Lumia 520

Windows Phone hitting 8% sales across Europe and explosive growth in Mexico, but still struggles in the US

Kantar Worldpanel's latest numbers shows rapid growth for Windows Phone sales in various markets, but slight dips in China and only modest growth in the US

Windows Phone is still making steady progress in Europe, according to latest data published by Kantar Worldpanel. The platform has leaped to grab 8.2 percent of sales across Europe in the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

Unfortunately, the same can't be said for progress in the US, but there's still progress and Microsoft is growing its share of the market in terms of device sales.

With the 8.2 percent in mind across five European markets in the three months to July this year, Windows Phone was at 4.9 percent the same time in 2012. iOS accounted for 17.9 percent of sales, up from 14.8 percent and Android reached for the 69.1 percent ledge, climbing from 66.2 percent. BlackBerry remains on its downhill slide, falling from 6.7 percent last year to just 2.4 percent.

Kantar Worldpanel - July 2013 Windows Phone Share by country

  • Germany: 8.8% (+2.6% YoY)
  • GB:  9.2% (+5% YoY)
  • France:  11% (+7.4% YoY)
  • Italy:  7.8% (-0.5% YoY)
  • Spain:  1.8% (+0.1% YoY)
  • USA: 3.5% (+0.5% YoY)
  • China: 2.4% (-2.2% YoY)
  • Australia: 7.4% (+2.4% YoY)
  • Mexico: 12.5% (+10.5% YoY)

The biggest and most impressive individual gains were seen in Mexico (12.5%) and France (11%) where double digit Windows Phone sales figures were finally reached. 

As we've covered before, a large portion of the numbers for Windows Phone come from feature phone owners who are looking to upgrade to smartphones and aren't interested in paying out premiums or investing in affordable handsets with performance issues. This is where the Lumia 520 comes in, going for less than 100 euros in multiple markets. AdDuplex previously noted in reports how the Windows Phone is taking off.

Source: Kantar Worldpanel, July 2013

Dominic Sunnebo, global consumer insight director at Kantar, had the following to comment on the report:

"Windows Phone's success has been in convincing first time smartphone buyers to choose one of its devices with 42 percent of sales over the past year coming from existing featurephone owners. This is a much higher proportion than Android and iOS. The Lumia 520 is hitting a sweet spot, offering the price and quality that new smartphone buyers are looking for."

It's certainly a demographic Nokia has been looking to tap into since the company joined forces with Microsoft back in 2011


Lumia 1020

Not the same story everywhere

While Microsoft and co. are slowly climbing up in Europe and beyond, it's the US where progress remains slow but steady. The platform has snapped up 3.5 percent of sales, up just 0.5 points from last year. This is despite multiple mobile operators taking hardware and promoting them with "hero status."

The Lumia 1020 launched in late July though those numbers were not included here. Regardless, it's the more affordable Windows Phones like the Lumia 520 and Lumia 521 that pique the interest from consumers. Indeed, the Lumia 520 (AT&T GoPhone) was not counted in these numbers as well due to it launching at the end of July.

According to Kantar's data, Apple increased its share to 43.4 percent of sales in the three months with a growth of 7.8 percentage points. In contrast, Android fell from 58.7 percent to 51.1 percent of US sales. Another bleak story is for BlackBerry, who fell from 1.9 percent to 1.2 percent year on year. China, much like the US, is a difficult market for Windows Phone to establish itself, which fell from 4.6 percent last year to 2.4.

In conclusion, while Windows Phone still struggles a bit in the hyper competitive US market, it has shown explosive growth in numerous countries, including Mexico, France and Great Britain. With a range or price points and various carriers deals locked in, Nokia appears to be dominating the show right now for Windows Phone as a platform, a story which we expect to continue for the rest of 2013.

Source: Kantar, via: ZDNet


Reader comments

Windows Phone hitting 8% sales across Europe and explosive growth in Mexico, but still struggles in the US



I hope they catch in features too and don't ditch us like WP 7. (Although WP 7 get update but still it is far from being a smartphone)

Seriously, i loved this and the graphs were interesting especially the graph that showed in some areas wp8 is cathcing up to apple . But then again i love my winows phone and would like to see it gain second place in popularity over apple. With the latest results posted by nokia they seem to be getting more of the US market too which shows how when people see them they want them, damn i have three freinds that own iphones and absolutly love my windows phone and are tempted to buy one the next time they come to upgrade.

I dunno.  Objectively speaking, it is Windows Phone that "sucks."  There are still simply too many essential things that this OS can't do, and there has been almost zero unequivocally forward progress since NoDo.
For intance, while my L920 can do some basic multitasking, my NoDo Arrive could open and edit .DOC files, had wireless syncing and FM radio, and had a forward button in my browser.  When my Arrive got Mango, I got the multitasking but lost the ability to open .DOC files, lost the forward button in my browser and lost the ability to search on the Web page.  As MS giveth, they also keep taking away...oftentimes vital features.
Android keeps getting better and better.  Windows Phone keeps not getting better.  We need to see real, and marked, progress in Windows Phone's basic capabilities before it can ever hope to compete in the marketplace against Android, which can do...well, everything.

So the article says Apple with its hardware obsolescent phones picked up share in the USA and Android, which keeps getting better and better, lost share. I don't know about you, but UC browser is excellent and has a forward button. IE has the ability to search a webpage. And basic Office is included on my phone. FM radio is coming or here, I will give you wireless syncing. And I am a 920 owner. Go back to Android please. Don't ruin the experience for everyone else. I recommend a S4 Zoom, fits in your pockets, looks great!

Yep. Windows Phone isn't all that great. I think I love the Nokia hardware more than the OS itself. Sorry but that's just my opinion. I really wish we could get Android on our Lumias. Shame that such a beautiful phone is wasted on such an underwhelming OS.

All I hear from critics is how much WP is lacking but I never hear exactly how. Why don't you tell how WP doesn't work for you?

Maybe instead of complaining that out dated formats aren't supported buy an out dated system you need to move along. .doc has been gone for for almost 7years. Mobile office can view but not edit these documents, But can edit .docx just fine. Update you office program and your OS while your is while you are at it. I simply do not understand why anyone adopted wp7 when Microsoft announced at the out set it would not be compatible with WP 8 and nit developed further once WP8 was released.

Agreed although, I bought a Lumia 900 last year from my wife's carrier because mine (Bell) doesn't offer any WPs.  I can't afford a 920 yet which Rogers offers, but will get one maybe end of year.  Back to my 900, I still use it throughout the day and it does everything I need.  Are there features, I'd like it to have? Sure, but all in all I'm very happy with it.

Well, I can edit these docs on mu android phone using third party apps, yet can't I on my WP using office.

When did Microsoft explain that WP7 wouldn't be upgradable to WP8? That's bullshit because it came as complete shock to everyone.

Good grief, that horse came and went a looooong time ago. The upgrade is a new phone. Get a Lumia 520/521 if cost is an issue.

"Android keeps getting better and better." When you start as garbage it's pretty easy to slowly improve. I'll never go back to Android, regardless of how much better it gets (and it needs to get a lot better for it to even be passable). I've used all the mobile operating systems and Windows Phone is easily the best one: intuitive, easy to use, lightning fast, SkyDrive and Office integration--for free--and Xbox games to boot. 'Tis a no brainer.

You forget one important thing.  Smooth and modern looking user interface.  Xbox Music, while still cooking, is a cloud player that works across all MS platforms.   Works well on the hardware it has... I'd say people buy WP8 smartphones because they can get a unified experience across the entire lineup.  They can get the premium experience of a 920 in a 520.  Personally I'm glad to see people embracing the new OS.  Hopefully in the next few years we can start threatening Apple's market share.  
I doubt we'll ever reach a large market in the US... there really isn't much room with Android and iOS duking it out. 

Well, I for one did that because of the Nokia hardware. So far my music experience on the Lumia range has been a terrible let down. I've had some tags being unregognised when I transfer my music on my phone. Worst, the some becomes a lot when I try doing so from anything else than Windows.

I think the simplicity of Windows Phones and the lacking of all that shit you can do in android is where it´s beauty is. There are some things that WP needs and should have gotten yesterday rather than in a couple of months. But those changes are arriving.
Android is just messy from its own nature... every option you open has like 45 sub options. Everything you do has the potential to be something that someone else is doing. Every manufacture adds and takes and changes and rapes and and and...
It´s not a negative thing if have a lot of time or you are willing to spend a lot of time changing the 10000 options you get. I don´t have the time nor would like to have the time for such shit.
I want to buy a phone and start using it and know where everything is. I don´t want to buy a phone I don´t find what I am looking for because it is simply full... or a phone I have to read through 30 options to find just a simple on...
So it is relative, some people like it clean, simple and to the point... Others like it full, conplex and to have options just in case you might use them once in years (just before you don´t need to know anymore because you are getting a new smartphone where the interface is completely different)...
So it is not better and better that it is getting... it is fuller and fuller (of shit)

After playing with wife's S4 I can tell you Android is frickin horrible. This is a quad core 1.9gz but as I scrolled through her caller list the scrolling us anything but smooth-sticky and sputtering while trying to flick from top to bottom. Same with several apps I played around with-laggy and glitchy.
All I see is a UI that is stale and boring like the iPhone and it is pretty much a rip off of the iPhone anyway.
Yeah WP has some shortcomings (not for me though) but not impressed with Android one bit.

I agree word for word. Basic functionality missing such as a forward button on the browser or the ability to close apps in the multitasking view (which is available in iOS, Android, Symbian and MeeGo). This is coming from an owner of a Lumia 800 then 920. I want to like it and WP8 was a definite step up from WP7 but not nearly enough. Focus more on the basics and less on gimmics like Kids Corner. Who actually uses that?

What do you mean you have lost the ability to search on page ? Just choose the feature from the three dot pull up menu "Find on page" Also I have no issues opening.doc files?

Also the statement that windows phone just gets less functional is clearly not correct. Features may come and go but the net effect is always an increase in functionality. The latest GDR2 and Amber updates added a raft of functions, upgraded and new apps. Just take a look at the list.

+1, but the Windows Phone Team really need to get it up a notch, "Shut up and ship" is not exactly what they do, they neither talk a lot nor do they ship. Just how much time did it take for GDR2 to arrive on every phone? I know of unbranded Lumia 920s that got their update a couple of days ago. There is no excuse for that, sorry. My Surface RT gets updated almost every week. And GDR3 is half a year away again. Sometimes I really do wonder what the WP8 Team is doing all the time.

Your Surface can get updates every week because there isn't a carrier in the way. Ask your carrier why it took them so long to release GDR2, because Microsoft released it months ago.

For Now WP sucks more because MS is not listening and not providing most demanded features like File-Manger.
Instead they provide those feature which hardly anyone want.
and what I always listen is they are coming in next update. But there is on next.

WP does lack some silly things that most would think should always be there.

Rotation lock, notification centers, and ability to close apps from the multitasking window among others, although those are three of the biggest.

Along with its bugs like other storage. On the other hand, we are getting all three of those (nonessential but certainly expected) features this year or early next.

I don't believe windows phone is significantly better than iOS or android... I certainly like it more and think it does things better in some ways, worse in others, but to call it dead is silly. It might not be unequivocally better, but it certainly isn't worse.

To put it in the words of a writer from maybe Engadget, its the "best operating system that nobody uses" :P

I swear, some of you won't be happy until Windows Phone fully reverts back to Windows Mobile.

Just because another OS has something doesn't mean it's worth having.

Don't forget some super simple stuff:   Custom email and text message tones.  Why don't we have that?  Or low power bluetoooth?  My 920 has the hardware, where is the support?

What do you mean with "File-Manager"? I have what I would call File management capability on my  WP. 

Direct file access is useful for managing email attachments for example. Wp8 doesn't have this feature. I love my 920, but there are holes. The game selection is overpriced, dated, and mostly terrible. Microsoft lost a great opportunity to leverage the Xbox name at the outset. We finally get a mobile halo experience, and its mediocre at best. The platform should have launched with a boatload of exclusive titles.

all the baltic ciuntries (finland, lithuania, letonia, and estonia) have a bigger percentade of wp than ios! Here almost all of the people i know owns a lumia. And we love it

Right? Pretty amazing how half a year ago the discussion was 'Could WP hold on to 3rd place'. By now BB is not even in the picture anymore. 

I wish for more apps and "HERE" support in Israel. Alot of people are amazed by my Lumia but I think they afraid from changes.

Israel is a gorgeous country. Phones are pricier but I wouldn't say they're crazy. But it does take a little longer to get the latest and greatest. But nowadays you can import easily. I travel between NY & Israel and I always purchase my phones while I'm in the US. I'm using an unlocked Lumia 920 from Rogers [T-Mobile USA]

Its growing even if it's slow going. I just remember the articles from a couple years back of people saying it was DOOMED and DOA. Morons, all of them. Gotta hand it to Nokia because I truly believe they saved Microsoft's bacon. ;)

Here's to continued growth!

and do you think Nokia did the partnetship for free? im sure Microsoft is paying alot of money for that :)
and you say "nokia saved Microsofts bacon" well... im sure thats the same with Android, without samsung Android wouldnt be as popular as it is now. so yeah, so in the end google and microsoft only make the OS, without oems there wouldnt be anything special on them.
of course the decision of ballmer and Elip to make a partnetship with Nokia turned out to be good, because Nokia went WP exclusively, and WP is becoming more popular, since samsung and htc and lg didnt do anything for WP. anyway nokia makes better phones than any WP oem that we had before, so it was a good move from nokia and microsoft.

Yebba! When the 1080ps come, newer processors, better multitask, separate ringtones, notifications, etc. Hopefully background images like windows RT and w8.

GDR3 will be out by November on new hardware (which will be announced end of Sept). You're confusing it with Windows Phone 8 .1 due early next year.

How can you be so sure? They "ran out of time" back when WP 8 was released and here we are 11 months later and still nothing.

No NDA. Seriosuly, that term is thrown around way too often. MS does not show off aspects of the OS this early on to the media.

Regarding public list, we have snuck some unannounced features into posts here and there. If you're clever you can find them. 8.1 has not been locked down yet, so publicly listing all the features is not helpful.

GDR2 hasn't even been fully released in the US. AT&T is still dragging their butt on releasing the update to 920's for some reason. Who knows I'd they will ever release GDR3. But we can't blame Microsoft for AT&T's arrogance and greed.

I was gonna say the same thing. Microsoft could release gdr3 today and with att I wouldn't get it till I upgrade my phone in a 18months.

At&t was the first to bring the L920 and the last to provide gdr2/Amber. At this rate we will probably get it when 8.1 blue comes in Feb.

I live in the United States and a lot of my friends are impressed with my 920. The issue for them us that they are still locked in to the phones they have until their contracts with their carriers expire. I wonder if the non- contractual business model in Europe is making it easier to switch and helping to springboard growth?

that's what I assumed as soon as I read the headline of the article. Not to mention carrier exclusivity deals is such a thing of the past & seems to only hurt overall sales growth.

To be fair, the non contractual model is just alive and well in the US. Nobody wants to go out and pay full price for a phone, the price of a PC or a couple bills, in the US as they do in Europe.

It's not the same. You can drop your monthly bill in Europe by a huge amount if you bring your own unlocked phone, whereas BYO discounts in North America are piddly (often only 10%).

Depends on where you go. Prepaid and by extension TMobile ate much like the European model. Version and AT&T though? Nope.

I paid 300€ for my unlocked Lumia 820 and I currently pay 7.5€ / month at Vodafone PT for unlimited sms, mms and calls + 300mb internet.
How much do u all pay for that in US to get a Lumia 820 for free? 50$ month on contract for 2 years? Do the math.

i paid 299eur for my 920 and 230eur for my moms 820. Both unlocked. I picked up a contract in vodafone for 20eur/month and that includes 2gb of 4g lte!

Signing a 2 year contract for a freaking phone sounds ancient, most people I know just bought their phone at retail, there is just too many advantages (cheaper, simpler and way more flexible).
Could be anecdotal though.

Two of the largest carriers in the US do not give discounts when you bring your own device so in that respect there's little to no reason to do so when it means you will 'save' $400-500 up front.

Based on this Nokia should see around 10 - 12 Million Nokia Lumia shipments thanks to the Lumia 520 and Lumia 625.

I'm interested in the large decline in Android sales in the US as shown above. I've always thought the constant weekly barrage of some new Android device from Samsung and the others had to be confusing for consumers who see the ads and then pop into the local carrier store and say they want "that Droid Note Galaxy phone that my friend has that I saw on TV." Then when shown several very similar, confused feature set devices, they either give up or say "Just sell me the iPhone." We need to get them to say "or the Windows Phone" at that point.
I am interested in other theories about the drop in Android sales in the US, but I think market clutter and confusion is a big part of it.

Nokia should give the US the low end phones and bring their top devices to markets where they sell the most. The US market is becoming a money pit and is the one most hostile to WP, pointless wasting so much effort there.

Their top end devices are only available on a single, shitty, carrier in the US. Only when their next flagship is about to come out is the prior one available on other carriers. This hurts Nokia as AT&T is arguably the worst carrier in the US. Yet they get the exclusivity deals.

And yet here in the east, New York NY, Lexington KY, Huntington WV, Jacksonville FL, and Chattanooga TN, you are better off with no service than having at&t.

I have Verizon, T-Mobile and AT&T (just gave up Sprint last month) and have to disagree with this. AT&T by far as the best coverage, especially when I travel. 

I honestly don't get the hate against carriers. It depends on what works for you, but for me...AT&T is the best here in Long Island and NYC for coverage and device selection. I was not very impressed with Verizon and T-Mobile is the most affordable/best deal, though their coverage is lacking.

You speak about not understanding the hate towards carriers, yet you are one of the biggest haters of Sprint.
talk about using double standards...

I agree. I'm in N.C. and outside of them dragging updates. There service is outstanding and my 2 times at customer service was a very good experience.

The carrier zealotry isn't the reason. There are millions who don't agree with your "shittiest" conclusion.

AT&T's network is actually pretty good. Much improved in the last 10 years. Their customer service is still still horrible and winning a race to the bottom.

Don't give up on us. The 1020 has 3 issues:
1 is the price
2 exclusivity
3 upgrades

I would totally upgrade but I have to wait until 11/2014

^^ it is laughable that EU needs to wait for devices like the 1020 while they are being wasted and sit in warehouses and stores in the US.
Nokia needs to start focusing more on its domestic EU market and have the US and other less desirable markets wait for 3 months for new devices, instead of the other way round.

Actually, the problem with the US market is that your pricing artifically lower the incentives for getting a cheaper phone as the subsidies make everything cost almost the same. This is obviously one of the reasons for the high iphone market share in the US compared to here in Europe. If anyting, Nokia should continue to offer flagship models to continue to work on their image in the US *together* with bringing some budget devices that can be sold off contract with cheaper plans. Marketing something like the Lumia 720 however, is more or less a lost cause in the US as it won't be signficantly cheaper than the flagships on contract, but still quite expensive off contract.

Sure the, US is likely a loss at the moment for Nokia financially, but unfortanately, we can't afford to ignore your market as too many high profile apps are US based at the moment.

I think GDR3 should help with the top end market in the US when WP should be able to finally match android in terms of hardware. Americans always want the fastest, newest and best available in the high end market and that simply isn't on offer with WP currently. The 1020 is using a SOC that is over one and a half years old for example. Sure, it probably isn't needed so much on WP in terms of performance but it'll make a difference when things start to match up on the spec sheet. I think Nokia knows this and is why they've pushed their lower end devices so much, Microsoft is simply restricting them atm with their hardware restrictions.

Take into considerartion that the US is a big country. WP in France for instance may have 11% market share, but even with only 3.5% in the US they still sell more phones there since they have almost 5 times the population.

I think Microsoft should give out a free 520/521 for every purchase of any device with windows 8 / RT at their stores. People are just so wary of using it, so they need to shove it in people's hands and give them a taste of what the platform can really offer.

Its a win win move. If people are disappointed, well hey that's our lowest spec phone. If they are impressed, HEY HEY HEY its our lowest spec phone, would you believe that? :P

That's actually a great idea, although giving it away might send the wrong signal. But offering a 50% or even 70% discount would lure many on board.
Getting the L520 for, say, 30$ would be a steal, and tempt a lot of people.

You know what would help in the US? Simultaneously launching the devices in multiple carriers. Instead of only one carrier. In which case, by the time it comes to another carrier the new thing is right around the corner.

If Nokia had a Samsung sized advertising budget or Apple's cult-based clout, maybe they could do this. The fact is that Nokia get marketing help and in-store placement boosts only if they partner with the carrier with an exclusive. IPhone started that way on AT&T and then Verizon countered with the Droid Does campaign. They wouldn't shell out $$ to advertise a device that you can get anywhere.

Agreed. After such small growth in the US, Nokia/MS should look at these numbers and re-evaluate how much the exclusivity deals are impacting their ability to grow market share.

You just don't get it...

Exclusivity deals are the ONLY way they can these devices on the shelves in the US. If Nokia gave every carrier the 1020, none would take it (why sell a phone that their competitors sell? Then they'd have to compete on their "network" and they hate doing that).

And if they did, they wouldn't promote it (just look at Sprint's latest Windows Phones...are you impressed by their marketing?).

Nokia does exclusive deals because they get prime store locations, the carrier helps pay for the advertising and the reps get trained. Nokia is so weak in the US that they cannot use the "take or leave it" offer that Samsung and Apple get to employ.

The problem here is you assume Nokia actually has a choice. They don't. They either do exclusive deals or no deal at all. 

Why are you such a defender of Nokia and AT&T, and a strong basher of Samsung and Sprint (and every CDMA carrier refusing to take orders from NOkia)?

Explain to the entire wpcentral community why there has not been a second national CDMA carrier or even the first regional or prepaid CDMA carrier in the US market (and there are at least two dozen of them excluding the mvnos of Verizon, Sprint, and US Cellular).
i forgot, it's also Sprint's fault under your utterly flawed "theory" you have been preaching here fir over a year and a half.

Just a feeling. Many times in the past there has seemed to be a disjoint between Kantar numbers and Nokia quarterly report.

How about the fact those being far less accurate than the Gartner Group numbers which do not only focus on major carriers.

No one else is concerned by these numbers? 3 yrs after WP7, and MS has shown no growth in US marketshare. Even more worrying, it has failed globally in getting consumers to switch from Android or iOS. Capturing 10% of first-time smartphone buyers means 90% are still going to the other 2 platforms, and this is by definition, a shrinking market segment as smartphones become the norm. Unless MS can get consumers to start switching in large numbers, WP is doomed to sub-10% market share.

I'm a big fan of WP, but it's been all Nokia so far. MS needs to wake up and start pulling its weight.

Cannot express my concerns better. I think the main problem is that even common people want apps and Google services at this point of time, and our platform lacks both of these. I am big fan of everything Microsoft, but cannot recommend Windows Phone to people around me. I am fine with 5 apps installed on my phone and I can get around the problems with inferior maps, but this is the price other people do no want to pay for having something with MS logo on it... And even non-geeks are now educated enough to choose Google rather then Microsoft. Sad, but true, I am afraid. But I will be happy if anyone can argue my points :-)

I still think it's the app situation that's holding things back in the USA. Everyone I (yes, totally irrelevant statically) talk to wants to know about the apps. "Does it have this _____ app that I use?" and most often the answer is either no, or well there is another app that's basically the same. At that point the discussion is over.  
Once you start seeing the Windows Store logo next to the Google and Apple logos on the ads you see on TV and in print, then I think you'll start seing some serious traction. 

I agree with that completely. Until people start seeing the Windows Store logo next to Android and Apple logos, WP will be perceived as a niche, 2nd tier platform.

Totally agree. You would also assume that you can't get podcasts through Xbox Music and only through iTunes. Talk about having a killer service and no promotion.

Yes, the apps are big deal and while many will claim that WP now has many of the top apps found on other phones, It still doesn't mean squat when many of those are half ass. Take flixter, for example, good app but I can't watch my digital copies of movies I've bought. Facebook, yelp, etc.. All sucked for the longest before recently.
To me, it's the simple stuff that's hurting WP and probably the reason I'll switch in a year. Like what? Let's see... I receive an email, I check it on my phone and it's something in want to print... Guess what? Can't! I want to add a digital copy from a bluray I bought. Can't! Surely I can rent a movie on my phone, right? Wrong! I record a video and now I want to edit, nope can't do unless you have Nokia phone (although that app might be available for everyone now but not sure).
Apps? I bank with capital one and no app. My car insurance co. has an app but not for WP. I start my morning with Starbucks... Let pull my phone and pay using the app... Nope, can't do. CVS, no real app.
The list could go on and on. The things that matter to me are not there for me. It doesn't have to be about having the top 100 apps. It matters what apps are available for You! The apps or features that make your life easier. Something as simple as printing from my phone can be a game changer.
Anyhow, I've been with WP for two years. I've had the 900, 920 and now 1020. Unless a maaaaajor update comes out, I think im going to go back to a phone that makes my life a little easier. A phone that's built around me, lol... Not even the slogan works for WP.. Sigh.

People just refuse to give Windows a chance in the states and china, well I'm sure that's Samsung or something else. I guess we're getting 1 person at a time at that pace don't know if we'll ever catch up with the big boys.

That's ok.. The US is always last with the latest technology.. Americans are stubborn.. Once the US catches on its over with..

This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard today. Average consumers couldn't tell you what "GDR2" or "Amber" even is, let alone be upset that it's a few weeks behind.

Do you know who cares about updates? Nerds and phone geeks. Sorry, but it's the truth.

Daniel, I thought you would have realized by now that one's personal gripe is always the cause of all problems for something! ;)

Phone geek here and I agree Dan. IMO Amber/GDR2 isn't anything to get excited about. For me though Windows Phone ONLY needs custom notification tones. After that everything else is a bonus but that's just my opinion. I'm not stressing ATT with the later than others update.

Just like only the "phone geek" types care about rotation lock, file managers, and 90% of the other stuff that makes androids popular,

Daniel actually it is a big deal. Right now I won't roll out the 920 to people in my company until GDR2 comes out. Why? Because the biggest complaint in my company's pilot is that they can't listen to voicemail on our Cisco phone system. GDR2 restores proper wav format playback. So please take your consumer glasses off and think from an enterprise perspective for a minute. I need to know the phone will be supported with timely updates before we offer it.

It won't. The apps are still missing. This whole problem exists because apps that help close the gap are still not here. I'm not talking about the big popular apps. It's the smaller apps that are still not here.

I completely missed the joke! I agree! I also feel they deserve to get the next hottest Nokia Device first. I'm American and hate seeing Android and Apple phones EVERYWHERE!

While I'm thrilled to see WP grow, I wonder if the iPhone 5C will temper the explosive growth in markets where the 520 is driving sales. While I don't think Apple will price it anywhere near as cheap as the 520, it still will make a dent. There's also chatter that Google is working to make Android run much better on lower spec'd devices. Microsoft/Nokia have been lucky that Apple traditionally has been ignoring this market and that Android ran so poorly on low end devices.

I doubt this. I think the 5c is going to be priced alongside the same price as the iPhone4, which is still 450ish off contract (insane for 3 year old technology). I just know there have been a lot of complaints about the iPhone 4's terrible rear camera, and how the slow processor is getting bugged down by iOS6 and will probably be even worse on iOS7 so they'll be popping in a new processor and maybe the 4s camera? who knows. It definitely won't be under 400 off contract, just like the iPad mini came in at only 120 bucks cheaper than the regular ipad.

Elsewhere, the iPhone 5C will probably not make much difference but in the U.S., it will make a difference because the actual cost will be hidden in carrier subsidy. But as long as WP/Nokia can continue to grow well everywhere else, it will compensate for slow growth in the U.S. The U.S. market can then just become the launching pad for new WP devices because of excellent media exposure those devices can get there.

The US retail market sucks and phones somehow continue to be a status symbol. So idiot consumers continue gravitating towards the latest fad. Employees are ignorant and driven by the same fads. Management wants to sell phones that continue to be profitable post sale.

This isn't helped by the fact that Windows Phone devices are almost nonexistent outside of carrier stores. It's like the US market is especially aligned against Windows Phone.

Microsoft stores were supposed to help but I was in one last weekend and was dismayed by what I saw. The place was dead and I constantly felt like employees were reading from a script; their enthusiasm didn't seem sincere. The Lumia 1020 was at the front of the store, prominent but ignored by everybody. Meanwhile, the Apple store was packed, as usual, even though there was nothing new to see. The contrast was glaring and not good for the brand.

Wow, lets see if we continue to give our best products to one company and ignore the larger carrier we should see growth, right? Cowboys and idiots are ruining/ running Nokia. Pull your heads out of the sand!

Best products? Verizon has the Lumia 928 (great phone) and T-Mobile has the Lumia 925 (one of my favorite Lumias...ever). You can't keep trotting out the "AT&T is ruining everything!" card any longer.

The Lumia 1020 was never going to saturate the market, it's a niche phone. It's the low and mid range phones that pushing the market and those are not "exclusive" to any carrier. Why does Verizon not have the Lumia 720 (awesome phone) or why is no US carrier grabbing the Lumia 625 (another awesome phone)?

The 620, now on AT&T subsidiary, would have done wonders on other carriers and yet none grabbed it. It takes two to tango and if the US carriers are not picking up the devices, that's not Nokia's fault.

How the heck is Apple still selling so many iPhones in the US? The general population in my country is quite dumb. It's all about image. People here just default to the iPhone. It's a shame.

So why are those sales not so good outside of the US? Because it isn't a fantastic product? Same logic.

same reason the lumia is best seller in finland. people buy products from their own country, good for them! it is not unreasonable. but i still think android i weak especially at the low categories. hopefully people will see that android is not as stable.

made in china for a very fat profit for an american company which employs thousands in the usa. so yes americans should buy their products, same reason japanese buy mostly japanese and finland buy windows phone because of nokia. even though nokia now makes most of their phones in asia, butstill employ loads of people in finland.
the fact is, if finland was america then wp would have the top spot in the market. i am not trying to knock apple. i like apple just dont like their overpriced products.

I still don't believe that's why Apple does well in the US. It's purely a marketing deal, and people fall for it. If you ask anyone the reasons why they bought an iPhone, they aren't going to say because it's made by an American company.

Because they build a great product and they back up their products.  Plus they do not come up with lame excuses on why devices released less than a year old would not get WP8.
And beore I get criticized as a Sprint supporter and a Eindows Phone hater, i have a family account with Sprint that has two iPhones, an Android device, and a HTC Arrive which is being replaced by a Samsung Ativ S Neo (which has not been even reviewed on this site as of this day).

Any growth is really good particularly when you see Android losing so much share in the US. I can only assume that the on contract price drops had an impact for iOS growth. Both of which may indicate that flagship devices have reached a point of saturation in the US market. For my part, I steered my parents to Nokia 928's when they changed them to free on contract with Verizon. They were feature phone users and wanted something simple and reliable. The timing for the 5C could be fortuitous for Apple but if on contract pricing is a factor, I would assume that most 5S sales will be trade-ins from their existing user base rather than growth. To see another surge of growth, the 5C will need to hit the sweet spot for on contract entry level pricing but everything I've heard suggests that the pricing will be closer to mid-tier. If they are not able to beat existing iPhone 5 pricing with the 5C, I just don't see the 5C taking off but if they keep the iPhone 5 pricing where it is at, that may be enough for them to maintain on contract growth over Android. Apple must be cringing at the thought that both of their own products may scavenge sales from the flagship that has a much higher profit margin.

It's because the US market is still based on the idea of the "cheap" or "free" phone to go with being taken hostage for 2 years. The upfront cost here is almost the same no matter which phone you choose, so there is little incentive to get a Lumia 520 vs some crap Android that in reality costs 3x more.

People aren't dumb, they want to use the devices their family and friends use. For first time smart phone buyers, they want to be able to setup and go quickly and have help when they need it. Going with a WP or other OS requires some measure of confidence and willingness to spend time on their own learning it. Some of us assimilate easily, others do not.

WP's lower end is facing strong competition with local Android manufacturers in China, with phones around the price of Lumia 520 sporting high end specs. No matter how you call them "cheap Chinese trash", the truth is, all other platforms, including WP, are losing market share to them, because they are really aiming at the majority of consumers who want value for money

There is just no way to make a decent low-end Android phone when monsters like SGS4 struggle to move it freaking 8 core CPU and high en GPU.
That's where Windows Phone should be right now, Apple will never make a cheap phone.

People see my phone in Miami and are like wow what kind of phone is that?? They still don't know what it is.....i show them and they are like how do u use looks a bit much for people like my is key for states....i am in Miami not much local billboards or advertising like that here....

Convinced my colleague to switch from android to Windows Phone - Nokia Lumia 928, feels good:) he likes it so far, especially the camera

1. It looks like WP's sales growth is primarily fueled by the low end (52x Nokia series). That was a smart move by Nokia. BUT, Apple doesn't have a low end iOS device yet. If the rumors are true and Apple does release a low end iPhone this year, then thats a whole new ball game. A lot of buyers will get one, especially in the Emerging and Developing Markets, even if its just to own a status symbol product.
2. Imagine just how much more phones WP could have sold if they didn't leave out the 'small features' that most other smartphones have? Sometimes you can look at WP as a tasty donut. Looks nice and tasty on the outside (Live tiles, Nokia's camera, People app, Xbox games), but empty on the inside (the usual gripes with volume control, notification center, inefficient use of storage, slow app growth etc...).  Microsoft realy needs to step up the OS development growth, and go beyond playing OS catch up.

Regarding Point 1, true but no one is expecting Apple to go as low as $99 on the iPhone 5C, which is where Nokia is at with the Lumia 520. So while Apple can stave off some competition, they simply cannot go as low as Windows Phone or Android.

There's also the reality that Nokia is fully capable of pushing a direct iPhone 5C competitor through the Lumia 7xx series. Just as today's 520 is more powerful than 900, what is to stop the "730?" to have an HD screen, 1GB of RAM, PureView and a price tag of like $300-350 off-contract?
These are not the Symbian days, the iPhone 5C isn't giving Apple a disruptor.

Apple will never make a low end iPhone.
~300€ is not low end, and the iPhone 5C won't sell for less than that.

It will certainly take a lot time to penetrate into US due to iPhone adaptance. However, i am glad WP is making significant share in other regions.

I have come across quite a few people using WP phones across India. I travel a lot so i can say safely its getting accepted quite a lot.

Cheers WP8 !

When I read this story, the first thing that popped into my head was " Help us, Europe and Mexico.  You're our only hope."

Even after all this, Nokia goes ahead and releases 1020 exclusive to AT&T and in the US first, can someone explain why, nowonder they are in deep sh#t.Out in my country I used to see Samsung everywhere now I see at least 1 Nokia Lumia for every 4 smartphones. The 5/720 is selling like hot cakes, it is out of stock everywhere. I am sure all those guys shooting for S4 may choose a Lumia. I hope 1520 is sold everywhere and not exclusive to US. The release timing is right to challenge the Note III

Because in the US, windows phone is pretty non existent, meaning low demand. If a carrier misses out on the latest galaxy or iPhone, it could really jeopardize their sales. If they miss our on the latest Lumia, then no big deal, so Nokia has to play by the carriers dumb ass rules. Before the galaxy s3 or HTC one, remember all the galaxy s2 or HTC flagship variations?

I hate to say it but Nokia should support the countries they are doing better in. Where we got the 1020, 920, insert best Lumia phone here, I think other countries that are supporting Windows Phone and Nokia deserve first dibs for a change.

The reason Windows Phone is seeing such slow growth in the U.S. is simply because it's just not available at most places. If you go into a store like Best Buy, Wal-Mart, or carrier kiosks in malls you hardly seen any Windows Phones. A lot of phone buyers are very naive and simply just walk into a store (often a non-carrier store) and just see what's there and what the sales people recommend. Well, if you walk into Best Buy and you're on AT&T you have 2 options, both from last year (Lumia 920 and HTC 8x) and about 30 Android options that simply drown out the Windows Phones. If you're not on AT&T and you walk into Best Buy you have zero options (Why isn't the 928 and 925 at Best Buy!). The entire line of Lumias from 1020 down to 520 needs to be at places like Best Buy because that's how you get word of mouth going: "Hey, look at that spread over there! What kinds of phones are those?". Furthermore, while Windows Phone has a presence on the major carriers (Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, and finally Sprint), there are a ton of other regional carriers that carry a large percentage of the cellphone market in the U.S. where they either no presence or a very  underwhelming presence (e.g., U.S. Cellular, more than a year after announcing WP8 support, finally bring in the nearly 9-month-old mid-range Samsung Odyssey...are you kidding me?). It was the same problem with the launch of the Surface RT: they launched it at one store (microsoft store) of which there are only like 2-3 dozen in the entire country so no one could go check them out. Foolish.

That market of the regionals (which is mostly CDMA based) is where Microsoft has miserably failed to attract, even worse on the prepaid side where they had zero presence for WP7. Sure, the prepaid carriers and MVNOs of AT&T and MetroPCS (via TMobile's GSM based network) are getting WP8 devices, but to ignore the prepaid side on CDMA has been a major problem, greatly created by a Microsoft which has no direction on how to address it properly, and Nokia playing bully by only willing to offer the same devices on Verizon after the six month exclusivity, and refusing to use QUALCOMM manufactured CDMA radios (Nokia is still NOT TRUSTED by the vast majority of the CDMA carrier community).

Agree that this is a huge issue. And like you say, there needs to be more than one or two lonely WP phones on display in a sea of Androids - seeing one Nokia (dummy, usually, so you can't even try it out) is akin to seeing some feature phone with no apps etc.

I have a question for you guys in the US.
Is T-Mobile really that bad in the US? I was in Miami, Chicago and Wisconsin this summer and purchased a prepaid T-Mobile SIM card with 2GB data plan for my Nokia Lumia 920.
This phone works perfectly here in Europe and can get a signal in the middle of the mountains. I also had great experience with the phone while on travel in London, UK. But on T-Mobile, USA I sometimes didn’t get a signal at the Miami Beach or some other parts of Miami. Like around the Miami airport.
Chicago was quite OK I think. I don’t remember any huge problem. But Wisconsin was really bad. I had to climb a hill to get a signal.
Is there any other provider that would be better? I was at AT&T first but they said they have no prepaid data plan.

Yes, in general T-Mobile is that bad, but it can work great in certain areas. They cover large areas but the signals are often weak and fluctuating.

I don't think that Europe is a less competitive market than US,it's just that europeans are able to get their heads out of apple boxes

I don't really know the whole situation there but I'd say there is way more competition here by just looking at the contracts...
I get 1GB internet with 96,4% coverage for 6€/month and I can end the contract at will.

Comparing the situation of a friend in Florida with mine in Europe, The Netherlands, both markets are very competitive.

You're right. And we can get our heads out of apple boxes and samsung boxes is helped by the well respected, build to last, Nokia brand.

WP is not pushed or promoted in stores at all. Att has a 1020 by the front door a 920 half way down the store and a 520 in the back of the store. I like to just walk into stores and observe how they sell phones. And 9 out of 10 times the salesman skips right past the windows phone. I've seen a few customers ask about windows phone and the answer is usually " it's a really nice phone but has almost no app support" I love getting into the conversations about that point. Out of a dozen att store I've asked about the 520, only one had one in the store, the rest said they are order only. And out of all those store they thought they were locked to go phone plans, non of them knew you could just put your existing sim in and go. At best buy, they have two Wp's, a 920 and an 820 but everytime I ask about them no ones very familiar with them. Same with Car Toys, and no accessories for WP anywhere. My everyday use of the 920 helps sell it to my friends and people I meet on the street. I think the growth in the US is mostly due to WP owners promoting it. Even with all the ads the majority still doesn't know what a windows phone is. I totally agree until we start seeing a widows logo next to iPhone and Android growth will continue at this pace. I've been here since launch day of WP7 and will be to the end but is just frustrates me to no end.

But still wp has got more features in US than in Europy. Just have a look on bing search engine. I don't really understand microsoft and nokia way of making bussines and way to bring more people to wp. I think they are not able to catch google or apple, but i would like. Google and Apple are everywhere same,whatever continent.