Why Microsoft isn't making a smartphone, even though you want one

Before iPhone's 2007 debut Microsoft peaked with nearly 50% of smartphone market share. Eleven years later Microsoft has no hardware horse in the iPhone/Android mobile race duality. Added to this conspicuous absence the story of Windows-on-phone's demise is wrought with anger from proponents, regret from within Microsoft and mockery from opponents.

Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella who infamously claimed there was no room for a third mobile platform in his opposition to Microsoft's purchase of Nokia's phone business is blamed by many for Microsoft's current mobile woes. However, Microsoft's late move in 2010 to bring a consumer-friendly mobile platform to market, three years after iPhone, is the root of the problem.

Over-confidence and years of innovation "immobility" with pre-Windows Phone Windows Mobile set Microsoft's broader Windows-on-mobile strategy's progress at a snails-pace easily overtaken by the competition. Now, with established platforms, popular devices and user's forced exodus from Windows-on-phone Microsoft isn't making another smartphone, even if you want one. But Microsoft isn't done with mobile.

What makes a mobile platform successful?

Nadella was probably right in his early assessment that there was no room for a third mobile platform in the traditional slate smartphone sense. Nadella made later statements about bringing an "ultimate mobile device to market," that is "beyond the curve." This lends credence to the belief that his reservations about a third mobile platform were limited to refraining from competing in a market with entrenched rivals, invested users, an app store and developer economy that had passed slow-moving Microsoft by.

The current 11-year-old mobile infrastructure revolves around app ecosystems, strong developer and carrier relationships, OEM partnerships in the case of Google and Android, and premium hardware and software synergy for Apple.

From 2010 to 2015 Microsoft tried (perhaps half-heartedly) to adapt its mobile efforts to this infrastructure but failed miserably. Microsoft ultimately realized there was no room for another smartphone platform. And that's okay; smartphones are dead anyway.

Smartphones are dead

Early "smartphones" were more "phone" than anything else. Usage patterns on these keyboard-equipped devices with two- to three-inch screens focused on talking and light email use, text messaging, document review and little more.

Current devices with mini-tablet-like HD six-inch-plus touch displays, high-speed processors, 4 gigabytes of RAM, up to 256 gigabytes of storage, integrated artificial intelligence (A.I.) and more are mini tablet computers. This isn't semantics. What we call smartphones are pocket computers that consumers compare using the same spec categories we've traditionally used when shopping for PCs.

This hardware evolution, the accompanying order of magnitude increase in capabilities and the consistent connectivity to evolving mobile broadband is a very subtle, but notable, shift in the mobile industry. Mobile device usage patterns have shifted from one category (phones) to another (PCs). Usage is no longer phone-first focused. With web-surfing, gaming, content creation, and editing, messaging and more being the focus mobile devices are used as tablet PCs-first, that happen to have telephony. This shift is good news for Microsoft and one reason why it's not making a smartphone.

Smartphones are dead

It's about the experiences

Though hardware is important to users, experiences matter most. A user isn't really concerned "how" he orders tickets to a show as long as his device helps him do it. Traditionally, tapping an app or opening a mobile website helped users accomplish tasks. That behavior and multilayered paradigm (involving developers, app stores, devices) are entrenched. Moving against the inertia of that system is difficult but it's happening …slowly.

Furthermore, digital assistants and ambient computing's evolution lets users speak to devices. Google Assistant and even Cortana now do what some apps used to do. Google demonstrated A.I. that is indistinguishable from a real person setting appointments, or answering a phone call. The experience of getting things done on our mobile devices is slowly evolving to be less app-dependent as A.I. becomes more integrated and capable.

Progressive Web Apps (PWAs), hybrid app and web properties, are also slowly moving computing beyond the constraints of the app economy that Microsoft failed to gain a foothold in.

Though the technology is evolving slowly, a shift in how users experience getting things done is undeniably underway. Combined with a hardware evolution that has categorically moved from phones to literal pocket computers some of the barriers that prevented Microsoft from entering mobile with a third platform are slowly coming down. Microsoft's mythical Surface "Andromeda" needn't be defined as a phone since mobile device usage patterns are more consistent with PCs.

Living on the edge ...with Andromeda?

Microsoft's focus on edge computing and its new game streaming service xCloud leverages the power, accessibility, ubiquity, and device agnostic nature of the cloud to get things done.

Cloud computing and app and game streaming (regardless of platform) on the edge is what Microsoft's cloud strategy is about. Microsoft doesn't need a smartphone to take advantage of this. A pocket computer, that supports common user experiences thorough A.I., PWAs, cloud computing and of course apps (for now) would do.

There was no room for a third smartphone platform eight years ago. As mobile is now "pocket-PC-centric" versus phone-centric, and A.I. and PWAs are beginning to show other means than traditional apps can facilitate user's mobile experiences, perhaps room is being made for a third, non-smartphone mobile platform.

What Microsoft should do

Microsoft should wholly eschew any association with Surface Andromeda being a phone (though possessing telephony). And position it as a pocket Surface PC showcasing xCloud and Windows Ink. It would be a specific PC category with Core OS that is admittedly niche, but gaming and inking-focused but with all the capabilities of Windows via Core OS.

Additionally, Microsoft should go all out in its support of OEMs to build this device category. No, Microsoft is not making a smartphone, even though you may want one. That time has passed. It's time for something better. The question is can Microsoft deliver?

Jason Ward

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

  • Microsoft isn't making phones because no one bought Microsoft phones. Did we really need an article explaining this?
  • Not quite accurate. That's like saying Sony stopped making betamax because no one bought them - also not accurate. There were market forces at work in addition to poor timing where the better tech does not necessarily prevail.
  • I owned both a betamax and vhs systems. Betamax hands down was way better. In the early years in the video stores you could go in and rent either type. Then slowly but surely Beta started to disappear. I was disappointed. And went with the flow. But I'm not going with the flow this time around. I'm holding on to my Windows Phone until it just doesn't work any more. You can keep your iPhones and Android crap. It's not for me.
  • The only reason why Sony(Betamax) and Philips (V2000) lost the battle is because in the early days Sony / Philips Board refused to accept Porn content to be distributed on Betamax/V2000 tapes. VHS couldn't care less they didn't mingle regarding the content. It's as simple as that.
  • That's a very interesting scenario, though I am wondering if this is the case why it is not mentioned here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videotape_format_war
  • Well, "the only reason" should be taken with a grain of salt but it was a contributing factor apart from price difference and 2 vs 4 hours playing time. https://knowledgenuts.com/2014/03/05/betamax-didnt-lose-to-vhs-because-o... "It is true that Sony didn’t let pornography companies use their technology for mass production"
  • Wasn't Betamax a maximum of 1h of content? Not enough to store a movie.
  • Not to mention Philips' V2000.
  • That's a good point. Reminds me of Sony Blue Ray vs Toshiba HD.
  • It's very accurate. The only part of the market they could sell phones in, at anything approaching acceptable volumes, is the extreme low end of the market; and there are no profits there, as those users only used it due to price. If they were willing to pay more, they went straight to Chinese OEM or Samsung mid-range devices; often almost as good as Microsoft's Flagships. Despite the media going out of their way to make Windows Phone seem a lot better than it was, the reality is that it was never really that good, and was more comparable to a feature phone OS than Android and iOS for the first 1-2 years of its existence. It didn't really evolve significantly past that, either, thanks to its utter lack of an acceptable app ecosystem and no mainstream developer support. On top of that, Microsoft launched the platform with some OLD hardware/internals, and it was buggy as hell. Live Tiles not updating. Disappearing Keyboard? Messages (Windows Live) not being sent or received (working better on Blackberry, iOS, and Android devices than Windows Phone). Phone becoming so laggy that you had to factory reset it for it to function properly. Those were all things I dealt with on the HTC HD7, and that set the stage for a lot of early adopters' opinions on Windows Phone/Mobile, at a time when Android was at its weakest point (the Eclair->FroYo timeframe). Also, Microsoft completely backtracked on the guarantee that Carriers would not control updates, forcing a ton of the user base to use hacks and workarounds to "force" updates; which often were not optimized for the device and caused additional issues! The only thing that made this platform look more viable than it was, was the dirt cheap Lumia 520 devices, later on, and fire sales on Windows Phones that simply weren't selling; as OEMs wanted to get rid of inventory ASAP and move on from it. It wasn't selling well. The entire platform was being outsold by Android OEMs like LG, HTC, and Motorola - and we describe many Android OEMs as "struggling" in the current market. There's a reason why most of those OEMs abandoned Windows Phone, even though Microsoft set out to make it more attractive for them to use... It wasn't just because of the lack of ability to customize the firmware, as there are more than enough other ways to differentiate through hardware, design, and custom software (Camera Software, S Note/Pen, etc.). Windows Phone/Mobile was never as good as VHS, so competing with the Betamax of the industry (iOS/Android) wasn't even an option. Blackberry 10 was a far better option than Windows Phone/Mobile. Perhaps if all those users would have gone to BB10, we wouldn't have the "two party" situation we have in Mobile to this day. WP7 wasn't even close to ready when it was released, and after release Microsoft significantly slowed down its development. The abandoning move to WP8 and later WP10 didn't help things, and turned a lot of developers off. Too much "rework" for a platform that hasn't even positioned itself to deserve the time and effort to do so. Microsoft also made Windows 8 such a polarizing OS (and so awful to use on Desktop and Laptop systems), that they couldn't even sell the ecosystem as a benefit (as Apple does), because so many people simply avoided the Desktop OS. Then they took forever (and a day) to launch any manner of Continuity/Handoff features... on Android (cause their own platform burned alive in the interim). Still baffling to me considering the devices use the same account system and Windows supports BT[LE], WiFi Direct, DLNA... practically every protocol needed to enable this. How can you own the most used desktop platform in the world, and fail so utterly as leveraging it as a competitive advantage to help sell your users on your own mobile platform... Apple basically schooled Microsoft, here. But now, in 2018, they want us to duplicate all of our stock software on Android or iOS (being pushed by the same fanboys who complain about "bloatware" on those platforms i.e. pre-installed system software they "personally" don't want). - Cortana who is dumber than Bixby & Siri, and wastes a ton of battery (esp. if allowed Location Access)
    - Edge without Content/Ad Blocking or Tracking Protection; not well optimized for the device (vs. Samsung Internet on a Samsung device, for example)
    - OneNote with its molasses sync speed and 3rd rate developer support from Microsoft. Locks you into OneDrive, etc.
    - OneDrive that is totally redundant, as every Platform (and some OEMs) have 1st party Cloud Storage Services with better OS integration; awful photo/video management, loss of mobile music locker, etc.
    - Office with a Subscription Cost, when every platform has totally viable 1st party productivity software (Google Docs, Apple iWorks are both excellent for Mobile, rendering Office totally unnecessary unless you have a business reason for it), and LibreOffice is $0 on desktop. Have fun paying to use Office in Samsung Dex! The others work fine out of the box... no money needed.
    - Outlook, To Do : Again, totally redundant, and a waste of space and battery life.
    - Skype: That none of the increasingly mobile-first users out there are using, or care about (literally more people I know have Duo installed on their phones, than Skype accounts; a total embarrassment, IMHO). I actually think the move to Skype was a net loss for Microsoft in the consumer market. Literally all of my Windows Live Messenger contacts have moved onto a competing service, instead of migrating to Skype.
  • Soooooooooo, you like Windows Phone then? Asking for a friend.
  • Note 9 is gonna be my best friend. As soon as I customize it to my liking, and with MS's launcher,,,, Can't wait to have apps again, and some I never could get with WP. Still interested in Andromeda, and I seriously hope it's an awesome Surface device, if MS has the balls. Right now I carry a GS7 as my work issued device, and use my Lumia 950 as my main device......
    After using Windows Phone my GS7 still feels archaic, almost as if I'm using WinMo from 2008. But, Androids feature set is a dream to any WP fan.
    After all these years Windows Phone/Mobile is still more beautiful to use than Android, and just makes more sense the way it's situated. Seems like such a waste. But, I use both, so I can accurately judge without too much bias. I'm not really sad about it anymore. Android has worlds more to offer than WP, and the N9 is pretty sick. I hope the camera is amazing.
  • It’s going to happen. Bill Gates just let slip their future plans. SURFACE ANDROMEDA, Baby!
  • I'm currently using a Note 9. Its Dex feature works great, but I seldom use it since I only use W10 desktop apps. Andromeda will serve me better. MS may not call Andromeda a smartphone, but it better be one if they want Andromeda to succeed. I would like to see Andromeda support 5G, phone features when folded, a tablet when unfolded, an xCloud game controller, a desktop with Continuum, a Journal notebook with inking/pen, a collaborative tool with Windows Teams/Whiteboard, VR viewer, a decent camera and absolutely NO Notch. It will run all the Windows Store apps, web apps, and PWA apps. It will be built as a monster productivity mobile device rather than a consumer phone. I would jump when Andromeda supports 5G and phone features.
  • Of course, as stressed in the piece it will have telephony among its many functions, but it will be a pocket PC not a phone. Just as it will have a camera but no be a camera, have word processing capabilities but not be a word processor. Categorically, if it launches it will be a true pocket Windows Core OS PC, with a digital journal focus, that unfolds as a tablet, docks via Continuum as a PC and folds to mobile pocketable dimensions.
  • Sounds good to me.
  • I really enjoy reading your editorials. I hope much of what you said comes to pass. As one of the few here who still holds on to a Windows 10 Phone, I would love to be able to trade in my old Lumia for a new device, and what better device would that be if it was the rumored Andromeda. Also what do you think they will eventually name the device? I hope it's something cool and catchy.
  • Jason can’t say what Microsoft is going to call Andromeda because he’s under an NDA, but rest assured, it’s the best name Microsoft could have chosen. News coming soon
  • Then what's hte point, especially as someone in the consumer market. Samsung is already demoing their foldable design (the first one, at least). They already have Dex out there, with tons of app support from companies like Google, Adobe, and even Microsoft. Andromeda may be okay, but it needs a decent ecosystem to be a factor in the consumer market. 90% of the people commenting are consumer market entities. Getting excited for something that is basically another "Hololens situation" isn't really that useful, IMO, and probably isn't being developed or manufactured to sale in mass quantities, anyways. Personally, I wish they had just kept Desktop Windows desktop Windows and integrated thier products with services and protocols... Developed Windows CE into a great mobile experience as a companion of sorts. This is how Apple has found success with their iDevices, and why they are able to sell more PCs year over year (because iOS users are getting Macs for the convenience, but Windows was never "that good" for Windows Phone/Mobile users due to Microsoft ignoring the obvious until it was far too late). I also think it would have been useful if Microsoft had split there Mobile OS development out to a different subsidiary, to keep them on their toes. It think it was too easy to be mediocre and get away with it, being tied to the larger organization and Windows team.
  • Windows phone is behind Android in every aspect. Why does your job issue you a phone? Are you a marketing person?
  • Not quite every aspect. Cortana still has one feature that iPhone or Android have. You still cannot answer calls or reply to texts using Google assistant. I also agree, Tiles still look better than the icons on Android and iPhone, but that's just personal preference.
  • I'm an electronics/electrical technician.
    Android is ahead of Windows Phone in every single area EXCEPT UI... The Windows Phone 8.1 UI is still the best on a smartphone. Unfortunately, UI is what shapes the experience, on the other hand, anyone who has used only Android wouldn't know the difference..........
  • How does putting squares around the icons make any difference? You can put squares around Android icons if you want.
  • WP 8.1 UI is still the best on a smartphone. Stop crying about it.
  • He's asking a question. Answer it. No one is crying, except you in your projective response to him. We know you well :-P
  • Android has so much deviation in UX that it's hard to take comments that speak of it as if it's one monolithic entity (like Windows Phone or iOS) seriously. Windows Phone did nothing but change the presentation of the UI. The core UI was really no different than if you put boxes around the icons on Android and intermixed widgets with app icons. Live Tiles were basically nothing but Widgets with a standardized design/UI. It wasn't that innovative. The tech press simply pushed it because they wanted more competition in the market. As you can see, they're totally over it, now.
  • The WP UI is better. It's ten times more fluent, stable, composed, synergistic, and less cumbersome. I use a GS7. Lumia 950, and a Note9. Windows Phone (8.1) has the best UI. Don't agree? That's not my problem. 👍
  • Jason enjoys repeating himself.
  • Didn't you post that comment last time?
  • 😂😂😂😂
  • I'm pretty sure the VHS vs BetaMax thing was due to the porn industry preferring VHS... Just saying
  • As I wrote here above: The only reason why Sony(Betamax) and Philips (V2000) lost the battle is because in the early days Sony / Philips Board refused to accept Porn content to be distributed on Betamax/V2000 tapes. VHS couldn't care less they didn't mingle regarding the content. It's as simple as that.
  • so Microsoft just needed to get porn to only work on Windows Phone.
  • "The question is can Microsoft deliver?" yep truer words were never written. We've been hearing about Andromeda it seems forever and now it looks like MS will once again be an "also ran" in getting this form factor to market.
  • For Microsoft to be successful in mobile computing, they still need developers to be on board. You make a big deal about gaming, which is very important for any mobile platform. The only issue is, they are only focusing on Xbox game streaming. What about traditional touch based mobile gaming? This category of games is almost a $50 billion a year industry, and Microsoft has completely ignored it. The biggest thing keeping me from buying any Windows 10 device, such as the Surface Go for example, is lack of applications. Without developer support, any ultra mobile PC lacks usefulness. It's great Microsoft is doing some work to get PWA's, etc. working in the Microsoft Store, but if no one publishes there, it doesn't make any difference. There is no evidence that Microsoft can attract developers to its ecosystem.
  • True , they do need developers for traditional apps, they need to be aggressive with PWAs, they need to push UWP and project Centennial and leverage every asset they have to get apps developed. I agree and wrote articles about that as well. Two things are undeniably true at this point 1. Microsoft needs a first-party mobile device and OEM supported mobile category of some form in the market. 2. Anything that Microsoft does given the current entrenched (though slowly shifting) mobile model, will be niche. Given these two factors, Microsoft just needs to get a mobile device in the market that leverages its strengths to the optimal degree meaning: It needs a device to showcase the flexible context-conforming nature of Windows Core OS. Needs to leverage Xbox and showcase game streaming on a context conforming device. Needs to leverage and showcase creative applications of Windows Ink on this digital journal focused devices. Needs to leverage the current power of hardware and showcase how this pocket PC can also be a powerful tablet and desktop PC when docked through Continuum. Needs to showcase how it fits collaboratively with other Surface Devices in business (and personal) through Microsoft Teams and Microsoft 365 for collaboration, inking (Whiteboard), Skype and more. Needs to show how it still has telephony but can be a companion to existing phones (so users don't mentally see it as a smartphone competitor) that can connect with thier phones through Your Phone, and other cross platform tools. Microsoft needs to put the companies weight and various divisions behind this device so that it showcases the best of Microsoft on creative context conforming Surface hardware. And Microsoft needs to support OEMs in establishing this category as it did with 2-in-1s. Yes it will be niche. And that's ok. Microsoft just needs to have a position in mobile that showcases its hardware, services and vision for mobile that is 100% behind. The company did it with 2-in-1s to give PC OEMs a creative shot in the arm. It can do the same here.
  • What you just laid out is very true, but I and many others have lost faith in MS' ability to do any of those things.
  • I think they have the ability, what I think they lack is the motivation and the focus. The company literally has everything it needs, a massive cloud platform, a cross-platform dev box, incredible hardware team with Surface, PC OEM partners and distribution channels, a gaming ecosystem, universal platform across form factors and more. It needs the motivation to coalesce all of that on the most used computing model, pocketable mobile computing. Even if niche, that's fine. It just needs to get the motivation and focus to do it.
  • You guys have written about core os, cshell, uwp, centennial apps ad nauseum for what seems like years now. Put up or shut up time passed by quite awhile ago for many of us. MS doesn't operate in a vacuum, their competitors have surpassed them in market & mind share. They want to make a folding mini tablet with telephony? Neat, if I want one I'll buy the Samsung one that comes out 2 years earlier with a fully developed ecosystem that does everything better.
  • Yes, I too have started wondering. As a MSft user since 1985 I find myself moving over to Google bit by bit, owning an Android phone and tablet, a Chromecast 4K and Google WiFi. Their smart speaker is on the list, which might move me from Hey Cortana to Hey Google.
  • I like a bit more variety. I have a Kindle Fire tablet, a Note9, an iMac, a PC Gaming Laptop, an iPod touch and Nano, a PlayStation 4, etc. But if it weren't for a few PC games, I'd probably have a MacBook Pro! That's literally the only reason I see to own a Windows machine for me, at this point. I actually returned my first PS4 for an Xbox One (cause brother wanted me on it instead of the PS4), but the console was so damn buggy that I returned it within ours to get back to the PS4... After I experienced the standby bug on XB1, I was freezing Xboxes in all the Wal Marts and Best Buys I went to, Lol. It was so easy to reproduce this, that I'm absolutely shocked the console ever shipped with the software in this state. Personally, I try to avoid Microsoft operating systems, these days. The quality of their software is atrocious. Now waiting on a fix from Intel/Asus for my Laptop, because Microsoft changed the driver model and my screen is now 6-Bit (instead of 8-Bit) unless I use an external monitor. Never had these kinds of issues on Apple devices (even Surface users are complaining about the inaccurate color reproduction, rendering expensive systems unusable for creative work that depend on decent color accuracy). On the flip side, I think the next console generation is likely to completely delete the need for a gaming PC at all (for me), along with advancements in mobile gaming, so I'll just get the next PlayStation and replace the Windows Laptop with a MacBook ;-)
  • It's not about individual enthusiasts. That's like Star Trek fans complaining about continuity issues in the latest series. Companies make products for audiences broader than a hardcore fanbase.
  • Jason, I see what you're saying. And since you and the WC team have access to info that most of us don't. What do you see as to what is needed to motivate MS to move forward with say a reported Andromeda device? They may not do anything that will pull resources from what is making them money.
  • I agree with this perspective to show off the best of Microsoft with the product. XBOX is really the only bright spot I see though with game streaming and Google is already out there making it happen.
  • I agree, Microsoft just needs to stop being greedy and make app publishing cheaper. Hell, 1st year should be free from any "microsoft fees". Let developers have more control with updates or just make all apps pwa's. fees is the biggest factor with the windows store.
  • Jason,
    I believe one of the key reasons why we haven't seen a Microsoft 'Andromeda' device yet, and they have 'dragged their feet' is deliberate timing, so they can time the launch of their product with the launch next year of the 5g mobile networks. Being in at the start and launching a new platform may give them a head start?
    5g will bring the increased bandwidth to run all the pc functionality cloud hosted Core OS? Also with the introduction of e-sims and smart provisioning the flexibility. Oh and could it also be sold as an OS as a service?
  • I am not so sure, more and more people move away from endless lists of apps and just do their thing on their phones and other devices, just because these thing are around them, no more, no less. I should like to say that it is important Microsoft just should get it's basics right. I now have an from hardware point of view very advanced Android phone that has only average integration in it's functionality (......apps), Wifi behaviour that is difficult to harness and has a mediocre update policy. Offer me a device that just works, and I would be glad. If it gets based on Windows Core OS then the developers will come, sure of that. But Microsoft, get on with it. The competition is looking as well, this takes again too long.
  • Enough already. You're delusional.
  • What's delusional about outlining why Microsoft failed in mobile, highlighting what made the now 11-year-old mobile model successful, identifying technological shifts impacting and influencing subtle changes in that model and suggesting how Microsoft should take advantage of those shifts to position a niche third mobile option?🤔 Insults are easy. Thoughtfully presented rebuttals or well articulated alternative thoughts take a little more effort, but they are welcome.😃
  • Well u've been doing that since years, but its clear MS isnt taking the same path as you may want or as you see it, so whats the point of the rehashed articles with same information.
  • Actually that's not true. If you go back and follow the narrative I've put forth I claimed since 2015 that MS was working on an inking focused mobile Windows 10 device with context sensitive software nd hardware, that would be more PC than phone. At that time the resistance from most who didn't accept that analysis, (some who have commented on this piece) was no, Microsoft is working on no such device. I laid out the evidence, articulated why I believed that was the case and still some refused to accept that MS was working on a Pocket PC strategy. As time went on, and patents and internal leaks began dripping in, and he Andromeda name emerged, Core OS etc, the naysayers switched thaiere tune, most with no public acknowledgement that they were wrong about MS working on a Pocket PC strategy. Now, the only rebuttal is Microsoft won't launch ot which is a possibility that I have acknowledged many times. My position, as I have made clear time and again, is that Microsoft was working on, even while Windows Phone was struggling, a Pocket PC strategy and device. That happens to be Andromeda which now many sites, even those that claimed MS was done with mobile, and writers who couldn't see beyond Windows Mobiles struggles finally acknowledge and can't seem to stop writing about or mentioning when a year ago they adamantly claimed (as some here) Microsoft 's not working on anything mobile beyond Windows-on-phones. Wimdows-on-mobile is the context I've shaped my analysis around, and they may or may not launh, but it accuraltey paints the picture of what Microsoft was/is doing with Andromeda as an ink focused Pocket PC with context sensitive hardware and software.😉
  • Yep. Cortana now does what some apps used to do hey? Well, if by that you mean '**** all' then perhaps you have a point... ROFL!
  • I think Xcloud is getting blown out of proportion. If people are betting on Xcloud to be a major feature for Andromeda to succeed I think they are going to be very disappointed. The majority of people are not gamers. Most people just want their apps to be available. And that is something Microsoft does not have because developers don't support the platform.
  • What app are those you mention? You know the apps that are not on the web I mean?
  • Most people never download any apps after purchasing a new device. Most people only use the same 10 basic apps.
    Why do gamers mean less than those few who are not "most people"...?
  • The horse has been beaten to death...we live in an Android and Apple world. There are times I miss my WP. Then I realize...it's isn't 2015 anymore.
  • I've been using an iPhone for a while...used a bit of Android but still miss the functionality and layout of Windows Mobile. And would switch back in a heart beat if they brought out a piece of hardware that does what it needs to without the clutter of the 2 primary OS's out there right now. It is a pain in the @$$ not being able to see information on your screen, just icons.
  • Then use widgets. They are fully interactive and more reliable. Live Tiles are almost useless compared to full function widgets.
  • Most apps do not offer decent widgits so the experience is inconsistent. Badge counts are also inconsistent. And I still haven't found a widget that will give me a live radar like a couple of live tiles used to do without opening the app. Ironic for a platform that has so many more apps than Windows.
  • True.
  • A quick search showed a few weather radar widgets. They were easy to find. Widgets will always be superior because they can be anything and fully interactive, not just randomly flashing images.
  • You forgot to add that Widgets also sucks that battery heard way more than Live Tiles ever did.
  • Yup.
  • Maybe in Android 2.3, but they have negligible impact now. Live Tiles have no advantages other than being uniform, which if you want a company telling you how and what to do, Apple does it better. That isn't what made Windows good.
  • Live tile home screen still the best and always will be. Far more useful and informative than widgets which I've tried on wife's horrible Galaxy S6+. I still have plenty of apps with great live tiles that give info I need at a glance.
  • I still prefer Live Tiles as well. As good as they are they had/have so much more potential.
  • You mean the ugly disgusting widgets? yeah, no thank you.
  • Well I don't miss WP. I still use it. It is 2018 and I still rock my Windows Phone! People still get my text, phone calls, I still use HERE on my device, still get all my emails, ... hey to each his/her own. Enjoy your iPhone or Android. If that makes you happy. Then you're golden. :)
  • I've always been a WP fan, but over the past few months services are shutting down. It was fine before, but I can't deal with a device that's digressing. My 950 will make a cool collectors item.
  • IPhone will never be relevant for me. I use an android phone daily, and it's constantly annoying the sh*t out of me. Whenever I can, I use my Surface Pro instead; if I could get a pocketable W10 device that could call and text, my android would be history...
  • Satya Nadella. He doesn't want. He was the biggest reason always, from the beginnig. He couldn't kill the platform suddenly so he did it with a slow way like a torture. WP platform was "a bad move for ms" he said at the beginning, several years before now. So genious he is. This is why.
  • Nadella has an iPhone
  • Nope. Lyin ******* is not gonna do anything.
  • If what Satya meant by "beyond the curve" a few years ago was a precursor to the foldable andromeda device we've heard about, unfortunately, he's waited too long to get ahead of the curve and is imminently about to be left behind again. Every major player, as well as a good number of lesser-known firms, are all heavily entrenched in foldable technology, and some are saying they'll have consumer-ready products available in early 2019. Samsung's CEO is telling the world to get ready for his foldable device. He's game on and stepping up. Satya's too busy writing another book about hitting refresh....again. Publicly, Microsoft hasn't even confirmed that Andromeda exists. They're leaving themselves plenty of wiggle room to step out of the foldable game. Crystal ball time... A number of foldable devices will launch next year, virtually all running Android. Some will be decent, but many will be rubbish and offer a poor user experience, coupled with a high failure rate. Uptake will be slow and most people will stick to regular smartphones. Microsoft will launch Andromeda. They'll tell everyone it's Enterprise focussed. We fans will buy it anyway. It'll have some cool apps, but mostly be a Surface Go with a hinge. It'll be premium, expensive and well received, but very niche. Then Apple will bring one out in 2020. It'll be well thought out and have very good build quality. It'll have a good app store. It'll cost the same as a family car. You'll need a second mortgage to afford it. The sheep will flock. It'll sell like hotcakes. In 2021 Andromeda will vanish and we'll be told that Microsoft isn't really into foldables and they're working on "the next curve" Tim Cook will pour another £10000000000 bottle of champagne into his bath and chuckle. The curve Satya was talking about 3 years ago happened in 2018. He's already late. No device. No official announcement of a device. No sign of a device. No one in Microsoft acknowledging a device exists. The end
  • It seems that your analysis is largely based on the concept of this being a foldable smartphone. The situation with Andromeda is more that it's a pocketable PC. The foldability is simply a method for getting a larger display in the pocket. The term "Pocket PC" is one Microsoft has used for ages and pointed to the target: A full PC that fits in your pocket. If they can achieve that with Andromeda, and I'll admit that it's a big "if," then they'll achieve something no one else is positioned to do. Google doesn't have a proper desktop OS. Apple keeps MacOS and iOS completely separate.
  • Jcmg62 That was actually funny😃! But as Dan12R points out, and what others seem to be missing is that what Microsoft's Surface Andromeda IF Microsoft delivers is just a folding phone. It seems everyone is putting it in the same category as say Samsung putting a hinge on a phone that doesn't have a PC capable OS,a context sensitive OS and UI such os Windows Core OS. With Microsoft, though MS can very well fail to deliver let's just make sure we're all having the same discussion. Andromeda is not a folding phone. It is categorically, and literally a pocket Windows Core OS PC that has telephony, and be unfolded as a Windows tablet, docked as PC via Continuum, folded as a ink focused digital journal. I wrote this article some months ago that stresses the differences between Microsoft's folding pocket PC and rival folding phones approaches. There are distinct differences so this is worth a read. Again I know as well as everyone else MS hasn't launched nor publicly confirmed Andromeda. What we're doing here is having an intelligent discourse about the different approaches Andromeda would bring ti the table versus a mere folding smartphone. Check out this piece: https://m.windowscentral.com/project-andromeda-and-folding-phones-are-we-beginning-end-slate-shaped-smartphones
  • Semantics will not win this fight, experiences will. It doesn't matter what Microsoft calls it, it just has to be absolutely amazing. Trying to say it isn't a phone is very risky. That could quickly turn into a joke. I can already see the memes.
  • Yep. And whatever amazing new device or category Microsoft comes up with will most certainly be done by the other big OEMs if they feel it's a worthy endeavor. They have just as much money and just as many talented engineers and designers working for them. Plus, Samsung, apple, and Google, in general, have huge numbers of users. On top of that, they have loads of apps and loyal, active developers. The world uses apps. It's gonna take a major shake up to change that.
  • Yet, people still use Windows everyday for whatever reason they need to use it for... The fact is that despite Android, and iOS, people still use Windows every single day, and by the boat load.
    Why do you think one more Windows PC on the market is a bad idea? Because it's too portable?... 🤔🤔🤔
  • They use Windows on a classic PC with a large screen, keyboard, and mouse. They do not, and will not, use Windows on a small touch display unless Microsoft has something new and disruptive. What can be new and disruptive on a small touchscreen? I don't know, and I doubt Microsoft does either.
  • Morning Jason :) All valid points and I take them onboard. But, assuming Microsoft follow through and actually launch a foldable, pocketable computing device with telephonic capabilities, it's going to be considered by the masses as a foldable phone and will be placed in the same mindshare category as every other foldable phone. We've always said that people who read technology journals and are daily visitors to tech websites do not represent daily users. So, by that rationale, there's only a very small percentage of people on this planet who will be educated enough to understand and appreciate the differences between a Samsung/HTC/Apple/OnePlus foldable device and a Microsoft foldable device. For the 99.9999999% of folk out there who have never heard of Windows Central, Mary Jo Foley or Paul Thurrott, all they'll see throughout 2019 and 2020 is a bunch of companies bringing out new foldable devices. And, assuming the masses want the technology and drive it forward, all they're going to want is the same things they get from their current mobile devices...apps they can use, an operating system they understand and hardware that looks and feels good. Microsoft is going to be competing against the big phone players, even if they don't want to. The risk here is that people might stick with what they know, even if it is a new form factor. Apple users are almost certainly going to stick with Apple's foldable whatever. And the same may be said for Android users. To win mind and market share, the only real weapon Microsoft had was time. They had the opportunity to get out early and create something people hadn't seen before. And they've not used that time effectively. Everyone else has caught up. So now what do they do?
  • Hi jcmg62: Thanks for the response. You say: "But, assuming Microsoft follow through and actually launch a foldable, pocketable computing device with telephonic capabilities, it's going to be considered by the masses as a foldable phone and will be placed in the same mindshare category as every other foldable phone." I think the fallacy in this argument and those who contend that Surface Andromeda being a PC is just semantics misses the larger context of marketing, positioning and the potential impact of always-connected PCs on carrier and consumer behavior and mindset. First, Surface Andromeda would literally be pioneering a new mobile PC category. As such it must not be assumed that it will be following the same marketing, positioning and distribution channels smartphones have. It would be easy for consumers to place it categorically in thier minds as a phone if it follows the same positioning model as a phone just with a pocket PC name. But suppose it follows the marketing, positioning and distribution model of PCs instead? Suppose Microsoft aggressively marketed it as a PC, with a digital inking focus, collaborative capabilities with Whiteboard, Teams, Skype, etc., able to be docked at a monitor and keyboard for a desktop experience, can stream games via xCloud, connect to your xBox like any other Windows 10 PC, connect to a HP lap dock-like laptop peripheral on the go (if you choose), open up to a Surface Go like tablet mode, integrate with your iPhone or Android phone with Your Phone, complemented with a narrative like "yes, while using Surface Andromeda's extra real estate for surfing and video leisure, or desktop productivity power, field all your phone notifications without taking your phone out of your pocket." Yes, this is a Windows PC for the mobile age." Then at the very end of an ad, or TV spot, show a phone call come through: Oh yeah, it makes phone calls too." Telephony in my estimation would not headline this device. It would fall to the background behind the PC positioning, but mentioned almost with an intentional afterthought tone, that its there if you want it. But it's not the focus. Surface Andromeda would be the next progression of Always Connected PCs. Current ACPCs are laptops and 2-in-1s where users have control of their data and carrier choice through Windows 10. They can change carriers virtually on the fly. This gives leverage to MS and Windows PC OEMs over carriers. Carriers want users to choose them so they have to get creative and compete for users attention to choose their data packages over another carrier. We've seen this beginning this year as I believe Sprint was offering free data if users purchased ACPCs from them. So we see a precedent potentially being set where carriers push ACPC hardware with data deals that are now in more consumer control. What happens as eSIM brings voice into the equation and not just data? Then, users through Windows 10, on Always Connected PCs can choose carriers voice plans. This greatly impacts the current carrier model. Makes it a lot more competitive. Users get a lot more control. Now imagine if that Always Connected Windows PC can fit in your pocket. Now, carriers that may have already shifted in their model impacted by laptop and 2-in-1 ACPC hardware that they are now accepting and beginning to support, will have to adapt to the impact of these smaller ACPCs that support voice. This isn't about the phone or the PC paradigm. Its about a PC category that potentially adds a new dimension to the communication and computing model as the two begin to overlap. I wrote about that in more detail here: Why Microsoft may gain the upper hand with carriers thanks to ACPCs https://m.windowscentral.com/how-cellular-and-telephony-enabled-pcs-will-give-microsoft-power-carriers So, yes carriers will potentially be one channel for this pocket always connected PC category that will be capable of telephony but not require consumers/businesses use it. But as PCs OEMs and Microsoft can also use traditional PC distribution channels such as business to business channels retail outlets and the Microsoft Store. It’s a PC so Microsoft and OEM partners can sell it to consumers and businesses as it currently sells PCs. So, deliberate and intentional marketing and positioning by Microsoft and OEM partners, complemented potentially by the impact of ACPCs in time on consumer, carrier and market mindset may help shape consumer and businesses expectations for this new PC category. I don't think it will follow the current smartphone marketing and positioning model as many seem to assume, but it will likely follow an intentional PC categorization, a new and fitting marketing and carrier dynamic and established and strong PC distribution channels. Now, though I believe this is likely the model Microsoft is positioning for if Andromeda launches, I will say that I am skeptical of its whole-hearted commitment to execute every facet of this strategy to ensure success. Do I think this us the strategy yes, I write about what I believe MS is doing and their desired outcome. But, I'm not certain the execution will match the strategy. Also read: How Microsoft could ensure 'Surface Andromeda' success "Consumers and businesses will need to want this device for reasons other than what motivates users to buy smartphones. Still, once in users' hands it must be capable of fundamental "smartphone" functions." Tapping into a different motivation to get mobile devices to users. https://m.windowscentral.com/what-your-surface-phone-aka-microsoft-ultimate-mobile-device-vision This is how Surface Andromeda should be marketed "Microsoft's ultramobile Surface should, therefore, be marketed as a PC." https://m.windowscentral.com/yes-surface-phone-should-be-full-pc-and-how-it-should-be-marketed
  • Hi Jason, appreciate you taking the time to respond :) Honestly, if MS is able to control the narrative and get people thinking about this as a different PC form factor rather than a "me too" folding mobile phone, then yes, it has a good chance of succeeding and is Microsoft's best hope of winning mind and market share in the mobile computing sector. And, if it really is that halo device that transcends across productivity, communication, gaming, entertainment, ebook reading, etc, etc and has continuum on board, it'll be a mind-blowing device, and quite possibly the most explosively cool thing Microsoft has done since the Xbox. I guess, in a future where Andromeda is a success, a happy headache Microsoft may face is cannibalism. Why buy a Surface Pro, Go, Book or Laptop when the thing in your back pocket does all that :) I wish them well. As a windows phone fan who's desperate to pack away his android device and return to one ecosystem, I really hope they smash this outta the park. But they'd better get a move on. Time kills deals, and the rest of the tech world isn't waiting on Microsoft to release a unicorn that has the potential to upend the mobile market. They have their own bag of tricks and could leave MS wondering where all the hype went if they leave it too long.
  • The original purpose of a phone call was to talk to someone that is not next to you. But phone conversations are becmoing less and less a part of daily communication. The smartphone has expanded the ways people can process info between different locations. I can use an app to perfrom all the tasks associated with renting an apartment (submit maintenance requests, pay rent, sign leases, etc.), which allows the renter to never have to physically go to the apartment complex office. In many ways, the old world analog industrial age information process has to change to realize the vast improvement in efficeincey in the digital information age. This requires information to be processed digitally. Thus Jason's comment about the integration of differnet tools, Pen, voice, mouse, keyboard, voice, touch into software and hardware is critical. Noone has a complete ecosystem that can "effortlessly" integrate all these types of inputs. Further no one device can efficeintly integrate all these inputs into a device for all use cases. For example. iOS and OSX are differnet. iOS is touch centric and OSX is mouse/keyboard centric. Plus, iOS apps do not play well with OSX applications. You can say the same with W10 and W10M. Will CoreOS provide the foundation to give differnet form factors with differnet emphasis on inputs allow people to process information simulataneously? Can MSFT build that ecosystem? Does the market need this ecosystem? While iOS and an iPad provide many compelling soltuions to infromation processes, iOS will still need to expand from a primarily touch centered ecosystem. Can this be simply solved in the cloud? Likewise, not having a mobile device for Windows to leverage the significant power in info processing available to the user has limited its relevance in a mobile centered world.
  • What you consider "PC-Capable" is not in line with how the majority of consumers use a PC - evident by many of them basically replacing their low end PCs with an iPad. They're called "Personal Computers" for a reason. Don't project your idea of what is "fine" onto the greater market. That's what got Microsoft into this position in the first place! I know people who do everything on iPads. Literally... everything. A Surface Andromeda, unless it's running Intel Specs, is not likely to be an improvement over an Android device (and certainly not an iOS device) in the realm of gaming and creative apps, for example. With the move to UWP, Microsoft is starting from the ground up with app ecosystem. They may be able to emulate some things (on ARM devices), but that's not going to perform as well, and the applications may still be badly optimized for mobile - which is the problem Windows 8.x and 10 have on the desktop: 1. Metro/UWP Apps on Windows 10 desktop/laptop systems are awful to use, because they're designed for Mobile devices. 2. Win32/64 apps are completely inviable on Windows 10 Mobile devices, because the UI does not scale appropriately.
  • Probably Satya has long ago moved on from what he said about being ahead of curve, they waited, it never came and MS too left but Jason's articles are still stuck there.
  • Wait for the day When Microsoft going to lose in the pc market also. chrome will take their place. Microsofts over confident ceo sadya nadiala is a piece of *****. who actually an apple fan boy.
  • I have been hearing this (Microsoft will lose the pc market) since the debacle of Windows Vista. And it never happened. People keep using Windows on pc's, no matter how bad they say the newest version is, they will keep using the previous one instead of jumping to macOS or ChromeOS. I am planning to live for some decades more, and I'm sure I won't see ChromeOS eating up Windows on pc's.
  • That has a lot to do with them not having a choice when they buy a PC. You aren't seeing many OEMs preloading Linux, for example. I certainly would entertain that, but I'm not into building my own PC and self-support; so I limp along with the lack of choice and bite my tongue. I am strongly considering a ChromeBook as a "general productivity" machine, though. I may go that route in a few months, and only use Windows 10 for gaming. I have my iMac for the other stuff.
  • Chrome sure doesn't look like it's taking over any time soon, and the hype over the mouse-less iPad Pro is just that. When you need to get work done, you need Windows. (Or Mac, or Linux.)
  • Outside US Chrome is a joke
  • Marketshare numbers speak otherwise. More people are moving to browser taps away from thick client PC apps, these days. IT's been going on forever. There's only a matter of time before it makes no sense to buy a $500 PC over a $300 ChromeBook.
  • Every large company, the same size as Microsoft, does continuously try to build bridges from its own strong sectors to the nearest sectors where the competitors do it better or even dominate. How to do it? Well, I think it requires outstanding efforts and several tries in order to create the perfect "missing link", that gradually expands services keeping the customers' fidelity. That is how we saw the rise of things like Chrome and chromebooks, Alexa and Fire devices, Ipad Pro and Apple Watch, Samsung Note and so on.
    In the Microsoft "territory" I see a lot of healthy regions linked by shiny bridges but, in the middle of that, the giant and amazing island of mobile happens to be left alone with no bridges at all.
    Is it really inside the Microsoft "PC city"? Well, mobile today is about pocket PCs, isn't it? I mean, it's obvious that the island is near since who lives there is already making shiny bridges towards the PC land (clearly one-way).
    I like Mr Ward's articles but I honestly find them not critical enough on this topic. No one should abandon his real territories just for the promise of a different one, maybe on some near galaxy. Mr Nadella would know it if he played Risk game some times :)
  • In order for Andromeda to work, it's going to require the whole of Microsoft to be behind it. This is a big mountain because by and large, the whole of Microsoft is only behind two products: Azure and Office 365. Not even Windows 10 makes this list (notice how many Microsoft products/services completely lack a UWP app but suspiciously have apps for other platforms). If they can get the whole of the company behind it, they're well positioned to make a massive change in the industry.
  • It's all about the hardware+software synergy. If they get it right, Andromeda could be a huge thing. Lot's of foldable devices are gonna appear, but just the lonely fact that we have the technology to fold the hardware these days, isn't enough on it's own to make such devices 'work'. So, MSFT still has a chance if they flat out nail this! :)
  • We already have hardware and software synergy. That is what the iPhone brought, great multi-touch hardware and software. Microsoft needs more than that. They need to be groundbreaking like the iPhone.
  • "Nadella was probably right in his early assessment that there was no room for a third mobile platform in the traditional slate smartphone sense." That's loser talk. Sounds like a kid on the playground that doesn't ever get picked and then claim I didn't want to play anyway. Loser talk. There is room. But there isn't room for bad or zero marketing. Look at some of the phones today that claim some new feature. Things that Microsoft had already done. They (MS) were just HORRIBLE in showcasing those features. The people I know want a Phone! A smart phone. Not some limp companion device. And certainly not some additional device they have to tote around. What disappoints me the most is that some of you have co-opt this losing mentality Microsoft espouses.
  • There wasn't room in development departments for a 3rd app ecosystem to support. MS lost on timing, not quality. They were just too late. The players were established and developers didn't care about a newcomer - definitely not from Microsoft that dominated their desktops and was mostly hated by tech types.
  • MS was a year late, to market that's grown hundred fold. They weren't late, they were just incompetent.
  • I've tried to stay out of these comments, but this is one that I have to respond to. The iPhone came out June 29, 2007, Android OS's first public release was September 2008. Windows Phone 7 was released Oct. 2010, so 3+ years after iOS, 2+ years after Android. Yes, way late....
  • Whodaboss: Think about it. The market is too entrenched for MS to succeed at this point with a phone. It won't work. But what I say they do is leverage the assets they have (Xbox, Cloud, Microsoft 365, Windows Ink, Teams, Windows Core OS etc), and slowly establish a niche mobile platform that showcases the best of Microsoft on optimal context-sensitive pocketable Surface hardware that does what it does extraordinarily well. It can't be positioned as a phone, one its not a phone, and also invested iPhone and android users won't want a phone. But a targeted market may want this unique powerful Pocket PC that does inking, gaming, collaboration, hopefully photography, very well and can also be a tablet and PC and just happens to have telephony and can connect to a users existing phones. The additional unfolded real estate of this unique always connected PC may end up being the device this target market chooses to surf the web with, play games on, answer emails, watch videos, etc instead of thier smaller smartphone. With Your Phone and other phone integration phone notifications will appear on, and can be addressed from this device while the iPhone or Android phone from which the notification originated remains in a pocket, bag or on a desk. See where I'm going here? It's not about a a co-opted losing mentality. It's about seeing Microsoft's only option of leveraging its assets to position a mobile alternative that can start as extremely niche but begin leveraging Surface Andromed's mobile positioning, and Windows and iOS/Android integration to begin a potentially and methodic Trojan Horse progression of this new always connected pocket PC form factor as a small but relevant OEM supported mobile category in time. It may work, it may fail, but doing nothing or going after a smartphone are guaranteed failures.
  • Now it is almost impossible, but 8 years ago Microsoft had a chance. Windows phone just wasn't strong enough to be the 2nd or even 3rd player.
  • I think to this point their only salvation could be xCloud and a device specifically made for it. Games are always devices that sell a lot of money.
  • I'm not against a "new" type of product. I'm not. In that past I would jump on anything new and shiny. The truth of the matter is I don't want to own an iPhone or Android device. I don't believe in them. I don't even find them all that good at all. I work with an iPhone. Our company upgrade just about every time there's an upgrade. And I still don't see the appeal. But that's me. I just don't fall for anything because everyone else is using it. It's a shame Microsoft doesn't really get they created something special. Or I should say Nadella. Please for the life of me stop quoting this guy. He sold us a bill of goods. I remember hoping Elop would be the CEO of Microsoft. And I see my assessment was correct. Because I believe Microsoft would still be in the phone business, and have other devices out by now had he been leading this ship.
  • The stockholders wouldn't be too happy. I bought in at 28 a share. Now I have made about five thousand in just Microsoft stock since Windows phone was ditched even though I am a huge fan. Was always a Lumia owner as well then recently switched to essential phone and square launcher. I missed live tiles so I had to find this launcher. Much recommended. Now I truly have it all. Apps and live tile functionality to some extent.
  • I agree that the smartphone is dead. Society needs to call these devices for what they are, either pocket pc's or mini-tablets. We should have moved beyond just apps by now-into Progressive/Universal Web Apps, but adaptation has been slow. I think because the industry is sort of measured by what Apple is doing and they've had such limited support for it, they'll maintain their users to stay on the App Store for as long as they remain relevant. I'm just tired of the "same old" and ready for what's next.
  • Why would Apple want people to use PWAs where they won't be able to control the way people pay for digital goods. They make a lot of money off the App Store.
  • Just give me a Pocket PC that I can put a SIM card in and make and receive calls as a bonus feature. I rarely even use my smartphone for calls anyway. 90% of the time I'm surfing or listening to music or texting. The problem Microsoft has now is a lack of trust. Can I really buy a device from them with the confidence that said product will be around in 5 years? I don't think so.
  • As Insiders, we should all put in an issue on the Insider Program that our Windows Phone OS is missing a new phone to run on. Have us all upvote it. This way Microsoft can fill the void and fix the problem.
  • Can all 12 of you get that organized?
  • They are going to release a phone for an OS they haven't actively developed for years?
  • The problem is the time it's taking to get Andromeda out. It seems core OS is the big holdup. Also the reason HoloLens 2 and Surface Hub 2 are delayed. Since they've been working on this for years now, and it's still not ready is troubling. Where are your priorities Microsoft? Haven't we learned anything from the tardiness of Windows Phone?
  • Microsoft folded in their mobile efforts because they couldn't stand being 3rd in comparison to the global competitors shipping millions of units. I don't think they understood how to scale-back the resources they had entrenched in the work of mobile hardware/software in order to repurpose it in pure focus of building out the ecosystem while stabilizing the software. I feel like if they could have accepted selling devices in the hundreds of thousands/low millions and adjusted accordingly, they could have sustained their mobile efforts until the mythical andromeda sees the light of day. When you are throwing million dollar budget at a thousand dollar market, of course your efforts will collapse. Unfortunately Microsoft is trying to understand hardware manufacturing against Apple who has been doing it longer and software against Google who is ultra competitive and adaptive while moving away from their old image in order to get the attention of a "please me now" audience. Good luck to them.
  • The answer is no, mobile PC is not something msft will succeed in. Just look at the state of tablet mode in W10. Its been 3 years, it still feels like a had beta...
  • I totally agree with the tablet mode in W10. It's actually touch-spiteful. I just can't see them coming out with a user experience that scales properly. Current tablet mode shows me they simply aren't competent enough to do it.
  • I think the idea with Windows Core is take out the tablet mode from Windows 10 and just have two different UIs, the desktop mode, the touch mode etc..
  • agreed, they get get a tablet mode right and fans here are excited at context sensitive auto switching and windows core etc, I'm sure the implementation will suck and MS will release a sub par version and take 5yrs to fix it meanwhile world would have moved on
  • Microsoft doesn't have a phone because Nadella sabotaged the one they had, full stop.
  • Microsoft doesn't have a phone because Balmer tried to be Apple and Google at the same time. They took the worst part of iOS (locked down ecosystem and devices) an combined it with the worst part of Android (reliance on third party hardware).
  • WP wasn't closed down, you could install any app outside from the MS store you wanted. You just had to run it in developer mode just like you can do today in Windows 10
  • WP was totally locked down all the way to hardware choice. Being able to run in developer mode doesn't change that. You can do the same with iPhone, doesn't mean it isn't locked down. Microsoft controlled apps, hardware, features, and UI. It was very inflexible, even for the manufacturers.
  • The problem with that is there is no source of apps to sideload. If I could find some, I'd try them out.
  • Hey Jason, If I were you, I would look somewhere else for a somewhat more suitable job; like maybe Dream Analysis, or Fictional Writing because you obviously love dreaming about a fictional device that MSFT has not even come close to mentioning. Until MSFT starts advertising Andromeda, then it's what we call a Unicorn in the real world. And if they do end up producing this so called Unicorn, then they've already proven that they can't commit to making it a success because it could very well be here one day and gone the next.
  • "MSFT has not even come close to mentioning. " Except in the internal Microsoft email that was leaked and written about back in June where Microsoft described Surface Andromeda Pocket PC device category as new and disruptive. The email further said it "blurs the lines between mobile and stationary computing." So we here all know MS has made no official announcements but the project is real, and may or may not make it to market as I and others have said time and again. So your cynicism about this actual device offers little. On a side note, I have some fictional writings in the works (true story) I'll try to let you know when they hit the shelves. I appreciate your confidence in my abilities to succeed there as well.😃
  • Then credible rumors came out saying that Andromeda was delayed or even canceled because it isn't compelling. "This is partially because of scheduling and quality, sources say, but more so because there's still no compelling reason for Microsoft to come to market with its current iteration of a small, dual-screen mobile device." https://www.zdnet.com/article/dont-expect-microsofts-andromeda-this-year... This article also claims the leak you mention was an attempt by employees to keep Andromeda from being cancelled. If Andromeda was revolutionary, we would have seen it this fall instead of hearing rumors that it is cancelled.
  • Hi bleached I'm not sure what point you're disputing or making, but your additions simply support my point. DeltaHotel's assertion was that Andromeda didn't exist, his exact wording "fictional device." So I provided information about an internal Microsoft email confirming its existence. Your additional information, information we're all aware of, ofcourse, and wrote about here on WC. Your ZDNET link, only further supports my assertion to DeltaHotel, Andromeda exists. You can't delay or cancel a "fictional" device. So thank you for your additional comments. Though they may have been intended for another purpose, they served to supplement my points to Delta. Hopefully now Delta, between you and I, has enough information to know that Andromeda is not fictional. Thanks.😉
  • Oh yeah I forgot about the unverified leaked email from MSFT. You can put your trust in unsubstantiated information like that, but as for me, I choose to stand on fact and not blather from the blogosphere. Good day to you though!
  • Actually Delta, that's just one source corroborating the projects and devices existence. We have others. 😉 Also you say: I choose to stand on fact and not blather from the blogosphere. Your assertion that the device is fictional due to your lack of first hand knowledge or what you deem a reliable source is inherently flawed. An individuals ignorance, or lack of knowledge, about something doesn't make that thing that he/she lacks knowledge about, unreal. You're taking your personal lack of knowledge about Andromeda and you're positioning it as a fact that Andromeda does not exist. That's flawed logic. Particularly in a situation where information is inherently withheld from the general public, but may be shared in part to some in the industry. The project and device exist. It may or may not make it to market like the McLaren and Surface Mini, but it's just as real.🙂
  • The same could be said of the Yeti, Sasquatch or the Loch Ness Monster!
  • Jason, Here's one for you that I think you'll enjoy! https://www.idropnews.com/news/fast-tech/samsung-just-revealed-its-folda.... So much for MSFT's Unicorn catching up with that bandwagon!
  • Thanks Delta, yeah I saw that. It's pretty cool what Samsung has achieved, of course we saw this coming right? We all knew Samsung's screen tech was ahead of MS and the rumor mill was buzzing with leaks on this device. I actually want one!😃 What you have to realize about my position here is I watch and like TECH, but as a WC writer I write about MS's strategy and position. And if you take a look at some of my work here I've written about Google's, Apple's, Samsung's and Amazon's strategy's as well. But this being an MS focused site, you'll find MS focused content. So, the achievements of another company don't surprise me, my eyes 👀 are on the industry not just Microsoft 😃! And Samsung's fulfilling our expectation and debuting this tech doesn't change my analysis of what MS has been doing, is doing and what I recommended at the end of this piece that they do.🙂 But thanks for thinking of me👍🏿
  • I feel it is an underestimation to today qualify iOS and Android as phone OSes only. Both Apple and Google will see to it that the respective will be fit for tomorrows hardware and be able to power a desktop setup. So, what is niche about all of this? Everyone is doing inking too these days. What the heck is Msft unique selling proposition going to be to get them a chunk in the market again?
  • That's a Gross generalization "Everyone is doing inking too these days". I use the pen on my Surface Pro pretty often. I've seen nobody else who has either a Surface or other devices w/pens (or pen capable) actually using pens. Nobody. So, while I DO believe popularity of this input method will grow as the technology and use-cases get better, I completely refute the idea that "everyone" is doing it.
  • You can buy Android, iOS, and Chrome devices with pen support. Most are superior to Microsoft's inking as well ( I have a Surface with the pen, iPad does it better and although I haven't used it, I assume Samsung's is better too). Everybody is doing it. I get your point though, and it is different than what the author is saying. Inking isn't a selling point, people don't care. I have a Surface with the pen and personally see no reason to use it. Inking is very niche.
  • Sorry , while I like the feel and tilt support of the Apple pen, every time I make a mistake and try to turn it over to erase with nothing as a result, it's just - stupid. I can take notes or sketch much faster with the surface pen than any other system.
  • Don't fool yourself. Microsoft isn't making a smartphone because Nadella hates consumer products. He hates that he has to deal with them. He'd rather only deal with Azure and Office and probably some AI for the coolness factor. He is looking for a way to get rid of all consumer products but some of them are just two successful to do it without destroying them first.
  • Still using my lumia and loving it. Cortana works great. My favorite feature is text2voice+voice2text hands free through the bluetooth car stereo.
    My wife lamented she wasn't able to get all the coupon apps on her lumia WP so I got her a Samsung Galaxy. She doesn't like it, finds it terribly confusing, and quirky (says "sending" for texts when they are already sent. That along with the gazillion icons, confusing navigation, and a maze for billions of settings. My settings screen has a search field :). "V..P..N" boom!! -> VPN settings, connecting!!!
  • It would be nice if a significant professional service provider (accountant, lawyer, investment advisor) was able to provide presentations that automatically (when I am in the room attending a meeting) display on my Surface, which allows me to make notes to each slide. Why should I have to log in/receive an email when they know I have accepted an invitation to the briefing? So things like Teams, Surface Hub, OneNote, Pen input, Cortana and Office have to be integrated in the cloud. The enterprise provisions their resource to leverage a tighter relationship with their customers, employees and vendors. Will this be done through CoreOS? There is a lot more work to do that will allow MSFT (and their competitors) to really break down the barriers between old school (here is a paper handout of the presentation I am projecting on a screen) and new school (open your device and all the info is displayed, the conversation is transcribed, your notes via pen are included, etc.) Is this a mobile/pocketable PC? Or just a group of devices with different form factors that emphasize different use cases but essentially provides the same manipulation of info? Again, I am one of many in a briefing. The guy giving the briefing has a Surface Hub, through which someone in a different country (via a Surface Hib) can participate while someone in the room is using a Surface to make notes. A foldable pocketable device is just one more avenue for this information process to integrate other participants (I am in transit headed to a customer's office).
  • They still need developer support. Just bringing a device to market will not leverage it's relative strengths if the developers are not already there to help provide that. A folding in your pocket PC will not be the game changer as the touch screen was.
  • I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong in saying it's not a matter of semantics. It absolutely is. What we've observed is merely evolution of the device. But it can still be boiled down to the basic aspects that have existed almost from the very beginning. Processing of information, entertainment and connectivity. Early on, connectivity was rudimentary via connecting a sync cable between the PDA--which brought us mobile processing of information and entertainment--to our host computer. Eventually, connectivity evolved to include wireless capability, and then later cellular. As has always been the case, all of this drove improvements, evolution of the processors, screens, GPU, storage, etc. So, I don't really care what you call the device. Whatever Microsoft or Samsung or whomever comes out with, it will merely be a continued evolution of these basic functions. We will use some sort of mobile device to communicate in multiple forms, process our information and entertain ourselves. What remains to be seen is what FORM FACTOR the successful devices will take. We'll see what Samsung is about to announce, but I seriously doubt the tech is there yet to give a device that magically gives us large screen real estate that also TRULY fits in a pocket (Nothing I've seen is remotely close). And will they be devices that are attractive AND affordable? I doubt either will be the case for some time. I'm certainly not about to pay $1000 for a mobile device.
  • Samsung and Android have an ecosystem for modern devices from 1" to 100". Microsoft doesn't. They only have an ecosystem for legacy PCs, 12"-30", with a keyboard and mouse. Microsoft have no way to create a small touch screen device with an ecosystem. Samsung's device will run circles around them. Windows phone's total failure makes it so Microsoft has no chance in touchscreen. They will effectively be competing blindfolded and with their hands tied behind their backs.
  • Isn't there a charity 5k you could be training for?
  • that's complete bullshit you *******.
  • I disagree with a lot here. First, the lack of room for a third platform. Maybe that was true in some countries, including the US (i.e. most of the point of view of a lot of mobile developers), but in a lot of countries W10M had a market share not that far from IOS, and growing.
    MS haven't "failed miserably", they just abandoned halfway. Mobile usage has shifted toward PC, and that where WM was good at. "Moving against the inertia of that system is difficult but it's happening …slowly."
    Yes, but that would happen faster if developers had 3 platforms to maintain instead of 2 ;) MS is now waiting for a paradigm shift they might have been a leading part of.
    Nadella took some good decisions, but retiring WM wasn't one.
  • Microsoft mobility strategy is productivity on the Go. With Surface headphone, a whole day battery sufficient large screen estate with LTE, for business, for creativity, for education, for game through Xcloud, that is the paradigm shift.
  • Microsoft was, has been and always will be completely clueless when it comes to understanding this market.
  • These days I just wish MS would focus more on some their software products. Their slow progress on Planner and Todo makes it easy to continue to use Android and IOS products. I purchased a lumia 550 just try Todo and soon abandoned it after general frustrations with trying to use the Office apps offline. I've also banned myself from cheap win tabs to avoid future upgrade issues. Even so, I still use my Mobile Pro 900 because its small clam shell is supper portable and I can touch type on the keyboard which has old fashioned clicky keycaps. :D The slow and darkish touchscreen continues to irk, but I can bang out a lot of text on it with just pocket word and I have the fuller featured softmaker office suite as well. I can even use some reference files with the built in browers and 3rd party browsers and players I bought. I went all in, using the modem and a nic card for net stuff way back when. I now have a GPD pocket and two usb keyboards I really like. I also bought a broken screen Vaio P but need more instructions before finishing the screen swap. Even if fixed, I don't know how I'll feel about the chiclet keys. I'll be all over a modern melding of the MP 900 and Vaio P form factors, though it will likely means joining a kickstarter or indigogo campaign.
  • Seems to me To-Do is maturing quite quickly.
  • I think ToDo was an iOS software app? There was a company they bought that was an iOS app. I think they had to rewrite the foundations of the software to integrate into the Windows ecosystem that met the security protocols of its global system. MSFT is releasing software that meets this global security environment. Thus after spending 2 years rewriting the guts of these apps, they can now start building out the pretty stuff.
  • Whatever the many reasons for the demise of Windowsphone I think Microsoft didn't love mobile enough. It was stuck in its revenue earning PC business at the moment it was dying. Microsoft didn't just trash mobile. Mobile was about ecosystems. It trashed the success of consumer services. There aren't any of those any more unless you use the Xbox. They moved on to break their PC store idea. A Universal Windows Platform store is only useful if its universal. Without a mobile platform, a mobile store on a PC is not that useful. Now the Store has re-invented itself as "wrapper central" to find all the apps you have never needed. The next stage of not having an ecosystem is that Google and Apple have. Their apps infrastructure comes as default. Certainly, people can find Microsoft apps on Android or IOS but it's not just there by default. Cortana tells you this. An application almost no one uses on a PC but would be useful while mobile. Result - people use Google Assistant because it's there! Ambient computing. Great. In the UK there are no Cortana speakers so I have Alexa. It's a good thing I do because the Alexa skills support my Nest thermostat. The point is that Microsoft's retreat has now led to people drifting away from Microsoft services. Microsoft make their position worse because many things are US customers only or are of lower functionality outside the USA. I dislike my Android phone. I would dislike an iphone. However, that's the choice. I am over it. I can't see myself buying an Andromeda device because, phone or not phone, it has no compelling applications in an ecosystem I use on the move.
  • I still have yet to come across a tablet or smartphone to take a pcs place. If you are attached to your computer ( for me laptop) at the hip, neither of those has turned into viable solutions. I'm talking about for gaming, word processing, creative programs, programming, and a host of other things. Even apps on mobile devices that resemble those on pcs are half of what you can do on laptops and desktops. And the small screens aren't enough especially for gaming or design where you need to hone in on details at a bigger picture. Windows and Microsoft in general always faulter on ideas but wind up coming back. Phones never shouldve been their market anyways. I tried a Windows phone and hated it. I also would never buy a windows 8 pc. But that went for Vista, ME and a few others. But they struck gold with XP, 7 and 10 strikes an ok balance. The path their taking now with Windows being subscription based is where I may duck out. I'm also an Android and Mac fan. I think Androids were made for mobile computing and Macs are a creative professionals dream machine. But Macs also lack widestream game developer support even now. Android only has its app games but most are riddled with ads or in app purchases. And I always hated apples app store. I've tried a Google chrome and couldn't get half the apps I wanted, so I only have bad impressions of their os. Surprisingly I'm rooting for Linux as I have been for years and may finally start using it primarily for main computer and my other for Windows if I stick with 10. Since Linux now is capable of running Windows apps in different ways. I guess my point to this long rant is every big company Google, Apple, Microsoft etc has had strong points for swaying different people in different directions and if you have the money it's worth owning devices from more than one. I think Windows will continue to dominate actual pc market for awhile for most users. Apple will continue to dominate for creative industry and through their tablets and smartphones. Android and it's father Google will continue to be a force in mobile all on its own. I'm hoping Linux eventually captures bulk of industry and stays free, given that it's run on passion by devs. I'm also one who thinks Samsung is overrated among others. I own an LG V20 and think it's best phone I've had. I own 2 Sony's and although their reviews trashed them compared to the pixels, galaxys and iphones I found them awesome. I think Apple os takes little risks, it is very accessible and likely most appealing but at least the competition changes stuff up once in awhile. And people forget that some companies use their competition for some of their tech, one example is Samsung having contracts with LG. The only tablets I've really cared for were the Toshiba excite and thrive because that had what others don't ports that pcs have - mini HDMI, usb a 3.0, among others. I don't like the direction phones are going being sealed for sake of water resistance. I'd rather have a easily swappable battery. Yeah on some I can take phone apart and replace cause I'm a repair tech but that's inconvenient. And if you dip your phone in water causing damage you need to be more careful with your high tech toys. Removing head phone jacks are also annoying. But then again I see how industry is going, they are basically building phones to last more or less a span of two years like most contracts and then the phone has issues and people are upgrading every couple of years. Meanwhile I have a BlackBerry from 2010, 2 Sony's from 2016 going strong, LG shows no signs of slowing down, Have 2 Gateway computers over 10 years old ( this is a brand everyone bashes nonstop) and my new Acer from 2016 shows no signs of one problem. All this explains why a lot of people are buying older devices.
  • All Andromeda will be is a Pocket Office365 Device. That is all I can say without breaking my NDA. No 3rd party development interest exist. UWP and Progressive Web Apps will not be there to help. The real question is will a Pocket Office365 Device be enough? For the Enterprise maybe, for consumers - DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH!
  • Without some large enterprises going all in and ordering said devices, I see that failing like a playstation phone and an amazon phone
  • Might as well not bring it to light.
  • Depends on what you want from a Pocket O365 device. With the mobile apps on an Android phone you can preview documents and do light editing already. If you carry a 6inch iphone or Samsung Note then you have a Pocket O365 device with a couple of apps. Someone will buy it. Someone will have a usage case. For most people carrying a mobile phone they wont see the point.
  • No new phone? Well goodbye from my Samsung galaxy S8 Android phone...
  • I also am always going to choose Google play over Apple store cause most of the time I'm going to find an alternative program for free or less than the competition. Which is also a problem with Androids store its oversaturated with apps as in indie developer I'm more likely to choose Windows store or Amazon for my app launch simply cause their list is more empty and barren. And as strong as Apples store is, I've worked with someone who was releasing an app on it and call it them preferring extensive quality but their screening process is too anal for most devs. They are a nightmare to develop an app for.
  • The phone market has already determined the winners and MSFT is not one of them.
  • Jason, you need some new material. We've known for a long time MSFT isn't making a new phone. You can probably guess by now some are upset, some aren't. We're all waiting to see what they unveil. Some will be upset, some won't. And then you can write the same article with the title that says, "Microsoft has built a new device that isn't a phone, even though some wanted one." It just isn't worth writing about anymore until whatever it is actually comes out. But, you definitely know how to connect a lot of words in different ways to constantly create new material about the same old thing that leads to a non event that can't stand up to the hype... Kinda like WhartonBrooks
  • Hi tpsea. Thanks for reading (I assume you read) or at least commenting. Diverse opinions are welcome. Also in your zeal for sarcasm you seem to have an easily refuted narrow understanding of the content of my work: Here is a link to my portfolio of WC articles that covers a WIDE range of topics, from A.I., Cloud, Surface Headphone, Google Home Hub, Amazon ALexa, 5G and MUCH more: www.windowscentral.com/author/jason-ward We're have you been!?! 😃
  • I hate to be a naysayer, because I loved my assorted Windows Mobile/Phone/back to Mobile phones, Zune, Bands, etc. But the fantasy ended a long time ago, and I finally stopped playing the part of unwanted consumer customer months ago. Andromeda is a close to reality as sending a human to its namesake. As for WPA, I doubt it will be the savior for any Microsoft platform people want it to be. The #1 obstacle is that the rendering and execution engines powering Edge/IE are not what everyone else is using. Multiple times a week I have to kill a non-functional-in-Edge site and reopen it in another browser (Opera and Brave are my current go-tos), where I have zero problems. It's tiring. (It's worth nothing that these Edge problems are all but non-existent on non Windows platforms, because Microsoft is using the engines native to the other platforms.) Realistically, every platform has its share of quirks to deal with. But anything mobile and browser related, unfortunately Microsoft wins the prize.
  • Yes, agreed, andromeda is a unicorn, chased by the delusional. Nadella would never allow it because his android puppet masters are pulling his strings.
  • Andromeda will be too late since the So called new it was suppose to bring to the market has already been done by several companies on the Android platform. Andromeda is just another way to attract readers and traffic for this site so it can generate revenue from it...
  • Microsoft and Satya simply doesn't care about anything outside of the enterprise.
  • Microsoft isn't making a smartphone because no one wants one. Me included. I used to have Windows phones, in fact I still have a couple. I just don't use them anymore, outside of occasional use as clunky MP3 players. 1.5 billion phones sold last year. If "Smartphones are dead", then Windows PCs are already buried, having sold around 250 million last year.
  • Yeah talk about serious denial issues here man
  • Well I'd be somewhat tempted to buy a Microsoft made Android phone, but no matter how much you try to 'Redmond' an Android device at the moment, you can't really do it. They'd have to fill in the app offerings regards a dialer, contacts manager, maps, photos, sms app etc etc. It's a frustrating half and half world at the moment.
  • That time has passed. It's time for something better. The question is can Microsoft deliver? yes lol
    yes an OEM will use Windows Core OS Make a smartphone.
  • To this day, I am still sadden by Microsoft ending Windows 10 Mobile, but I believe in what you believe Jason; that is Microsoft will build a variant of Windows 10 that will work on all form factors. When Microsoft does this, there will be no need for a special phone OS and special phone app ecosystem that is different from desktop. This will be better in the long run. Windows 10 Mobile came close to this goal, but still had a ways to go. In fact Windows 10 Mobile got close enough for me to consider it a major achievement in software engineering. I say that knowing how hard it is to get things to be similar than it is to get things to be different. I work with other developers that work on a different application. They have a dialog that is just like one in another application. We can't even get these two versions of essentially the same dialog to look the same! I look at Windows 10 Mobile and I see how Microsoft got W10M so similar to W10. It is actually quite beautiful. This is evident when looking at Settings; and it is evident in UWP apps built to target mobile and desktop. I believe their next attempt will be even more beautiful. Even more unified. I love W10M simply because I admire and respect the software engineering. I believe Microsoft will continue to produce an awesome Windows Core OS to will bring us forward into the future where the lines are blurred between mobile and desktop.
  • Sir I concur 200%.Yes there are hiccups and yes the path was cumbersome but they are getting nearer and closer to the end target. I do hope they will take the necessary time so they can start releasing with version 3 , not version 1. It will be flabbergasting and it will be a paradigm shift, one of the likes you only see once every 20 years.
  • Methinks Microsoft should just give up on the dream of a pocket pc. And just focus on laptops. Let google and Apple dominate that mostly consumer focused market. The minute they release a phone/formerly known as phone WallStreet will pummel them. Right now they’re killing it with 2 in 1 laptops, Azure, and Office 365. Just stick with the winning formula folks and let everything else slide.
  • They need to shrink Windows 10 into a 7 inch and under form factor to start things off. Whether it is a SnapDragon 835 or an Intel i3, the price has to be cheaper than the flagships of the mobile manufacturers.
  • Microsoft has to retrace it past and at the same time cut with when if they want to enter the mobile space successfully. If Microsoft ever reenters the mobile space, they have to provide a versatile OS like WinMo 6.5 with the combination of the buttery smoothness of WinPhone 7.5. They should however never ever try to push the clumsy, unchangeable and unrefined shell of Windows Phone era down our throats. Besides, they should forget any association with WINDOWS in the name.
  • What happened to WindowsPhone is so simple that it hurts just talking about it. I had 3 and a Surface RT. Apps. Outside of the normal big ones like USA Today etc, no one made WP apps. New games were coming out and they weren't interested in making them for WP's. No instagram, snapchat etc, the apps you need if you want to grow your base. Microsoft had the money to get these ppl to make an app but said no because they wanted companies to want to make the apps for WP. Now we are getting articles like this. You guys keep waiting for everything to come around back to Microsoft.
  • You better get your facts straight. Everything was moving in the right direction, however with the release of windows mobile MS effectively killed their own os. Once users, app makers and phone manufacturers realized this they all jumped ship.
  • I think they went from windows phone 6.5 to windows phone 7 to windows 8.0 to W10M. In each case they flushed all the work of the previous generation. iOS has not done this (in my understanding).
  • WP7 did not support C++, basically meaning any ports of games would have to be completely rewritten. WP8 broke compatibility for developers, forcing them to remake apps. WP8 finally brought C++ support, but still no OpenGL ES (2.0) support, which still meant a lot of work for porting games. WP8.1 brought new functionality, but it was only available with another compatibility break for developers. WM10 did the same. UWP still does not support OpenGL ES (or Vulkan). MS was falling further and further behind and kept putting up barriers to developers, no wonder they didn't make it.
  • Microsoft needs to make app publishing on the windows store free for 2 years. If developers join azure like Walmart, they should do a discount in the windows store. im surprised Microsoft hasn't made a walmart app for the windows store. I think Microsoft needs to make app publishing cheaper. If i was the ceo of Microsoft, I would undercut google and apple in developer fees. Updates should be easier and developer would have more control with that. microsoft is a 800 billon dollar company, they can afford to make app publishing cheaper.
  • MS is not making progress in mobile. That much must surely be accepted. Why? Because nadella was completely and knowingly wrong and should have been fired for his incompetance when he is said to have maintained that there was no room for a third OS. Nadella screwed up and has never paid the price for that incompetance.
  • More and more business processes have moves away from a pc to apps on a phone. I have to switch to android or ios simply to be able to do business with my customers. If MS releases the best piece of hw tomorrow the lack of decent apps for windows will make sure it won't sell. No matter how much I would like to buy it, I can't afford to ignore all my customers who are up to their elbows in android or iOS apps. MS has decided to abandon this market and will pay for it dearly in the long run. Nothing left for them to do to fix this.
  • yeahhhh Sap is only available on smartphones, refineries, electricity plants, automotive factories they are all on smartphone operated process control systems. ERP sales systems are developed on smartphones, not on PC's any longer. Enjoy your universe on planet wishful thinking....
  • To be sure... there will never... no never... be anything as satisfying and complete an experience as typing on a real keyboard. There will never... no never... be anything as satisfying and complete as gliding through documents, websites, and productivity centric apps with the aid of a mouse and scroll wheel. The keyboard & mouse combo is as irreplaceable to personal computing as the steering wheel is on my Chevy. I predict that one day... and soon... we will all lay our tiny phones aside where they belong - on their charger - as soon as we walk through the door of our home, much the same as we take off our shoes and lay them by the doormat. Our thin, lightweight, ultraportable 2-in-1s will be the ones to sit by us as we watch TV. They will follow us into the kitchen, the garage. We will answer incoming messages on them. Phones will fade in importance as all fads and fashion must. But the laptop will live to times indefinite. The keyboard and mouse will reign supreme.
  • Really, I wear hearing aids ($2500 for the pair). They can connect via bluetooth to my phone. Why would I need to ever touch my phone except to look at a screen and interact with prompts? Provided I have a microphone available with my hearing aides, all I would have to is respond to a voice prompt, (you have a call from ...). I would just have to say, "answer". "You have a text, shall I rad it?" yes. Would you like me to read the email from .....). But to make this work, the ecosystem would need to know I am sitting at my desk and deliver the text to my computer screen and let the email go to my inbox. How does one make the system smart enough to know this?
  • Have to say having tried several Android phones I have now reverted back to my Windows Phone 950XL which is way and above the Android Operating System. I do not have a need for a plethora of apps that are duplicated over and over. The 950XL offers many other advantages especially when coupled to car radio via Bluetooth.
    Incidentally I have just had a number of app updates so Microsoft and others are still supporting the platform.
  • I wonder if MSFT recieves enough telemetry to see how many people switch back and forth between platforms (apple to W10M) etc.
  • There's a big mistake in your article Jason. You put Apple and premium hardware in the same sentence.
  • There wasn't room for a third Desktop OS player until Google thought differently and gave us ChromeOS. There's room for a third but MS need to think differently.
  • ChromeOS is fourth.
  • I'd argue people didn't want Windows Phone because it was missing too many apps and the Live Tile interface didn't ressonate. It still doesn't despite being in Windows 10. I don't mind it there as it's just the Start Menu but as an entire interface no way thanks.
  • Incorrect MS should sell it as a PC because to the public PCs are boring. Apple sells a few PC categories but you'll never see them use the word.
  • Microsoft Just needs to quit thinking about their small time cohabitation era with Nokia that thrust them into the Smartphone world and think ahead. An introduction of a Surface into the their Current Surface line of Products will complete the missing link. Nothing beats Windows OS. That is why it is the number one Operating system in may a PC. Microsoft just needs to bring that same experience to a Mobile device and make it overwhelmingly likeable; embark on proper marketing and the Surface Phone will come alive. Look at the way folks are investing in Surface PCs yet their prices are over the roof. I'd probably go for refurbished one since a new one is way over my budget. I must admit, it feels good to hold a Surface device in your hands. The few I have sold got me thinking over my love for a Thinkpad laptop PC I own. The battle within me still rages on. My pockets have tames me though.
  • More busytalk... 😂
  • I really REALLY need a new Microsoft phone.
    I'm using for three months an Android phone that is a lot more expensive than my 550 was and it is the worst experience I ever had with a phone.
    The UI is redundant and stupid. What are they thinking? I really need a new Microsoft phone. I want to cry :(
  • Eh in all honesty then Launcher 10 on Android can more or less give you the same experience. The privacy however....
  • There are groups of People the Surface Andromeda and other folding 1 or 2 screen smart phones will appeal to. 1= People who want to work with a lager screen than most smart
    phones have. I am in that group. 2= People who do not want to carry 2 devices a
    laptop & smart phone 3= People who want a device that best interface with their Job's
    or at home Windows PC The Andromeda device will surly be for People who want to
    work with a larger screen than a regular smart phone has and people who desire a
    device that will interface easily with their Job's or home Windows PC. The Andromeda
    Device may not replace a Laptop & Smart phone for most folks but might for
    a few folks. it will be OK for those who want a device with a large screen and will
    interface with Windows PC's. there will be People who buy the Andromeda
    device for these reasons
  • I had a Nokia Lumia 710 Windows Phone in 2012-2015. I probably would've upgraded to a 520 but app gap was just too large by 2015. It's why I jumped ship to Android however the Outlook, Word and Onedrive apps for Android are great.
  • Keep the dream live Jason! I am with you! Love-Hate MS
  • "This shift is good news for Microsoft ..."? I think this shift was rather pushed by Microsoft. The rumors about Andromeda at Microsoft suggested the development of a category defining device in this direction. Microsoft has an existential interest in the continued existence and further development of the PC. Nor can I imagine a PC without Microsoft. Seen in this light, the manufacturers of smartphones are trapped in Microsoft.
  • I've never understood Microsoft's foray on an ARM-based device. This was at a time of irrefutable partnership between Microsoft and Intel. Today, the ARM is perfectly PC-enabled. So Microsoft would never have had to step up to the ARM smartphone bandwagon. Let's look ahead. That's where we find the new Microsoft.