Microsoft clarifies Lumia Denim update for some is just in-name-only

The Lumia Denim update is surely going down as one of the most confusing firmware updates from Nokia (now Microsoft). Whereas in the past, the new firmware like Lumia Amber or Lumia Black brought new features to all Lumias e.g. Call and SMS blocker, Lumia Denim's exact feature set is only for newer, PureView Lumias.

Much of this is already known, of course. For months, we have been saying that only the Lumia 830, Lumia 930 (Verizon Icon) and Lumia 1520 will see the new Lumia Camera 5.0 features brought by Denim. Now, however, Microsoft has confirmed as much on their support site.

In an FAQ message, Microsoft answers a presumably obvious question:

FAQ - I have updated Lumia Denim, but the firmware version number was not changed, why?

"Lumia Denim is the marketing name for latest Lumia software update, which is a combination of firmware, OS (operating system) and Lumia exclusive applications. Exact contents coming with Lumia Denim vary depending on the device model, and some devices are not requiring new firmware for the new features to be enabled, so firmware can in some cases remain unchanged."

This answer explains why many people are reporting their devices now say Lumia Denim even if they did not get an update. It appears that under Extras + Info, the change from Cyan to Denim can be triggered by hitting a particular OS version. For some people, this can change based on their Preview for Developer status (enrolled versus non-enrolled can change it).

The reason for that "trigger" is that some devices, like a Lumia 520 or Lumia 920, will not get new firmware. However, when they are at the right OS level – either through Preview or official Windows Phone 8.1.1 update – the phone will rightly "switch" to Lumia Denim.

For Lumia owners accustomed to new firmware releases, this news may come as a bit of a disappointment. However, up until now, not many people can articulate what it is about Denim they are expecting anyway.

Lumia Camera 5.0

In our recent interview with Microsoft's imaging head Juha Alakarhu, we discuss why devices like the Lumia 1020 cannot get the Lumia Denim camera enhancements (hint: old hardware, not possible).

At some point, Microsoft does need to push with newer technology to advance the platform, and Lumia Denim appears to be that shift. Still, current Lumia owners are not left in the dark as OS updates – both through Previews and official – are still forthcoming, and it is these updates that truly bring new OS features e.g. the data toggle.

Next week, all hopes are on Microsoft to unveil Windows 10 for mobile. That too is in the cards to come to older Lumia hardware, likely in Preview form starting this month. In other words, Lumia Denim may be a bust for some, but the real treats are waiting at the door.

Source: Microsoft (opens in new tab); Thanks, Lance_WPCentral, for the tip!

Daniel Rubino
Editor-in-chief

Daniel Rubino is the Editor-in-chief of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft since 2007 when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, laptops, next-gen computing, and for some reason, watches. Before all this tech stuff, he worked on a Ph.D. in linguistics, watched people sleep (for medical purposes!), and ran the projectors at movie theaters because it was fun.

562 Comments
  • Lumia 630?
  • You need more words to make this a legitimate quesiton.
  • Some people are really.......!
  • I don't even...
  • There are two kinds of people in the word.  There are those that need closure.
  • Well I wouldn't call it a blasphemy...MS is hitting the right notes by giving low end devices 1gb ram and such (Lumia 435)...an update with less features..or none in this case...can surely be ignored..considering wp 10 is around the corner..
  • If so why dha HELL is taking so long to come for just a total of 4 phones....
  • you should seriously write a book "How to be gangsta for dumbies" :P
  • Is its so hard to understand his question?! Really??
  • Does it mean that my L925 won't get Lumia camera 5 and rich capture ​hdr features?
  • Yeah!
  • Oh, another Rubino burn? Ouch.
  • Daniel Thurrotted him! Thurrott (v.t.) To make smart-assed reply to a less than intelligent comment on a website.
  • will lumia 920 get the update or not im confused , for thai ive to change my phone  .
  • Daniel, When will Denim available in india for L1520 ??  
  • PureView only.
  • but my Lumia 925 says PureView and i'm still waiting. Every night i check if there is an update, not because of the improvements to the camera, just because my cell phone freezes when he want it, i really can't trust in it, i have to wake me up with the alarm of an old ipod connected to speakers, just because i dont know how to fix that "thing". Hope this update fix that.
  • read this its the solution for the 925/1020 freeze issue     http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/winphone/forum/wp8-wpupdate/lumia-pho...
  • There's no solution here... Just says return your phone at your cost, flash, or wait for a SW update..... Following the steps of disabling some things mentioned by some didn't work for me either....
  • That's same with me... I also rely on my nokia E72 for morning alarm... B'coz it unpredictable about my Nokia Lumia 1020 freezing........ Please Microsoft please fix the issue with the new Update. I don't want new camera features M happy with my current camera features they are way advance to amaze anyone... Please MS fix it as soon as possible... PLZ.....
  • 925 has pureview
  • I read somewhere that the 925 won't be getting an update because it's a dual core phone. Sucks, but what can we do. Sadly I will be switching to Android untill T-mobile gets another wp flagship. My 925 is starting to lag alot and frankly I'm gettng tired of it.
  • Reset ur brain)
  • Hmmm ;) It is a shame this update effectively brings nothing to low and mid tier Lumia devices as they are the majority - msft continues to produce these lower devices and the cheaper ones are rather good, though the high end ones are where the new features are to be found. If most of the sales are for low end hardware is this the right way to go? I don't know, I'm just happy to have a 1520 alongside others.
  • All these phones are getting 8.1.1 aka new features. If not, people can reject those OS updates and spite themselves ;)
  • Not if you upgrade to Denim. There's an auto install function.
  • Err... It's not bring nothing. Denim, for those who didn't enlisted as developer preview users, still bring new features (hint: the new data toggle is the latest feature up until now) since they got the OS update within Denim update. We are the "greedy" ones who install all those update before the official update was released. :)
  • Lumia icon?
  • Waiting for win 10. Don't care. Lol
  • Yeah I don't care about denim since it doesn't bring anything new to my 1020.
  • Neither do I care about Windows 10 since what Microsoft is doing to the PC version is incredibly horrible and ruins the Metro UI in favor of the stupid desktop.  I have every expectation that they are about to ruin the phone, too.
  • "that stupid desktop" You mean the thing that the majority of people wanted back?
  • I understand that Windows 10 will keep the Metro/Modern look, but gives more choices to allow different preferences, i.e. the Start Menu can be disabled or enabled. More choices is a positive, right!
  • It's people like you that make me wish Microsoft never did any previews for their OS. You are clearly taking the Tech Preview way too seriously. MS is not killing Metro, they are simply making it more effective for Desktop users while maintaining its integrity on non desktop devices. The fact that you still don't get that is beyond ridiculous.
  • Did you see the preview of windows 10? It just gives the option to disable start page in favor of start menu. It is still available plus the metro apps will play nicer in win 10 considering enterprise desktop users.
  • people don't want change, even thought it's a needed one
  • Im sure u r not productive person u use pc/laptop  for other stuff ...im civil engeneer i cant garrantee windows 8 is not that  easy interface to work with even if  its possible, yet  old desktop is way way better plus complexe softwares are not easy to be compatible with metro ui   
  • You just said one thing wrong: "metro/modern UI is not that easy to work with..." Not Windows 8, cause it have the "old desktop is the way way better..." ;)
  • Windows 10 lets you choose desktop metro or full screen(win 8) metro...
  • The new start menu is just an option. So you can have it be just like Windows 8.1 if you prefer. You're not losing anything. The new way just gives more options. I'm looking forward to trying the new start menu on the desktop since it's as capable as the Windows 8.1 start menu. Don't judge it by the current dev preview which doesn't support hybrids yet.
  • I'd love Denim for my 1020 for the "Hey, Cortana" functionality, and Lumia Camera's latest version with faster loading and shot-to-shot times. Ditto for my 925 and 520 spare phones.
  • Voice activation is possible only in Qualcomm 8xx ARM CPU.
    => Lumia 930 & Icon & 1520 (currently)
  • Dream Boy
  • Me too, but it's weird that this is how they handle a phone update. Never like this on PC. Prob left overs from Nokia days... But still odd nonetheless.
  • Yep, I don't care for Denim update on my 1020 but all I ask for is next version of 1020(1030 or 1040 whatever) to be released with windows 10 before those holiday season. And Yes, I have tried 1520, and it doesn't compare to image quality of 1020. 
  • I was at least expecting faster camera opening. But disappointed #730.
  • At least. The Lumia camera is slow AF on the 730
  • Poor low end Lumias! :/
  • Why? Why do you need a new firmware?
  • This is what really bugs me. People complain about not getting new firmware. You then ask them what the new firmware was supposed to do...shrug. People just want stuff, even if they have no idea what it is they want.
  • Dan, how about the patch fix for 925 & 1020? Is it coming along with the official denim rollout?
  • I'm interested to know this as well
  • I WANT A GRILLED CHEESE.
  • LOL can I join u ! :P
  • GRILL ME A CHEESE
  • Meh. I'd rather have a grilled cheese SANDWICH! Yuk yuk
  • On your last interview with Juha, it's clear that coming up with an improved algorithm is not an easy task, and it's too much of a work to support it for every older devices because an extensive test is required for each and every devices. But 1020 owners like me just wanted a Lumia Camera that starts up as fast as the built-in camera app. It's rather disappointing that we don't get any speed enhancement because it is probably the slowest camera the world has ever seen. Probably.
  • slowest but best, can't have both, least not yet, next closest device to it is the 930/1520,i'm selling mine to purchase 930
  • I agree, definitely the best, but soooo slow... Had my 1020 for about a year, loved it, but I couldn't take how slow it was in regard to the camera. I ended up selling it and getting the 930 - obviously not as good camera quality but still amazing and soooo fast! :D Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • The question is: Why Proshot can be faster than Lumia Camera, with so much controls?
  • The customer wants not so much some particular stuff, as he wants to feel that he is not left behind/neglected.
  • You're receiving a new update (8.1.1) like everyone else, all phones. What do you want? If you are on Preview, you already receive that, but before the normal users, but you receive, at some point.
  • And why Lumia 535 cannot get Lumia camera v5? It's with denim right out of the box.
  • Probably because you were too cheap to buy a phone with pureview tech.
  • Lumia 535 isnt Qualcomm 8xx ARM CPU
  • It's like in the old Soviet Union days, when people made queues outside the stores and when in the line started asking what are we queuing for?
  • btw why HDR and faster APP startup for Lumia camera cant reach older lumias? (hint: MS is lazy) Aint no hardware issue,
  • "But, but... Free Stuff!" Yeah, people know firmware is free. Not getting it to them is like missing out on a great deal, and it drives them nuts.  I sometimes think if they offered a free "swift kick in the pants" a lot of people would line up, because... "Free Stuff!"  Ah... just the ones that need to be in such a line.
  • Daniel, it's like being on the streets of NY and some firm is giving "stuff" away.  Even if people don't know what it is they want it.  Cracks me up.
  • So true! All this whining and then when they get it they suddenly realize what a non event it is and move onto the next thing ;)
  • Caller ID, Bluetooth 4.0. Only available with the firmware. Not available on my 810.
  • I just want the camera app to start faster on my Lumia 1020. I don't need 4K video, rich capture, etc. I just don't want to miss getting a picture, because I am staring at Resuming...
  • I know exactly what I want!! I want Cortana!! I'm in the UK and not on the developer preview which means I don't have Cortana on my 1020, so that's why I desperately want the Denim update!!
  • Change your region  language and speech to US all done
  • Sorry, duplicate post.
  • More to the point: "Free Stuff"
  • Daniel, despite my appreciation for your contribution into WP world, I am quite upset with your statement. I know exactly what I want from the next firmware and this applies to all IT, Mobile or A/V that presents some issues or have obvious room for improvement: 1. Fix bugs 2. Provide features requested by multitudes of users To be more specific. I don't want from my L1020 to freeze, wait ages looking at 'Updating' or 'Refreshing' screen (especially when I just left application). What I want is butter smooth experience from WP8 era, camera app that opens and takes photos faster and freaking gapless music playback. Is it much to ask for? Is it beyond current phone spec. No and No.
  • I'm assuming he was hoping for the improved camera performance granted to newer, higher-end phones.  If the older and lower-end hardware doesn't support the new capabilities, that's fine but I can understand why some may be disappointed to learn this.
  • More performance? Isn't your camera good enough? My friend have a L720 and it's pretty satisfaction.
  • @Zapella Performance in terms of speed. Start up is slow, saving images is slow. Too slow for a phone that's launched in 2013.
  • I don't think it's slow. For a mid-low-end phone.
  • Okay, so I know the OP is talking about the low end Lumias, but what about the 1020? It's considered as a high end device, and given its current speed performance, don't you think some form of speed improvement is needed?
  • In a way older and low end Lumias are in a bad position because even though they are not getting new firmware, the official update rollout has been extremely slow. I guess even Cyan rolled out faster than Denim.
  • Is it time to upgrade my 920?
  • I was wondering more along the lines of: is it time to upgrade to an iPhone.
  • +920, the iPhone seems like my next move if w10 doesn't fix this platforms glaring issues that it's had for years
  • I never expected to want to go back to iPhone. Then again, I never expected WP to never catch up after 4 years.
  • Lol you are just being silly. The iphone is just a boring and limited platform, why in the world would you want to switch to one? It's worse in pretty much every way to a high end Lumia. At least find out what is coming to windows 10 before making silly statements.
  • You'll be bored of that little tile grid you escaped from. Let's see what WP10 is bringing...
  • your logic is so laughable >WP been around for 4 years and still not better then iphone and androids! >IOS was released 9 years ago >Android was release 9 years ago   You guys do infact realize that ios and android have had more than DOUBLE the amount of time windows phone has to mature right? when you compare to how long it took ios and android to get where they are, I'd say WP is progressing pretty damn fast... 
  • But you also have to account for that once something is already thought up, the other teams don't have to think it up, just see how it was done and implement something similar. WP was well on its way to surpassing iPhone before iOS 8, but with the 8.1 redesign, they put themselves behind because of the time they had to spend reprogramming things from the ground up that they had already done (like the music app or removing the FB integration). Will they catch up? Maybe, but once again, Windows 10 is *another* ground up redesign, meaning there is a huge chance we will be missing features we already had, for a second time, while they recode them, just to catch up with themselves, let alone iOS.
  • 8.1 was neccesary, yea hubs were cool, but it quickly became apparent that it wouldn't work, microsoft simply cant release updates fast enough to keep up with sites like facebook, what they should do is a psuedo hubs, where you download an app, and that app can tie into the hubs, and is responsible for keeping the hub functioning, I'm hoping microsoft goes that route.   the music app needed it desperately, after 2 attempts to fix the duplicate music issue they still failed, clearly that says that something was just borked, and imo this music app is way better, that gray gradient looks hideous in metro   Also, where did you hear W10 is a ground up red design? I highly doubt that, its most likely gonna be a moderately, perhaps heavily, tweaked UI, with a ton of features
  • iOS was released 7 Years ago Android was released 6 Years ago
  • Which is?
  • what are these issues
  • Cuz it runs better and stuff.
  • If you want to "upgrade", an iPhohe - with the 2 year old tech of the 920 - isn't it. Upgrade to an Android device. There's plenty of high quality offer out there, better than the iPhone. And you can still use all your Microsoft services and access Nokia's HERE maps and future apps.
  • I will never get an Android. I used one at work for a while and told them they could have it back and I would use my phone.
  • You're so cool!
  • No way. I already use Android for my second phone (and as test device too). Been using Acer, LG, Samsung, and got the taste of Sony for some moment. None of them were satisfactory in term of my "user experience". If I do have to jump platform, I'll switch to iOS. Android will always be my secondary phone no matter what (since I need them as test devices anyway).
  • I have Galaxy S4 Active lagdroid.....NEVER AGAIN ANDROID !!!
  • alright all fanboy comments aside, if your galaxy s4 really lagging?? cuz that's embarrassing if it is. I used to have an EVO LTE and it was an awesome phone. HTC was the reason it lagged cuz of stupid Sense. cant believe Samsung touchwiz is still a lag machine -_- so sad
  • I have friends switching from iphones and you're leaving xD
  • I'm not going back to Android, well, not for now. I cannot afford an iPhone either and I am currently happy with Windows because of Windows 10 and, ehem, Candy Crush...
  • Wow. Drinking the candy crush koolaid. I would never play their game just because they shunned us until it was convenient.
  • I know right but, I was able to convince my workmates to play it again, and they're not using Windows phones. I also gained a little bit of attention because of that annoying life and ticket requests. I'm already popular btw, lol.
  • There isn't really an upgrade for us 920 users.  There is a bunch of sidegrades.
  • No. Newer phones seem to have lower end cpus, and the 920 will benefit from Denim. I have an 820 (sameish as 920 inside) with the dev preview and mine still says Cyan, which means according to the article that it needs a further upgrade to be Denim.
  • The 920 and the 1020 are older CPUs which are not "compatible" with the Denim improvements... Which would be ok if the was an newer 10x0 ;[
  • Is there a way to officially get Cortana for the Lumia 1020 in the UK? I've got it with the DP bit my friend is hesitant about taking the plunge. I thought it would come with Denim.
  • Denim means OS and/or Firmware. The Lumia 1020 will still get 8.1.1 officially, so yes, Cortana.
  • So now the naming series that used be reserved for exclusively for Lumia firmware updates will now refer to OS and/or firmware updates. Brilliant, Microsoft, way to add confusion.
  • You're insane. I tried explaining the difference between OS and firmware to people and they were so confused. Having one naming scheme is the smart thing to do. Good thing you're not in charge of any decisions at Microsoft lol
  • Denim is the firmware NOT the OS, unless you're saying that Samsung and HTC devices are getting Lumia Denim as well?
  • Lets try this FIRMWARE is like an upgrade to your computer BIOS.  Tells the device what features are avaliable that were not in the past or fixes features that were not working correctly.  No different than when say your BD player gets an update.
  • Devin is also firmware the is exclusive to Nokia. HTC and Samsung can write their firmware separately. Then, the carriers can change the firmware even further if they so choose.
  • So denim is a Code name for updates to Lumia phones As they are always a package it can contain many things. depending on your HW your may get all or a few less as you dont need firmware updates for HW you dont have. This doesnt need to be difficult.... I am sure iphones without FP sensor didnt get that FW update either.
  • Cortana and Live Folders (GDR1) will come with Denim - as this article mentioned, in the case of devices like the 1020, Denim and GDR1 are essentially the same thing. The update is the only official consumer way of enabling Cortana on a UK device (bar changing the region to US and getting the US version of Cortana). I've also got a 1020, and I'm in the UK, so I'm patiently awaiting Denim so that I can use Cortana properly (I briefly tried the US version via switching region, and whilst it was great, the region change had implications with the store and stuff).
  • The most insade thing EVER
    is the "Region"
    why? WHY? W*H*Y torture pooe users!
    One stoer for the Universum!
    Several Languages.
    Cortana totally Separate from the phone region/language/keyboard/speech
    but
    I'm no Bill Gates
  • ...except Cortana will use the native language were applicable, including accent
  • Let's say I was born in Marocco and speak Arabic and French
    but my parents were originally from Switcherland and Finland
    I Moved to France to study in the University and then later had a job in Canada.
    Now, I could have the weather in Canada in Arabic language easily,
    but I bough the phone in France - it has the warranty only in France (or EU)
    The company I work for is an International company using US English
    so I set the Region to Canada
    Where do I shop?
    What language will I use with my Finnish mother? Finnish or Swedish?
    What about my Swiss father? Italian or French? Perhaps the German language?
    What does Cortana understand?
    Can she translate?
    Can she be bi-lingual? Tri-lingual?
    Can I buy a program that works in Arabic if I ever visit my birth place in Marocco?
    Do I keep on switching the Region, The Language, th Speech, the Keyboard, Cortana? I WANT UNIVERSAL PHONE !!! and I need it way before any Windows 10 "Universal Apps"
    when they are not universal at all!
    sad - Sad - SAD Whoever is leading this "innovation" is devil-grazy and Doomed to Burn!
    unless....
    REPENT !!!
     
  • Microsoft is releasing major updates with no real influence too quickly. They should slow down and work on the quality of Windows 10.
  • "They should slow down and work on the quality of Windows 10."
    I mean, they are. This is why there is not too much in the forthcoming GDR2 update.
  • Which means that truly new hardware is announced together with WM 10 in April 30th at BUILD.
    Welcome Lumia 1040 and the other unnamed prototype! (plus a few more during the year).
  • Microsoft suckss hard in globally updating devices..
  • Not as bad as Google ;)
  • Google does a pretty good job with their Nexus devices. They update within weeks of each other. As far as I've noticed.
  • Literally .01% of Android phones have Lollipop a month after its been out.
  • Yes but is Google to blame for that? I think that's because of Samesung and the other producers. They've all made their on UI on top of Android which they all have to update to Lollipop. Most the low-end devices properly will never see Lollipop. Googles own Nexus devices are the only devices that get the updates fast, which is why I've never bought or recommended anything else when it comes to Android.
  • Google good at updates? Not telling customers much as per link http://www.neowin.net/news/after-throwing-microsoft-under-the-bus-google...
  • I don't see the connection between Googles childish disclosure of OS security faults and the topic in this comment..?
  • If you read the whole article you would see!
  • Nope, I still don't see it. In this thread we are talking about the release of new a OS not small patches.
  • The OS update includes mitigation for the vulnerability. Updates and patches are considerably worse for Android with the exception of Nexus support. Even then, older devices may not qualify the latest and greatest.
  • Precisely as I said... Updates for Nexus devices come fast, and everyone else is left alone until the respective producer gets around to do something...
  • The article in question notes that there are somewhere around a billion devices that run Android 4.3. Google's mitigation path is to update the OS. To my knowledge, they don't have a patch and if they did, it would still come in the form of an OS update. You asked why the article is relevant. It demonstrates that the Android ecosystem is heavily fragmented and most people are out of luck. Their OEM may never update their code and / or device firmware to support the latest version. While Microsoft's approach isn't perfect, it is considerably better than Android specifically because they do not allow OEM's to modify the platform.
  • Okay, one more time... I've only talked about that Google is doing great with their Nexus devices! I also said that other devices are left behind because of their producers. So the article is by no means relevant... You cannot blame Google for Samsungs and others slow update rate. Likewise it isn't MSs fault that Samsung doesn't give c**p about their WP phones...
  • I have a Nexus 2013 and have yet to received an update to 5.0.
  • My sons Nexus 7 from 2012 got it very fast.
  • Ask a Nexus 5 and below owner what they think of Lolipop.  They like the look and feel, but very buggy and laggy.  I know a few that have this and they all agree with the same comments.
  • But that still has nothing to do with this topic! We are discussing the time it takes to release a new OS... Lollipop is actually the first update in ages that hasn't slowed my sons Nexus 7 even more...
  • Sure it does. If an update is buggy then what is the value of releasing them so fast.
  • I give up...
  • Good!!
  • 5.1 Lollipop is the real deal - you've been scroogled.
    5.0 is permanent Beta
  • I bought a Moto G 2014 I was promised to receive Lollipop but the PFD is not as simple as for WP users, you have to suk their cok and beg until they finally give you lollipop from motorola for trial purposes... I had to move back to 920 anyway not only for my beloved camera but for the usb Port on moto g which after 3 months of use ITS BROKEN. I really miss NOKIA and their QUALITY. (until 2011)
  • did you really get to do THAT?
    was it gay...I mean...joyful?
  • You must know for sure "cyberangel"
  • I think I correctly formed a sentence with a question...  
  • Google updates the Nexus line pretty quickly. Android OEMs, however, take their time, as they need to incorporate the OS Google sends them with their own Android skins. If Microsoft allowed OEMs to actually customize the OS (instead of just preloading apps and adding accent colours), Windows Phone OEMs (well...all three of them) would also take their time to incorporate the OS Microsoft sent with their "Windows skin".
  • No here the carriers do it. As I wait for an update to my Lumia Icon. It will be nexus devices for me from here on out.
  • No patch for serious bug unless you have KitKat/Lollipop
  • Yes, may be when it comes to firmware updates but its not Microsoft but the different carriers who are delaying. The preview for developers enrolled devices are getting updates as soon as they are released by Microsoft without any hassle.
  • This should get better though with Windows 10 since the updating would be the same right?
  • Still better than Google. Even Google's own Android One devices are not getting the Lollipop update as promised.  
  • This is just to sell new Lumias.
    All Lumias could received the new Lumia Camera.
    Could come with missing features? Yup.
    But even then it would come with new algorithms, and open faster. Tip: I installed on my 720 the new Lumia Camera, and open faster. Take better pictures too. The only problem is touch to focus that dosn't work. http://www.wincentral.com.br/2015/01/confira-como-instalar-o-novo-lumia-...
  • Not really. As Juha explained, each firmware/camera update is tailored for EACH specific Lumia, since they all have different sensors and lenses. This takes a lot of time to perfect each algorithm set - they are not, as you imply, universal. As such, they work on a limited range of devices. Fact is, the Lumia 720 is an OLD phone now and I think it is unfair to expect a company to continually update EVERY aspect of it two years later. Especially since you are getting new OS updates.
  • Yeah, it's understood that improving the imaging algorithm isn't an easy task, but an improved camera speed to fix the significant lag that seems to plague the older Lumias (especially the 1020) is desperately needed.
  • So explain why the new Lumia Camera also doesn't work on Lumia 730/735?  Have a new hardware. :)
  • Well, there's one point though: they could have, at least for the 1020, spent the time adding HDR to the Nokia Camera. Even if not working as Rich Capture, there's absolutely no hardware justification for the 1020 to not get HDR.   Yes, basically Microsoft abandoned all devices not released by Microsoft Mobile. That's pretty much the system. Exception: the 1520 because they had no way to justify anything under the "hardware limitations" banner.   And it would be fine...IF they admited it. They just don't. And when it comes to the 1020, I can understand the frustration of those who have one (I do too but I use the 808 more often now) and would like to have the new features but have no 1030 available. For all intents and purposes, the 1020 is still the imaging flagship for WP. Abandoning it without releasing the 1030 shortly after just seems like a bad bad move.
  • And I did not say that the algorithms were universal.
    Each device must have optimized algorithms. For it serves the firmware. I know that.
    In Amber, Black and Cyan had camera improvements for all Lumias. New algorithms also.
  • "In Amber, Black and Cyan had camera improvements for all Lumias." This is completely INCORRECT!
  • No, isn't.
  • gr8, first release half baked buggy features with promise of updates and then say that if unfair to expect company to update "older" phones.
  • Until they release a true upgrade to older phones, we will still be looking to get the features. After all why do lower end phones get things? The lower end 830 will benefit but not the superior 820? Sounds like marketing trying to sell lower end devices as 'upgrades' when they are not.
  • Rubino then why Living Images worked for sometime for Lumia 920 and then they decided to take it from us? Do you have an answer for that almighty?
  • Wait: There is a "WinCentral" site here in Brazil?? I'm feeling shame right now...
  • And before Windows Central =P
    Since June 2014
  • How is the low light situation in 720?
  • Here go: http://forums.windowscentral.com/windows-phone-8-1/334703-i-installed-ne...
  • Just curious to see if this works, I was able to get it on my 928 with Denim but there are several issues i noticed by just messing around with it for a few minutes. - Every so often the error message comes up about not having Denim and have to back out of the App and then reopen. - Touch Focus does not work. - And probably the most meaningful issue is that it wont take any Pictures/Videos because it says I do not have enough storage.  (5.01GB Free) But it does start up and switch between menus a lot faster so I guess thats a plus.
  • So basically this assholes at Microsoft couldn't be bothered to make it clear since the start? They really need to improve A LOT on communication
  • To be honest, what has changed? Lumia Denim was always about Lumia Camera 5.0, HDR, Dynamic Flash, 4K video, etc. We all knew since September that this was the case. To put it another way: What was it exactly about Lumia Denim that you were expecting for your particular phone that you are not getting? Did Microsoft promise some new feature for your phone that they are now backing out on? I'm not aware of one...
  • Live folders is a feature which comes with denim for all lumias? So there is something for everyone :P
  • I can tell you that we were led to believe the 830 would have this at launch... and then, 'just wait for Lumia Camera v5... now it's "oh you don't have the REAL Denim".
  • Are you sure? I have Cyan on my L925 and I have live folders.
  • Are you on preview for developers?
  • That's because you're like us, "cheating" by snatched those OS update before official release (which is Denim in Lumia case).. :p
  • I think regardless of what anyone was expecting, this information should have been out there. For months there has been confusion about if someone has Denim or not due to what we assumed was an Extras and Info bug. Now they tell us the real story... why didn't they just clear all this up back then? I love Microsoft, but I really do believe their communication needs a lot of improvement.
  • "I love Microsoft, but I really do believe their communication needs a lot of improvement."
    In this case, I do agree. However and in fairness, Microsoft is waaay more open and transparent today than even a few years ago. They are getting better, but there will still be, ahem, hiccups. They are trying and I think with the Nokia/MS merging some things got bumpy. I think starting with Windows 10 Lumias, you will a much more unified Microsoft-Lumia message.
  • Yes Microsoft in ALL it's press releases and on Windows Mobile online and in You Tube videos when rolling out the "afforable flagshit" Lumia 830 said it INCLUDED the new Lumia Camera with all the features (except 4K video) and it didn't  That was a lie just to sell the Lumia 830.  But I guess it was foolish of me to believe that bullshit hype...so that is a glaring feature that MicroSoftshit promised and not only backed out of but LIED about...so now you are aware of one.... ;-
  • What exactly did they not make clear since the start? All this really is nothing new and has been known for weeks if not months. Just you seem to either have miread or misunderstood all previous posts, announcements and comments on this does not mean you can blame MSFT for making a final clear statement.
  • Him and me. And not you. On average you lost.
  • We were all told that lumia camera improvements are coming for these specific devices...it all matters how u jump into the news! For me they never left us in confusion for lumia camera nd afterall this is the only real bump for gdr 1
  • I own a Lumia 720 and I personally don't expect each and every feature to come to lower end devices. Yes, I'd like the speed of Lumia camera to increase, but if it won't, I have no complaints. Microsoft is doing a much better job in comparison to google when it comes to OS updates. I just hope that windows 10 works well on my device. :)
  • A rationale response! :) Yes, Lumia 720 is continuing to get OS updates, even likely Windows 10. There is a lot that is good here too.
  • Unfortunately Lumia 720 doesn't have the same smoothness after upgrading to 8.1 as I used to see in 8.0. Resuming screen is much more present. That's one reason I bought a Lumia 830. So, in my case, I'm not hoping for better.
    (Btw, I still like more the ergonomics of that old 720)
  • whats wrong in expecting HDR, dont tell me it needs a quad core snapdragon 8xx SOC
  • I'm downloading an Excel sheet to my old Ford.
    Since my cousin has a V8 I'm expecting to upgrade my 4.cyl to octacyl!
    Also the car should go from 0 to 60 mph in half the time!
    It's only 30 years older, but Ford has to support me forever for free
    or I bitch about how bad it is publicly
    so that all my friends go and buy an iPhone, Mac, & Harley-Davidson
    plus a Trabant with Apple logo on the roof top for the quattro-copter cameras!
    Yeah! Bitch! (=Ford!)
  • @cyberangel so true. Although HDR is a feature my old iPhone 4s had I think. So the mid end x30 and high end x20 could have handled it. But complaining whilst you have you have a budget or lower end device is just whining.
  • +720
  • +720
  • Ahh is this why I cant run Lumia camera on my uk 1520? It says denim , but when I try to run the camera app it tells me to update to denim. When I looked for the camera app it said it was not available for my phone. I have just installed it via this site but it wont work.
  • Yeah, even my AT&T Lumia 1520 says Denim, though it has no update. Toggling Preview for Developers on/off will change it from Cyan Denim. Quirky bug. Still, this does mean that the devices like the AT&T Lumia 1520 will get new firmware to enable the Camera 5.0.
  • Odd, my AT&T 1520 still says Cyan and it's toggled "on" for dev preview. It's never said Denim that I've noticed. Does yours say Denim when it's toggled "off"?
  • Press back button, and it works! I tried it on my Lumia 1520 with Lumia Cyan (not Denim yet in Thailand).
  • What about 535??
  • What about it? You are not asking a real question. It says Lumia Denim, no? So what are you asking for specifically...what feature are you expecting. Use words.
  • I don't know why you always be in the mood to break the skull of an offender. ohh please tell us Lord Daniel !!! :P
  • Daniel is way too nice.
     
  • Because people are generally idiots, and daniel seems to be well aware of that :P
  • I'm user of DP, and Xtra n info could denim/cyan ... haha ... I love it.
    Will my Lumia 620 get windows 10 updates ?
  • It comes to Every Dual-core Lumia since 820/920 = Windows Phone 8.x devices generally.
    EVERY
    (Unless your *Operator* < sensored > you)
    Also HTC / Samsung / etc might play with you & your old Windows 8 Phone
    Microsoft deliveres!
  • Mine too! Little bug. But I don't mind! Lol better then nothing :) 1520.2 unlocked :)
  • That was obvious, but people insist on not understand. The firmware number does not changed..
  • The answer for everything is Windows 10!
  • Well time to hit up ebay for a used 1520 or 930 Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • Daniel any news about will this update change the Cortana stage from alpha to beta like alpha one for India...update is bringing cortana to new regions that's y can we expect something...
  • What??
  • I don't mind that phones with older hardware won't get the Denim update.  I am dissapointed that MS still has not released a new hero device to replace the 1020.
  • Win 10
  • Announce in Build: Lumia 1040: Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaast! (compared to the old 2-core 1020)
    Not sure if SD 805 or SD 810 
  • Because outside of this website and wp enthusiasts' the 1020 is a niche device. It's camera is it's only good aspect.
  • Sorry did not finish my comment. Because of it's niche status and MS's current strategy of bringing more low-end devices a 1030 will not be a priority. But maybe after so many low-end devices a 1020 successor is in the pipeline.
  • No denim yet for 1520 in Africa
  • I'm happy with my cyan already
  • Now anyone can stop asking why their phones say Denim... PS.: Waiting to MS release Denim (the firmware one) to my Lumia 830. I searched in the Availability Page and the Lumia 830 is only listed in 4 countries around the world, and all of them with Denim already. Seams weird, I am pretty sure that this phone was released in more countries...
  • Just waiting fo windows 10
  • I could care less about any future updates to my 920. Turned PFD off a long time ago and still do not have Cyan on AT&T. Just HURRY UP and release the Lumia Camera 5 update for the 830 already and I will buy it!
  • I couldn't care less*   Could care less means you do care somewhat.
  • So why do I have a Lumia 920 with Cyan firmware on PfD that does not show Denim? They're explanation still doesn't explain some of the behavior.
  • +920
  • Just wish at&t would hurry with the denim already...
  • My little 635 is already showing its age... Only 512mb. I need a 930.
  • Search around. You can probably find a killer deal for it.
  • Same old thing, sell more new phones, care less for old ones....
  • Sounds familiar
  • That's how they all including Apple and Google does it to make money! Duhh! It's the way of the world you know.. Just saying.
  • What it's mean.that Lumia 535 doesn't get Lumia camera 5.0
  • Lumia Camera 5.0 is for PureView devices only. Lumia 535 does not qualify. This...this is not news.
  • Wasn't 920 a pureview phone.
  • ALL the new features ONLY with SD 8xx CPU = Lumia 930 & Icon & 1520
    Almost all new Camera tricks = Lumia 830 (UHD=no, FHD=yes)
    Others: many nice Denim fetures, but no deal with superior new camera features.
  • Not everyone wants to carry a tablet in their pocket.
  • Are you talking to me?
    I must tell you that I'm a little bit grazy taxi driver...
    Are you talking to me?
  • I hope that windows 10 for phone will be optimized to work better on older hardware (lumia 520,620)
  • What do you mean by better? Getting high-end functions on a low-end device?
  • My phone runs windows phone 8.1 update 1 and it does not run as well as it ran windows phone 8 mainly the resuming and refresh rate problems kill the experience plus microsoft's new focus onto quad core hardware makes it seem like they are not optimizing the os enough for older dual core hardware thus its is not a completely seemless experience across all win phone 8* devices. But i do appreciate that microsoft actually updates their older hardware (unlike android) but there is a need for optimization atleast for the 512 mb dual core devices
     
  • Microsoft themselves are confused
  • 2nd Paragraph, 2nd Sentence: "For months, we have 'be'..." Fix please. Not bothering me, just caught my eye, and I love the flow of words you all use, just want to make sure it's perfect :)
  • So what do you mean about the 920 not getting a firmware update? Has it been said that it won't get Denim?
  • It will get Denim, but only with new OS version. Thats it.
  • From what I read, Denim is a combination of firmware, Lumia apps, and OS.  920 doesn't need new firmware (presumably because the hardware doesn't support whatever enhancements are included).  It will still be called "Denim" when the other elements of the platform are upgraded.
  • Did you read the article? Denim it's just de comercial name, could be a OS + Firmware update OR just OS update (depends on your phone).
  • 1030 on win10 please.
  • It would be a 1040. McLaren was probably the 1030.
  • Agreed!  I would love a reason to upgrade my 920!  I would have gone with the 930 if it was released with AT&T 4G bands in the US.  Still, the 920 is doing what I need it to do.  I'm just ready for a new toy.
  • All new W10 devices are (x)x4x
    => Lumia 1040
  • I thought the 1020 was supposed to get performance boosts in the camera launch time
  • now only windows 10
  • Will the Lumia 730/735 get the new Lumia camera update in the future since it basically has the same hardware as the Lumia 830 except the camera?
  • No, Microsoft will focus on newer models, as suggested by the article.
  • At.last a clear story from Microsoft but I would have helped if they would have published it a few month's ago.
  • Strange. I know I had denim on my 1520 via preview for developers but it looks it has somehow gone back to cyan. My live folders are still there. No camera or Cortana improvements though. Anyone else have this? How to fix?
  • Still waiting for denim. I think Microsoft takes overall two years to release windows 10 for all Lumia phones that specified.
  • Optimist! ;-)
  • If they are not going to support L1020 any more then why there is no successor available till now? -A guy stuck on 1020
  • Complicated. Things changed when Nokia + MS merged divisions. Roadmaps shift. Plus, Microsoft likely wants to time Lumia 1020 replacement with proper Windows 10 launch. Otherwise, headlines would be this: "Microsoft releases new Lumia 1020 successor with old OS"
  • Thanks for answering!
    And one more question
    Is denim bring equalizer feature for Lumia 630(India) ?
  • No
  • Yaa... That's their decision...
  • I expect that starting with Windows 10 for phones we won't have Black, Cyan, Denim -type releases aymore because those Lumias will be developed solely by Microsoft and not by two separate divisions (from Nokia and Microsoft) which necessitated separate OS+named-firmware releases. What is disappointing, and I'm saying that as a Lumia 1020 owner, is that Lumia Camera 5.0 start-up speed improvements can be had in all phones - not only 930/1520/Icon. I'm not talking about photo processing improvements or other new functionality which definitely needs to be tweaked for each device. The start-up speed improvement comes solely from general software optimizations. I still have hope that Lumia Camera will become part of Windows 10 and replace the Microsoft Camera that's bundled right now.
  • 1. you cant separate the os from the firmware. each phone from each manufacturer has it's own firmware needed to optimize the performace of the cameras,screens,radios and so on. lumias need their own firmware for supersensitivescreen,dolby enhancements,camera sensors and s on. htc needs it's own firmware for their ultrapixel camera,intelligent screencover, ir blaster and so on. 2. lumia camera for the 830/930/1520 isn't that same old camera optimized. Juha said it's been rebuilt from the ground up for newer generation processors and most likely to serve as a base for the newer versions that will come in the next years with newer features enabled by next gen processors(think 64 bit snapdragon 615,808,810). to solve the speed problems they need proably to redo the standard lumia camera classic, but i think that would take time and resources that are best used working for future devices instead of 2 year old ones
  • You misunderstood me. Read my post again please. I was talking about not giving firmware any specific names like we have now (Black, Cyan, etc.), which causes all sorts of confusion because most people aren't that well informed. It sure isn't the same Camera app, it makes use of different APIs that were opened up with Windows Phone 8.1. They don't need to redo the Classic app - only cut down on the new app's features that older phones can't use. Use the old algorhythms and same old functionality. But not solving the 4-second camera loading time for a product that is 1) not EOL  and 2) is the current camera flagship is not cool. Shot-to-shot times can't be shortened - that is an obvious thing but basic app optimisation - that is expected. Especially from a company that prides itself on being one of the few true software giants.
  • Something tells me that not all WP8 devices will be getting W10...
  • It has happened before which I doubt but you never know.
  • For sure all WP8 device will get WM10, because MSFT already said that. What may happen is.... "some functions or features are device exclusive". :P
  • EVERY SINGLE WSindows Phone 8 Device
    but...
    there's always a but(t)
    HTC / Samsung / etc did not promice W10
    Your operator may delay their special model until Christ comes...
    Otherwise any WP8.x (dualcore or more) will get it - Get it? Note: You might need Denim first...I'm really worried about the Lumia 530 with only 4 GB Storage
  • The 1020 is the best camera mobile phone. For me Microsoft have two options. a) Find a specific  "way" to update the Lumia camera app... for 1020 or b) "create" (yesterday!!!) a mobile phone with the 41MP of 1020 and cutting edge specs   (...waisting... the camera of 1020 it is absolutely, unnesesairy... and not only...)
  • For some reason, I'm not able to open extras + info :|
  • I thought the 830 wasn't getting Lumia camera 5.0
  • It gets it (whenever it gets the "final/real" Denim) but without 4k video capture.
  • Ok now what is the "final/real" denim?
    And does the Lumia camera in 830 have fast startup?
  • UHD = FHD...otherwise Lumia Camera 5.0 with all the goodies
    Hey Cortana missing (Qualcomm SD 8xx only)
    anything else....? Hmmmm...can't recall
  • I wish they would give an explanation on why my 830 doesn't have the "real" Denim, and why I was misled from the beginning.
  • Or you could be happy with the phone you bought? I mean, why would you buy a phone based on what it's going to do at some point in the future?
  • Um... It was suppose to have Denim preinstalled. That's the point.
    Also, at/before release of the 830, the Lumia Camera v5 benefits were advertised as Denim benefits - no one said we'd have to wait for a new camera app, and now that the new app is here we find out that the Denim in the 830 isn't "real" or "final".
  • For the 830, that's harsh Richard.  They did advertise it as having a bunch of features in Q4 last year, so it's very expected to be frustrated not to get that update yet. Older phones, sure, people need to be happy with, but we all watched the presentation showing what the 830 should be able to do.  And even then reporters were confused about what would get Hey Cortana and 4K for a day or two...
  • He didn't say the future, he said the now when he bought it.
  • To be fair, Microsoft did state that the 830 would ship with denim, but left the explain as to why the fast camera functions etc. Were not there yet until today. Communication on Microsoft's side was a little lacking. A simple "* some features may not be available at launch would have sufficed. " Sorry you guys are having to deal with this crap storm because some people do not understand the difference between firmware and software :(
  • just a few more weeks...
  • in that a majority of users would not have bought WP
  • I was going to sidegrade from 920 to 830 thinking the new Lumia camera updates were upgrades. If they aren't getting everything Denim has to offer I'm glad I didn't.
  • 830 will get everything
    but
    UHD (FHD instead)
    &
    "Hey Cortana!"
    &
    hmmmm....was there something else...? Personaly I think that the Lumia 1520 with 6" screen is way better deal!
  • Wow, so disappointing. Why is this so hard for them to explain?
  • So to clarify on the 920, it may not get a firmware update but can/will get new features (e.g. Live Folders)?
  • Yes
  • No, as an old phones, it won't get all the new features.
  • So Lumia 920 wont get the camera enhancements via denim? That blows. I'm almost ready for a new device anyway and windows 10 is just around the bend.
  • Maybe my perception and understanding of firmware is off, but I was hoping that the official 8.1.1 update would include model specific optimizations for my 925. The 'resuming' issue is quite prevalent and I assumed it was the price to pay for running Dev Preview.
    Unless I am completely misunderstanding what's happening here, it seems that I am stuck with this 'resuming' issue even when I get 8.1.1 official.
  • "Resuming" issue on devices using WP8.1 (especially when talking about high end phones) is mostly app related. Developers are slow (or lazy) to update their apps and make use of fast app switching feature which was introduced with WP8.1.
  • Well, considering that it happens with some of MSFT's own apps - including built in services like email, text messaging - your explanation does not completely hold water.
  • My explanation holds water but unfortunately some of Microsoft's own developer teams are also very slow :) Skype is definitely not optimized for fast app switching, MSN News also (and all other MSN apps I presume). But I don't have any resuming issues with email and text messaging and like you I'm using Lumia 925. If I'm not mistaken firmware update was in fact promised for 925 & 1020 (no new features, just some bug fixing).
  • Firmware = device specific hardware drivers Software = programs that do not tell the hardware directly how to function. Look at it as say a cab. You tell the driver of the cab where you want to go, and he takes you there. Now the hardware in the older devices are like a rickshaw, sure you can replace the driver with Mario Andretti, but the rickshaw is not going to go any faster no matter what you do.
  • What on earth are you babbling about?
  • since older lumia just get OS update; then what's the hold up with Lumia 830 can't even use Lumia Camera 5. But worry not.. I am a very patience man and will wait for whatever updates destine for my Lumia 830 to enable that Lumia Camera 5; and to own Lumia windows phone; one must have jedi level type of patience :))
  • Actually there's a trick you can try, go ahead and get fun! http://wmpoweruser.com/exclusive-this-one-weird-trick-will-let-you-use-lumia-camera-5-on-your-cyan-pureview-phone/ PD: I have a L1020, so I can't try that.
  • i did tried this trick about a week ago on my L830. all the new features on camera lumia 5 are still not there except the camera did start pretty fast. after tried it, i uninstall it but when windows central published a story about lumia camera update 2 days ago, i try again to install it but i can't because it says i must update my phone to use lumia camera 5. lets play the waiting game
  • Strong the force is with this one.
  • I live in Uruguay, I'm in developer preview so I have 8.1.1 but still in Black update. I have a Lumia 1520. Also Microsoft remove my Operator/Model (Claro/1520) from: https://www.windowscentral.com/e?link=https2F%2Fclick.linksynergy.co...
  • At least you will continue to receive updates to WP10 etc. Some people say you can flash the firmware from another region to a phone... since Denim on a 1520 is a big gain you might want to look at that path.  Contact your Carrier first though. Generallly I would never recommend doing this, but you'll be missing out of some really neat features if you don't get Denim somehow. Try the Nokia recovery tool too to check for an upgrade.
  • Thank you for your answer, I'll  try your recommendation.
  • I don't care if I have denim or not. Happy with cyan
  • When Lumia denim wil available for 820 in India ???? Because I am unable to install windows previewer beta in my Lumia???
  • Windows previewer beta isn't a public app as of now.
  • Some of the denim firmware for the 930 is up on navifirm and the Nokia download tool I'd anyone wants to update their phone that route
  • Does it mean the Lumia camera 5.0 update is not on the cards for non-pureview phones? Or is it like the phone will receive the camera update but wont be able to record 4k videos and stuff that the high end pureview Lumias can?
  • 930, Icon and 1520 will receive new firmware and Lumia Camera 5 (and 4K);
  • But my question was wrt the other Lumia phones!! 4k I can understand why it wont be there for other Lumias. But atleast the update to 5.0 barring 4k can be brought to them!
  • Lumia Camera 5 it's all about 4k and Rich. 
  • 830 gets it, too (but UHD=FHD) for old models...what do you think? You need to buy new hardware....sorry
  • What about driver and OS optimizations for older phones? Already my 920 has crap battery life, how crap MS want to make it? And heating issue? I think we need firmware just for optimization without new features.
  • I've had 5 battery swaps with my 920. And still bat life is bad, and heating issues.
  • Same phone, same issue.  Just an issue with the hardware somewhere I guess...
  • I hear you. I'm in the same boat. I believe many of us are.
  • oh you cant expect MS to take care of ollllllllllllddddddddddddddddddd  phones. /S
  • One Developer & one "normal" Lumia 920 Finland CV = no problems what-so-ever!
  • So no update for 920.. That's no surprise.
  • Live Folders, Data Toggle ans some minor things....better VPN....hmmm...something else, too....
  • Hope Microsoft and Verizon have the Icon taken care of before the 21st.
  • I still dont have denim on my 930. WTF
  • Let's be honest here, who didn't know this already?
  • In name only?. So what's that mean for my 930 and 1520
  • Wait and you'll get a full Denim with OS and firmware update.
  • Wow... Daniel is replying to almost every comment posted on this article. When did you get so much time Dan? :)
  • The answer is simple: You're always passionate about what you love doing.
  • Then non-Pureview phone like 720 will not get any advantage from Denim in the Camera category .... Little bit low light improvement would be better .... ^_*
  • At certain point Old Hardware Won't be Able to handle new Software requirement ... i.e. Lumia Camera 5 & Hey Cortana. What were people expecting? You can't honestly expect 4K videos from a 920 or a Hi-Res Burst Shots from an 52x ... etc
  • how abt just faster app launch and HDR.
  • I'm expecting an Octacore upgrade to my Lumia 520....maybe AT&T keeps it to themselves?
  • What about Data toggle update for L730/830 which already have Denim?
  • Install the Preview for Developers or wait for the next official OS update.
  • Despite having a PureView device (at least it says so on the backplate on my 925) I'm not all that concerned about not getting the camera updates. I don't really care about 4k video. The HDR option would have been nice though but I can live without that. I'm a lot more interested to finally get the native app folders. On the other hand - and slightly off topic - I recall there were mentions of a firmware update that would address the resuming issue on the 925 and some other device? Will that be part of denim or is that still to be announced?
  • Denim for 925 brings the OS update which includes live folders. We've not heard more on the resuming issue... perhaps it is already in this OS update.
  • This grind my gears. Lumia Denim is proving to be confusing, quite a lot. I mean... I bought a Lumia 830 that says it has Denim installed but I can't use Lumia Camera 5.0 because I don't have Lumia Denim installed. This is so confusing that even Windows Central has been struggling to explain to us, users. I even did a hard reset about 2 months ago trying to get the app, but anyway... And I want the Lumia Camera 5 because of the HDR, which is quite useful for some pics I'd like to take. Anyway, I'm waiting for the real Lumia Denim for 830, Brazil variation. I'll wait it before start trying Windows 10.
  • I soul be pissed if I swapped my 920 for an 830. You've been bamboozled and hoodwinked. MS should have mentioned the 830 will have acid washed denim, not stone washed.
  • just wait for a week or two...be patient
    it just needs a little patching to work....
  • Ok I know this might be a stupid question but I have a 920 I have DP my extras+info says "Lumia Denim", I have folders and don't have data toggle. Do I really have Denim or not?
  • I'm not sure MS could answer that. Hopefully when we all get Windows 10 we'll be able to actually tell some how.
  • 'Denim' refers to the 8.1.1 OS update. The data toggle feature was included in a small update which was released after 8.1.1 (think of it as 8.1.1.1).
  • This platform is sinking faster than Titanic. So should we sit and hope that on 21st writing week change touched by the magic wand on windows 10? Give me this bloody Upgrade to 1520 already!!!
  • it's the ONLY platform where EVERY
    WP 8 & WP 8.1 gets the (Microsoft provided) new Windows Mobile 10!
    caveat:
    you need to wait....or personally pay 100 million dollars for overtime (&coffeine) for the poor coders
  • Everyone is talking about 830 ,,, what about 820 .... When 820 will get danim
  • Its rolling out at the moment, officially from today. You will probably receive it within a few weeks. If you are running 'preview for developers' you won't receive an update, as the 'Denim' for the 820 is just the OS 8.1.1 without additional firmware.
  • "However, up until now, not many people can articulate what it is about Denim they are expecting anyway." - Couldn't help yourself could you ;) 
  • That's why my (now) old Lumia 925 showed it was on Denim even though nothing changed -- heck, it doesn't even have the brightness slider and Living Images, both of which came with Cyan. No matter, I am now happy as hell with my 930 :)))
  • Is Lumia 920 is getting Denim Update...?? And will it get Lumia camera 5.0 since it is a PureView device..??
  • Yes, but only as an OS update and without Lumia Camera 5.0.
  • Why it is not getting Lumia Camera 5.0 since it is a PureView device.. And it is the first Windows 8 Phone to feature PureView camera.. So why this injustice to Lumia 920..
  • The ARM CPU will download the new features from Qualcomm's site
    You'll then have a fast Quadcore with UHD....or maybe not...
  • I posted an article on the forums about how I though this was happening a few weeks back. Nice to see that this is the case... http://forums.windowscentral.com/showthread/331201.htm
  • Question: I have a 1520 (RM-938 aka the "unicorn" phone for north america with Qi and LTE on AT&T), and a few weeks ago I received the Lumia Denim update. Or so it says. On the extras+info screen it says Lumia Denim, but I don't have the options for 4k video shooting, "Hey Cortana", etc. Anyone have any ideas regarding this?
  • I have a feeling that the Windows 10 update to Lumia devices, from the 1020 and earlier, including the 920, is likewise going to be 'in name only'. Microsoft will again cite 'old hardware' and 'need to move the platform forward'. Yada, yada.
  • Trolling is forbidden
     
  • dear rubino:   "Lumia Denim may be a bust for some" i think the whole windows phone proposition has been a bust for some, myself included. i'd suggest to people not to keep their expectations high for the upcoming MS event. 
  • Are you really serious with that? I mean you can't just go buy a different device and be happy?
  • am on verizon edge so not that easy. if i quit i have to pay around 300$.....trust me, i will be going to iOS as soon as the whole phone is paid off in a few months.....you folks can continue dreaming and fantasizing .....
  • You can't blame the guy, for the past year Microsoft was only promising or speculating things but never delivered. Did you remember that rumor from a guy that worked at MS who said "Something big is coming from MS" and everybody thought it was McLaren device (which got cancelled). Also MS didn't deliver a new high-end, only low end, MS has a lot of build issues on some phones, especially L930 (purple screen, bad refresh rate, radio noise). Other thing is xbox music app that still sucks and is laggy even on 930. No vibrate and ring, only vibrate then ring. A lot of stuff is missing and MS does literally nothing just promising new OS. It is normal for people to lose their patience. Oh did I mention that they advertise on each frickin' phone the tile of Instangram, even though Instagram is in beta from the very beginning for almost a year? Should I go on?
  • finally there's an article about that!
  • Please help me out here: 1. Denim won't be out for say Lumia 630 then by doing so isn't a normal user without Preview for Developer forced to switch to PfD or else left with older Firmware version ? 2. My 730 has ability to hide navigation bar. My brother owns a 630 and wanted it too. It really helps free up screen estate while watching videos/gaming.
    Now if 630 isn't supposed to get Denim, will it never get the ability to hide navigation bar ?
    Switching to PfD didn't solve this. Is each previous generation of users just guinea pig for MS/Nokia ? I hope to see some light shed on this issue on 21st Jan. Maybe W10 brings in all these goodies bypassing Denim for such devices.
  • 1 - No, If you're a normal user, you will receive Denim (a new OS version, 8.1. Update 1)  
  • Thank you for replying.
    Will 630 get the ability to hide navigation bar ?
  • The 630 will not get the ability to hide the navigation bar with 8.1.1. There is a chance that this functionality will come with gdr2 or W10. App resolutions are handled differently for screens with FWVGA resolution. Some apps will auto hide the nav bar, try playing a video from Microsofts 'Files' app and it will hide.
  • Well, I can hide navigation bar on my 730 and it indeed hides it automatically where relevant as in videos or viewing images.
    My question was whether the functionality will come to 630 and I agree with you on that.
    Looks like W10 will bypass all this drama and bring the features.
    Thank you for your time. :)
  • i dont believe ms when it comes to new features unavailable because of hardware requirements. at first nokia  pro cam was also available only  for 920 and 1020, and they lied it needs 1gig of ram. hdr is already possible with third party apps, and most wp8 phones can shoot fhd movies, so it is only a matter of extracting single frames from it to get "moments" functionality. probably saving images in background needs  more work or can be impossible, but they still can decrease camëra startup delay for physical shutter button. laziness, same as for wp7/8 comaptibility switch( but there changes were in the core of the os)
  • My thoughts are similar.
    When launching 520, 620, 720 etc., did MS know that it'll be bringing Glance Screen in future that it used appropriate screens in all of them but when it came to 930/Icon or 730 they despite users asking for Glance support installed a screen which doesn't support Glance and when questioned they'll just give us a lollipop of 'the hardware doesn't support the feature.'
  • Lollipop?
    Don't even get started...I only wish my phone would get upgrades like the Lumias
    I only wish...  Lumia owners are needy, greedy spoiled babies with rabies
  • Ha ha ha. Very well said. :)
    We here at WP community have always lacked basic functionality and get updates for the same. MS has been playing catching up all this time and now finally seems to have made WP as good as Andorid at least in areas where it matters.
    We get updates for Xbox Music, we get one to bring notification centre (action centre), we get another to enable seek in videos...
    When it comes to firmware updates the story is all about making WP better in basics and rarely about advanced functionality (leaving camera and glance support aside) and thus we at WP community aren't greedy, but only needy who have grown frustrated and demanding over time because we really need those updates to keep on using our mobs smoothly.
    I've faith that with W10 all our probs would be solved.
  • I already know that the Lumia 1020 won't be getting new features with Denim, I just want that MSFT fix the freezing issues that they promised to fix with Denim, also maybe, some algorithm improvements for the camera. That just what I want for know (WM10 I'm watching you!). Regards :D
  • Strange, Lumia 925 with preview shows denim in ex+info, but the freezing issue still exist (same issue on 1020). They wrote that it would be fixed in the next firmware. !!??
  • For me one of the improvements that I hope next week, is a profound change in the system updates not understand why you want to complicate things so much, that the only thing that generates the user is a loss of confidence, frustration. Microsoft announced that the improvement as the L930 and L1520 was quite important, I'm using a L1520 and I am the last in line, I spent an interesting amount of money on my mobile, my firmware is Country Variant Aleman. The only thing clear to me is that this can not continue this way. P.D: Where is denim, someone has seen...  
  • doesn't really matter, i still love my 4.3", so handy, see.. now on my pocket
  • Around 50% of windows users are waiting for 10 more than denim.
    However, I and other 1020 users are not getting any camera enhancement, I am switching to 10.
  • exactly my thoughts about giving the Lumia 1020 something... I don't even care if it doesn't have the fast startup, rich capture, 4k, or hdr but something
  • The huge camera sensor of 1020 doesn't count in hardware. If Nokia still leaded, they would come up with something for all!
  • Other thing is that they wont let you make other camera apps to be launched from the button, proshot is quite faster when compared with Lumia camera and photos are good as well.
  • So, Denim is now just a designation of the OS number, in this case 8.1.1.  Phones that won't need new firmware, but have 8.1.1, show Denim.  My 830 that came with Denim and 8.1.1 (in this case, Denim seems to indicate OS only), but rumors suggest it'll get another Denim update to support Lumia Camera 5.0. What a mess!
  • That's 100% true. The 'Denim' in the 830 is 8.1.1 without the new firmware features. A firmware update will be required for Lumia Camera 5 to function properly.
  • well...the new was more demanding than predicte