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Will Windows phone fans finally get the device of their dreams?

The device taking shape as more information surfaces is what we've been faithfully describing while most outlets declared Microsoft's mobile efforts dead. Analysis of Microsoft's technological investments, its mission, vision statements and other information has helped us build a narrative consistent with what appears to be Microsoft's next mobile device and ongoing strategy.

Still, it's been a long journey. And despite reliable sources and patents that indicate Microsoft's working on a next-generation device, things can still go south. The Surface Mini and McLaren are proof of that.

Yet if the device surfaces Windows phone fans who believed all along will rejoice. And contrary to the critics, our confidence that Microsoft's been working on a mobile device has rested on more than blind hope. In fact, the patents and other information that have since convinced doubters of the existence of Microsoft's inking-focused folding device reflects the narrative we've weaved over time. Now, since 2018 may be the year Microsoft brings this device to market, I'll share a brief look back into my thoughts and analytical process that has convinced me (and others) to stay the course.

Windows 10 and a pen-focused device

Windows 10 finally positioned Microsoft to bring the full power of Windows to a mobile device. The promise of a unified core inspired my January 2015 analysis that Microsoft might bring a seven-inch inking-focused device to market running full Windows.

Rather than being a phone with a large display... the … will be a tablet with telephony functionality ... with the full functionality of a tablet and ... range of capabilities of a Windows 10 ARM-based tablet, but will also be capable of functioning as a phone...A productivity tablet with software enhanced to take full advantage of a digitizer pen, full access to a host [of] multimedia and leisure apps with the additional ability to place and receive phone/Skype calls and Skype/SMS messaging is an easier sale than a seven-inch smartphone. 

This early analysis didn't benefit from what we now know of Core OS, CShell and Project Andromeda. But it's founded on OneCore and Microsoft's long-time vision of bringing the full power of Windows to a mobile form factor. Most important is that it reflects what's being borne out today.

Panos Panay's moleskine and redefining mobile

Surface creator Panos Panay's attention to detail and perseverance inspired my analysis that begged the question, "Will the Surface phone be a reimagined Surface Mini?" in November 2015. Panay still uses a Surface Mini (which was canceled in 2014) as a digital journal or Moleskine.

Also despite the poor performance of the first two iterations of Surface and a billion dollar loss he kept the ideas that worked and persisted until Surface Pro 3's success.

I added his commitment to an idea, his continued use of inking via the Mini (which was intended as a digital notepad) to my previous analysis to advance the narrative that Microsoft's mobile device would have an inking focus. This device via UWP and Continuum would also be a phone, PC and replace a tablet.

Changing the game

In November 2015, consistent with the established narrative, I explained Microsoft's shift away from the smartphone space to the creation of a new mobile PC category in my analysis, Microsoft's mobile offensive is about changing the game.

Early in 2016, I expanded that analysis with a controversial statement, "smartphones are dead", as the backdrop for an exposition on Microsoft's pursuit of an ultramobile PC category with full Windows, context-conforming hardware and software, Continuum and an inking focus.

In a November 2016 analysis of a Microsoft future vision video we delved into Microsoft's foreshadowing a folding mobile device. The Windows 10 on ARM announcement in December 2016 made the path to such a device even clearer.

Windows 10 on ARM brings Microsoft ultimate mobile device into focus

Making PCs mobile and killing Windows 10 Mobile

Windows 10 Mobile Home screen

Windows 10 Mobile Home screen (Image credit: Windows Central)

The evolving Windows-on-mobile ideology, rather than a focus on particular OS iterations (that come and go), framed my understanding of Microsoft's strategy. In February 2017, I highlighted Microsoft's strategy to move telephony-enabled PCs into the mobile space rather than making smartphones more like a PC. This complemented the ongoing analysis that Microsoft's mobile device would not be a phone but a new PC category.

The always-connected, all-day battery and instant-on capabilities of cellular PCs, as predecessors to this new device category, is making this analysis clearer to those who couldn't see it a year ago.

Since this device will run Windows Core OS, this summer I shared my thoughts on why the death of Windows 10 Mobile is a good thing. Core OS finally achieves the power of Windows on all devices. Microsoft's one OS strategy differs from its competitions multi-OS approach.

Even if Windows Mobile succeeded Microsoft would have pursued a post-smartphone device

Preponderance of evidence…

Though we didn't have concrete proof of Microsoft's plans over the years, we had enough evidence to paint an accurate picture. I even shared my analytical process with readers this year hoping they'd apply a discerning eye to Microsoft's investments and see the emerging strategy.

See more

Now, here on the cusp of 2018, we're wondering if this will be the year Microsoft finally puts a mobile-friendly PC in our pockets. Perhaps. Though what I've shared reflects my process (though not comprehensively) and why I'm convinced of Microsoft's plans, the evidence does seem to point in that direction.

How Microsoft is prepping the enterprise for its folding mobile Surface

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

221 Comments
  • If they have any dedication to such a device, why kill Windows 10 Mobile? It would at least help keep some apps and developers around and show they are committed. The only thing I can think is UWP is no longer going to be developed. It must not have a future the way Microsoft treats it. Then brings the question, what apps will this device run? Does Microsoft have another new app platform coming? Will it run Android and have Google Play Services? Is that why it is called "Andromeda"?
  • Because they don't need a device specific OS any longer. They will become truely platform agnostic which is what they have been working and talking about for years. It will have things from what we currently know as the mobile version of Windows 10, which they are still developing but as independent packages for OEM's to put in their future devices.   Windows has plenty of apps and developers.    UWP will continue to be developed which is why Microsoft keeps putting it front and center.   It will run everything. Microsoft doesn't need a new app platform. It will be capable of running Bluestacks for the people who for some reason need Android apps. No it will not be infested with malware/spyware from Google. No, that is not why it is called Andromeda.
  • The not-Phone cometh... and the final days of the mobile phone are here. Not before time either, considering the current line-up from the incumbents which range from the bland to the God-awful. What's more, it will be software capable of running WinMR though the hardware won't be powerful enough. The future is foreseeable though, and an AR headset that can work from a WoA device is not a crazy idea anymore. Just what I've been waiting for, and pointed out was on the cards quite some time ago. It remains a poor show that MS (read Ol' Nads) has actively crushed the mobile Windows user base and momentum before release which is clearly a very mad strategy. Hopefully it'll succeed despite him. It certainly won't be because of the Nadster and his legendary poor thinking ability.
  • "Windows has plenty of apps and developers. " Sort of true, but not in a way that makes this kind of device a success. 
    I love this concept. I might even buy it, but its not going to attract developers to the UWP in a significant way. Its not going to get MS into the consumer mobile game again. Its certainly not ushering in the replacement of the smartphone as the primary consumer computing platform. 
  • If this unicorn 🦄 was aimed fairly and squarely at the corporate world only, it may have some chance of long term survival. Forget consumers and consumer apps, build a powerful and sustainable work tool and maybe-just maybe, in a galaxy far far away, other OEMs could potentially build a consumer version down the track. If not, a powerful work tool only could provide a sustainable and profitable niche market tool.
  • Windows is the focus of all companies and every professional worker in the world. If you are satisfied with app to app jumping and working on a phone, so be it... To me, smartphones haven't ever been enough. I'm glad at least one company is evolving.
  • Tbh wimo was more advanced than android windows phone and ios but until the HTC HD2 came along now phone hardware was powerful enough to do it justice and by then Microsoft had started work on windows phone 7. For me Microsoft going back to the wino days in a way with Windows 10 is what they should be doing making a pc like device that is also a phone. Add Continnum to that as well and Microsoft could be onto a winner but that is only if the arm chips are powerful enough to run what we want on a day to day mobile pc.
  • > not gonna attract developers
    Maybe, but... unless you are giving up win10 (pc, S, ARM, even Xbox, AR, MR, IOT), there's just no other alternatives... Do you think we human are ready to move our work force from Windows to Android & iOS? Do you think a freshman, indie or startup is more willing to provide their own installer, uninstaller, updater, mechanism for purchase / subscription, crack-proof and do your advertisement like how enterprises did back in the day?
  • Microsoft have NOT been putting UWP front and centre for some time now. Then again, with Mobile out of the way, they haven't had to... Hopefully web apps will be the way forward; I don't like the idea of any specific platform gaining what amounts to monopoly, whether it's Microsoft, Apple or Google!
  • You don't get it. Windows 10 Mobile supported UWP. Killing support for W10M killed support for UWP. If they were serious about UWP then they keep W10M just to help UWP until they have something to replace it.
  • You, and the other trolls, argued that NO device was coming ever. That alone makes you look pathetic now, and there's no turning back.... We were right, and you were wrong. SMDH
    .....
    You were proven wrong, you've lost ALL credibility, and your word no longer means anything at all. Your services are no longer needed here, go sit in the corner with your face against the wall, and keep quiet. The more you talk the more pathetic you sound..... JASON WARD, AND FANS WERE RIGHT, AND YOU WERE WRONG, and now it's over with. END OF STORY.
  • It still doesn't take away from the fact that it took several train wrecks by Microsoft to even get here. You sound like a fanboy, so really talking about credibility would be rich coming from you.
  • As if fanboy is actually a bad thing ?
  • 🤷🏽🤷🏽🤷🏽🤷🏽
  • Past failures are trivial to bring up at this point, so what's your point?
    .........
    "You sound like a fanboy"... Have you lost your mind?
    I am a fanboy, and why wouldn't I be? I'm a Windows fan on a Windows site. That's something I'm proud of. Now, you're a troll on a Windows site. I'm thinking that's something you're proud of???.
    That's two questions I just asked you, smart guy. Answer both, or keep your mouth closed about irrelevant topics on this subject.
  • >That's something I'm proud of. Proud....of using a product. CRINGE.
  • Yes. Proud of standing by my word... I'm proud of using many products. Proud of my Chevy truck, because I like Chevy trucks. Proud of my little Mercedes, because they are the best made cars ever, and that I'm convinced of... I'm proud of My Harley Davidson Breakout, because, well,, it's a bad ass Harley. I was proud of my 1520 (best smartphone ever).. Definitely proud of my home; probably my biggest financial accomplishments Nothing wrong with being proud of material things you like. What, do you think it takes away from bring proud of non material things???? If so, what's your connection between the two????.... Please explain
  • _
  • wgs84: Excellent point.
  • Troll? I am looking at things based on the experiences I've had with Microsoft. For example, their efforts with Windows Phone/Mobile, and the trainwreck it was. If I hadn't infact invested in their products and was simply just being critical for the sake of it, then by all means call me a troll lol. Experience has taught me though to never get hyped about what Microsoft are supposedly going to do, until they have done it and nailed it.
  • This is WINDOWS Central, we're all fanboys (and girls) here!
  • You do realize that this could still be vaporware right? Nothing has been set in stone.
  • And, that affects you how?
  • The only thing more annoying than reading Bleached's comments, is reading your constant aggressive drivel. Every topic spammed by you with dozens and dozens of annoying posts, silly name calling, immature troll rants, one after the other. How about taking a back seat kid and let the adults talk for a while?    
  • And, I'm thinking you think I should care what annoys you? Sounds like you're asking me for something... Maybe you should seek solitude elsewhere???
  • as i know W10M is different core with the windows10 on other devices like pc and xbox.
    MS kills it because there will be all in a same core, so there will no longer have the mobile core.
    the windows10 itself will be capable of everything including mobile functions.
    and UWP i use it everyday on my pc, like now i'm using WindowsCentral UWP to reply you, too. why you say the UWP is stop?
  • No, you clearly don't get it and I don't blame you since you know nothing about development. UWP is not about a platform. UWP is about being platform agnostic. Both in interaction models and in form factors. It is as important as ever and it is the basis for WMR. I think Google has limited your mind when it comes to platforms. There doesn't have to be limits to what your platform can be used on or how you interact with it. It is just something Google would like you to think.
  • Giddora - "Windows has plenty of apps and developers"??? If that were the case then why didn't W10M make it.  I know that Rodney will now come on and talk about the irrelevance of apps and I'm just a troll but who cares. Microsoft had "apps" when everything was a software program.  Why do you think that Windows was successful over Mac in the first place?  Because there were PROGRAMS.  Well today, apps are what is important.  But the important question is, "Why APPS now and not PROGRAMS?"  Because of the User Interface.  Back when PROGRAMS ruled the world, you had text based input devices (keyboard) and pointing devices (mouse).  Those are what made PROGRAMS work.  When you move to a smaller device, you are eliminating dedicated keyboards and mice.  So how to you make up for the difference if there is no keyboard or mice?  You restrict the options for interacting with the software.  How is that currently done?  BY APPS!!! Unless this mytical unicorn device that the Massively Screwed-up dys-Functional Team is dreaming up has some kind of new input method, then we are stuck with APPS on a small screen device.  Small screen device = something small and no dedicated input devices.  Now I'm sure folks will say, "Inking!!  I ink everything!"  Good for you!  But you are in a minority of the world.  If inking were so great, then more folks would be doing it. "But what about the magic of a moleskine?", others will say.  If moleskine were so amazing, then I'm betting that D'ieteren SA/NV (the company that bought Moleskine) would have a market cap of greater than 2.1B.  Moleskine has almost gone the way of the Dodo Bird with the exception of hipsters using them in over-priced coffee shops. And what work/productivity are you going to be doing on a digital moleskine?  Will there be 100's of millions of Ernest Hemmingways out there? This all sounds like great and amazing tech.  But until someone can articulate a unique or MUCH BETTER business case for why this will supplant current technology, I think it is DOA.  Call me a troll if you want but I'm just being a realist. Until someone starts posting Unicorn level input devices, I call shennigans on this folding device.  As it is right now, to me it appears to be consumer focused.  That is a non-starter with the rest of the world!  Outside of folks on this site, NO ONE believes that Microsoft will come through at the consumer level.  If this is a Enterprise device, where is the desire by the Enterprise to control phone/data plans?  The Enterprise is probably making money by using a BYOD approach to mobile devices.  An employee has to submit for a reimbursement for their phone & data charges.  The employee has to monitor and administer the device.  The employee has to replace the device.  Someone please tell me why the Enterprise would want to deal with any of this, especially when they get this for free. Rodney, Dan, Jason - Cool tech?  Sure!  But one of you please post a plausable business case for this.  And if you say "moleskine" then I call BS!!!  People won't even spell out words in a 140 character text!  You give them a digital "moleskine" and all of the sudden Nobel level authors are going to come out of the woodwork? If you think that this is some kind of a consumer device, please state why you think the rest of the world will jump on it.  I believe that people will just think, "That hinge is pretty cool but will it hold up?  I'll just wait for Samsung or Apple to come up with something.  I know it is serious business for the consumer once they jump on it." If you think that this is some kind of Enterprise device, please state what productivity you think will be increased, how Enterprise users will interact with the device and most importantly what is the business case for the Enterprise to move from a BYOD policy.
  • Well, since you said so... You're just a troll... But, I wouldn't have called you a troll because you explained your opinion without trolling.. So, whatever.
    ..............
    My best advice for you would be to not buy such a device, and stop being so upset that some will, some might, and some might want one. You really let the desires of others ruin your day, and that's just odd.
  • If this is a Enterprise device, where is the desire by the Enterprise to control phone/data plans?  The Enterprise is probably making money by using a BYOD approach to mobile devices.  An employee has to submit for a reimbursement for their phone & data charges.  The employee has to monitor and administer the device.  The employee has to replace the device.  Someone please tell me why the Enterprise would want to deal with any of this, especially when they get this for free
    BYOD doesn't mean employees have to pay for their devices. It means they get to choose them. My wife is exec at a multi-national and I run a small biz w/ a "foundation" account on ATT, and that's how we run it, too: employee chooses device, we pay. If a device seems useful, we want our people to use it for greater productivity. 
  • Michael Bromley, This doesn't sound like a BYOD approach.  It sounds like a Corporate owned device that you and your wife get to select. Congrats on having your business and your wife's being picked up by your respective companies.  However as I said, this isn't a BYOD approach that most of the rest of the world gets to enjoy.
  • Because Google used their monopolies to kill it off. With their monopolies in online searching, advertisement, mobile usage and media consumption they can easily manipulate their search results to hide competing products or articles of a certain type. They have done it before and have been caught doing it on several occasions. Windows was successful over Macs because Microsoft bought program suites and made them exclusive to their platform. They made enough essential software exclusive to their platform so that consumers couldn't choose anything else, that made it worthless to develop for anything else. This is the same thing Google is trying to do today with their platforms. Apps aren't important. Apps are entertainment. People want to be entertained and this is what has killed the smartphone as a work tool. This is why the development of smartphones have basically stalled entirely and nowadays it is mostly just a game of bumping numbers up a notch every year. This is also why work is carried out on a seperatate device. You don't have to eliminate any input type with any of these devices as the platform Microsoft is building is more modern than the platforms that you use in your pocket. They have support for both legacy and future (gaze, vr/mr/ar) interaction models. Apps is meant to make limited platforms somewhat useful. App-to-app usage is basically what we used to do with our computers until Windows 3.1. It is basically like Apple and Google shot us back to the 80¨s and are now desperately trying to keep you back. This dysfunctional team has inspired an entire world of developers on several occasions. Before they released their forst design language (metro)... Apple and Google-phones looked horrible ui-wise. Look at them now. True PC's were either laptops or desktops... Now there's a myriad of form factors... They started dabbling with Mixed Reality (ar/vr), look at what everyone is doing today. They are inspiring others... Just like Nadella has said since he took the helm. Don't be so limited in your mind. Try to expand it a little from your box of (notso)smartphone. What input interface would make things easier. You either hold your hand with one hand and do a little finger dance with the other, or you try to use it with one hand and basically break your thumb in the process. What would make it better? That is where Microsoft are. The business case is that it can be used for business. Which is something dumbphones can't. A dumbphone is made to entertain you, the way it requires you to interact with it just makes it so dumb it makes it basically impossible to use in any sensible way.  What you are calling unicorn level input devices is what Microsoft is experimenting right now. I know it will feel funny when you put your dumbphone down and figure out that it is a very limiting device and instead use something that can be used for more than one thing at a time... But it will just be smart. Microsoft has already come through on the consumer level. Enterprises doesn't have to control phone/data-plans, and even if they do... Why would it be any difference from what they are already doing? Windows devices is much better when it comes to network administration either way, so it would make it easier for them. Employee's have to replace two devices today. Why wouldn't the enterprise want to cut their device count in half and still raise productivity? The business case is that it will be better at productivity than dumbphones, and it will be small enough to be pocketable. It will also make calls. Microsoft doesn't care about the rest of the world. They are leaders, not followers. They make devices with unique properties which fulfill tasks that current devices aren't very good at. You can wait for Samsung and Apple to copy the form factor, but they have nothing on the ecosystem and nothing on the interaction models. It will just be another dumb device... Knowing these two companies, the device will probably also be dependant on you having one of their other devices to even work. That's their business model. I don't know why you think enterprises must decide if they want this device or BYOD. This device would also work under a BYOD-model since... This would be the device you would like to bring.
  • What is this new input you speak of? Are stylus suddenly new?!
  • > If that were the case then
    > why didn't W10M make it.
    Is Win10M the antique Win10 mobile?
    It didn't work because it's doesn't really belong to Win10 family.
  • W10M didn't make it because there wasn't developer interest. However, there is A LOT of interest for the "full" version of Windows 10. The entire point of UWP is about getting rid of full (or PC) and mobile versions of Windows. There won't be any versions of Windows, there will simply be Windows. What about this aren't you understanding?
  • Trolls, and the ignorant alike, will never realize one thing.... With this small Surface Device Microsoft is only making yet another PC form factor for those who may want it..... Take it or leave it.
    .........
    If you've never questioned the many PC form factors to come in the last 30 years why question this one?... Because it can fit in your pocket and many have telephony capabilities?... Well, if you question this one because of that you're an idiot.
  • You don't question the useability of Windows on a 7" screen? There have been 7" devices available with Windows for years. Why haven't they caught on? Why aren't people being productive on them today? It is easy. Windows does not have the software to be productive on a 7" screen. Even if it can fold in half, it doesn't matter. The software just isn't there and Microsoft doesn't seem to be dedicated to bringing the software to Windows.
  • You mean those cheap looking, low quality small thingy that has no sim, no ARM cpu?
  • Wooooow I thought you were dead..haven't seen a comment for you in a while. If I were you I'd wait to comment till it's released. Funny wp biggest fanboy disapears so we can't say told ya so only to show up again when the times right.....can you now admit Ms screwed us wp fans or you gonna just hand us your usual fanboy dribble.?
  • Fan boy dribble... Sorry troll.
    If you don't like it you can go cry about fans elsewhere. If not, then what's your point?...
    Answer that. What's your point?
  • No answer as usual... If you can't back up your point what's your point in the first place... Exactly; nothing.
  • My point???? Ms screwed wp fans period. They COULD have done something...anything. They gave up on bridges, they could have made them work. The also could of intergrated xbox ( showed they were playing halo at one time on a wp phone)..They gave up on fixing continum because there rebooting again....Ms was lazy. Listen I owned a 820 numerous 1520s a 950xl and the alcetel. Yes i also want an x86 phone I even tried a zenphone 2 with crossover emulation cause it has an intel chip to run x86 programs....didnt really work. Ms also could of either worked with intel more or made there own damn chip its Microsoft.  They aslo could have done a duel boot device...look up HGOLE GOLE1 its a 5inch dual boot w10 andriod marshmello works perfect almost size of a phone little thicker due to lan port. It has a battery only thing it dosnt have is phone...it was $150 ebay.....another option MS had.
  • Touché touché... I agree... But, that was the past, and we gotta move on. MS has done good with Surface, and that's what we gotta go on.. After all, what else can we do, and if we've already discounted the device what point of talking about it?... Either buy one, or not. Or wait and see what happens before you buy. Simple.
  • define fanboy
  • Amen. Far too many fanboys throwing their toys out of the pram.
  • I am so glad that I upset you so much that I constantly see my name in your comments... You're my biggest fan😍😍😍😍
  • I read about that in the future also the concept of app will change... like appen to the web, where you can build a site with 3 simple click, we will able to "develop" an application in the same way for a mobile phone. This application will run on all device without any compatibily issue...  I don't know if is this Andromeda but I'm sure that Microsoft is looking to the future the current mobile market is lost...
  • I don't expect dual-screen phones to have much impact on the market... until Apple and Samsung release something similar.  It just seems rather niche. Sorry, but Microsoft blew it in mobile.
  • This is not a phone, dual screen or otherwise. It is a not-Phone and as such will not be competing with anything from Samsung or Apple.
  • That was the argument Nokia made when they chose Windows Phone. It wasn't Android or iOS so they weren't competing with them. How true was that?
  • Turns out they were competing with Microsoft's 'management' team though, which was a losing battle.
  • Usecases define who you are competing with, not the label you put on a device. 2in1 is not a new market, it's just a more refined laptop and is competing with normal laptops. A pocket device with telephony will compete with other devices with telephony ie iphones and androids. It doesn't matter if it can be used also as a PC continuum, albeit less powerful, could already enable you to do that and it did not create a new market. The competition is android and iphones denying that is being in denial.
  • Your last sentence is a tautology.
  • So Paolo, the addition of telephony doesn't inherently make it a competitor to iphones and Android phones. You leap to the fact that it has telephony to therefore it is a phone competitor. Let's back it up a bit. The device is likely going to be uniquely positioned as a pocket sized PC with an inking focus. It is from this perspective I believe there is value in looking at this first. Don't move to the telephony aspects yet, that's secondary. Now, I'm not saying this is a slam dunk for Microsoft. It has a challenge in making a case for this device type, size and focus. But as a Windows 10 PC, with the full range of Windows PC capabilities, it's a PC with a unique form factor and inking focus. Now, with the addition of telephony, this uniquely positioned and uniquely designed PC now has communication capabilities that the always-connected, longer batter life, instant on cellular PCs that will precede it don't have. But just as cellular PC's are not positioned as phone competitors in thier current state ADDING telephony to cellular PCs doesn't make them iPhone and Android competitors either. It simply makes them voice-capable cellular PCs using e-sim, which is essentially what the device described here is. Now, long term, as I have described in the past. I do think this us a subtle, "side door" where MS is veeeeery sloowly, introducing a device category, pocketable, telephony enabled PCs where users have greater control of there connectivity through purchasing via the Store, that it hopes will change things in the looooonnng run. PCs aren't going anywhere. But they are changing form. MS and others are betting on convergence. This is Microsoft's play. Apple and Google have thier own. Burnt right now, in the short term, these generation 1 devices are not being positioned as iPhone and Android phone competitors. But the very early steps into a new always connected, telephony enabled pocketable PC category, where PC focused and inking tasks will be positioned at the forefront and telephony secondary.
  • If it has telephony and pocketable, it is a phone. Therefore Microsoft is gonna compete, which means they will lose.
  • No, this is not just a phone. 
  • My watch has telephony and is pocketable. It's definitely not a phone. Please stop with absolute statements. They're rarely accurate.
  • That’s a good point.  Whatever Microsoft calls it, they better get the branding right.  If this mobile device succeeds, you can expect a new and improved version every year for the next 15 years. No pressure Microsoft /S
  • Microsoft might have blown it in the phone market, but they are very relevant when it comes to mobile. I think Google and Apple have just made people forget what being mobile really is all about and made us satisfied with the "smart"phones that require individual apps for each individual task.
  • Windows 10 can do a lot more than you can do on your dumphone... At the same time.
  • I agree. People can bend words and twist definitions all they want; a small mobile device that can make phone calls will be competing directly with smartphones, and a device with two separate displays ZTE Axon M style will find little user interest, full Windows 10 or not. They'll have to 1) produce a single foldable screen, preferably with three segments West World style, and 2) make it run standard programs as snappy as a mid range i3 powered laptop. It needs to compete with laptops to be relevant, because it needs to replace them; people won't rely on three devices, so it'll have to replace their smartphone or their laptop, and we all know which is more likely, at least in the short run...
  • What's wrong with Niche?
  • How did you miss the fact that Microsoft has laid the groundwork for a device agnostic present/future? It's here now and is being refined via Andromeda/One Core/CShell. Have you seen what they've done with .NET core and PowerShell Core; both open source and cross platform? The UWP and XAML make it possible for application UIs to adapt to device types and screen sizes. Microsoft's support of ARM devices opens a new playing field. Their goal is to support Windows on everything. There will no longer be a need for Windows Mobile, just Windows.
  • You don't understand. The strength of Windows Mobile was UWP. It was still compatible with their platform. Killing Windows Mobile killed UWP. See the Starbucks article from today as an example.
  • Killing Windows Mobile didn't kill UWP. Neither WM nor UWP were alive at any point in their "life".
    Why do you keep sounding like WM was such a giant thing that was "helping" UWP? UWP is simply the next version of APIs Microsoft has designated for its Windows family of OS; WM was such an insignificant part that its existence or abolishment doesn't make the smallest difference in the life of UWP. If UWP is easy to develop and opens up possibilities compared to classic Win32, it will be a hit. Otherwise something like WM wasn't going to help it one bit.
  • I don't know why you spread this when you have no clue what you are typing. UWP is platform and input agnostic. That is the strength of UWP. Not the garbage you posted after you puked on your keyboard.
  • Whats wrong with UWP? It pretty much sucks for any desktop related developement but for mobile apps it is just ok. For desktop we have .Net/WPF or optionally C/Win32 and for mobile UWP.
  • "If they have any dedication to such a device, why kill Windows 10 Mobile?" Probably because Mobile comes with its own legacy: 32-bit architecture only, the moving gears update mechanism, the shell, silverlight apps. The change to a 64-bit architecture alone would likely take so long as to not make the SKU worth maintaining, especially when desktop Windows already has a fully functional 64-bit version, albeit an x86-64 one. Couple that with the legacy Silverlight apps being 32-bit only and the industry as a whole moving to a 64-bit paradigm, it seems like it'd be a lose-lose situation no matter which decision Microsoft would choose regarding Windows 10 Mobile and its legacy apps.
  • Because WinPhone doesn't run apps that runs on Win10PC, Win10S. And there's chicken (users) & egg (apps, devs) loop, simple logic. If WinPhone survived from day 1...
    Programmers'll all have to code for iOS, Android, Win10 (PC, S, Xbox, IOT, AR and MR) and WinPhone.
    Thank god... now we only have to code for iOS, Android and Win10 (PC, S, ARM, Xbox, IOT, AR and MR).
  • I'm gonna buy this if it comes out with top hardware, but I'm still skeptical and will keep my android close in case it flops :) but a productivity device on the windows platform is what I'm after! It just needs to be so bad ass that developers will be interested.. keeping my hopes up!
  • Thumbs up, but just a few questions.
    Why would you not keep your Android device?... What would this device have to do with your Android device? What's the connection?
  • I will abandon smart phones entirely because once I have a pocketable tablet that does not need to teather to a phone to connect to the net, a smart phone will serve no purpose for me. I may get a dumb phone, I may not bother. But I will drop smart phones with glee.
  • Of course some of us will not need a smartphone.. After all, a Surface device with telephony is just like a Lumia with full applications.. We're halfway there, and know how to deal with not having apps... If anything, we will be gaining more complete functionality, features, apps, and also those specialized apps MS is rumored to be developing for this specific device... As full featured as full Windows 10 is, I don't see what's so smart about a smartphone at that point.
  • Hope you're right on this one buddy. My credit card is ready lol. Although I do have hesitations about jumping on version 1.0 of this folding device, look at the jump the surface made from the 2 to 3.
  • That has always been my point.. Version 1 might be cool, but most likely will be a little iffy.. But, the prospects of a version 2, or 3, sounds very very interesting.
  • Like how Win10M improved on Windows Phone 8 improved on Windows Phone 7.
  • You troll, but I awnser your pathetic ass anyways...
    ........
    No, like how the SP2 improved over the SP1, and how the SP3 improved over the SP2, and how the SP4 improved over the SP3, and how the SPro improved over the SP4,,,, and how EVERY Surface product to date has improved over it's predecessor...... Now, I see it really pathetic that you didn't use that as your example, mainly because you wouldn't have had a point. But seeing as how I just checked you your point is even more idiotic, and severely invalid... Even worse, it would take an idiot to disagree that if Surface products have improved with every new generation, then we should expect this one to as well....
    At this point you'd be best keeping your troller shut, because right now you're looking pathetically bad.... You can't look any worse than you do now, but, I'm sure you'll attempt to prove me wrong.
  • Wait, so W10M didn't improve on WP8 & WP8 didn't improve on WP7...? I thought it did but whatever, half your gibberish is unintelligible anyway. Too cool for spellcheck 😎
  • Just like I thought. You would open your mouth, make ZERO point, and look foolish for the 455k time. Putting words in peoples mouths, then rating about that, just makes you look pathetic.
    ...........
    And, just to entertain your ignorance... In my opinion, hell no, W10M, or the 950/XL wasn't an overall improvement than WP8.1, and previous hardware.. You're the only child arguing about that with yourself.... The point that you could never perceive in that head of yours is,,,, what does WM10, and Lumia, have to do with W10, and Surface?..... Ummmmmmmmmm ok. Open your mouth again, and show us how low you can keep going. Go ahead 🤓🤓🤓🤓
    And, nobody gives a damn about your stupid spell check shots. Weak try. Stay on topic, and if you don't have anything real to come back with keep your trolling mouth shut... But, we'll see.
  • I don't open my mouth when I type, if you do that's fine, we all have to breathe somehow I suppose (this is a not so subtle way to imply you breathe through your mouth). Also, you're hardly in a position to ask for people stay on topic... I mean, really? Your schtick is so tired but I guess I have to give you credit for maintaining it. Seems exhausting to me, always flying off the handle and being incoherent. Whatever floats that boat of yours.
  • Agree with you there W10M and 950xl were both a step back. The 1520 (still have it and refuse to throw it away) was the best windows phone I used.
  • 1520..
  • It really needs three screens, one on the front so it can be used folded, then when you open it up it becomes more of a current surface screen shape, not a square shape, but maybe that's asking too much just yet.    
  • Interesting enough, that's exactly the form factor of the device used in Westworld. That unit is remarkable similar to the patents that has surfaced (pun intended...) the last year or so. I think it's not to far fetched that Microsoft is involved in that and doing some kind of sublime marketing research to get reactions. http://westworld.fm/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/themaze-1024x576.png
  • "Microsoft" and "sublime market research" are two completely incompatible concepts. Almost as bad as "effective marketing"...!
  • What if it's like some 2in1s where you can folder it backwards as well?
  • Bobvfr: If you paid attention to the patent drawings you would know that it folds both ways, so you can have screens facing either in or out when folded.
  • I will have someone buy me this for the 2018 Christmas!
  • Hope you're right on this.
  • Coming Soon™
  • Otherwise it would already be out... What company isn't working on products that are coming soon?
  • What's he gonna say when It's here?
  • I don't think we'll have that problem.
  • No, you DO think we'll have that problem. Your corny trolling suggest otherwise, and shows ZERO confidence in what you just claim.. Try rolling someone else who can't see through your BS. I mean, otherwise, what reason would you be here?... Go ahead, admit that there's an even more pathetic reason you're here. Let's hear it. ❓❓❓❓❓
  • On the off chance no one has told you, you overuse the word troll. Like, excessively. To the point of distraction. Anyways, no I dont think this device should be released anytime soon. I think the hardware needs to shrink further & display tech needs to improve before it becomes feasible. Not to mention the hinge & the weaknesses it brings to the device. I don't see how it can get close to the full day of battery life people would want without being overly heavy for a pocket & if it's not pocketable, what's the point? Unless there's some breakthrough tech they're keeping under wraps it'll be a good 5-10 years before something like this is ready, and by then who knows what other advances might render this design obsolete? Oh sorry, logic=trolling in your bananaland, apologies.
  • You know I'm not gonna read all that BS.... But, you know I'm gonna keep calling you a troll because that's what you are. What else are you???????
    You've got to have lost your mind. What's wrong with you? Answer that.
  • Yes, I can see how questioning battery life & the rate of hinge failure could be interpreted as BS & me losing my mind. Thanks for pointing that out.
  • For someone who calls people a Troll in almost every comment you post Rodney, you really do fit the bill better than anyone In Internet slang, a troll (/troʊl, trɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3]often for the troll's amusement.
  • All of MS preparation starting with clouds, 2 in 1, continuum point to this event.  One device to carry all day.  
  • It will be welcomed for sure but it won't be the device of Windows phone fans dreams when they still need to carry a separate Android or iPhone for all their essential apps that will still be missing like they were on Windows mobile.
  • As long as people are happy about using an app for each individual task, sure.
  • This.. I have never really understood why we have to have an app for everything?? Why not just a seriously optimized web app (progressive) which also would "work" offline.. in my mind the whole app frenzy is just a slow progress to web apps where a specific platform isn't needed..
    After Apple invented the app store and brainwashed every person on this planet to think it was fantastic, we have really gone down a road that isn't very clever!
    I'm developing a web app right now that works just the same no matter what platform people are coming from, and in my mind the best solution for the consumer..
    Hopefully pwa will save us all..
  • Apple tried web apps first. The original iPhone didn't have an app store, they envisioned everything being a web app. People just flocked to the app store when it was released.
  • What? No... Web apps has been around since the 90's. Seriously...
  • apple have never invented anything mobile (ipod saved company Imo)& certainly not an online store! nokia Ovi.com ring  any bells
  • I've not needed an Android mess or a boring iPhone yet, so why the sudden need for one when I have a Surface not-Phone? You make no sense. And for those that need Snapchat for some reason, Blue stacks has that covered. Not that I have a need for that, so it's hardly one of those 'essentials' you speak of which I can assure you are far from essential.
  • Banking apps are few and far between now and I'm pretty sure they're classed as essential these days. Same with Contactless payments which isn't supported for 99% of us on Windows, Google apps have been missing for how long now? People like having the best fitness apps on their phones too but that won't be happening on the foldable device not that you could use take it running with you etc anyway with its form factor when a phone would be.
    And BlueStacks? Really? It's a laggy mess and hardly a real world solution for apps that aren't covered by Windows
  • Blue stacks is a laggy mess, as is Android. I don't use it but some like that kind of thing. I don't think this is a jogging partner, but Fitbit covers those things for the joggers. Not my bag either. As far as banking is concerned, I tend to find a cash point does for me most of the time and I do the rest of my remote banking via my PC with ease. I expect any not-Phone would be as capable as my PC in that regard. If not, that could be an issue. I don't expect a problem though.
  • MS marketing: Are you sedentary? Do you hate banking? Already have a PC with a web browser? Then we have the device for you!
  • I can do banking on all my devices. Contactless payments is handled by the nfc-chip in my debit card. Google apps are not missing. We are lucky Google was trying to kill the platform by shutting it out. There are several fitness apps on there. So your dream world is working on an Android computer, answering calls in your android-device, driving to work in your android-car, living in your android-house? Well, that sounds horrible. You should start by reading what you have accepted that Google does to you.
  • These days people expect their mobile device to do more not less Giddora. My phone replaced my contactless debit card as my main method of payment around 2 years ago. Why carry 2 things when one can do the same job and a whole lot more? Your way of thinking is that this new device should do less than current phones but cost around double. That's great thinking right there
  • He makes plenty of sense; if my 950XL hadn't been busted almost a year ago, I wouldn't have been using an Android device now, but MS decided to drop their smartphone line, so I can't buy a new one even if I'd chosen to ignore the fact that app support is drying out quickly...
  • Has bluestacks improved radically over the past couple of years? Because last time I tried it on my Surface Pro 3, I could have grilled steaks on the screen.
  • Lol 😂
  • No. You can probably install Bluestacks and run all the Android apps you want just like on the PC.
  • Yes.... Badly
  • I'll believe it when I see a product on a shelf in London, UK (that would be an instant buy for me) and not from a video taken inside Microsoft store in the US.  
  • The Ad for this should be Panos Panay handing the device to Jason Ward, and Jason getting on his knees, kissing the device and saying "I told you there was a God".
  • Yes, I'm sure a folding mini tablet is truly that important to him...
  • Such a device is for Windows fans only. Windows makes sense on a large(r) screen with KB/M and occasional touch input, anything smaller and the preferred device will be a large screened smartphone. Nothing on Windows is optimized for screens below 12" so what exactly would be the appeal as a mobile device to he average user?
  • So, what's your point, and why does that upset you? Answer that.
  • Excuse my ignorance, but pretty much any UWP app, which is available for Windows Mobile does support the typical phone form factor...
  • We, the fans, may be excited to see such a device, but it may not be enough to bring us back right away. Proof of commitment from MS and developers will help determine the outcome of that over time. Now, I realize these are just patents and prototype models, but this device will have to be super thin. Otherwise, it will be rather thick when folded to take advantage of the telephony features. Will it be a twist and fold device to help protect the other screen, when being used as a phone? I'm curious to see where it goes.
  • We will see. Only time will tell.
  • I'm still dreaming.
  • Unfortunately, with US patent laws the way they are, applying for a patent, and creating a product based on it are not one and the same.
  • Watch it run Android 🤣
  • Possibly
  • Apps???
  • None
  • Ok.. So, we will still need another phone. Like my Note 8 to carry in addition to this. Well, it seems Windows Phone fans will have absolutely nothing to look forward to.
  • If it doesn't interest you then why are you worried about it? To troll?
    Answer that.
  • It will probably have the same apps as a proper computer, so around 10 million apps.
  • Exactly
  • no apps, but all the APPLICATIONS that run on a PC.  Look at how the Surface Pro competes against the iPad Pro
  • I dont understand this confusion with mobile devices term? with Microsoft definition even laptops are mobiles Mobile is phone anything else than a phone is either tablet, mini tablet or wearable as smart watch, smart glasses etc. since this thing is not a phone and cant replace a phone it will compete with tablets only. If you will still need a phone beside this (tablet) then very few will be interested in buying this let alone the game changer delusion. Mobiles will live longer than PCs by the way so keep dreaming Microsoft guys.    
  • Or... a not-Phone!
  • That's a fair point. I can call using Skype from my laptop, Surface, or tablet which are all mobile in nature. That doesn't mean I don't need a phone. This device should be able to replace a phone or else it is a niche product. If this is the case, then the fear is that MS might not support for long, just like W10M, Band, Groove, etc. This is my worry. I wish I didn't have that worry as I would love this IF it could replace my Android phone. Unfortunately, since having to convert back to Android from WinMobile due to the death of W10M, I now rely on many apps thoughout my daily routine. I won't give up apps because a device folds. I have a Surface, a desktop, and a laptop. They all serve a function and none of them replace my phone.
  • It all hinges on the hinge (excuse the pun) and how seamless the screen integration is, all the other hardware is already there.
  • Limited market at best.
  • This. It'll be overkill for a phone & underwhelming as a PC. For some it'll get just enough of both right to be useful, but not a mainstream device. Maybe in another decade or so as the hardware shrinks & screens improve.
  • "This device via UWP and Continuum would also be a phone, PC and replace a tablet." This helps explain why Microsoft change the Surface Pro tag from "The tablet to replace your laptop", to "The Ultimate Laptop"    
  • As much as I want it to be. I don't think so.
  • I've switched to android a few months ago and I'm not really happy about but tell you what... If I see an actual focus on their mobile device, I'll consider it. Otherwise I've been betrayed.
  • uhm.. isn't Moleskine an Italian BRAND NAME for notebooks and not the actual object? Why WC (Rubino in particular and obviously others) keeps using the word Moleskine as its a thing and not a name by Italian manufacturer? Why not use the words "notepad", "diary" or whatever? I guess that's the american way - everything shoud have a marketing/brand name. Do you call your TV, "my Panasonic"? WTF
  • Because MS used the name....
  • Its like saying "I need a Kleenex", or (many years ago) "why dont you just tape that TV show and watch it later?"
    Soon, "Tape it" became "TiVO it", regardless of the device actually recording the show.
    And when it comes to drinks, Coke became the go-to word for ordering a brown soda, regardless of whether the place carried Pepsi, RC cola, or any other soda. Branding is a real thing.. and many times the first thing to market is what wins.
     
  • but you do use kleenex to wipe your nose, you do Xerox papers to copy them and put pampers on a baby.... so moleskine  is a generic term in the same way
  • Hi reomw, the reason I use the term Moleskine (which I know is a brand name), is because that's how Panos Panay referred to his Surface Mini which he uses as a digital notepad in the Wired interview I referenced. He deliberately makes that reference to hammer home the digital notepad position of the Surface Mini he uses, and it is in part upon that basis of that reference that I use the term in this context when referencing his statement.
  • So if Panos and Microsoft say something obviously wrong and stupid without any sense, you just repeat without even think? Interesting. Guess what Moleskine being just another one among hundreds of journal manufacturers out there, even myself using a beautiful one from the local bookstore that is by Sunflower. What now? Why we don't call this device Sunflower?
  • Microsoft is about to demonstrate the difference between tactical and strategic thinking. 
  • If they release one buy it quick before it's killed because there's nothing to make it a successful smartphone. It's the same old Store-y over and over with nothing to change the results. 
  • "there's nothing to make it a successful smartphone"..
    .....
    Finally, someone who gets it.
  • If this device comes out I would most likely be trying one out.... If anyone else doesn't think this is a good device they probably should not try one out.. Just like every product on the market. End of story.
  • One question does third party get access to windows one core software?
  • OEM'S, or developers?
  • I will believe this hype when something actually materialises. Microsoft isn't a company I feel has alot of skill with executing ideas.
  • With Satya in charge, of course not! Enough said!
  • As I've been saying for awhile now, Microsoft is all over the place. They still lack direction, focus and any coherent thought process.. (see band, windows mobile, zune , groove, Xbox strategy) even if this does materialize in 2018, it will be a throw it at the wall and see if it sticks endeavor.
  • Of course it is a good thing to see Microsoft developing new products but if they kill Windows10 mobile prematurely , they will be out of the mobile business for good. Remember Nokia and their burning platform (Symbian) . Besides people are still buying lumias worldwide.
  • This is the same thing that happened with Windows Mobile 6. They killed it before they released Windows Phone. It was a dumb move.
  • We won't see this device this year.
  • No, we won't see this device in 2017(this year)😜
  • Are you traveling through space to earth?
  • Another foolish move by MS strategists. Windows Mobile in it's present form could still survive if MS could use Good marketing. I'm not at all hopeful for this form of device catching on.. With windows s aka rt.
  • Unbelievable how it seems so difficult for most people to understand the difference between a phone that can run apps and a pocketable PC that can make phone calls. I have two devices right now which I use almost everyday - a SP3 and an Android phone. The SP3 is for Visual Studio and SharePoint Designer at work which, obviously I can't do on the Android phone. At home, I use it for watching videos, and sometimes, checking and answering emails, listening to music, Twitter, Instagram, a game or two. This is what it's used for most of the time. The Android phone is mainly for calling my friends and family, taking photos and/or videos, music (Spotify), and reading while travelling between home and work. At home, I sometimes use it to check my emails, reading, Twitter, Instagram. There certainly are overlaps in the usage of the two devices but there are the obvious differences. SP3 for Visual Studio and SharePoint Designer. Android phone for making phone calls and taking photos and videos. IF this rumored device, which will obviously run WoA, will be able to run Visual Studio, make phone calls and take photos/videos, can it replace my SP3 and Android phone? ABSOLUTELY! So why is it so difficult for people to see the value of this rumored device? I understand those asking about the apps but this doesn't seem to be targetting consumers but business people. What I don't understand are asking what will be the benefit for businesses. Just trolling or what?
  • Because, they are too stuck on the world of the smartphone to open their eyes to new concepts..... And, the others are trolling, so you know they can't see anything.
  • Anything that an Android would do for you, not for me. Didn't you read what I use my Android phone for?
  • 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
  • Because your Android device has all the banking apps you need but neither your Surface nor the new pocketable Surface device have them. And banking apps are simply a clear example, there are tons of apps your Android has that the new device won't have. As another example, there is no Uber (Snapp and Tap30 replacements in Iran where I live) for Windows and those are needed DAILY.
  • Why do you think my use case is the same as yours? I do my online banking in both my SP3 and my Android phone. I don't care about Uber as I don't use it. I've clearly stated what I use my devices for. A pocketable PC will be perfect for me. It may not be perfect for you as a consumer but it is for me as an Enterprise user. Dont care about your Snapp and Tap30 (what are they?). As I've said, MS doesn't seem to be targeting consumers with this device. Why are you thumbing it down for me and for all others who will have the same use case? 
  • Because this:
    "IF this rumored device, which will obviously run WoA, will be able to run Visual Studio, make phone calls and take photos/videos, can it replace my SP3 and Android phone? ABSOLUTELY!" Sounded like you were making a prediction about how the market will react. If you mean to say you personally can replace the devices...well, no one cares about you personally. The correct analysis, based on what I said about apps, would be:
      "IF this rumored device, which will obviously run WoA, will be able to run Visual Studio, make phone calls and take photos/videos, can it replace my SP3 and Android phone? ABSOLUTELY NOT!" Most people would want those apps so yeah. You might be part of a niche market segment that actually can replace their Surface and Android with the new device, but you will remain a niche.
  • READ again... "IF this rumored device, which will obviously run WoA, will be able to run Visual Studio, make phone calls and take photos/videos, can it replace MY SP3 and Android phone? ABSOLUTELY!"
  • All we have is some patents but you can already tell who the target audience is? The only reason you are saying it's not targeting consumers is because you know it doesn't stand a chance in that market. And when consumers are out we just make it a business device as some kind of fallback. But that won't make any difference. Businesses need apps on their devices just the same as consumers. MS has already tried positioning Windows 10 Mobile as an enterprise solution. And it failed miserably. So STOP to think of businesses as some kind of safe harbor for MS should they fail with consumers. That ship has sailed. As for the value of this device: it will be a poor replacement for your SP3 (it will have neither the necessary screensize or power to run something like Visual Studio on it) and it will be a poor replacement of your Android phone due to the complete lack of apps. You tell me why I should see value in something that replaces other things badly. As for "the difference between a phone that can run apps and a pocketable PC that can make phone calls":
    1) Nobody cares about these stupid made-up definitions. The fact that it has to be repeated again and again in the comments on THIS site that this will be a "not-phone", should be a clear sign already on how difficult it will be to convince the "regular people" out there.
    2) There's no indication whatsoever that MS will market this as a PC. Any such attempt just smells like a desperate move to avoid comparisons that are inevitable anyway. And it's not even sure that this Andromeda OS will come with Win32 support. There's a good chance that it won't. Then what? My advice to MS is: you want to sell this concept as a PC? Then just make a Surface with 10 to 12 inch screen that can fold. Basically, remake the Surface 3 into a foldable low-end version of the Surface Pro. Such a device would make sense to me. Anything with a mobile form factor and phone support is just wishful thinking that Windows Phone can be reborn by disguising itself as something that it isn't. If the new device has the size of a smartphone and comes with phone support, it WILL be compared with current smartphones. In a world dominated with clickbait headlines like "is X the Y killer?", there's NO escaping that. And no amount of calling people trolls all over the internet will change this.
  • All the wrong things here mate. First of all, don't put words in my mouth. I never said it is for business people. I said "it seems to be targetting business people" with all these rumours. And in whatever way do you have the right to tell me what is a good replacement for my Android phone and what is bad? The same way iPhone or Android users say WP users made a stupid choice for going with Windows phones? What made you think I use Visual Studio in a small SP3 screen?  IF any device (presumably tiny), using SD845, can decently run Visual Studio (just like that demo thing which ran Photoshop), why is it going to be a bad replacement for my SP3 again? Lastly, all we have is some patents and you can already tell that "something" is going to fail?
  • I for one really hope this thing is real and will launch in 2018. 
  • Sorry mate. The 'Report' button was just too close to the 'Like' button and I accidentally tapped on it.
  • I miss Windows Phone terribly.
  • 😂😂😂😂😂😂
    Me too... Me too. Lumia 1520 was THE best smartphone ever made in the history of mankind. Red!!
  • the patent shown in this article shows a device that is shaped like s smart phone when folded. perhaps this Min tablet smart phone hybrid will have 2 side by sige 6 inch screens like the nokia 1520.. a 7 inch dual screen tablet can fit into a man's pockets if it has thin side bazels and is thin enough side ways. we will get more info about whether or not it has builtin a cell phone which will make this device unique
  • Still sporting 2 Lumia 1320s, 1 Lumia 920, 1 Lumia 830. One of the 1320s with WP8.1 is my daily driver.
  • Here in my family still 5 in use and no intention to switch the next few years
  • Just give me a 6" mobile PC that can run Visual Studio and take great photos/videos.
  • Keep waiting.. It's coming.
  • I sure hope so...
  • Glad someone stuck with them. No way in Hell will I go back to a MS mobile device. Still same crappy store to bout.
  • Then if they're sticking with mobile devices, they're essentially just doing another reboot with no upgrade functionality for current-generation devices. I just don't trust them anymore
  • There are no "current generation devices". They all old and their OS is discontinued.
  • It seems like a pipe dream to me. Correct me if I am wrong but MS isn't the only company with a folding (or flexible) screen patent? How long, provided this comes to fruition (market,) that a competing product perceived as better (albeit not in actuality e.g. ipod anyone?) comes along and takes the marketplace by storm? How successful will DeX be when compared to Continum? In my opinion there will only be a brief period of time to gain traction with the user base before another "look what I can do better" product comes along. This will be viewed as a mobile device competing with the likes of Android and iPhone merely because it is from those who brought you Windows Mobile/Windows Phone. How many users laugh at the platform yet never used it? I see it as an uphill battle. Numerous times MS have made promising things that worked much better for us that fail ultimately due to lack of adoption. I refuse to hold my breath again. I would love to have a device that caters to my needs and brings back the things I have taken for granted going back to WinPho, but I am enough of a realist to know holding out and hoping usually leads down a path of extreme disappointment.
  • They are betting on Windows, something others don't have. There are already pocket sized iOS and Android devices but there is no truly pocket sized Windows device. We've been waiting for a full fledged OS on a small device for years now and no one has considered it except for Microsoft. So we're hoping they come out with a device...that won't rock the market at all. But it would be a fun and functional device for folks like us who hang out here.
  • In case you guys have not noticed. MS is letting go of their own OS and have begun making better products for competing OS. My guess is that Nadella has not only decided on abandoning windows mobile, I think they have decided that windows is not worth keeping alive in the long run either. I can't think of any other reason why they would release office for Chromebook while they are in the middle of getting windows 10s pc's to replace chrome books. Anyways, this whole thing with windows mobile has convinced me to look elsewhere for the sw I use for my business, whereas before I would have ordered everything MS without thinking about it.
  • There's at least one gaping hole in the theory that rather than having a mobile-specific OS, Microsoft can instead scale Windows down to a mobile-sized device... the mobile apps people USE don't exist on Windows either. I am a bona fide Windows loyalist. Had Windows Mobile 6.5, Windows Phone 7.0/7.1/8.0/8.1 and I'm currently running Windows Mobile 10 on a Lumia 650. Have at least a half-dozen Windows PCs/tablets in my house. I'm a software developer, and have 2 iPhones, 2 iPads and 2 Android devices for mobile development. I'm acutely aware of the "app gap" for Windows Mobile 10, but since I spend so much of my day in front of a computer, I've never felt the "pain" of that app gap, because all I wanted in a mobile device was reliable email & calendar, and a handful of productivity apps. However, I recently went to Disneyland in California with my family. Navigating the Disneyland park without the Disneyland app would have been SO painful, but lucky for me, I hadn't taken my work backpack out of the car, and so had my work iOS and Android devices with me. The Disneyland app is one of the best unique value proposition apps I've ever come across, especially with Disney MaxPASS. My wife and I used two iPhones for 3 days solid JUST for the app, using our matching Lumia 650s for everything else. In a world where Windows Mobile 10 doesn't exist, we would still have needed an Android or iOS device to navigate the parks this way - what good would a handheld PC be, when there is no web app or desktop app for what we need? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a device as powerful as a PC in a mobile form-factor, but there are still scenarios where you need to use a Android or iOS app. I'm going to hang on to our Windows Phones for at least another 6 months, but I've already decided that when the time to replace our devices comes, we're getting Android phones. As much as I'd like to remain loyal to Microsoft and the mobile OS I still feel has the best user interface patterns, it's as good as dead to me.
  • This! This is exactly what I'm trying to get through to some people on here. To many, the Surface mobile device or whatever it will be called will be the ultimate mobile device that bridges all Windows mobiles shortcomings. It won't because it will still have the exact same app problem because the same apps are all missing in the Windows Store for PC, Tablet and Mobile. Then people claim they don't need apps. On Windows mobile I had just enough of the apps that matter to me not to frustrate the life out of me but like you occasions would crop up where I'd need a specific app for something but it was never gonna be available for Windows. This will be an enterprise and productivity device so people don't need apps right? It's NOT a phone! I'm sorry but it's a mobile device, about the same size and shape as a phone so propel will naturally still try to use it as their single mobile device. And enterprise users are consumer users too. I don't know anyone who will want to spend well over $1000 for this mobile device and still have to carry an Android or iPhone along with them too.
  • Sorry mate but how many people go to Disneyland and how often?
  • @mandong Come on. Entire Microsoft mobile platforms have been decimated exactly because of the app gap, and you dare come out with "how many people use XYZ"? Don't you understand that Disneyland is an example? He could say "I wanted to use Snapchat" and you'd say "how many people use Snapchat"? Or some banking app? Or Uber? Or a giant number of other apps...and games? Stop with the delusion that apps don't matter. They are the exact reason why there is no Windows Phone anymore.
  • AgentTheGreat, who's is saying this is a mobile phone?  You are. I don't see this rumoured device as a phone. I see it as a real PC. I don't need mobile apps on my PC. Shrink my SP3 to 6" and let me make calls and take great photos with it and I'll get rid of my Android phone.
  • Too little too late.
  • Not buying into that rollercoaster again unless it runs a true windows 10 or android.
  • No no don't try to convince us this is the game changer and something we always wanted. All we want was(& is) a simple phone running windows 10 mobile. Great build like we always had, and the camera too. We wanted what Nokia was already doing. Microsoft tried to fix something which wasn't broken.
  • I really hope this comes to fruition. But they'd need to partner with mobile carriers and allow customers to benefit from similar device financing deals that iPhone and Samsung have with T-Mobile, AT&T, Sprint, etc. More people would turn to Windows devices if they could make monthly payments on windows devices rather than having to pay full price at the time of purchase, or get devices for free with contract. I believe that in part, Windows phone never took off because there were rarely if ever any such carrier financing deals/promotions.
  • The tech doesn't exist to make any sort of "folding device" an acceptable thing.  It simply doesn't.  Aspirations to see something like the things we've seen in various science fiction shows are fine, but most aren't that practical even if they could be created now.  I see little chance that any sort of folding device will grab even the market share that Windows phones did.  Carrying around a tablet is MUCH more functional than any folding device, and an actual smartphone is MUCH more convenient to carry around in all other situations.  Believe me, I'd dearly love to see Windows phones continue, even if it's just a horribly scaled Windows 10 PC-on-a-smartphone.  I just don't see it happening.  The graveyard is littered with far too many "great ideas" Microsoft has had.
  • The short answer to the question in the article title is no. The article is fine. It expands on much of what has been said at Windows Central. However, Windowsphone lovers want a phone not some tablet.  The concept is problematic because the train has already left the station and the device, whatever it may be, is defined by what it isn't. It also may not happen at all. The Surface Mini was built, there were review units, but it stayed in the warehouse. It was not a defining device at a time when the tablet market was flat. The tablet market is still flat. So a new device is probably not going to be a tablet. It won't be a phone because Microsoft had a phone. Phone is failed product in the mind of Microsoft. They deliberately avoid the word phone. Even if it looked like a phone they won't call it that.  It won't be a consumer device. Anything Surface-branded is defined by distinctiveness and price. The price is normally high. So an expensive note-taking device that can make calls. Samsung makes one of those already.  Software for this device is ill-defined. UWP was going to be universal across all devices. UWP today is a disjointed collection of apps where some are made with the win32 bridge, some are web wrappers, some are Windowsphone 8 compliant. The defining feature of UWP today is being distributed via the Store rather than as a single app platform. Mobile apps have left the store on a month by month basis. This week Starbucks app stopped working. The universal app platform of the future seems to be PWA. I guess there is a future there following a standard based system defined largely by Google. However, if Windowsphone fully supported PWA then why not use that.  I think Microsoft's future mobile strategy is primarily apps for other platforms with this "device we don't name" being a limited enterprise outlier. No reason it shouldn't sell a few million. Probably millions less than Windowsphone in markets outside the USA. Its big advantage is it won't be burdened by the word "phone" and Microsoft's iPhone envy. If this device captures 1% of the mobile market then it will be announced as a successful new device category as opposed to Windowsphone, at 10% in Europe, which "failed". A device defined by failure - if it's ever produced.  
  • If I translate your reasoning to the automotive world a Bugatti would never be created, but it  was created.
    and hence the Surface Studio would never have been created but it was created.
    There is a market for people we only want a MS branded "device" with Courier functionality, a full MS Office experience, OneNote tailored to this device with "painting, inking and sketching capabilities" no need for other apps apart from adobe, Corel, Bryce,  Cad. all of this in a pocketable device count me in even at 2k$
  • I think people are having difficulty with this,  1. Windows Mobile isn't needed because this this wiill run full windows.  2. MS isn't going to position this as a phone, it's a computer that can make phone calls. Look for the positioning of this to be an evolution of the surface pro concept.  It's not a phone but will do what the phones do. Do you really want to walk with two devices?  3. Apps are going to be irrellevant. What you can do from your desktop, you can do from your "not phone". 4. MS doesn't actually need to hit this out of the park, it's already been targeted towards the enterprise segment. This is going to be expensive and not for everyone, so don't expect this to suddenly supplant Android or IOS. Expect real traction to start happening around the 3rd iteration.  5.  Specialty apps like Disney, Banks gyms etc. will likely continue only on Android/IOS at first but as this grows (if it grows) they will start coming over.  6. Look for other OEM's to start releasing similar "not phones" in the near future. Surface is always a "proof of concept" brand. These may be more consumer targeted.    7.  Windows Mobile could not have survived in it's present form. MS tried everything and couldng get past 10% market share. This represents a strategic shift for the entire company and not just a tactical "me too" approach in phones. Make no mistake, MS is betting the farm here. Windows won't survive another decade if it doesn't have a mobile platform. If this doesn't work, there are serious consequences for MS. That said, remember they don't need to knock this out of the park on the first iteration.  8. There are a large number of people who buy phones to look cool, Iphones are now premium but boring (sort of like Dad's Volvo) and Android phones are for the most part a comodity. I think MS has a real chance to do something here that will upset the apple cart. (pun intended)
  • Right-on even the iPhoneX is a +1k$ boring device  
  • Most fan following writer ...Jason :)
  •  I'm in, I've been in since the start of Windows Phone, and I'm staying in. I just hope my 95XL lays that long 😑 It's my 3rd WP, and I've really loved them all, even with all the glitches. There have been many, but not enough to make me go back to iPhone, and I had the 1st one...Bailed somewhere around iPhone 5(?) But I digress. I'm not like y'all. Half the time I don't know what you're talking about, I am Jane Consumer. I use my phone for emails researching on the web and business. I don't use social media. I have better use for my time. I don't even like to read my emails and avoid them when I can. I need something that skips across the web blingingly fast because pulling things up quickly makes all the difference in my business, and I REALLY want to be able to highlight and make notes as I go along. I have to admit, I'm envious of Galaxy in that regard. But not enough to jump ship. And I do love Continuum. So back to the beginning, I'm in and I will wait. I'm going to keep the faith in Microsoft.
  • Lumia 950 still cuts it for me! It would be great to have an upgrade path sooner rather than later, though.
  • This is neither a phone killer nor a pc killer, as some folks pointed out the business case for such a device is not strong, but then same stands true for smart watches etc, I think naming it as a ultramobile PC is wrong as it isnt going to be a PC, Ppl from Ms call it a digital moleskin/notebook, Zac's tidbits point that MS is creating some customized programs just for this device with focus n productivity, so this device will be a niche, an addition to all the existing devices ppl have, now ppl who dont care abt apps, who dont need a mobile wallet or a starbucks app etc etc will use this as their phone replacement, others will just carry it along side their laptops and phones, and for most it wont be any use. This device is likely to be used as a PDA rather than a phone, enthusiasts might still buy it as they are fans/enthusiasts.   However if ppl think this will suddenly solve the app gaps via bluestacks etc or that this will suddenly kill smartphones and laptops in 1 shot (as is evident from some of the comments) are mistaken.
  • It's for a total different market. Obviously not a consumer phone. Apps will make no difference at all because most IT administrators will not allow some silly little bit of software that makes bird calls on the phone at all. If one is purchased for private use then the user will have access to actual desktop applications. Will that be popular with teenagers? Possibly gamers but not the typical Facebook or Snapchat obsessed 14 year old nor their vicariously inclined parent. 
  • Where do you, Jason, get the right to speak for all Windows phone fans? I love Windows Phone for what it is/was, and not for what you are trying to turn it into: some PC-wannabe thing. That concept sounds awful. Never have I thought to myself: hey, I really wish that I could run this Win32 app on my Lumia. Never. And by the way, why is a device that's not supposed to replace our smartphones the dream device of Windows *phone* fans? And not Surface Pro fans?
  • If MS or another company releases a 5"-6" device, no fancy folding stuff, using WoA, with a UI looking exactly like a Windows phone, will that solve your issue?
  • If they do release one, I'll wait one or two generations before even thinking about investing in one. First of all, MS might kill the product quite quickly if it's not successful. Second of all, the competition will bring similar devices to the market and they will probably be better (and actually have apps).
  • You are oh so right! With the demonstrated tenous commitment of MS, app developers will have to think more than twice before committing their time and effort to develop apps when MS can trash their own products at any time without warning!
  • I really can't wait to see the real thing. As long as I can run the apps I need on a Windows based device I'm all in. Otherwise I'll continue on with Android and watch years go by like I've been doing for the last three plus years. Just give me the Surface phone and let me keep my Lyft driver app and Verizon FiOS mobile and all the other non Windows Store apps that I use now. That's the golden phone/device for me.
  • This looks more like it, not just Nokias legacy repeated over and over...
  • I have wanted a good Windows 10 mini tablet. Dell And HP and others use to sell them but stoped who sells a Windows 10- 7 or 8 inch Mini tablet today? If this proposed 2 screen Surface Mini Tablet PC with a built in LTE Cell phone Run Windows 10 on ARM, and has good IT department Software & runs Win32 / X86 PC Programs & the Apps in the Windows 10 Microsoft store it will do some of the things Windows smart phone fans Wanted the "Surface smart phone to do. This device however will BE a PC Tablet First not a Smart phone. if Microsoft makes it small enough to fit a average Man's pants pockets which they could do if the divice is not over 4 inches wide by 7 inches long by an half inch thick when folded it will fit OK into a man's Pants pocket. Windows smart phone fans wil buy this device if the size & Price is right  
  • Vaporware.
  • cant wait for this
  • This makes complete sense, and why it seemed that MS didnt care about W10M, because W10M was likely a temporary holdover just until this next step was ready to be implemented. If this truly was their focus then all the pieces now fit in a way that makes sense. If so I cant wait to  see how this all fits, finally for those of us who have been around since the beginning, to finally see what we wanted to see since the 80's finally come into reality will be awesome, I just hope I can afford it things have changed these days for many of us who arent spring chickens anymore. :\
  • It yet again beggars the question:  MS thought it was smart -- to lay the groundwork for this brave new world of people making phone calls with folded windows tablets stuck to their ears -- to napalm WM10 and in the process destroy the last remnants of goodwill of their consumer users.  You know, us folks who bought MS's bullshit about the brave new worlds of WM 6.x, then that of WM7.x (new hardware required); then that of WM8 (new hardware required); then WP10, (new hardware required for most)....  See the pattern here?  There won't be anyone left to buy into the next platform!  MS could have, and should have, done everything humanly possible to maintain and improve the experiences of WP users until this mystery tablet-phone materialized.  Instead, MS announces in some ***** engineer's offhanded tweet that WP was being left for dead.  Then MS kills off Groove and even Cortana's music search function.  It is intentionally strangling the platform.  Who in his right mind would ever trust this company again?