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Bloomberg – Microsoft 'expects to make its own phones for at least the next two years'

The tech world is still reeling from today's announcement by Microsoft regarding the restructuring of its phone division. Between the costly write-down of the Nokia devices acquisition and the 7,800 layoffs, it is hard to see a silver lining in today's news. Many tech sites are going right for the jugular and proclaiming Windows Phone's death, despite the coming release of Windows 10 Mobile and new flagships this fall.

In a new article, Bloomberg BusinessWeek cites an unnamed source familiar with Nadella's plans for phone. Regardless of some expecting Windows Phone to be phased out by 2016, Microsoft will evidently stick with making phones for at least the new two years. Bloomberg's Dina Bass and Olga Kharif explain the strategy:

"The company expects to make its own phones for at least the next two years, said a person familiar with Nadella's plans who asked not to be named because the plans aren't public. Microsoft will try to play up its strengths in the markets it has chosen, such as corporate security and collaboration software for business customers.""Instead of trying to sell as many phones as possible, Microsoft will concentrate on three categories: business phones, high-end models and value phones like the Lumia 520, which, at more than 25 million units sold, is the company's best-selling device."

Microsoft is likely to exit deals with carriers that are not productive to their bottom line as well:

"The company also will exit carrier relationships and countries where it hasn't been successful, the person said, although it will continue to sell handsets in the U.S. because of the market's size and significance."

Contrasting the news with Microsoft COO Kevin Tuner's words from a leaked email obtained by ZDNet, the bigger picture begins to emerge for Windows Phone:

"Going forward, we will focus on building the very best Windows phones on a quicker timeline. We will also focus on the channels and markets that offer the best returns. This is a similar approach to the one we have taken with Surface, which has been very successful. Phones remain a critical component of the Microsoft device portfolio and an important piece of our mobility strategy, but a restructuring is in order."

Microsoft is clearly trimming the fat in regards to Windows Phone and changing how it approaches devices in the future. For a few years now critics have been calling on Nokia to scale back on all the Lumia releases. Microsoft is now doing just that, including utilizing the 'Surface approach' to making new flagships, something once again that users have requested numerous times.

Despite the course correction, critics, and even some Microsoft fans seem to have lost confidence.

It is not clear what Microsoft – and specifically Nadella – expect for Windows 10 Mobile in the coming years. Is the whole division a write-off too or do they seem themselves biding time, using a concerted effort to rebuild and restructure?

Related: 'Microsoft's restructuring of their phone business was necessary, obvious, and good for Lumia'

Regardless, my guess is that much of this negativity will die down in the coming months Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile come online later this year. Sources close to Windows Central suggest that a flagship reveal for the Lumia 940 could come as early as September at the 2015 IFA tradeshow in Berlin. Indeed, it was in Berlin 2014 that Microsoft announced the Lumia 730 and Lumia 830, so the chances seem high for a repeat.

If the source to Bloomberg BusinessWeek is accurate, Microsoft will still be in the mobile phone business for another two years. Let's see what happens.

Source: Bloomberg BusinessWeek

Daniel Rubino is the Executive Editor of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft here since 2007, back when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, Microsoft Surface, laptops, next-gen computing, and arguing with people on the internet.

566 Comments
  • Yay!
  • Great news, I think a more positive direct line is better, look at surfaces there rolling well. I was thinking the other day there is way to many low end phones and different spec's all over the place!
  • At some point, we have to start blaming Nadella for the state of Microsoft mobile.  His first move was to start making better, sooner, and more mobile apps for iOS and Android than Windows.  Every advantage of Windows Phone was to be ported to his rival devices, leaving no significant advantages to his platform. His second move was to kill Windows flagship phones.  No excitement for Windows Phones, means sales drop even further.  He didn't want Nokia, so today's announcement was a bit of the "I told you so" vindication for him.  However, he's been CEO for 18 months and he needs to own this failure.    He feels he can sell software, which is great.  However, people buy mobile platforms, not software.  Again, it's different than PCs.  Microsoft is giving away great apps for Android, but the Google apps are still most used. Google sells ads, not software, and they give software away for free.  Microsoft sold off the ads stuff, and Microsoft is competing with Google who's giving software away for "free".  I'm not sure how that works for Microsoft in mobile.   Some will say Microsoft doesn't need mobile at all.  That's true, they still have Azure, something Nadella actually wants.  But as mobile and PC's continue to blur, I believe abandoning the field on mobile is a massive risk to Microsoft.    I know, they were losing money on mobile, and the board was probably pissed.  However, giving up on mobile now would be like giving up on the internet twenty years ago.  Like it or not, mobile is a major part of IT future, and Microsoft maybe walking away from a fight instead of fighting for their lives.  That was Nadella decision.    
  • Microsoft brought their apps to Android and iOS because if they didn't...nobody would use them.  All of Microsoft's valuable customers are using iOS and Android. That's just the way it is. 
  • Nobody is saying that MS should not support other platforms... but atleast make the public/market believe that you give a damn about your own Platforms... Why should Devs develop for windows when MS themselves do not support it. May be Devs interested in developing Enterprise apps should only support Windows platform and for any games/apps that have consumer focus, they should target only iOS/Android...
  • Markus is right.  And Nadella is right with his strategy.   The battle over mobile platforms was over 2 years ago it's just many on here didn't realize it.   MSFT is trying to remain relevant to fight another day.   They can't keep bleeding money in this battle so retreat is the only option.   Do what you do well, regain your strength, and fight again another day.   But they can't abandon hardware completely just yet because they'd then have no one using their new Mobile OS version of Win10.   They have to stay in the game in a small way until hopefully this vision of universal apps begins to take hold and samsung, sony, HTC, etc. are willing to invest heavy again in devices for Windows.  That seems to be exactly the strategy based on what we are reading
  • I agree, I think the mobile platform market is just too locked up for them to get into now. This is especially true because of the network effect of social media apps. These apps are never going to be on WP if it's user base remains so small, and it's user base will remain small until these apps arrive. The usual solution of throwing money at developers won't work in the dotcom 2.0 era of SnapChat being valued at 20 billion dollars, it would be too expensive to bend thier ear. MS can't afford to throw a billion dollars at every app developer to get a WP version. The prospect of a universal app isn't a draw for apps that only want to be on phones anyway.    
  • I agree with you DrewT3 but let's hope you are wrong about the last assertion.  if Universal Apps (and the huge desktop market MSFT still holds) is not enough to get developers attention now, then MSFT is truly a dead man walking.  It would only be a matter of 10 years or less before they were sold for parts.
  • They should have a pro version in Windows and Simpler version in IOS and Android
  • Exactly, how does porting the best version of your apps help bring customers from those platforms to Windows? They will just keep using HERE or Office on ios or android and don't bother with Windows
  • The alternative is that by forcing people to choose windows in order to use their apps and ecosystem, they will instead drive people to other ecosystems and office suites and lose everything.
  • Why would they be investing millions of dollars into a new os then? Is that logic? Coding is expensive, programmers is expensive, creating a new os is expensive and trying to do it before year end needs a lot of coders and increase the cost greatly, they are not going to stop supporting it, Microsoft is the one company ik who always stand behind there products for years till its in the green...xbox, surface was losing money for years, matter of fact isn't xbox still in the red?
  • This where you, don't understand business buddy.
  • You can't blame him cause he came last year and windows phone didn't really show growth in the last 4-5 years Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • It's TOTALLY Nadella's fault. No advertising. No flagships. Creating Microsoft apps for iOS & Android first. I mean, it's pretty obvious he wanted Lumia/Windows Phone to fail. Now that he's trumpeted that WP is an $8 billion failure, why should a consumer buy a Windows Phone? Why should a developer build a Universal app? How is Microsoft going to get to 2 billion Windows 10 devices without Mobile, without consumers? Nadella is killing Microsoft as a consumer brand. It will soon be IBMicrosoft--a profitable company that no one cares about. He is killing Microsoft to save it.
  • I don't think Nadella is telling WP is a $8 billion failure, in fact he has made the smartphone team more compact to have beter communication. Do we really know why McLaren was cancelled? Some blame the 3D technology it would use to be in conflict with HoloLens and Kinect, but the fact is that I think it was because of poor communication, on such a large phone team. Nokia engineers didn't liked to work with Surface engineers, so that probably caused cancellation. I think is time to fix the issues. Microsoft is in the top 6 tech global companies, other 4 are Apple, Google, Intel, Qualcomm and Samsung. Microsoft can be on the top again, but they need to fix their issues on Mobile ASAP. 
  • The media is reporting, "Windows Phone is dead" (and who could blame them). Those are the headlines that people are seeing, that developers are reading. Nadella's statements always make matters worse & create chaos. That's deadly when you're already at 3% market share and falling.
  • Windows Phone was dead in 2007 when balmer dismissed Apple and the iPhone.    When it took Microsoft 3 years to release an OS that was actually usable on phones.  Then took another 4-5 years to catch up in features. Nadella realized this.  There is no winning the smart phone market right.  There best bet is wait and see and hope continuum and universal apps get Microsoft recognized in the business world.
  • I think in hindsight the only shot they had at phones would have been to go hard on WP7 back in 2010. They spent so many years rewriting it to merge it with desktop Windows that they lost the market due to time. Maybe  a feature-rich WP8 running on CE in 2011 would have made a difference. The merge with desktop could have come later.
  • I don't think Nadella is telling WP is a $8 billion failure
    Basically they said "Hey world, you know that phone hardware company we bought a little while ago for $7.2 billion? Well, it's now worth negative $400 million and, oh yeah, it's going to cost an additional $750 million to clean up the mess."
     
  • Nadella's mistakes were 1) Nokia X lived and launched bad signals for OEMs and carriers. Nokia X should have been killed from beginning. 2) Secretly using tools with King to port Candy Crush to Windows Phone without telling other developers this technology existed and would help to port apps without chainging iOS/Android code. This is probably the biggest reason why OEMs and carriers don't want to sell Windows devices 3) McLaren cancellation. This is probably due to bad communication between CEO and senior management. So I think Nadella has to fix these mistakes fast, since that 3% of mobile marketshare could be 7% in one year and 14% in two years and that can save the Windows Mobile platform from extintion. Time to launch Lumia 1030 globally on 100 countries with no carrier preference (unlocked) and it better be good device with innovation, something that Apple is doing with their iPhone 6 slow motion/sound camera, and Samsung is doing with their bezel less-edge and curved designs.
  • Hear hear, well said.
  • Are you kidding? Two years is nothing. Sure they might continue longer but it doesn't really inject confidence to anyone thinking of joining the ecosystem, be it an OEM, a carrier, accessory maker, app developer or even a consumer buying a phone. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • This is where MS is really blowing it. Marketing and PR is a disaster. You cant let the kinds of statements float around unanswered. If you are going to give WP two more years, you dont say that. You say you are commited to it long term and go full speed until you dont. If you say antthing like "we're going to give it two more years", its already over. You will get no new apps. No support from anyone, You will have already been written off.
  • Or spin it the other way around: "we are going to wind down the phone hardware business in the next 4 years, as we move to give space to third party OEMs", then if they decide to stay longer they could say "due to customer demand..."
  • I agree.  But who says they aren't going to answer it.  This all just hit this week and really most of what we are reading is extrapolations and not facts.   If Nadella doesn't come out with a clear vision in a couple weeks to offset all this guessing by tech and business analysts, then I'll agree with you, MSFT is blowing it (again)
  • Microsoft really just shot themselves In the foot. I know many android and IOS users who where willing to try out windows mobile 10. Who would buy a phone or use a platform that has the potential of dying in two years. Truth is I wont and non of you will. I'm a dev and won't want to develop for a platform that will die in two years if it doesn't improve. Windows mobile 10 seems like its really dead now.
  • What I think many are missing owoturo is that MSFT is not giving up on mobile.  They are trying to give up on mobile hardware.   Ideally thats a good idea.  They are a software company.  They've lost billions and billions on Surface.   Stick to what you do well.   But they need to keep the hardware going for now because no one else is willing to invest in making Windows Phones.  if they can get Win10 and universal apps going, others will join and they can quietly exit.  That's really the strategy.  They are not giving up on the Windows OS for phones
  • It also doesn't mean windows mobile will die in two years. The board probably told him they do not agree with injecting into the phone division and he should do something to change the situation. Those $8b include the $7.2b spent to buy the division and profit is still negative. Less employees and less phone models mean less spent on releasing and producing new phones.
    It's much better to have less models that are better instead of more where each has stuff missing. Apple has only one model each year and nobody said they will die.
  • Nadella wants WP to fail. He always has. And now he's getting his wish. But without a Mobile presence, without consumers, Microsoft will become irrelevant fast.
  • 100% true!  The scariest thing about Nadella's actions and announcements is that he is NOT taking aim at their totally clueless Marketing arm.  If the same dolts have now got two years to make Window Mobile a success I thknk we can all see the writing on the wall. And it is SOOO helpful to start out by telling all your potential new customers that everything they invest in your mobile platform has a good chance of being flushed in 2 years.  It will really excite the Developer Community to spend their time and money on it too. I'm sure SnapChat's CEO is just chomping at the bit to develop a Windows Phone App now.  Great return on investment! Honestly, it really seems like Nadella is deliberately sabotaging Windows Mobile.  Balmer was clueless for far too long, but thsi guy looks like he is deliberately killing it using standard CYA CEO tactics. Going to start boning up on Jailbreaking the iPhone
  • why wait 2 yrs and burn cash in a failed platform ... its never going to reach even 10% ... better shutdown the phone business
  • It will definitely going to reach 10%+
  • in 5 yrs  only reached 3% ... msft is been hoping since their release of 7.5. and its time for windows 10 market will shrink even more 
  • You must be a blind idiot
  • LOL loser
  • In Italy wp beat iphone. LoL troll
  • It hasn't been 5 years-first phones came out October 2010. Yea, I know getting close to 5 years.
  • because wp was too restricted. day by day, it gets better in terms of os features and app-gap is coming to an end.  why w10m is a big hit for windows phone? because all of the apis are open to developers like to the microsoft itself.  when they develop a true universal app, it will perfectly run both on tablets, mobile phones and PCs. 
  • Don't claim something that hasn't happened.
  • Well, Microsoft has been working on the code since Vista. It is proven to work on even Arms chipset with Windows 8.1. I don't see how it cannot work even more so now. But I can see Microsoft exiting the hardware market and I think it was always in their plans but enough Execs kept it around over others. Microsoft have a treasure cove of hardware makers for them to hang around not to mention the extra spenditures designing and producing these devices and then marketing. HP, Dell and so many others have this all in place so Microsoft can leave hardware with comfort.
  • And the competition will just sit still and see their share decline... /s
  • Only reached 3% in the US. It's doing pretty well in Europe and India.
  • And Brazil. 2nd place here.
  • How big is the market share? Brazil is dependent of domestic manufacturing due huge import taxes. Microsoft Mobile has therefore factory in Manaus which also produces x-boxes. Lets hope its not in the cut list as that would kill Windows phones in Brazil.
  • It's 3% world wide. 
  • I saw many wp during my two weeks trip in Europe, much more than in the US.
  • Exactly. These 'Windows Phone is dead' comments seem so out of place whilst surrounded by so many Windows Phone users. I think this is all about the US really, where WP never really was alive anyway. I say back out of the US market entirely, it'll save money so they can focus on things US people like (such as Android/iOS apps) and just sell the phones where the customers live.
  • Without the US, no one will make apps for the platform. The countries Windows Phone has market share are small and barely able to move the needle. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • This is linear extrapolating. Fails almost always. Last time I checked, back in 2007 or 2008 it was the linear extrapolating of ever increasing House prices in US, with relative mortgages. Gee, see what happens.
  • Exactly
  • In my country (Poland) WP has ~14%
  • you dont think people will want windows 10 on their phones?
  • I don't think they'll want it on any touch devices unless it improves a tonne.
  • guys it doesnt matter ... how much is the percentage in europe and Asia ... if you are not popular in USA you are no one. even with so called popularity in europe still world's percentage is below 5%
  • That also happened because in other markets people are use to only buying a phone on a contract(a certain market where people are brainwashed to think that iPhone), carriers that do the sabotage instead and so on. You would also expect MSFT would fill their stores in US with lumia phones and advertise them. In most of Europe WP has at least 10% share. W10 really is a big improvement on all platforms and by this time next year it will show in sales and market share
  • Apple and Android did so everything's possible.
  • Already has 10%
  • If the Surface line can be successful after a failure start so too can the slimed down Phone line. I believe this is the correct decision and will lead to success for WP. Maybe not as wide selling as Android but enough to make a profit and satisfy the true Windows fans. Apple has only 19% of the worldwide smartphone market and they make $billions profit per year. I am looking forward to my new 940 and Windows 10.
  • True. I hate the wide portfolio approach from the very beginning... Apple can makes tons of money from just two models an year. And they are not constrained by any Carrier-exclusive deals. I want just few good models across all carriers. Or even sell directly from MS.
  • Well, even Apple has at least 4 models at any given time (I.e. iPhone 5, 5S and 5C are still selling and being manufactured).
  • Well, even Apple has at least 4 models at any given time (I.e. iPhone 5, 5S and 5C are still selling and being manufactured).
  • Just like the Surface they need Surface Mobile, Flagship $499 (better than others, unlocked and not carrier specfic) Business Phones $399 (not sure why you would need this as  Flagshop will do just fine and mid-level $249, better than the comp...Samsing, Asus, LG, HTC.  They have an established reputation with Surface, so the hardware manufactures how its done ...again and we'll get more WP's out there.
  • maybe because they want to see if developers will make universal apps for windows 10 and inthe process also for tablets and windows phone. if wp get a few important apps, i don't think there will be a problem growing the platform. the want to scale down the amount of device they make and comcentrate on a few devices that will be profitable. if they turn a profit, thwy will stick with the platform more than 2 years. if they don't, they might shut it down.
  • It allready is 10% in Europe. The rest of the world just needs to follow.
  • Some countries in Europe.
  • The problem is developers and media conceptions for WP platform. Win 10 is coming, which should hopefully increase Microsoft 's share in the mobile pie. But with news like these, why should anyone see WP has a future.
    But I believe that the mainstream media is biased against Microsoft. Engadget, cnet etc. mostly report on negative news coming from MS, while on the other side reporting on any little, meaningless thing about Google and Apple in a positive way.
  • This is exactly my concern. Changing perceptions is an incredibly difficult task. I hope Microsoft can turn this one around. We'll see.
  • My local bank recently launched their app on iOS and android but not on WP. So I just casually made fb post saying, no love for windows phone by my bank....i got a few comments to the post nearly all of them asking what was windows phone, one of them supposedly an IT guy, and some clearly didn't know MS had moved forward from WinMob 6. I think that right there is a problem....making people think beyond iPhone and Androids when it comes to mobile.
  • I got tons of people to move to windows phone, of course of if they could get the 1020, 930, 830 or 640xl
  • They need to seriously move Joe Belfiore to PR and advertising. That guy is damn good at it and people everywhere should know about windows and windows phone
  • Yeah don't forget iVerge.
  • This. All of this. I can reliably predict whether BGR will run news on Windows phone based on the tone of the news. If it's negative, they crawl out from under their rock and proclaim WP dead. If it's positive they might run it as is(rare) or they might just pick it apart as wishful thinking. Most likely they simply don't give it any attention.
  • No, the problem is everything is always "coming". Microsoft is just constantly dangling a carrot in front of our faces that we can never have, and I think a lot of people are over it.
  • You probably havent tried w10m.
  • Really? Sounds like he has to me.
  • Sadly agree. Two years is enough time to get six devices out - these devices are probably all msft instead of repurposed Nokia left overs - ply the market and see if there is any growth in sales.
    .
    People assume a new os means people will jump over. As someone that has used windows mobile since the late 90's, when it was born and you only had RIM and WM as an Enterprise choice, this idea has been bandied about for years. Bottom line, both BlackBerry nee Rim and Msft got completely confounded by the arrival of consumer based mobiles and they've never recovered. Ballmer never really had a plan other than to copy apples success by creating a locked down and stripped-down os - and wp 7 dropped like a brick and this me too attitude has cost msft billions now. Purchasing Nokia was really divisive - but ballmer and elop and their relationship carried this write off through - much to the shareholders chagrin. WP is now a carcass and they're is only hope that this new os brings interest. Everyone bangs on about universal apps but the bottom line is that I'd they're is no interest in wp why will devs port. This has nothing to do with being easy and everything to do with public perception and money. Simple. The most ironic thing is that, with lollipop, android is now what windows mobile 6.5 was! I've got a note 4 for business (I don't use social media bar mobile nations and don't play games, I'm not a teenager or student - NONE of the Enterprise apps I'm looking for exist on WP. Iron fx, nothing - not even the support for the simplest share platform. Nada) and it is the closest to my old xda as anything has gotten. Full circle. It's ironic that android now apes the best of what windows mobile WAS - I only use windows for my pcs, have surface 3 and pro 3 and dell venue 11 pro (the replaceable ssd is a must for Enterprise and I hope the new surface line allows for this!!!) and I just find it bonkers android is now being deployed in so many finance offices. Now consumer android devices, locked down non-bootlocker breakable devices. MSFT have had years to address this buy have sat on their hands... I really want msft tho grey it right this time but everything I've seen in the tp builds is a cosmetic refresh... The options are coming but they should really just get on with it and innovate, heck copy the feature spec for wm6.5 - it did "quiet time" without Cortana ffs! A glorified indexing system isn't going to increase sales, just like siri or google now haven't... I hope this works...I hope this doesn't go the way of Zune: A superior product no one gave a a darn about and it was just written off - like the Nokia purchase...
  • It's really strange. It's like they've gone down the route of making their item as retard friendly as possible, ignoring that their best customers aren't retards. The apple market might make the most money, but appealing to them will inevitably lose the majority of people who aren't like that. I think ever since Gates left the company hasn't really had a coherent strategy. For all his faults, he got most things spot on.
  • I haven't lost confidence
  • Yup, to me WP is dead when its dead and not before.
  • When Bank of America and Chase pulled out, that was it.
  • agreed.  WP is dead for me ... its a joke lame OS 
  • Then why are you here?
  • ^
  • Because this site is called Windows Central and not WPcentral and that's been the case for months? You can be a Windows fan and still think WP or WM10 is a joke.  
  • @ASPDEV: joke OS for joke person, you must be thrilled
  • Fuck ASPDEV, just a troll with an Android. Like a whore with AIDS. We all can't enjoy filth.
  • Can't stop laughing..you just shut him up.
  • the OS is very good. the developer support is lame. frankly, i don't use many apps on my phone and i will gladly stick around if they make a nice flagship. if they can get chase to make a web app that can access the camera, i would be happy with that. one of the projects MS demoed was the ability to make web apps that can access hardware and provide notifications. if the chase web app could allow me to deposit checks, I wouldn't need any mative apps.
  • > The OS is very good Please defend this comment.  What I would like is to have you do is point out one thing -- anything -- that you can't do as well or better on an alternative OS.  I am not talking about apps, which is undeniably a crisis.  And I am not talking about special hardware features like a 40 MP Lumia 1020.  But rather the OS itself.  What can it do that is "very good?"  I can't think of anything. As to why I am on this site, I am on this site because I have four "working" cell phones in my house, and they are all Windows Phones (L920, L925, L635 for testing W10M on, and my daily driver, a One M8).  I have been coming here since I acquired my first Windows Phone device, an Arrive, the week it launched on Sprint.  I don't have an Android phone.  I don't have an iPhone.  So I come here to find out if there's anything good happening in the World of Windows Phone.  But there never is...
  • @x I'm tc  there are lot of things you can't do with WP.  1. horrible multi tasking  2. you cant change themes (android is way better in this) 3. very poor apis for developers  4. after 5 years they realized they need to add mouse and keyboard support to WP  5. LED notification  6. Notification center is horrible ( which was added after 3-4 yrs) 7. No Multi-screen
  • And that's just a partial list!  WP is not a "very good OS" but rather a terrible one.  webOS and Symbian were, in many ways, much full featured years ago than WP is today. I actually think this is MS' main problem with WP.  The app gap is a big deal, but people aren't turned off of WP principally because of the lack of apps, they're turned off because the platform itself is so horribly limited compared Android (and even iOS).  #1 and #6 are the biggies for the OS itself. But, getting back to the app situation for a moment, #3 probably more the reason for the horrible app support than low market share.  As far as I can tell, it is essentially impossible to write a really nice app for WP.  Even MS themselves can't do it, if we are to judge by the quality of their apps like Skype, News, etc.  They're just so crappy.  How come there's an app to control your music from your band if you are using an Android phone but not a Windows Phone?  Because there can be!  Worse, it doesn't look to me like W10 is going to do anything to alleviate this problem.  Universal apps aren't much good if they're crap.  That's why I think the end-of-the-road for WP is a lot closer than two years down the road.
  • most of the apps that are on android and IOS can't even be re-written for WP ... because of limited APIs. example tasker, memory managers etc.
  • LOL. They will be back. What is it with you naysayers and absolutes?
    Why do you assume that nothing will change when they are changing the way operating systems work with Win 10? No one has ever attempted this level of interoperability before and they are focusing their efforts on their strengths.
    If you and I were opposing boxers and I was CLEARLY about to throw an uppercut... you're saying you'd let me hit you with it because in the past 3 rounds I only threw jabs?
  • > they are changing the way operating systems work What the heck is so different about W10M?  I'm running it on an extra device (an L635) and it can't do anything my current phone (a One M8) can't do... The converse isn't true, however (for example, W10M doesnt' sync right with my Band).
  • A Surface Phone, if executed right, would spark the interest in Windows Phone / Mobile again. It will be the talk of the media for months. I suspect that Microsoft would ever do it though, although that is my dream.
  • you ppl with your surface phone..... you talk as if you could not enjoy a top notch lumia phone because it is named lumia and not surface..... get over it. quality > brand.
  • Well I want a Surface phone as well but I don't care if it's called Lumia or Surface. I'd PREFER Lumia, but it really doesn't matter. I just really like the quality of the Surface line and want Microsoft to treat the Lumia line the same way... Maybe even borrow materials and ideas from it as well. I'd LOVE a built in kickstand that cases were built to accommodate for instance.
  • Quality does NOT trump brand, not in the consumer real-world. Most consumers will buy anything that is popular or makes them feel cool or part of a larger group. Look at the quality and feature sets of Android and iOS over the years - frequent lockups, malware in Google Play, small mp cameras, freaking glass outer shells in iPhones - people still bought them in droves because it was the BRANDING. Lumia flagship phones almost always had better spec sheets, but never caught on in the major markets. The Lumia brand is dying. The Surface brand is hot right now. It's been universally praised as elegant and thoughtful design. If MSFT were to release a Surface phone it would fit right in with the One OS strategy that is Win10. This is my opinion, obviously, but I think it could be a big hit WITH THE RIGHT MARKETING...
  • Lumia never had better spec sheets at all! The only thing they can claim is the 40 megapixel version, and even then megapixels are not everything. The 8 megapixel iPhone destroys the camera in the 1020. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • You've obviously not used a 1020.
  • Not even in the top 10. The Nokia 808 beats it as well as the newest Google Nexus phone! That is a from a camera centric site that also tests mobile phone cameras. http://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles/Google-Nexus-6-Google-s-latest-handset-st... Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Um, the main alure of a Surface phone is that it will be based on the mobile phone version of the Intel Atom x7 SoC, making it x86 which in the enterprise is a big deal. And this is important since Satya clearly says MS will focus on the enterprise and flagships more than ever. And the main reason why a Surface phone hasn't been released yet is that it took them to WP 8.1 to really get their enterporise act together. And, they've been waiting on Intel as well. Prior to the x7, Intel just didn't have EVERYTHING in place. Now, their Atom based SoC has integrated 450 Mbps LTE, 64-bit, 4 cores, a big GPU, iris scanning, 4K display support, 24 MP camera support, and sips power just as well as the best ARM chips. The real question is how soon will it be released?
  • Lumias run ARM, at least so far.  The Surface phone people are sepculating/hoping about would be a whole different beast: a W10M phone with Intel inside.  A true PC in your pocket.
  • Why?
  • I need 740XL with 13mp camera , 5mp front camera with 5.5inch 720p screen , 16GB Internal storage Snapdragon 410/600 soc with 1.5GB RAM and camera shutter button and Hardware Capacitive buttons... With Lumia 830 design language with 2 directional microphones
  • I'd say, build one xD
  • There wont be a 740XL. They're not doing a big version of every phone they make. Cutting down remember.
  • I prefer the 7 series design to the 8, the 8 always seemed a little chunky whereas the 7X0 were sleek and shapely. Otherwise I reckon you may well get your dream. It just depends if for the mid range business focussed phone they make it cheap for sales, or go for a more reference design. ie will it be a 740 going down towards a 640 or up towards the 840.
  • I have for a while now, and have jumped off the bandwagon too. So things like this doesn't really bother me anymore
  • Right.... When Satya changes his mind again after looking at the poor sales of the next flagship, we will see if do you still have any confident left.... If he can just write off a $7.6 billion deal just like that, he can change his promises about making phones as well.
  • To cancel wp now would be utterly idiotic. Over the last year things started to move in the right direction.
  • Windows phone is dead. They don't even sell windows phone at the stores anymore :/ And costumers outside US don't get so much value out of windows phone. We don't have Cortana, Bing is working poorly, No apps and more. Microsoft's strategy has failed big! And am afraid thar Xbox One will follow windows phone here in Europe. We have to pay the same price as everyone else for a console that don't have everything that is supposed to have. No Voice commands, No "What's new", Tv integration works poorly :/
  • Yet everyone is happy with the ps4 that has none of those things anywhere?
  • No, but Everything whit Ps4 is working everywhere. I have been a Xbox gamer since the first Xbox and if it weren't for the good Xbox games I would buy a Ps4 instead.
  • Most cases we pay more
  • So after 2 years no more "Lumia"?
  • Wait, what? No, this means that they will give Lumia a chance for a least two years. Presumably if it is doing well, they will keep it around.
  • Isn't it doing well? If it really not, they will sell the Lumia division?
  • Well, if on two year doesn't take off, they can't go on right. This is the last breath.
  • Why can't they? Apple plodded on at 3% market share for Mac for decades. And even now they've only doubled that. Why can't Microsoft comfortably do the same if Windows phone market share also hover around 3% for years?
  • @coip
    That's a good argument you made. What I'm thinking is that Apple being high end, they still make money on every mac they sell. Microsoft probably don't make enough selling the low end devices even if they sell in volumes.
  • But what I'm reading from this news is that MS are going to be building better phones, ie. more reference designs like the Surface, than covering the market with a bit of everything (they have their OEMs for that). So I expect them to increase the price for the mid-range and high-end phones so that they do make better profits on them.
  • So what you're saying is they should treat Lumia like Surface and focus on making the cream of the crop reference design and refine it continuously, then introduce a low end affordable model and allow room for other manufacturers to fill in the gaps? My thoughts exactly!
  • This is exactly the point 99% of people here don't get. Success or failure can only be judged if you know what the aims are.
  • its absolutely doing horrible ... thats the reason of lay offs 
  • That is not the reason for the lay offs. Microsoft's wants OEMs to choose to manufacture windows phones, and that cant happen if they command the lion's share. They can't be in the volumes business anymore. They are moving to a we-make-reference-designs like the surface, and OEMs will take care of the rest kind of strategy. And for that, they wouldn't need a lot of employees. Any merger will give rise to a lot of redundancies. Considering the fact that nokia and Microsoft were, are giants in their own respect, the number of redundancies would have been ten fold. Microsoft may stop making phones, but windows mobile is not going anywhere.
  • Yeah, like the Surface lost almost a $billion dollars and was dead but now makes a profit. WP is being refined and will lead to a profit. W10 is predicted to have 1 billion users which is more than Apple and Android combined. WP, as is the Surface, is here to stay.
  • Android passed a billion users last year. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • That would include forked versions like Amazon which is not universal like Microsoft users.
  • I think that only counts OHA devices that access the Play Store. That is how Google gets the numbers. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Predicted is the wrong word there.
  • Well if not..
  • The question is what will be different in two years? Will Android lose appeal? Will Apple screw up? How will Microsoft advance the cause and convince users to consider it's phones, it's OS and it's selection of apps? Unless there is some magic brewing in the hills of Redmond, I don't think anything will be different. Meanwhile, millions of Android phones with Nokia branding will be rolling off assembly lines in China as the company Microsoft overpaid for and ultimately gutted, gets back in the phone business. 
  • They did it with Surface, they can do it with Lumias
  • We can only hope that Windows Phone becomes Surface.  Like the Surface; offer a Windows Phone Pro and Windows Phone.  2 current versions (one Flagship level and one Value level) with 2 older versions still floating around.  Both devices top quality running W10M.  Sell them at every carrier,  in retail outlets, and the Microsoft Store.  Add some snappy advertising on TV and the Web and you might have a plan so successful that Nadella can't complain.  After all, it seems to be working now for Surface.
  • Nothing will be different. They talked about this universal app thingy when W8 came out. They're doing the same again with W10. But has anyone taken the bite. I mean if companies like WalMart, Target, and Amazon with lots of money aren't wasting their time, why would companies with no money. Haven't heard anything about them bringing their apps over. Time to start saving my pennies. Apple looking mighty fine about now. I'm sure Bing maps will make the cut to them soon enough as well. Then I'll be golden.
  • That "universal thingy" came out only last summer. And we saw lots of apps and games embracing this approach. W10 is a huge improvement from both developer and user experience standpoint. Add tools for easy code conversion from Android and iOS to the mix and the platform is now a paradise to develop for. The only thing apart lack of flagships is the bad media. It's your choice to either follow it like any other consumer or be a doer with the most complete ecosystem I'm sure you've invested your money and time in.
  • Android and ios porting is what will make it break it.
  • Your answer is Windows 10. That's the 'magic'
    If it works remains to be seen
  • That's not good. I love Lumia.
  • The way I read this article, together with the many others that have been floating aroung lately, is that Microsoft will use Phone development as a kick-in-the-ass to the OEMs, the way Surface got them all to start making Windows tablets.  Once Microsoft sees the OEMs moving the ball forward then they can relax on building thier own hardware.
  • Yup that's what I was thinking
  • Except OEMs are not going to bother with a platform that is
  • Daniel, many people will think that. Maybe you shoud make very clear in the article that 2 years is the minimum, and probably will be more, and that W10 mobile will continue no matter what (as it it tied to W10) with other OEM's phones. Otherwise expect many "Why should I buy a WP if MS will abandon me in 2 years!" in the coming days and weeks. :-]
  • One year. That's my prediction. No more Windows Phones in 2017.
  • Don't need your prediction, w10m will be stay here for long time
  • I really hope that..the moment they will close windows phone division, i will be out of Microsoft network..
  • WP division will close just as the Surface division did......oh wait....the Surface now makes a profit and is here to stay......likewise for WP. Just stop being a drama queen!
  • You may be right.  I don't have a crystal ball.  But I would argue the platform has been dead since BoA and Chase backed out.  That was the end.  At this point, we're essentially starting from scratch.
  • BoA and Chase apps are irrelevant to most people.
  • Other OEMs - "Hmm,  MS is saying they will WP/WM phones for at least 2 years.. so, given that a phone takes about 12 months to develop, that's really just a year guaranteed, and most of those are already developed... they must really not feel really confident about this thing. I wonder if I should take that risk right now. Nah, I think I will wait at least a year to see if MS can make it work before I put my money into it."
  • Other OEMs - "Great, we can consider to make a WM device now, since the OS and the phones ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS".
  • That would be true if they had a larger global market share, but when its barely surviving, the leader of the pack slipping out such potentially confusing messages of their long term commitment does not help. But I do hope you are right, and futher, that Nadella has at least secured a couple of major OEMs' commitment to launch W10M devices before making such drastic cuts.
  • He didn't say even two years for sure. He just said they expect to. That leaves it open for him to kill it next week if he wants. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • "this means that they will give Lumia a chance for a least two years." and after that?? What if the sales of next flagship slips as well? Will he change his mind and cut off making phones immediately?? No one knows..... Regardless, Windows phone is coming to a stop pretty soon....
  • Daniel, I think the question was what happens after two years if it isn't doing well? This could be why MS has been so involved in making apps for other platforms lately, seemingly more so than its own
  • If you've followed W10 news it's easy to see that we haven't seen new apps only because of MS preparing them for the new OS release. I mean, we have all new Outlook suit, updated OneDrive app and Office is in the que. It's natural for a software giant to be everywhere. It just happend for new apps be still readied to have the most unique and complete experience for the upcoming OS release.
  • Thank you. Agreed!!! But no one on here listens
  • That's a fairly blinkered way of looking at it.
    The other, fact-based, way of looking at it is that MS is continuing to constantly update and improve their apps on other platforms with useful and unique features that won't come to Windows Mobile.
    Good luck holding out for something special from any of their own apps for Windows Mobile - you're in for a disappointment.
  • It's the same Nadella, who once said Windows Phone is not about market share..I wonder what happened to that..
  • What are these announcements implying anyway? That they will shut down WP altogether? I can understand if making phones might be unprofitable but Nadella keeps preaching cloud and mobile, remember?
  • Cloud to run on other mobile platforms. He doesn't say Windows Mobile specifically. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • To me it's ask about continuum. If they can pull it off right it can be a major business selling point. Deploy phablets that double as workstations. Execs will love them.
  • Let's face it, nothing will change in two years...
  • Everything will change in two years. It always does.
  • This is a self fulfilling prophecy. They're going to roll out the phones they've been working on, hardly anyone is going to risk purchasing them, and then MS will say they weren't successful enough. Done.
  • Problem is perception that even MS is not confident enough to commit beyond two years. The "at least" part doesn't really induce strong confidence. :) hope the guy who leaked gets his/her butt spanked.Well, even Apple has at least 4 models at any given time (I.e. iPhone 5, 5S and 5C are still selling and being manufactured).
  • even if msft gives 5 yrs its not going to do any good... better put a last nail in WP coffin and adopt CyanogenMod (since million $$ were donated to em)
  • Yes and BlackBerry will reign supreme in smartphones forever. I mean no one could change that. I mean look at their market share! Oh wait it isn't 2005...
  • Apple and Google are not BlackBerry or Microsoft. They won't sit on their heels while everyone is passing them by. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • no, after 2 years, third party hardware makers will take over. Microsoft will rise from the ashes like a phoenix from the flames!  
  • Where did ya'll get the special crack to smoke? For I don't know how else ye could come up with such crazy effin statements whether it be for or against MS.
  • It's like a re-run of the Surface. Lost lots of $$$ and was dead but now makes a profit. Some people never see the big picture lol
  • My fear: Not available in emergent markets (like Surface). Despite the huge Windows Phone market here in BRA. Sad face.    
  • If I find out it's not available in my country I'll ditch Windows Phone forever.
  • why waiting ... go buy android or iphone you will be happy 
  • iphone is for girls, and effeminate men.
  • Shut the f*ck up, what an ignorant fool.
  • Don't throw a hissy fit; you are just proving his point. :)
  • Lol
  • I've had both and WP is better.
  • ASPDEV Can you please just shut the f... up? Go away!
  • No I can't :)
  • Android is rubbish compared to WP as an OS. WP will be successful as is the Surface, end of. No need to go Android, ever.
  • Exactly my tough!!!
    And I'm expecting, if the high end be released here, will cost the same as an iPhone 6, 1200 dollars!
  • Blame your country's absurd import taxes for that not Apple/ MS / Sony. Not everyone will open a factory in Brazil to sell devices.
  • There's already Ex-Nokia factory here. Now it's a MS branded Factory over Manaus.
  • It doesn't have to be like that. If the item are not available officially, then the grey market importers charge whatever they want for the "you can't get this in the stores" premium, no price check.
  • If it costs the same as an iphone 6 you'll have a bargain.
    Lumia 940, the price of an iphone 6 but with double the specs and one year newer
  • Exact my thoughts if they are going with surface strategy then it's good but emerging markets will definitely suffer as surface 3 is not available in many regions out of us and same can happen with flagships
  • So... Nadella wasn't the champion Windows mobile (or really, Microsoft as a whole) needed after all.
  • How you figure?
  • Maybe if Elop had become the CEO WM would have been a success.
  • Because he did so well at running Nokia...
  • I was thinking more if the Ford guy became CEO. He had more experience as CEO and a good track record at Ford.
  • What exactly is the barometer? 10 million, 40 million? Seems very vague. Technically if MS gains 5% market share that would be a huge win but still an epic failure from a shareholder/corporate view. So who or what will decide if they are successful in 2 years????
  • I'm guessing profit.
  • Everyone just needs to RELAX!!! Apple makes two new phones every year - ENOUGH SAID. Windows will make 3-6 and Samsung/HTC will fill in the gap. Done.
  • Keep dreaming.
     
  • Sounds good
  • Repeat : Keep dreaming about Samsung and HTC
  • Good to see they have restructured to maintain profitability and quicker time to market ability, the COO Kevin Turner's email makes a lot of sense as Microsoft has made the surface line to profitable by maintaining a slim line-up not releasing tens of devices every year.
  • Whoever will make Windows Phone device in the future, as long as it is a quality device then they will have my money.
  • I think they did the layoffs too soon. They should have released a stellar flagship first then do the layoffs. I've been waiting for a flagship to jump ship from Android but I've lost all confidence the platform will stick around.
  • "They should have released a stellar flagship first then do the layoffs"
    Why? People would have automatically associated Flaghship + Layoffs = Phone is a dud, not selling.
  • The fact is: Two years or game over. Its sad, but its true. :(
  • They'll still make Windows 10 ...just not their own phones.
  • And do you think other OEMs are going "great, MS may get out of WM in 2 years time, now its the time for us to jump in!" :)
  • That would have created hysteria during flagship release time/ review time, better to do it now than later on. If you have lost confidence even after reading that MS will be concentrating on 3 core segements including flagships then you are free to go with Android/ios.
  • I think they've made the best of a bad situation by announcing all this now... Get all the negative news well out of the way, before building momentum towards W10, W10M, flagships, SP4?, Hololens, Band2 etc etc. They've bitten the bullet, hit CTRL-ALT-DELETE, and are now restarting the system...
  • you cant continue burning cash in a dying platform, CEO must had a pressure from investors. I wont be surpised if they discontinue lumia in a yr
  • If you think WP is so dead, why are you spending all this time on a WP site? Maybe you should go back under your bridge.
  • This isn't a WP site, it's site for all things Microsoft. Many people love Microsoft's products, and that's what draws them here in the first place, but not everyone who visits here uses a Windows Phone.
  • Last time I checked it says "Windows Central" which means all things Windows, not all things Microsoft. That's the thing you see. Windows 10 is basically the same across all devices - not considering the UI. If you're saying the platform is dying with Windows 10 for phones, you're basically saying Windows 10 is dying. So it doesn't make sense for you spending time on a Windows site unless you're either just trolling or have nothing else better to do.
  • That makes absolutely no sense. Saying that Windows Phone is dying is not saying that Windows as a whole is.
  • Mmmm... what makes no sense is to think Windows 10 for phones is dying when it's basically the same as Windows 10 for PC and for tablets. And it's not even released yet.
  • STOP windows 10 and windows 10 mobile aren't same ... basically both will run Runtime environement which will allow universal apps to run thats it. windows 10 mobile wont run win 32 apps so they arent same.  even with this I don't think any one is eager to write apps for universal platform ... so give 2 more yrs and wait until msft adopts Cyanogenmod 
  • Hehe... Who should I believe about Windows 10, the troll or Microsoft?
  • well I dont care whom you believe ... if both were the same OS then why windows mobile is not released on july 29th ? give 3-4 months and find out your self ... if I was right or wrong 
  • Because of the difference in the UI? For an ASP dev you certainly "know" what you're talking about - NOT! :-)
  • did I even say anything about UI ? I gave you the reason why they are not same OS 
  • And have you seen the code yourself to say they are not the same? How hard is it for MS devs to put in code that says "if you're running on x86 use this but if you're running on ARM use that"? X86 part will be completed 29th of this month, ARM part will be completed 3-4 months after - Windows as a service, continuous updates and improvements. So as an ASP dev, that didn't even cross your mind and you ask silly questions like "if they're the same then why are they not released the same time"?
  • No, Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile are NOT the same, but they can both run the same Universal Apps.
  • Here, you and the ASP dev should read this. http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2014/09/30/announcing-windows-10
  • @spaulagain I may not use lame WP any more ... i still use windows ... if you have problem with my comment why you spent time in replying ?
  • It doesn't mean we don't love the device we are CURRENTLY using.  I happen to feel my Lumia 1020 was the last, best Windows Phone.  And, based on how horrible I feel W10 is and where the fool Nadella is taking Microsoft, I'm doubtful that I'll buy another device.
  • I'm in a similar boat... not that I'm necessarily eager to leave Android (I love the platform), but I was definitely going to by a 2nd phone to try out Windows 10 Mobile. My concern at this point is that the platform will not attract enough developers to get the apps I enjoy on Android today.
  • Nadella could come out and walk on water and share the cure for cancer and people would assume it means he's canceling Windows mobile.
  • About right.
  • Getting close...
  • But if Nokia will start to do smartphones with Android again
  • Ever hear the expression "Too little, too late"? It applies there too. Microsoft poached (and kept) all the Nokia mobile talent they needed. Samsung is struggling with Android, Nokia can have their go if they want, but I do not see them as a threat and neither should you.
  • Well said Daniel
  • Daniel could have said "eat after-birth," yet some sycophants here would say good idea man, good idea, will do...
  • LOL. Best comment I've heard in a while. I'm a WP user and its shocking to see how many people try to rationalize and justify Microsoft's contually bad decisions.Does anybody here really believe that Microsoft CANNOT make a better windows phone? With more features, more animations, more functionality than is currently available?   Making a successful product isn't that hard. Give the people what they want. Both iOS and Android understand this. How are they able to do this and somehow MS can't or won't. I mean, simple things like making the interface attractive. For instance, how many WP users actually like WP lockscreen. I don't. I absolutely hate it! The friggin' thing is static and hideous. And why doesn't MS do anything about it? Are their designers blind? God only knows. As for the App Gap, that's a nighmare in itself.  And I don't care how many reasons the 'experts' on this forum provide, making better apps for other platforms while neglecting your own is unforgiveable. Looking at and debating over what's in the public eye is one thing, but how many people really have any clue what's going on behind the scenes. Get this thru your heads...whatever their rationale, MS does not give a rat's behind about windows phones! That is patently obvious. Keep fooling yourselves for as long as you want. The world will keep on turning.
  • You are leaving out one important thing though Daniel... Brand value... You could argue the same keeping Samsung in point on brand but believe me, Nokia is HUGE in India and Europe. Literally huge in terms of brand...
  • Considering the Microsoft-branded Lumia 535 quickly passed every Nokia phone to be the top selling WP in India, I'd say their brand value is not as big as you think it is.
  • People still think Lumia is from Nokia!
  • Agreed. The 535 did well because of the Lumia brand..which was created by Nokia! MSFT rides on the back of that brand recognition. Yeah, its not as powerful a brand as it once was but is still known for it stellar hardware and innovation. If Indians see a TV advert showing the 'NOKIA' logo making a comeback..Boom! Lumia sales will be affected, atleast here in India.
  • Yes it is. I bought WP only because of it says Nokia on it. I'll see if W10M is/does good, else planning for an Android fs or an iPhone..
  • The QUALITY isn't there.  I have the 635 that I purchased specifically to test Windows 10 Mobile.  It's a piece of junk compared to previous models.  Microsoft squandered the brand.
  • If there was such a strong brand value, Nokia would still be making phones.
  • that's non sense Rubino 
  • Who knows how much of the mobile talent is left, but I agree that Nokia is highly unlikely to become a big player in mobile (phones) again. P.S. that expression probably applies to W10M as well
  • Samsung makes an assload of money off of Android, I'd hardly label them as struggling. Nokia's N1 Android tablet sells out within 5 minutes every time they are released, I'm pretty sure they'll find success with Android phones.
  • I am trying to picture an "assload of money"... It's not working...
  • Roll a pile of $1000 notes into a tight roll and... nevermind. :P
  • To be fair, they released about 20k tablets 4 times in a billion people market so... not sure that is really proof enough yet that Nokia can make it either. :) hope they will.
  • Nokia's name would sell a bunch of Android phones for sure. The N1 is licensed design+brand. The financial burden is pushed to someone else, the manufacturing and quality isn't really under Nokia's control but it's the same chinese factories that make everything else. Just like many people outside the US bought Windows Phones for the Nokia brand, many would do the same with Android. The time limit before Nokia can get back to phones in that deal (end of 2015) was way too short. 
  • For a moment I thought you were talking about MS and WP. :P
  • I suspect they are leaving room for other device makers to step in to fill in the gaps. They weren't leaving any room for others to compete, this changes that. But we still get flagships to demonstrate Windows mobile vision.
  • That's certainly the positive way of viewing it.  Pesonally, I don't agree with the idea that Microsoft squeezed everyone else out. They were/are 90+% because no one wants to make Windows Phones at 2.whatever % market share. Not because Microsoft had some sort of competitive advantage. After all, 90% of 2.whatever % needs to really be put in perspective.  But, I suppose we'll see. I lean more towards this being a slow, steady exit. I have no doubt they'll try to push mobile Windows as much as possible, but I suspect they're fully ready to embrace a future where they're a services company on iOS/Android, as opposed to their old paradigm that got them into such much trouble in the first place. 
  • My first smartphone was the Samsung Focus.  It was a decent device.  But when I bought the Lumia 900, there was no way I was going with another brand.  I followed that up with the 920 and the 1020, both of which I still have.  Both look, feel and function very well.  Nobody has come out with any device, regardless of ecosystem, that comes close, as far as I'm concerned.  They are all garbage to me.  I agree this is very likely the slow exit.  Microsoft took that awesome potential of Nokia's devices division and ruined it.  And now I don't expect to see any device that shines like the Lumia 1020 did.
  • That's the same thought I have. They've already announced lots of hardware partners. So its important to give them room.I think that's all about it.
  • I am starting to lose faith. Been waiting to hear what new phone is coming to finally replace my 920 and no news except trimming the phone division maybe not make phone's any more two years from now. Sigh might be time to look at a different phone. Too bad I enjoyed my 920 best phone I've owned.
  • I mean, I even tell you when the new Lumia 940 will be announced, which is a big scoop, but...okay.
  • Some people just don't get it. I think with all that Microsoft has in the works, right now has to be the dumbest time for WP loyalists to ditch. I'm definitely holding out til then. I'll even switch carriers this time if I have to. Oh and Dan, keep the scoops coming.
  • I will hold on to my Lumia 730 till then..and if microsoft will still support windows phone at that time, i will get a new Lumia..may be Lumia 750..i hope they will support it forever..
  • Scoops of heaping, steaming dog shit...
  • Well, I guess that depends on what you think of what Microsoft is doing.  I hate Windows 10, both on the PC and the phone.  I've been testing both from the beginning, and there is absolutely nothing I like about them.  And there is no way they can rescue this platform as far as I'm concerned.  I absolutely love Windows 8 on both devices.  At this point, the best I can hope for is to make my Lumia 1020 last as long as possible, and keep all my production PCs/tablets on Windows 8.1.  None of the phones rumored impress me in the least.  Certainly not enough to put down my 1020 and put up with the frankenstein that is W10.  A year ago I had high hopes.  Now, nada.
  • Just wait...they say they've lost faith and will ditch the "dying/dead" platform just because of an article that depicts a little bit of bad news, but the second Microsoft reveals the flagship they will come running back, stick their foot in their mouth and praise the mobile OS. It's how people on this site operate.
  • Doesn't change the fact that in 2 years it could all be over for the platform.
  • In 2 years, windows phone could be #2. Who knows. I am all I and will worry about what happens in 2 years, when and if anything happens until then will enjoy the new flagship.
  • +960!
  • +980!
  • There will never be another true flagship for Windows Phones.  There may one or two so-called high-end devices, but I've given up on ever seeing another flagship.
  • You can leave now and get a head start.
  • No, in 2 years they could decide to stop making their own phones. Doesn't mean there wouldn't be OEMs making phones and W10M is dead. Some of you people need to learn how to read. The ignorance is ripe in these comments.
  • Third world effect...you have to overlook the tripe...
  • Sure, yet this leak doesn't necessarily increase other OEMs confidence in the platform. "Hmm, even MS may be out of it in 2 years time.."
  • Hopefully your prediction is right. I'm able to recontract my phone plan in October. Currently have an iPhone 6plus, but considering another switch away from Apple after having a 930 for about 4 months. That was a very nice phone, and I should have kept it, but anyway, if the next Windows Phone is ready to go on sale around the time I'm allowed to upgrade and turns out to be a great phone, I might just switch over (again). If not I'll probably just stick with the next iPhone, tried Android 3 times and never wanted to stay.
  • You say announced, but does that mean we will have option to buy straight away, or have to wait 3-6 months? (I still don't see either phone as a true replacement for my lumia1020 picture wise)
  • Announcing needs to be followed by a very good (read new) marketing effort, availability in store, and retailers, and for Pete"s sake they need to be available WHEN ANNOUNCED FROM ALL CARRIERS. If MS doesn't change the way they market phones......well you know
  • Daniel, have you actually seen 940 yourself yet? :)
  • Now developers will make even less apps for Windows Phone.
     
  • Well, that means they are making fewer apps for Windows 10 since they are one and the same. If that is the case, then Microsoft is screwed everywhere as everything is riding on the UWA model.
  • The problem I have with the UWA model is that hardly anyone actually wrote apps for Windows 8/8.1.  The UWA model would be fantastic if the reality was that developers had embraced Windows 8/8.1, but didn't want to bother writing apps for WP 8/8.1, due to WP's market share.  That isn't the reality. I have not seen a single argument that isn't based on smoke and mirrors that can explain why a developer that ignored Windows 8/8.1's app store (because, let's face it, why bother if most of those users can just use a web browser to access your service), is suddenly going to decide to write a Windows 10 app. Talking about Windows' market share ignores the Windows 8/8.1 market share elephant in the room. 
  • That's because WIndows 8 apps are not "real" apps, they're written in Silverlight + CS code behind and/or HTML + Javascript. People that want to write windows applications don't really want to write in either of those languages. Windows Universal Apps are "Real" applications from a developers point of view, where you can actually write some meat and potatoes applications and not be forced to use web frameworks to write native windows apps. Not only that the end user experience was pretty disjointed. I see where Microsoft were going with their Windows 8 app strategy, wanting to woo developers in by using familiar languages, but Universal Apps are a COMPLETELY new ball game. MOST IMPORTANT: They're not disjointed end user experience. WINDOWS developers (.net developers) can use code they're familiar with to build the powerful functionality they want in a windows desktop application. Web developers can easily convert their webapps into Universal Apps. Android developers can easily convert their apps into Universal Apps. iOS can too, with a bit of extra work.  
  • W10 should have much bigger market share due free upgrade so that could help a bit on app front. Plus support to reuse Android code for mobile apps and ios code for all apps.
  • I have the same concerns. Let's be honest, Windows Apps on the phone are already far better than desktop windows store apps. I don't think the phone has much to gain by getting the desktop apps. The difference with Windows 10 will be the free upgrade, which hopefully will get a bigger (and happier) install base faster than Windows 8 did, and that the Windows Store apps on Windows 10 act much more like traditional apps in a window and aren't so off-putting. It will still be a hard sell to convince a traditional app developer to abandon all older versions of Windows for the opportunity to also run on a  phone platform with almost no marketshare.
  • Well, you finally said something I can really get behind. This is THE elephant in the room and the only thing that matters. What makes you think that Windows 10 is going to be any different than Windows 8? I'd enjoy an indepth article about what Microsoft is and is not doing to get Andoird/iOS developers on board, and what they NEED to be doing.  IMO that should be throwing their mountain of cash at the developers to develop and fully support Windows 10. If they don't, I fear all is lost for Windows Phone, as well as the Windows 10 modern apps. 
  • A lot changes between 8.1 and 10 for developers. A lot. 8.1 "universal apps" were in spirit only; 10 is literally the same app now.
  • I don't understand how the apps being truly universal changes the developer situation at all. Is your reasoning that everyone is going to upgrade to Windows 10 and therefore developers won't be able to help themselves but to support the platform?  How many W8 devices are out there, 250m? The modern app situation in Windows 8,1 is no better than the WP app situation. 
  • The percentage of people using Windows 8 "Modern" apps is small. Mostly only Windows Tablet users. Desktop users never touched them. Universal apps however are just one app for tablet, phone, and desktop users. So even if you're creating desktop apps, it's basically effortless on your part to expand them out to tablet and phone users. The modern app situation by the way isn't really that bad on the Windows store. It's like Android, a ton of useless junk but also some pretty decent apps. I don't find I go without on the store.
  • "Desktop users never touched them."  Where did you get this idea? I use apps on Windows 8 desktop all of the time. I know many others that do too. I don't really care for tablets.
  • Why? I have not found a single Windows App that superior to using the web on my Surface Pro 3. Even app I have used has been compete garbage. The level of quality in the store is pathetic! Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • You need to go read. MS had an entire conference where they went into great detail about developing for Windows 10. It's drastically better than Windows 8. Stop arm chair guessing and watch the videos, and read their documentation.
  • Like you said before..."too little, too late"... Applies here too...
  • Windows 10 mobile isn't done in 2 years. The idea is to let other manufacturers see win10 mobile doing well in that time and build their own devices, then Microsoft will focus on the software and less on the hardware.
  • That's what I get out of it. They didn't say WP would be completely shut down-only MS wouldn't be making phones anymore. Nardella keeps hammering cloud and mobile so what good is cloud and mobile without phones?
  • SURFACE PHONE!!!!!
  • According to my source MSFT will be making phones 2 more years!!! Then what??? It might nor look a lot, but there's a lot of people out there that uses WP, I like the fact that they will inteduce premium phones faster and quicker, ditch sprint Verizon and tmobile, and hive it all to att, dont adjust to custumerz, let them adjust to the phones, that how you can concentrate on updates, volume and quality... Enough said
  • No, sell the fuckin phones unlocked by MS, that's it.
  • Just give me a phone to replace my 1020, Microsoft! Something to rival iPhone 6 and Samsung Galaxy S6! You've got some catching up to do!
  • YES! LET'S GO! MICROSOFT!
  • WP is going nowhere. Even if, knock on wood, MS stops its phones, they will make WP attractive for their OEM partners to continue on with WP. Having only two players in the mobile software business is not good for business. I wouldn't want the Lumia line to discontinue and I honestly feel it won't, but even if it did, WP will continue on. IMHO!!
  • If this is true I think that MS will stop producing phones but only if other OEM's like Samsung, LG, HTC embrace Windows and make good phones.
  • I love my WP, and I plan to stick with Windows OS, but stuff like this shakes my confidence a bit. I'll need a new phone soon, and it will be a WP, but I'm more hesitant to extend myself now. Whereas I might have considered a higher end phone before, I'm thinking to look on the cheap end until Microsoft gets itself together, and my patience is beginning to take a beating. Posted via Windows Phone Central App
  • Why? They have specifically mentioned that they will be focussing on three core segements including Flagships then why not get a flagship if you love WP, even this rumour says new phones for atleast 2 years which is an eternity in phone market. so, i  don't understand such statements, wants MS to establish itself and loves WP but will buy low-end but then  will cry for flagship in every articles, WP fans are the most ficckle.
  • I SAID THAT! Only two phones: Flagship (940 and 940XL) and mid (low price, good specs: 640 and 640XL). Thats enought! And the fact is: Two years or game over. The time is running.
  • Other sites are apple, google sheep, i have all devices, and windows 10 mobile blow off the others
  • So their leaving the Canadian market?
  • Just hurry up with a flagship phone already !!
  • surprise us with Surface Phones.  Lumia is just not synonymous with microsoft products.  It is a Nokia name.
  • Surface phones for business and high end.
  • Agreed! The Lumia name needs to go and soon!!
  • 2 yrs.....dang idk that's not a lot of time. Windows 10 better be a hit. I can't see a level headed consumer putting any investment into this ecosystem right now, or I should say any significant amount of them.
  • 2 years is a lot in phone market and this 2 year thing is a rumour not confirmed fact.
  • Bloomberg is a pretty reliable source
  • This is what you get when you send a press release that needs to be interpreted. Nadella is about as unclear as possible. I don't know if it's a strategy or a curse for Microsoft.
  • The art of "not denying and not confirming" It leaves room to escape when things become ugly
  • Lumia 5** and 6** series Lumia phones are value windows phones... With poor build quality, hardware with flaws, always old processor use, and not so appealing design, it is the scenario till half of 2015. What's next we don't know?
  • Check out the new 640. You would change your mind about the 600 series.
  • Lumia 640s, oh I see use old Snapdragon 400 processor( that means no performance boost), No improvement in design except rounded sides, low quality finger print magnetizer glossy back shell ; areas of improvements of it over it's predecessor is large HD display, 1 gb RAM, battery upgrade and sensors.
  • Tell us all how the galaxy Avant goes against the 640 and js priced 70bucks more. The 640 is walking all over phones at work. My job is to tech phones, allllllll day, the 640 is great.
  • Lumia 640 is the shizz, really nice phone. Microsoft did well on that one, as well on the XL.
  • I think 6 phones a year is perfect! Between 6 Lumias and phones from HTC, BLU and whoever else makes WP devices these days there will be more than enough choice in the WP world. Apple makes one (or two) phones a year and that isn't a problem. WP is like the perfect medium between the over saturated Android market and the 1 phone a year iOS market. I'm even more excited for the future with WP10 and this news.
  • Tbh, however things play out, I'd want Microsoft to have a Surface like program for all its device types including phones. Phasing out phones completely would be such a bummer. If they can make at least one phone as good as Surface Pro 3 every year, I'll prefer it over any other OEM partners of Microsoft.
  • The phone isn't the problem. It's the lack of apps. Do you ever see an app advertised with a Windows Store logo next to Android and apple? Ever?? That shit is job one! If Microsoft doesn't understand that then there is no hope.
  • Why hang this albatross around Windows 10's neck so close to release?
  • It is not close to Windows 10 Mobile release, better to do such mobile divison layoff announcements now than in October which would have created havoc after Windows 10 mobile release and 940,940Xl release. Besides this 2 years thing is just rumour not confirmed fact.
  • There is no other time to do it. Though I'm not sure why they didn't announce this last Friday afternoon right before the holiday weekend.
  • Only value phones, high end phones and business smartphones, may be we are going to see end of 7** and 8** Lumia series smartphones.
  • WP is still alive and kicking...
  • I don't mean end of Lumia smartphones, but if they are going to provide only value, high end and business oriented smartphones, then there would be no more mid rangers smartphones, i.e. 7** and 8** series smartphones which sit in lower mid range and upper mid range segment of Lumia phones
  • I'm a bit worried about the idea that they're going to pull out of markets that they haven't been successful in. That could well mean Canada, which has seen poor WP sales, and I've been eagerly anticipating the opportunity to replace the iPhone 6 I've been using with a 940.
  • Yup, as a Canadian I too am worried. The Lumia 830 is available on Bell, Rogers and Telus, and it's the first and only Lumia to be on all three major carriers here, so hopefully that means they'll all carry the 940 as well, maybe. I've got a 1020 and my contract is up in early October so I'm praying that Telus will get the 940XL or even just the 940. Telus has supported Windows Phone from the very beginning during the 7 days, so I really, really hope they'll carry at least one of the two upcoming flagships.
  • Microsoft better not bail on Canada.  It's no secret that Canada is the worst country in the world for Windows Phone, but it's not our fault that THE PHONES AREN'T MADE AVAILABLE TO US!!!!  The Lumia 920 was crippled by carrier exclusivity, and then we didn't get the Lumia 925, 930, or 1520.  Microsoft pulled off a miracle by launching the Lumia 830 on Bell, Telus, and Rogers, but it was overpriced as a mid-range device.  None of us wanted to "side-grade" from Lumia 920 and ATIV S to an 830. How are Canadians supposed to buy Windows Phones when they aren't offered to us to begin with?
  • I wouldn't be too worried about Canada.  Canada is important to Microsoft now.  They announced they are opening a new data centre there which is a huge deal, and they have a number of Microsoft Stores there as well.  Based on the post, they will probably leave the 'carrier relationship' with Rogers (who screws Windows all the time by barely promoting it or their reps with biased opinions).  Instead, I can see them focus on selling unlocked devices in their Microsoft Stores and online.  Which I wouldn't mind at all! :D
  • The shoe has not dropped as to which countries are being abandoned.
  • If Microsoft isn't in it for the long haul, why spend all those resources unifying the OS and universal app story?
  • Microsoft has nowhere mentioned they are not in the long haul, they are streamling the phone line-up to three core segments: Value, Bussiness and Flagship. Many websites have just resorted to making assumptions.
  • My comment is based on the message of "at least 2 years." The message from Microsoft should be that they will not stop making devices period.
  • Microsoft has not sent out a message of " atleast 2 years" this is just assumption from a website. MS has clearly said they remain committed to smartphones and Lumia hardware, don't know what else people need, personal phone call from Satya?
  • They ARE in it for the long haul... hence why they are doing the successful "Surface strategy" with it.  Nokia was a mess releasing so many devices too close to each other.  Now they are focusing on 3 levels of high quality devices per year for the next 2 years (just like how Surface had 2 levels of devices per year).  Once this starts selling better, they'll continue with that model.  They are not canning it at all.  They are just saying they are giving this new (and much better) strategy a 2 year period to see how it does.
  • The Surface 3 is successful because it is a really nice laptop replacement. It is unique hardware and noticeably nicer than any of the Windows Competition (Apple still destroys the Surface). The mobile market is much harder to compete in. Competing platforms have far superior ecosystems and hardware up to this point. Unless they can really bring some unique hardware that can go toe to toe with the GS6 Edge or iPhone 6 and make people forget the ecosystem issue, people will continue to ignore Windows Mobile. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Which means in another 2 years we can expect an article from Daniel explaining why dropping Windows Mobile was the correct decision by Microsoft :P
  • Well, what they are doing now isnt really working, so....
  • Are they do capable without Nokia, I think MS would be getting success by investing more money.
  • If phones truly use the same OS as tablets and PCs, and someone uses the larger device for daily work running W10, a phone with W10 seems like a no brainer. The only reason I can see the phones failing is if W10 is a failure for one or more form factors, due to usability with device size, and if app disparity is a continuing theme.
  • Microsoft can also make the phones fail extremely easily just by making the top model again exclusive to one carrier. They certainly have practiced that method enough. 640 XL... did somebody mistake XL to mean Xtra Large? Nope, it stands for Xc Lusive.
  • AT&T and possibly Verizon will be the only carriers in the U.S. to get the flagships. That's the way it's always been, and I seriously doubt it will change.
  • "The company will also exit deals with carriers and countries where it hasn't been successful" Guess this could mean no hope for a flagship Lumia device in Canada...or maybe no devices at all here.
  • Wrong.  It's actually better this way, because currently most Windows phones in Canada are locked to Rogers.  They'll probably focus more on unlocked phones in their Canadian Microsoft Stores and online! :)
  • I really hope so. The most we got at Canadian Microsoft stores is the Lumia 830. The flip case for the 1520 showed up online, but without a price...was hoping that they would start selling a flagship soon.
  • Only thing I got out of this article was "high-end".  Hopefully, they are really high end and not an "affordable" kind.  Although I am already prepared to purchase a top-end device, the rumored 940 doesn't seem all that stellar to me.  I was hoping for a 1020 replacement.  And I think I may hold off until the new year because I'm sure there is one in the pipeline somewhere.
  • If 940/940XL with 6/8 core processor, 20-24 MP camera, 3GB ram, Quad HD screen is not "high-end" then you will not find any high-end phone from any other company. As Daniel has clarified many times, there is no 1020 replacement in the pipeline as it was a niche device so it is better not to wait for it and go for 940/940XL or some other phone from some other company which you find to be high-end.
  • The niche was the differentiator. I can get better specs than what you said currently on another platform. Why wait for something that is a year behind, just for software?
  • There is better camera quality, build quality, design, sunlight legibility, gloves usability, call quality etc But the biggest differentiater is indeed software, if you don't love Windows phone then it doesn't makes any sense to stay on this platform and No Snapdragon 808 and 810 are not 1 year old, they have been just released.
  • I realize Daniel has more insights to these things, but again, I find it very hard to believe there isn't a 1020 replacement somewhere in the near future.  My fear is that come this fall I'll end up buying a 940X and 3 months later here comes the 1030 or some other 1020 replacement.  And just because I want something a little different from the 940 that doesn't mean I want to go to some other company.  I am a Microsoft junkie!  I am not interested in any other brand or company.  But I still would prefer an updated high-end camera centric phone. 
  • The Lumia 1020 sold like crap. It was a niche device that they'll probably not try making again.
  • It sold based on where it was being sold. At least here in the states it was only sold on AT&T. That doesn't help when you're on another carrier and you don't plan on leaving that carrier. It came (or could be bought) for TMobile earlier this year, but who wants to buy an older phone?
    -----------
    Basically I don't get this "niche" argument either... It's a phone. I run apps. Just because it has a superior camera makes it a "niche"? It's just a phone with a better camera than most. And so be it if it cost a few more dollars some of us can afford it.
  • The camera isn't really special these days and Microsoft hasn't exactly shown they are still capable of making mobile cameras to compete with the GS6 or G4. Why would they bother when the last one didn't even sell. At least now they could put out a device with more than a decent camera. The 1020 was outdated when it was released. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I don't what's going to happen, but I'll stick with wp until it's over.
  • LOL... good :)... all you need to know is it's good news.  They are going to focus on making 3 high quality phones (high-end flagship, low-end, and business-centric) per year instead of releasing a bunch of random similiar phones going forward.
  • Same here.
  • Thankfully the majority of tech bloggers already hate on MS and own iPhones and Android already. Even majoirty of IT workers I work with are the same, therefore these guys who write and read this news won't stop buying WP because they already weren't. The millions of Lumia's are sold to those who don't care or a MS loyalists like myself and these same consumers will keep the millions selling as the next lot of Lumias and WP's come along. The annoying thing is the haters can't see that MS has done exactly what they should've done in cutting the fat and stopping the Nokia phone model of all these painful releases consisting of new low end model after new low end model. MS obviously released those as they were already under way before they took over, and it's obvious the lack of flagship is cause they've been getting those other models out of the way so they can now concentrate on the flagship. But as I've always said, as long as MS keep on making Lumias and supporting Windows Mobile I'm a happy man. And there's no way they're ditching Windows 10 Mobile in the foreseeable future. The tech media announced the death of WP back at it's release in 2010 yet it's 2015 and they're still going.
  • +1000.
  • If it was so clear as day... and it was.. who were the idiots who were running the show with the bright idea of releasing a ton of low end phones? Will they get fired?  
  • Nokia never changed course from what drove them to be acquired: more phone models further and faster down market than you could shake a stick at. It killed Nokia, it was killing Lumia. Good decision. Now, give us great, unique phones we can proudly show of to our over-Googled friends.
  • They need a new CEO.
  • Yep, they are killing Microsoft as an american company. This is a clear move towards shipping jobs off to somewhere else. They implemented that Trojan horse at Nokia and brought it down and now they have the same trick pulled on them. Irony!
     
  • This is not good...
  • Why not?  This is great news IMO.  They are finally cleaning the mess that Nokia made, and moving the Lumia line to a more focused strategy like the successful Surface line :)
  • Start the clock, d-day minus 730!
  • My next phone upgrade is in March. That's how long I'm giving the platform to show some evidence of resurgence, or I'll be switching back to Android (I know, booo/hiss/blahblah). If WP 10 is releasing this fall, it'd be nice if we got any concrete news of a flagship phone. Waiting until September seems rather late.  And, while I'm relatively fine giving Microsoft a pass with WP 10 coming out this fall, as an excuse for why they appear to be far more comitted to both iOS and Android when it comes to their own apps (especially their Garage division) than WP, it's still one of those things where I wonder how in the world they expect developers to reverse their ignoring of the platform (relative to iOS/Android) if even they, themselves, appear to be relegating it to the background on the app front.  Please don't push me to go back to a plastic piece of hardware garbage (I actually think Android, as an OS and platform with its apps, is quite good; but, I HATE their phones and ABHOR the manufacturer's UI skins like Touchwhiz, while Nexus phones have traditionally been produced with a glaring deficiency...battery or camera...presumably on purpose so as to not step on third party's feet).  Give me the crazy love child of a 1020 and 1520 with cutting edge specs please. 
  • I will use Windows Phone as long as possible, even if I have to keep buying used Lumia 940s on eBay for a decade. I'll go back to feature phones before I ever go back to Android or iPhone.
  • They will have to pry Windows Phone/Mobile out of my cold, dead hands. I will not give in to the Duopoly, where less choice will only mean less innovation.
  • Microsoft isn't exactly bringing the innovation. Android and iPhone are enough to push each other forward, especially since manufacturers are free to innovate with Android as they have the source. Windows Phone certainly isn't near enough pressure to make a difference and it doesn't seem like it ever will. Windows Phone will merely kill innovation as it is reliant on Microsoft to actually innovate. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I'm the most skeptical! I get to be a negative Nancy at times! My 1520 has a cracked screen! And even I feel ms will pull the stops on the next phone that's coming out! And as much as I want to hate ms, I just can't see my self using another os at all! As pissed as I am about no flagships now, ill just wait because even I feel it will come out with a sweet flagship! Oddly as much as I'm hoping it will be a failure ( in my crazy head of mine) its probably going to be really nice phones!
  • Well, assuming New Zealand isn't one of the countries 'dropped', i'd love to go into a store one day and see Lumia's sitting in the display stands next to a Surface, even as a 'Surface' phone. Basically a 'this goes well with that'. Don't know about other countries, but here most people haven't heard of a Windows Phone because there's near zero visibility of them. The Surface on the other hand has plenty of Ads, and most people know what they are.  
  • If you have Surface, you're probably in the few markets that matters for Microsoft, so the Windows Phone will be there too. Unlike the markets seen as insignificant waste of money for them.
  • Perfect timing for the return of Nokia mobiles on Android at the end of 2016. Real pity as I love this OS and have been with it since L800. Nokia designed phones produced by Foxconn running android is not what I would really like but this asshole company called microsoft has forced my hand. They stopped supporting this OS the moment they released unique features to other platforms and superior apps. I will never own a handset with microsoft branding so my L930 is my last WP I guess. Nothing can save WP now as even Microsoft has given up. 2 years is not a performance review it is winding down, laying off thousands and the absence of any flagships or investments should paint a clear picture. This site has to optimistic and even their changing of the site name and focusing more and more on pc, tablets and xbox says even more about the future of windows phone. Be honest Dan you know microsoft is killing off mobile os. Continuum........ What a fucking joke. Only hope for microsoft mobile is to make a surface phone that intergrates fully with p.c and xbox. Won't happen though.... Unless Gates realizes what this hans moleman satya has done to his creation and sends him packing. Gabe seems to be doing a great job fighting a losing battle but Joe the Pinocchio must go too. Laying ppl off, closing sections and not supporting their own products gives the market zero confidence in this company and their own employees (what's left) will also have no confidence especially with job security. Molemans cancer has spread to the delight of google and apple (which gates bailed out and supported). Daniel you carry an iphone. Nuff said
  • I haven't lost faith, but this 920, ex-1520, 930, Surface 2, & Surface 3 owner is a little cautious now. Makes me almost want to wait 2 years to see what happens before I invest any more money in their products. Who am I kidding. I'll probably still get Cityman when it comes out.
  • Even Nokia had few devices a year appoach, They released 920,820 and 620 first, later 520 and 720.
     
  • That's too many devices.  It's better to do more focused devices.  2-3 devices per year is better and makes it easier for consumers and businesses to choose.
  • Imma ride with MS until they say their no longer making phones. My wife is ready to jump even though she loves her love tiles, she's too impatient to wait and I understand. For me it's not so easy, windows desktop, windows surface original son buy surface 3 and a Lumia 928 with a cracked screen, I'm not going anywhere
  • Same here!
  • I'd update my resume if I was at Microsoft. And, I'm a HUGE fan , but . . .2 years?
  • Or maybe it will light a fire under their asses to release some killer phones.
  • Microsoft is a software company first and a hardware company second. Windows Phone was around before Microsoft started making phones. I want a phone, built by Microsoft, on AT&T only for the support I expect to get. If Microsoft stops making phones, the mobile operating system will live on. After all, that's their first priority. Someone else will fill the void if Microsoft bails on phone hardware. The operating system will be around for quite a while in my opinion.
  • So why buy Nokia just to kill it. Nokia could of filled the 'void' as you said. Nokia will be back but not on this OS. .Microsoft has shit on all us idiots that have supported them and left a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Hans moleman Satya has destroyed this company..... If W10 fails then what is microsoft? Office and xbox.... Software company first..... Please
  • Wasn't Nokia going to go to Android anyway ? And, Windows is still the major operating system in use today.
  • Is it? Android is on three times as many devices sold including laptops, tablets and phones. Even Apple matches Windows when all these devices are considered. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Devices and services is what they claim. Devices is listed first. This has always confused me as most of their devices at the time were mice and keyboards.
  • This whole thing is perceived negatively, which I'm sure is not the optimal perception for Microsoft to gain traction where it is hurting -- apps. Perception is everything. Microsoft needs to make a commitment
  • Exactly. Zero confidence equals Zero sales
  • Not only developers, but also users and OEMs will need more confidence to continue investing in this platform.
  • To allow this information to go public about the two year period without any further comment is terrible! If I were a developer I would question whether or not it's really worth it in the end. Meanwhile, I will look forward to a 1520 follow-up if/when the time comes.
  • Burning Platform all over again. While platform is much better than last time around.
  • I will admit, this hurts my confidence in the platform. But two things that still leave a glimmer of hope are the fact that it's "at least" two years -- meaning it can continue on if they have a positive reaction -- and that this is strictly for Microsoft-built Windows Mobile devices, so other OEMs could theoretically keep making WinPhones even if the Lumia line crashes. Still, it does worry me, so I won't be picking up a Win10 phone on launch day, but... I'm still keeping my eyes on the platform and will come running if it works out.
  • They started it with "expect to". That means they may kill it sooner if it continues to flop. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Can't wait to see what happens. Can't wait for the flagships and can't wait to also see what other companies are gonna do moving forward. M9 with win 10? Samsung with WP? Who knows... We'll see.. So the people sitting here giving up hope.. You sound like a bunch of broken records and it's because of people like you that devs don't like to develop for WP.. Always whining about something... Devs don't really appreciate that and figure that us WP users are all like that.
  • Couldn't agree more with you. Deep respect to the developers willing to put time into creating amazing apps and managing to dodge the shitstorm of negativity. Also too many LumiHeads that don't want any other oem to succeed with WP/W10M like HTC, and especially Samsung. I mean I would love to see Sony join in, along with LG and many others! And I really don't mind having a Samsung Windows smartphone. would love to see a Note phablet or S6 variation. Or in some crazy alternative dimension where we can just flash WM ROM's to our Android phones. Use Samsung Kies et al to choose which OS you would like to use and install it. Or on XDA Developers through CWM. It's all but wishful thinking but how hard could it be since they managed to put it on a xiaomi phone (and the HTC HD2 from 6.5 - 7 - 7.5/7.8 - 8.1).  
  • Ditto, well said. Don't forget though these oems will have to spend money on marketing though or they will still sit on the shelves. One good note I was at att in panama city and the 635, 640xl, and 830 are sitting in the center spotlight along side the big boys. Felt good to see that. I also asked the rep about new flagships and was told they coming with windows 10. The rep showed no negativity to windows phone and even played with build 149 on my icon for a bit.
  • For 2 more years??
    Is that for lumia phones or for the OS as well??
  • So long as flagships come to Canada
  • Actually, since they are getting out unsuccessful 'carrier relationships' (i.e. Rogers)... they can sell those 'carrier exclusive' flagships devices UNLOCKED at their Microsoft Stores now :)  This is actually great news.
  • This would be great! I've always been jealous of US carrier exclusives like the N928 and One M8. I did manage to get them to work in my country but user experience varied without proper 4g or certain 3g bands missing.
  • The should keep Lumia for mid and low end devices. High-end devices should have the surface branding.
  • That is certainly better than the doom and gloom I have been reading. I've always figured they would stick it out for a while after Win 10 at least. There is the iconic picture of Win 10 running on IoT, phone, tablet, 2 in 1, laptops, desktops, Surface Hub, XBox, HoloLens. That picture looks a bit strange with an iPhone, Nexus 7 and iPad, where a WP, and Windows Tablets should be. The vision is continous, not piecemeal.  If the continuum capabilities demoed between WP and Win 10 come to pass, there will certainly be some compelling unique features to entice people. For some of the less goliath OEMs (not Samsung) it has been shown that essentially the same device can be marketed with either WP or Android, with little extra effort, and if MS doesn't blow it, no extra cost. MS does still need to show what is possible, and no-one will do that as well as they, as they did with Surface.  I look forward to walking into a MS store and buying a flagship MS WP, and them not even asking me what carrier. That would be my hope.
  • it means it will be the end of windows phone from phone world? I
  • whats the point of retreat now? after all the money that went down on wp and how mission critical it is for Microsoft to have a mobile platform, at the very last stance I guess they will be making wp's rom images available to buy or license or whatever so you can install it on your phone, since its almost the same code as it is for pc it wont be that hard to continue that way
  • Its not retreat! It means they only have to help the market for 2 more eyars, then the third party hardware makers can take over.
  • Exactly. If MS decides to let OEMs build the phones from now on, there will be a queue with manufacturers lining up. Let's not forget that those 4% globally that it has still mean many milions of phones sold.
  • Why would manufacturers use Windows Phone and have access to millions when they can Android and have access to hundreds of millions. Not only that, they can easily add their own UI and features to differentiate their device and make it their own all while having access to an extensive app catalog. It isn't Microsoft scaring them away, sales scared then away and Microsoft was forced to fill in. Even Nokia was switches to Android. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • They are not retreating.  They are cleaning up Nokia's mess and focusing on 2-3 high quality devices.  Just like how iPhone only has 1 hardware upgrade per year.  So we'll go from a bunch of similiar Lumias to 2-3 very different yet very focused Lumias. :)  Just like Surface and iPhone.
  • The point is to stop losing money. It makes perfect sense to me to see whether or not Project Astoria and Islandwood can help bridge (no pun intended) the app gap. If they can, then it's just up to MS to differentiate.
  • Business focus is key, and a mistake not to cater for this market properly earlier on. A phone that is awesome as a business tool, in the context of iOS and Android having their limitations in this space, and a good personal phone is a very attractive proposition. Also because the lines between biz and personal ate blurred these days, which MS know very well.
  • Let's all show our support with the new flagship release and show our knuckle headed buddies why Lumia and Windows Mobile is a better choice. And while the app recompiler thing had been quiet, I believe that developers are already preparing their apps for the Windows 10 Mobile release. This is going to be huge and Microsoft will garner the fanfare they deserve.
  • Yeeei, Microsoft! :) Somewhat reminds me of Obama's 'Yes we can" and the foolish crowd chanting to him :)) (for some unknown reason he reminded me Hitler with his shameless begging for cheering and applause) Yes we can close businesses and ship jobs out!! Yes we can make you pay more for worse medical assistance! Yes we can strip you of your constitutional rights! Oh, yes they can! :)
  • 2 more years! 2 more years!
  • You must be really upset that the economy has rebounded and unemployment is low. Obama has done a great job and his success will almost guarantee another Democrat will be elected. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I will never loose confidence in Microsoft decision!
    Indeed by 2018 they will surpass iOS for sure!
    Let's continue supporting Microsoft!
  • Hahaha haha my god I think pissed a little. What world are you from?
  • I've lost so much confidence that I'm going to buy two of the 940XL.
  • I wish it could be a better name cuz honestly 940 seems to be a small change to the 930 which doesn't put must trust that the phone will be that much greater. Maybe in the 1000s or an actually name
  • Market share does not equal profit. Just look at HTC. This is absolutely a positive thing for Windows 10 Mobile to have clear choices in the three focus segments
  • I just hope struggling OEM's like HTC would consider W10M to be a good alternative to Android. I mean, they were the main OEM supplying WP7 devices back in the days. Would hate to see HTC/Sony dissapear because of Android's fierce competition.
  • They would still be competing with Android no matter what platform they use. HTC tried Windows Phone and you don't see them making a new one. Going with Windows Phone would be like fighting Mike Tyson with one arm ties behind your back. Just ask Nokia. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • HTC has always gone up and down, but they are still around. They seem to be going up again: http://www.phonearena.com/news/HTC-reports-first-quarter-2015-earnings-r...
  • Crazy to think the Lumia 1040 might be my last mobile phone of choice.
  • It has been clarified many times that there is no 1020 replacement in the product pipeline, 940 and 940XL would be two good flagship choices, which mobile phone will you shift to then as nobody else will be making a 1030/40 etc..
  • I agree. Now running 2 years old 1520 I see no Flagship when looking at these supposed 940/XL specs. I want real Flagship that has best of everything not compromised design by committee 'flagship'.
  • Many thought Xbox would die after the 360 RROD fiasco. Ten years later and still in business with the Xbox One. Hope MS does the same with WP devices.
  • BLU will become the top Windows phone manufactures
  • I'm going down with the ship, whether that happens or not. I like wp BC it is the only interface for phones that I like and it's good for one handed use. Hopefully it doesn't turn out like the Dreamcast.
  • Lean and mean... I like !!
  • On a side note, anyone see evleaks latest tweet? Front facing flash on an upcoming Windows Phone, perhaps Lumia??
  • I haven't heard anything about it, at least not for Cityman/Talkman.
  • Maybe someone just confused it with the sensor/cam needed for the iris scan. :P But let's hope there is another top end model (be it 1020 follow up or not) somewhere in the pipeline.
  • The way I see it is that Microsoft is looking to break off the carrier relationships and start selling windows phone unlocked. As they start looking opening more Microsoft stores around the world,they will be offering more complete products. They mentioned that they will continue with the strategy for 2 years. I think they will revisit the plan in the next 2 years about the phone. The phones will be the core of the experience and people think that WP is going to be dead. They should think again. They have been in the mobile business for a long time . They have not made long term investments over the years but all this is made possible when the unification of all OS is coming together They may even look to create windows "android" phone with striping out all google services. This will not only give the core apps that they need but app app store that windows will create along amazon and google.
  • It probably means they will outsource building their phones to FoxConn or other phone OEMs.
  • Would Nokia Android phones and Lumia W10m phones get along in Foxconn factory? If they start fighting Nokia will win :)
  • Now I have doubt on Nadella as a promising CEO for Microsoft for the long run in the future
  • I can't imagine Microsoft will allow windows phone to disappear after all the investment in the mobile sector. I mean, they are spending how much money working on Windows 10 mobile? Why just throw it away? Are they losing money over this?
  • who said disappear? HTC, Samsung, etc will take over
  • People freaking out over this is ridiculous... My current phone is a Nokia 1520.... Yep.. it's NOT a Microsoft phone... I think Microsoft only bought the phone division from Nokia to keep the ball rolling until their next big phone OS (Win10) then they would cut back on making their own phones... Makes perfect sense to me. Hopefully HTC, Samsung and others will start making flagship phones to fill in the gaps.
  • I hope so. Would like to see 'struggling' OEM's give W10M a shot. I mean, even Acer and LG returned. It's not much, but to me it's a small glimmer of hope.
  • And before this two years? The system will die? We are given to OEM's?
  • Well now that Elop is out of the picture, some real progress can be made. Microsoft needs to slim down the Lumia line to 3 phones. Entry level, Mid grade, and Flagship. Dump all the rest of that nonsense that Elop created (nonsense meaning the dozen and a half other Lumia phones). There's no reason to have that many models. MS is shaping up well. Got rid of Balmer, got rid of Elop. Now they need to drop 90% of the Lumia line to get it down to 3 phones, and HOPEFULLY drop that STUPID numbering scheme that Nokia/Elop was using that made absolutely no sense,... and go with something that follows a pattern (i.e iPhone 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) (Galaxy S2, S3, S4, S5, S6)
  • Misleading headlines such as this by a reputed business news provider surely makes people wonder whether they need to stick with WP....  why is there so much hatred towards WP??? even i was taken abak when i first saw this! I'm pretty sure this would put a second thought in the minds of developers too!! :( .... 
  • So, what does this mean for the Chinese market, where their share in mobile stands at half of one percent?  That's the definition of not doing well, where they at least had a 3% presence a few years ago.   And then it cratered after the arrival of the iPhone 6, that sold like hotcakes there. In addition, it's obvious, reading between the lines, that much depends on how the hardware launch for the devices they have coming this Fall go; if they barely make a ripple in the market like the Lumia 930, it could be curtains for the whole division, IMO, of course.
     
  • After seeing people's reactions over the course of the day I'd say this may go down as one of the poorest actions in tech history. The cutbacks have been presented by most news organizations as the failure of Windows Phone. And for those of us who have been supporters of Windows Phone - well, our guesses of what the future holds have been all over the place. Part of Nadella's job today should have been to put his face forward and present a clear message of the future. Instead we have journalists and customers guessing at what a company memo means. Confidence among the general public that Windows Phone will be around in the long term has been shaken enough that they might just as well have killed the whole thing today. Someone might as well go out and dig a grave. Today the incentive for a developer to create a universal app may have been cut in half. How many phone manufactures today cancelled any thoughts of releasing future Windows Phones? Who wants to buy a phone if the platform doesn't have a solid future - I don't. What is the logic in spending money on holographic technology that almost no one currently uses while cutting back investment on what is probably the most popular computing platform around? Say what you want about Steve Balmer, but at least he had energy and vision. I don't see a lot of that at the top at Microsoft today.
  • Amen. 100% agree with you.
  • I had the same feeling when reading this memo as when I read the burning platform memo from Elop.
  • It's fine tuning. Remember the Surface lost almost a $billion and was dead too. Now it actually makes a profit. With W10 potentially gaining a billion users, more than Apple and Android together, the market for apps has tremendous potential.
  • It's not the death of Windows Phone, it's Nadella being smart. Since the beginning Nokia (and now Microsoft) has dominated Windows Phone's market share and has probably intimidated many OEM's. Why should Samsung or HTC try to compete with Microsoft on their own ground? Nadella has always looked at Microsoft like a software company, and this is him taking his company in that direction. Microsoft will predominantly focus on providing the best software possibly, and supporting its software with first-party devices such as the Surface, Xbox and Lumia lines. Microsoft isn't eliminating, they're slimming down. It's much like going through your computer and deleting the old, irrelevant files.
  • It's the right thing to do. What MS basically did was, bluntly put - cannibalize OEM's. Not because they wanted it, but because they wanted to trigger them to come up with great devices. But it backfired. Same tactic used my MS after launching the Surface line. at first, OEM's were shocked and angry. Later, they started to release great hardware.  
  • I think atleast now they have to concentrate on regions where wp is doing well instead of US. All thee features available when we put region as US should be available for others also
  • I just hope they do not stop to make low end's and mid range's, even after these two years. These are the devices that sell on the line, and the only options for those who are not rich and lives in countries that are crowded taxes. I do not want to have a Wp with the quality of an Android manufacturer, even if Samsung, LG, HTC and company fills the gap.
  • Well if after 2 years W10M fails they should just make surface phone with........ Android & skin it with W10 have it pre loaded with all MS apps and MS AOSP app store.
  • So I guess I will be loving it for 2 more years? The writing maybe on the wall but i will see it when i get close to it. I love the OS too much to give up on it just yet. I will probably be one of those few holdouts.
  • I'll be sticking with it too no matter what. Tried iphone and android before but I never took a liking to them.
  • nice. streamlined product portfolio, bigger pipe channel distribution, focused price points, and lowering production bottlenecks (because of smal number of device versions to manufacture). this is a good plan.
  • I believe!
  • In the words of immortal John "Bluto" Blutarsky-"was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!"
  • This sucks for the employees affected but it seems good for the business.
  • WOW what a terrible message! Who the fuck will make apps when they know Windows mobile will be dead in two years? Great message Microsoft. You are fucking dumb!!!!! And the timing. All these layoffs right before the release of Windows 10 and flagships. Those guys ay Microsoft have their brains in their ass! Do they wanna die badly??? Windows is doomed with every single tech site out there claiming windows mobile is dead. Long term this will mean windows as a whole will die. Mobile is essential. Which OEM will makes windows mobiles???? So far I can name almost NONE. Who made any device with the Microsoft health kit? NOBODY. Microsoft is acting in ways that are beyond stupidity. Giving such bad messages and still expecting Windows mobile 10 to to hit off? Are they smoking mushrooms? Who will make apps when the feature is claimed unsure after 2 years???? I repeat: NOBODY. Nadella I the biggest fail ever with no patience.
  • Of course, like the Surface was dead but is now a profit maker. WP will follow the Surface success and with Microsoft predicting 1 billion users for W10, more than Apple and Android together, Windows will remain a major success in both software and hardware.
  • Fantastic that they are readjusting focus to building only the best phones for Windows
  • To me this was inevitable news. The WP business saw a decline, then an increase (though slight), decline again and so on. There hasn't been consistency and that's their biggest fault. I currently only have WP devices, having come from Androids and iPhones. I personally have no issues with the OS and understand that where I am means, certain first-party apps or just some in general, may never hit my device. Its a tradeoff. Plus, I've yet to not be able to do whatever I did on my other phones on a WP. The point is, MS is smart to do this. Its difficult, but ultimately makes sense. When Nadella came in board and stopped the release of a mini-Surface and instead focused on the SP3. It paid off, very well. Yeah, a mini Surface sounds very cool and the rumored device some have seen, was pretty good. But, pretty good isn't good enough. We need home runs. The SP3 was a home run. Windows 10, is gearing up to be a home run. Their phones need the same focus, even if its to a limited market. The SP3 isn't selling like iPads, but its so well received that they are making profits and climbing in market share. If the experience is great, people will come. I believe MS has realized that with the turn around if their Surface division. They also have seen that with their focus on divisions like Xbox. Even if they lose, numbers wise to Sony, their outselling the Xbox 360, by a large margin. That's proper execution. They need a WP device that pulls out all the stops. It NEEDS to be top spec on EVERY SINGLE CATEGORY. The midrange devices like the 640 or maybe a future 7xx, those specs can be inline with that category. However, the upcoming 940's need to be home runs. Out the park. Design wise and performance wise. No point in building your own phones, if your getting trumped next week by the next Android or iPhone. They also need to build a 1xxx series phone. Whether that's a 1030/1530, those need to happen and should push the envelope very far. In the end, I'm very optimistic, more so than I was before, because if their approach is how they did the Surface lineup, we are in for something very good.
  • Satya Nadella is a person who's going to destroy Microsoft
  • It looks a lot like S.N. is setting up the Windows Mobile platform to die a slow death to mitigate the cost of a full blown collapse.
    ...
    I do not believe the current leadership of Microsoft is committed to Windows Mobile. And as such, should just say so. At least so loyal Windows fans won't waste money and hope in a platform Microsoft's own higher ups don't believe in.
    ...
    S.N. Will now be known as the Windows Mobile killer. Shameful. No confidence in S.N..
  • I have never owned an android or apple product, I have never cried because I cant get the " find your cat in a tree app" so i may have to look into the Linux phone if wp ends production... but I've seen the bigger picture for wp this week as I was using the windows 10 pc preview , I noticed the start menu is set up almost exactly like the windows phone start screen, so i think when all those windows 7,8 and 8.1 users upgrade to windows 10 and get used to that start screen. The very familiar windows phone screen might make a lot of sense to those heavy pc users.
  • Microsoft will not leave the mobile business. It is imperative that change had to be made but don't say that they will kill a revolutionary product and services. As you can recall surface at first was a flop and a 900million write off, but after it flourished and became one of the best devices on the market today beating even the apples and oranges and Samsungs all over the world. So please don't be negative just have faith.
  • Exactly :)
  • MS, just make a phone with an Atom processor and let it run x86 apps. That'll fix lots of things. :-)
  • I think a lot of people are forgetting or ignoring Continuum. That I think is something that can really make a Windows "Phone" an innovative device and even represents a new catergory in many ways. Something that is a fully functional PC when docked but is a LTE enabled everyday pocketable smartphone when not is kind of cool and deceptively revolutionary. I've bought and "used" a number of tablets over the years and when push comes to shove my laptop and my phone are my must have devices. The tablet is nice is certain instances but if my needed forms and functions are met completly by a single device that is significantly awesome. 
  • Aside from us WP fans everybody else interprets the action of our Indian leader as ms pulling the plug on WP. As a non WP user and as a developer I would not do anything with or for WP for a while. Lets see where the OS is going first. I find this a very strange decision three months before the release of windows mobile ten. People who were getting onboard must be having second thoughts now. Hell, I'm having second thoughts now. It's still not a done deal that I will replace my 1520 with a windows mobile phone. And the same thing goes for all my family members and for my company. Ms continues to give off mixed signals and scaring customers and potential new customers away. Companies will only switch to ms mobile if they have the confidence it is going ti be around for a while. They way ms is acting lately does not give me that confidence.
  • Microsoft predicts 1 billion users for Windows 10 which is more than Apple and Android put together. So whilst devs like you sit there missing a mass market, the wise devs will already be honing there apps for W10. Enjoy your daydreaming :/
  • Does it also means some countries wont get lumia anymore??the focus will be more on big markets?
  • Frankly, all of this makes sense.  The nay sayers can nay all they want.  Microsoft has struggled because they brought something to market that didn't represent what their final end game was.  Still, they needed to bring something to market just to get in the game.  All of the stuff they've learned with WP7.0 and above is invaluable. Look at the Surface RT and the Surface 3/ Pro now.  Windows 10 was always end-game, its just tough that early adopters will feel left behind or maybe even deceived/ let-down jumping from 7 to 8 to 8.1 and now 10.  I'm an enthusiast and so I can roll with the punches, but that is the market that will be most vocal.  I'm glad to hear low end is doing well enough to keep focused on it.  Like Microsoft Apps on competing platforms, it can only mean an improved prospect for their phone business and high-end phone business.  Interesting times ahead. I certainly don't envy Nadella, but I do think he is making the right choices.  It's scary laying people off as people can think all sorts of things.  My company had to lay people off. The CEO that was fired just implemented a bunch of wrong stuff (including getting rid of all budgets for the entire company).  Investors finally said that we had to course correct or they would make decisions for us.  It was either restructure, operate leaner, cut out profit-less products (and customers) and sacrifice a few jobs to save the company, or let the whole ship burn.  We are recovering and some argue bouncing back "stronger" as we learned to cut the fat.   Microsoft isn't going anywhere,  they're just course correcting after making some bad judgement calls (and timing) and forgetting their primary reason for existence: software.
  • Then after that ?
  • WP will follow the Surface line which is now in profit. The phones will continue to market and make a profit so both the Surface and Phone lines will be here for many years. Don't just believe a news story that has no proof. How many rubbish anti Microsoft articles are churned out each day!
  • instead of shipping bulk number of volumes which dont sell microsoft much ship according to market,model,less volume.if demand is high reship less volume within 10days ....they must invest in recycling so that unsold volumes can be recycled completly.....they must stop desiging for low end instead take old devices like 720/700 with slight modification re-release them...
  • Windows phone is getting popular in the Uk . I know at least 10 people who own one. And they are are all over the place. Compared to using an iPhone(that my daughter has which I find shite to navigate through apps etc) the Windows phone is my favorite choice, it's a great os to use and improving all the time. Sure it's hard to break down the Iphone Android bullshit advise that phone companies give to customers. As for the app gap , again most if not all of the top apps are on Windows Phone, and exclusive apps that wipe the floor with the other platforms. Using Windows Phone Ten gives me a lot of confidence that market share will increase especially HERE in the UK and Europe, where the gains in market share are on the up. For me I will never be an IPhone, Android sheep and stick to the Best mobile Platform on the market!!!
  • Apple PC and Laptops probably make up less than 4% of the total market and yet nobody is asking Apple to shut down production of their computers which have been around for decades. Microsoft has 3%+ of the phone market and is being bombarded with negative articles about why their platform should die. People are fickle, soon something new will come along a new must have beautiful device and people will flock to it. Microsoft just has to commit itself to making such a device.
  • WP competes across a range of price points, whereas Macs compete in the high cost -niche.
  • I wanna look to the future with confidence. But i must say that Nutella AND now its employees is not solving anything in that department. Fix your ****** communication and Nutella grow a pair.
  • Who will buy Lumia if its market is shutting after two years
  • This is a news story without any actual proof, just like your comment.
  • Well that explains why most of R&D was let go. It's a caretaker operation from now on. And normally if you give that kind of message to workers, that there is no future, it demoralize even those 'lucky ones' who did not get fired yet and they will be busy searching for new jobs.
  • I'm even more skeptical now.... We love surface pro line and is just one device year after year...i don't have problems if the same will happen with Lumia brand, but surface is one in a multitude of computer, windows phone device are just made of Lumia devices! I don't see any oem focusing in w10 mobile
  • i hope something is being done on contacts as well.
  • I must comment, if this article is true, why should I invest my money in microsoft and purchase another windows phone? They have two options be more google and software only or be more apple be software and show what your doing by making the devices. I think they need to be more apple as software is nothing without devices and noone is going to do that for them. This whole pull out of mobile in the next two years worries me greatly as as its comes from bloomberg its a reputable source. Which means he is pushing hololens for then. Question is, is the world ready for it? In 2015, no not yet. Phones will be here for a while yet.
  • Nokia is coming back so these people will mostly get their jobs back. Secondly MS I believe is aware that former Nokia users will choose Nokia. That's my guess.
  • Nokia will hire a few hundred at most, likely a few dozen.
  • What has Nokia got to do with this? And if Nokia does go back into the mobile market place, next year, it'll probably be with android. They made a mistake with WP and the company failed. MSFT spent billions to but the Nokia phone division and that also failed and they just admitted it with a massive write down.
  • So basically, Dead man walking....
  • They'll exit unsuccessful career relationships except in the US. The unsuccessful ones ARE the ones in the US.
  • Windows was all about "running everywhere". Make it so! Custom ROMs for the world, cloud based and supported by a driver alliance. We are talking about massive scale. And to be honest, killing W10 mobile will kill IoT too, something MSFT is late to the party to and can't afford to loose.
  • If I am a developer right now, I am likely feeling very inspired to make apps....
  • Yes, because your apps span phone, pc, tablet and xbox. With Microsoft predicting 1 billion users, that's more than Apple and Google put together. Who would miss such an opportunity?
  • I just love windows platform.
    Whether its shares are not good worldwide, but that doesn't matter that much for me.
    Its look. The UI is so incredible that I just love it!.
    Loving it since the start..on my L720.
  • People can be pretty slow on the uptake. The mere fact that they would even give a minimum timeframe for releasing phones means they're planning on eventually halting production. When you combine this with the porting tools from iOS and Android, the net effect for WP will be basically the same as Elops burning platform memo was for Nokia.
  • I am sticking with WP. There's just no alternative. I have an iPad and hate the useless thing (media player, that's all it is). Android is one big cluttered mess. Only Windows has a promise of a bright future.
  • I feel the same. I'm looking forward to a shiny new 940 with W10 to go with my Surface Pro 3. An awesome combination that leaves messy Android and boring Apple standing.
  • Lol Windows Phone is like the Titanic. SOS the ship is sinking.
  • Lost confidence? what is this person talking about, i for one cannot wait for the new flagships.
  • I'm jumping ship at the end of my contract, been with them since day one and nothing really has improved no point staying with a sinking ship imo
  • Gonna be a hard choice this winter. IPhone 6s plus vs wp10 flagship. For me, I'm concerned about Nadella's commitment to mobile and all the nokia technology that made Lumia's great. If I'm not feeling assured by the time the flagships come out, iPhone for me.
  • Thanks nadella this are your results
    Users going away due to all your mistakes
    Go home satya
    Before it's too late
    Go home please
  • He is Indian. They be a spineless lot. No guts just pacifist nonsense.
  • I hope this doesn't mean they will be cutting ties with Dutch carriers. In comparisment to other European countries WP has a lot less marketshare here (around 5% I think, maybe a little more, but no where near the 10%). As a Dutch WP fan I really, really want the next hero flagship phone :D keeping my fingers crossed!
  • I'm glad they're scaling back Lumia. There's no reason for Microsoft to shove out 7 devices a year under that brand.
  • ok, so ditch the US market since it's pointless. Go global with every service!
  • Will be sticking with windows for sure, fine tuning the business is not giving up. Windows 10 is looking better by the day. Lets stay positive
  • Should one risk purchasing a wp10 flagship this fall/winter? Oops, I mean 3-4 months later when they show up in stores after initial reveal and without decent advertising?
  • As Said before about me ms Like ibm in the past face problems of corruption of managers
    That get payed by counterparts to do big damages
    I guess that some managers kicked out recently were better doing interests of ms competitors
    About nadella i believe he made damages too porting too much ms stuff to other platforms
    I could agree for office mobile due to o365 Services
    But i will never understand other apps e.g. Like hyperlapse or games Like halo ported to ios or android
    It seems nadella suffer of a bad Dual personality psichiatric problem
    Ms already suffer problems of bad nadella management
  • I just want a new flagship before the holidays. My Lumia 521's 512mb of system memory is really starting to limit my phone's performance.
  • In India it's doing well....lumia users increasing day by day.....we need Lumia tablet & more accessories.....come on microsoft....work hard.
  • Guys wp is not dead yet because I still use it, just don't worry about it. You loved it because it has what you need plus the performance and live tiles not because of the worldwide market share.
  • Bad and typical management...I said it before and I say it now!!!New manager/ceo means lay offs, and this time its bad for me as I see myself having to switch to crap android or even worse ios.... (And I hate them) just because their plans with windows mobile is awful!!!
  • WP will copy what they have done with the Surface line, which is now in profit. Personally, I'm looking forward to the 940 and model after that. I'm sure WP, like the Surface, is here to stay.
  • Classic Microsoft! When they touch gold, it turns into shit. I gotta admit though I'm happy with the fact that they're gonna produce only 3 types of phone from now on, I think they should also do something about they're namings, It's really confusing. I would go with something as simple as the following; Low end: Lumia L1, Enterpreise: Lumia E1 & E1+ (phablet) High end: Lumia H1 & H1+ (phablet)
  • Im afraid, that Windows Phone is dead in the water ...
    I loved to get a new flagship device later this year supporting Continuum, but now im not sure if I will remain with WP. They are planing for the next two years? This is great, but whats after this two years? I think Nokia will get back into business and start manufactoring cheap android devices. The mission: quantity over quality ... I really like the Windows Phone Ecosystem, even as Linux User for years. But I think Windows Phone is dead. I made the mistake in buying a Lumia 2520 (which is an awesome device, but lacks of accesoires and support), but I will not make the same mistake again! I really hope Microsoft changes their mind and it will not cut down all the money and inventions for Windows Phone!
  • Wait!!! What deos it mean? No flagship Lumia Phones this year? Sorry, I can't read all of the article, its too long I'm in a prepaid internet.
  • Two years? If even MS is not confident enough beyond that, why would any OEM or carrier jump on? Or even a developer? Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • This seems disappointing and confusing at the same time. It seems so unclear as to whether windows mobile has a future or not - regarding both articles. I believe windows will still have a future in mobile, seems like its an integral part of this industry. That's the positive I'm taking with me - I love the windows phone platform - I expect a restructuring that will strongly position windows mobile in the mobile market going forward
  • So guys 2 more years and then off? Shame MS. And today I would buy Lumia 640 XL. BUT now i don't know.
  • ..and it is the beginning of the end.
  • Hopefully they are still available in Australia. I love my windows phones!
  • if they themselves will not show confidence in their ecosystem, why and how other manufacturer and developer will hope in and moreover this will eventually will hurt the current app support. As a developer no one would invest his time in a ecosystem which is about to die.
  • Windows Phone is dead. They just announced the funeral. the high hopes of Win8 have never been fulfilled as the OS and Apps were always "going to be" better or almost as good as Apple or Android. I'm a music fan and I hate my 920 for music. I just gave up trying to make it work. When the Surface was just as poor at videos and music I sold it and got an iPad Air. The same thing is about to happen. I will get an iPhone 6s this fall, Win 10 notwithstanding. I'm a Windows junkie but why should I put up with 3rd rate devices when Apple does an excellent job.             
  • I don't see this as all that negative. The surface strategy seems to work. I own a SP3 and I have to say that I did not even look at HP devices for years. The Spectre 360 which HP built in collaboration with Microsoft is the first of their devices I seriously consider buying. If MSFT can pull off a similar approach with OEMs on phones, the future is bright. I also think that continuum is critical for the next 1-2 years. Since Microsoft will focus on business and high end devices, continuum could be the factor moving the needle heavily towards the Windows 10 ecosystem. Let's face it, we don't use our phones as PC anymore, we use small PCs to make some phone calls. I think 2 years is a good timeframe to push and see how things shake out. I would not be surprised if phablets and continuum replace tablets, especially in the corporate world. For that, it will take phones that can handle the workload and as far as I can tell, they are coming. And if I am right, OEMs will fall in place and produce hardware in large numbers, so Microsoft really shouldn't have to in a few years. It all depends on Windows 10 now, so I can see why hardware is (right now) not seen as more than a vehicle to show what's possible. Forget about windows mobile, think Windows.
  • It is fine that they focus on three types of customers but one seems forgotten, the ones buying not a business phone, nor a value phone but a middle type of phones. There should be a fourth type of customers they focus on.   Nadella does not have the long-term vision that Microsoft needs to succeed. He is just like a too eager CEO wanting to progress at a too rapid rate on the Windows mobile phone area when the situation needs to be assessed long-term only. The Windows Phone will succeed LONG-TERM but it will take maybe more than five years to see real progress and at least ten years to really see significant progress. It is due to the current position that Apple iOS phones and Google Android phones have.   The arrival of Windows 10 on phones will be the real start to see the Windows mobile OS really truly competitive. Before that, it has been really for MIcrosoft just catching up on the OS for many features, quite a few of them basics such as the notification center for instance.   Focus is good but too many layoffs might not be the true solution. They should have enough good hardware and software people at Microsoft focused only on Windows mobile to make sure that they produce competitive hardware and software.   Excel, Windows OS, Microsoft Office are just a few examples where long-term strategies were applied. And long-term in these cases meant several decades of work on reaching the top.
  • Even though I've already moved onto Android, and using Windows Phone as a backup phone. And I still feel bad for all the investments I made on apps. Was thinking of buying a couple more, but now that I read this, no more. I'm just going to let my phone have it's slow death.
  • Then why the F*&k did you buy Nokia!!!
  • Windows Phone is perpetually waiting for the next version of Windows to break out. However, it's over. MS lost the smart phone wars. They can have a big future with software and services. Don't know why anyone would buy a windows phone now.
  • 930, 1020 and 1520 were great and if only they could release something that good + some enhancements they'll gonna make it. And windows 10 is going to help that big time. Nowadays I simply can't imagine not having a Windows Phone as a complementary device to my PCs. If I was an Apple fan I'd have owned an iPhone probably. Now MSFT is going to do the same thing that Apple's been doing for the past few years.
  • I hope this isn't the end of WIndows Phone... If Microsoft ends development of their mobile OS, I'm not sure what to do after that point. I was briefly on Android for a few years before Windows Phone 7 came out so I suppose I could return to Android. Or perhaps there might be more interesting hardware in the iOS camp by then. Either way I hope Windows Phone lives on.
  • Microsoft has never been one to want to be making hardware directly. Aside from Lumia phones today, what other MS hardware does MS own the hardware manufacturing process for? Surface? Nope. Mice and Keyboards? Nope. (Foxconn, ALPS, and possibly others in those cases). There is a lot to be desired in how this was presented as it sounds like doomsday for Windows Phones, but I doubt that's the case. I suspect they are simply moving away from the hardware process and will go back to offering reference model phones to let their partners & OEMs to take point. So you may see Lumia phones as unlocked, off-contract, higher-priced phones for reference, but the partner models will become more abundant. I personally think MS would be better off continuing to make Lumia phones, and limit them to the High-Medium-Low mini-portfolio, then step in and push for more development and marketing from itself and partners. But I also get the step back to software-only which I suspect is all this is here.
  • As much of a Microsoft guy I am and having switched to Windows Phone almost two years ago the sad truth is no matter how great the OS is or if Microsoft makes the best phones their market share won't break 3% as long as carriers aren't really supporting it as they should. Especially with the carrier exclusive phones which kills the customer selection. Verizon is the worst at this, they have no Lumia phones and the Nokia Icon they only had for 7 months then pulled it off the shelves due to "poor sales". I'm switching to Android when my upgrade is available, considering MS has a lot of their apps including Cortana for Android I'm not loosing anything by switching over to a Samsung Galaxy S5
  • It's not the "Surface approach". It's sad, but it's the "iPhone approach", the "Galaxy S approach". I think Lumia brand is severily hurt now. Even the Windows Mobile/Phone brand is hurt. They should come up with something else... Xbox phone, Xbox phone mini, Surface Phone, Surface Phone Mini, whatever.
  • The Sky is falling!...The Sky is falling!.. :)
  • This just makes me sick.  I said from the beginning that Nokia should have kept the division and kept making the best Windows Phones.  I was afraid Microsoft would squander the talent and ruin the brand and that's exactly what they did.  Sadly, even if the talent Microsoft acquired in the deal all went BACK to Nokia, there's no way they'd be making Windows Phones.  If I had Nadella in front of me.....
  • Stay on Leave? What you guys think?  
  • Stay on Leave? What you guys think?
  • This was sorely needed.....the numerous phones with numbering schemes that would confuse even BMW is ridiculous, i would rather count on one to two flagship phones a year than 20 lowend and one flagship every 1 1/2 years. What MS has done has shifted from androids business model to Apples. IMO, all you need is one high end flagship in 2 different screen sizes, one mid range and one lowend available ON EVERY CARRIER! Carrier exclusives are a big part of the problem here.....
  • How many times have we heard "windows phone is dead"? It's quite preposterous to think Microsoft will kill mobile for good. Its clearly the single most important device people will own and MS knows this. Just too bad they didn't realize sooner that makes upteen similar devices and expecting saturation to succeed was a very bad idea. Most other companies figured this out already. You need a "520" for the masses, a "920" for the business class and a "1420" for those who want the best. Name them the same thing, but with tiers like surface (reg, pro, elite) and you'll see the success you want, and it wont kill you in hardware resources /r&d.
  • Microsoft tarnished Nokia and now will suffer their revenge in 2016
  • So far this looks encouraging. It seems that Microsoft has recognized most of the shortcomings with the platform; the bloated and confusing product line, the absence of flagship phones, and the atrocious support from carriers, particularly in the US. Hopefully they'll also address the weak marketing and lack of presence in retail. Once they've started addressing these issues they need to do something about the app store. There seems to be no screening whatsoever, what with all the garbage being dumped there on a daily basis. And there's a continued lack of quality apps and games. I'm guessing the two year plan is Microsoft's current commitment to see how things play out. If the platform starts doing well they'll stick with it. If things don't change, it will likely be the last we see of the platform.
  • Hard to believe it was only a fewyears ago when I picked up my first Windows Phone, a Samsung Focus, back in 2010.  I was sold on the platform from that point on... now in 2015 I've got my Lumia 930 which I've been thrilled with. I love the Windows Phone OS and even played around with the Windows 10 preview, and was really looking forward to what the future might hold (Hello Lumia 940). But given the news coming out of MS, it's pretty clear the platform is a "dead man walking."  No carrier in their right mind would get behind the platform if the manufacturer was only committing to building phones "for the next two years."  And for those suggesting Universal Apps might save the day; there's simply no reason a person would develop an app for a market moving away from sit at home PCs and toward mobility, and unless the tablet market is going to explode for MS through their partners, I simply do not see that happeneing.  So sadly, I think it's just time to move on. There's really no one person to blame.  Sure you can point the finger at Ballmer or Nadella, but the fact of the matter is that for the last few years MS has always been late to the dance.  They make great devices, but they don't come to market until the market has already made their choice.  The Zune, which was far and away a better MP3 player than the iPod, and was certainly a more forward thinking device (wi-fi sharing), but it simply came on the scene when Apple had already gobbled up a hige portion of the market share, and with piss poor marketing to boot. It's the same fate for Windows Phone.  Great devices... horrid marketing.   
  • I dunno folks. It's hard to filter out all the fanboyish comments here. I've owned many Win phones and reluctantly I'm calling it about over. Forget the analogies for iOS/Android and how they started. Their roots are too deep now and after using WP10 now (although nice), I can't see it being the mobile killer people make it out to be. The UI is still too inconsistent between apps and just looks cobbled together. Yeah, I know it's still a preview but I believe what I'm seeing is pretty much it. These days too many folks that can't outright afford decent phones here in the U.S. are being held hostage by the carriers so many of them them couldn't change to a WP anyway even if they wanted to.   MS just missed the mobile bus. 
  • They already wrote off the Nokia purchase, they won't have to write off anything else in the future. They have three options going forward. 1. Continue making phones if they're successful like the Surface tablets are (but you can't forget they had a 1billion write off there too) 2. Make phones until OEMs get enough of the market and make devices that are good enough and you can stop making your own 3. Give up on Windows Phone if in two years time it's still unwanted by the public   I think Microsoft is aiming for #2. That was also their plan with the Band and Surface tablets. They didn't want to be Apple but they needed to show their OEMs what was possible and make sure there are great devices out there. Google had to do the same thing with the Nexus devices. 
  • Android and iOS welcome Windows phone losers into the fold!   Welcome aboard!!!
  • What I think many are missing is that MSFT is not giving up on mobile.  They are trying to give up on mobile hardware.  That's different abd ideally thats a idea.  They are a software company.   They really want to follow the Google model rather than the Apple one. They've lost billions and billions on Surface.   Stick to what you do well.   But they need to keep the hardware going for now because no one else is willing to invest in making Windows Phones.  if they can get Win10 and universal apps going, others will join and they can quietly exit.  That's really the strategy.  They are not giving up on the Windows OS for phones  
  • No developers = dead OS I dont care how good the OS is. I love WP I hate the app gap so I've all but moved on to Android and windows services.  If MSFT can get 15% market share in the US I'll be back, but until then I wont be part of the grand "Zune 2.0" experment.
  • What does mobile first even mean for MS? If MS does not care about having a mobile platform and eco system, is app development for iOS/Android what they mean? At what point does Windows itself become irrelevant as the world goes more and more mobile and iOS/Android gets closer and closer to being good enough for the general office worker? Dock your phone to a screen and keyboard...
  • They will have to stay in a lot longer if they do not want to dwindle into insignificance on the mobile market. If this actually was a prelude to get out of the business Nadella is not as smart as I currently am giving him credit for. This better was a restructuring, getting rid of the feature phones and ending up with a set of reference phones that cover the market while giving other producers enough room to flourish with alternative designs. Microsoft needs to be in this for the long haul and they need to make this perfectly clear or they will sabotage the little progress they made.
  • Microsoft has spent a lot of time showing us Windows 10 Mobile... so I doubt they are "giving up" on mobile. But news of these layoffs sure don't inspire a lot of confidence in Windows phones being able to attract enough developers to support the platform.  I REALLY want to switch to a Windows phone now that I've bought a Surface 3, and am excited for Windows 10. But while I can do everything I need on my Surface... I can't talk myself into getting a Windows phone if the app support is not there. With a few notable exceptions, the Modern apps are definitely the weakest part of my Surface 3 user experience.
  • I think I am going to need Satya Nadella to get on a commercial and push up Windows Phone.  All this 'internal' communication he has going on is for the birds.
  • Bad for Canada:   "The company also will exit carrier relationships and countries where it hasn't been successful, the person said, although it will continue to sell handsets in the U.S. because of the market's size and significance."
  • DOA windows 10 mobile, we were willing to go back with windows 10.
    A good product and lesson's in how to totally mismanage it.
  • You have a Flagship phone coming out in 6 weeks and you tell the world your abandoning mobile, yet another questionable move :/
  • I am shocked at all the negativity on windows central.  Nadella actually said "we're getting organized and we're going to keep making phones", yet somehow people hear "we don't know what we're doing and we're going to quit phones"...  Sigh.
  • Haha, the tech world doesn't give a shit. Nobody's reeling but us
  • I hung I there since the Nokia n95, and now, right now I am feeling the least hopeful about staying out of the clutches of android. Two years is not at all consoling to me, unless Microsoft comes out ...very soon...with a long term plan for its mobile devices production we may as