Former and current Microsoft staffers talk about why Windows phones failed

Myerson Windows 10 (Image credit: Daniel Rubino / Windows Central)

The downfall of Windows on phones is a tale that has been told and retold by observers, enthusiasts and Microsoft haters time and again.

Though Windows 10 Mobile's demise is undeniable, Microsoft's mobile strategy has arguably always included a transition from a mobile OS on phone hardware to full Windows on context-conforming Pocket PCs. That vision is materializing as Windows Core OS and Microsoft's rumored "Project Andromeda" story unfold.

Had Windows phone succeeded, Microsoft would have likely still pursued the post-smartphone pocket PC vision it's currently pursuing. It's a natural evolution of connected computing and a realization of the company's decades-old goal of bringing full Windows to pocketable hardware.

It's within this context of what could have been and what may yet be, that exiting Windows Chief Terry Myerson and former Developers Relations Head for Windows Phone Brandon Watson have shared their thoughts on why Windows on phone, not Windows on mobile, failed.

Windows 10 Mobile's death may be a good thing

Microsoft staffers on Windows phone's failure

Windows phone and iPhone (Image credit: Windows Central)

Myerson, who's leaving Microsoft and who once led Windows phone efforts, shared his experiences on LinkedIn:

I knew we had so much work to do on our non-touch no-app-store Windows Mobile effort. I was honored, and more than a little terrified. The Windows Phone experience was incredibly challenging.

In response to the challenge, Microsoft innovated in phone user experiences, with Live tiles, social network integration, Hubs, Rooms, and the fluidity of the OS. Still, Myerson said Windows phone failed because:

Early Windows phones were founded on an incomplete Windows CE platform, designed for small embedded systems.
The industry moved forward faster than Microsoft could keep pace.
Android presented an enormous disruption in the business model.

Watson added insufficient OEM and carrier support to that list of reason for failure:

Windows Phone died because it would have been almost impossible to beat Google or Apple without carriers and handset manufacturers embracing it. We got second string devices and almost no support at the carriers. They couldn't keep burning money to please Sisyfus.Windows Phone died because it would have been almost impossible to beat Google or Apple without carriers and handset manufacturers embracing it. We got second string devices and almost no support at the carriers. They couldn't keep burning money to please Sisyfus.— Brandon Watson (@BrandonWatson) March 30, 2018 March 30, 2018

Finally, Joe Belfiore, Windows Division head, suggested the app gap and limited hardware choices are among the causes.

The argument that Microsoft isn't investing in mobile, because it gave up on smartphones, is an erroneous assessment. A mobile device doesn't have to be asmartphone, though a smartphone is a mobile device. This point must be understood before you can grasp how Microsoft's mobile investments and Project Andromeda may address the challenges that contributed to Windows on phone failures.

Incomplete Windows CE foundation

Incomplete Windows CE limited Microsoft's ability to bring the power and versatility of Windows to a mobile form factor.

OneCore unifies Windows across form factors, and Core OS enables a context-sensitive OS that conforms to device types and device states. Microsoft's rumored Project Andromeda's OS will potentially shift between mobile, tablet and desktop modes seamlessly.

From Windows CE to Windows 10 Pocket PCs

Industry moved faster than Microsoft could catch up

Apple and Google had developed carrier, developer, customer and OEM (Android) relationships years before Windows Phone 7 arrived.

As connected computing becomes increasingly demanding and the slate-shaped smartphone market stagnates, Always Connected PCs and subsequent Project Andromeda-inspired OEM devices may be Microsoft's and Qualcomm's preemptive step into the next phase of connected computing.

Why eSIM may be a game changer for Microsoft

Android's disruptive business model and caring for carriers

Though Myerson doesn't identify Android's "disruptive" business model, he may have been referring to the OS as free and customizable for OEM partners.

Microsoft ultimately made Windows free to OEMs on smaller devices. Additionally, Core OS lets OEMs include only the Windows features they want on their devices. Windows 10's breadth of features from inking, gaming, mixed reality and more combined with creative OEM hardware may inspire PC and smartphone makers to embrace Andromeda-inspired devices.

Furthermore, always-connected devices will allow consumers to buy data from the Microsoft Store and switch between carriers almost on the fly. This gives carriers an incentive to carry cellular PCs to make their data and voice packages more competitive.

Why always-connected PCs may give Microsoft the upper hand with carriers

The notorious app gap

Microsoft is collaborating with Google on Progressive Web Apps (PWA) and is treating them as native apps in Windows 10. Simply, put these app-web hybrids will behave as native Universal Windows Platform (UWP) apps.

Using a web crawler, Microsoft has begun to slowly populate the Microsoft Store by merely pulling PWAs into the Store PWAs. Furthermore, PWAs are easier to build, maintain and are cross-platform.

Progressive Web Apps (PWA) - the great equalizer for Microsoft, Apple and Google

No guarantees but it's a plan

Microsoft appears to have a mobile plan that addresses the issues that doomed Windows on phone. No one knows how this will play out, but past failures don't dictate future outcomes.

See HP Elite x3 and Dock $299 at Microsoft Store (opens in new tab)

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

201 Comments

In the "Rick and Morty" episode "Big Trouble in Little Sanchez", there's a scene where Morty is telling Summer to "get her S#!t together". Replace Summer with "Microsoft", and it's what pops into my head everytime there's a story about Windows Mobile failing. It was a good product, that needed a few little changes, and it could have been great. They just never "got their s#!t together."
what were those "few little changes"?
Perhaps "few" was understating on my part. One of my main gripes was that they tried to say developers weren't supporting the platform. But MS as a developer themselves neglecting their own apps on their own ecosystem was a big one for me. Other than Cortana, there wasn't a single MS app that wasn't better on Android and Apple, IMO. Facebook was a good example of a developer that didn't properly support them either. The app crashed constantly on my L950, and became worse with the "new" app they released about a year ago. They also said that they were enterprise focused. But to use certain business apps, if your company didn't use Azure, you couldn't use it. I had to carry my old S5A at the same time as my L950, because Blackberry couldn't run on it since my company doesn't use Azure services. But my Android and other people's Apple devices work fine. And advertising was lacking severely. Part of that could be tied to carrier support, yes. But do you have any idea how many times I heard, "Windows makes a phone?" as recently as a year ago? Too many. Apple and Google didn't do anything that Microsoft shouldn't have been able to replicate. They just didn't get their s#!t together, because it was never their focus. And it will hurt them in the long run because Google and Apple have everyone else's focus.
Everything you mentioned was an issue with W10M. It was already over at that point. Those issues were just the result of Microsoft having given up. They needed to be competitive with the launch of WP7 as they were already late to the market. It was over when WP7 failed. That set the bar way too high for WP8 to ever have a chance.
The Blackberry email thing was the only item I listed that was W10M only. Everything else goes back to the beginning, along with a myriad of other little things. My point was that nothing they were failing at was insurmountable, given the proper resources and attention.
"My point was that nothing they were failing at was insurmountable, given the proper resources and attention." Even if the problems were not insurmountable, what was the payback? I would imagine that Microsoft looked at all that. If the costs are higher than the gains, they're better off not doing it. I know how it feels. For us as MS/WP/W10M/whatever fans, it is easy for us to look at the situation and say "Microsoft has virtually unlimited resources. Why don't they just make it happen?" (For the record, I'm less of a Microsoft mobile fan now than I was at one time. But I'm a huge Microsoft fan! I make a living from their products.) Microsoft could certainly have done more. But, they evidently felt that it would have been unprofitable. Don't forget that the goal of every business in existence is to make a profit!
The payoff is long-term continued relevance. Complete the ecosystem and keep people from going to Google and Apple. Chrome keeps improving, and they need to remember that nobody is too big to fail.
Agreed
I don't understand why today we cant have a quality made and supported MS device, aimed at the corporate world but also supplying those of us that want a quality WM niche product.
Because even the corporate world ignores them for iPhone. Windows phones never penetrated enterprise.
WP7 came at a time when Microsoft didn't create many apps for Android. Android still had an app gap at that time. That was a W10M issue. Microsoft, Nokia and even Samsung advertised and marketed WP7. Microsoft especially spent a ton of money on ads. They were on TV constantly. They stopped marketing after WP8. Carrier support was an issue for WP7, although the devices were actually available from carriers at that time. Microsoft was openly hostile to carriers, not allowing them to modify the software, allowing their apps to be deleted and working around their software update requirements. No wonder carriers didn't give them much time.
... which are precisely the issues that have contributed to making Android the mess that it is today.
You can call it a mess but Android continues to outsells Windows machines 5 to 1. Obviously they are doing something very right.
Yes. And professional wrestling sells 100 times more tickets than PGA golf. Does that mean professional wrestling is better than PGA golf?
So Android is WWE, iPhone is Box and Windows Phone was authentic Greco Roman wrestling in Greece... No wonder nobody understood the APIs...
So you are saying they should have let the carriers load up shiet into users phones and make it un-removable so people get spam and bloatware ? and how did that go with android : ) . .. oreo b i t c h its released yet still not many even have it even on supported devices that were said to get it as an update... , Microsoft did the smart thing on that, no carrier should have the right to force its users to use applications they don't want to have, the user is paying for a product that they want to have in a state that does not harm their freedom to use it as it is supposed to be; the original product provided by its manufacturer, that is. oh and btw apple doesn't allow carriers to preload apps into their iphone either ; did that affect where they stand now ? , not really. because its the best way to keep the system safe and optimized, included that this keeps the carriers from getting in the darn way of phones receiving proper updates; windows phones updates when released maybe delayed by a day or so and that's how slow it is " just a day or two " but look at android updates; you have to wait months for a released system update to be released for your device, worse part is that based on the carrier you may never get it : ) . . . if you wanna enjoy that hell hole, you should go with that but i'm quite sure that my WM10 phone received a set of updates yesterday as well "just a day late" after the announced patch fixes etc
Yes. Carriers held the keys and Microsoft had to play nice or get ignored. They chose the later. iPhone was way too big for carriers to ignore. Do you really need to ask that? It is obvious. Your W10M updates are laughable. There hadn't been a worthwhile one for years now. AU was the last W10M update. Updates don't matter on Android. The important stuff, app compatibility, is updated in the background of every Android phone regularly without carrier or manufacturer involvement. That is why a 2011 Android phone still is compatible with new apps and a 2011 WP hasn't been compatible with new apps for 5 years now. WP is the real hell hole.
It's often forgotten that Android had an app gap back in the day. I actually went with a WP7 device way back when because Netflix was available on WP7, but not on Android. How the tables turned.
And the gap gap wasnt just abt carriers or developers but abt the incomplete and half baked apis that ms gave to the devs. There was immense interest abt wp7 and 7.5 in the dev community. Afterall who could ignore an OS of The OS giant. But many devs waited till MS had compete apis which didnt happen until 8.1 but till then it was already clear that market share wasn't gng anywhere.
No, it wasn't over at W10M release. Google pays Apple 1 billion a year just to be default search engine. Not to say that even Microsoft pays Google and Apple 20% fee for the subscriptions and services sold through the Store. And at the end of the day Store had some revenue that was never calculated as Windows Phone revenue. So yes even at that point with all the losses they made on selling phones, Microsoft was positive overall and it had a positive growing trend. Just as zr2s10 said They just never "got their s#!t together."
That just isn't true. You think you know the numbers better than Microsoft?
It was over when WP7 turned out to be a beta test, and Microsoft left everybody hanging with WP8... that killed any ounce of confidence on the platform.
You said it, brother. Upvote.
By little changes he means: 1) Switch to Linux Kernel
2) Dump C# in favor of Java/Kotlin/Swift.
3) Drop the Windows name for an OS that basically has no Windows
4) Give it off for free.
5) Back it up with great applications
6) Let the community drive it
7) Leverage the services, not the OS
8) Support every SoC available and every feature available. Basically turn Windows Mobile 10 into Android Peppermint Patties.
LOL "few little changes."
The strange thing is with their strategy is the following. When a customer comes for hardware, they have everything the customer needs. But when it comes to the mobile part, they say, "f*ck off and go to a different platform". That one smart way to keep your customer connected to your platform. I was at a ms summit last week and even the ms employers made fun of windows phone/mobile/uwp. All the presentations were done on iphones. They clearly have given up. Satya only cares for azure. Burn the rest.
"I was at a ms summit last week and even the ms employers made fun of windows phone/mobile/uwp. All the presentations were done on iphones." Wow, that is one sad visual.
Presentations on iPhones, or MS employees making fun of the crappy "Universal" "Windows" "Platform" aka Metro, aka the Platform that sounded like an Underground Train that runs in circles or back and forth?
I know these "little changes" - MS SHOULD GIVE US FULL SOURCESS OF WINDOWS MOBILE! And we''ll make these changes. :)
No man... then people would notice the awful comments in the code: #ported from Silverlight will change it ASAP 2-10-08 # this API needs to be refactored after the refactoring will not work in production # need to place an IF here else Tiles will cycle as maniacs, will do that after next version 11-3-09 # this breaks Samsung phones... Steve told us to put it here until they drop Android.
Few? I think it's a failure from the start. We just need full Windows to run on ARM. Not a not-Windows calling itself Windows. It's a different system with no synergy, came in late with 0 users base.
I LOVE my 950XL Dual SIM!! And as a hedge for just when the Windows 10 Tablet with telephony that fits in my pocket, I have a brand new backup waiting in my office should this one fail. I cannot see why an Andromeda device will also not come in pocket size. How much of a leap can it be to go from 8" to 5.5"?
Also, I am a large corp guy, where Azure is not an issue.
That’s just pure fantasy thinking. MS was late the the party just like Zune was with MP3 players. Android had already become the “windows” of smartphones and the War was already won.
Call these new Andromeda mobile devices whatever you want but I'm hoping there is at least some option / form factor that one can use it as a daily driver (phone). I really don't want to buy an Android or iPhone once my still trusty Lumia Icon finally dies. I don't need all the apps (obviously) and like the idea / concept of PWA's.
After our Windows phones began to fail we opted for the Note 8. Wonderful phones and love the S-Pen options. The apps were great at first but the novelty soon wears off. My wife hates the advertisements that pop up from time to time if you for get to purchase or subscribe to the application. We are both looking forward to going back to a windows based devices when the opportunity arises.
I have the Note 8 and once I saw the Elite X3 go on sale for Verizon, I jumped on it. Once the new car smell faded, I wanted to go back and having an app for that one time isn't enough for me. A lot of the apps I used either had great 3rd party dev support, their mobile website finally caught up rendering having an app almost pointless, or I just used Microsoft's built-in apps.
I too am waiting patiently for "Andromeda" on mobile, as the 950s and 950XLs that my employees and family use are getting old, and we do not want to downgrade to another platform, we need an upgrade path with Windows.
A Nokia 930 is my daily drive, I love it.
I setup my fathers new android phone for him yesterday, what a god awful UI
Brads Sams floated out an idea that it will run android as a folded/phone mode then WOA on tablet/notepad form. Not sure how or if they will do that but certainly will make it a legit smartphone replacement.
Only so long as people can uninstall Android if they wish. Having to buy apps twice for the one device is clearly not going to be popular, so they do need to add an option to wipe Android.
yeah right .. like that's gonna work with the legal terms and all : ) ..troll much ? , included that android usage battery life is gonna turn that device into a oven; or does everyone forget how ram hungry android is, you can dual boot two systems that is for sure but having to install the same app twice in each device for the sake of convenience? nah fast pass on wasting storage just to have some nonsense like this.. if you want android get a android device, don't ruin what WOA is going to be, it already has 32bit support and 64 bit is on the way, included that emulation optimization is just working its way up, things will improve overtime, and android system is a mess as well a fragmentation itself; anyone who has a clear awareness of the system knows this.
WoA is already dead. The initial devices are a joke. Did you notice Windows Central is ignoring them they are so bad? They didn't even do a first impressions article. Within a year Microsoft will rebrand and pivot with some new angle while WoA will be left to rot as the RT 2.0 it is.
Already looking bad, Microsoft is starting to backtrack the same day I say this! https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-distances-their-always-connected-pc-in...
I'm a still on my Lumia ICON and agree completely.
I talked to a tech at my local MS store and while he told me a pocket format isn't planned, his eyes told me otherwise. If Win10 for ARM is the plan, why not a slightly smaller device the size of the 950XL?
Now for the CEO to leave...
LOL, because Windows Phone failed? I think Microsoft is more then a phone business
because they allowed it to fail
That CEO already left.
Agree, fish become rotten from the head.
They fail, because MS is not build for the consumer market. They kill everything that is consumer related. It won't be long before Xbox is killed. They just don't have it in them. They even kill their own apps. Just for the fun of it.
Even the apps on android are lacking. And they have the highest priority.
To this day, I still do not use the Outlook app on android because they gimped it up so bad. Not integrating contacts, not being able to edit contacts, notification email problems and so many others that I don't remember. I would hope that they have them fixed now. At the time I seriously considered switching my email to google, but I bought and used Nine Email, which was everything Outlook was not and worked. You would think that something as important as and Outlook App would have been a priority on Android, but it languished for over a year missing essential features. They don't seem to care that you have to give people a reason to use your software and if it is missing essential features, ones that work on everyone elses software, then people won't use it.
MS has surprised me (and by surprised I mean disappointed) before, but I just don't see them killing off XBOX. It has gotten to be a money maker for them. But, if I remember correctly it was not in the early days. They stuck with it and now look at it. This is what I wish they would have done with their phones. Stick with it and market the crap out of them.
MS is going to have to spend a boatload of money on quality advertising to change the common understanding that mobile = phone to mobile = Andromeda. The word "mobile" goes hand in hand with "phone" now days. I'm skeptical, but hope they can pull it off.
I'm sceptical as well, since most people will probably associate Andromeda with something related to work, such as an old BlackBerry or PDA such as a Palm Pilot, rather than as a cutting-edge consumer device. Mobile apps for iOS and Android are associated with consumption, and the typical consumer wants consumption rather than production from his/her mobile device. Use of the mobile device for work is an afterthought these days.
"Mobile apps for iOS and Android are associated with consumption, and the typical consumer wants consumption rather than production from his/her mobile device. Use of the mobile device for work is an afterthought these days." Exactly...If I want to browse Twitter/Facebook/Instagram/etc. or lookup something really quick on the web, I'll use my phone (now iPhone, was Lumia 920/925/1520). But, if I need to get any real work done, I pull out my Surface Book 2 (was Surface Pro 4). If I want to be super mobile in the house or in a vehicle (riding, not driving), I'll use my iPad Pro to watch a movie or read a book. Point being, if it involves consumption, I'm on iOS; development or other types of office production, Surface.
I don't think they will. I don't think this potential device is the unicorn that the commenters here believe it will be. Temper expectations. The market for $1000+ folding tablets doesn't really exist & while there may be some additional functionality, the average user just won't need it. I don't think you'll see a marketing blitz.
All on Microsoft. Failing to support current hardware at the time. Failing to provide developers with competitive API's. Failing to treat. recognize and promote the platform as part of Microsoft. Failing to provide users with viable ways to stay on the platform through their numerous reboots. None of these guys did anything but pay lip service to supporting the platform. How many times did we discover they were using either iPhones or android devices rather than their own platform? How many times were ios and android given preferential treatment? Now they try and blame others? Typical.
I agree, WP 7.X and 8.X were good or great products. It wasn't quality/UX/Windows CE that let them down. It was a lack of marketing and, I believe, negative association with the Microsoft brand (work/Excel, snooze) that caused mainstream rejection of the OS. Same for Zune, same for Band. Good products, but no marketing to overcome brand apathy and generate word of mouth. (Band worked fine on WP8). If you feel that you have to write multiple articles to articulate the difference between Windows 10 Mobile and Windows 10 ON Mobile, here, to this audience, then good luck to MS when they try to explain it in a snappy TV ad for Andromeda.
Or "It's not a phone, you idiot, it's a mobile device with a SIM that allows you to make and receive calls while on the go"
You just reminded me of those Helio commercials. "Don't call it a phone or Grandpa will have a stroke!"
I don't think it will be as big of a challenge as you think. I'm finding that the number of people who even know about Windows 10 Mobile is incredibly small. When I mention that my phone runs Windows 10 Mobile, a surprising high number of people will say "There's Windows on phone???" It very much reminds me of Ben Stiller in Zoolander saying to himself "The files are in the computer???" But it will be a challenge to explain how Andromeda isn't just another phone. With iOS and Android, the "phone" portion of the device is such a small part of the picture anymore. With CShell, it's probably going to look like a mobile OS. I'm hoping Microsoft sells it as a tablet/mobile computer, show inking, etc. Make it look like the Surface Mini that never came to be. Then just close out the pitch with it receiving a call. That's the type of framing they'll need to separate it from the pack. I'm not an advertising expert, but that would be my 2 cents.
It's sad that such a great forward thinking OS wasn't given more of a chance to survive. I really like W10M on my Idol 4S & 735. Both work great for me.
If MS can launch something better, great. But they could have kept Windows Phone alive until such time comes.
For them to ignore their mobile platform seems like a bad decision for many reasons. I get the fact that they want their stuff on droid & IOS.....but I'm not going to download a Microsoft account on one.
I hope that whatever they launch (if anything) is very successful and works on cdma!
Just got updated atm build 15254.369
An April released i think.
I agree with Brandon's assessment that they needed carriers to not just carry the devices, but support them. I did a little experiment in the days of WP7. I went to numerous carrier stores and asked about phones. Every time I even mentioned Windows Phone 7, the store clerk acted somewhere between like I just stepped on their foot and like I just insulted his/her mother. I was always strongly steered away from that idea by the clerk and often told flat out lies about the platform. Unless you went in dead set on getting WP7, you weren't walking out with WP7. It was like their pay was docked if a customer bought WP7. Thankfully, we're starting to see a shift away from carrier dependence for obtaining a phone. In the US at least, subsidies for phones are almost completely gone. More and more people are just ordering their phone online or going to a store besides the carriers'. So this new go by Microsoft, combined with PWAs could have a chance. Or I could just be an overly optimistic fan.
Microsoft didn't do enough to entice carriers. They were actually hostile to carriers so it isn't any surprise that carriers didn't put much effort into the platform.
The answer to this seems obvious: sideline the carriers. eSIM should hopefully help in this regard.
Carriers still have to support it and consumers will need a way to pay for it. Great idea if Microsoft can get carriers behind it an they have a finance option.
The carrier problem was easily solved. Just stop selling the devices in the US and focus on the rest of the world, where carriers still compete and there is no need to win them over. No problem with Windows phone carrier support and promotion in most places. Once the phones were at the right market level in other countries, only then allow US carriers to stock them. At that point, they would either be keen as they could see the profit or they just want to play the monopoly game, in which case leave them to it. It's not hard to work it out.
As a US citizen, I would rather Microsoft, a U.S. based company, cater to the U.S. prior to making any other country happy. If they stopped doing that for mobile, they would stop doing that for everything and I wouldn't want to see that happen. I rather have the best Microsoft has to offer and ignore what the rest of the world has to deal with. U.S. interests should always come first.
As a non US Citizen, The world is WAY bigger than the US. And there are many people who want windows on phone...
Lol I don't know if you meant it but that sounds like you feel your superior because you're an US citizen. Personally I don't care if a company brings their product first to an other country, and I don't understand why this would be that important.
I don't think so. It's only logical. Shouldn't an American who started a company in the US serve his own people first ? Be for real now. Has nothing to do with anyone being superior.
And yet, had they focused outside the US, especially in markets that were already embracing WP, they might have actually taken even more ground from their competitors. But they didn't, they focused on markets they had already lost, worst decision they made.
But the US was not interested. They want iPhones. I don't see your point WSLUser, surely following US popular opinion and not selling them Windows phones was what US customers wanted?
Sales were similar to Europe, you are just confused by percentages.
But the US consumers are clearly not interested in MS products. Wishing it were otherwise is what's killing MS's consumer efforts off.
No US, no chance. Developers are US centric. You need the US first.
US developers are US centric. I don't think that translates well to non-US developers.
Exactly what I witnessed. So strange that new Nokia flagship phones where stuck in a back corner and staff would always want to steer you to Android devices or the iPhone rack.
I completely agree, carriers were hostile to Windows phones. The Verizon store associates were the worst to deal with regarding Windows phones, ATT wasn't that much better with salespeople completely unfamiliar and disinterested in the platform. I bought my last two Windows phones directly from the Microsoft store because of this reason. I recently wrote in another forum that after 4 solid years of use, the battery on my Nokia Icon finally started to fail and I opted to purchase the HP Elite x3. A few days after my purchase the Microsoft store associate who initially helped me, called to let me know the phone was on sale last week and to come in for my refund. I too am an optimistic fan and hope that the PWAs could revive Windows phones. I'm holding on to mine as long as it works.
The failure of WM is because of Nutella, after buying Nokia he destroyed the mobile division by releasing the Nokia staff who were the most consumer aware side which was the reason why mobile sales were growing at that time.
Except it wasn't growing. It had already peaked and was shrinking at that time. The slight growth driven by the L520 wasn't sustained. The LX30 devices all flopped.
It was growing, slow in the US, but growing, to around the 6% mark at the peak. Some countries were in the double digits. Then they announced there were cut the Nokia handset division they absorbed and said there were no more flagships on the horizon. Things went downhill from there.
They peaked at ~3.5% (10.5 million devices) after the L520 was released. Numbers dropped following that quarter and never recovered. Those sales were due to the Nokia name and low price. Seemed like word of mouth from the WP experience killed future sales. Microsoft hoped the opposite would happen, but the L520 didn't drive growth.
It was due to having no flagship on sale outside the US. I watched it happen. They took so long to get the L930 out the door people had moved on.
They flopped because the 930 was so delayed they were just unavailable to everyone. Mainly because the barmies at MS thought it amusing to sell them only in the US where none of their customers were. Surprise, refuse to sell something to your customers and the sales figures will suffer. It says a lot about MS when they can't see that one coming.
Europe wasn't buying high end phones. The 530, 630, 730, and 830 would have been the drivers, not the 930. They needed the US. Developers are US centric and so are the high end, profitable, phone sales. Getting the 930 (Icon) exclusive on the biggest carrier in the US was the chance they needed to drive numbers in the US.
I don't know if Europeans were buying high end phones back than, but I know they (atleast in the North-West) definitely do now. So many Iphones here lol and children also having good smartphones.
They weren't buying high end Windows phones for sure. You can look up the numbers for each device. It was all L520s.
Not in the UK. Loads of people here buy high end phones. Not the L930 though as it took way too long for MS to pull their finger out and release the thing.
Big plans are good, but the devil is in the details. How MSFT supposed to pull that off if they can't make a decent touch keyboard or a music player?
Maybe they should start by taking their dagger out of our backs, and say sorry?
I loved the Zune player when it was around. I still have that old Windows phone with the sliding keyboard in a box packed away somewhere.
What is missed in this mobile but not phone strategy is that they have all but abandoned the consumer market. Their Pocket PC (and we know how that went down the first time) is business oriented. They aren't in the equation of most consumers. Their services (Cortana, Bing, Groove music, Outlook email client, etc) aren't on the radar for most consumers on the mobile front. So, when they lost the phone, they lost all interest in aggressively pursuing these services. Sure, they're available (those that live) on iOS and Android, but few use them. As a long-time windows phone user, I tried, but they're either slow (Cortana) or not baked in (Bing) and I actually know about them, liked them and am currently absolutely uninterested. So, MS may have a niche market on the business side for the mobile vision, but the rest of us have moved on. It would require something incredibly compelling to ever come back.
The reason that it failed is simple. They dropped the ball, and didn't give a ****. Period.
Microsoft will pay(in the long run) for not sticking with W10 Mobile...their reputation and trust from consumers is gone...everyone hates Microsoft for what they did to their Mobile OS(at least the people that were using it,,me of course)...have been a fan since the beginning...but after so many lies and lack of communication with consumers who embraced the OS...it failed....people will only take this kind of abuse for a while until they say "enough"....when it was here(W10 Mobile)...was the best out there...its to bad Microsoft didn't see it that way and offer full support behind it....it always comes down to money and profit for companies....customers dont mean anything anymore....as I said above...they will pay for their mistakes at some point...Android and IPhone are full speed ahead and making lots of money...they have full support of the people(customers) now...something I dont think Microsoft can ever get back no matter what they make in the future...you loose trust with people...they wont come back that easily...good luck to you in the future Microsoft...you will need it...
For me, they are missing the BIGGEST POINT! If they make the best super-duper groundbreaking handheld PC with all the apps in the world. They still would fail at this point. Because they have stabbed the fans in the back and newer amend that. They have lost their respect. Only a handful are left as fans. Sorry to say this. But I was a huge fan. Everyone knew I loved Microsoft, and only used their gear. But now I am searching for something else on every level. That is difficult because Windows/MAC has the best DAWs. Linux doesn't have that unfortunately. But I am still looking…
You can run Linux on Windows through WSL. Love it or hate it but Windows 10 is the OS everyone will go to on their desktops/laptops/tablets.
Tablets? Hasn't happened yet.
From their comments, they still have no idea why it fails. Wince is very powerful, WM6 can do everything at that time and even it still can do more than android. It just needs to be improved and polished and make more touch friendly.
Don't care about the "mobile" part but PWAs are an awesome idea! Looking forward to running Android apps on my Win 10 computer "natively". Next up, Apple apps, and portability of Linux apps. This is the future of Windows: Becoming a cross-platform development OS capable of running everything invented under the sun. Can you smell the money Microsoft will get yet?
PWA aren't Android or iOS apps. They are just fancy websites, they will still be inferior to the native apps on Android and iOS. PWA certainly won't be a differentiator for Windows.
I am pretty sure that the issue IS NOT related to the top manager. Just check general overall Microsoft attitude: Every time when something "not reasonable" to us we will drop it and, a s a result, all users... Several examples (need your knowledge): Windows Phone 7, Nokia 1020 Windows 10 update issue, VoLTE support, HP Elite x3, Remote Desktop headphone issue and etc. I understand what the reason of every company business, but it's really shame and ib case when iOS and Android around Microsoft "Relax managers" will get good answer.
So I think this manager have not very influence to this question, seems someone other people who does not know enough about IT, but good know money and only money.. Just check how many fans of Windows Phone 10 and try to check how many apps gap to you?.. So why it's still not popular... Just ask someone who still in Microsoft...
If the industry moved faster than Microsoft could keep up, they certainly have not made any changes that would show they are now able to keep up. Granted, there are a lot of steps in releasing products and developing applications but while other companies seem to appease their crowds, Microsoft only seems to surprise people every now and then. The notion is everyone expects their ventures to fail but it's okay if one or two make it like the Xbox and Surface line. Given things are moving into the Smart Home sector rapidly, again, Microsoft has not made many strides to keep pace so having a mobile PC will be a longshot.
Ahh, the postmortem that won't die...
Because WM never dies.
Quote "The industry moved forward faster than Microsoft could keep pace." Translation: Microsoft has lost it's edge and had become a stodgy, internal politics driven company (for a long time now) who has allowed its best talent to leave and go to the companies that are now eating its lunch.
I'm surprised they didn't buy Vegas from Sony (Magix purchased it). Could have been a nice product to have for showcasing the Surface Pro/Book/Studio (Vegas, Sound Forge, ACID). I really think they need to get out of this crapware market and develop some real solutions that people can use for real work in markets outside of Office. Make Acquisitions in those areas, IMO. This is something Apple does with Logic and Final Cut, and it works well for their customers. It would be nice to have a comparable end-to-end solution from Microsoft. Then again, they probably would have made it a subscription, so it's probably better (for my Wallet) that Magix got it.
Chill out on the italics, bro.
Lack of developer support, carrier support, OEM support. All these are not the reason, these are the end result. The reason behind developer support is because Microsoft reboots too often, and each time they reboots, the old one is thrown under the bus. They do things like a engineer instead of a consumer facing company. They will stop developing something entirely once they have something better coming alone. But they don't realize that consumer product should work well all the time. Consumers are not like geeks and developers, they are not ok with crap software that are going to be updated in the future. They don't want big features or your futuristic concepts. They just want it to work well and look good. Microsoft took a very long time to even add notification center to the OS, and even then, it does not work well. Rotation lock, ability to have background process, "now loading..." hell, waste of screen space on the pivot bar, no background image. There are just too many problem with the platform. The OS has a lot of "cool" features, but consumers want none of that. Developers need real APIs to make their app feature parity to the other platforms, and Microsoft fails to deliver it. Carrier support. Seriously, if you have some good looking and powerful and functional device like the Surface family, carriers will be happy to support you. When your best device is some plastic device with year old SoC and a premium price tag, it is hard to sell. When they show case your device, customer come by and only see a one-color device with a UI that has the same solid color block. They don't even understand that they are looking at a phone. If you want to sell your phone to normal people, it's gotta look good and has real premium hardware. And the price cannot be like a iPhone because you are not leading the market, you are playing catch up here. OEM support. This is like PCs. Before Microsoft made Surface, what does the PC OEM market look like? There are all crap. Dell, Lenovo, HP, Asus, Acer are all crap. They use 1366*768 screen, use very very bad trackpad from different providers. The driver situation is like a hell. And nobody use SSDs and premium materials. Because, OEMs are dumb. They need examples to follow(copy). Windows Phone never had good OEM support because there was no first party device. And even some one build a premium device with aluminum or glass, WP won't look half good on it because it only show one color at the time(and one shape, which is square)! No OEM will want to support Microsoft because you are not leading them. They don't know if they can make money from WP. And you don't show them a successful story. They don't know how to make a device for the OS, neither does Microsoft...... Terry blame that they had to use CE kernel to act fast. And they had to change because CE is not advanced enough. He never understood, even til the day he left, that consumer product does not need to be advanced. Making it fit to future road map is not the best way to make money. Making it the same OS as desktop does not really affect the people on the street who are real consumers. You just need to hold on to one thing, and commit, and make it better. If you truly believe it is perfect, then people will love it. Stop thinking like a geek, stop thinking like a engineer, think like a product manager, think like a everage Joe.
I think this is the best, realistic explanation. Unfortunately MS is too full of idiots to have realized this.
They always blame the others but never look in their infested garden.
This is almost exactly what Balmer blames it on. He said they should have made first party devices from the start.
I arrived late to Windows phones because I didn't even knw they existed. Never saw them advertised. I think Windows phone OS is my favorite. Did not care for my iPhone 4 because of no sim or removable battery made it quickly useless. Android phone is a bit ho hum and constant app updates are annoying. I honestly think most apps are so much fluff which to me seem like nothing more than shortcuts to the internet. Mt favorite phone still is my Lumia 1520 and I still use my 640 XL for Note and To-Do. Bought an LG Android for basic smartphone use and use Microsoft Launcher and apps to ease the loss from what I thought was a far superior Windows phone interface. So be it,
Not insignificantly apart from the app gap and US carrier relations, I think there is substantial desire for a 3rd way, even among consumers. A run across many who are tired of the Apple tax, suspicious of Google, and just put off by device abandonment by Android OEMs.
"I think there is substantial desire for a 3rd way". History says otherwise. There were around 110 million total Windows phones sold, over the lifetime of the product. About 6 years. Apple sells that many phones in 6 months (40-70 million per quarter). Android sells that many in less than 2 months.
Just because a viable 3rd way doesn't currently exist doesn't mean the desire isn't there. Would market share stay exactly the same if two decent airlines served your city and then a third one launched?
After that third airline failed for 6 straight years, yes. The market spoke. They may want a third option, but WP wasn't it.
Not sure what new information content there was in your latest comment, I already said a viable 3rd way doesn't currently exist. There is effectively a duopoly at present and this fundamentally means a lot of people's needs are not being fully met - the same way as if you only had a choice of one or two airlines/telcos/lunch places. It may be hard to get a 3rd option off the ground, but people would welcome it.
Windows Phone failed because:
1) They had no previous "cool" factor with the general public, and were primarily known only for PCs, and not always good ones at that. And even if they were good, they weren't necessarily fun or cool. Please note the "I'm a Mac and I'm a PC" commercials, and them just coming off the debacle that was Vista.
2) They failed (as they always do) to EFFECTIVELY market to the public the benefits and unique features of Windows Phone. Particularly how it interfaced with the Windows PCs that many in their potential market pool already owned and/or used at work. They should have done FAR more on that front, particularly given point #1, and that they were late to the modern smartphone party and needed to lure consumer heads out of the figurative butts of Android and iPhone. Three and four years after Windows Phone hit the market, it was quite common for me to talk to people who didn't even know Microsoft/Windows MADE a phone, much less had about a dozen different models on the market. Had the CONSUMERS been more aware of the platform and learned of it's features and benefits, everything would have fallen in place.
Consumer demand would have:
1) driven developers to develop for the platform, thus fixing the app gap.
2) kept the AT&T and Verizon stores from putting the product and related marketing materials in the back corners of their stores. .
3) probably gotten some fans on board who WORKED at those stores and guided the public on which product to buy. Several times I literally saw customers in an AT&T store ask about Windows Phone, and the salesperson almost IMMEDIATELY said, "No, you don't want that. What you really need is an iPhone" and then steered them to that part of the store. As with most things marketed to the public, if you fail to effectively market and teach your potential customer base, you'll fall flat. I work in an industry that deals with that regularly, where the manufacturers historically spend a lot of time and money advertising and marketing to industry insiders who already know all about their products, but fail miserably at marketing and advertising to the general public who would then drive market trends. Only in the last two years have they realized that mistake and begun investing in places that the average consumer bothers to shop at or in publications they already read. Singing to the choir won't cut it.
One small, but important addition to above: Let's say it straight, MOBILE IS JUST HYPE. Today there is nothing what can convince me to spend $1000 on "finger touching toy". No software!
All I need is perfect phonebook + event calendar - these things was in every phone, but done bad way. Smartphones changed nothing - same sht, but with finger.
And last but not least, BATTERY. Nobody need piece of sht, which lasts... ONE DAY, CARL! It's ridiculous. One month of regular use - that's the minimum, after which phone become REALLY USEFUL EVERY DAY HELPER. If phone can fail at any minute, I just cannot put there important info.
Mobile is just hype? Billions of people would disagree with you. This might be the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen here. And as you can imagine, that’s up against some pretty stiff competition.
Jason, I get it. I believe in it. I've drunk the Koolaid and I like it! A full version of Windows OS on a foldable, pocketable, 2 in 1 form factor with LTE and GPS is super cool! That is, IF it exists. Always connected devices? Cool! eSim? Loving it! The major hurdle MS will have to overcome though, and it's a REALLY HUGE one is the people factor. They have just burned so many developers in the process of this Reboot. Once you burn someone its hard to win them back. PWA will solve some of the app gap, but they're going to need developers too, and they're going to need to work overtime on earning back dev trust.
It failed because you didn't stick to your guns. It's failed because you kept changing. It failed because you didn't look at the long term. At it especially failed ft you dumped baldmer for Nadulla.
Baldmer :)))) gygygy
But I agree, "Indian dancers" are not players, just "imitation of programmers". I try to be not racist, but nowadays we have TOO MUCH "so called developers" from India who past 2 weeks course and today they already design software!
Not only in programming. Every IT related stuff is being fcked up by them. There is nothing racist saying the truth.
This is a very racist observation.
I still think W10 on ARM isn't the best choice. If you want ARM devices with Windows, just properly develop your mobile OS to have most of what the PC OS has(wait, they killed that one), or trim down all the old code from the PC OS and make it modular, so it'll run fast even on any hardware
Actually I think its the best thing that happened to mobile carriers, to be honest I didn't use my data plan for my phone, I used it for my Windows netbook to tether the Internet connection to get Internet access.
Windows 10 on ARM will be a success, but at same time I have hopes that Mobile carriers also offer standalone great LTE USB type C modems that can be used on Windows Intel based devices like my ASUS 2 in 1.
How about ATT and Rogers didn't even carry a 8.1 flagship phone similar to the ICON/930. I don't think Windows 10 Mobile was as stable or efficient.
With all due respect, but I think the 'Incomplete Windows CE foundation' excuse is nothing but BS. Windows Mobile was one of the most 'feature-rich' mobile OS of its time, featuring things like VPN, Copy-Paste, Background tasks, tons of customization et al. Going back to 2009, the mighty HTC HD2 running WM6.5 had a lot more features and ran more smoothly than any device running Android. So no, the Windows CE foundation wasn't the motive of Windows Phone fiasco...
My HTC HD2 dual booted WM 6.5 and android.
WinMo also had native Network File Sharing, native Remote Desktop and a real Office suite. If the HD2 had been available on Verizon and AT&T, who knows? But it was on T-Mobile during a time they really sucked.
Step 1: Combine all Microsoft's failed products into one device.
Step 2: ??????
Step 3: Profit.
So how did Google propel Android from nowhere past Microsoft in mobile? That's the real question? Couldn't keep up? Asleep at the wheel? Bad decisions and bad business practices came home to roost.
As a consumer, which device would you give up last : your mobile phone, tablet or PC? Right. Thought so. Therefore this article suggesting that Microsoft has a bright mobile future has about the same level of credibility as the Second Coming. In this area Microsoft has been proved to be a false prophet too often and for too long
Exactly correct. Even worse, most consumers no longer even HAVE a Windows PC. A phone and a tablet are all that is needed. Here is a stat that illustrates the "bright future" that Windows has. When you add up all of the personal computing devices being sold today - phones, tablets and PCs - Windows is powering about 15% of them. Worse, of that 15%, NONE of them are mobile devices. Think about that. 10 years ago, Windows was around 95%. Macs made up the rest. Today, Windows is a tiny minority of all devices sold. And still dropping. The idea that some Windows tablet/always connected pc/pocketable telephony device/now with e-sim! is going to change all of this is laughable, sad and pathetic all at the same time.
Haven't you got used to fanboys dreaming? In the past 2 years, all kind of delusional stuff was being thrown out here. They even promoted that junk Cerulean Moment device :))) The reality is different than Jason and Zac see it. No matter what MS decides to call this new thing, no sane man would ever bother with a pocket device without any usability...
A tablet with telephony. Can't get any real work done on a phone.
Can't any "REAL WORK" done on a tablet either.
The difference is the second coming will happen.
If what you say is true, then Microsoft is guaranteed to have a bright future in Mobile. And no, this is not sarcasm.
It wasn't the app gap it was the carrier support that killed WMP. MS put the horse (apps) in front of the cart (carriers), paying -- PAYING -- content providers like the NYT to create apps for WMP, all while VZ and ATT did nothing to move the products in the stores. Every dedicated WMP user knows what I'm talking about. Even when the phones were on display the sales team ignored and, as I personally saw multiple times, denigrated the product.
I'm done with Android, not upgrading my phone this year since smartphones have become a boring thing for me. I'll keep my Xperia M4 Aqua device until the internal battery dies or my phone gets stolen.
I do have intentions to pay for a 1 year Mobile Plan, but instead of using my phone I want to use my 11.6" 2 in 1 with Windows 10, I'm going to use Whatsapp for Windows, Skype and other apps for communication, but the important thing is I like Mobile Internet and this time I don't want to use it with a limited device like a smartphone.
Just my 2 cents.
i still use a Windows smart phone but will sooner or later migrate to Apple iphones or if the Andromeda device with a built in Cell phone comes to the market buy that instead of an iphone.
I do not dwell on why Windows smart phones failed. The best form factor for the Andromeda device I think wont be pocket able. the original MS "Courier" was not a device you could not put in pants pockets. I have seen video's on the MS Courier and want that device more than I want any smart phone despite the fact it's not pocket able. years ago MS CEO Ballmer showed it to Bill Gates who went against it because it lacked certain Windows software Ballmer should have just gotten Microsoft programmers to add the software Bill Gates wanted in and brought it to the market place. it was far superior than a Ipad or Android Tablets. I read Microsoft is not making native soft ware for it's products. That's a big mistake because Andromeda 2 screen devices need special software to make them useful. Microsoft in the past has failed to get many 3rd party developers to make apps for it's devices that is one of the reasons why Windows smart phones were not popular. A non Pocket able 2 screen Courier Type device using a Intel core "M" CPU is the best NEW device for Microsoft to make. WHY!= Because it will run Full Windows 10, Some Old Windows PC programs, The Windows 10 store apps and the new PWA apps. without win32/X86 32/64 bit emulation soft Ware to slow it down and that is a real BIG DEAL !
Whether it's Gates, Ballmer, or Nadella, they're ultimate priority is profit. it's hard to stay relevant if you don't have the revenue to continue to present your brand. I'm sure like every other business model, you have people at MSFT who are looking at expenditures, and the return in investment on those resources being utilized. Some ventures are worth staying the course, but technology is an ever evolving game, and you better be confident in your investment or you'll be wasting resources. There are multiple factors you need to consider and the most relevant factor is outside the realm of your control. What is your product? MSFT presented an outstanding mobile OS that to this day has a cleaner presentation and more fluid functionality than iOS or Android. How much support does your product have? How many carriers supported Windows Phone? How many stores not only sold Windows phone, but had a decent knowledge of how the phones worked? How many stories have you heard about going to a store to inquire about a windows phone only to be redirected to an iPhone or Android? How many customers actually were interested in buying a windows phone? No matter how good a product is, if no one buys it, no one cares. MSFT as always provides minimum advertisement so I was not surprised that word of windows phones wasn't widespread, but even in the Windows phone 7 and 8.1 days, iOS and Android was still far superior in a market share perspective. I think MSFT understood they were just spending too much money in a product that wasn't going to able to compete with similar products that had better support and consumer buy in. Look at the Band. A great product, but against the likes of Fitbit, and Garmin, not to mention the iWatch, and Samsung, MSFT was just in too saturated of a market for a product they just weren't going to put forth the money knowing they wouldn't get much in return. Xbox was different. They're competition was Nintendo, and Sony. Nintendo is only relevant in gaming, and they were on the decline. The console war was essentially a two company race. The Playstation and Xbox are what's left of a market that used to be very lucrative 20 years ago. MSFT hit pay dirt with Surface because they created a new product bracket. With that way of thinking, it looks like they intend on doing the same with Andromeda. If so, I expect them to be just as successful. Remember it took a few iterations of the Surface to make a real impression on the market. I think MSFT realizes that with the foldable, mobile capable device.
Wrong. With Andromeda they already have a competition, and other won't simply stay and do nothing. With the Surface they had no competition on the form factor. No sane person would give up a decent smartphone for a appless junk device from MS which btw, has a proven history of massive failures and product abandonment.
Still around here? there is a forum "I hate MS" you will love it.
Windows phones failed because it was a mediocre product, delivered very late by an inept company that had - in fact still has - no clue when it comes to mobile devices. "Hey, lets put desktop Windows on a mobile device". Yeah, that's a GREAT plan. I can't wait to turn on my Windows 10 powered mobile device and have it immediately start downloading updates, rendering it useless for 10 minutes. Then it needs rebooted to finish installing. Then it has 85 processes and 1,523 threads running when I am doing nothing on it. Then when I put it down for 15 minutes, SVCHOST and/or TrustedInstaller and/or Windows Defender cranks up and uses 50-75% CPU, doing all kinds of S just because I am doing nothing. There goes the battery. MS desperately needs a real mobile OS. Windows 10 ain't it.
You really do not know what you are talking about. You clearly do not even understand how to schedule updates. Primary school?
"MS desperately needs a real mobile OS" +100000000! Those lazy pandas think "let's not write software twice - just make "desktop-like OS"!" - and it obviously fails, because size of mobile dictates completely different way of work and different kind of software!
You clearly do not even see the writing on the wall and you are still thinking 10 years old technology. Despite the billions of devices a mobile OS is dead-end technology as too limited. Technology (processor ) capabilities are making stripped-down OS's (I call it Mickey Mouse OS) obsolete as you can soon crank a full OS in a mobile device (that once hooked on a monitor turns in to a real PC with all the capabilities of real software and real 32/64 bit applictions). And if you do not hook it to a monitor, you still have all that processing power at hand with as scalable interface - that's what Andromeda is about. And if you do not want all that processing power and you want to open your garage door with your smartphone or check your doorbell you still will be able to buy an iPhone or an Android phone. Let's face it similar to people that prefer to drive in a 1974 Mustang rather than a Bugatti. The other ones will want that Bugatti in their pocket and that device will come either this year or in 2 years from now and at current the only company who can truly cross-platform offer one unique OS is MS. Apple and Google are playing catch-up here and they will not have this unified platform the next 3-5 years. That's the battlefield of the future.
Windows Core on Andromeda will not be legacy Windows. It won't have any of that legacy overhead and is rumored to not even emulate x86 at launch. We probably won't even recognize it. The issue with Andromeda will be ecosystem and support. Not legacy Windows baggage.
Far too many links. Just write your piece Jason.
It was clear MS was late to the game, the only way they could catch up was with an exciting device, not a me-too phone with different style and design guidelines. Courier and a mobile specific OS was the move, but the Win folk viewed it as a threat and killed it. Ultimately it was MS's spectacular success with doing things the old way that made them uncomfortable with change. I still think MS can take another swing, but realistically they would need to hit it out of the park with a spectacular new small device category.
The fanboys love the thought of the new "device category". What will that be? leave them here, I want to know what this MAGICAL DEVICE IS?
If anyone had the answer then they would just do it and make all of the moneys, not hang around answering your trolly questions
:))bazaaar fanboy, enjoying Nutella's sh***?
So wpfanboy...i mean WPBAZAAR, What do you WANT this Unicorn to be?
No matter how hard you try and other fanboys here do the same, Andromeda will have the same fate! why on earth would anyone carry his superior smartphone and an andromeda device, or just an andromeda device without proper MOBILE TOUCH OPTIMIZED APPS?? Even so, who on earth would ever trust Microcrap ever again?? I wouldn't pay 2 cents ever to any pathetic mobile attemp from MS as long as that bald idiot is in charge. One cannot trust MS with anything they say these days...
Are you masochistic? Why are you on a windows forum?
Agree 100%. When Google and Apple STARTED FROM THE GROUND and got billions, nobody has right to say "ah, industry moves faster than we can!". Those two succeded, means MS has no excuses here, except "MS managemens is stupid mediocres who cannot lead tech company".
Win10M could win if MS wasn't too lame.
Every Android phone sold adds to the bottom line of MS due to earnings from licenses to be paid to MS. Apple did not start from the ground. Apple was saved by MS from bankruptcy when they were still relying on Mac's only.
Windows phone 7 was too little too late as the market was already dominated by Android and Iphone with more features and good carrier support . Today Windows 10 mobile is arguably the best phone OS on the planet , just only 15 years too late .
Regarding the store: I would rader see less apps, but quality instead of all these webwrappers. They are just slow and buggy and most of the time touch or the pen does not work.. They are not an advantage in any way.. well, that's my opinion off course..
Did at least ONE of these "MS staffers" say "Yes, it's my fault because I'm stupid!"?
It is clear you have no clue whatsoever how a corporation is working. If your mobile phone market share (post iPhone introduction) is playing catch-up versus Android, iPhone and BB and if your earning from licenses (MS receiving from Android use) are higher then your earnings from your own WP platform it is better to cut you losses and to move on rather then starting a battle that you can no longer win and better define a new war area where you can re-set the boundaries. That's forward thinking. MS is not a one-trick pony (that Apple has become) and in a far better position than Google to face the future. All the privacy issue that now surround Facebook will equally spread over to Google's approach towards customer data. MS is better prepared for the future than any other IT player. And yes they do not get any hardware earnings from the smartphone business any longer but 80% of the earnings there are already taken by Apple. Apple will not hurt MS ( they need Azure more then ever) and MS will not hurt Apple (the only one that is stopping the Google juggernaut in mobile phone space). An interesting opinion can be found here:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/siri-youre-fired-why-apple-needs-a-new-per...
Far better than Google to face the future? :)))) LOOOOL MS has no future, it's being ran by an idiot obsessed with his pocket $$. MS will become worse than IBM. And Apple does not need Azure..lol
Have you ever checked the financials of IBM lately and the various ratio's? better to check before you start posting this kind of "in -depth" analysis mmgn style. You would be surprised how much Apple (will) rely upon Azure.....
I am using Microsoft Lumia 535. IMEI: 359771065990486. Software Windows 10 mobile. Version 1703. OS Build 10.0.15063.850. My phone turn blank or black when it sleep and nothing display on the screen even after tapping on the screen to wake up. I do always need to restart the phone before being able to use and operate on it. I don't get update. The message I get is my device is up-to-date, which is not. Please I really need help. This has been happening after my last update, 10, February 2018. And since then I am unable to get update on my device
I am using Microsoft Lumia 535. IMEI: 359771065990486. Software Windows 10 mobile. Version 1703. OS Build 10.0.15063.850. My phone turn blank or black when it sleep and nothing display on the screen even after tapping on the screen to wake up. I do always need to restart the phone before being able to use and operate on it. I don't get update. The message I get is my device is up-to-date, which is not. Please I really need help. This has been happening after my last update, 10, February 2018. And since then I am unable to get update on my device
I am using Microsoft Lumia 535. IMEI: 359771065990486. Software Windows 10 mobile. Version 1703. OS Build 10.0.15063.850. My phone turn blank or black when it sleep and nothing display on the screen even after tapping on the screen to wake up. I do always need to restart the phone before being able to use and operate on it. I don't get update. The message I get is my device is up-to-date, which is not. Please I really need help. This has been happening after my last update, 10, February 2018. And since then I am unable to get update on my device
After we all agree NADELLA AND MEYERS FAILED with mobile, what about solution? My vision is MS SHOULD OPEN ALL SOURCES of Win10 Mobile! They cannot handle it properly, but since WE PAID FOR IT, we have right to "wake up" platform. And sure we can. Dumb "top managers" cannot see what usual programmer can. FOSS still alive and evolves, means we can improve platform and create firmware which will JUST WORK. We don't need MS participation to create our own nice mobile OS! If any lawyer can do it, DO IT - FORCE MS TO GIVE US SOURCES!
The Microsoft people commenting here I think missed a large part of the reason their phones failed. Phones are primarily consumer oriented devices and have a lot to do with image. Those "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" ads Apple ran really hurt their brand in the consumer space. It was cool to be seen with the new iPhone and people were willing to pay a lot to support that image. It was never cool to buy a Microsoft phone. Sometimes it's not about the technology, it's not about the ecosystem. As long as people were willing to pay premiums for the other brands but not Microsoft because it wasn't cool to own a Windows phone, they were in trouble.
SHEEP! EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE POLITICAL LANDSCAPE TODAY.
Microsoft killed WPhone all on their own with their myopic insistence that Bing and ONLY Bing be used for all search functions.
This is why Google refused to allow their services to be native on WPhone. They demand that ALL Google Services use Google Search/advertising and with MS demanding that BING be used instead, Google then refused to let anything run on WPhone, which, frankly, is why it failed.
EVERY SINGLE REVIEWER was expecting Google services on WPhone, just like they existed on both Android and iOS (where Google pays Apple $2 Billion/year to be on the iPhone) and when they could not run GMail, GMaps, and any of the other Google services in a NATIVE APP they trashed the phones, which, at the time were FAR superior to the crap of Android 3 at the time and the tiny, walled-garden of iPhone 4s.
But, it stayed that way and MS never let Google take over the search functions and WPhone died because of it (as way too many apps in both the Apple Store and Play Store depended on Google services to even work in the first place, thus they could never work on WPhone.)
Reviewers were pretty positive on the hardware, performance, and fluidity and integration of the Wphone OS, but the "app-gap" killed it at a time it desperately needed to be able to run all the "Standard" apps users had come to expect on Android and iOS devices, and no, the 3rd-party apps didn't really work as replacements.
By the time W10Phone came around, 8.1 was starting to get some traction, but MS screwed the pooch on that transition, killing way too much of the integration that was present on 8.1 and that was the final nail in the coffin.
RIP WPhone. We hardly knew ye'.
The ones who know do not want Google Spy browsers. Why? Think again.
No, Eric Schmidt overseeing Novell's fall from grace is why Google never supported Windows Phone/Mobile. Rightly or wrongly, he fully blamed Microsoft for that, and carried that chip forward to Google.
Yeahhhh and Mercedes drivers expect a BMW engine in their car... dream-on.
I don't want anything to do with Apple or Android. Any way to crowdfund an OS for mobile? If so, count me in.
The tweet from Brandon Watson in the article is revealing of an internal attitude hostile to mobile as well. Microsoft spent plenty "pleasing Sisyfus" getting Bing and X-Box off the ground - and its arguable Bing isn't still subsidized. I'm generally supportive of what Nadella has accomplished at MS - but where he is today is due in no small part to Microsoft "pleasing Sysifus" while he was helming Bing in its infancy. In keeping with the Greek theme - Meyerson had a Herculean task, but he was battling the Scylla and Charybdis of Ballmer and Sinofsky. Ballmer has somewhat "owned" his missteps on mobile, but Sinofsky? Give him credit for Windows 7 and Outlook.com, but his fingerprints are also smudged all over the Office ribbon UI, Windows 8, and the lack of mobile vision beyond Win 6.
All in all there were just jokers working on Windows Phone development, and that resulted in its failure. Couldn't even get it to 64bit 🤦🏾. Still use my L950XL and amazed at had this been in 64 bit my device would be twice as fast now. The battery would have been better, apps would open faster, pic taking would be faster, Cortana passive listening would actually work etc. MS truly missed the boat, don't think it had anything to do with what's said in the article. Should have made one device running w10m optimized it to run that and go from there. MS tried to please too many at one time and got it all wrong with their support. The consumers became frustrated and left. All MS had to do was move to 64bit, support its apps more and they would have still been in the mobile phone market today.
64 bit has nothing to do with anything. Windows phones simply did not sell. Period. They could have been 256 bit. It would not have mattered.
Always blaming the others...typically for Microcrap. The only fault lies in MS alone!
"Microcrap" man man this joke was already outdated in 1986.....
Where did you get that avatar picture? I designed it 😊
email sucks on android and ios. windows has to make its way back to a mobile telephony type device.
Yes so I stick with Lumia 950 XL 😉
I don't get it, most of the job is done, MS can cool it down, cut the cost, stay as number 3 in the mobile system, let other companies in, I'm willing to pay a monthly fee just to have the basic MS software like it is today on my phone, the rest can other developer take care of.
The problem is that some people at Microsoft have apparently devolved a hate towards the windows phone, windows 10 mobile and everything that has windows and phone in common. It is no longer smart to hold a Windows phone in your hand at Microsoft. It is like some people in charge at Microsoft has been brainwashed by Apple or Google...
The last Windowsphone is due to disappear from my house tomorrow when I buy a Nokia 6 (2018) for my wife. Both of us had Lumia 950s (and previous models) but mine got sold on ebay and my LG G6 is my daily phone. There are a number of reasons for failure; Microsoft had incredible Apple envy and raised expectations beyond the ability of WP7 to deliver, Microsoft saw Windows as it's main product and phone as a side-show until they realised people were moving to mobile in big numbers, Windows Mobile 6.x was all about the enterprise whereas 7 did a 180 and was all about consumer, Microsoft failed to build an adequate ecosystem to attract consumers and what they use, they failed to capitalise on Nokia's brand recognition outside the US wanting "Microsoft" or "Windowsphone" to be the brand, they rebooted the OS 3 times requiring users to buy new hardware, and much, much more. If you want the Nokia side the PDF translation of the Finnish book "Operation Elop" is a good read on how the Nokia people were horrified at the poor implementation of phone features when they saw the inside. Mostly of course Microsoft didn't love phone. It was just another SKU and much less important than Windows which they had to reboot themselves after Windows 8. Repairing Windows sucked all the oxygen out of the development cycle when it was most needed. If Microsoft were prepared to run a sort of guerilla phone business with "think different" style marketing. If they were prepared to settle for being the upstart brand and sell on things like imaging, Exchange, Sharepoint, Office 365 compatibility maybe live video via mixer too they could have sold a modest few million devices a year and ticked over until the next innovation slowly building a consistent loyal base. However, corporations don't work like that just startups. I can't see anything that has changed in this area for Microsoft. They are making buckets of money for subscription services, have no app ecosystem to speak of. Windowsphone was so unloved by Microsoft their staff didn't use them and demos at conferences moved to iphones and android. They killed their own product with willful neglect.
Actually a lot of the high end windows 8 phones with the Nokia and Lumia brand could be upgraded to Windows 10 mobile 📱 so... Phones like the 1530 etc. Could use win 10 mobile and therefore it was not really a rebrand when windows 10 mobile were introduced. Still using my Lumia 950 XL and it rocks. I also have Samsung Galaxy S8 that I keep comparing but it is in no way gonna beat my Lumia 950 XL. And actually that Lumia phone is a phablet which I believe will the future of most smart phones and handhold PC.
This is good article. I have say it's nice that somebody knows Andromeda os. I think it's funny that no one thinks logically around here. .
There are three devices
1 the new device that I'm counting a tablet phone
2 it will be smartphone was two screens on the front one in the back.
3 smartwatch will be small cell phone. Just show off what the new software can do in the mobile space.
When the last one leaves, please bring the flag with you.
I never leave so give me that flag 😎
The reason is simple: Microsoft bought Nokia. That is what killed Windows Phone there and then it just took a few years to die. In that one masterstroke of stupidity Microsoft managed to ruin the company that made the best WP handsets while at the same time turning every other handset producer from an ally into a competitor, stupid stupid stupid.
It is not dead yet. We are supported until December 2019 and that is way better than most Android phones. Just saying 😉
All I know is that I spent like 600$ on the Lumia 950 XL I. Mid 2016. I love that phone even though I have a Samsung Galaxy S8. The Microsoft outlook sucks on Android and the google calendar on Android will never be as good as the Outlook calendar on Lumia 950 XL. The very fact that I bought a flagship and in that sense supported Microsoft and that I now will get a middle finger in like 10 months time is something that makes.me a bit angry. It is in every sense a betrayal of the hard core fans no matter how it is put. Sorry but that is the fact. Also it is not possible to install Cortana and Microsoft Edge on Android in my country on the Samsung S8 Android phone. In other words for a full Windows 10 Experience it is still much better to stick with my Lumia 950 XL 🐱‍👤🐱‍👤🐱‍👤🐱‍👤
windows phone didnt die because microsoft gave up on it. do you people not have memories surpassing 2 years? the answer is plain and simple. microsoft was either making the apps for the companies,or they were paying them to do it. and you know what happened? the app devs took the money and didnt do ****. snapchat (2016) said they were releasing the app that summer. guess what,nothing happened. people paid for products they did not receive. this is windowscentral. microsoft is well aware that they have a massive fanbase that wants to buy windows phones. obviously since we have been talking about it since 2013. half a decade. the truth and matter is,these snobby little kids saturating the phone app development market . are biased and lazy and do not care what their consumers want. they want you to use their services on the platforms they choose. if people choose windows phone apparently that means you have no say in the matter especially if you use their services regularly, and especially if you dropped $850 on a phone packing an 8 core processor and 3gb ram,if they made an app it sucks. its never been a matter of microsoft holding on to their fanbase,its a matter of their fanbase being told to **** off by the app developers after they take everyone's money.
But the apps I use work damn well on my Lumia 950 XL. Yes no Snapchat but I do not really need it.

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