Opera slams Microsoft's browser battery tests, claims better power savings

As far as I could understand, Microsoft's test were made using Edge Anniversary update.

Who knows :p it still points out though that MS wasn't transparent on how they worked it out. If they had used the anniversary update edge, they should mention so :p however it could be a good possibility

But wouldn't Opera with it's native ad blocker have a predictable advantage over edge or the others that dont? Many ads these days are flash or video and sometimes contain sound. A similar advantage could be attributed to battery sever mode. Therefore, it shouldn't at least one, if not both, of those features be disabled to level the playing field (I.e. Make it a more accurate straight up comparison)??

Exactly my point

Edge could have a built-in ad blocker but then it will also have to block Bing ads.

Why? Opera's ad-blocker has Google whitelisted by default.

They can whitelist their own (and maybe some other sources) if they wish to. Thing is, having built-in ad-blocker on built-in web browser on widely used OS doesn't sound like good for advertising companies and owning a website. Having it optional as an extension is a balanced approached. As long as the extension doesn't actually whack the browser stability and performance, it's good.

I was thinking the same thing.

Yeah, sure, but ad-blocker is a built in feature for Opera, which is an advantage in itself. In any event, the point is the MS claimed that Edge beat Opera in battery usage. MS didn't reveal its methodology though. Now, Opera had demonstrated that its tests show it to be significantly more efficient than Edge.

MS tested Opera with battery saver on, and ad-blocker off. Thats fair. Opera test not. They test dev Opera vs stable Edge, with battery saver and ad-blocker both switched on.

I'm not sure it's unfair either. Opera 38 (public) has battery saver and ad blocking available. Dev is actually on 40 now.

Opera 38 is indeed have battery saver and ad blocking already, it's a public release. So both are compared with public versions, not dev/beta.

Ad blocking is weird. True, the things you point out can affect battery life negatively, but blocking ads themselves can be a CPU and memory intensive task as well. So it's kind of hard to really measure. Opera, however, slows down scrolling framerate and reduces video quality in battery saving mode as well as turns off tabs not being viewed. That's how it does its things.

Sure, ad blocking is a toss up, but no one I know browses with battery saver mode, so they should be embarrassed that's what they used to get better numbers. It's straight up cheating.

It's a fine line. i see the point, but they are offering a toggle that other browsers simply do not offer. It is an important feature distinction, imo, and Opera should be boasting about it in such a competitive field.

Boasting about it and just plain lying to get more attention in benchmarks are 2 completely different things.

You have to tell us where they "lied" before we actually take you serious and write you off as a disgruntled troll.  They didn't lie.  Unless you're reading something the rest of us cannot see (white on white text, perhaps).

They manipulated their test in their favor. Additionally, they said that Microsoft didn't disclose how they performed their test, while they did. They claim Microsoft made a "huge PR effort", but all they did was blog about something they have been blogging about for years. I can go on for a while...

When I use my tablet, i switch battery saver mode on, for both Windows and Opera.  Unfortunately it crashes Opera half the time for some reason. Battery mode is also automatically turned on at some points as I've had a pop up before telling me it's switched itself on.  

Good point, but im sure the overall overhead is likely lower blocking ads then leaving them since i imagine it does a scrape/parse on page load versus it being a continuous cycle eater like the video ads it removes (assuming the test encounters a fair number of video ads). But like you said, it'd be tough to tell...which makes these comparisons kind of unreliable/unrepeatable.

Opera's test is comparing apples and oranges. It may very well be true that, when put into a specialized mode that the other browsers lack, Opera brings better battery life. But that neither proves Microsoft's test to be wrong nor that Opera is the best browser for battery life under normal operating conditions.

What you say about adblocking is true when it's about extension based adblocking. In those cases, the browser render the website and then an additional script starts making changes after the fact. That's why there is additional CPU and memory usage involved with ad blocking. Opera implemented adblocking at an engine level, therefore ads are blocked before they are being rendered and there is no additional page reconstruction being done because the ads were blocked before hand.

Which is indeed sounds more efficient implementation since the ad-blocking is baked on the browser. Most other web browsers only have ad-blocking through extensions which have some slight CPU overload since it has to excute that adblock extension first before it filters the ads out. Not to mention that badly written extensions (or simply bad extension system) can cause instability to the web browser itself or the rendering. So when it comes to filtering ads efficiently, sounds like Opera is winner here (maybe IE too).   

I have adblocking actually on my router, I use Gargoyle custom firmware and the adblock plugin does some clever DNS trick with the blacklisted domains and returns an invisible pixel in place of the ad, this speeds up ALL browsers!!

I would say no. Opera's test sounds like a much more real-world scenario. You would use less battery if you use these modes, which is a big part of why they are available. Just testing video viewing, like MS did, seems pretty deceptive. Where Edge bogs down seems to be in this rapid browsing scenario. I see this all the time when using Bing Rewards on Edge - pages often go unresponsive.

"We then automated each browser to perform the same series of activities: opening websites, scrolling through articles, and watching videos, opening new tabs for each task. We used the same websites you spend your time on – Facebook, Google, YouTube, Amazon, Wikipedia and more."
So, no, it wasn't just playing videos

I went to count: Edge and Chrome had to load 92 ads that Opera did not load, and that's without scrolling down, so if any more ads loaded by then, I missed out on these.

And that is exactly why I use Opera. Those darn video ads not only slow down my browsing experience, they are a PIA. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

Technically, no. I mean, its the ad-blocker and battery saver mode are features of the browser, such features MS could implement themselves. That's like saying a 3yr old laptop could be just as fast and efficient as a brand new laptop, if you forget about the fact the new laptop has new hardware. If MS want to make Edge faster than Opera, MS have to get onto Opera's play field with the new features. Of course, edge does have a chance, but MS need to add similar features if it wants a shot against Opera (at the moment). It would feel a bit cheaty to say Opera has to disable half of its features "to level the playing field" just because MS haven't caught up (yet) :)

well, both features can be turned on/off so we should consider the scenarios why we want it on/off. ad blocker should be on in the test as the only escenario where you want it off is when the page refuse to load unless you have ads on (has happens a couple of times), on the other hand in battery save mode why is an on/off state? the reason I find (I dont use opera) is that the browser experience is crippled on save mode, but if you want to save battery life you enable it, so for pure battery performance it should be enable unless is so crippled that you dont want to enable it ever. (consider it as the brightness of your cell phone, do you have it at maximum, minimum or automatic? the latter two are for battery save, but if you cant stand having it at minimum you change it to automatic or maximum)

As Microsoft stated, it was simply streaming video on one tab. That means, there was no use for an ad-blocker.  Microsoft just testet one feature they may have implemented better than others, but a real test, like the one from Opera uses a broad variaton of features a browser needs. And in this case, without an adblocker, I think every browser would be better than edge. (I think the chrome test of opera was also without ad blocker).    But we have to consider edge gets better and better over time. With Ad-blocking a few months away, I think the results will differ.

Well Edge should have built in ad blocking then.

No, it will have extension-based ad blocking.  I don't think Microsoft has any plans to implement Ad-Blocking natively like Opera, or a Content Blocker API like Apple has done with Safari (which is also more efficient than extensions like ABP, by a decent clip).  I don't think they want to deal with the legal issues it has the potential to bring up, given their position in the PC market.

Simple is opera ******* sucks.. I rather use chrome or Firefox and on low end win10 laps edge

I disagree. I use Opera first and prefer it above all the others. Native ad blocking, Opera Turbo, Laptop/battery mode. All wins. Also, you realize Opera is powered by the same rendering engine as Chrome, right? That means the onus is on Chrome to make up for those features I mention above that it does not have.

New emoji's is already available on Redstone build

This comment has literally nothing to do with the topic at hand.

But don't forget I like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches!

damn, I knew I forgot something, thanks for the reminder!

Peanut butter jelly time! Peanut butter jelly time!

I just gave a information

Same. Do you reckon Microsoft should also bake in an Ad blocker in Edge?

Personally won't trust banking and logging in to sites with a Chinese browser. Also, do any password managers even have an extension for it?

I just reviewed Enpass which does. 1Password does. You can use LastPass via Chrome Extension for Opera (lets you use any Chrome extension). Opera isn't Chinese per se; they got Chinese investors. Let's be fair here.

Aren't they Canadian originally?

Nope, they are Finnish.

They are scandinavian, but Opera are from NORWAY

Because the U.S. government is so trustworthy.

Microsoft was quite transparent with respect to the procedure. Also, they did not enable any ad-blockers (which is more representative of the general population habits), the way Opera did here. Opera also used the dev channel on their browser. Yeah, no. I call BS on Opera's claim.

Bit of a base fan boy attitude there. So Microsoft was transparent but opera wasn't? Why just because ms lost in the opera test. I totally agree with Daniel, its a fine line. And I feel Opera has every right to prove their competitive advantage. Its like a car manufacturer coming up with sport mode and telling them no they can't use it in a race because no one else has it. Opera has native blockers and battery saver, so why not use. Also I'd disagree on the general population habits. For me, I think Opera users are technological inclined people as its not a default/familiar browser. You actually have to go out of your way to install it unlike IE/chrome/edge.

Well,I doubt using battery saver mode represents general browsing habits either. And installing opera is in no way harder than any of the others (except I haven't come across it being bundled with some other sw like annoyingly often chrome is).
But native ad blocking is a feature I think they have full right to have turned on. And, btw, opera is my preferred browser, though Vivaldi's getting pretty darn good

Opera can automatically enable its Power Savings mode when it detects your Laptop is on Battery Power (not plugged in).  It advertises it's new [advantageous] features to its uses.  I doubt most people that use Opera are failing to use that setting to be honest.  The benefits are too great to potentially cripple yourself for not turning it on.

It's really just a fine line and Opera have a right to at least boast some features they have that others don't have by default, focusing on how simple to activate the features are, much easier than dealing extensions. Competition among web browsers is never been so easy, even Microsoft struggles in this space (though many actually brought the issue to themselves). This is nothing new trying to prove which is better browser. Some focus on poweruser features and customizability, some for simplicity, some for sheer speed, some for unique features, etc.

Opera is good, but the initial start up is VERY slow which is quite irritating.

Opera suxx. Been using it on ma rumia and was draining power more than did edge.

Care to explain the language you used here?

I'm guessing Rumia is Lumia! And Opera Mini is a very different (and inferior) beast than desktop.

They are talking about PC version not the mobile one.

Opera Mini sucks? Yes. I agree with you. But, Opera desktop sucks? No. I use it as a primary browser (because of Edge doesn't have extension, yet) and I love it. It's lightweight, fast, great UI, and lower power consumption.

Granted... a major difference between the tests are standard releases versus developer. Opera's battery saver is currently only in the developer channel, which most users won't be using.

"Opera's battery saver is currently only in the developer channel, which most users won't be using."

False, it's publicly available since build 38 the first week of June (main public channel). Dev is on 40.

U know, I don't mind. I'm just happy this is all happening on the ecosystem that I love. Let the battle begin!!! Besides, Chrome is still losing :p lol

No. I use it on stable channel. Sadly, it doesn't turn on automatically.

The issue here (from my perspective) is that they are comparing an old (TH) version of Edge, to the latest dev candidate of Opera, with a (built-in) ad-blocker running. A more realistic test (personal opinion) would be the latest Insider version of Edge + ad-blocker extension, vs Opera + ad-blocker. I'd leave out the battery saver, as this is an additional layer, and people probably aren't going to enable this by default. 

Opera 38 is the public channel/official version and has Battery Save and native ad blocker available. Dev is build 40. Battery saver can be enabled automatically when it detects your laptop is not plugged into AC. No joke. It's pretty cool.

They just switched dev to 40. Previous dev version was 39.0.2248.0. 

How do you enable it to automatically come on? I have to manually enable it each and every time I'm on battery, and can find no setting to automate the process.

(1) Either they removed the option or (2) it's now automated. Either way, go to about:flags search for 'battery' and you should see a toggle for "Battery saver: If the browser is running on battery, the browser will try to minimise power consumption at the expense of performance." and there you can have enabled/disabled/default (enabled).

First thing I did was change that flag setting to Enabled, but I still have turn it on each time. I did some research and found others complaining in their forums that there is no way to automate the process.

Well, there you have it... Based on their different tests...

Microsoft Talking about Normal Surfing and Browsing without any Modes or Extensions and then Opera Comes out and said....Look we have "Power Saver mode (You Need to Enable it)" which is Running on Dev Version.... can beat Edge by less then one Hour.....well Played Opera....nice Strategy to Gain some Attention...

Opera are attention whores anyway. Let's not forget that they were the ones who complained to the EU about Microsoft bundling IE with Windows. Hmmm... Microsoft bundling a Microsoft product with a Microsoft OS, all while NOT blocking rival browsers!!!

I see it as competition and you just do whatever you can to get an advantage. Google and Microsoft both did that up until recently when the called a truce, remember?

Yes I do, but that had nothing to do with Opera

The larger point is companies, including Microsoft, routinely use the law/courts/jurisprudence to win a competitive advantage over their rivals. There's nothing wrong with that as there is a reason why there are courts and due procedures for filing complaints. If it's bogus, the courts will throw it out, in which case there is no issue. To ding Opera on this topic while Microsoft does the same things seems dishonest.

Indeed you do, but something you don't do is cheat in benchmarks and than claim your 22% better than the rest while that is completely false.

oh...now I get it....it's a "We are still Enemy Microsoft" Campaign by Opera.... lol

Actually MS wasn't so nice to Opera in early  2000s. Read points 1.6, 1.8, 1.9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Opera_web_browser

Don't know about normal usage, but while watching videos, Edge is a bit better in saving battery compared to Opera. I've noticed this.

So the included video shows that without Opera Battery Saver mode, Edge would have won as battery saver makes a big difference.  With Opera battery saver mode, you get a more limited web experience (although generally adequate) which is what creates the savings.  But is not a like for like test.

I kind of agree, but I mean, Opera is boasting about a specific and unique feature for saving battery. Kind of duplicitous but also an important distinction.

Nice new word for me. Duplicitous. :)

Word of the day... Le's see if we can use that word in other article posts. :)

I'd love it if Opera had ran their browser both with battery saver on and off as if it makes a big difference it does make the feature look good, and they have obviously done some good work introducing the feature. Also it would truly be transparent It's good to see more recently opera stepping up their game and coming back out of nowhere to challenge the others. It can only lead to better browsers overall. I feel like until they started making a big deal of their features people had forgotten about it. I've used opera off and on for years and years and it's never been as good as it is now.

Opera throwing a fit. Nothing new here.  

Well, do you blame them? Microsoft did challenge their product. I'm sure Microsoft would do the same if Opera threw down a challenge. People like to defend their work, nothing wrong with that. Consumers win in the end. Competition is good (and fun).

Actually I can, out of Opera and Microsoft which one complained to the EU again!!?!

I don't get it, it's not your fight and that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. You're saying Opera shouldn't boast about a feature they have because they complained to the EU about Microsoft? In what world does that follow and make any sense?

Uhm, Microsoft didn't threw them a challange. They just putted up a blog post talking about battery improvements and to state their case, they included some benchmarks. A benchmark without any comparision is ridiculous so they also threw in a number of other browsers. What Opera did here is what we call "throwing a tantrum". They act as if Microsofts blog post was a personal attack against them and their blog post really shows just how childish they are, the hole tone of it is more about bashing against Microsoft instead of actually trying to prove something. Because if they wanted to prove that their browser is indeed better on this front, they could at least have tried to put up a fair firght. Something they didn't, and the comment section of their blog post makes that quiet clear. Further more, I've never seen Microsoft put out a blog post as a respond on another vendor's benchmarks and/or solely to bash their competitors. That's exactly what Opera is doing, it is as if they can't have it that they have been defeated - by the way by a company that has put power consumtion on the front line ever since Internet Explorer 9. Their testing methodes are flawed. Benchmarks are done by clean installs of a browser, they changed settings: enabled Battery Saver, enabled ad blocker to gain the upperhand, and the websites they used in their "benchmark" are carefully picked to give as much of an advantage to Opera as possible. This wouldn't have worked if they actually picked out the most used websites. All the websites they used had 92+ ads together, of which a lot where quiet heavy. That's all content Edge and Chrome had to load, while Opera did not, seriously reducing the power consumption of Opera. Fact is, if both Edge and Chrome also had an ad blocker, they both would have performed much better on these tests too. Not to mention that this isn't even close to a real-life scenario. The behavior they describe isn't something anyone is going to do. And finally: unlike Edge and Chrome, the experience on these websites is damaged in Opera: lower quality in pictures, longer waiting times, etc.

Didn't realize opera even still made a browser.

Yeah they still do. I would say veru impressive. I ditched Chrome for Opera. And still using Edge.

I reviewed it a few weeks ago. Won me over.

It never went away they just didn't talk about it to people. Sounds like another product many of us here are very fond of lol :-) Good to see them stepping up and coming out fighting. MS are very focused on Edge but when I use chrome (daily) it does feel like google have become a bit complacent with it as usage has increased.

Lol!

Edge in preview is 38.14367 I'm sure MS used the latest and greatest for their tests but I could be wrong.  

Microsoft used Edge 13, not Edge 14.

Still waiting for UC browser to get an update -_-

There's a windows 10 app coming I'm pretty sure I read on WC the other day..

Well regardless, it doesn't change the fact that Chrome is the worst lol

I really don't see how that is true. I gave up Chrome for Opera. I like the design, the features, native ad blocking, battery saver option, pop out video, etc. How is it worse?

In both tests, Chrome came in last for battery life, making it the worst browser, in terms of battery life.

At least they both agree that Chrome sucks. And I don't see Alphabet backing their browser and throwing out any challenges. I think Chrome has officially moved off my list of browsers to use. Opera, welcome to my list :)

Been using Opera for awhile now, and I really like it. One big annoyance is it keeps periodically changing my default search engine from Bing back to Google.

Well, browsers can affect batteries in multiple ways, depending on what they CAN handle better, and what they ARE handling better (according to settings and stuff). Opera obviously have focused more on savings, since I remember. And maybe that's why they reacted to MS's bragging.. Because they (Opera) are the best in savings. But it doesn't mean edge isn't going in that direction. Yes, edge is still half baked, I use it everyday, it is very very light, but it hangs, crashes, restarts every tab etc... But I believe it'll become much better, and a good competitor. And I've been using Opera for a very long time, and I honestly think that it is VERY underrated. But, whoever wins, it's good for the PC market. :)

Haha, Opera enabled the Battery Saver option to show their browser leads to better battery life. Turn off battery saver and run the test again. That's probably what Microsoft did. No need to cheat when trying to prove Microsoft wasn't truthful.

Actually, Microsoft also enabled Battery Saver for their test. Even better, Edge had to handle 1080p content while Opera, Firefox and Chrome only get 720p from Netflix (because that's appaerently how Netflix works).

Kyle Pflug from Microsoft Edge team responded to Opera’s claims that they did not turn on the Ad blocker feature in Opera which will significantly affect battery life numbers .

This test turned on an ad blocker, which is off by default. Not loading+rendering the same content in all browsers. https://t.co/fKTWxqkUuq — Kyle Pflug (@kylealden) June 22, 2016

 

Our tests did include Battery Saver mode turned on, but loaded and rendered the same content in each browser. — Kyle Pflug (@kylealden) June 22, 2016

from my own exp edge has huge performance memory issues especially with sites like windowscentral and facebook.  The ram count will bounce sometimes over 1gig to 2.5 gigs if left open to long.  the ram useage is a huge suck on battery life.  I am hoping once edge comes out of "beta" in windows aniversary update that these issues will be resolved.

I used to have Chrome on my work computer, now I have Firefox. Both of them consume over 1GB RAM with only one tab open (Windows Central).
 

Opera numbers make more sense to me

I really like the Small fish challenging the Big fish. Opera is excellent since it added ad blocking and battery saver mode. We though are not sure how MS tested the performance so it is good that Opera stated their methodology and it is now upto MS to explain theirs. Anyways we as end users are having fun. 

Well, I use Opera on my Surface Pro 4 right now BECAUSE it's battery efficent, has built-in adblock, picture in picture videos and extensions. Once Edge has extensions, I might not need it anymore. But I sure like the PiP.

I am a huge fan of what Opera has brought to the table over the past year or so. They have a native adblocker built into the browser and a toggle for saving battery life. I don't thing using these two features are "cheating" the battery test as they are natively built into the browser. Opera is doing some great things in the way of Android development as well with their two flagship browsers Opera and Opera Mini now also offering native adblocking. At the very least, we can all agree that these are the types of innovation that push the whole industry to be better.

Everyone is taunting about Opera or Edge here, while I sit at my PC and enjoy both of them Opera on my main PC and Edge on my Asus Transformer with Atom CPU, EDGE is the only browser to be fluid on the Atom tablet. But what takes my attention beside this is that both companies showed that Chrome is eating more battery, by the way, MS did the test by running a video from YouTube (if u recall it correctly), Opera did it by doing stuff on different sites.

There are a couple of issues with Opera's test here. First off, the websites they choose seem to be biased for the way Opera works, unlike Opera, other browsers have to load 92 additional ads, some that are very heavy. Microsofts test was without ad blocker. Their attitude here is also ridiculous, they act as if they are personally offended by Microsofts blog post. They even claim Microsoft did "some huge PR effort" while they didn't, they just posted a blog. If anyone here is doing a "huge PR effort", it's Opera themselves. Now, some more intresting facts about Microsofts test: their test was also biased towards Opera. Even better, their test was biased against Edge. Opera had Battery Saver enabled in Microsofts test. Meanwhile, Edge was put in a disadvantage because of how Netflix behaves: while other browsers receive 720p content, Netflix will try to provide Edge with 1080p content giving Edge even more data to process.

I would totally switch to opera but their new browser won't let you turn on battery saver by default. You always have to turn it on manually. They fix that (and some major UI upgrades) and I'm in.

At least the UI is nicer than the default Chrome theme (all the main browsers are imo)

Okay, kind of off topic, but anyone using Vivaldi on a regular basis here?? I really like it :-)

I like Vivaldi a lot as well. It reminds me of the old school Opera with a ton of productivity features but it looks way cleaner.

Vivaldi is a cluttered mess unless you set it up right.

Vivaldi is a cluttered mess unless you set it up right.

Want to, but like opera, too much default google going on to trust it... Maybe some day... I miss the old days when opera was a decent browser.

I only see benefits for us users with all this browsers war

Hmmm? Kinda funny. I downloaded and install Opera on my 640 just for grins to see how it works. Installed fine, however, on my 640XL every time I type it go as far as op then crashes. I can type anything else and no issues. Funny. Oh, both have the 14371.

Was the new ad blocker enabled ? Of course they will get better battery performance if they leave out a big chunk of the pages content.

adblock for itself saves hours of battery life :) so, no this is no slam, this is pr

...with native ad blocker and power saver enabled

​So they only beat Edge by using plugins? I call BS then.

No research conclusion came from just one test. Microsoft just did once, so did opera. Whatever, firefox + adblock + IDM is the best thing ever for me. Don't care about battery life.

I believe Microsoft did the test without enable the battery saving mode, as they stated:
>We designed Microsoft Edge from the ground up to prioritize power efficiency and deliver more battery life, without *any special battery saving mode or changes to the default settings*

What about not visiting sites with spyware or having all privacy protections on on all browsers? My guess is Edge does better, since it isn't constantly telling google what you're doing at all...

I really like Opera lately. Remember back in August last year Mozilla wrote an open letter saying that Microsoft was being monopolistic by making it hard for people to choose their default browser. Then here comes along Opera and just updates their browser, makes it fit with the Windows 10 UI and generally just makes sure tge browser works well on Windows 10. Lol, here we have one company (Mozilla) that is just blowing hot air and another company (Opera) that just gets work done lol. Opera knows their stuff and they deserve higher msrket share than they do now.

I really like Opera lately. Remember back in August last year Mozilla wrote an open letter saying that Microsoft was being monopolistic by making it hard for people to choose their default browser. Then here comes along Opera and just updates their browser, makes it fit with the Windows 10 UI and generally just makes sure tge browser works well on Windows 10. Lol, here we have one company (Mozilla) that is just blowing hot air and another company (Opera) that just gets work done lol. Opera knows their stuff and they deserve higher market share than they do now.

Microsoft Edge works efficiently on Windows 10 Mobile. So I am not even going to think about Opera.

Just use ad-blocking with an updated hosts file, see http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm
I have been using this for years. Works by routing the connections of these ads to your loopback 127.0.0.1 address

Opera is Garbage? Yeah, that's pretty much all I read there... No one wants to use battery saver mode, which is why MS didn't use it on Opera's browser during their benchmark test. Maybe some day O will ACTUALLY build a better browser that doesn't scroll like a seizure, and render like a kindergarten art project. Til then, Edge is the man.

OOOOoooooo, sick burn!