites that had it for 1000$, while the Idol 4S remained in the States where people mostly ignored it under a sea of iPhones and Galaxies
Android OEMs can add much more than custom interfaces. They can also add any features or hardware they like to their devices. They have no control over these things with Windows phones. It is all dependent on Microsoft.
Who cares what android did in week? 10.5m was still a good amount of devices. Pretty sure MS didn't think they would overtake the other two-ever. This is where you are consistently wrong in making this stupid and worthless comparison.
WP8.1 was doing plenty good. Was doing good until MS decided to reboot again.
10.5 million would be ok if they were $700 phones, but Microsoft was only selling $100 phones. Their high end phones didn't sell well at all.
They didn't have anything I considered 'high end' until the 950 XL but by then the marketing was gone and it was 'for the fans'.
It might not have succeeded on a global scale or in the US but before MS adopted the current failed strategy 8.1 was at over 10% market share in a number of markets Inc the UK and was beginning to get traction from an app development perspective from U.K businesses and being recognised more widely by consumers and business as a viable option. Microsoft threw this chance to become a valid third platform option away because it didn't reflect reality in the US where there leadership are based and then backed away further with the current strategy for Windows 10 which again just shows Microsoft don't get the mobile market outside the US. At this point I can see arguments both ways for another resets and would be inclined to support if it will get to a more long term sustainable position but can't frankly see it making any difference to their mobile fortunes. Unfortunately at this point it is too late for MS in mobile and this is a major risk to their wider strategy.
I think it helped. It all made way for a niche market and a fan base, which continues even today.
W10m fetched no new users, only those who had known WP came.
That is the problem for you, the real problem is what sedp23 eluded to with the facebook app. That problem is the apps plain and simple, people can say it is not, but it is. Windows needs to have app parity with the other two. meaning if there is a new app that is going to be popular, it launches on all three platforms and at the same quality in the same time frame.
Just look at what is the official update from MS about the new authenticatorfeature. It says with less than 5% usage it doesn't make sense to develop for W10m. If MS feels its worthless how can u expect to attract other devs
Exactly, and that's why UWP will now fail now too. There's two types of developers left today; those that never believed in Microsoft, and those that did and got burned by Nadella's retrenchment and lack of a communicated strategy and plan. Like you said, even the developers that Microsoft pays don't believe in Microsoft platforms. Just check out the Garage apps. Reset? Why not? It cannot possibly be any worse than the ditch Nadella drove Microsoft into already? Over three years into his leadership and even the most ardent supporters and closest observers have no clue what the heck he's doing. It's become obvious, that's because he has no clue what he's doing. Over three years in; where is mobile? Where is AR/VR? Where is wearables? Where is IOT? Where is home automation? All of these opportunities can be found in abundance on Googles platform. What has he been doing the last 3+ years? The guy has no urgency on anything, while other companies run by him. Microsoft does need an urgent reset, but at the CEO position. They'll wait until the stock price collapses, and that's as sure as Android powering the next wave of cool devices.
Have been developing a new concept app with UWP. Presently it's been a real slog. Things I had working fine suddenly break and getting them fixed hasn't worked. Being very asynchronous debugging is challenge, everything takes longer to complete. Now in a decision phase about continuing with UWP or doing a reset myself. Ordered an S3 after using only Windows phones since 03. At first I felt guilty until I learned about others as committed as me switching as many MS employees have too.
Yea, With UWP they really tried to buckle down and enforce alot of "Best Practices" which should make for a more robust easier to update and performant app, but the reality is it really increased the difficulty for beginners. Windows Phone Silverlite was stupid easy to program for because they didn't enforce "Best Practices" like they do now.
well said.
I'm sure this has already been stated by now, but would a reset really affect a whole lot going forward? Apps will still be universal, and if the new "branch" of Windows 10 Mobile comes out of OneCore, how different would it truly be? It'd basically be the same that we're used to, likely just requiring better hardware. I don't think that it would end up being a *huge* reset if that were the case.
Just reading your comment on apps and developers got me thinking of Rudy Huyn. I wonder if he is still deeply (at heart, not just as a paycheck - with Dropbox or otherwise) passionate about the Windows platform with all the "retrenchment".
+1 Rudy was equivalent of windows apps jesus
Nadella wasn't in charge of Microsoft the past decade. Any ditch he is climbing out of was dug by Balmer.
None of those things from google - wearables, IoT, AR/VR or home automation are particularly a) functionally useful or b) popular on the market. Being the first to release a half-pie product like amazon home or similar, does not make your product a wild success. What microsoft needs is something wildly popular, not a half pie product. It needs the same mentality as apple had when it nearly sunk in desktop - wait for the next big thing, develop, cut costs, make your product not the first, but the best. Its totally too early to call. Voice as a primary input medium hasn't taken off. VR isn't affordable or mainstream. Home smart systems are primarily novelty toys.
Google is already rolling next versions, and it didn't abandon millions of customers and developers in its strategy. The first Android watches weren't good, but Devs, OEMs, and Google kept grinding. Now they are good, and the Microsoft Band? Great leadership Nadella, you lost Mobile and wearables, and home automation is your next great failure, guaranteed.
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Even if Nadella ever releases his fantasy "Ultimate Mobile Device", the Android Army will run it down in a few months. In fact, they may actually beat Microsoft to a truly useable "Continuum" device, and foldable phone, and more. He has the company running in slow motion with no urgency. Where is a HoloLens consumer device, where are the cheap VR devices they promised last October for "early next year"? Its almost May, so that got lost with the promised People Hub. Great leadership Nadella.
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I'm not saying Microsoft can't turn this disaster around, but I am saying that Nadella doesn't have the heart, fire, and balls to do it.
Amazon home is successful. They sold millions of those, especially during the holidays. We will see if it continues though. Microsoft hasn't even released their "me too" product yet. Maybe "soon" and it will be half baked at launch. Classic Microsoft.
Let's see if you're just here to disagree.
.........
Surface has been a success...
Surface has been a success in it's mission to inspire OEMs to create better hardware. It has done well commercially as well, although sales are down a bit recently. I don't Microsoft really cares though, it is premium hardware and the margins must be great. It hasn't really turned Windows around though. Surface is great hardware, but right now Microsoft needs some great software to go along with it.
Agree, well said.
Microsoft is quickly becoming like IBM--a faceless company that consumers don't care about. The "cloud" may make shareholders happy... but consumers don't give a rat's @ass about the cloud.
They don't feel it's worth developing for because they know they're about to make the jump to WoA. I'll bet the Authenticator app on W10 has the ability.
And how would u archieve that?
We may be moving towards a world of advanced web apps that are truly universal. If so, the app gap problem will be resolved. Pay close attention to the MSFT May 2nd event to see what they say about Windows Cloud and again at this year's //Build conference.
Nope, the real problem has been marketing all along, just like Jason said yesterday.
Totally agree. W10M Lack of success has nothing to do with the platform, which is now good enough. Who is going to convince developers to invest in maintaining an app for a 3rd platform? They certainly don't want to. What will make it worth it? Lots of users! But how do you get users? Lots of apps - specifically, the most sought after, new and cool, and special purpose apps. Although its my favorite platform, W10M is stuck in a death spiral, along with Beta video and HDDVD.
Do you believe there's a future with Windows on a poketable mobile device using WOA/Cshell?
Windows Mobile's failure has everything to do with the platform. It might be "good enough" now, but this is 2017. It needs to be "#&$@ing amazing" if it wants to gain traction today. "Good enough" isn't going to cut it. Android isn't "good enough" and neither is iOS. They are both fantastic platforms. Windows Phone really needed to be amazing back in 2011 when Microsoft started this journey. They really needed to bring their A game, but unfortunately, they brought the D team.
The only thing that makes android and iOS "fantastic" are the apps. Having used android now since November it is nowhere near windows when it comes to simplicity and usability at the OS level. If windows 10 mobile had the same app library I'd jump back in a minute.
What about iOS, it's so easy to use. Basically share a number of gesture similarities with Windows Mobile. Learnt this cos of a cross platform agreement. What's in an OS that has no apps to run?
How about a counter argument, does not knowing the future with 100% certainty mean it won't happen like he says? Or does it mean you know the future better than him? You can't say he or you are right or wrong until the future becomes past. What you can do is not copy his actions in planning for the future because you think he's wrong. Another thing, if hindsight is 20/20, why don't we have eyes on the hiney? Did I blow your mind yet?
As stated, Microsoft continues to have an app problem, and it has extended to desktop. UWP is only useful if mobile is part of the picture. Microsoft has already had a platform (3 in fact) that ran some form of Win32 APIs, so all the ball-bagging about Win32 isn't really productive. All the hardware in the world didn't help Windows 8, didn't help WIndows RT, didn't help Windows Phone 7, 8, 8.1, 10m. Maybe if Microsoft works on an Android app import, and quickly moves many Win32 APIs to UWP so the apps have Windows workalike APIs, things might change. The future is mobile, and it isn't just Surface tablets, its handheld devices, whether you want to call them phones or cellular PCs.
very true, case in point i was looking for some smart bulbs the other day, many manufacturers have their app only on Apple or Android, they don't think "oh, this is inside of somebody's home, millions of them will have a Surface with them..." so Microsoft's mobile problems are following them into the home and in iot...
It is not 'marketing' really. Nadella made a virtually 'I surrender' speech in July, 2015, 3 months before the release of W10M and L950/L950XL. He didn't even give W10M a chance. Everything went downhill ever since. He went ahead to pull WP out of most markets, close plants, sell out whole old Nokia and stop releasing new phones. Personally, I think it was a deliberate atempt to kill off WP. For Nadella, WP is simply not worth existing, marketing or fighting for. He has no heart and passion in WP. He is a Cloud guy. To reset W10M, you need to reset CEO first.
Exactly...They must have the worst marketing team ever..look at the Zune HD far superior but it wad never marketed.
watch what happens when they release the best phoneever, nothing cause they wont have google apps, they will be missing to many needed features like mobile pay working out of box in shops like android and apple do now and then look at how microsft has treeted the consumer in the last 4 years, you dont need to be a clairvoiant to realise that microsft has dug themselves a huge hole. Ive whitnessed some of the most stupid things ive ever seen a company do. Threaten people to remove free onedrive storeage and peenalise the very mobile fan base that wasnt involved in mass storage, then weeks laster release a 950. Great timeing, upset your user base then2 weeks later while its fresh in their minds try sell them a windows mobile. phone lol. At the same time apple doubled their storage for iphone users for free lol. I know that in 5-10 years time most people runing companies will be android or iphone users, they wont want to upgrade or creat a microsft cloud infrastructue, theyll want apple or android and i think we have already started seeing that happen. Look at schooles most have ipads lol., add that to consumers being angry today i dont tink its a far reach to predict trouble for microsft. I love all their os, i think 10 on desktop is amazuing but edge restrictions in new tabs sucks. I love live tiles on mobile and think 8.1 mobil;e was the best os, with gerstyures missing and other apps missing features i used to have i cant say the same about windows 10, hell even my windows phones with windows 10 have terrible battry life these days and it used to rule. How can microsft do well when they are looking like they arent doing anything.
"I know that in 5-10 years time most people runing companies will be android or iphone users, they wont want to upgrade or creat a microsft cloud infrastructue, theyll want apple or android and i think we have already started seeing that happen." let's translate that to 19th century situation. Everybody is using horse and carriage, so people will continue to ride horse and carriages for the next decade. Nobody is going to use that new upcoming device called automobile..... just food for thought (pardon my typos)
It's more than just one problem. It's the refreshes , dropped device support (Lumia 900 anybody) and no apps. All of that ruins the consumer confidence in the product
Ms really need to employ some amazing advertising teams zune was a great mp3 player how many people ever heard of it? Ask someone if they've heard of the iPod...
You people are delusional if you think Microsoft still has a shot in mobile. lol The mobile market has already matured. It's moved on. Microsoft had its shot... and BLEW IT... BIG TIME!
Enough with the frickin marketing, it's based on an assumption that most people are chumpy sheep and us zealots are the only ones with the mental capacity to be able to see those slick ads for the bullshit they are. The phone market is saturated and most people aren't dissatisfied with what they have already. Look at WM dispassionately and there just aren't any compelling reasons to switch. There have to be differentiating features that are worth marketing before marketing will achieve anything.
What does facebook have to do with Microsot, Windows, or Windows Phone?? Focus!
It's a huge app that's outdated that's part of the problem developer support... A device refresh doesn't fix the developer problem
Sweet Lord, you guys have got to do better than this.
as someone who loved windows mobile 8.1 and liked mobiel 10 im now a s7 edge use and the apps arew just better. facebook is alot better, smoother and pleasurable, You tube official app may have adds but it works great unlike the unreliable merto tube or tubecast that frequently bug out and dont work with live shows. live tiles is awsoem but when apps like paypal or myfitnesspal or even here maps are gone then you know thers some real issues going on.
Nailed it! It is the Devs that are going to flee yet another change. It won't be that big of a deal to us since many of us are overdue for a new phone anyway (VERIZON!).
Oh come on, are you being deliberately obtuse? Facebook is still THE most widely used app across all platforms. I love my Lumia 950, but the app is appallingly slow to open, and in use. The FB app is MICROSOFT'S OWN! Yet they cannot be bothered to assign a couple developers to improve or update it. Not exactly convincing a consumer bass to return to the platform is it? Yes, there are always the 'I don't need any apps, I'm happy' users. But they are by FAR the minority across all platforms. Most people using a mobile phone will want at least a bassline of usable apps, and FB is easily in the top 3 that a mobile platform MUST have.
as a note, if you're using the facebook app made by microsoft, you're using a severely outdated version. facebook released their own app and their own version of messenger a looong time ago.
The official app from facebook is severely outdated too. So what is he supposed to do about that?
You sure about that?
Microsoft's Facebook app is fast. The slow one is designed and developed by Facebook themselves. It's written using their own cross platform toolkit - and is partially the reason it's so big.
@Jason Ross2, Facebook and Instagram on WM10 / W10 are actually Osmeta ports.
I made the official jump yesterday, Best Buy has the zte axon 7 mini for $200. I was waiting to pick up a flagship but this phone is a steal for that price. Takes some getting used to, but the increase in functionality is amazing. Wish I'd switched a long time ago.
Yeah, agree entirely. Apps are indispensable for phones and tablets.
Of course it would, because any reset will run Android or iOS apps. If it didn't, what would be the point? On the other hand, I don't think what's coming qualifies as a reset. Some of us have been pointing out for well over a year now that MSFT is moving towards one truly universal OS across all devices. And while it's true that current (read "old") devices will most likely not be powerful enough to run Windows on ARM when it's launched, all of the current developers' UWP apps will run is if nothing has changed. Very few people have invested in flagship hardware recently b/c there really hasn't been any available - again, part of MSFT's long range planning. Only Idol 4s and Elite x3 owners are likely to feel a little hurt by this. Everyone else will have long since gotten their money's worth out of their device and be champing at the bit for an upgrade.
That I agree with.
I use the web interface on all devices.
So true,application tends to crash and still no live video.
Sure it will. It's obvious they are planning to head down the path of running full x86 on mobile. If developers won't develop for windows mobile then build a mobile device that works with the existing millions of windows apps.
True to that...
Yikes, condescend much?
I wouldn't say it's that condescending. The last part is unnecessary commentary, but ther overall point is fair. Common idioms may seem poignant, but they tend to oversimplify things.
even the best phone without apps is a dead phone
Agreed
How true!? I left windows for IOS! Why? I am a diabetic and there was an app that I used to help control my insulin intake with the diabetic calculator! It is no longer there. I left and not even thinking about going back until they improve the apps that can be useful!
Same reason my Dad went to iOS. They actually had an Android app, but my sister convinced him to go iOS
did he ever forgive her? /s
lol, he doesn't seem to mind it. But she convinced him to get that, because it was easier for them to do FaceTime. We're in PA, and she's in Baltimore, so he misses her (I certainly don't, but that's another converstation, lol). I had him all but convinced Android, but she swayed him with that. And of course, I'm sure W10M didn't have the app he needed for his glucose meter.
jeez folks, did everyone forget the meaning of the "/s" for sarcasm? i can't even sarcastically make fun of iOS on a windows forum without getting downvoted? dang... some people have fragile egos...
Adding in Android emulation for apps is MS' only prayer, to bogart the Android app library. Developers won't go back to MS and give them another chance at this point, and Win32 apps aren't the answer to anything for mobile usage. It annoys me that someone at MS saw this and knew this, hence building the emulation in, but then got shut down before it ever came to fruition. I'd love to dive through a portal to the dimension where W10M officially got that Android emulation to see where it'd be standing today having the full (well, non-Google) Android app library at its disposal.
Doubtful. Amazon appstore has less apps than the windows store. Most apps check for play services which requires full relatively stock android, and a license from google. Adding the amazon app store wouldn't really help much. UWP is growing just fine. What MS needs is to win the cheap tablet sector, and the cheap laptop sector from google. WIndows and bugdet are the only growth sectors in tablets. Samsung and Apple have been falling for years now. And then there's the chromebook. If windows cloud, and windows on arm, can capture the budget market for tablets and laptops - then UWP as a platform will have MUCH more use. I mean I use it all the time on tablet and desktop, but capturing those budget markets, that's what will set the windows store on fire.
i feel like people that say Microsoft should depend on the Amazon appstore are people who have only used Android devices from Google. It's ridiculous some of the big name apps that are missing. You can't even use a Garmin device with a Fire phone/tablet.
Yeah, well, life also seldom gives you second chances. Let alone third chances.
Yea, Microsoft had a lot of chances and they blew a lot, was position isnt 100% their fault, but they made their share of bad decisions
Microsoft is more like...."Hey every 4 years let's start from the scrach...just for fun"
come on, not necessary
the whole platform was restarted many times: WP7/8/8.1/10/10M - HW we got some expensive and powerfull devices like the X3 / 950XL = nothing changed the problem is the same... APP GAP.... and not just that. People love Android / iOS and dont want to switch to a new brand. This is a mayor problem too
Yes,is true.More peoples don't care aobut OS,they say is bad or something but they didn;t used never...
i know quite a few poeple who want to try wiondows mobile but each of them said the same thing, no google apps is a big issue for them, no bank apps is a big issue for them, hell in 2018 no mobile pay working out of the box will be a big issue for them.
that's not restarting a whole platform. Within the list you gave, there was *one* reboot of the platform. From 6.5 to 7, from 7.8 to 8. Windows 10 is backwards compatible with 8 and 8.1 apps. Getting a new version number is not the same as restarting.
In 5 years from now are you sure apps will still be around compared to bots, Ai, Vr etc.? MS is no longer fighting today's battle. I think that's the right approach. MS is trying to set the future war scene . If they are right the market will adapt as easily as they adapted from BB / Nokia to Apple /Android
Rubino you don't win the internet for the day, you're quite a bit emotional on this one. I'm considering moving on for a while, but I have an elite so I can come back when something new arrives but all these resets and such is beyond ridiculous. They need to fire dona or move her and Gabe aul to something more useful for them. This is beyond ridiculous and heads need to roll over this debacle. And you can say why fire, they did it to the sinofsky guy and ppl are ok. That one guy belfiore shouldn't be off the hook either
Dona isn't the reason Windows 10 Mobile has an app problem. She's been great as far as reaching out to the community.
Gabe wasn't the problem, and neither is Dona. They are/were doing their jobs fine. The problem is the app gap, and Microsoft not supporting their own damn mobile platform.
Hey, coping is what we do here. ^ Joke. But in all seriousness, engaging in contstructive dialogue with Microsoft or its close representatives is a tough ask of fans of Windows Mobile. It's hard to be honest without being hypercritical, and it's hard to be encouraging period. For what it's worth, I think any of us would give Windows Mobile another chance, whether or not we say so now. I, for one, still prefer it to Android and iOS from a UX standpoint. Whether or not I feel Microsoft deserves that support is less relevant.
once I change ecosystems... no turning back.
Dan, to be fair you as an author, and we as users having been trying to cope (and justfy) each resets of Microsoft wince Windows Phone 7. Each time I have heard you say its going to be a positive move (the reset) and we will get better new exciting things with each reset on the Phone front at least. Well, that coping mechanism did not work out that well either.
I don't think it has anything to do with the OS itself. MS Mobile platform failed because you could not get all the native apps available to Android and iOS. People want iG's version of the app, kik, FB, twitter, etc that are from the actual companies themselves that have the full features of their android and ios counterparts, not some cobbled together 3rd party junk. The MS Mobile OS needed some intereface tweaking as well. Over all it was a great performer but it lacked features that android and ios have, and if you want to get people to migrate you have to have something familar for them to latch on to. Most of my users hated the metro UI on their PC, there is no way I could get them to use it on their phones.
Daniel, personally I think if we're talking about another reset, using Cshell, that would be the best thing that ever happened to Windows on pocketable devices. Don't you agree?
With an almost unlimited budget, Microsoft can do whatever they want, and pretty much they do. With that said, this next go around if they truly want to be successful then communicate you intentions. I realize there has to be a certain amount of secrecy but the way MS is handling mobile is extremely unproductive and too unpredictable to garner support from businesses that truly depend on a mobile solution. Only true MS mobile fans put up with the frustration that is mobile today and still come back for more...myself included. Take the true fans and tell them straight out that you will be our guinea pigs, stop with the half baked support...either you will or wont update older hardware...admit defeat definitively and stop with this "soon" crap. Stop wasting peoples time and trying to save face and tell people honestly that you have a vested interest in the Apple and Android platform success in reference to software and services integration. Launch your solution and support it! PERIOD.
Really? You're going to discard his statement and opinion based on a baseball reference and insinuating he is only saying it to cope? Yikes
Lol Daniel I miss the times you wrote about how Windows Mobile is not dead and is doing the "right thing"... I always kept arguing with you and suddenly you never wrote an article about WM10. Even the biggest fans lose their patience and just saying "now is the time the less people will get burned" is not very smart. Those getting burned are your last support and the rest of the world is watching what happens and will just see themselves being right after the reset.
Belittling your readers. Great way to foster a sense of community.
He's been doing it for years and I have only seen this site grow. Still while it was said in a very belittling way, there is some truth behind it. How can you equate baseball with technology? I mean look at Apple. They have had their fair share of issues too, well more than 3 strikes, but they are not out by any means. I think the point being that it is a different world than baseball and maybe just maybe we should not try to apply something that is never going to work. In this case 3 strikes and you're out really does not work for technology.
Rubino has always been like that, not overly professional at times. He seems to think he's being funny. It's okay for him to occasionally have a go at Microsoft, but when anyone else does it he goes into snarky apologist mode, because y'know...we don't know anything and don't understand, and he has to enlighten us.
Says the guy who uses other mobile devices besides a Windows Mobile handset.
It's just pure frustration to see MS not succeeding. Weak communication is, in my opinion also part of the anger. I respect Dona Sarkar and all the people at MS however... I wish they would be a bit more transparant when it came to Mobile. Vague, cryptic chit-chat to dodge the tough questions are getting tiresome. If you ask your doctor if you are ill I hope you don't run in a Dr. House kinda guy that brushes you off with a cynical remark haha. Maybe a bit far fetched but case in point: next time I won't be an early adopter.
Umm actually, it equates very well if you're only willing to give a company a few chances. Obviously the votes reflect you missed the point. If you're willing to throw more money at them and give them even more chances, then there's something wrong with you. Fool me once etc. Not everyone is getting hardware sent to them and money to burn on the premium devices y'know. Quite frankly, 3 strikes is being generous in the real world. I get that being Snarky and belitting readers is your way of..coping.
Well, for me it is 3 strikes and your out...I will never purchase another windows mobile phone device. thrice bitten thrice shy! I have to get a 950xl for 3d builder, but I am hoping that they will have something else. Or, I may take my sons kinect camera and use that. I just found out I can use the Kinect camera for it.
Is it me or articles started getting gloomy after the one saying MS should push W10M to most WP8.1 devices? Otherwise is was obvious W10M should have evolved more towards Windows 10 on ARM in the current update. That way it would be an evolution, not a refresh. Even if they want to go all in on a new mobile device category, they should still develop W10M seriously because smartphones will still have a dominant role in mobile years from now on all three platforms
Daniel. microsoft is loosing this battle . It is becoming a slow and painfull death mainly because they do not seem to comprehend what it is they are doing wrong..
I loved WP and was a user for 5 years and finally made the switch to iPhone and am extremely happy. My girlfriend also switched recently over to android and is also very happy. It's nice having all the apps, it's sad but WP is dead.
This isn't baseball.
Too late for windows mobile, they screwed that chance up by failing to release at same time as windows 10 and rhe endless delays. That ship has sailed. They will have to either settle with being jst a business device or come up with something new that is not a phone.
I'm gonna stick to Windows 10 on Mobile as long it gives me Live Tiles, I really hope they do it on whatever they're planning to introduce. Desktop UI has live tiles so the phone UI would definitely have it, at least when the device is used as a mobile.
Considering your analogy, MS is already on strike 3. The Kin was their most unsuccessful attempt in the Mobile market and didn't even last a year.
Kin was a foul ball
The first two of which, in baseball, are strikes.
Not really, as that pre-dates WP7.
Yes, it does predate WP7. It was still an attempt into the mobile market that was pulled before any one really knew about it. Not the same OS design, but still a redo.
What would that say about Linux?
Linux has users that must use it.. It has a guaranteed audience.. Developers.. There's no way I can use a windows machine for developing... Would go crazy.... Linux you can say had have the apps store since smartphones were not existing... Everything is right within reach without hustle.. Wp is a different case not a necessity commodity
Lol I use a Windows machine for developing and laugh at Linux users having to look up the Manual every time they have to do something. And please dont say "then they are newbies", because every software created by a different developer could have their own custom setup.
Manual ? Really? apt-get am done! How do you install Git again in your machine? And how do you use it? Linux(UNIX ie even MAC) is arguably the best OS for developers! Everything is there for you to grub! I understand you are developing for W so it's okay! Why do you think MS is so desperate to include LINUX tools in W10? B'se if i'm on LINUX am never developing for windows using their tools only JAVA for cross platform softwares AND that means many devs won't be using MS APIs! I'm using Windows machine for leisure and LINUX for work and plenty of other DEVS do so!
Haha ok, thanks for the heads up.
I think you misunderstood me. I know how to use Linux, I have done several projects in Linux and I use KaliLinux for Pentests. If you think you can install everything with apt-get, you just don't have enough experience or just haven't seen a lot of tools. Try installing and running a database (a production one) in Linux with an apt-get and without a manual. Microsoft is not desperate to include Linux, they are just doing it because it gives them an edge over the competition (which makes sense). And Java is not the only "cross-platform" language you can use. There is .NET Core (WCF), and JavaScript (i.e. NodeJS, ChakraCore), Scala (Play Framework). Even C++ is cross platform if you think about it. You code once and you just have to use the compiler for Windows/Linux and it runs (most of the time even better than Java). By the way, I am not developing for Windows. I mostly do cross-plattform software and am specialised in Server/Client architecture (also Mobile). Depending on the project requirements, I choose to work with Linux (when it should be cheap) or Windows (when it should be reliable and scale). I also have done Web-Projects, although it is not my core business. MacOS is comparable to Windows, if you look at the User Experience and efficiency.
Developers...Developers...Developers...Developers...Developers...Developers... If MS screams this again ...it will be a pefect RESET as well.
I feel microsft lack of suport for windows 10 mobile, with gestures not even making it to windows 10 after 2 years, restrictions in their edge desktop software, leting go of here maps sat nav and then ignoreing consumer phone so developers like paypal, ebay, myfitness paL all leave. I think this was all the thrid strike and your out. Yep microsft is making money with the cloud but without a proper mobile phone peand without proper developer suport, including google cause you tube is a thing you know and street view maps lol, people are not gona invest in a windows phone. Continum or not is doesnt mater, apps are apps. The bu=sinesses of now are being run a little by apple and android users in another 5-10 years itll be most if not all people who run businesses are apple or android and when that happens do you really think those bosses are gona invest in microsft cloud? i dont see it. The consumer certainly doesnt want too after th last terrible 2 years that feel like mobile abandonment. I just dont think microsft has anything left exept to try and slow the bleeding of their profits which will inevitably happen, and they only have themselvs to blame. Fancy scareing away the people that really want to use your products lol.
Yep, MS f'd my L900 and L830(w10m run like s on it). If they f'd my 950 again I am out.
I'm sure someone at MSFT has them hoodwinked and believing, "Hey! If we've done 2 already why not 200?!?!" Of course the upside of this is that we'll get 200 new bad music and video app name changes! If they reset, Groove is gone. You heard it hear first!
Zune music... I mean Xbox music... I mean Groove music... I mean...
ROFL :-)
If it runs the same UWP apps how they run on mobile now, then it's completely different and not really the same kind of reboot. That's the biggest issue with the reboots, the APIs and SDKs changed (for the better but drastically) each time.
I see it that way, others will say they have been abandoned. I will be replacing my phone in 2018 most likely, there is no W10M I could switch to that is announced for next year yet so I'm golden really. If they bring out something new in 2018 I was replacing my phone anyway. This only ever sucks for people who buy right before it goes away like those suckers who bought a Lumia 900 right before WP7 was done for. If I buy their new phone in 2018 or 2019 it will run all the UWP apps I already own, and I'll keep it 2-3 years
While I agree, there are still a bunch of non-UWP apps that I run on Windows 10 Mobile that are not (yet?) available on Windows 10. One of them used to be Waze, but now that Google finally killed that, there's really only a few apps that I use regularly that I would be sorry to see go (Shared Shopping List and ParentLove are two that I use every single day). If Microsoft would just allow these apps to run on Windows 10 (even if they're limited to running in a fixed-aspect-ratio window), that would make me completely happy and I'd be ready to move to a Windows 10 for ARM world on a phone.
If anybody can make those compatible on Windows 10 devices in general, i.e port the backwards compatibility from W10M to W10 in general then it's MS - They are the kings of legacy IMO, whether they will do it is anothers tory
Exactly, this is one piece that should be trivial to port over. Instead, they achieved the nearly impossible task of emulating the Xbox 360 on the Xbox One... and that performs *well*
Fixed aspect ratio window is what I was looking to for making those windows8 apps work in continuum
100% agree. IPad was easy to use at first because you could just use iPhone apps in their fixed aspect ratio. Then iPad specific apps started coming. Same needs to happen with Windows.
"One of them used to be Waze, but now that Google finally killed that," Waze is still available on my phone, and in the store. There are a few "fake" Waze apps in there, but the official one is still there also. Or did I misunderstand you?
the official one is only ever going to work by accident. Google killed off development for it the last i checked. so unless they decided to pick it back up, you're looking at a myfitnesspal scenario. eventually it won't work and there's nothing you can do about it. so you can rely on it for now and switch when it dies or find an alternative now.
Waze is still in the store, but it no longer works (it stopped working a few weeks ago). On my phone, it launches, but always starts with the initial sign up experience, but doesn't load any map or allow access to any menus. On my wife's phone, it doesn't even load and just crashes. I'm considering biting the bullet and buying a cheap Android tablet with GPS for the sole purpose of using Waze in my car. I've been using Microsoft's Maps app for the last few weeks and it still just doesn't give optimal routes, and estimated arrival times are way off (for a 12 minute drive, it estimates 17 minutes, and picks a route that just doesn't make sense at all, particularly based on traffic)... and that's just my commute, so how can I trust it in places I don't know?
You can't trust it. HereDrive got me lost last week. It took me out of my way to the other side of town. Had to do something I haven't done in a long time. Ask someone for directions.
The same thing happened to me once, twice and then I bought a Garmin with life updates and traffic information. It works great.
Update: After uninstalling and reinstalling Waze on my phone (and that of my spouse) once every couple of days since I wrote my comment above, this time it installed and worked again! Yay, and I didn't lose any of my favorites either. :-)
Waze still works for me. I use it every single day.
Was something announced that I missed???
Nope. Waze works fine, just not everything in it works. You cannot use the directions with street names, just basic voice directions. And the US English voices are missing some commands so you have to use the UK voices. I prefer Natalie, she sounds like a nice girl, while Carole sounds like a pushy complaining beyotch.
Not to mention, you won't be getting updates with Waze anymore either...all those new streets etc...won't be there!
WRONG! Maps are current since Waze doesn't use offline maps.
Yea it's not a reset like the previous ones.... Cutting of phones like the 930 is sorta like that already, but it has uwp access still soooo....
Yep, they can reboot hardware. They can reboot the OS. But they MUST leave the app model alone (beyond incremental improvements). The problem with the reboots was asking deveopers to make adjustments, or problems where new apps cant run on older devices.
I agree, a reboot now would not be at all like previous reboots. The decision to reboot a platform is not made in a vacuum. People seem to forget that platform resets are not done for their own sake, they are the side effect of changes in business strategy. Microsoft's business strategies are obviously going to evolve, possibly in major ways, but the concepts behind UWP are highly unlikely to be dropped from their strategy, so there isn't a business reason to make breaking API changes. I just don't see a platform reset coming for a while. Nor do I see a reset doing any good. "Our market share sucks" is not a business strategy, so by itself it is not a good reason to do another reset. Unless you can tell me what should be different after the reset, what's the point of the reset? And let's face it, the technical aspect of the platform isn't why Windows Mobile barely has a pulse, so technical change by itself won't fix it. Personally I think the reason W10M is failing is because a) it's not Android, and b) it's not iPhone. That's pretty much the whole story. Businesses don't want to support a third mobile platform for their apps, and consumers don't want to be on a different platform than their friends. Nobody but us fanboys care about Windows Mobile one little bit. I don't see a way around it. Hopefully someone at Microsoft a lot smarter than me will come up with some ways to make the platform fundamentally different from the competition, but until they do, there is no reason for another reset.
I had the same point in my mind.
If you look into it, UWP is the only reason reboot won't matter. People say UWP is crap, but because of this I use same apps on my desktop and mobile. And am very comfortable about having same experience everywhere.
If you notice, even when mobile builds aren't bringing new features, apps like store, OneNote, groove etc are always being updated, because UWP apps are available everywhere and SKU or device doesn't matter.
I'll do say that their focus is still not that good when it comes to adding new features in apps fast, but they get updated.
And as long as they're being updated, things are going forward.
no horizon.done .
To let u know well this information, 930 and 1520 works like leader and legends of MS products.
wut..
I think I understood it Since the world is flat he fell off the edge, thusly "no horizon. done." He wanted to tell us this information and happened to have a 930 and 1520 with him as he was falling to do this. He realized they were amazing devices and named them appropriately 930 = leader and 1520 = legend. Give kudos to Microsoft, the only phones to survive a fall off the edge of the world and bring us this insightful information!
lolol thanks for the laugh today
Read ur comments all here on this article , u will realize things above the lord and mouthy . God bless u hero of legends
Well, they can reset - but I'm done. Life's too short and I've moved on. Best of luck to them though.
Yes, because a phone totally ruins your life to the point where you can no longer enjoy it..... smdh
Yet here you are smdh'ing someone on a comments page because they don't like the OS anymore. Seems a bit hypocritical, lol
If you choose to see it that way, sure for what it's worth though, I don't care if he does not like the OS any more. That is totally fine and understandable. The part that I was referring to was the "Life's too short". I don't put much stock in a reboot of a phone OS (4-5 times? who's counting...) meaning that your life has somehow been shortened. Seriously it is just a phone. My point was, don't let a phone dictate your life. There is plenty more to do than worry about a phone reboot. I wish Long Syntax the best of luck on his next device!
dont let a phone dictate your life..... but phones nowadays are not just part of your social life, they are part of your work too. HP x3 is expensive but the performance and the app available on it are 1. bad 2. missing so... as a user who paid a lot of money for a phone... I need to have everything what I want and not just 1% of the whole cake otherwise I will buy a Nokia 3310 and enjoy it till I die..... no need for WM at all
Yes I agree with you so much. I don't give a crap what OS others want to use. W10M still working fine for me and I have no reason to change and no reason to replace my 950 anytime this year unless it breaks. I can't be the only person happy with the CU perf improvements for mobile. What's everybodies rush to get buggy RS3 fast ring builds on their 950s anyway
im jelly, with i was in your position but i need a good reliable you tube app, mainly cause im a cable cutter and use it alot, i also need a mobile pay and use androdi pay for everything, i also need a bank app somehting windows mobile has not got, even haveing a sp app from vodaphone made my life easyer instead of haveing to call them on the phone to find out info on a windows phone. I even love i can open my sliming world app and check the food i eat is ok, windows mobiel doesnt have that. Myfitness pal is something i use daily its fantastic, runstic on windows just doesnt cut it. I bought a lumia 950 and returned it, yeh greta specks buit in the hand it felt cheap to me, not at all solid like my lumia 930 was. I wish i could be satisfied from a windows mobile phoner but we lost the best mobile sat nav here maps cause micrsoft couldnt be bothered, we dont even have a eday app or a paypal app, things i use all the time. i love live tiles but theres just to much missing to even cosider a windows mobile phone would be unrealistic for me. I miss onedrive, i miss groove and cortana used to rule but still cant get her to work with plex as plex claims.
I think his point was life is too short to waste time on a dying mobile platform. If he can have better mobile experience with android/ios, he will. Regardless if it is just a phone, you can apply this to anything. There is no point to continue to waste time and money for things that are not successful.
Yes, that was my point. I still have my 950, but it really is more of a hobby to tinker with now. My main phone is now an iPhone 7 plus.
Same here. My Lumia 650 is a hobby phone that I continue to put the latest Insider Builds as long as Microsoft supports it. But my main phone became the Google Pixel last fall. When I used my 650 as my daily driver I thought I wasn't missing apps. But when Life360 left last spring and I got by using the web site but then I started losing more apps like Hilton. Now that I'm using apps on my Pixel that I didn't think I would ever use. It may be hard for me to come back to Windows 10 Mobile even with new hardware unless Microsoft somehow do what Amazon does with it Fire tablets and have access to the Google Play Store. But I don't see that happening.
Im sorry, but yes it affects how easy life is or not nowadays.
There are parking apps, health apps, learning apps, productivity apps, business apps... Many of which are not available on Windows so I either have ti find a much longer and complicated workaround to use those services, or I plainly CAN'T
For example, I either click on two buttons to park my car, or have to call a number, wait for the prompts, enter my credit card, etc. 15 seconds vs 1m30. Maybe you don't value your time as much as me, but when you gotta do this everyday, it amounts to a lot of time wasted.
Or you know perhaps I don't have that issue Azizelh And I really do feel sorry for people who are tethered to their phones and think that their life depends on it
But most people HERE do treat it like it would shorten their life if they left the cesspool called windows 10 mobile...thats his point!
People who keep reading these articles are always hoping to find a good reason to come back. Even if they deny it with their defense mechanism "moving on" comments.
You can chose: 1. Go for Microsoft and get 50% of what a modern phone can do or
2. Get Android/IOS and get 90% what a modem phone can do Nr. 1 might not ruin your life but it will make it less "smooth" and complicate a lot of stuff.
actaully it's more like go ms and get 20% of what a modern phone can do, or go android / IOS and get 100% of what a modern phone can do! there Ian, i fixed that for yoU!
iOS is a feature phone OS.
No Widgets and/or no Live Tiles = no Smartphone
Thus it does zero for me.
Who? Cares?
You seem to care enough to reply.
You're not the only one....i got tired of giving money to something with 3-4 years of life.
YES 😑😒😣☹☹☹
I don't even see how a reset of specifically mobile is possible with the OneCore and UWP and all that. Even if they call it something else there's no way around it has to run UWP.
Exactly, but all the butt hurt people will cry that they were abandoned lol. Even though with 3+ year old phones
Apple supports their devices for 5+ years. As of right now, Apple supports 20 unique devices (and that excludes cellular versions). So tell me, why should I purchase a $700-$1000 Microsoft mobile device in the future and have support for a couple years when I could spend that money much more wisely with Apple? Seriously, make the case why what Microsoft is doing is better than what Apple has done, which has made it the most profitable and the most valuable company on the planet.
They ust moved to 64 bit...
iPhone 5 is so slow...
almost 200,000 apps are not 64 bit compatible
It's a reset but since it's Apple so it's just gay....
Iphone 5 is faster than some of the nokias, 200,000 apps are not 64 bit, but they still work...Once MS decides to "reboot" everything gets shitcanned into oblivion. My mother in law is still using an iphone 4 and uses all of the popular apps still....can't do that with windows phone 7, since most none of the apps are available on it, and all of them have NO support anymore....NOT THE SAME AT ALL!
"NOT THE SAME AT ALL! "
I agree.
iOS is missing Live Tiles/Widgets
that's why it's only a feature phone.
Good point! But the problem could remain if W10arm runs bad on 810 snapdragon.
Yeah, even if they call it something else or it runs "CShell" or whatever, it'll still obviously use the UWP platform and the same store, so it won't exactly be like starting over from square one. I expect that they won't release any new devices until the Windows on ARM stuff that requires (at least) the Snapdragon 835 is ready, though (and that version will obviously not be made available to existing devices). They've still done a *much* better job of delivering updates for several years for Windows Phone/Mobile devices than pretty much any Android manufacturer does.
What choice do they have.
Exactly. Reset or resign are the only two choices. They definitely need a new category, an industry-changer, as they themselves have already stated.
I say don't reset or reboot. Just "return". Return to what made most people enjoy Windows Phone to begin with. Return to your roots! Return the beautiful 7.X roots of WP. Bring back the beauty 7.X had. Bring back all the Hubs! Panoramic Photo Hub. Me Tile. Rooms. Kids Corner! Groups (with working tiles) Bring back those great features! Bring back those very useful Nokia Apps! Bring back the Pivots exclusively. Those things worked! Even with limited advertising. Bring back all of those things and build upon that with newer shiny Features! Because their new vision has made WP worst off. That's my take. Don't reset! Don't reboot! Just Return... 7.X!
Yep, combine all 7.X features with 8.X features into one OS. that would have worked 10000 times better than this pathetic win10mobile. I am not saying it would have saved them completely, but for sure it would have been somehow different.
Hell yes
If you thought Microsoft had a difficult time attracting app developers to their mobile platform during the last couple of platform resets, yet another reset (which may be inevitable) is going to have them going with hat in hand to even the major app developers. Full Windows 10 on ARM on a six inch device, won't solve the lack of mobile specific apps. Besides, it'll take probably a few iterations of such a device to run well. Any first version of a Windows 10 on ARM phablet with phone, is probably going to be a hot mess and very, very niche in appeal.
Right. The only solution to the eternal app problem is to build phones and market them aggressively - no matter what the operating system is.
Well that is what the UWP was supposed to fix. Create an app that works on all the platforms, problem is it isn't working at this point.
Mostly because they are not pushing quality phones to the market like Nokia did. Most developers had to move somewhere because not only app rewriting for each WP and now UWP was as big problem as that killing WP market share just by Microsoft :/
It does not matter if the UWP apps run on the current and future OS.
When I needed to replace my Lumia 920, I really wanted to stay on Windows Phone, but I just couldn't bring myself to give them another another another chance... And if I were looking for a new phone, there's no way I'd buy a Windows Phone right now, simply because platform resets screwed me multiple times already. Stick with it, make it better, grow it.
If they "reset" or whatever you want to call it, with bringing full windows 10 to ARM devices... I'd be hesitant to come back. I dont have faith in UWP to begin with and with the way Microsoft is sooooo good at sucking and tripping over their own feet, I dont think they impress me anymore. They're incompetent at anything that's not Surface or Office it seems. My Zune, half a dozen windows phones, and Microsoft Band agree with me.
Pretty much. "It's just a small number of people" is a short-sighted argument. Ticking off your most loyal supporters who should buy a new device and show it to their friends is a fool's strategy. How much harder was it again to gain a customer over keeping one? How many people was it again that we tell about bad experiences over how many we'll tell about good experiences? Losing the fans and thinking you can easily replace them with somebody else based on discounting or cool ads or whatever is bound to fail.
You are 100% right..
Totally agree with you. Too bad Microsoft can't see this simple axiom.
Windows on ARM sounds like the only path forward. I don't think it will matter much if existing phones get updated to it by the time it is available. My phone is already not supported. I hope they say something about what is going on at BUILD, but I am not counting on it.
I see WoA being an answer to the iPad, not Android or iPhone. The tablet market outside of Apple is still really small, so there's plenty of room there. But even with Surface doing OK for itself, there hasn't been a rush of touch-enabled apps for Windows. The only saving grace for WoA may be the fact that it will run full DirectX. Maybe Microsoft is planning on putting some yet-unknown GPU into a phone-like device that will have clip-on controllers like the Switch, especailly since Microsoft has never had a mobile gaming device. I can only recall two Nokia phones and one Sony phone ever trying to accomplish a hybrid gaming/phone device.
Something tells me they wont even bother. (and shouldnt) They should spend mobile resources ironing out and building the best android/iOS apps available so anyone with those devices can have the best MS experience. The Galaxy 8 "MS edition" appears to be the start of this strategy and I'm all for that. Universal apps had been a failure and like one commenter stated, any "new" version would have to run them which still doesn't address the huge app gap situation that drives low adoption rates.
This would kill UWP in just a couple of years and Windows in the long run. It is a suicidal move as the article points out. On the other hand I am do not have very high opinion of Nadella so I am not sure he will not jump into the abyss with a smile.
thats why i save my money and buy the premium high end device so i wont HAVE to "upgrade" next year... i bought my 950xl in 2015, why is iOS and Android just now catching up?... noone thinks about that?
How are they just catching up? 950's were half assed attempts. W10M was buggy right from the beginning and remains that way. It can't even multitask properly. They STILL never fully addressed that issue.
Sorry but my S6 edge Samsung is a lot nicer, works a lot more reliably and is a lot more productive than my 950.
in what way is android and ios just catching up. My s7 edge has all the apps i want, it has a fingerprint scanner and apple pay actually works today. The only thing i remember about the 950xl was itas cheap look and feel, the main reason i sent my 950 back. Best phone ever was my lumia 930, i still have it today but a 950, i dont see it.
You wont just be burning current users, developers especially who have seen reset after reset would think more than twice about jumping on a Microsoft mobile platform thats been reset yet another time and we can see for ourselves the effect developer apathy can have.
As somone who bought Lumia 950XL 6 months ago I have no problem with a reset but as a developer if they force me to port applications I swear I will never publish anything on a Microsoft platform again. In fact I'd welcome the reset annoucement. It would mean that there will be new devices because currently I am scared that this might be the end. As the article point out it would be a suicide for their client efforts but I do believe the CEO of MS is stupid enough to commit suicide without realizing.
I have the 950 and thought it would be an upgrade from the 1020 but what I got was a down grade. Not 6 months with this phone a dozen problems appeared I am not sure if its the phone or the windows 10 OS but a reboot might be good if it gets rid of the constant crashing, overheating, The lag of apps and when you text it takes at least 30 seconds for the text to catch up to the key stroke. Sent the first phone in for warranty and got the second phone with same issues...
Weird. I've had my 950 for a year without such issues
After the latest update, my Nokia Lumia 735 reports that it cannot read the microSD card again. This is a basic hardware function and yet Microsoft cannot get this fixed after so many updates. Microsoft should just kill off Windows Mobile and stop cheating the public with their defective products. PS: The thought has just occured to me that maybe Microsoft is actually deliberately sabotaging Nokia phones to kill it off. The scary thing is that where Microsoft is concerned, such a ridiculous notion is something I cannot dismiss!
My 735 is reading its MicroSD Card, just fine. Might be an issue with the card (I have an HP Tablet that is Card-Finicky).
I've had the same problem on my L650. It's just when I restart the phone. It shows a message that there is something wrong with the card and it takes two or three minutes for the card to show up. It's a good SD card to, UHS class U3. My wife has a L650 too and the same card but no problem.
Don't dismiss that thought. I'm convinced that's what's happening. Satya doesn't want to have any device around that will remind him of Nokia. In the meantime I see that my old Nokoa Communicator is selling for hundreds of dollars on eBay. Good quality hardware lasts forever.
MS totally wants to separate and forget Nokia. That $7 billion dollar acquistion was a failure. Nokia sold their name and now makes Android devices.
Isn't it pretty obvious that Microsoft will drop support for the non-recent ARM CPUs in order to have "full Windows" everywhere. Sure, it means the Lumias and, sadly, the recent Alcatel phone will not be forever supported, but with full Windows on ARM we'll buy those phone-like devices anyway. Say we get support for another 12 months or so, maybe more. We won't get any more cool features, it won't be full Windows (and never was), but we'll be able to use all the UWP apps that don't depend on full Windows (if there'll be any - or maybe that's one of the limitations they hope to get rid of...?) before we need to get new phones anyway. And then the phone category might be dead anyways, possibly *because* portable phone-like devices with Windows are so much more powerful, mobile, and useful. Or maybe I'm just over-the-top optimistic.
Microsoft need to answer these questions in order to continue in the mobile space:
1-What comes after live tiles?
2-How to embed Windows Mobile experience inside the full version of Windows, so that 2 become 1 (like tablet mode)?
3-how to close the app gap?
1: Live tiles is twhat make Windows Mobile what it is. MS must keep it. 2: MS is hoping they can fool us to believe WIndows on ARM with cellular capabilities is that device. 3: MS keeps changing the platform. You cannot win any race when every couple of years you go back to the starting line. Developers will not develop for it, unless MS develops it for them.
Windows phones are a failure. Microsoft needs to distance themselves from that UI and strategy. It has proven to be toxic to consumers.
Its not the UI that is toxic, its the reliability issues to some degree but most importantly the enormous app problem or lack of them.
The app gap is just a symptom of poor sales. If people liked them, they would buy them and the ecosystem would build. Sales have always been terrible, even back in 2011 when Android also had an app gap. Microsoft needs something new. Windows phones have proven to be a commercial failure for whatever reason. That horse has been beat.
The app gap was there before the poor sales. It's Google and their scorch earth way of doing business.
Poor Microsoft, they just couldn't create their own services to rival Google's. /s It is real tough when you put yourself in a position where you are dependent on a competitor to create services for your platform. You certainly cannot blame Google for the crummy products available from Microsoft in those days. Google certainly didn't leave themselves reliant on Microsoft.
So now it's Google's fault that MS is a bunch of incompetents? Remember Ballmer's "Scroogle campaign"? I do and for sure Google does.
The problem is not the UI. Actualy it is what differenciates the platform what needs to be reviewed is the strategy. They need to stop dropping good phones that are costly to start over and make us pay more for a phone running a Beta OS. They desperately need to work on the code beneath that UI. I am sure that if W10 had the speed and response Windows Phone 8.1 had it wouldn't have failed.
i agree with tiles makes windows unfortunatly all the people i know would rather stick with icons so im guessing a windows icon phone would be more atractive to them even if its a terrible way to go.
No does not matter. Will not make a difference at all. Will IBM return to the pc market? Will Elvis have a new hit?
Would it be considered a reset if Microsoft just added ARM and cellular data to Win10? When Windows 10 Cloud works on ARM and can use eSIMs that would make it a mobile OS irrespective of what the OEM puts in the device and remove the need for a separate mobile OS.
I agree. I dont think this is a reset as much as it is a maturation of ARM so windows can fully run on it. Which means win32 store apps really. Which could be a nice thing for consumers and devs.
How many time you fanboys and MS need to understand users want mobile apps on their pocket device?? touch friendly apps, not win32 apps...keep up with this thinking of yours, it sure has paid off until now :))
I actually had something like this go through my mind after reading this article. Something like an x86 emulation dock (for new hardware) and/or cloud portal service (for legacy equipment, in a similar fashion to Office Online) may be a way to have both. Just a few thoughts there.
In my opinion, if it involves outdating current handsets, yes. I would just move on to something else. They cannot get their act together. I still like the platform, but I will not accept another half baked system while they try to figure out what the next big thing is.
So I am probably an outlier here, but I was never upset by any of the platform reboots. I was there for every single one of them and was never bothered in the least by it. I simply picked up the next hardware that supported where Microsoft was going and continued loving it every step of the way. Those who did get upset by it I could never really understand. Technology does not stand still, it is constantly moving and sometimes moves to better things are necessary. To Microsoft, please reboot. Give it another try with Windows on ARM or whatever it is going to be. Continuum really is the way to go so that your whole device (desktop, laptop, tablet, phone) is all in one in a small easy to carry size. I think the trick is battery life.
You are an outlier...
Thanks! :) Outlier, confirmed.
No I'm with you. I didnt get the deal either. People were sooooo mad. But I guess I just need to understand that people want to hold onto their phones and keep recieving software updates forever and ever, and never upgrade their hardware
Forget about software updates....Do they have the replacement of Lumia phones???? Do they have their own mobile devices????? Answer is no....A big Nooooo
Probably because you didn't have to rewrite app aor think as a manager of a brand is it worth to again throw thousands of USD for supporting platform which wasn't pushed even by MS.
Nice attack there Saeglopur89. You are right I did not have to rewrite an app or think as a manager of a brand. I never made those claims either. And trust me, I totally understand that, but I was not referring to that. I was referring to the outrage by general consumers who own the devices who threw big fits about it. So next time try doing some reading comprehension and don't just assume that you know everything or that you know what I was talking about when you clearly did not. Have a wonderful day! :)
I think I have only seven NT core based Windows phones from 2012 to this year.
Is it time to buy another one? Hmmm... maybe during the summer holidays...? I'll buy something...
I can handle a reset, I haven't updated my 830 due to the uncertainty and dead silence from msft. at some point I will need to upgrade. Under the current circumstances it would be android. If I new something was coming then I will try to hold out. Now if I had just purchased a 950xl or hp elite and those devices get left behind then goodbye.
Zac, you shouldn't drunk post.
The ONLY way it would work is IF Microsoft is "ALL IN" meaning ADVERTISE<ADVERTISE< ADVERTISE...If there is not more talk then Windows 10 for Desktop, and Surface Pro products had on TV then forget it.. I loved windows phone BUT would never go back unless the store is flooded with apps and Phones store know about the product, trained on it and PUSH IT.. anything less is a failure and I wont be back till all those things are happening...They lost the Good Faith I and many others had.. key word is HAD. Thanks Dave
All in at this point would need to be something like any user who was had a windows phone handset on their account in the past gets $400 towards the new device. It seriously need to be a grand gesture like that to get people back in.
Nokia did all that perfectly ...so MS killed its mobile department :/ Couldn't be worse.
I'm waiting - anxiously waiting - for a smartphone-like device that I can dock with tablet, laptop, or desktop hardware and seamlessly, powerfully drive each of those experiences. I've been wanting this for years. Android OEMs and Microsoft have come close, but have not been able to produce this dream convergence device for me. Even Ubuntu was on the right track for a while, but they have now abandoned the project. Why is this so hard to do in 2017? Is it because tech companies are afraid it would cannibalize sales of their other products? That they would suddenly stop selling as many tablets, laptops, and desktops if they released a single device that can do the job of all of them? The first company to make this level of convergence happen will get my money. I believe Microsoft is the closest - they have the right idea with Continuum - but I really have to wonder why a company with the resources and intellectual capital of Microsoft can't get this done. It's almost like they're doing it on purpose.
Keep the flame burning, and I will wait.
Nutella pissed out the flame long ago nokia5110
It wouldn't be any different than buying an android phone and then having to buy a new phone a year and half later because your current phone can't update to the newest version of android. Another Windows Phone reset would be the same except at least you know you'll be able to use that phone for three or four years with updates.
I agree and that goes for iphone too.
Yes, but iSheep don't bite the feeding hand like WinDogs.
And remember:
Droids are not what you are looking for (if you're a Jedi-Master).
I would like to ask you guys, what apps are looking for. Because I am seeing some of you saying that Windows Phone don't have any or more apps.
It's only really Americans that complain. I am American but I'm not living there at the moment and here we do have bank apps, great apps for transportation and weather, apps for the government and it services. Apps will be changing soon anyways. Super apps are coming soon and some are all ready here. This Facebook app thing I don't really understand. One I don't use Facebook but my wife does and she just uses the mobile version. She has no problem with it at all.
Windows 10 on ARM. Runs on everything from Snap Dragon 820+ (sorry older phones, I have lots of them too) . MS makes (and markets) their own normal phones while waiting for Surface Phone in 2020. Make ROMS for phones like Xiaomi and other 2nd tier Android phones (which many are very nice) to let the enthusiasts / innovative businesses a larger range of devices.
Rom for only China specific......Is it joke???? Or China giving them so much money that they are bound to do that?????? Mi4 lte variant is only capable for windows 10 room.....What about 3g variant???? No no and no.....
Not China specific, that was just an example.
...and other "2nd tier Android phones ", how did you get just China out of that? I see why many people don't even bother commenting......
I wouldn't have a problem with a reset. In fact, I upgrade my phones every two years, so I wouldn't mind if they reset the entire OS every two years like clockwork.
So all of that effort to one Windows etc would be for nothing. We should be able to make smooth transitions between devices without beeing left behind ony because ours device is 2-3 years old and there was no alternative for it since Nokia Lumias, not crappy plastic MS Lumias.
The fact that MS can't get their crap together and produce a device worth buying is a whole different discussion.
Reset can also mean your old apps (purchased or free) cannot be run under the new OS, unless MS ensures backward compatibility.
Reset to what? Windows 10 is Windows 10. Mobile has to match the PC version. I guess I'm not following to point of this post. Windows would be better off developing W10 Mobile adding features and such instead of an entire rewrite, and as I said, it has to match what the PC is doing, it can't survive as it's own thing. The UWP is contingent upon it being interchangable.
Not really, think it the opposite way for a second, what if Microsoft build a Mobile OS that would be the center of its ecosystem that can run Android and iOS apps, and desktop PC's become a satellite of that OS, so the desktop is not seen as the center of Microsoft universe anymore, instead the desktop is a secondary OS but not the main where all the developer effort will be put in. If you ask me if I would be saying this in 2010 I would be crucified, but in 2017 I see less and less interest in PC's every year and much more interest in smartphones.
Interesting post, but a truly terrible concept.
The problem is Microsoft lost the smart phone race. With that device you would still need devs to populate the store with their apps. Google and Apple arent going to put their app stores on the device. And Microsoft, rightly I think, is looking ahead to the day when we laugh and remember the good old times when we had a thing called a smart phone in our pocket :).
A smartphone is a computer. Plain and simple. It has exactly same parts as a desktop computer.
There's zero evidence that Microsoft would be going that route. The course they are on is to be device agnostic, Window should be a unified through all form factors. So in this most likely scenario, what exactly would be rebooted?
What if Microsoft unshackled themselves from Windows and built a platform specifically for mobile from the ground up? I think it may be a mistake clinging to Windows, they really need something new that fits into the future. When does Windows just become a burden that prevents Microsoft from creating the future?
In May education event , I hope we get news on Microsoft's leaders on why when Joe Belfiore was on temporary leave, nobody spoke about Mobile strategy, keeping Windows Mobile consumers and fans on the dark for so much time deserves a explanation. I'm hoping Microsoft puts all their efforts on resurrecting a Mobile strategy, something that can get rid of the mistakes of the past and start a new era with probably a new platform (thinking Android fork backed up by Microsoft's cloud services, or another OS that can run iOS applications with a partnership with Apple Store so that Microsoft's new OS can run inside the Apple ecosystem) what is not fair is that fans and Windows consumers wait for 1 more year to hear about the next step for Mobile strategy. The smarphone is more alive than ever , its time for Microsoft to put all their attention into Mobile in 2017 and the rest of the 2010-2020 decade.
You can reset it all you want but unless there is a strong dev support, you are not going to achieve anything. We only have a few top devs left and I don't think they will stick around much longer. You can try to reset, but you have to do it when you know you have proper hardware and dev support lined up.
The (now) 2nd most popular OS in the world has no choice but to have a presence on mobile. Period. Microsoft knows this. The fact that they are abandoning support on older phones means they are working on something else that they believe will not run well on these older handsets and/or they are only honoring new handsets because of legalize / support agreements. This tells me that W10M as we know it today is on its' way out. But again, they have no choice but to have a presence on mobile going forward.
wasn't WM10 supposed to be the unifiying OS. I thought that this was the Universal app BS we were fed to believe that this is the ONE. I am not surprised if MS does rehash and mobile OS. Again, your article does not factor in the revamps of 8 to 8.1 and 8.1 to WM10. So basically, since 2010, we had 4 refreshes. And then MS blames consumers, developers and OEMs for not helping the platform. I will make it simple to MS, I have a 950, will use it for another year or so till I get my hands on cometitor products. Once I invest in those, the lifecycle of those phones are 2-3 years. If MS is still in the market with a product by then, I might consider it. But till then, I will move on. MS will have to earn my business.
No way! At least not a reset than impacts developers or features. If they can do a transparent reset without sacrificing apps or features, that's fine. One of the problems of Windows Phone/Windows 10 Mobile is that they have spent so much time constantly resetting development that they are years behind in features. They may finally have arrived at a good and stable development platform with UWP, but that's 3 years too late.
Yes, it is a bad idea. Devs were discouraged by previous two restarts. They will not bother with another one.
A platform reset would have to come with world class hardware, like beating Samsung Galaxy 8 by a fair margin and subsidized to $500 levels to counter the bad blood and track record of throwing out WP7 users, than WP8, than 10, than abandoning hardware... We remember this stuff. Just like we see that terrible Avastar WiFi come back over and over again in Surface. You want to be world class you have to back it up Microsoft, way too much half assing it in the past to recover IMHO.
If we want to know which direction to go - why don't those (in the media) - just look and see what phones the Microsoft Employees are using? When the execs stop using windows - SO SHOULD WE?.... So, Zac - what phones are being used by M$ Execs and Managers?
iphones
In the current market - no - we're in a two mobileOS world right now - just like Windows and MacOS ruled the desktop/laptop space for the 90s and 2000s. There was no room for a third competitor (ok, Linux maybe, but it's never been a mainstream solution). Then came the lightweight ChromeOS and it redefined the budget/education market. Google has carved a nice little space out for itself - and Apple and Microsoft are scrambling to come up with an answer to it. The next Windows mobile can't try to compete with Android and iOS - it needs to form a new market. Chromebooks were dismissed as not being "real computers" for their first few years of existence. Now they are the go-to device for most schools.
Maybe the go-to device in parts of the US, Chromebook are nowhere near as popular in schools in many other parts of the world. There may be reasonably cheap options but not all chromebooks are budget either, I've seen them up to £1,000 in the UK in the past. Not that MS are thinking outside the US that much right now so I can forgive normal people in the US for forgetting the rest of the world exists when companies like MS forget it at times
America is slowly becoming a one OS world. Apple just keeps on gaining.
Rightfully so, IOS is a polished, fast, stable OS on awesome hardware, with every app, accessory and wearable available to you. Why should it not keep gaining. Unless you like subpar software, chinsy hardware, and not having all the nice technology available to you...
Who's left to alienate? They can ride the coattails of Windows 10 with developers - even if their mobile ambitions fail, as they did with Windows Mobile 7 and 8, at least if they have convergence with Windows 10 and they quit on everyone again, the developers can still sell their apps to tablet/laptop/PC users. So if they can achieve true convergence, then developers likely would not be too hesitant. Consumers, on the other hand? I know that I have left Windows Phone for the forseeable future. I've spent too much money on devices which they have effectively abandoned. Not a way to build good will...
I for one will stick with Microsoft through whatever happens. I believe in their vision and understand firsthand how hard it is to launch a successful product. The app gap is not as bad as people say, or at least for me, and IMHO, if you really want Windows to succeed, you could help by developing third-party clients and telling everyone you know about their plight. We don't need fair-weather fans, we need people who are willing to help out
The next step would be to sell a kidney and donate the money to MS, right? Right?
Yeah me too, I don't really need apps. What do I have a woman for?
Not really a reset. They would just be adding the mobile shell to Windows 10. I wouldn't be surprised if Windows 10 Cloud on small devices gained in popularity as well.
Maybe they will do that. It is going to be at least a year at this point though. It will be interesting to see if they actually do that or if it gets killed in the meantime. It isn't a good sign that they are already delaying it.
To be honest at this point as a consumer I don't care. I love the Windows phone and used it for a while but after my L925 there wasn't a new device to upgrade. 950 and 950XL came waaay later and they didn't sell it in my country but when they finally brought it they were already a generation behind. So I bought an iPhone 7. (not the cleverest decision on my part but it is way better than WP. If I have to carry an extra phone alongside with WP it means I don't need the WP. I want them to succeed but this time I won't be buying the first new thing they launch.
I think they'll need to do some sort of reboot, but as others have noted if MS kills off all current devices and forces migration to something completely new/different they'll alienate users and devs alike. I could understand a complete reboot from WM6 to WP7 - they needed to do that. Going from WP7 to WP8 was a bit annoying, especially when they pushed devices like the Lumia 900 shortly before WP8 was announced and didn't allow upgrades from it because they'd be hard/tricky. If they do something similar again and kill off all existing devices, even the high-end ones, I don't see it going well for MS. There are few users who will just jump on the next thing if they do that. Most will likely jump to Android or iOS. I like the overall look/feel of WP/WM, though not as crazy about the hamburger menus introduced somewhat recently. I think that lost something of what made WP unique and didn't accomplish what they were hoping with apps coming over. I do appreciate that it can make that porting easier, though. I'm in the "wait and see" state right now. I did get an Alcatel Idol unlocked recently to replace my 830 and thought that was a pretty reasonable upgrade - significantly cheaper than the HP offering and the main thing I miss is the wireless charging. No idea how long it will be supported, but it will at least be in the current plan for as long as that lasts.
"and the main thing I miss is the wireless charging" I think it's the features like Wireless Charging, glance sreeen (which MS should open for all OEM's while there may still be any) and the like that singled Nokia / Lumia out from the rest and led to others having a harder time comepting. When Wharton Brooks talked about a phone for the fans, i thought surely some of those sorts fo features would be present. Ah well.
Lumia 900 - The smartphone beta test is over 😂 was one of the most ironic things in tech ever lol
Microsoft has literally nothing to lose at this point. Windows Phone / 10 Mobile is dead, the vast majority of users have left already and the ones remaining are either: 1 - Completely indiferent towards the platform and so wouldn't be affected (and if they are, they'll be fine with moving to something else) 2 - Diehard fanboys. And I am absolutely sure that a major corporation like Microsoft couldn't care less for the cries of anger of a very very small number of fanboys (because even within the fanboys, probably half wouldn't care and would embrace the new platform eagerly too). I highly doubt that their 5th attempt at a mobile OS would work out BUT as I said, they have nothing to lose by trying (well, except maybe a couple of million dollars). However, maybe a hiatus wouldn't be bad. Windows 10 on ARM for phones isn't ready at all. If they went ahead and rushed to released it, it would flop immediately. I think it'd be wiser to officially kill W10M (to shut up the people still in denial) and announce that they're working on something new BUT will not release it until they know it's ready (kinda like the Surface Team does). Then, during the hiatus, they could work with the developers to lay the ground and THEN bring the devices.
I agree with your last paragraph, therefore, any Windows 10 on ARM mobile, pocketable, device that is meant as a consumer product for the masses, is likely *at least* five years out. I guess we'll see, in 2022.
Holy crap dude! I was sooooooo hoping to come to yet another "MS is doing something wrong" (while raking in billions) article and have someone tell me why I still use Windows Phone! You're a God-send, man. No really... you are! Keep being you!
I'm thinking they need to leverage Xamarin to make UWP truly universal, while fully fleshing out the IOS bridge. At the moment the IOS bridge doesn't support swift and is still lacking quite a bit(it's gotten much better in the last few months). There's basically nothing that's going to spur UWP development other than users and right now Desktop/Xbox/Mobile aren't enough. People care about 3 or 4 things when it comes to their phones - Does it have the apps i want to run? Does the phone match my expectations for price/value? Does the phone look good? Is the phone confusing? We haven't really had 1 ever and we haven't had 3 for a long time. At this point, 4 is basically dead and gone. It's far different than anything people are used to at this point. People are legitimately scared of live tiles (according to my sales dept) and brands don't really like them. Icons suck, but it's what people are used to at this point. Honestly though, Microsoft doesn't really have to care about their consumer side anymore. They make far more money on services and Azure than they will make from desktop or phone licenses.
"Icons suck, but it's what people are used to at this point." Well...Microsoft is the responsible for that when push comes to shove. If you look at an Android screen, it looks exactly like a shrunken version of Windows. The only difference is that the apps don't open in windows (though some phones allow windowed mode). All that Android did was pick up the Windows experience and put it on a phone in a better way Microsoft ever did.
Except for the jump from WM6.5 to WP7 where no apps from the previous version ran on the new, the reboots have been smoother since then. It may have left owners of the older version in the dust, but the new version was still able to run apps from the older version. On my HTC 8X, WP8 I could download apps designed for WP7 from the store and today on W10M I can use WP8/8.1 apps from the store. If MS goes with Windows on ARM, they'll need to keep a "Rosetta" kind of layer to keep using older apps as long as we don't have them all on the new version. Aren't new Snapdragon especially made with emulation/virtualization built-in?
Yes, platform reset please...
We need to reset CEO first. We need a CEO who has passion, heart and fully believe in W10 Mobile. But we just have a Cloud guy now.
I keep waiting for these types of comments to really fix the problem.
Windows 10 Mobile is dead and anything resembling a Windows phone will fail miserably. How long do you think Microsoft should beat that dead horse?
It boils down to this: A provider in mobile does NOT have to be the market leader to make a difference in how things happen. BlackBerry was huge back in the day, and it still pushed needs of email security, work, etc. It's how it works. Furthermore, Microsoft WAS in a major mobile world with enterprise and still is on desktop/laptop, so marketing with just these folks will help build its base. As the person above mentioned, Microsoft has nothing to lose at this point by trying again. I say go for it :) Because I love Windows phone!
I thought success in mobile would be something like 10% share - enough to be sustainable. And that most of that would be outside the US. If they reset, it will be the same again. They won't beat Android or iPhone easily but get to double figures, and you have something sstainable and worthwhile.
If there will be a new reboot I'm switching to Android without blinking
Lol i love these comments, you realize that Android phones are updated even less, correct?
Every Android device is updated directly by Google for several years. Android version doesn't really matter.
My mother bought her Motorola G first generation 4 months before my lumia 930 launched. Since then she has the latest and greatest apps although it got stuck to 5.1 lollipop. Me on the other hand I have w10m but on the apps side I can't say the same thing. Waiting for the Xiaomi Mi6 if there will be a reboot.
This is a moot point because you don't care about those updates. You can run most of today's apps in Playstore on either Android 7.0 or 4.4 just fine. And most savvy people use custom launchers on Android so the look of the new version is again non-important.
They aren't making phones so they have abandoned WM! Google is making phones for Android so there's no excuse. Secondly, if MS won't upgrade phones with the specs to run the reset system then they have no shot
I think you forgot to mention one very important point Zac. This time the reset should not hurt the developers too much because Windows 10 on ARM will support the existing Windows 10 apps
Even the Windows 10 app store is quite lacking.
Except the Windows Store, such as it is now, is pretty much a wasteland.
Other than fans, users or developers doesn't need a Phone OS besides Android and iOS.
Lets get one thing straight... It would upset a lot more people than only who are using Windows Phones now. Because in the past 2 years, the users have gone down BECAUSE microsoft didn't do anything! You cannot say that they are gonna abandon WP just because it has a low userbase because it was not low when Microsoft stoped trying! Now it has low userbase because Microsoft stoped trying when WPs were going up! When Windows Phone was running on 8.1, it was growing up, becoming more better each time, becoming more famous. The real reason is Microsoft stoped trying!
If Microsoft restarts again, that means Microsoft will only be happy if they get lot of users and that will not happen for a long time.
Even looking at the PC, there are many who don't like Windows 10. Many hate the automatic updates, forcefully wasting internet. But for others its really useful with features like Game Mode, night light. Why cant they just make it optional! Instead of doing this they can just open source everything and let the developers give us features through apps. Thats why Android has been successful, they give developers lots of power. Now from "Personal Computer in all homes" its becoming "Microsoft Computer in all homes". They are taking too much control. Honesty if Microsoft keeps going like this, a new competitor to Universal Apps would appear and take over the market.
Reset wont work without the Apps, doesnt matter waht they do with the OS or hardware or camera or some 3d touch stuff. You dont have the apps the other platforms have at the same time and at the same or similar quality, no chance. It is that simple.
Did iPhone have apps when it was released? Did Android?
Actually, they did - at least apps that mattered at the time. Oh I know the iPhone didn't have an App Store at first, but it had really important built in apps at launch. It had iTunes which meant it supported all that content that the large number of iPod users had. It was the phone that could replace your iPod. And it also had awesome (for the time) apps to access popular Google services such as maps and YouTube. Android launched with a store, I think. As I remember, it got off to a slow start, but it naturally had 1st party Google apps including an even more capable maps app. In the US at least it also had major support and advertising push ("Droid") from Verizon to try to counter AT&T's success with their iPhone exclusive. If Microsoft could get Google apps, maybe iTunes, and a carrier willing to go all in on marketing it, maybe they'd have a chance with a reset. :)
Sounds like you are saying Microsoft didn't have decent services for Windows phone and were dependent on competitors for software? Just another example of poor strategy and poor software that prevented adoption and development of an ecosystem.
No but they do now, millions of them and people will not switch to a windows phone with far fewer apps (and falling) when IOS and Android in particular are already giving people what they want. Whatever replaces the phone in years to come, that will be MS's opportunity to claw back the consumers they lost but a reset and yet another windows based phone isn't going to do it. Only fans with high hopes and a stubborn refusal to see the wood rather than the trees think otherwise.
Whoa, did @bleached just sort of defend a possible Windows Phone move? :-)
The only way Microsoft is going to hit the numbers they are looking for in the "number of devices running Windows 10" race is to have a robust mobile strategy. No more dipping their metaphorical toe in the mobile pond to see if the water feels safe. They have to jump in with both feet and start making some big waves. If they are willing to do that, in whatever form, they have a shot. If not they might as well stand on the shore and watch the others. My 950XL may be my last Windows Phone. I sincerely hope not. It up to you, Microsoft.
With enterprise adoption now starting and the positive press I'm pretty sure you'll see a sudden increase in those numbers.
Whatever Microsoft do, they need to 1) Bring out or get someone else to bring out flagship hardware 2) Make the price attractive 3) Make sure people will be able to use the apps and TV / movies they've already bought. They would next, need to either market the phones like Apple - only flagships, refreshed annually, or bring out a Surface type mobile device as a 'proof of concept' and let the OEM's have a go - with free Windows 10 cloud of course (current style when in mobile mode, full screen, full Windows 10 when connected to a dock / screen).
Reset won't matter at this point. Unless they come out with something that blows everyone away, which I can't see Microsoft pulling off, they have ruined their name in the Smartphone category.
It's actually funny that they are considering this when the creators update feels so polished on Mobile now. Instead of abandoning their work every few years, maybe they should follow what their competitors though you know. Actually stay on a platform for a long time, allowing it to mature. Honestly, I'm surprised they haven't actually tried to attempt to advertise mobile yet. It's actually pretty good now. (on the 950 XL at least)
Agree, its solid and a pleasure to use.
It needs to be killed because there is no more reason to fragment the Windows Ecosystem. The end goal was always to converge everything and Windows Mobile is a hinderence to that. Windows 10 on ARM is the key to this goal. Win10M needs to die so Windows 10 on Mobile can live.
Stupid idea. Any reset will disappoint the few last fans, but not acquire massively new users as MS is simply not sexy. The idea of reset is not so bad, but applied to the team, creating the mobile strategy.
It they reset and release something sexy, then they have a chance. Windows isn't sexy.
Yes. They should do what apple does, release it to the biggest audiance and disable hardware features that does not work.
I don't think a reset will happen, at least not in the same way as before, the reason for this is UWP which is always evolving. However, current devices will never see Windows 10 on ARM since we already know it's being worked on for the SD835 which no current devices have, it doesn't matter if it was demoed on an SD820 as they are not targeting that SoC and even if they were only the Elite x3 has the 820 anyway. By the time MS is ready to ship all these devices are going to be ancient and not worth any effort to upgrade them so it's not another platform reset but rather a hardware reset. This is a much better thing to happen since it means UWP apps won't be deprecated, but I doubt WP8 apps will work so unless developers get on board and port their old phone apps to UWP then there's going to be a huge drop in the app store which I'm sure will upset a few people.
"frequently leaving behind current users in the process" Yes who then probably move to another platform and never come back to MS again. MS never seem to learn just how much resets upset people!
windows 8 was great but lacked apps, windows 10 not much of an improvement some say worse but less apps, another reset who knows but needs apps as a smart phone with no apps is just a phone
I update my technology roughly every few years anyway. My allegiance is to innovators. As long as Microsoft continues to be that company, I'll stick with them. I just need an upgrade path. What mobile device am I buying when my 950XL EOL happens? If they make me leave Windows, I can't promise that I'll be back. If Windows 10 ARM is the future of Mobile, then so be it. But it would be nice to paint a picture that says that, or even implies that a little more strongly. They don't exactly have a track record for sticking with things. Surface being an exception. So unless they release whatever their idea of a Mobile computing platform is under the Surface brand, I'll remain cautious. Edit: On a side note, this is why I try to only buy UWP that have Mobile AND PC. At least I can use them on my Surface. I anticipate the end of W10M. But where I go from there is up to Microsoft.
OS itself is in the best shape ever, it's just about time for restart. Surface Phone, cough cough.
I'm all for a "reset", but current devices (current, i.e 650, 950, Elite, etc) should have upgrade options. Whether a formal "reset" it's needed though?? Really, or surely(?), this is simply the transition across to the improved kernel, bringing with it in-built cshell and arm emulation functionality. If composable shell is true to it's word (well, its potential... but, we all know how far short of target MS typically ends up) it could allow OEMs further opportunity to differentiate their devices with customized interfaces etc. Windows 10 isn't meant to be a stationary beast, it is an evolution of a continually upgrading OS.
CShell probably needs a reboot, just don't abandon the old phones,UWP apps are working just fine on these devices.
Yes reboot but this time only with 2 devices. One for daily use, one super cracked out for the xtreme nerds. This way the experience would be far more uniform.
I started in the cellular industry way back with AMPS bag phones in 96' up until 2007 when the smartphone became the new reality. I have gravitated away from having the "latest and greatest", and have used WP since 7, 8 and now 10. I finally bought a Lumia 950 on Swappa for $140. I am happy with the current Production Release stability and the offering of apps. I use Monument for Facebook because as we all know, the FB app is trash. I use Instagram, WhatsApp and all the usual MS apps for everyday use. Though I'd like more capabilities, I am fine with the current state for now, but want to see the platform start making ground, again. But I totally get the frustration but have learned to work within the confines myself. For me, it's the security of the OS that matters most.
What Microsoft needs to reset is their commitment to their products. Since the beginning of the Ballmer era, they've been bipolar about virtually every product: Stage 1: "We're going to rule the world with this!" Stage 2: Lots of fanfare, other product groups browbeaten into integrating the new product with their stack whether it makes sense or not Stage 3: Growth & adoption. Early adopters and deeply technical users often frustrated by unfinished parts and lackluster documentation. Stage 4: Coasting. New versions mean new features, but not a lot of fixes or finishing stuff that's already there. Documentation is via blogs. No roadmap, no developer evangelist support, and marketing is seen sneaking out the back. Stage 5: Early feelings of abandonment. It's like when you look up from your beer at 2am and realize everyone else left the bar hours ago. Microsoft keeps promising new great things. The latest version is almost all patches and maybe a half-hearted silly new feature. Stage 6: The bartender yells "Last Call" and Micrsoft announces the product is end-of-lifed. You look at all the time, effort, and resources you've invested into the product or framework and you swear that you'll never get suckered again. And this time, you mean it. Amazon Web Services has *hundreds* of services, and they have NEVER dropped any of them. Stuff that developers built on the first early services can still depend on that service being there. Microsoft simply does not have the patience to grow an ecosystem - if something isn't the next SharePoint and earning a billion dollars by year two, they lose interest and wander away. It's at the point now where I look at the Azure Framework ( no formal documentation, no roadmap, patch schedule = "when we feel like it") and I have to wonder who's going to fall for the okeydoke this time around. Who's going to invest thousands of dollars into integrating with a framework that might get forgotten when IOT becomes the hawt nu thing in four years and all the "Cloud" services get deprecated? Microsoft can relaunch the Windows Phone. And they might find out what a market looks like when everyone there finally realizes "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you."
they are alredy death but customers won't trust them ever again in mobile devices.
I would say: it's not "bad" or "good". It's the only possible way for MS.
Maybe not exactly "reset" but some "push" to this platform is really necessary.
Am I the only one excited for another reboot? Soon(tm)
No, you're not.
I have had a number of people tell me that they would switch or at least consider switching to Windows mobile if it had the apps that they deem necessary for their daily lives. With that said, I don't know that it would be worth Microsoft's time and resources to reboot. If their goal is to have one unified OS code base then I don't know how they would be able to make a new mobile os that is that different. I figure if anything happens it will be ending mobile builds and moving the team and resources to some other device category as was mentioned in the article or putting them into the PC/tablet team. As for me I will continue to use Windows mobile as it is my preference. I have tried the other options and just cannot get to a point of ease and usability that I find satisfactory. I as an individual nor as a collective user group (that is extremely small in market share) can change the economics of this matter. So until they cut off mobile and/or my current device dies then I'll continue using Windows mobile. I think the boat has been missed for Microsoft in the mobile arena. At least the mobile arena as it currently stands. They may be able to see some monumental shift in the industry that no one else is seeing. But I doubt it. But, regardless, all the weeping and gnashing of teeth on this site will not change the direction that Microsoft intends to go. Thus ends my unsolicited opinion. Enjoy.
I'd rather just see something like what Blackberry did. How about a android powered windows phone with a Windows 10 launcher or newer launcher UI. Comes installed with the Microsoft app store like Samsung phones that come with samsungs galaxy app store. Lol at this point it wouldn't be that bad if google and Microsoft came together. It could change the game.
Would it not make more sense to have it run windows 10 with Android running as a Virtual Machine, instant access to all the apps in both ecosystems. I honestly think though at this point, they have lost the home consumer and should focus on business class handsets. Maybe they could offer their is on handsets for free or as part of an enterprise license agreement to oems.
I think they should go for it. What do they have to lose? Sure they'll upset their less than 1% of the market but those who are left are the Microsoft faithful and the majority of them will follow. I'm looking forward to it actually. I'm excited to see what this Surface mobile device has in store for us.
Android phones aren't supported endlessly either and eventually they are all left behind. They don't call it a reset/ reboot though. MS approach is not good for developers, all two of them. They keep changing the game for them and it's just not worth the effort to try to stay up to date with latest changes. It's not just new apis, like with a new OS version it usually is.
Android phones last a good 5 years before they are left behind. Google just stopped supporting Gingerbread!
seems a desperate stupid enough fanboy down voted you for telling the truth. This tells everything about today's windows phone comunity...
You have to address the reason people don't get windows phone and that's the app gap. Universal app is a good idea in principal but of all the apps out there how many do you need or would be handy to work on PC, console, HoloLens and phone? Many applications on phone are replacements for functions available on their web based counterpart. I dont need a banking app on my pc as I'll use the web site. Why would I want a banking app to work on a console where everyone would see.
Games on a phone are based on in accurate finger presses on a small screen. Why would that translate well to a mouse and keyboard pc or a console.
MS has the opportunity for android apps to migrate to WP very very easily which could have encouraged more developers to follow the simple process and get more on the platform, but it went the opposite direction.
They still have the iOS bridge to migrate iOS apps and iOS gets all the apps just as much as Android so the lack of the Android bridge is not the problem.
please kill it. i had enough of torture. i will use L950XL for some more time.
Although it's a low number of current WP users, there is a wider public perception that MS have no sticking power and keep failing and relaunching.
It doesn't matter whether or not they reset Windows Phone at this point in time. Microsoft already wrote off $7.6 billion from the Nokia acquisition and mostly moved on. Their stock price doubled over the past 3 years. They're doing fine, and Windows-based smartphones aren't figuring into their success. At the end of the day, they're a publicly-traded company that is accountable to its shareholders.
Their stock did not double...check your facts before talking crap. It went from ~42 to 64-65 as it is now. With such blind fanboys no wonder MS is able to sell any crap they want and fools still continue to buy it
I think at this point with how limited the number of users and phones available, it doesn't really matter. I think what matters most is what the reset brings. If it is a legit upgrade then its woth it, if not, then it just kind of sucks for us last few remaining fans. That said either way most of us will upgrade to the new hardware and what not if MS seems serious about their mobile efforts.
You know what they say! Fourth time the charm!
1. Dona said, "Microsoft is a FIRM believer in ARM and Cellular". 2. RS3 mobile release name says, "Windows 10 for ARM based phone devices" 1 + 2 = RS3 for mobile would be Windows 10 on ARM with cellular. The only question is, will MS still keep feature differences between PC and Phone version? (like no Inkworkspace, MyPeople etc on phone) If yes, then seriously **c* Microsoft!
windows 10 arm + cellular means surface tablets etc with LTE and available to make calls....NOT a phone thats is truly mobile.
If you can truly send and receive calls
and
the tablet folds to a phone size
then
it's both a phone and a tablet = a new device category?
Note:
ust speculating like everyone else is - feel free to object - even with great emotions
I really don t understand microsoft politics about mobile. There is no new devices and they continue to work on window mobile 10.
Someone have an answer ?
Alcatel Idol 4S & HP Elite x3
Yes it is a bad idea cause they did it 4 times now...and things only got worse, not better. I can tell you why they will fail if they try another time, there is no reason the people should trust this plattform
- not the developers
- not the consumers For the developers it is a nightmare to invest in windows phone, why? Cause the whole app development changes every ~2 years...wtf, rly WTF. How should an app ecosystem mature under this conditions? And of course, there is no market you can reach with developing for windows...app usage on the "big" windows is a joke, mobile was interesting but is entirely gone. The consumers, there was commitment for the windows phones in several regions of the earth like parts of asia (india), south america and of course europe...they all saw what happens if ms is not successfull in the US, you will be left behind, your hard earned money will be burned in an amazing speed no other plattform offer this. Many ppl in this regions, especially the enthusiasts, recommended windows phones and i can say, personally i dont feel good to give my friends wrong promises based on ms promises just to see half a year later...plattform stopped/cut/device left behind, everything is dead. I wont do this ever, recommend a ms product which has not a critical market penetration all over the world There is nothing which will change my view on this, i only can recommend ms products after they are successfull but i think many wont adapt ms products ever again before they are successfull...
Meanwhile the other systems going to major while ms tries the next reboot and the next reboot and after each reboot something good from the past ist entirely gone in the "new everything is better" world with the excuse "give it time to mature a bit" In a long term, ms as a plattform supplier for private customers will be dead and therefor the private people will bring those systems to the business - while ms is not rly commited to be plattform supplier since nadella they are indeed better advised to go as an app/cloud company with some specials (like hololens, xbox)
If they 'reset' and leave us all out in the cold with our phones... would I stay? I probably will be done with the entire smartphone environment. I've seen my wief's android and it literally sucks to me. Apple? Nope, never!! Back to a flipper for me, i think. If they did that, I would have is do I trust them to come back with something and actually support it? History says maybe, but only for a couple of years. Will they appreciate the users? I think that would require a massive change in their way of thinking and probably a change up top. Bill Gates appreciated us. Balmer moved more towards a corporate attitude towards us. Nadella doesn't appear to give a crap about users.
Only if they pour money behind it advertise it, have the apps, go head-to-head with Apple and Samsung. It is so late now, they will have to pull out the big guns. I sure have lost faith in it, they are also loosing the consumer market, phone, tablet market etc, due I believe to phone failure.
It is very simple what Microsoft are doing. They a not resetting a Mobile OS as they did in the past. This time they are giving the customer a single OS that will run on the 1.5B PC's out there as well as everything else from a phone type device to a dozen plus core workstation. It will not matter if it is,ARM or Intel based. An UWP app will just run on everything. Let's just hope the debs can see the potential. With Windows 10 finally being a single OS is been a hard gestation period from the beginnings with Windows 8.0. Let's hope for good things ahead.
Hope with Ms????? What a joke!!!!!!! When they will finish with their work there will be no developer interested.......It's just big promises that's all.......What about user opinion what about enthusiast????? Ms: We are looking for bigger scenario ( in real they just don't care what you feel about it). Till they come in with their execution hats of to those people who are still hoping....They have great courage...... P.S: Don't stay just move on....Ms don't care about you (the real truth)
I get that and hope I get to seen that in my lifetime - but how long does it take? They've been talking about it for years.
"It is very simple what Microsoft are doing. They a not resetting a Mobile OS as they did in the past." i read similar stuff about uwp...oh and i read similar stuff about windows 8/windows phone 8 the next reset is never the same as before...alright
Maybe they should truly reset it this time. The last couple resets haven't addressed the issues at all. They have all basically been the same platform with the same strategy. Maybe it is time for something completely new and innovative. Until that happens, they will never be successful. Windows phones have failed and it is time for something new.
If they can't the most popular apps people use day one of a new reset it would be dead in the water.
No!!! defenitely not another os reboot it will hurt further the platform... not only they sould support W10M but also windows 8.1 users... they are the majority out there. i bought 950XL a year ago. They have to show some respect to people's money because many of them are working hard to make them. Microsoft need to be back to the hardware game! if they have no phones they will loose market share further. microsoft stores are selling android phones because they have nothing to sell anymore...they also have to bring back the nokia design.... the quality once WP had!!! microsoft spend millions to aquire linkedin!!! if they put all theese money to devleopers we could have a proper UWP facebook app, a snapchat app and many many more and the platfrom wiil start again to attract users...
Honestly, I think that's the direction they're already going. We already know that Windows 10 Cloud is going to be unveiled in May. Any bets that this is what will run on the ultra mobile PC with telephony? It'll be interesting to see if that's what my Lumia 950 ends up running later on down the road. We all know that the insider build between mobile and PC have seperated to allow work on unifying the core between them. My thoughts are that Cloud is what will have the unified core for phones, tablets, and other ultra portable devices. I could be wrong though... Microsoft has also invested a lot of time into developing their own apps in both the Android and Apple ecosystems. Only time will tell, and I'm definitely facinated with the direction they've been taking.
Microsoft doesn't need a new platform for mobile. They already have one with Windows 10 and CSHELL. There is no need for a separate platform. Windows 10 runs on anything.
A reset wouldn't be a bad idea at all, would be nice if Microsoft offered the loyal fans a trade in for their old devices, might ease the tension a bit. Regardless I will buy whatever comes next as I don't use overrated apps like Snapchat and facebook.
Another reboot would just send further signals not to trust MS. If it really would fix it this time, and they can stay on course, and give the support to legacy devices, then a reboot would work. But this was the same promise Joe B made with WP8, and they screwed over early WP8 users who were under that assumption that theyre devices wouldn't be left again, but they were left behind official (sure you can do insider...). So to me going through this too many times, another reboot is just another thing to verify that I shouldn't go to MS because they'll just reboot again down the road. I bring this up all the time, Apple is where it is if you want consistency and dependency. My mom's old 4s stil got iOS 9, iPhone 5S still have iOS 10, and those devices at the time of their latest updates were more than 4 years old! My Lumia 900 was obselete within months, my 920 within 4 years, etc.
Reset to what? Windows 11?, Android? iOS? - they have to match the desktop. The OS is not the issue, thelack of support from Microsoft is. Mobile is lost in its current form due to lack of apps and marketing. The only thing that can (and will) happen is a mobile device runnning full fat desktop apps or at least tweaked for mobile (UWP) but for everything. PC in your pocket is the only thing MS has over Apple. Samsung will do what MS does as will Dell , HP and others.
Typically Microsoft screws things up 3 times
before they start to get things right.
Mobile hardware is getting ever more powerful and memory is becoming plentyfully available (on par with notebooks). Linux and/or Android may very well run in a container on Windows-on-ARM and x86. Why bother with W10M and W10M apps nobody cares to write - Microsoft may think. W10M may well survive as kind of a Windows "feature phone".
.
Microsoft in Mobile Sucks Bad !!!! I have spend alot of money for Microsoft Mobile and each one device was and still is Worst than the other. Now I have 8 Devices for Testing Purpose Specific (950XL,950,930,735,650,640,550,535). My 950XL that i have for Daily use Crash 4-5 Times per Day. Microsoft Doesnt Have Any Hope Cause He Doesnt Learn from Mistakes. Microsoft Repeats the same Mistakes Since 2004. Now I try to gather some Money so to buy an iPhone SE or 7 and I will not gonna spend any time with Microsoft Mobile. 2 Years I Report the same Crash Issues , Slow Responsiveness and the GAP with Applications and Games and we are still back 3-4 Years from Android and iOS. They must add NOW !!! at least the Google Play Store so to Download and install Applications and Games that miss in Windows Store..
Guess you are running Preview on your 950. A fresh reinstall might help to get rid of tue crashes. Better spend ur money on a SnapDragon 835 device in Nov/Dec/Jan. .
I don't think he is that dumb to throw his money to the garbage again by buying another Microcrap windows mobile phone.
microsoft just need a communications/phone os that has a clear seperation from its desktop os, onecore is awesome and all, mobile can use continuum to be a desktop, multi purpose and all that jazz, but as much as it is nice to have a multi-purpose swiss-army knife, its always better to chop down a tree with an axe.
But what is a reset? This time it wount matter, and we wount be burned. The UWP application platform is still going to remain pretty much the same as far as I can tell, and the app incompatibility was the biggest issues going from 7 to 8 and 8 to 10. I dont care if my 950XL does not get the new unknown mobile version of the OS. I'll buy the new one if it's a propper device. For others just keeping app support should be enough. So go on. Do it right this time. Give us a flagship stright away. And citrix with continuum support.
I really like my IDOL 4S I just miss the camera of my Lumia and HTC 8 Windows version
The trouble is the app creators will only support the latest OS. My wife purchased a Lumia 530 only 9 months ago and already cannot receive the latest version of Facebook and Messenger has been discontinued. Really poor app system, which people don't like creating for, because Microsoft keep changing the goal for them. Even HSBC, Ebay, PayPal, SnapChat and lots more don't even support Windows phone 10. I really do hope your correct and apps would still get support.
Jeez, this thread is less than two hours old with 172 comments already. Not enough user passion though for MS to give a hoot and tell us what the plan is.
You'd almost wonder if the WC editors weren't trolling us to get clicks and create drama. Not that I'd fault them for it, as it's rather entertaining for us, especially since Windows news has been rather dull of late. The Creator's Update was completely boring.
Go to mspoweruser
Dreaming is great but dreaming with Ms????? Nah..... They have a ball less CEO......Who has no gutts to tell you that they failed with their strategy for mobile.....I mean come one......Do you people still believe on that CEO???? Sorry man but he clearly don't have any vision about windows 10 mobile......Athe time you are talking about that leap from windows mobile 6.5 to 7 or from windows 7 to 8 Windows 8-8.1.....They had a hardware line up called Lumia....What about now????? No Lumia line up..... I mean come on....... Company like Google replaced their Nexus series with pixel and stop making Nexus devices but what about Microsoft?????They closed Lumia line up without a replacement......People are not fool......They know what is good and what's not
Yes they should. Anyone who buys into this should be rewarded with a free lifetime membership of SMOA (Sado Masochistic order of America).
Bring back the old WinMo 6.5 days!
These are those days.... You may be wanting to ask for the 3.0-5.0 days.
actaully he wanted a 'pocket pc' back. i mean it was way closer to look and fuctionality with pc than current win10m.
I agree 100%, I still have my HTC HD2 and boy is it SO MUCH MORE ADVANCED that W10M.
Of course Microsoft can re-boot it's mobile offer. However at this point they have burnt their most loyal customers and platform evangelists. Years after the reviewers stopped looking at Windowsphones, the carriers stopped stocking Windowsphones and even buying one was a struggle the Windowsphone community was advocating on behalf of the platform. Despite Microsoft mis-steps people overlooked the clumsey non-entity of marketing. In recent years Microsoft itself rarely showed their staff using their mobile phones. Microsoft failed to communicate any future strategy. Much of today's Windowsphone news is speculation bolstered by guesswork and a vague Microsoft conversation about "mobile devices". Do I think the person committed to Microsoft products and services will buy into some unspecified mobile device that may or may not run Windows 10 Mobile? Its impossible to know. However as the burned users of Lumia devices see them "deprecated" they can put them in the box with their Microsoft Band, Windows RT tablet and Zune. Consumer products aren't really Microsoft's thing. They will need to get a lot better before a reboot makes sense.
I have been using Ms products ( Currently 3 win10 pcs, one Imac and 3 windows phones here at the house!) Because of all of the FAKE news about ms and a mobile/surface etc phone that NO ONE KNOWS ANY THING FOR SURE, but the bunny and the informant all know for sure..............................If I remember correctly 2015 it was going to happen (new phone) then came 2016 and no phone, and now 2017 and "they" are now saying will 2018 and or 2019...........there will be a new phone......I just read that apple willl be having a new phone late 2017 and or early 2018............with all the bells and whistles any one will ever need! Either Apple or Ms, which ever comes first, I will be purchasing 3 new phone from the Them Bert In Oklahoma
As long as UWP apps transfer I'd be ok with it. I don't like buying the same thing twice. I want the Nokia morph concept phone to be a reality. If MS can make a pocket-able foldable Windows 10 device that can dock on your desk to a faster cpu/gpu combo and harddrive for more advanced things, then you can truly have one device that runs everything with a few extra peripherals to go with it.
I have no problem with another reboot... You guys better pray for Cshell.... That would be awesome!
Never seen Windows Central's community rip on Microsoft this hard before, to have this much mistrust in them. It is pretty incredible. But such are the missteps by Microsoft. The biggest one though, that has to be the radio silence. And if they have spoken up, it has just pushed the community further away, as the news lately has all been negative. I genuinely don't know what the reboot will achieve. What will Windows on Arm on a mobile device achieve? And if that doesn't work then what? Reset? Do we have that faith in Microsoft when it comes to mobiles? I don't. Microsoft burned loyal consumers, people won't forget easily.
Stick with the plan.
Make some advertisement off the product.
Don't have a do over every time, like the next thing wil work.
Stand by the product.
Give it time to grow.
Windows mobile is a good os.
Make it a Great os. Cross my heart and my finger's
Several issues today that existed when the Lumia 800 was about: Lack of apps (thinking UK here): Banking apps are withdrawing support (Halifax just pulled theirs), Mobile networks (EE) have pulled support, Gambling apps never set foot on WP (Sky Vegas, Casino, any decent gambling apps for games and not the odd betting app?), Games are severely behind rivals (Mario Run, Simpsons Tapped Out), Basic social apps (Snapchat), News apps (BBC), Google apps (YouTube, Maps, Earth). Apps are out of date: Facebook, Twitter, Sky News, Majority of botched imports for other platforms seemed to be a one off with no further support too. Minimal and naff advertising - I get that they don't want to make a loss - but surely in business you should invest to see a return not just spend your piddly WP profit hoping for one? Update cycles - Too many do nothing updates - Where are the twice a year huge updates to mobile with new or improved features? Focus on PC - The focus on UWP has been to benefit PC over mobile at the cost of mobile and now seems be heading towards a universal experience between PC and iOS. Communication with existing supporters - We helped build the base. Not exactly nice to see news that windows mobile is dead every other week - again. Market share focus - I remember when that used to be a key focus - not just something to try and cover up with a bull "market share doesn't matter - we are aiming for W10 coverage across all devices". rant over
What is there left to reset? Skin Android too use live tiles; pack in all of the good MS Android Apps; and hire Huawei or HTC to build you a flagship phone and be done with it.
What's Windows 10 Mobile (that's sarcasm)? My Lumia 640 still thinks Windows 8 is the current version! I actually like Windows phone, but apparently Microsoft does not!
Join the insider program
PS - commit to pass through Android updates REGARDLESS of carrier crap - then you would have a HERO flagship phone.
Microsoft has fooled around way too long with W10M. As always in the history of Windows Phone they are too late. Too late to make an impact.
MS will keep W10M on the sidelines and keep it alive somehow, but it won't ever be the center of any serious attention of MS.
They'll have something "category-defining" and this will not have anything to do with W10M.
.
As long as the apps continue to work, I don't see what the issue is with a "reboot." It's just a major software update that isn't compatible with your phone. That's... fairly typical of phones? Besides, you can't expect full Windows 10 on ARM to run on a Snapdragon 210, even in a phone-factor. It'll probably take new and powerful ARM chips, which seem to be in short supply atm.
Yes, please do something and please stop opting out devices. I like the whole Windows 10 format but can't keep being pushed to buy new phones. If you're trying to save the whole program do it. Something unified plus affordable can seduce huge markets. Once Microsoft develops a unified product it could be properly advertised and win.
To the author, are you really willing to go this way? because it's simple plain answer, It's Bad to giveup on people that promoted your OS&devices, baught your OS&Devices, at participated to improve your product, yes another reboot is bad...
yes rebooting again would be suicide. lets be honest here every time windows mobile is rebooted features and settings people use disapear, some of them have reapeared but took as long as 11 months and even take 2 years to come back. even now skype dopesnt have full video and audio control like the old software still can. Edge took nearly 12 months before it was acceptable yet edge cant open new tabs to home default page and drag and drop tabs is terrible compared to ie and the rest of the browsers. Also rebooting windows mobile 7 upset windows 7 users, windows 8.1 reboot upset windows 8 users, and we still dont have the speaker option from gestures mobile and thats way after 2 years, my photo album intergration with facebook is gone. Wireless payments doesnt exist in my shops in uk for windows mobile but apple pay and android do, another reboot sets this back even more that the very big distance it is now. In my opinion the rebooted windows 10 is the reason the app situation is geting worst. Here maps being let go followed by popular apps like paypal, myfitnesspal all gone, developers have left, hell i dont even have a ebay app on windows 10, windows 10 mobile is looking dire and thats cause of microsft last stratagy. Another reboot will kill windows for me, to be fail i cant see windows mobile working now anyway. I think microsft needs to change its name and its people casue its reputation amonst every person i know is terrible. I cant even stick up for them at this stage. mistakes after mistakes after mistakes. Customers sould be treated well and thats something micorsft has no clue in doing now. I want a all in windows eco but that needs to have a phone, it just does and windows phone not haveiong google apps is a killer straight off but microsfts other restrictions like edge new tabs not opening to the users default home page, forceing windows 10 on people(and i love windows 10 desktop mostly, just not edge and skype.) and removing or tryiung to remove free onedrive storage has left a very bitter tast in joe publics mouth and where i am from its prety big. All microsft needed to do was release a proper cucessor to the 930 every year, just 2 sizes, a phone and a phablet, that would have prevented windows 10 from shrinking so drasticly and maybe kept developers from leaving so fast. Still the slow pace they make their software useful with all the things you used 3,4,5,6,7 years ago and the complete ignoreing of their own gestures app for windows 10 speakerphone option, add that to their lack of a groove app for ipad(ios is not ipad software), and a groove app that doesnt reat the sd card of 2016s best selling mobile the s7 edge shows that microsft just isnt a capable company at this time, not from a software and pace perspective. Not to me anyway. I want them to be but honestly im just waitng for android or apple to suport proper pc gaming and im gone and its not cause of windows its cause of microsft lack of progresion.
Who would they be resetting for? Few in this current generation of phone users is ever going to give MS another look as far as mobile. That ship has sailed.
as dreams go by... why not using the qualcom chip, run windows 10 and Android apps? You want the Facebook's Android, fine, you prefer MS outlook, fine...I beleive that the running of W10 on a chip that also run Android is genius,
I have both W10 phone and S7 Edge. I find the Android UI pretty out of date compared to W10. (My opinion, no flames, please.)
jerome, download the launcher 10 launcher for your s7 edge. You will have the w10 UI with the android app bank all in one sweet fast unit! no need for the windows 10 device.
Un fit Microsoft you shameless creature cutting off Lumia 930... Mindless freak
Microsoft has all the right pieces to make a compelling phone. Ditch the lame tiles and embrace android and bolt on their own launcher, with other value adds running on top of Microsoft designed hardware. the battle is over -- its apparent no one is going to come running to Windows mobile when android and IOS have such a commanding lead.
Another reset would lose most of the last, desperate fans. Even worse, the remaining developers would leave; who would want to start over *again* with a new framework! The only reset that would make sense would be one that shows them to latch into an existing, rich app market, like running Android apps.
The "framework"really shouldn't be any different.
100% would be the worse thing. IMHO - Windows 10 is the best mobile OS of them all. It wipes the floor with iOS and Android. The single only thing against it is app support. If MS had the same app support iOS and Android has then they would not be so smug as they are now. The OS itself is fine - like Windows 10 on tablet/desktop/laptop it is getting refinements, fixes and updates.
This is obvious, but how does Microsoft fix this problem? Getting Win32 support for ARM based products won't make the device surge. Developers are moving to apps like UWA where they don't need to have a registry, and other coding I'm not familiar with. I really want to see them to push the envelope. Don't challenge Google or Apple, but market the phone/OS, build a new device or two, really sell it; change how their strategy is with getting developers to develop apps for UWA. Oh and really spell out the plans. Maybe not the entire hand, but give the fans and developers a sneak peak and a bone.
Would a reset be a bad idea? That is a retorical question, as there is absolutely nothing to loose in the mobile space. No marketshare and pissed off loyal fans by leaving them in the dark. Time to get some new friends. It is the only option
There are so much working against Windows Phone... I don't see how a reset will help. How can they get developers onboard? I don't know a good answer for this. I've never used a Windows Phone, but I would love to see it to succeed. It's great to options. Right now both iOS and Android annoy me in different ways.
Agreed. I'd like to see Windows, and possibly others, get into the game and succeed, knock Android's (Google's) reign - I really don't like Google/Android, Apple I'm just bored with. Microsoft really isn't the little guy, but in this case, they really haven't flexed their muscles either.
I'm fine with it although id prefer if all current devices were fully supported until the next gen device supercedes it
I've said it before, but Microsoft needs to clearly communicate their plans. It's fine to keep the specifics quiet so that competition doesn't get a leg up, but at least tell your biggest fans and the developer community where you're headed. Every few months, we get an intentionally vague promise from someone high up that they are "committed" to "mobile", but it's only now obvious that they're replacing W10M with W10 on ARM. The platform isn't dead, it's making an evolutionary jump between generations again, but the old devices will continue to work and UWP apps will continue to work on both versions. If they would have just told us that in the first place, perhaps more apps would have come out and less apps would have been discontinued. The corporate side of things may not need the apps as much, but if Microsoft ever hopes to have a chance in the consumer world they need to draw the developers making the apps. Your average Joe on the street won't consider any version of Windows on their next mobile device if it won't run their favorite apps because the non-techies have been brainwashed by Apple and Google to think they need apps for everything. The Xbox has a great lineup of games, but the mobile games are pretty much exclusive to iOS and Android. If played correctly, the "big boy" games available through Xbox Play Anywhere would be a killer feature on W10 for ARM, but like the app situation the popular mobile games like Pokemon Go and Clash of Clans are sorely missing from the W10 platform. Hopefully the //build conference will bring good news on these fronts in a few weeks.
To be fair...I think the market has forced them into another reset...
Alternative headline: We know Windows 10 Mobile is dead, fancy another Windows OS?
And I'd tell them, no, thank you, I'm not a *********.
Don't mind, but at least be open and honest about it
I don't know any phone that remains feature-full after 2-3 years anyway, so I'm not sure why this community feels like they're being personally slapped in the fave every refresh. Only real difference is on iOS and Android it tends to be most noticeable on an app-by-app basis. Even then there's always something the last round of phones, that use those OSes, don't get features.
If they drop my 950 and 950xl i'm done with them, and i'm a well known MS supporter.
At this point it doesn't matter.
What would another reset make better? Here is the reality: I started to carry around a Galaxy along with my Lumia 950 XL. Why? To get through the day, I need my car sharing apps. Most are not even available on WP. The ones that are available haven't received updates and new features in a century. They barely work. I hate to say it, but using the same (and all other apps) apps on the Galaxy is a difference like day and night. Using a Galaxy is so much fun, and such a relief. It's like: Wow, somebody cared!!! How neat! Every other day updates! And the updates make things actually better (not worse!) No fixing, workarounds, bugs, and being taken for a ride by Microsoft for years (feels like a decade, or longer). Microsoft is committed to shareholder value, not WM customer satisfaction. They slowly but surely handed WM users over to Android. Some still fail to get the hidden message. "If you can't beat them, join them", very old rule in business. Yeah, why not another reset. Who would have thought that developing a mobile OS would be so difficult.
To me its pretty obvious that's what they are doing.
MS will create a full blown hand-held computer w/phone capabilities. This shift in technology presentation, will win. Just like their innovation with the Surface, which is far superior to the iPad.
Ony worth it if they fully commit. This means marketing help to get the word out and sing the praises of whatever they do, plus serious work to get developers on board, and make the platform iable with first party apps. Whatever microsoft does, something new, kill it, or whatever, they need to follow up with committment and show it with actions. Committment is not a promise to "support" the platform but no mention of promoting it. Commitment is not a promise to "make devices if 3rd party companies largey don't, and then not deliver new deivces. Commitment is not a promise to make the best experionce on windows and then let 1st party apps get features and updates first on other platforms. Commitment is not staying silent when the press, influencers, and heads of development teams feel like you no longer care about the platform. So yes, a good tie to reset, but real commitment with actions to back up the idea that mobile IS important would go a long way to giving things a chance of reaching a resulting in something sustainable for the long term. Windows Phone 7 had some good marketing efforts, Windows 8/8.1 less so and Windows 10 there's barely been a word on the benefits of using a Windows powered mobile device. Microsoft have to bring that back in a big way if they are serious. I'd argue that Developer focus has been (really since the launch of Windows 8) has been attracting Web developers some how, any how, whatever it takes, and it's ultimately succeded somewhat in getting web develpoers to write websites on ASP.Net, though some web apps came of that which don't take full advantage of the features. Microsoft have had some steady developer efforts on UWP but the big events have all been Xamarin and cloud, which further harms windows as it puts the focus on creating apps for iOS and Android. Client application developers on windows (and i'm tempted to inlcude WPF and anyone who writes client applications for any kind of windows), really need to see Microsoft is behind that as a part of the long term future and that we wil still have jobs in 5 years creating new software that (vs transitioning to android/iOS or web developers) Having said that, I rate the changes of showing real commitment I've decribed at about 1%, but here's hoping. For me thier head is still in the clouds and "Mobile first cloud first" has become "Cloud first mobile first" which has beocme "Cloud first client whenever, er yeah, including mobile sometime when you get around to your Xamarin app".
Here is my reset ... ;-) I upgraded to iPhone7 Plus yesterday. My first iphone ever...and I have been buying cell phones since prior year 2000, from blackbery, symbian OS, android to Windows OS. The 950XL and version 10 has been a total deal breaker. Sorry Microsoft ... maybe later.
This Stockholm syndrome experienced WinPho Fan will take anything other than giving up. What I find hard to believe is that the next phone will be in 2018. Like Lucy with the football, I will hope for a mobile device on May 2nd.
Jimmy, You are going to be very dissapointed. Nothing mobile coming on may 2nd. maybe may 2nd of 2050.
i use windows 10 on my desktop i almost use zero aps from the store. i have everithing i want from my web browser.. skype desktop app is superrior to the store app... the pc world is much different ..... for gaming i use steam. thats why i believe that another os reboot with full windows 10 on phone will not atract developers. windows mobile needs the store, and the store needs windows mobile.... tablets are a different story. compare the ecosystem of ios and android to that of full windows 10. full windows 10 is crafted for desktop- laptop use, not for phones! they have to support win10mobile!!!
exactly right vagelis, I have 2 UWP apps downloaded, a small photo editor and the weather network app. The photo editor is going bye bye when I receive my real photo and video editing software soon. An app does not have the power for desktop usage, but it works amazing in the mobile space....where windows fails because none of the 1st party apps are available in windows moible, just 3rd party half baked ****....
It doesn't even matter anymore.
man this article was so wishy washy and hard to figure out... which is... exactly how i feel about the current situation! lumia 929 (icon)/verizon user here. don't want to get a new device but will still wait for new gear from MS or from 3rd party running MS OS (whatever win10 variation is around by then). my main reason to not get a new device is because what is the point? the newer hardware has had very little to offer in the 'it's going to change my life' category. wincentral, keep writing articles speculating what MS will do next because i love to read them (seriously)!
It will only be good if there is enough reasons to let both developers and custemers believe the next reset is the last reset, and it will not get abandoned in whatever case in the next 10 years. It's not only an technical issue or strategy issue now, it's more of a trust issue if that happens.
App gap is no doubt a problem, but it isn't unique to Windows 10. IOS was the first one dominant in the app market, early Android handsets had a disadvantage, and some will argue Android is still at a disadvantage to iOS. So where has Windows failed compared to Android? Despite the app gap Android was able to increase in market share and reach a point now where they have much higher market share, and almost equal access to apps. Did Android do something different to gain market share and popularity? Or have we reached a point where apps are far more important than they used to be and no one can bring a new OS to the table?
Android was just the poor man's version of the iPhone. People that couldn't afford an iPhone back then saw the home screen of a cheap android phone and thought, wow, that looks just like iOS. "bring a new os to the table". What do you think MS was trying back in 2010? Something completely different than the other two was what they brought. But apparently most people in the world don't like the live tile home screen which is far more useful than the other two. And despite MS butchering the rest of the os I still like it better than the other two.
Relax guys... Too many articles about Windows Phone the last 2-3 weeks... Not only here but everywhere... I know clicks are the point but calm down a bit...
Good article. I would recommend not a complete reset though, at least for 808+ snapdragon phones, which should at most drop some new features! but seriously ... windows mobile is quickly becoming a matter of legends and science fiction ☺ As windows fans we are going crazy with all these speculations. Never a clear word by MS but just a never ending smell of decline. Do they underestimate the free contribution that a lot of us give to the Microsoft dissemination? It's time to start over the chain of inspiration, pretty like the windows 10 event when they unveiled hololens. I can still taste that feeling of pure innovation and technology ☺. ASAP!
Well it would show an interest in Mobile from MS, os yes a good thing, Ive understood Microsoft as a service but Ive not understood the Mobile plan the Windows Phone was doing well in in (Europe at least) and was making the public aware of windows on mobile. For me MS need to step up on the devices on all price points and really get some advertising stratergy.
I think the main problem is TRUST. MS has burned too many bridges for many people to trust them, both developers and consumers. The Api changes should have been minimized with the reset to windowsphone 7, this should have been the base to build off from then on. I the differences between windows phone and windows 8 were sinforsky's fault by not reusing what was already built, but lets face it, that was pretty typical of MS. Now they have been trying to align everthing from years of divergence it is causing a lot of API changes. I think the next one with .Net Core and .Net Standard they will finally get everything aligned. On the Hardware side, when they changed the kernel in 8, they should have provided a way for legacy phones with no technical limitations to update even if it was with an external installer. With windows 10 we lost even more phones that should have been technically able to run windows 10. All of this erodes confidence and trust. I like the Idea of windows on arm, but I think it would be a mistake to abandon windows mobile as it could be used to target lower spec devices that could better target price sensitive markets, which are more important now than they were in the past because of carries moving away from subsidies.
You're right. I don't trust Microsoft at all now. Our love affair of so many years is over and I'm considering my options.
New hardware
Full Windows 10 in tablet mode as default and good scaling I think that's all they need to do.
Give me a break....
is it so hard to wait what the future brings? This year still two w10m Phones will see the daylight. Only Android phones getting released by the week, its amazing. Apple brings every year 1 device range. there is only 1 issue and that is microsoft being quiet about w10m. Except the insider program which I love. So why are the authors so frustrated from WC?
it's because of the insider program that we have such mediocre quality..no offense, it's not your fault, but MS's for laying off testers and replacing them with insiders. what phones to see the daylight? that pathetic attempt from Wharton Brooks? :)))) really? :)))
Correct Mariusmuntean. But it's not the insider program its Nutella. He canned the entire phone team, for this insider ****, and the rest is history...but hey, spending 26 billion dollars on "business facebook" was a super wise decision.....
Their problem, as it has always been, is the APP-GAP. People use mobile devices so they can do things on the go. If they don't have the app they need to get this done, they don't want that device. I was a very devout WP user, but this year I switched. Apps were getting dropped left and right and granted, the bare minimum apps were there, but if I wanted to try something new, I couldn't. There is virtually zero marketing. Everytime an ad goes up on TV or the web, you see the icons for "iTunes App" and "Android App", but no "Windows Store". It is sad and it pisses me off, to be frank. MS needs to get it together, get the apps, be able to compete on a level playing field, and you just might get your customers back. So, no, a reboot is NOT going to help them if they don't have the apps, and they don't market their products.
Win 10 on Arm needs an android subsystem like the x86 one. Allow it to run UWP, Win32, Android apps natively on ARM64. App gap fixed permanently. Let your competition save you, sure you will need a google account but that's fine. But the hardware will have to be awesome.
I think a reset would be fine as long as they position not just as a phone. After all, at some point our future is going to look more like Hololens and Google Glass than a slab we call a mobile phone. I think it's important to for MS to show they are future thinking.
The reason MS did not succeed is they are from a different century. They do not belong in the XXI century and this becomes more apparent by the day. 1. QUALITY - They are to this day used to releasing a half-baked product and then update it as required. Look at W95 or W98. XP got more or less smooth only by the SP3. Vista debacle anyone? They are used to not having any real competition. Being a monopoly prevented them from keeping in shape. Once they hit a real market they sunk like a stone. Anyone remember Windows 8? It came out without any 'x'-button in the upper right corner to close the window. Folks were restarting computer from the power button because they wanted to get out of that browser and open a game (apparently not everybody uses Alt-Tab or Alt-F4 these days). There were literally tens of thousands of newly bought laptops people returned because of Windows8! And hundreds of other issues. I remember my frustration with trying to get to the damn Control Panel! What kind of batsh*t crazy lunatic approved that interface?? What quality control did it undergo?? 2. INNOVATION - Fanboys keep telling about how MS innovate. Where? Windows was "influenced" by MacOS. Xbox copied from PlayStation. Band copied from dozens of smartwatches/trackers. Surface copied from countless tablets and convertibles. The only time they innovated to some extent was when they put WM on those PDAs/phones in early 2000s. Ironically the phones is exactly the market where they failed miserably later. Look at the second photo in the article. The one on the left is WP 7. That OS has been launched in 2010! That's 3 years after the iPhone! Does that look to you like a product people would wanna buy?? The crap on the right is WP 8.0. After the flop of WP7 you release that retarded interface in 2013 hoping to woo the market?? Really? In 2013?! Ironically they released WP8.1 in 2014 which actually started to look and behave like a somewhat modern mobile OS. That would have been the moment to invest more into apps and work on improving it in later versions in 2015, 2016, 2017. One major update every year would have been great. Windows Store was finally starting to look like a decent appstore. But no! Let's re-invent ourselves into non-existence! That stupid keyboard swipe works only in a dozen languages. They could have invested into making it better and millions would have benefited! But why would you do something smart when you can be an idiot and invest in Continuum instead?? Which will be used by how many? 400 people worldwide? Maybe less... The problem with MS is they just got lucky with the previous successes of Windows. Do you know how the interface on the most popular mobile OS looks? That's right! It looks like Windows XP! Or WM. Android just ripped Windows' interface. But noooo! MS had to re-invent the wheel! Because they are smart and smart people try to re-invent the wheel every day! They had gold in their hand. And were stupid enough to not even realise that and went for a piece of limestone instead! 3. ATTITUDE - MS does not understand what they are doing. They got cocky and proud during the 90s-00s and got completely disconnected from the market as a whole or the individual user. Their pride made them fools. I don't think they have any plans right now. It's like someone hit them in the head with a bat and they just sit there on the ground dumbstruck. They are just looking over the fence at others and hope they will be able to copy. The problem is you cannot copy Google. There can only be one Google in the market. And that is their strength and they (Google) know it. So what should MS do? I don't know. I really don't know. It's too fogging late now. It feels like whatever they will do it will flop later. Like it doesn't even matter anymore.
Your comment about their attitude is right on the money. Microsoft was too arrogant and believed in their own greatness, while the guy on the next lane was catching up and then leaving MS behind. Now they're lost and keep batting blindfolded.
I read about a 950 XL user reset his phone to install the new build 15204 and his phone had major problems after the build was installed. Phones are not cheap, so a reset may drive current Window phone users to other brands that are more reliable. To cut out older phones from the software isn't helping the situation. I still have my Nokia 900 with Windows 7.8, I would like to see some Windows 10 on it, after all I have a Nokia 520 that has Windows 10. The 900 has more ram then the 520.
It would silly to give up on Windows Phone, Microsoft has a quality mobile platform and should just persist! Think SQL Server, XBox, SharePoint Server - Office 365, and many other products which went from zero to market leading. This process sometimes takes years of persistance, investment, development and ferocious marketing. Microsoft's product portfolio is the most comprehensie of all software vendors and that is one, if not the main, Microsoft's advantage. Perhaps, it would be good to have a low cost and a hight end models, as powerful as possible, with option to install either Windows 10 or Windows 10 Mobile; and perhaps it would be good to have 7" and 5.7" surface phablets, to bring Surface users closer to Windows phone.
Totally agree with this. It would be silly to reset. The inability to gain traction is not due to the OS. The OS is fantastic.
Agree, and I doubt that full windows on smartphones will solve Microsoft's problem with the market share. Most people are quite dumb with computers and would avoid them if they could. The smartphone with its apps is the meet-in-the-middle for most users. It offers the advantages of a computer without being one and confusing them. They should concentrate on this W10/W10M platform and develop it further. Bring good devices to market (even at a loss or zero profit) and keep trying to bring developers onboard.
I just don't understand how come for such a big corporation they can't do the marketing well? Maybe too much into enterprise marketing and totally forgot how to market in consumer level.
I can't even remember the last time I saw a commercial for a Microsoft product other than the Xbox. I see Apple advertise all the time, so does Samsung, and those 2 sell the majority of the phones.
Microsoft would market their devices if they felt they had a good product. Otherwise, there is no point.
Agree. That's exactly what I have been saying for years. The problem with MS is they have no clue and even when they have a good product they would not understand what makes it good. See the issue of user interface. Android copied the UI from Windows who in turn copied it long ago from MacOS. That design of icons floating in the air is the most natural to our brains. MS did not understand that. What did they do? They spat in thier own cofee and went to make themselves a herbal tea (Metro UI). How popular is herbal tea? And how popular is coffee? Exactly. Their problem is they are driven by solely engineering and don't have the human touch. I don't think they really understand how human brain works.
Already Windows 10 Mobile doesn't attract developers. But rebooting the platform for the third time I think will doom it. Probably there will be no developers willing to invest effort in developing applications for this platform.
And, as it has been said by other readers, rebooting the platform one more time I think it comes in contradiction with the advertised idea that there is only one Windows 10 Core, and you write the application once and run it on all the systems. It will not look good on Microsoft to come and tell: "Do you remember what we told you years ago about how Windows 10 unifies everything? Well, we changed our mind. We want to reboot the mobile platform one more time."
Anyway, I don't think that the mobile platform is the problem. If Microsoft would have invested more in promoting UWP, would have invested more in attracting more developers to the UWP world, I think the platform would have had a better position now.
They have lied so many times that this time would not even matter for anyone if they lie again. It's hard to build trust, confidence from users in your products and your company, and so easy to lose it.
At this point whatever just fix the platform it's so many issues like bugs, absent features, lack of a strategy here is the real problem not the system itself as a whole
I think this is the right time to switch to Android, look at the bright side that we still can go with Nokia.
I'll never even look at another Microsoft Windows phone unless it dual boots with Android and full access to the Play store. If they want to keep up this pathetic charade of being in the mobile market, they should consider that.
No need for dual boot. Can use android emulator on WOA devices.
Why even bother with a "reset"? Just keep updating the OS and as the hardware won't support it, let those fall off the list. That method seems to work fine for other manufacturers. Nail down the OS, release it, then work on improvements for the next increment. Having been on the Insider Rings for a while, I'm not sure this is the mode of operation. Now, if we could get a hybrid of WM6.5 and WM10, that'd be ideal for several WM fans, I think. I for one, miss the days of custom ROMs.
Three words: Microsoft Skinned Android.
They already have the Arrow launcher which isn't really like WM at all, and then there are other launchers that sort of replicate tiles. I don't see how they monetize any of this. I think a dual boot flagship phone with Android on one side and WM on the other is the only path forward if they want to continue making phones.
What is the point? Why would you ever boot into Windows? I used to do the same thing with my laptop. Dual boot Windows and Linux. Never found a reason to boot into Linux.
Probably not, but nor would I use a use a MS skinned Android UI. I'm saying that if they're going to make a phone, and assuming they're going to continue making an OS, it should be dual boot. It's the only way I'd consider buying one.
Disagree here. I have been dual booting on my computers for the last 10 years. Today I spend 90% of the time in Ubuntu (Linux). If my laptop did not come with Windows pre-installed I would probably not even bother installing Windows on it. Windows itself is becoming irrelevant. Fast.
Microsoft is talking only for ppl that work using their devices, but never talks for normal everyday usage ppl. That's why they lose their customers.
It may have been said elsewhere, but I'd like a "Windows Phone launcher" for android where MS gives us the UI we love on top of Android. They can already build great MS apps (and MS services!) on top of what is out there, so just go all-in. This would make App-Gap go away too. I think most of what would make an Andoid feel like a Windows Phone could be done by making apps that talk to each other accross devices. The other option is the Amazon trick of FireOS, which is obviously a bit more than just a launcher. The issue there is the store has gone stagnent. If Amazon cannot get devs to do practically nothing to update the Amazon App Store, how does MS expect to get devs to re-write for the windows? The dream of Windows Everywhere is great, but I'd rather see "Microsoft Apps/Services Everywhere". I'm not sure of the benefit of MS owning (and maintaining) the base layer OS anyway. We've got .NET Core running everywhere, and now SQL on Linux. So why not a Windows UI on Android.
Android does have Window style launchers, some live tile function but not as "live" as I would like it.
Microsoft should reward every "verified Windows Phone user with whatever phone that is. What's next, shoot all of us and put us out of our collectivize misery?
As long as they keep the interface and support all the office apps they IMHO can change what they like. I really hate the way you have to use Android or iOS. I dont need millions of homescreens and menu-trees you need a map for.
I have two competing views on this: 1. With each reset, the user base plummeted. From 6.5 -> 7 -> 8 -> 10. Arguably, that wasn't becasue of the reset. Nevertheless, the data is not friendly to the idea. 2. A "reset" now is hardly a reset. We're already at One Core. Any UWP apps that I have will still run on an Windows 10 on ARM device, so only a reset in that current devices won't be upgradeable. That's hardly an issue when most of us are specifcially clammoring for new devices more than new software. So, I'm not opposed to the idea and don't really think it could hurt anything. Even factoring in #1, how much lower than the market share go? Go for it. If it works, runs my existing UWP apps, and maintains my Windows ecosystem and lets me talk on a phone over the Verizon network and includes a camera, in addition to whatever computing power it has, I'll almost certainly buy it.
if MS continue to rely only on US market, soon or later they will become an app making company for Android and iOS.
Couldn't agree more! They support only a handful of languages and markets. Cortana does not work in Romania. Google Now does. The swipe does not work in Romanian on MS keyboard. On Android you have tons of keyboards with swipe in Romanian. Google Docs perfectly understands Romanian, I can dictate pages and pages with more or less acceptable accuracy. Even if I wanted to use Cortana in English I still cannot, once I set country to Romania Cortana becomes inaccessible. What OS do you think will be on my next phone? Make a wild guess.
I've been with Windows on mobile since very late 6.5 and the start of 7. I still enjoy it up to this day. I wouldn't mind a reset, but hopefully they do it in the way they've been going to ensure Windows as an OS is unified and the same across all platforms (albeit having a different 'shell').
Whatever Microsoft does/does not do in mobile, it just won't make any difference at this point. The game is over. No one is interested. The world has settled on Android, with Apple a distant 2nd.
I'm pretty sure whatever would come next it will be including UWP so who cares about another reset? current devices will keep working just fine for a couple of years more...
Nah, wouldn't be a big deal. I'd buy a new phone with Windows 10 whatever edition anyway. In fact, I'd buy 2 or 3.
Well, if the last Microsoft phone was the 950, the time the next iteration of Windows on mobile arrive it will be time to change your device anyway. Keeping a phone more than 3 years is not exactly practical, I think.
Current IOS apps don't work on my older iphones and older apps arent available for my newer iphones, what's different, you either keep what you got or you move with the tech and get the latest and greatest, why should Windows hold back on going forward, l like progress 😊
That's odd. I have a hand-me-down Iphone 5s, which is going on 4 years old. It was released with OS 7. I just updated it to 10.3.1. I also have a Galaxy S6. It shipped with 5.0.2. I immediately upgraded it to 6. It is now running Android 7, along with my brand new S7 Edge. Now THAT is support. Microsoft is far too willing to drop "old" phones way before its necessary. I have an Icon and a 1520, both just got dumped. So, I got a great deal on a brand new 950 XL Dual Sim on Ebay. I will continue to follow all 3 phones. I still like Windows Phones, but when I need an app for something its on the S7 Edge. I don't use the Iphone 5s much because it is so small. I love the big screens of the 1520, 950 XL and S7 Edge.
Bad idea ...didn't read the article.
A reset won't fix their market share.
If someone has a great idea, or rather if MS has a great idea, the miniscule number of W10M users won't matter. Great ideas attract a crowd. Do they have a great idea? Who knows?
to me, allready second time was enough 😡, next choice is NOKIA 6 for me
As their phone efforts are tied to desktop windows development and the entire company has been following the onus of "One Microsoft", I think another reset is highly unlikely.
Previously phone versions were their own respective branches but ever since One Core, that's not the issue. You could release a new UI (CShell is coming, we know), or discontinue support for older chipsets, but I can't see why an HP elite x3 or any hypothetical device running windows mobile on a sd835 would be "dated" in the short term. Their 650 is still supported and that comes with a 200 series, so it's definitely not the capabilities of the hardware, rather the manufacturing process that's acting as a divider - at least probably.
So I can only repeat what I've said before: there is nothing that would warrant a reset - unless they plan on porting their entire mobile iteration to a different chipset. But last we heard none of the major desktop suppliers are in the game, other successfull proprietary chip makers belong to their respective companies, and if MS was making their own, we would've caught wind of it by now.
I'm this close ->.<- to leaving WM10 for Android (just waiting to hear any news at BUILD next month). For me to stick with MS phones/super-mobile-computer-thingies means they'll have all the apps the other 2 platforms have. So it'll have to emulate or steal or just outright use Android apps, because developers are not going to flock back to MS. Announcing that a new pocketable PC will continuumly run my desktop, laptop, phone, home appliances and car won't make any difference to me if the apps aren't there. Full Windows or WoA or backwards compatibility - none of it matters if we (well, I) can't do the things I need or want to do on my phone-like device (listen to XM, pay with it, bank with it, hook it into my car, etc.), that Android and iPhone users don't think twice about.
Microsoft should make Windows an open source OS. That way they can win territory in the mobile ecosystem.
But what problems would another reset solve? At the core, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with WP/W10M so if they were to reset, what's the point? The big issue is lack of support from third party developers and especially now, hardware manufacturers. What compelling reason would MS have to offer to get an iphone or android user to jump ship and go with microsoft? I get the feeling that no matter what MS does, they've got nothing left to do.
Greetings Zac ... Pedantic comment on wording within the penultimate paragraph: "I think, if there's ever been a better time for a reset, that time would be now." just doesn't reside comfortably within our current space-time continuum. (Because if there has ever been a better time for a reset ... well that time has already passed us by.) Maybe somthing like: "If MS is seeking a minimally disruptive point at which to initiate a reset, that time might be now." Keep a good thought anyway. I know I am ...
I don't think it would be a bad idea...I think a surface phone offering will actually penetrate the market. The problem we have right now is that there is no demand for a device that a market can be developed for that will sustain a perpetual buy cycle on a two-year basis. That first device would have to be on the scale of the Nokia 1020 where it would attract TONS of interest. skinned android, perfect solution using Microsoft services. When it was owned by Microsoft, it was to take down the Nokia powerhouse that was there. And they succeeded. I think this time, with a surface name vs Lumia, using Windows as the base os vs the amalgamation of Windows Mobile, it would be a great solution.
Well, considering that Microsoft renamed Windows 10 Mobile to Windows 10 for ARM-based phone devices this may mean a new set of phone-sized devices in Q4. Maybe...
um. yes, yes it would be a disaster.
MS only have the hard core fans left. They alienate more and more people with every reset or dropped support for a hardware device. They need to stick with something mobile.. become trustworthy...
They have so little mindshare already. They have to build something and sustain it.
Given how low market share seems to be I doubt most people would notice. I was a huge fan of WP but the lack of support and constant rebooting pushed me to Android. The only way I'm coming back if is if they release something capable of running Android apps.
The reset will only be successful if it can tap into the wealth of iOS/Android apps. Else it won't. Apps are king in mobile devices. No matter how much I love my Lumia 950XL, since my Banks, Flight, Taxi, movie, tickets apps stop supporting W10m, it pretty much sits on a drawer waiting for the next fast build.
The way things are right now I'm guessing another reset, but this time I'm not going along with this reset anymore I've finally decided to move on from windows on mobile device until MS is ready to take things seriously.
I don't see the need for a refresh. Windows 10 is as one core as it ever can be right now. What will another reset accomplish?
Well, they would be burning both users and developers. You only get so many chances. It will take years for people to form any confidence and that's with Microsoft pouring money into mobile - talent, resources, hardware and marketing. Without any of these.... Anyone have a time machine?...
There is no choice but to reset. The current W10M is practically dead. The few millions of users left are mostly using w8.1, phones older than 2-3 yrs. I welcome the reset. Making another phone will be pointless, as they can't compete. The next device will be category defining. Panos and his team are working hard at it, I'm betting they will succeed. Meanwhile, I'm happy to use my 950XL, Elite x3. There are no killer apps on iPhone or Android that I need or want.
No bad Idea Windows phone failed a long side windows 8 tiles look trying to make a phone Os on a desktop one size does not fit all no more windows phones please I quit windows because of this plus the other issues
Microsoft can be great innovators. All MS need to do is give another great phone with new features, buiold it and promote it. Make it happen MS. I don't want an app for every bussiness or website. Make us phones and we will buy them.
I think the Surface brand might be the only hope they have at this point... the HP Elite is a fantastic device and I could care less if it works 4 or even 2 years from now, because I will have a new device anyway...
Unlike previous resets (back when they had some users and relevance) they've nothing left to lose by doing another one.
I thiink an acceptable reset will depend on just what we mean by "reset". If old models drop off the supported list, but the API's remain compatible (IE UWP's written for earlier versions of the mobilr API's continue to function), and, if it's full Windows 10 with both X86 and ARM support, and if a large fraction of desktop apps will now work in the mobile environment, then I for one won't have a problem with the new mobile environment only working on new H/W architectures and form factors. Previous resets were problematical because they broke apps developed for the previous environments. As I've said here (and elsewhere) we've got to get beyond mobile meaning "phones". That ship has sailed. Whatever MS does in mobile, it's not likely to be new kinds of phones. Rather I think we'll see new kinds of mobile devices in form factors we've never seen before -- at least that is if MS hopes to garner some success in "mobile" -- whatever that turns out to be.
The reason Microsoft isn't in the conversation isn't because the OS or platform are bad. There have been examples of great platforms that didn't gain traction---webOS, Windows 10 mobile....just to name a few recent examples. I'd almost argue that webOS was before its time. It suffered primarily due to subpar hardware. Oddly Microsoft can't claim the same although I do think the hardware ideas initially coming out for Windows Phone 7 were far superior to a lot of the ideas Windows 10 Mobile partners have put forward in the last few years. The early HTC and Samsung phones from Windows Phone 7 were great. The first two Samsung phones I owned with Windows Phone 7 were among some of the most favorite and reliable I ever had. I would love to get to the point where we could buy a galay s8 and have the option of any OS on it (Android, iOS, Windows). I'm not sure we ever get there though...
yes.. short form answer.. Hell yeah.. long form answer.
No. Because this is their plan. They are not supporting W10m. They want it to die out. Then comes ARM phones. Or small tablets with phone capability. Maybe a 3rd party will take it on. Actually - might do better. But if you are about to change - why not go to Google?
Windows Mobile is where the Mac was 20 years ago. I think it has a chance. Over the next 10 years I expect computing to change significantly, Microsoft just has to be ready when the convergence starts happening. It does seem to me that the Mac users are the ones that think Windows Mobile can't ever make progress. They should know better.
What MS does on mobile right now, unless they break a paradigm is pretty irrelevant. They may just do that soon, with conversation as a platform, but regardless - What MS needs is to win the cheap tablet sector, and the cheap laptop sector from google. WIndows and bugdet are the _only_ growth sectors in tablets. Samsung and Apple have been falling for years now. If microsoft can be in both, they can gain serious momentum over ios and android in that sector. And then there's the chromebook. If windows cloud, and windows on arm, can capture the budget market for tablets and laptops - then UWP as a platform will have MUCH more use. I mean I use UWP all the time on tablet and desktop, they are clean, lightweight and easy to use. There's many more titles these days too. But capturing those budget markets, that's what will set the windows store on fire, and bring in larger amounts of developers. And that seems to be MS exact plan. As for phone - well, I expect MS wants "something new" when it releases its next phone. Something with unique and novel capabilities. A next step. Its hardly reasonable to expect that runs on old hardware. That would me like expecting your ipod software to run on your old CD player. But I think that'll be awhile off. I also don't see win 10 mobile going away, or ending updates any time this year. Even in the long term it could be an ideal platform for wearables.
I think keeping the path with uwp is the way to go...the problem with ms was app gap, took too long to join the market and people/developers weren't interested after a while with a solid number of clients. Having to develop for another platform would mostly like encore losses... Bust if all apps would to run on all devices equally...most people would revert to MS...just because the ecosystem would be complete (Mobile, Desktop/notebook/Surface/Hub/Console for games and now coming strong VR and 3D advanced technology as well as Cortana moving to other devices) so if you use at least two systems and a different Mobile Os than windows...soon everyone will want to be together..and MS are masters when it comes to their products working together... Look at office...it took them a while but the got it right....
Oh it's only a small amount of fans they would be burning if they reset yet again? That's probably because they did this so often already which created such a low amount of fans in the first place. I already knew they were going to pull this stunt when they announced W10ARM and basically dropped every other current device with the exception of a few. I said it before but yeah I was there with my L800 when they abandoned it for WP8. I was there with my L925 when they abandoned it for W10M. Now my old 930 has been abandoned for W10M CU..... And now my current 950XL will end up abandoned for whatever the hell they come up with next. So why would I or anybody else want to go through all this again with such a terrible track record and a damn good chance of the same thing happening to whatever future device and OS they come up with next? Oh but these abandoned devices work just fine anyways? Go back on a WP8 device and see how many apps are still available after many switched to UWP..... Go back to a WP7 device and see just how useless those are now with barely any apps functioning. Considering the amount of apps (which isn't many) are currently available for W10M, how long will it take for my 950XL to tank once their new OS comes out? And I'm supposed to want to go through all of this again with no assurance I won't have my device and OS abandoned again when they decide to reset yet again?? I wouldn't expect anybody, even most fans, to go through this BS over and over.
Judging by the way the things are going under Nadella, I bet if there would be another reboot, this time it would be a custom version of Android with a launcher resembling W10M and running MS services instead of Google's, something like that Nokia X thing, but more polished. And to be honest, I don't think this is a bad idea now, considering how Nadella successfully killed the Windows on phones idea.
My guess is an actual Windows 10 Home (desktop) interface tweaked for better touch functionally. Funny this was written because I just was looking for a small, fast, high res, Windows 10 tablet and there simply are none. In the end I opted for ordering another Surface 3 The Surface Phone in three separate sizes that covers all phone to phablet needs much like the latest Asus Zenfone 3 series all with pen support and win32 app capabilities IS NEEDED NOW! OEMs have completely FAILED this segment of the market all opting for 2 n 1 form factors with crappy screens and crappy chassis leaving it up to Chinese Manufacturers to fill the gap with tablets. Even Microsoft store sells them because there is NOTHING ELSE TO SELL! And let's face it Windows Phone/Mobile is dead! Therefore: Now is the time for the Surface line to show OEMs what they should be building in this small form factor which is what the Surface line was always about from the beginning! Taking the failed Phone portion and incorporating it into a Surface device that would be the ultimate business and even consumer device!
I am only keeping my Lumia 650 but there's nothing Microsoft can do so I can spend a single dime on a future Windows Phone. Windows 10 Mobile is a disaster. I remember people amazed at how fast an efficient Windows 8.1 was running on a Lumia 520 with 512 MB of Ram. Windows 10 Mobile struggles to keep 1 app working in the background and then being resumed. Even the simplest operation like being in Whatsapp, going back to the Start screen and immediatelly returning to whatsapp results in at least 3 seconds of unnecesary Resuming... message and sometimes it takes even 10 seconds or the app crashes This has happened on Lumia 950 as well. I mean where are the Quality control and performance test department? Are they really satisfied with a faulty Beta OS that is being sold as a finished product? Shouldn't they be working on refactoring code and improving the performance and awful memory management? Memory management is a joke and that is a problem. We used to praise how fluid the OS with devices they ditches claiming incompatibilities. Well, I have seen Windows 10 Mobile on "unsupported", "incompatible" devices like the Lumia 930 in the exact same crappy way it runs on the Lumia 950 and 950 XL so the problem was not the old devices or the processor architecture, the problem was that they wanted to sell new phones. Dropping support for devices that have enough power to run the OS was a terrible mistake. Now we are on a release2 branch that has not been really clarified and I assume this new leaf from Zac speaks to that uncertainty. A new reset for something that did not work, has not worked and will not work until Microsoft really starts listening to users. PC and Mobile are not the same, that should be easy to understand. Microsoft is the king of desktop and the clown on mobile so making the same OS on both platforms was not a good idea specially if you are ditching powerful hardware to start launching mid range phones with an OS that has no idea on how to deal with the limited memory it has. We used to complain for the lack of apps anhd that was not necessarily Microsoft's fault it was devs decision not to invest on a new, uncertain platform and we have accepted that some apps will never arrive, some other are leaving and more are about to leave but what we just cannot stand is the mediocre performance even on high end devices. To make matters worse... the same Microsoft apps we struggle with on Windows 10 Mobile are more polished, snappy and functional in the OS of the competition. Microsoft apps on Android and IOS are way better and that sends a message to us users. If they spend more time and effort on Android and IOS well, that means that they consider Android and IOS the right place to be. This last minute move of considering Windows 10 Mobile a Business oriented tool is the result of Microsoft not honest enough to accept that they messed up because they do not listen to real users. This one failed dear Redmond so let it go... next time make sure you stop listening to surveys and analysts and focus on what paying user really need. They will tell you what it is.
They do not have a QA department anymore...Satya fired them all. What do you think insiders are for? Free beta testers...hell with the quality
My comment is and has always been the same: these are not APPS! This is the user interface which is not appealing and to clumsy to use! Metro interface simply is not for normal person and folks at Microsoft can't accept it, stubbornly spending billions of dollars on promoting it. No one, who is not a programmer or a computer geek, wants to spend hours constantly arranging and re-arranging tiles because they always change and float around the screen. Folks, be serious, no one wants keep guessing what does every unnamed tile mean! This is good for kids playing with blocks. I know iOS and Android are unimaginatively plain and too large extent ugly, but they are there for you, always, in the same place! One can easily see where is your every APP. Your old parents can see them, your grandmother can see it, your girlfriend can see them. Not on Windows phone... So let's stop here. If MSF does not change it, resetting hardware will not help and I am buying my first Android. I am fed up telling this again and again and not seeing ANY improvement. All changes what I see is the round faces of my People trying to roll within a square tile. The effect is pathetic. Come on Nadela, what did you approve? At least during Ballmer times square faces nicely rotated and shuffled within square tile, this last bastion of prettiness of Metro is gone.... The rest is colorful chaos.
What are you talking about? My tiles don't move unless I move them. I have never had a tile move that I didn't move. Ever. I know today is 420, but come on! The only reason I'm still on Windows Mobile is because of the tiles.
It would be so nice if you could write somehing like this: http://1reddrop.com/2017/04/20/surface-phone-is-not-a-smartphone-vital-c...
Someone has removed my post again. So, I am rewriting it again in few sentences Tiles are great, but to a regular user look like colorful chaos. Too fluid and changing too much. Hard to remember what they are, because no names are there... Therefore this is the most needed improvement, not a hardware, most users do not care or know about ARMs, RISCs and CISCs. It is fine whatever it is inside. Users care about ease of usage, access to their most wanted apps. That is hard to achieve on Windows Phone and Windows in general. Let's reset this simple to reset thing first and talk about the rest later.
In the pathetic state MS is in right now, it would not matter whatever they do. Devs won't bite the same crap over and over again, and users...I don't know how many would be that stupid to trust Microsoon again. I don't trust these dumb @$$es anymore...so I could give a damn if they reset this mobile platform once again, I won't buy into their lies this time...had enough of their crap.
yes, it will be a BAD idea or should I say a TERRIBLE idea. Every time it has gone for a reset, it has lost users and developers alike. Windows 10 was well and truly the last hope for Microsoft. With it, we got continuum and UWP. This was one of those rare occasions that MS actually delivered on one of its tall promises. But what happened post that has been a complete disaster. Phone division was completely shut-down. No new device for nearly two years to replace something which was already a year old at launch. Hardly any windows phone users left (at least no is buying windows phones now). And whatever third party apps are left are leaving the platform slowly but for good.
The only positive news I have heard in a long time has come not from MS but QUALCOMM. That the first PC on ARM will be out in Q4 this year. If that turns out to be the surface phone, there is some hope. Otherwise, rather than a reset MS will decide to scrap mobile, and thereby UWP, ambitions for good.
I'm very happy with a reboot if it means full Windows 10 on ARM in a phone sized format. I accept that for CPU, maturity and size reasons that would unlikely be until the end of 2018 but I'm still more than happy with my 950XL (shame my 1520 is off insider but it is over 3 years old for goodness sake). Not a big change for devs as still UWP focused regardless and I'd be able to run our godawful HPE Salesbuilder for Windows app in desktop mode potentially. What THEY DO need to do is tell us its coming (or not) - having had to spend two weeks using Android on my Blu Vivo 6 due to a screen smash (tbc a its a lot of phone for the money barring the awful camera), I still prefer Windows; but if I need to prepare myself for iPhone 8 or Galaxy S9...or hold off for "reboot" bloody well tell me Microsoft!
So far, so bad....well done Microsoft.
Had been thinking of jumping ship....tried using a samsung mid ranger with.....good for the most part and marshmallow has made android more enjoyable than before but the ui, memory management and it's still resource hungry- i so badly missed my 640xl in my attempt to enjoy android.....anniversary update of windows 10 had been good but creators update actually made windows 10 perform like it should have been in 2015....maybe its time to look on the other side maybe not....a lot depends on may 2 and the build....if they plan to bring out something compelling with windows 10 on arm, will stay.....else have to bite the bullet and move on till there's a paradigm shift in the mobile space.....its been hard to live with apps that either are not there or crash or are there jus for the namesake.....we didn't even receive the patch for volte here....forced to use only data.....jus stupid to be still faithful to someone who doesn't give a **** about its customers......the ui and performance of windows mobile kept pulling me back.....
I miss my Lumia 800..
I saw extensive Windows Phone marketing all over the world back in its infancy, including US TV ads and extensive street advertising in Paris. I think Microsoft did the best they could. I think WP is like Betamax, which was technically superior, but was vanquished in the marketplace by the inferior VHS format...
I actually hope they do another reset. Why not? Let Panos get the product right. Let a great marketing firm get the message right. We'll never "overtake" android or iPhone. Who cares. We just need a great, even semi-finished product. Yes some will leave. See ya. Some will stay. Congrats. And we'll see some new fans. Welcome. Bring the refresh. But let's get all parts right this time. Oh.. And an amazing device in Verizon THANKS!!!
Panos only does hardware he cannot sort out the W10 Mobile software mess. The problem is the platform, and Microsoft insisting trying to cram the whole Windows build onto a tiny ARM chip. It will never work, or peform any where nearly as well as simpler Android and iOS. WP7 used to cream iOS and Android in performance ["Smoked by Windows Phone" adverts], on inferior hardware, cos it was based upon a simpler Windows CE kernel. Sincle Windows 8 and W10, the builds are buggier and cannto perform.
Microsoft destroy windows mobile. They have this market share because Microsoft didn't invest for two or more years in their mobile platform! For me story of buying new microsoft products are dead. I am gonna use only other software and hardware. I am using on laptop Linux ubuntu, and for phone android, only tablet is windows, but this is going to change soon! Goodbye Microsoft you lost your fan!
So, no one followed Microsoft during the last reset (even though they at least had single figure market shares to start with). WHO should even care about what they do now when there are no customers left and when no one (except approx.. 10-15 people on this site…) cares about their mistreated system? Truth is, the “Mastermind” Nadella managed to effectively kill the system, push away customers, push away developers AND disappoint hardware producers. Well done!
That's very simple. If the Reset gives us X86 apps on ARM Processors (And 100% real Windows in continuum) then the reset is acceptible. If the reset STILL locks us to UWP, then it is absolutely OUT OF THE QUESTION!
The flatform is fine. It just needs APPS! MS wake up!
Waiting till Microsoft can offer a platform that can equal devices like Galaxy Note and an app ecosystem that doesn't just have essential apps for the US but takes into account the rest of the globe, with quality apps. If it doesn't have ads and i can pay to have a relatively private, secure platform i'll take it into consideration. Till then it's not worth my time.
Look. Someone, who's not Einstein, once say that to expect a different result while doing the same thing over again is insanity. Windows Mobile and Windows Phone isn't working. Too much compromises in the SDK and resets that frustrates devs. I'm still using my 950XL and don't feel compelled to change. BUT, I think to save the WinMo, the only way is to ditch it and bring on full Windows. Before SD835 and b4 x86 emulation on ARM, I would never agree that full Windows on a Phone will make sense. But with the silicon and software developments (CShell) over the past 4 months, I'm convinced that full Win10 on a Smartphone can work. MS has also enhanced the font scaling in Win10CU. Power-throttling is also needed to try to increase battery life. These little nuggets tell me that MS is moving full Win10 into mobile ASAP. I'm fed-up with the app-gap and I'm fed-up with the tombstoning memory management. Give me full Win10 on a phone. Please reset Windows Phone but I don't want Win10Mo anymore.
There will not be any advancements on current Windows phone or any "resets". Windows phone as it is now is DEAD. The next step is full Windows 10 in a handheld device. Until then you are wasting your time with Windows phone.
I could tolerate another reset if I had to, but please wait until my 950XL is 2 years old.(or at least let my 950XL function til it's 2) I wouldn't mind resetting to Android as long as there was no google involved, and I had Edge on android, OneDrive, To-Do, Office 365, OneNote, and all the other Microsoft apps and ecosystem working with my other Windows 10 PC's. Cyanogen? LineageOS? Microid?
A hard reset hasn't changed a thing for Microsoft since each iteration of their platform hardly ever caught on but having a trasitional device would keep those who stayed with the latest version of windows mobile from leaving to the competition. WOA will be percieved as a lost cause if they don't offer this OS to the highest end of Windows 10 mobile device hold outs. Being a Windows mobile user who moved over to windows phone and then currently a Windows 10 mobile user, there is very little faith that Microsoft can survive in this market if they continue their constant mistakes instead of trying to reach a wider user base. If Microsoft can't make their new platform compatible with the last generation of devvices , even if in a limited form, WOA has already failed before it's even availble.
A platform rest is inevitable. But it won't be as painful as before. In fact it is possible that most users will not feel any difference.
If a newer reboot would happen, than it would hurt less, than before, because now, barely any users left. Personally, I really loved it, but base Apps doesn't enough. Sadly using MS services on Android isn't as smooth as it was in WM, but in other hand, I have working apps. Had high hope for WM, but it failed miserably. Desktop Windows is great, but would not be enough on its own in a long run. And a previously was mentioned: wearables, IOT, home and car. Well, home is coming, IOT is kind of here, the rest of it... Auto is kind of disappearing. AR well... basically same...
the failure of Windows Phone is [in my opinion] 1.being late 2.lack of apps 3.being unique in UI for consumers 4.being unique in development for developers A Platform reset is necessary. but it is a bad idea. it would be better if Microsoft can take its fans in a SHIFT than a RESET Microsoft should consider few things 1.There is no new people on this planet to try the smartphone first [even kids has an experience with a smartphone] - it would be negative for sure if people has to learn something new/strangely unique 2.Microsoft has to understand that their potential users are already in an ecosystem [android/ios] - stealing someone from a comfort of an ecosystem is not going to be easy 3.What are the factors that can make the people grow interest in WP - being futuristic [maybe shove in a sim card into a holo lens and miniaturize it] Next Gen Kids would love it - being similar [no more being unique stunts] just release an iOS like icon desktop and UX thats enough tile screen can be pushed to the sides as "Favorites Screen" where Main Screen be a simple icon desktop 4.What Microsoft needs is a PUSH a stellar PUSH - Just because Surface Pro and Surface Studio has revolutionized the category doesn't mean that Microsoft can change the smartphone paradigm - it would be wise if Microsoft can Open-Source its CShell to OEM partners who can innovate on their own UI - Just like Google, Microsoft should be a flexible OS provider for mobile OEMs OEMs should push their marketing Android Microsoft should enable android apps on windows natively apk files should run on windows 10 if it requires google play let google, app developer, consumers fight for it if the apk files doesnt require google play well it should run fine Microsoft SHOULD NOT consider android as a google's platform 100% of app developers on android are app developers thats where microsoft should penetrate
I don't think consumers and developers don't have any trust left when it comes to Microsoft and their mobile + UWP efforts. It's over. If you think after so many and many attempts that suddenly everything will finally change you live in a dreamworld. Just like the office and dekstop market settled on Windows and Office for decades, the market has settled on Android and iOS when it comes to mobile computing for the next decades. Also back in the day was software you bought on a CD-ROM or disk. But since the mobile revolution people spend money in "the ecosystem". I bought many apps, games etc. People their workflow and sync is built around cloud and service integration for photos, bookmarks, mails, calendar (iCloud on iOS, Play Services on Android) that are built deep within each respective platform. You don't just go buy something else and start buying everything from scratch and use different services because they are better integrated in your new device their OS. It's way too late for that. Stop acting desperate and face reality.
A new reset will mean that they admit that UWP was a bad ida. And is it a bad ida? I don't think so. The fact that Microsoft will not tell you anything about where they are going, is because that will only benefit competitors, and make the splash smaller when Microsoft releas their next "mobil" splash. (If that is as Surface device or something quit different, is to be seen.) I understand that thouse of you that work for Windows Central have to write something to get paid. But Microsoft does so many things so there should be plenty to write about, without writing more speculations on "Windows Phone". So could you all now stop writing about Windows on phones untill after \\build 2017? Thank you.
Yeah it seems the only "editorials" they can write is about failed phones. MS does many noteworthy things that are very succesfull and could have interesting articles about. But no it's all phone phone phone phone phone. All other MS sites focus way less on phones these days. Even guys like Thurrot and Foley who make their money with writing about MS stuff only mention mobile in the last sentence of an article or editorial.
Would it be a bad idea for Microsoft to provide "Android - Microsoft edition" images for all Lumias? Make our wondferful hardware useful for a change? Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Microsoft fan, still using a 950 as my (only) phone. But it's getting harder and harder to survive with it as the single device to be always online and do business with.
People I think you don't get the idea.. Just think what does windows 10 mobile need??
What's the difference from android and ios??
It's just the apps.. Microsoft is not making it worthy for developers to write apps for it's mobile platform.. They're not encouraging them and not giving them support, in fact they're drawing them back..
If they continued with project Astoria and islandwood instead of ditching them they would have solved a big problem and in fact it might have been a huge push in the market for their phones.
Maybe if they could learn some basics and even steal some ideas of android and ios and using them in their os instead of their blind ego and pride, it might have make a difference..
A few tweaks can make the actual os that you have very successful.. Instead of focusing and wasting a lot of time on useless features that nobody will ever use..
60 fps better and faster transitions, more permissions without risking the safety.. Maybe focusing more on the look and everyday normal usage features that a normal person would find handy..
I mean android is a platform for stupid people and that's why is very successful.. Because everyone can use it..
You need to make it suitable for all kinds of people..
Difference from iOS and Android: Android runs an open source Linux kernel and its own system on top. iOS runs the Darwin kernel, which is based om BSD. Windows runs on Microsoft s own kernel, completely different systems, including the apps. Your argument of Android being for stupid people simply doesnt hold water since Android is alot more customizable then Windows ever has been. Otherwise I get the idea.
Learn from android and ios for **** sake
I'm cool with it so long as it keeps the current apps running without modification......kinda like how the 8.1 apps continues to run on 10.
If Microsoft abandoned Windows Phone and instead developed their own version of Android but with a Windows Phone "skin" I would buy that. The style and functionality of WP but with the apps of Android sounds like a perfect phone to me.
While I hate the idea of another reset, I love the idea of full windows on a phone. Sure having desktop software isn't conceivably a game changer, but what is possibly a game changer is having win 32 apis, so that developers can easily adapt an existing desktop interface to mobile and recompiliing to native arm64 for more performance. This could really bring alot of power apps to windows (in your pocket?) With in a short time we could conceivable have a ton of native arm64 implimentations of Open Source projects like GIMP and ATOM and with a little more work, they could even have adapatable interfaces. I'm sure enterprises will take a bit longer, but I have no doubt that Adobe will have Native Arm64 of their cloud suite in short order and possibly with adaptable interfaces (They already have some that adapt to pen and touch)
It depends on what you mean by phone reset. If they are able to upgrade the current phones to the new OS and the new OS is not less feature filled (since it seems like we keep taking steps back) then this would completely kill the off the devoted fans trust. (Most likely myself included.) If the reset meant - a new interface (hopefully aligned the video that's been going around of what Windows Phone could be) then great. I just think the upgrade path should be really well planned. It's not very inspiring to purchase a new device that most likely has 0 apps and will need to fight for growth from the beggining. If they already have few developers supporting the current phone it's not going to be a new platfomr that will change that. Unless of course the new Windows just runs iOS or Android apps from inception.
Yes, bad idea. Go watch Iphone and Android commercials first and see how it's done.
I guess in what capacity would a reset occur. I mean a complete reset seems implausible due to the foundation of UWP applications have across the entire whole of Microsoft's ecosystem. If anything, for WP only, I could see a reset of non UWP applications, meaning that Microsoft will possible tell devs either update or it will be removed, could be more plausible. In terms of WP generally, I don't know how they could do that. Maybe give mobile devices that get RS3 X86 support for continuum while the phone runs UWP apps only? I mean if anything that what seems plausible for me if Microsoft determines to keep WP10 as a form of anything. Or if the Microsoft variant of the Samsung S8 is an indication maybe they could make X86 support be plausible for Android phones that sell through them. I mean ARM support is incoming but generally, who knows.
Apple realized that a phone/tablet is not a laptop/desktop. Google realized the same and we have Android on phone/tablet and ChromeOS on laptop (desktop soon?). Different needs mean different hardware requirements. Microsoft needs to abandon the idea of enforcing a full OS into a phone/tablet, nobody wants that besides a very tiny niche, they just do not listen to their users.
I don't agree. Full windows on a surface type tablet is a perfect solution for all occasions and efficiently replaces a laptop and desktop. I wouldn't put tablets in the same category as phones though. Full windows on a tiny screen has no appeal to me.
Wasn't the "Samsung S7 Microsoft Edition" the reset...?
Still waiting for a Surface Phone ?
Not hope till Nadella s stay there....
I've been on the Microsoft mobile platform since my iPAQ running Pocket PC 2000. I've stuck it out for a long time. 17 years later I had do make a decision - do I upgrade to a new Windows device or do I move on. I decided to move on. I picked up an iPhone. It was an agonizing decision - I love the Windows Phone platform and so far the Windows Mobile appears to be light years ahead in of convenience, ease of use, and basic functionality. I'm not a fan of my new iPhone, but when it came time to decide whether to invest in another Windows Phone or move on, I just couldn't get past Microsoft's seeming disinterest in letting us know if the Windows Mobile platform has a future. If I believed that Microsoft was truly committed to the future of this platform, I'd probably stick it out. But quite frankly we seem to be met with deafening silence. I suspect Microsoft has a plan - but when it came time to invest in a new device I just couldn't do it. Not without some level of confidence that it would be worth it. So far I'm unimpressed with the iPhone. The fanboys obviously have never used a Windows device. I really do hope that when it's time for my next device Microsoft has finally made a commitment one way or the other. In the meantime, I can now do my banking and invoicing on my phone. iPhone is a crappy device, but at least I know they are in it for the long haul.
Millions of people , fans and business people are using Windows 10M worldwide , people still buy lumias , and other W10 OEM phones , is just that not that many . So finally , the OS itself is competitive , after so many delays . We all know the real problems , lack of new Apps , poor app support for one . Non existant marketing and poor carrier support for two , loser image . And at the origin it was missing the mobile revolution by few years . So either Microsoft spend a couple of billions to finance devellopers , launch a marketing campaign and subsidize mobile carriers or it doesn't. Resetting the OS won't help .
X
Microsoft made me do it. https://buy.gazelle.com/buy/used/iphone-6-plus-64gb-at-t
I'm okay I guess... Hehe. As long as it doesn't lag after 3 years, syncs with PC and cloud easily, secure and apps... Apps story will never end. But looking forward to a success. Good luck!
Nobody complained when new OSes came out with every new release about 15 years ago. Thinking about the first Nokia phones. Nowadays technology is updating with such a fast pace that I think most people change phones at least every second year. By Christmas the Lumia 950 is over 2 years old. So I see no problems in getting a new OS!!
Microsoft mobile efforts consist of this
- Hey we should do a reboot of our mobile OS, new dev tools, new apps, forget the past. But won't that alienate 3rd party developers and our customers who invested in the platform? No, of course not, we're Microsoft they will stick with use whatever. 2 years later - Hey we should do a reboot of our mobile OS, new dev tools, new apps, forget the past. But won't that alienate 3rd party developers and our customers who invested in the platform? No, of course not, we're Microsoft they will stick with use whatever. 2 years later - Hey we should do a reboot of our mobile OS, new dev tools, new apps, forget the past. But won't that alienate 3rd party developers and our customers who inveted in the platform? No, because all the devs already left for other platforms, and we've driven all our customers away. - Oh, ok. Shall we try the education market instead then?
Consider this as MS strategy - move W10 to ARM devices within the Education / low cost Mobile PC market - see how sales go and how it competes with Chromebooks in this space. If this is reasonably successful, you then launch a new W10 phone platform, marketed as "the same W10 on your PC", an it will truly be this. You then avoid the development issue, you don't need advertisements such as Google does to port / bring Android apps to ChromeOS. I think we will see a resurgence in 1 - 2 years following the ARM launch. If it did, an reached 10% Market Share, with a large % of that in Enterprise / business, MS will consider that successful, and I think I would agree.
I had gone form window phone 730 to 640XL yesterday & got the cumulative update 14393.1066, shall I eligible to get creator update ?? At present I had problems with this build i.e. photos app has not open !! hence I had used file explorer again & again, some office app also stuck up to very slow like excel PP, word etc...!!! When shall I get the new OS build as this has a lot more problems plz help
True, it would be suicidal to leave the mobile market, but MS has already done that. Windows mobile is dead, MS just kept the corpse hooked up to its update machine to make people believe it's still alive. So would a Windows phone reset help? I don't think so. The software Windows phone respectively Windows mobile 10 was actually pretty good, but wasn't developed properly because MS failed to invest the necessary time, money and manpower. The hardware was great too and the Lumia 950 was probably the best Smart phone at the time, if it hadn't been for the fact that its software was still unfinished and bug ridden at the time of its release. This amassment of incompetence killed the whole project, which had actually been going places up to then with double digit market shares in many European countries. And instead of taking the Lumia 950 fiasco as a reason to shape up MS rather decided to ship out, so now you have an operating system within zero point something market share and practically no hardware to go along with it. Nowadays people owning a Windows phone are plagued by extinction and 9 out of 10 people don't even know anybody who has a Windows phone. More and more companies are withdrawing their Windows phone apps and UWP doesn't seem to want to catch on. So a “reset” can’t really help under these circumstances, because the old product was basically good and its lack of success is entirely due to management mistakes. A new Windows mobile would still suffer from lack of third-party apps and it would be hard to find a reason for consumers and manufacturers alike to jump to this new platform considering that 99% of all people are totally satisfied with android and IOS. On top of that, with a long history of discontinued unsuccessful platforms (Windows phone7, 8 and now 10) people would be even more careful to touch anything new from Microsoft. Furthermore , the failure of its own mobile operating system has forced Microsoft to offer its moneymakers (MS Office etc.) on the other successful mobile operating systems, giving consumers, who like these MS products, even less reason to go back to a MS mobile operating system.
Bad!!
Given where we are now, I don't see Microsoft having any option other than doing a complete re-launch of Windows Phone, with a substantial marketing budget backed by people who know how to market products to consumers, which Microsoft has never had for Windows Phone before.
I'm so sick and tired of having to find a work around for stuff on windows phone. I powered up my old note 3 today for my wife to use as a mp3 player with Bluetooth so she can listen to her music on the go, (she currently has a S6 edge with no sd card support). I also gave her my 64GB sd card as my 950xl still won't recognise it, so it is of no use to me at the moment. I remembered how easy it is to get your music from Amazon using their app, (I didn't have to download it to my windows tablet as a zip file and then Bluetooth it to the note 3, unlike my 950).
Don't get me wrong, theirs a lot of things I like about my 950, the start screen, live tiles and the camera, to name but a few. However, my god am I sick and tire of apps that don't get updated, are slow and buggy, (at the moment there are 610 comments on this thread and I cant see a single one on my windows phone.
I think I'm done with my windows phone experience. When it's time to upgrade, I think it's back to Samsung for me, hopefully without an exploding battery.
You can reply if you like but I dunno if I'll ever get to see it on this phone. ☹
For years I have used Microsoft mobile products, from my Compaq Ipaq pocket computer (This version of Windows was dropped), to my Lumia 800 (Windows 7.5, upgraded to 7.8 and dropped), then to my Lumia 925 (Windows 8, upgraded to Windows 8.1 and dropped) and now talk of my Lumia 950 (Windows 10 could possibly be dropped). At one point you say " it's not like anybody's phone is going to stop doing the things it did before the new version came out", but my Lumia 925 cannot use any of the major apps now, because they are only made for Windows 10 and last year I talked my wife into purchasing a Microsoft mobile and she decided to get a Lumia 530 so she could keep in touch with the family over Facebook and Messenger. Facebook Messenger was discontinued and no longer works on any system below Windows 10 and informs you to install the latest version of Facebook to continue to message people, but the latest version of Facebook is for Windows 10, so you can't even update the app. This means we both have Lumia phones that cannot be used for the purpose they where purchased, but my wife feels she has totally wasted her money and is very annoyed. I am annoyed that I purchased the Lumia 925 flagship mobile and 18 months after purchasing they made the decision to forget about all the people who owned them, by not allowing us to install Windows 10. The Lumia 925 as most users will know is far more advanced than some of the later Windows 10 mobiles, so is able to use Windows 10, but Microsoft don't care. I have always stuck with Windows phone and said I would never change to Android or iOS, but I cannot afford to struggle paying for a mobile from Microsoft, that will be dumped by them 9 -18 months later, when other manufacturers are still providing apps and updates years later. Surely Microsoft can see they are losing users by doing this and they don't even have to open their eyes. If Microsoft dump my phone again, then I dump them, even though it's the last thing I want to do. The only way to keep me, if they do decide to reset the OS again, is by providing at least 50% cashback or the new phone for 50% or less of the retail cost. Ian
W10 deserve a chance. It's better then every thing there is, and was in the mobile world.
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My goodness, where to start? Like many of you, I have used a Windows phone dating back to the Dell x51v PDA days and Windows Mobile 5.x and to this day if I had a choice I'd still prefer a stylus over my finger. I saved my pennies and got the T-Mobile HTC Wing and Windows Mobile 6.x, and later I purchased the HTC Titan and Windows Phone 7.x and this is when all this crap with Microsoft saying one thing and doing another started. I begrudginly came around to why a reset was done for Windows Phone 8.x, we skipped 9 altogether because God forbid that would confuse us with Windows 95, 97, 98 and so forth and we were introduced to "Windows 10 Mobile" not Windows Mobile 10 and I feel like I'm caught up in this perfect vicious little circle where there is some think tank somewhere in Microsoft fairlyland just having a blast making us look like fools here. I love the platform, I like being different and for what I use my mobile phone for it's perfect. I'm not about to speak on behalf of those of you who it's about the apps except to say, "Get a life!" My God, how many apps are enough? That said, by God the ones that all platforms use, I expect to work flawlessly and three of them don't and that's what pisses me off about Microsoft - Skype, Facebook, and Facebook Messenger; two that every damn one of us use. Tack on a YouTube app that doesn't go dead when I turn my display off. I love the platform and what I can specifically do with my device and that is play music and video files from Pin to Start on Edge though for everything else, I still use Opera Mobile or some variation of it that works on my device. What gets me fired up is I use the HTC One M8 for Windows - a device more than capable of running Windows 10 Mobile and for the life of me I don't get their decision to discontinue it when we're all mimicking whatever carrier has the Lumia devices so we can at least keep our radios updated. I'm using 10.0.15063.332 mimicking a Lumia 735 on Straight Talk (Verizon). I bought a baby laptop for college and those of us who have been with Windows Phones since long after we stopped seeing our shrinks pacifying everybody who think we've lost our damn minds using this platform; that's the beauty of it. My 10 inch Acer is like an extension of my phone except it doesn't have a "phone" radio in it but hell, do we really need to make phone calls the traditional way with VoLTE and VoIP apps. Give me that "data" radio and it's all good! It would be nice if Microsoft would listen to it's core diehard users; I mean really listen to those of us who have stuck with them through hell and high water. I'm not going to sit here and trash Android and iOS; no! They have their place in the mobile universe and I own the HTC One M7 DE my forrmer wife dropped twice; it doubles for my GPS and I've got a Samsung Galaxy S3 that doubled for a GPS back in its hey day but I've been too lazy to replace the battery. If you're wondering about HTC devices; they were easily flashable. I don't mind a reset at this point simply because, what's left; the Lumia 950XL/950 and the HP Elite that is a gazillion bucks? I can find a new HTC One M8 for Windows for under a hundred bucks; why pay top dollar for one of these other phones when Microsoft changes their mind every other day? I just want Microsoft to stand for something and stand on it; not this they do today. Those of us commenting here; we're as loyal as loyal gets; it be nice if that was rewarded. I don't know anymore. A part of me wants to buy the new Motorola Play Z which is dirt cheap over on Verizon and simply install a Windows skin that allows me to create "photo" tiles and call it a day. Maybe that's what they should name their new line of phones, assuming that do just that...the "RESET whatever".

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