Microsoft claims Windows 10 upgrades for all Lumia Windows Phones

The reason WP7 devices couldn't be upgraded to WP8 was because MS forced manufactures to build woefully underpowered and underspec'd devices.  Don't believe me, look up the specs of the top smartphones of 2012,

Or, it could be that wp 8 is based on a new kernel and it would of taken a lot of effort that most people wouldn't of been willing to undergo in order to update the older devices to 8

What does WP8's kernel have to do with the hardware restrictions Microsoft put on Windows Phone hardware makers?   

There wasn't a hardware restriction per say. It was more like the effort that would of been required in order to update the older devices was not worth their time as the majority of people would not be willing to go through said effort. As a result of said decision they could then change the hardware requirements to whatever they wanted since they were practically starting over and it wouldn't matter to current generation handset owners. The point being even if Microsoft hadn't implemented the new arbitrary hardware requirements, the old devices would still not of been updated because of the technical skill required in order to do so.

The hardware restrictions I was referring to were things such as display resolution and ram; Microsoft's poor way to maintain a consisitent UX.  Those said restrictions are the most common reason provided by many here as to why older phones weren't upgraded.   If what you say is true, then no wonder Windows Phone has such poor marketshare.  Those WP7.5 users willing to migrate their old phones to WP8, only happened to be the most vocal. 

The unhappy users are always the loudest

One would think stringent hardware requirements would make it much easier to package the new os to match the older hardware. This being that everythign had to match both low end spec, as well as high end spec. Bottom line is that to do a complete kernel update for the older hardware to work with the new kernel, it would have required a way to install via another device, such as a PC. It would not have been able to work over an OTA upgrade path.

low end specs as well as high end specs? rotfl thats like trying to install windows 7 ultimate on a 15 year old pc it just does not have the hardware 2 run! installing 8 and 8.1 on an old dinosour windows 7 phone is the same concept! And i do beleive its not worth microsofts time to build to sep OS for both old and new phones !

It had absolutely nothing to do with "hardware restrictions". WP8 was designed to work perfectly on the lowest spec devices to the highest spec ones. The only reason is that it would've required a complete re-flash of the phone (all the bitlocker stuff aside). That requires support of ALL the carriers to not only release & test the update process for every WP7 models, but to also support the process or replace handsets that are bricked. The WP7 marketshare was so low that they all decided not to bother to go through all of that expense and aggravation as it was easier and more cost effective to just refuse to update them and sell shiny new phones for more money. They managed to put a ripped version of WP8 on the HTC HD2, possibly the HD7, so it is physically possible.

Hardware restrictions were for minimum standards. There was no restriction on how powerful a device could be made (this was a manufacturer choice. It was a software limitation, not a hardware one.  

Sorry, but you have been misinformed. There was a reason why there were Android devices with 1080p displays, while the Titan II and Lumia 900 only had 480p displays. http://www.silverlightshow.net/items/WP7-Screen-Considerations-for-Devel...

OK Chuck.... we get it. Now stop arguing with everyone... Good Grief... My Lumia 920 will stay relevant... I'm excited about that...

Kernel of W7 is based on WindowsCE and W8 is based on WindowsNT, you cannot "upgrade" from one to another, the harware probably is compatible with both kernels but to switch to a different kernel you need to swipe the OS totally, W10 is an upgrade of the same OS, same kernell...

You can upgrade kernels. The most likely reason for dropping WP7 is hw, and hw adaptation layers in the sw side of things. The excuse that the kernel would have been difficult / impossible to upgrade is 95% MS marketing talk. It's still likely a good decision they decided to do the cut when they did though.

For what I know the kernel is a protected area of the OS that cannot be overwriten by another code, is part of the arquitecture of the OS (if the kernell was not designed to support more than certain number of processors then cannot be upgraded), thats why windows 95-98-Me cannot be upgraded to NT kernels like NT-XP-7 etc. WindowsCE was designed for embedded systems, PocketPC, Windows mobile, Windows Phone 7, and there's a newer version 2013. The NT kernel probably can run on WP7 hardware but not as an upgrade, must be a clean install. Somebody installed Windows98 on an iphone6 plus, also somebody installed windows 95 on a smatwatch... but I don't know if somebody has been switching WP 7 and 8 versions :(

Well you can't start a new smartphoneOS /ecosystem with high end phones... You have to start from the bottom

That's not true. The HD2 which was a Windows Mobile 6 device had the same specs as Windows Phone 7. It was hacked to run Windows Phone 7 first and Windows Phone 8 later on. They said it ran fine. The reason WP7 devices weren't upgraded is because MS didn't have any way to do an in place upgrade without wiping the device because WP7 and WP8 are completely different. WP8 and W10 for phones is really not going to be all that different.
 

Wooh, someone understands!!

My phone was manufactured in 2012 its a lumia 920 and its a powerhouse even under 2014 stats so better check wtf you writing because your obviously delusional when it comes to the hardware specs comment!!

You speak as it Microsoft hasn't failed on lofty promises like this before

When, exactly? And also: there's nothing "lofty" about this.

Lumia 810. T-Mo ain't gonna upgrade that. Let's guess if the Lumia 822, 928, and 929 will get updated either, hahaha. (Verizon laughs in background)

All devices, including the 810 and the others you mention, can get the Preview for Developers (which is NOT beta!). Firmware is the big problem, since it has to come from carriers.

Not the same developer preview!

?

firmware can be distributed by microsoft thru the dev preview if MS really forced the issue. in fact they should be doing this already.

They cant... This os because the carriers have to edit the firmware slightly to fit with their network... I.e when data sense came, the carriers had to make sure it worked with their network, by doing so they have to edit it to do so (even if only slightly)

<I.e when data sense came, the carriers had to make sure it worked with their network, by doing so they have to edit it to do so (even if only slightly)> One thought here. If Microsoft could persuade the carriers to either work with Microsoft during the development of the next upgrade or the carriers had to send in the specifics of the modifications, everything could be incorporated in the OS and the extra work and time for modifications, and consequently delays before the upgrade reaches the end-users, could me minimized.

You should tell them that not me :p lol. However, would it actually speed up the development of updates? As with the amount of Carriers from different countries, It would be quite difficult to carry on making the development of the actual update, and have to communicate with every single carrier very regually, which would give them more work (and would probably take more time...) however this is just what im thinking, maybe im wrong, but it makes sense that it might actually slow down the whole update scedule for Preview For developers as updates will take MUCH longer. Plus it would also cause the same problems what Microsoft has tried to avoid when creating the Preview For Devs, as not all carriers would finish at the same time when working with MS, so people with different carriers will be getting the Preview at different times, seems like the idea of carriers working with MS to that extent may just shoot down the whole Preview scheme xD (however like i said, i may be wrong :p)

To install Preview for Developers, you must: 1) Register for a developer account (and provide personal information); 2) Once you sign up for a developer account and figure out all the stuff involved, download a special app; 3) Authenticate; 4) Accept the following terms of service: This software is prerelease software and Microsoft does not guarantee that it will function properly (or at all) -- you agree to release Microsoft from the Windows Phone warranty of fit-for-purpose This software will void your warranty and could damage or destroy your device and data. 5) Hope for the best and hit install... 6) Start enjoying an experience that has issues (especially on selected devices) due to a lack of upgraded drivers. If the software is "NOT BETA," why does Microsoft state in its agreement that the code is not fit for purpose, can damage your device, can corrupt your data, can void your device warranty, and is not guaranteed to be functional before you install it? Compare that to the process to install an iOS "NOT beta!" update, which is basically "hit OK," and "reboot iPhone."  No need to worry about warranties, etc.

Lmao, purposefully making the process seem complicated doesn't make it actually complicated. Not to mention comparing to the competition making theirs sound super easy when comparing different types of updates. Apple most certainly also has beta updates, and they're way more complicated to install; but that isn't the topic at hand. The entire dev preview process takes less than 60 seconds to do (one time, after that the updates work like usual) and making an apple, google, Microsoft account all require personal information, the information that is already on their servers. You register your email account (type it in, press enter), download the app, and login. That's it. I'm sure there are legal reasons why they have to put what they do, but neither of us should assume what the actual reasons are as we'd both be making stuff up. The point is you can compare version numbers on release and on dev preview and you definitely get final versions, but you also get beta stuff early on (thoroughly tested typically), as is the nature of such a program; you're welcome to skip the beta ones until the final OS version is reached. While I agree on the firmware thing, there's nothing forcing you to download the updates. When an update releases, wait a few days and see if people are having problems; or don't enable the preview. And on the warranty, not only have I confirmed with MS that dev preview doesn't void warranty, I have had a device replaced with dev preview loaded. Not to mention you can just uninstall the app whenever you want. It really is as simple as they could make it without angering the carriers (who, in the US, they rely on for sales). Honestly I'm surprised they got this far. But if you have a problem with it, there are certainly competing platforms that might better fit your update needs.

Dont buy your phone from a US carrier... lol

nice try, thats t-mobiles failure, not microsofts. Same with the icon, verizons failure, not microsofts

Really?  T-Mobile and Verizon are responsible for Microsoft's decision to foist upgrades on carriers rather than deliver them OTA?

No, carriers wouldn't get behind the OS if MS didn't go this route. Just look at the android update situation. Apple is the industry exception for this due to their popularity, but not even Samsung can match apple in updates. Honestly, the fact that this is still a discussion topic when we've seen this sort of behavior for years is mind boggling.

HUGE MS fan but they did the did this with WP7 to WP8.  They said that WP7 phones would be updated to WP8.  They lied!

Can you point me to a place where MS said this?  I don't mean some random blogger who had 'sources' or maybe some random MS Store employee or even a full timer in Redmond.  Where did MS say that WP phones would be upgradable to WP8?

In there announcement of 8.0 they were using images of the HTC Radar. And it never made it!

They didn't lie, they never said they'd update the kernel, just the UI elements.

No, they didn't. Ever

Microsoft never implied this. A WP7->8 upgrade was technically infeasible because the kernel is completely different. Why is this so damning to MS? It's not a bad thing to be on a new kernel, it brought tons of improvements to WP.

I do not recall them saying that.   There was alot of speculation that they would but I do not believe anything offical from Microsoft.

Can you show where Microsoft said that WP7 would be upgraded to WP8?

​I guess you never used MS powered PDAs or WM smartphones....

Any body answer me please, is it will be available for Windows phone 8.1

Yes all Windows Phone 8(.1) devices

Microsoft hasn't said "all Windows Phone 8(.1) devices" will get Windows 10, they've said all Windows 8.x-based *Lumias* will get Windows 10.  That doesn't guarantee that Samsung, HTC, Blu, etc., phones will get it.  I suspect they will, but they haven't yet promised it.

Since nearly all wp (8) now run 8.1, yes it will

@efektos... Let me start early... Where is the Verizon Windows Phone 10 update? They are so slow!

Eh? Am I missing something, the answer to your question os that there is no wp10 yet... That's due in 2015... So they aren't being slow, Microsoft hasn't even sent it to carriers yet xD

Sure. But why didn't Microsoft say this months ago instead of letting the rumor percolate and spread?

not really. They are saying that it is "possible". Not that it "will" happen. If MSFT wants to shake the FUD naysayers, then upgrade the Icon to 8.1, and make sure all the devices get the update on launch day.

This news made my day

Awesome news!  Coming to Verizon in 2023... maybe

LOL haha awww that's Verizon, they don't give a fuck cause it's not IOS or Android

That's where People Power comes in. Group up an dump Verizon!.

They pull the same crap with android. Verizon is always last except with ios and only because apple strong armed them.

what about HTC or Samsung?

There not Lumia devices.  HTC and Samsung would need to make a similar statement.

If it won't be available for HTC 8x, I will definitely throw the phone out of the window, go to HTC Support Center and then...

Alternately you could use said phone to call the HTC Support Center...

I believe this statement implies its theroretically possible to upgrade any WP8.x device regardless of manufacturer and all of them will at least get DP. Will they get actual proper firmware updates? That remains to be seen. I promise you right now the Nokia 810 will not. I strongly suspect none of the Verizon phones will either.

It will be interesting to see if it will still run as smoothly., especially on lower end phones.

I wonder if it'll be better or worse on low end devices too. Since I upgraded my 521 to 8.1 I find it less responsive and less stable. Still works fine and I love that I can put apps on the SD card now but it's overall not as solid as it used to be.

same with my 520. the new features were great, sure, but performance... not so good sometimes

"I love that I can put apps on the SD card " well, they will never run like if they are on the phone. and it's obvious having an action center available all the time, even on games and apps will cause some difference in performace compared with 8.0 but 8.1 runs smooth for me in a 520 and 720. but I never put games or apps on the SD card because I know it will not be fast.

I'm noticing pauses, slowness, and even quitting out on apps stored on the phone, not just the SD card. Internet Explorer, Facebook, and especially with Cortana.

the 520 and 521 is not built for performance its built for economic reasons it only has 512 ram and min storage space without  being expanded! Ever hear the saying you get what you pay for? I think that fits right here!

Windows NT (which WP8+ is based on) has been improving performance ever since Vista was released. Windows 7 broke even with XP (sometimes 7 was better sometimes XP was better). Windows 8 is better than 7 and 10 will be either on par with 8 or better. I suspect the same thing will be true with the phones.

Good, cause I woulda been pissed after getting my new 1520.

If the come up with something better than 1520, I don't mind having ip to date hardwear, but so far there's nothing that much better, even with android or apple

"all phones" should mean all phones..else we wud hav to sue MS

I guess my only question would be how dependent the features will be with a correlating firmware update cause that can take a long time

New features of windows 10, any guesses?

Ever wonder why they called it Windows 10 not windows phone 10? It's a good sign.

There was an article on WMPowerUser a few days ago that suggested they may be going back to the Windows Mobile naming scheme. I think that would be a better fit due to all of the different device tpyes that will run Windows 10. Windows Phone 10 just does not sound as eloquent as Windows Mobile. http://wmpoweruser.com/will-the-next-version-of-windows-phone-be-called-windows-mobile/

Windows Mobile has a negative stigma attached to it. Its why to this day I felt that Windows Phone was a bad name because people interchange phone and mobile. "You're using a windows phone? I used one of those crappy things 10 years ago."

Boot

This is a trick statement, carrier response will be: "We no longer support (insert phone) after (insert date weeks before Windows Phone 10 release)."

Luckily, regardless if carrier supports them or not, we do still have the Developer Preview option.

and then, that wouldn't be Microsoft fault. and that's why you should get a unbranded and unlocked device if you want to keep getting updates without being affected to what a carrier says or not. so if you don't get the update, well, Microsoft won't be able to do anything about it unless you install a preview or something like today.

810, 822, 928, Icon, HTC One M8 for Windows (Verizon model only), etc....

Thanks I don't live in US, at least here we have generic versions of any phone so we can install updates right away with no need to wait the lazy carries to move their arses :D
 

Whatever! Where's the next High End WP. This is getting ridiculous, & annoying. I don't care about windows 10 right now.

The next flagship launch will coincide with Windows 10 launch. Dont hold your breath, It could well be past 1st quarter of 2015  

Agree. Thank god I won a free 1520 this May otherwise I am recently very tempted by the Nexus 6. Lets stick to windows phone a little bit longer.

If you are right, then the next flagship will likely be well past the 2nd quarter as well. I'm usually in favor of quick release-to-launch times, but currently it might be best for WP if there was at least some leaks of a new flagship.

I am hoping by July of next year, but not expecting it till October.  When they say "early next year", that's just wishful thinking.

Subject to carrier support I guess Posted via Windows Phone Central App

YOU MEAN *WINDOWS CENTRAL NOT WINDOWS PHONE CENTRAL >:(

Next thing we'll hear Microsoft is porting Windows 10 as "an app" to iOS and Android...

Lmfao I nearly fell off my bed laughing

With more features than on windows 10 phones :-)

Not that silly really. I remember when Apple ran a competition to see who could create an app to allow macs to dual boot with windows. This led to the development of bootcamp. I would like to see someone develop an app to let windows phone dual boot on android phones. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

:-) Edit: Well if my AT&T L920 gets Windows 10, then it will definitely be easier to wait for the L1020 successor.

xD

That's one thing the article DIDN'T mention, and I think DANIEL RUBINO should've touched on..
...........
W10 is available for all Lumia devices, but that only means available for carriers to choose to update devices. This isn't a guarantee that every single device will be getting the update.. Carriers still have the option of blocking updates...
.............. There's a big difference between AVAILABLE for and COMING to.....

Same, I'm holding on to my 920 waiting for the 1520 successor. I don't have the cash to buy the 1520 now and its successor later.

EBay and Amazon, I have never spent more than $200 on a new smart phone since 2009!

May be no need. I suspect a 1030 will be one of the devices released with W10.

I think 1030 will never be.

I think a 1030 is dead cert. I tend to think that the 930 was a nice stop gap to put some on for a while. The 920 & 1020 owners are going to be coming ready for an upgrade in the next 6 months or so. The 1020 was too widely regarded not to have a successor. I don't need a higher mp count, but I do want top level imaging. 3GB of RAM and an 810 Snapdragon would be sweet. A dedicated graphics chip may help, need the speed between shots. Oh and a shop stopping battery.

Amen :)

Microsoft Lumia Windows 10 Mobile

Great... Lets hope its not another disappointment from Microsoft

I always take what they say with a pinch of salt.

Grain

Well... Maybe he takes a few more grain(s) of salt they you would... :)

Haha, good point.

We know that Joe from Microsoft said something a few weeks back about cyan being available to all lumia devices, then turned out what he said was incorrect. So a pinch or a grain who knows. :)

When it comes to MS, he needs a bit more than a grain :)

In the UK we say pinch of salt. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

Heard this news earlier :) Happy & Excited!!

Windows 10 rule !!!!!!!!!! :))

U r snap dragon? 400 or 800 ? :P

600?

Good news.

Great job Microsoft thnx

You're welcome :)

It will be a great job when they will deliver

So exciting!!! My 830 will be ready and waiting.

is this truly ALL lumias, or all lumias depending on the carrier?

Probably by the carriers if you don't own an unlocked one. However we may see Preview for All upgrades..

Unlocked phones can upgrade without the need of the carrier to "Allow" it? Can they also get updates like Lumia Cyan without waiting for the damn carrier?

Yes that's the point :)

Yup, unlocked & unbranded phones bypass carrier blocks. Just having an unlocked Verizon phone isn't enough.

​Unlocked no, Unbranded yes. There is a big difference between the two.

Developer Preview gets it for all Lumia I would assume, just like with WP 8.1. If you wait for the carrier, there could be problems like with Verizon and the Icon.

I read here on WC that 1520, maybe 1020, and another were first to get denim. Same logic should apply for for 10. Then again, I'm thinking logically...

Windows 10 will probably be on Developer Preview first for all Windows Phone 8.X devices. New phones with Windows 10 before the old phones get the update.

:D YES!!!