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Bloomberg – Microsoft 'expects to make its own phones for at least the next two years'

The tech world is still reeling from today's announcement by Microsoft regarding the restructuring of its phone division. Between the costly write-down of the Nokia devices acquisition and the 7,800 layoffs, it is hard to see a silver lining in today's news. Many tech sites are going right for the jugular and proclaiming Windows Phone's death, despite the coming release of Windows 10 Mobile and new flagships this fall.

In a new article, Bloomberg BusinessWeek cites an unnamed source familiar with Nadella's plans for phone. Regardless of some expecting Windows Phone to be phased out by 2016, Microsoft will evidently stick with making phones for at least the new two years. Bloomberg's Dina Bass and Olga Kharif explain the strategy:

"The company expects to make its own phones for at least the next two years, said a person familiar with Nadella's plans who asked not to be named because the plans aren't public. Microsoft will try to play up its strengths in the markets it has chosen, such as corporate security and collaboration software for business customers.""Instead of trying to sell as many phones as possible, Microsoft will concentrate on three categories: business phones, high-end models and value phones like the Lumia 520, which, at more than 25 million units sold, is the company's best-selling device."

Microsoft is likely to exit deals with carriers that are not productive to their bottom line as well:

"The company also will exit carrier relationships and countries where it hasn't been successful, the person said, although it will continue to sell handsets in the U.S. because of the market's size and significance."

Contrasting the news with Microsoft COO Kevin Tuner's words from a leaked email obtained by ZDNet, the bigger picture begins to emerge for Windows Phone:

"Going forward, we will focus on building the very best Windows phones on a quicker timeline. We will also focus on the channels and markets that offer the best returns. This is a similar approach to the one we have taken with Surface, which has been very successful. Phones remain a critical component of the Microsoft device portfolio and an important piece of our mobility strategy, but a restructuring is in order."

Microsoft is clearly trimming the fat in regards to Windows Phone and changing how it approaches devices in the future. For a few years now critics have been calling on Nokia to scale back on all the Lumia releases. Microsoft is now doing just that, including utilizing the 'Surface approach' to making new flagships, something once again that users have requested numerous times.

Despite the course correction, critics, and even some Microsoft fans seem to have lost confidence.

It is not clear what Microsoft – and specifically Nadella – expect for Windows 10 Mobile in the coming years. Is the whole division a write-off too or do they seem themselves biding time, using a concerted effort to rebuild and restructure?

Related: 'Microsoft's restructuring of their phone business was necessary, obvious, and good for Lumia'

Regardless, my guess is that much of this negativity will die down in the coming months Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile come online later this year. Sources close to Windows Central suggest that a flagship reveal for the Lumia 940 could come as early as September at the 2015 IFA tradeshow in Berlin. Indeed, it was in Berlin 2014 that Microsoft announced the Lumia 730 and Lumia 830, so the chances seem high for a repeat.

If the source to Bloomberg BusinessWeek is accurate, Microsoft will still be in the mobile phone business for another two years. Let's see what happens.

Source: Bloomberg BusinessWeek

Daniel Rubino
Executive Editor

Daniel Rubino is the Executive Editor of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft here since 2007, back when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, Microsoft Surface, laptops, next-gen computing, and arguing with people on the internet.

  • Yay!
  • Great news, I think a more positive direct line is better, look at surfaces there rolling well. I was thinking the other day there is way to many low end phones and different spec's all over the place!
  • At some point, we have to start blaming Nadella for the state of Microsoft mobile.  His first move was to start making better, sooner, and more mobile apps for iOS and Android than Windows.  Every advantage of Windows Phone was to be ported to his rival devices, leaving no significant advantages to his platform. His second move was to kill Windows flagship phones.  No excitement for Windows Phones, means sales drop even further.  He didn't want Nokia, so today's announcement was a bit of the "I told you so" vindication for him.  However, he's been CEO for 18 months and he needs to own this failure.    He feels he can sell software, which is great.  However, people buy mobile platforms, not software.  Again, it's different than PCs.  Microsoft is giving away great apps for Android, but the Google apps are still most used. Google sells ads, not software, and they give software away for free.  Microsoft sold off the ads stuff, and Microsoft is competing with Google who's giving software away for "free".  I'm not sure how that works for Microsoft in mobile.   Some will say Microsoft doesn't need mobile at all.  That's true, they still have Azure, something Nadella actually wants.  But as mobile and PC's continue to blur, I believe abandoning the field on mobile is a massive risk to Microsoft.    I know, they were losing money on mobile, and the board was probably pissed.  However, giving up on mobile now would be like giving up on the internet twenty years ago.  Like it or not, mobile is a major part of IT future, and Microsoft maybe walking away from a fight instead of fighting for their lives.  That was Nadella decision.    
  • Microsoft brought their apps to Android and iOS because if they didn't...nobody would use them.  All of Microsoft's valuable customers are using iOS and Android. That's just the way it is. 
  • Nobody is saying that MS should not support other platforms... but atleast make the public/market believe that you give a damn about your own Platforms... Why should Devs develop for windows when MS themselves do not support it. May be Devs interested in developing Enterprise apps should only support Windows platform and for any games/apps that have consumer focus, they should target only iOS/Android...
  • Markus is right.  And Nadella is right with his strategy.   The battle over mobile platforms was over 2 years ago it's just many on here didn't realize it.   MSFT is trying to remain relevant to fight another day.   They can't keep bleeding money in this battle so retreat is the only option.   Do what you do well, regain your strength, and fight again another day.   But they can't abandon hardware completely just yet because they'd then have no one using their new Mobile OS version of Win10.   They have to stay in the game in a small way until hopefully this vision of universal apps begins to take hold and samsung, sony, HTC, etc. are willing to invest heavy again in devices for Windows.  That seems to be exactly the strategy based on what we are reading
  • I agree, I think the mobile platform market is just too locked up for them to get into now. This is especially true because of the network effect of social media apps. These apps are never going to be on WP if it's user base remains so small, and it's user base will remain small until these apps arrive. The usual solution of throwing money at developers won't work in the dotcom 2.0 era of SnapChat being valued at 20 billion dollars, it would be too expensive to bend thier ear. MS can't afford to throw a billion dollars at every app developer to get a WP version. The prospect of a universal app isn't a draw for apps that only want to be on phones anyway.    
  • I agree with you DrewT3 but let's hope you are wrong about the last assertion.  if Universal Apps (and the huge desktop market MSFT still holds) is not enough to get developers attention now, then MSFT is truly a dead man walking.  It would only be a matter of 10 years or less before they were sold for parts.
  • They should have a pro version in Windows and Simpler version in IOS and Android
  • Exactly, how does porting the best version of your apps help bring customers from those platforms to Windows? They will just keep using HERE or Office on ios or android and don't bother with Windows
  • The alternative is that by forcing people to choose windows in order to use their apps and ecosystem, they will instead drive people to other ecosystems and office suites and lose everything.
  • Why would they be investing millions of dollars into a new os then? Is that logic? Coding is expensive, programmers is expensive, creating a new os is expensive and trying to do it before year end needs a lot of coders and increase the cost greatly, they are not going to stop supporting it, Microsoft is the one company ik who always stand behind there products for years till its in the, surface was losing money for years, matter of fact isn't xbox still in the red?
  • This where you, don't understand business buddy.
  • You can't blame him cause he came last year and windows phone didn't really show growth in the last 4-5 years Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • It's TOTALLY Nadella's fault. No advertising. No flagships. Creating Microsoft apps for iOS & Android first. I mean, it's pretty obvious he wanted Lumia/Windows Phone to fail. Now that he's trumpeted that WP is an $8 billion failure, why should a consumer buy a Windows Phone? Why should a developer build a Universal app? How is Microsoft going to get to 2 billion Windows 10 devices without Mobile, without consumers? Nadella is killing Microsoft as a consumer brand. It will soon be IBMicrosoft--a profitable company that no one cares about. He is killing Microsoft to save it.
  • I don't think Nadella is telling WP is a $8 billion failure, in fact he has made the smartphone team more compact to have beter communication. Do we really know why McLaren was cancelled? Some blame the 3D technology it would use to be in conflict with HoloLens and Kinect, but the fact is that I think it was because of poor communication, on such a large phone team. Nokia engineers didn't liked to work with Surface engineers, so that probably caused cancellation. I think is time to fix the issues. Microsoft is in the top 6 tech global companies, other 4 are Apple, Google, Intel, Qualcomm and Samsung. Microsoft can be on the top again, but they need to fix their issues on Mobile ASAP. 
  • The media is reporting, "Windows Phone is dead" (and who could blame them). Those are the headlines that people are seeing, that developers are reading. Nadella's statements always make matters worse & create chaos. That's deadly when you're already at 3% market share and falling.
  • Windows Phone was dead in 2007 when balmer dismissed Apple and the iPhone.    When it took Microsoft 3 years to release an OS that was actually usable on phones.  Then took another 4-5 years to catch up in features. Nadella realized this.  There is no winning the smart phone market right.  There best bet is wait and see and hope continuum and universal apps get Microsoft recognized in the business world.
  • I think in hindsight the only shot they had at phones would have been to go hard on WP7 back in 2010. They spent so many years rewriting it to merge it with desktop Windows that they lost the market due to time. Maybe  a feature-rich WP8 running on CE in 2011 would have made a difference. The merge with desktop could have come later.
  • I don't think Nadella is telling WP is a $8 billion failure
    Basically they said "Hey world, you know that phone hardware company we bought a little while ago for $7.2 billion? Well, it's now worth negative $400 million and, oh yeah, it's going to cost an additional $750 million to clean up the mess."
  • Nadella's mistakes were 1) Nokia X lived and launched bad signals for OEMs and carriers. Nokia X should have been killed from beginning. 2) Secretly using tools with King to port Candy Crush to Windows Phone without telling other developers this technology existed and would help to port apps without chainging iOS/Android code. This is probably the biggest reason why OEMs and carriers don't want to sell Windows devices 3) McLaren cancellation. This is probably due to bad communication between CEO and senior management. So I think Nadella has to fix these mistakes fast, since that 3% of mobile marketshare could be 7% in one year and 14% in two years and that can save the Windows Mobile platform from extintion. Time to launch Lumia 1030 globally on 100 countries with no carrier preference (unlocked) and it better be good device with innovation, something that Apple is doing with their iPhone 6 slow motion/sound camera, and Samsung is doing with their bezel less-edge and curved designs.
  • Hear hear, well said.
  • Are you kidding? Two years is nothing. Sure they might continue longer but it doesn't really inject confidence to anyone thinking of joining the ecosystem, be it an OEM, a carrier, accessory maker, app developer or even a consumer buying a phone. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • This is where MS is really blowing it. Marketing and PR is a disaster. You cant let the kinds of statements float around unanswered. If you are going to give WP two more years, you dont say that. You say you are commited to it long term and go full speed until you dont. If you say antthing like "we're going to give it two more years", its already over. You will get no new apps. No support from anyone, You will have already been written off.
  • Or spin it the other way around: "we are going to wind down the phone hardware business in the next 4 years, as we move to give space to third party OEMs", then if they decide to stay longer they could say "due to customer demand..."
  • I agree.  But who says they aren't going to answer it.  This all just hit this week and really most of what we are reading is extrapolations and not facts.   If Nadella doesn't come out with a clear vision in a couple weeks to offset all this guessing by tech and business analysts, then I'll agree with you, MSFT is blowing it (again)
  • Microsoft really just shot themselves In the foot. I know many android and IOS users who where willing to try out windows mobile 10. Who would buy a phone or use a platform that has the potential of dying in two years. Truth is I wont and non of you will. I'm a dev and won't want to develop for a platform that will die in two years if it doesn't improve. Windows mobile 10 seems like its really dead now.
  • What I think many are missing owoturo is that MSFT is not giving up on mobile.  They are trying to give up on mobile hardware.   Ideally thats a good idea.  They are a software company.  They've lost billions and billions on Surface.   Stick to what you do well.   But they need to keep the hardware going for now because no one else is willing to invest in making Windows Phones.  if they can get Win10 and universal apps going, others will join and they can quietly exit.  That's really the strategy.  They are not giving up on the Windows OS for phones
  • It also doesn't mean windows mobile will die in two years. The board probably told him they do not agree with injecting into the phone division and he should do something to change the situation. Those $8b include the $7.2b spent to buy the division and profit is still negative. Less employees and less phone models mean less spent on releasing and producing new phones.
    It's much better to have less models that are better instead of more where each has stuff missing. Apple has only one model each year and nobody said they will die.
  • Nadella wants WP to fail. He always has. And now he's getting his wish. But without a Mobile presence, without consumers, Microsoft will become irrelevant fast.
  • 100% true!  The scariest thing about Nadella's actions and announcements is that he is NOT taking aim at their totally clueless Marketing arm.  If the same dolts have now got two years to make Window Mobile a success I thknk we can all see the writing on the wall. And it is SOOO helpful to start out by telling all your potential new customers that everything they invest in your mobile platform has a good chance of being flushed in 2 years.  It will really excite the Developer Community to spend their time and money on it too. I'm sure SnapChat's CEO is just chomping at the bit to develop a Windows Phone App now.  Great return on investment! Honestly, it really seems like Nadella is deliberately sabotaging Windows Mobile.  Balmer was clueless for far too long, but thsi guy looks like he is deliberately killing it using standard CYA CEO tactics. Going to start boning up on Jailbreaking the iPhone
  • why wait 2 yrs and burn cash in a failed platform ... its never going to reach even 10% ... better shutdown the phone business
  • It will definitely going to reach 10%+
  • in 5 yrs  only reached 3% ... msft is been hoping since their release of 7.5. and its time for windows 10 market will shrink even more 
  • You must be a blind idiot
  • LOL loser
  • In Italy wp beat iphone. LoL troll
  • It hasn't been 5 years-first phones came out October 2010. Yea, I know getting close to 5 years.
  • because wp was too restricted. day by day, it gets better in terms of os features and app-gap is coming to an end.  why w10m is a big hit for windows phone? because all of the apis are open to developers like to the microsoft itself.  when they develop a true universal app, it will perfectly run both on tablets, mobile phones and PCs. 
  • Don't claim something that hasn't happened.
  • Well, Microsoft has been working on the code since Vista. It is proven to work on even Arms chipset with Windows 8.1. I don't see how it cannot work even more so now. But I can see Microsoft exiting the hardware market and I think it was always in their plans but enough Execs kept it around over others. Microsoft have a treasure cove of hardware makers for them to hang around not to mention the extra spenditures designing and producing these devices and then marketing. HP, Dell and so many others have this all in place so Microsoft can leave hardware with comfort.
  • And the competition will just sit still and see their share decline... /s
  • Only reached 3% in the US. It's doing pretty well in Europe and India.
  • And Brazil. 2nd place here.
  • How big is the market share? Brazil is dependent of domestic manufacturing due huge import taxes. Microsoft Mobile has therefore factory in Manaus which also produces x-boxes. Lets hope its not in the cut list as that would kill Windows phones in Brazil.
  • It's 3% world wide. 
  • I saw many wp during my two weeks trip in Europe, much more than in the US.
  • Exactly. These 'Windows Phone is dead' comments seem so out of place whilst surrounded by so many Windows Phone users. I think this is all about the US really, where WP never really was alive anyway. I say back out of the US market entirely, it'll save money so they can focus on things US people like (such as Android/iOS apps) and just sell the phones where the customers live.
  • Without the US, no one will make apps for the platform. The countries Windows Phone has market share are small and barely able to move the needle. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • This is linear extrapolating. Fails almost always. Last time I checked, back in 2007 or 2008 it was the linear extrapolating of ever increasing House prices in US, with relative mortgages. Gee, see what happens.
  • Exactly
  • In my country (Poland) WP has ~14%
  • you dont think people will want windows 10 on their phones?
  • I don't think they'll want it on any touch devices unless it improves a tonne.
  • guys it doesnt matter ... how much is the percentage in europe and Asia ... if you are not popular in USA you are no one. even with so called popularity in europe still world's percentage is below 5%
  • That also happened because in other markets people are use to only buying a phone on a contract(a certain market where people are brainwashed to think that iPhone), carriers that do the sabotage instead and so on. You would also expect MSFT would fill their stores in US with lumia phones and advertise them. In most of Europe WP has at least 10% share. W10 really is a big improvement on all platforms and by this time next year it will show in sales and market share
  • Apple and Android did so everything's possible.
  • Already has 10%
  • If the Surface line can be successful after a failure start so too can the slimed down Phone line. I believe this is the correct decision and will lead to success for WP. Maybe not as wide selling as Android but enough to make a profit and satisfy the true Windows fans. Apple has only 19% of the worldwide smartphone market and they make $billions profit per year. I am looking forward to my new 940 and Windows 10.
  • True. I hate the wide portfolio approach from the very beginning... Apple can makes tons of money from just two models an year. And they are not constrained by any Carrier-exclusive deals. I want just few good models across all carriers. Or even sell directly from MS.
  • Well, even Apple has at least 4 models at any given time (I.e. iPhone 5, 5S and 5C are still selling and being manufactured).
  • Well, even Apple has at least 4 models at any given time (I.e. iPhone 5, 5S and 5C are still selling and being manufactured).
  • Just like the Surface they need Surface Mobile, Flagship $499 (better than others, unlocked and not carrier specfic) Business Phones $399 (not sure why you would need this as  Flagshop will do just fine and mid-level $249, better than the comp...Samsing, Asus, LG, HTC.  They have an established reputation with Surface, so the hardware manufactures how its done ...again and we'll get more WP's out there.
  • maybe because they want to see if developers will make universal apps for windows 10 and inthe process also for tablets and windows phone. if wp get a few important apps, i don't think there will be a problem growing the platform. the want to scale down the amount of device they make and comcentrate on a few devices that will be profitable. if they turn a profit, thwy will stick with the platform more than 2 years. if they don't, they might shut it down.
  • It allready is 10% in Europe. The rest of the world just needs to follow.
  • Some countries in Europe.
  • The problem is developers and media conceptions for WP platform. Win 10 is coming, which should hopefully increase Microsoft 's share in the mobile pie. But with news like these, why should anyone see WP has a future.
    But I believe that the mainstream media is biased against Microsoft. Engadget, cnet etc. mostly report on negative news coming from MS, while on the other side reporting on any little, meaningless thing about Google and Apple in a positive way.
  • This is exactly my concern. Changing perceptions is an incredibly difficult task. I hope Microsoft can turn this one around. We'll see.
  • My local bank recently launched their app on iOS and android but not on WP. So I just casually made fb post saying, no love for windows phone by my bank....i got a few comments to the post nearly all of them asking what was windows phone, one of them supposedly an IT guy, and some clearly didn't know MS had moved forward from WinMob 6. I think that right there is a problem....making people think beyond iPhone and Androids when it comes to mobile.
  • I got tons of people to move to windows phone, of course of if they could get the 1020, 930, 830 or 640xl
  • They need to seriously move Joe Belfiore to PR and advertising. That guy is damn good at it and people everywhere should know about windows and windows phone
  • Yeah don't forget iVerge.
  • This. All of this. I can reliably predict whether BGR will run news on Windows phone based on the tone of the news. If it's negative, they crawl out from under their rock and proclaim WP dead. If it's positive they might run it as is(rare) or they might just pick it apart as wishful thinking. Most likely they simply don't give it any attention.
  • No, the problem is everything is always "coming". Microsoft is just constantly dangling a carrot in front of our faces that we can never have, and I think a lot of people are over it.
  • You probably havent tried w10m.
  • Really? Sounds like he has to me.
  • Sadly agree. Two years is enough time to get six devices out - these devices are probably all msft instead of repurposed Nokia left overs - ply the market and see if there is any growth in sales.
    People assume a new os means people will jump over. As someone that has used windows mobile since the late 90's, when it was born and you only had RIM and WM as an Enterprise choice, this idea has been bandied about for years. Bottom line, both BlackBerry nee Rim and Msft got completely confounded by the arrival of consumer based mobiles and they've never recovered. Ballmer never really had a plan other than to copy apples success by creating a locked down and stripped-down os - and wp 7 dropped like a brick and this me too attitude has cost msft billions now. Purchasing Nokia was really divisive - but ballmer and elop and their relationship carried this write off through - much to the shareholders chagrin. WP is now a carcass and they're is only hope that this new os brings interest. Everyone bangs on about universal apps but the bottom line is that I'd they're is no interest in wp why will devs port. This has nothing to do with being easy and everything to do with public perception and money. Simple. The most ironic thing is that, with lollipop, android is now what windows mobile 6.5 was! I've got a note 4 for business (I don't use social media bar mobile nations and don't play games, I'm not a teenager or student - NONE of the Enterprise apps I'm looking for exist on WP. Iron fx, nothing - not even the support for the simplest share platform. Nada) and it is the closest to my old xda as anything has gotten. Full circle. It's ironic that android now apes the best of what windows mobile WAS - I only use windows for my pcs, have surface 3 and pro 3 and dell venue 11 pro (the replaceable ssd is a must for Enterprise and I hope the new surface line allows for this!!!) and I just find it bonkers android is now being deployed in so many finance offices. Now consumer android devices, locked down non-bootlocker breakable devices. MSFT have had years to address this buy have sat on their hands... I really want msft tho grey it right this time but everything I've seen in the tp builds is a cosmetic refresh... The options are coming but they should really just get on with it and innovate, heck copy the feature spec for wm6.5 - it did "quiet time" without Cortana ffs! A glorified indexing system isn't going to increase sales, just like siri or google now haven't... I hope this works...I hope this doesn't go the way of Zune: A superior product no one gave a a darn about and it was just written off - like the Nokia purchase...
  • It's really strange. It's like they've gone down the route of making their item as retard friendly as possible, ignoring that their best customers aren't retards. The apple market might make the most money, but appealing to them will inevitably lose the majority of people who aren't like that. I think ever since Gates left the company hasn't really had a coherent strategy. For all his faults, he got most things spot on.
  • I haven't lost confidence
  • Yup, to me WP is dead when its dead and not before.
  • When Bank of America and Chase pulled out, that was it.
  • agreed.  WP is dead for me ... its a joke lame OS 
  • Then why are you here?
  • ^
  • Because this site is called Windows Central and not WPcentral and that's been the case for months? You can be a Windows fan and still think WP or WM10 is a joke.  
  • @ASPDEV: joke OS for joke person, you must be thrilled
  • Fuck ASPDEV, just a troll with an Android. Like a whore with AIDS. We all can't enjoy filth.
  • Can't stop just shut him up.
  • the OS is very good. the developer support is lame. frankly, i don't use many apps on my phone and i will gladly stick around if they make a nice flagship. if they can get chase to make a web app that can access the camera, i would be happy with that. one of the projects MS demoed was the ability to make web apps that can access hardware and provide notifications. if the chase web app could allow me to deposit checks, I wouldn't need any mative apps.
  • > The OS is very good Please defend this comment.  What I would like is to have you do is point out one thing -- anything -- that you can't do as well or better on an alternative OS.  I am not talking about apps, which is undeniably a crisis.  And I am not talking about special hardware features like a 40 MP Lumia 1020.  But rather the OS itself.  What can it do that is "very good?"  I can't think of anything. As to why I am on this site, I am on this site because I have four "working" cell phones in my house, and they are all Windows Phones (L920, L925, L635 for testing W10M on, and my daily driver, a One M8).  I have been coming here since I acquired my first Windows Phone device, an Arrive, the week it launched on Sprint.  I don't have an Android phone.  I don't have an iPhone.  So I come here to find out if there's anything good happening in the World of Windows Phone.  But there never is...
  • @x I'm tc  there are lot of things you can't do with WP.  1. horrible multi tasking  2. you cant change themes (android is way better in this) 3. very poor apis for developers  4. after 5 years they realized they need to add mouse and keyboard support to WP  5. LED notification  6. Notification center is horrible ( which was added after 3-4 yrs) 7. No Multi-screen
  • And that's just a partial list!  WP is not a "very good OS" but rather a terrible one.  webOS and Symbian were, in many ways, much full featured years ago than WP is today. I actually think this is MS' main problem with WP.  The app gap is a big deal, but people aren't turned off of WP principally because of the lack of apps, they're turned off because the platform itself is so horribly limited compared Android (and even iOS).  #1 and #6 are the biggies for the OS itself. But, getting back to the app situation for a moment, #3 probably more the reason for the horrible app support than low market share.  As far as I can tell, it is essentially impossible to write a really nice app for WP.  Even MS themselves can't do it, if we are to judge by the quality of their apps like Skype, News, etc.  They're just so crappy.  How come there's an app to control your music from your band if you are using an Android phone but not a Windows Phone?  Because there can be!  Worse, it doesn't look to me like W10 is going to do anything to alleviate this problem.  Universal apps aren't much good if they're crap.  That's why I think the end-of-the-road for WP is a lot closer than two years down the road.
  • most of the apps that are on android and IOS can't even be re-written for WP ... because of limited APIs. example tasker, memory managers etc.
  • LOL. They will be back. What is it with you naysayers and absolutes?
    Why do you assume that nothing will change when they are changing the way operating systems work with Win 10? No one has ever attempted this level of interoperability before and they are focusing their efforts on their strengths.
    If you and I were opposing boxers and I was CLEARLY about to throw an uppercut... you're saying you'd let me hit you with it because in the past 3 rounds I only threw jabs?
  • > they are changing the way operating systems work What the heck is so different about W10M?  I'm running it on an extra device (an L635) and it can't do anything my current phone (a One M8) can't do... The converse isn't true, however (for example, W10M doesnt' sync right with my Band).
  • A Surface Phone, if executed right, would spark the interest in Windows Phone / Mobile again. It will be the talk of the media for months. I suspect that Microsoft would ever do it though, although that is my dream.
  • you ppl with your surface phone..... you talk as if you could not enjoy a top notch lumia phone because it is named lumia and not surface..... get over it. quality > brand.
  • Well I want a Surface phone as well but I don't care if it's called Lumia or Surface. I'd PREFER Lumia, but it really doesn't matter. I just really like the quality of the Surface line and want Microsoft to treat the Lumia line the same way... Maybe even borrow materials and ideas from it as well. I'd LOVE a built in kickstand that cases were built to accommodate for instance.
  • Quality does NOT trump brand, not in the consumer real-world. Most consumers will buy anything that is popular or makes them feel cool or part of a larger group. Look at the quality and feature sets of Android and iOS over the years - frequent lockups, malware in Google Play, small mp cameras, freaking glass outer shells in iPhones - people still bought them in droves because it was the BRANDING. Lumia flagship phones almost always had better spec sheets, but never caught on in the major markets. The Lumia brand is dying. The Surface brand is hot right now. It's been universally praised as elegant and thoughtful design. If MSFT were to release a Surface phone it would fit right in with the One OS strategy that is Win10. This is my opinion, obviously, but I think it could be a big hit WITH THE RIGHT MARKETING...