When Google talks about foldable phones, does it mean Surface Duo, too? Yup.

Surface Duo 2 Galaxy Z Flip
Surface Duo 2 Galaxy Z Flip (Image credit: Daniel Rubino/Windows Central)

Surface Duo 2 Yelp Googlemaps

Source: Daniel Rubino / Windows Central (Image credit: Source: Daniel Rubino / Windows Central)

A few weeks ago, Google announced Android 12L, which was previously known as Android 12.1. According to Google, the OS update is due sometime in the first half of 2022. But what makes it a big deal is this iteration of Android is the first to really focus on foldables and dual-screen devices.

Yes, I said dual screen. Despite the light-on-details PR blog mentioning foldables, many have tried to decipher that Google means phones like the Samsung Galaxy Fold 3 and not Microsoft's Surface Duo. After all, if Google intends to include dual screens, why not mention it?

It turns out Google does. Let's go through the developer guides to settle this once and for all.

How Android "sees" Surface Duo

Source: Windows Central (Image credit: Source: Windows Central)

Before we get started, I want to clarify something about Surface Duo (currently on Android 10) and Surface Duo 2 (currently on Android 11). Both operating systems "see" these phones as single-screen devices. Indeed, on Android 11, the OS now draws the gutter — the physical space between both screens. You can see this in screenshots where you get the whole canvas.

A lot of the "magic" with Surface Duo and dual-screen apps is a combo of Microsoft Launcher, firmware, and, increasingly, Android itself. A lot of what Microsoft is doing today on Surface Duo is being built-in to future iterations of Android. That's the big news.

As a side commentary, I believe this is one reason Microsoft is not heavily investing in customizing Android to maximize Surface Duo's efficacy today. While the user experience currently lags compared to the vision, it is clear from Android 12L that Google is baking a lot of this stuff into the OS. If Microsoft were to invest resources into OS customization, it would be redundant and useless within a year. Why invent the wheel when someone else is already doing the work for you?

What is Android 12L?

12l Multitasking

Source: Google (Image credit: Source: Google)

Android 12L, according to Google, is "a special feature drop that makes Android 12 even better on large screens." More specifically, the OS update optimizes the system UI for new form factors and gives developers new tools (APIs) to improve apps for foldable displays. It's the formalization of what Samsung, Microsoft, LG, Huawei, and others have been forcing to happen over the last few years.

The motives should be clear as to why Google would want to implement these variations. Samsung is driving a lot of this with its Fold and Flip series of phones. Microsoft is there, too, with Surface Duo. But Google expects more devices in 2022, noting that this feature drop is timed "for the next wave of Android 12 tablets, Chromebooks, and foldables."

Even Google is rumored to make its own foldable phone(s) next year, presumably launching with Android 12L.

Features like a two-column notification shade with notifications on one side and Quick Settings on the other are one example of a UI change. The ability to span apps and have apps shift over to one side of the display is another. This latter ability is what Microsoft does today on Surface Duo, but instead of being part of Launcher and firmware, it can be built directly into the OS. Google Play will also highlight apps that are optimized for these new form factors.

You can read more about it from Google's 12L summary, but it's in the developer documents where it gets interesting.

Google defines foldables as including dual screens

But Google just talks about foldables, right? That's the wrong question. What you should be asking is: How does Google define foldables? Because the company gives a definition.

Let's start with Google's Material Design 3 — the next evolution of its UI aimed directly at "adaptive experiences." On its page, Google thoughtfully characterizes the term, which I think is essential for this conversation. When it comes to foldables, here is the direct definition, explicitly referring to hinges:

There are two types of hinges on folded devices:

  1. Seamless hinges are barely visible, although some users may feel a tactile difference on the screen surface
  2. Hinges that physically divide the device effectively into two screens

Point #2 is the most relevant and seemingly ends the discussion: Foldable includes dual screen. But if you want more, Google goes on to say:

In an unfolded posture, the device's folding hinge can be noticeable on some models. In the unique case of Microsoft's Surface Duo, the hinge divides the screen physically.

Android Material Design 3 Dual

Source: Google (Image credit: Source: Google)

So, Google calls out Surface Duo when talking about the new Material Design 3. Google then gives examples of how developers should design their UI around such constraints:

On devices with a physical hinge, designing the screen as two distinct halves allows a composition to work well across the seam and screens … Avoid placing key actions, such as dialog buttons, along the center hinge.

The complete overview of Material Design 3 is highly fascinating, so I encourage you to read it if you're interested in this topic.

Turning to Android app development and 12L, Google lays out quite a lot in its Android developer guides. Here are some samples explaining foldable and dual-screen:

Under "Learn about foldables:"

Foldable devices can fold in many ways, such as inward (with the display folding into the interior of the device) or outward (with the display wrapping around the device). Some foldables have two screens; others, such as foldable flip phones, only one.Foldable devices have a fold in the display that separates two portions (typically halves) of the display. The fold has dimension and can separate the two portions with an occlusionType, which defines whether the fold occludes part of the display (a full occlusion is reported for dual screen devices).

This occlusionType is essential, as this is what helps define that software gutter for dual-screen devices like Surface Duo. It's again referenced under "Make your app fold aware," where the documentation gives further information on what "foldable" refers to:

A FoldingFeature is a type of DisplayFeature that provides information related to the fold of a foldable display or the hinge between the two physical display panels of a dual-screen device.A FoldingFeature also includes information like occlusionType, which indicates whether the fold or hinge conceals part of the display, and isSeparating, which indicates whether the folding feature creates two logical screen areas. This information can be used to decide where to position on screen elements to support dual screen devices and avoid positioning active elements like buttons on occluded folding features.

More references to Surface Duo are found under Jetpack WindowManger, specifically under the codelab section, which gives a tutorial on building such apps:

This practical codelab will teach you the basics of developing for dual-screen and foldable devices. When you're finished, you'll be able to enhance your app to support devices like the Microsoft Surface Duo and the Samsung Galaxy Z Fold3.

As should now be evident from Google's definitions and examples in the official Android documentation, dual-screen devices are a subset of foldables. Android 12L goes a long way to formalize this distinction in the OS, apps, and UI.

Microsoft also has a blog that summarizes what's new in Android 12L (opens in new tab) and how it ties into its own work to help developers, which is worth a read.

Surface Duo and Android 12L should be exciting

Surface Duo 2 Pen Onenote Inking

Source: Daniel Rubino / Windows Central (Image credit: Source: Daniel Rubino / Windows Central)

Hopefully, this walkthrough has sufficiently demonstrated that Android 12L, and future versions of Android hardware, absolutely include dual-screen devices under the rubric of foldables. I don't see this as debatable once one reads the supporting documentation (and not just a PR blog summary).

Of course, none of this means Surface Duo suddenly turns into a slam dunk. Microsoft needs to address touch sensitivity issues sooner than later, which has nothing to do with Android 12L. Other "quirks" with the camera app, updating its own apps, and improving the inking experience all need to be fixed, too. Lump in concerns over pricing and even just convincing people to want this device are other significant obstacles.

But Android 12L is a big deal, too. By the time it comes out, the Surface Duo experiment will be approaching its third year. That means the OS may finally catch up to where Microsoft is with the hardware, especially for overall OS design, features, and app compatibility. Android 12L also begins to mainstream these new folding phones and devices, giving Surface Duo a much-needed halo effect.

The $64,000 question is can Microsoft deliver Android 12L in a timely fashion? My gut feeling is the company may pass over Android 12.0 and push 12L instead (as it should), but it needs to do so quickly to avoid replicating the Android 11 fiasco with the original Surface Duo.

We'll see what happens in the coming months as all eyes are on Android 12L.

Daniel Rubino

Daniel Rubino is the Editor-in-chief of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft since 2007 when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, laptops, next-gen computing, and for some reason, watches. Before all this tech stuff, he worked on a Ph.D. in linguistics, watched people sleep (for medical purposes!), and ran the projectors at movie theaters because it was fun.

  • Lots of great info in this. Thanks, Daniel!
  • I have SD2 and use it daily (replaced my old phone). The biggest issue I have is the bugs related to duo screen, especially for landscape apps (can't rotate correctly, touch position offset, some part of the app still think it's portrait, the 3-button behaviors, etc.). Sometimes to make the app work properly, I had to close the app, fold the SD2 to single screen and restart the app again.
    I hope with Android 12L native support, those issues would get fixed and everything would work as expected.
  • Don't use that 3 button option. Stick to swiping and app developer's need to optimize there apps for the DUO.
  • Curious to know which apps so I can steer clear of them. Duo, and now Duo 2, has been my daily driver since launch day last September. While I experienced other documented bugs on Duo 1, Duo 2 has been clear so far 😊
  • Interesting stuff, fingers crossed 12L comes to Surface Duo too.
  • Good one, Dan. You're a service to the community, and beyond! I followed completely until you mentioned Jetpack WindowManager. If you please, what is it? Part of Android 12L? Or something else? Who builds and maintains it?
  • Thanks! So, quickly, Jetpack is a "suite of libraries to help developers follow best practices, reduce boilerplate code, and write code that works consistently across Android versions and devices." Within that is WindowManager, a system service for "managing the z-ordered list of windows," which basically means which app windows are visible, and how they are laid out across the displays. As you could probably infer, such a system service is crucial for how apps work across dual and folding screens.
  • Thanks Dan. I searched around the internet found definitive JetPack articles in both Google and Microsoft. Interesting stuff. I gather JetPack is a powerful and important feature for Android developers, created by Android/Google. But candidly, I'm over my head! So, does this make sense....
    Android 10 and 11 "held back" Duo
    Because Android 12L is "built for foldables,"
    it seems that other "add-ons" (my phase), say, like certain parts of JetPack
    (that were required to make Android 10 and 11 function on Duo 1 and 2,)
    are less important now, and superseded and redundant. Really?
    My hope is that Android (12L and successors) will get really good, smooth, fast, efficient for dual screen. It would seem that means fewer patches, add-ons, Jetpacks, branches, forks, firmware, API (really I don't know the terminology). Thus my confusion with JetPack changing or dimnished role with Android 12. But, whatever was in JetPack WindowManager, is some of it now in core Android 12L? Note: FWIIW, to me, it goes without saying that 12L won't be perfect. It will have bugs that no one anticipated and lack features that users wanted. Microsoft will need to write code so the Duo's can exploit Android 12L new capabilities. None of it will go perfectly! They will fix it and iterate. We will advance. And life will go one. Regardless, it's fun to watch (and experience).
  • "Thus my confusion with JetPack changing or dimnished role with Android 12."
    It's above my knowledge to weigh in on that. Perhaps I'll chat with some devs about it, but I think we're getting into the weeds here. The bigger story is, IMO: Android 12L is built for foldables as an OS, UI, and dev tools, which Google strongly encourages devs to support Google defines foldables as including dual-screen experiences (amongst others) Surface Duo will benefit from 12L as the hardware is now really good, but the OS is holding it back We'll see more foldables in 2022 as this category grows Can't say much beyond that at this point. Microsoft does have more to come with Surface Duo hardware, but we'll share more on that in early 2022 as we get more info/plans solidify.
  • That's fair. Thank you sir.
  • But the $128,000 question is whether Microsoft supports the original Surface Duo by pushing 12L to the device when it comes out.
  • I think they will, but right, until they talk about it we don't actually know.
  • Does anyone know how many Duo's sold? If they sold 1,000 then it makes no sense to spend a lot of resources to work the device to accept Android 12L. Intel and MSFT worked together to get Windows 11 to more efficiently run the new generation of Intel 12th Gen chips. I assume they will keep at it. I also think Google and MSFT entered into a partnership to improve Android to run dual screens (folding or hinged). What I don't know is if Android 12 (and 12L) have hardware requirements that preclude Duo or Duo 2 from working, similar to older Intel chipsets from working with Windows 11. Maybe the way the screens are managed in 12L does not impose unique hardware requirements other than what is inherent with dual/folding screen mobile devices.
  • More than 30,000, less than 50,000 (this was for Duo 1; no numbers on Duo 2).
  • Wow. So MS sold 40,000 Duo 1s? That is beyond pathetic. Keep in mind that at least half of those were bought at the fire sale prices of the last 6 months or so. With the horrible reviews the Duo 2 received, those numbers won’t change much. So after 2 years and 2 models, MS might (let’s be generous here) sell 100,000 Android phones. With a large percentage of those being sold at half of retail price. What exactly is their incentive to continue with this turkey? Even Windows phones sold better than this.
  • If they actually sold 100.000 than it would not be even that bad for expensive af phone. This and the Fold are creme de la creme while many Windows Phones were budget phones. From a quick search: Samsung sold at least 1 mln of their Samsung Fold 3 + Flip 3 (I think they sold more Flips than Folds since the Flip is much cheaper), but it would not surprise me if they sold 500.000 Fold 3's.
    But yeah MS messed it up with the software issues on the Duo 2 at launch. I do think MS has a chance with the Duo 3 if they can finally solve the software issues and optimize the camera software. MS is also missing a cheaper option which Samsung does have.
  • These are terrible numbers, i'd bet something about 100,000 and above. My fear about the end of the surface duo is growing.
  • I'm still waiting on Best Buy to restock the black, 256 GB SD2 to decide if I want to buy one, but this article really raises a LOT of red flags about the Duo 2. "If Microsoft were to invest resources into OS customization, it would be redundant and useless within a year. Why invent the wheel when someone else is already doing the work for you?: My answer to this would be, "to prove you're going to support the Duo." The first Duo is still on A10. Had Microsoft committed to building A12L features into the first Duo, assumedly through the MS Launcher, then I think the first AND second Duos would be better-received. Had they done this, say, around 6 months after the first Duo launched, then the second Duo (hopefully) wouldn't be behind single-screen phones in MS Launcher feature set. They wouldn't be reliant on the trickle-down of timelines for Google to release A12L and MS to then release it to consumers. They might end up deprecating code because A12L integrates features, but at least Duo users wouldn't be left to wait months (over a year for early Duo adopters) to have something reasonably stable and complete. Microsoft's barely done any real work on improving the first Duo, to the point that basically no one believes an A12L release will be timely. The most damning thing of it, though, is here: "Microsoft needs to address touch sensitivity issues sooner than later, which has nothing to do with Android 12L. Other 'quirks' with the camera app, updating its own apps, and improving the inking experience all need to be fixed, too." This is why I mean Microsoft should be doing SOMETHING to show they're going to try. The statement of "Microsoft is there, too, with the Surface Duo" really drives home a feeling that "there" is all the Duo is because it's all Microsoft is interested in doing. It's pretty sad that a significant "fix" to some of the video issues on Surface Duo is to install GCam to get away from Microsoft's software. Having a piece of hardware from Microsoft, yet need Microsoft to improve app experiences on it, is just sad. Having the final point then be "Microsoft could/should skip A12 for A12L," while they've done so little for software support in the last 13-ish months, just doesn't speak well for what consumers should expect with a Duo. I'm still looking at the Duo, but this article honestly does a lot to make it sound like it's a bad idea (I won't even get into the ridiculousness that is selling us a pen without a charger).
  • MSFT is about 24 months into the Duo software development. They spent the last 12 months reengineering the hardware. The OS is going to radically change in 6 months. Do you think MSFT is working with the Android 12L code to fully understand how the OS will work? Do you think engineers at Google are using the Duo 2 and Fold 3 in-house to optimize Android? It will take MSFT another 24 months of hard work to get the Duo Form Factor in a stable productive place where the vast majority of people can use the device without issues. While Duo 2 is close to a mature stable device, Duo 3 and Android 12L and app development will tell the tale. Will people willingly spend $1500 to ditch their iPhones to have a more productive form factor? I don't know. But I will watch from the sidelines. Besides MSFT is the most valuable public company in the world and for good reason. They understand the software and operating systems. They can be patient and let Google develop Android while they work the hardware and app side of the problem.
  • The best thing to do is use Duo 2 for what you do now. If what it does doesn't fit for you stear clear until it does. 12L will be lucky to make Duo 3 in all likelihood. Not complaining, but it will take some time
  • What? None of that makes sense. Do you think the Duo engineers are the app developers too? "Do you think MSFT is working with the Android 12L code to fully understand how the OS will work?" Probably to some degree, but ti hasn't gotten A11 to the first Duo, and A12 seems unlikely to ever reach the Duo 2. We've literally never seen MS deploy a major Android update on a device, so we have no idea when A12L would even make it. Heck, based on how the Duo/Duo 2 went, they could just not update the Duo 2 and release the third Duo on A13, for all we know (I don't think this will happen). "It will take MSFT another 24 months of hard work to get the Duo Form Factor in a stable productive place where the vast majority of people can use the device without issues." That's truly terrible, if it takes them 2 years to make a released device stable. "While Duo 2 is close to a mature stable device" Then how do they need 2 years to make it stable? "Besides MSFT is the most valuable public company in the world and for good reason. And it's nothing to do with their mobile hardware prowess or their capabilities in Android platform development. "They can be patient and let Google develop Android while they work the hardware and app side of the problem. This is how you become an afterthought in Android. Notice how much of what Samsung does these days is as basically the poster child of Android? Notice how WearOS, Google's watch platform, has paired with the Galaxy Watch (which has dumped its proprietary platform)? Samsung's One UI betas are right there with Pixels in pushing out new iterations for A12, and the Fold is the premier A12L product, while the Duo is more the collateral beneficiary. Microsoft's "patience" amounts to laziness.
  • I apologize for being a bit confusing and contradictory in my comment. The Duo 2 has most of the high demand requirements for mobile device users. By adding better cameras and NFC, this meets most of the needs for most users. So, the hardware is now stable. Can they improve the cameras, screens, battery life processors, etc.? Sure, but that only marginally improves utility. Can I design and build a car to drive 150 MPH? Sure. Will I ever drive it 150 MPH? No. Much easier to make a car drive 100 MPH and I on occasion will drive 100MPH. But most people (in the US) will never drive their car over 100 MPH. My point is the Duo 2 hardware as delivered provides the capability for most people to use the device and perform most if not all their mobile device tasks. The software is the issue. Without the software enabling the hardware to leverage the uniqueness of the form factor, it has lower utility than other more mature mobile devices. MSFT knows this and announced (If I remember correctly) a year ago that they were partnering with Google to invest in dual-screen devices. I don't know how the OS and software interact. But I assume the OS is critical in leveraging the uniqueness of the form factor. Through trial and error, the MSFT and Google engineers figure out what needs to be done. Hence Android 12L. This work is a partnership. I am sure Google engineers are using the Fold and Duo to test the OS. I am sure MSFT is using 12L, Duo 2 and apps (like word/outlook/OneNote) to integrate the experiences. IS the hardware of the Duo 2 feel like it covers most of the bases? Yes. So, the platform is now "stable". Is the OS (android 11/12) empowering the dual-screen form factor? No. Are apps utilizing the dual screens? Some but I assume the process is clumsy for the app developer. Therefore, there is a lot of software development on the OS and apps to harness the form factor and demonstrate its promised productivity. I think it will require another 24 months of work. At which point Google and MSFT will look at the market and see if their research was correct (people find the two separate screens inherently more productive than one folding screen) and see sales and usage rates rise to a meaningful business. This is what I meant by saying they need 2 years to make it stable. People should be able to pick it up and do more things better without much of a learning curve. It should just naturally do tasks you expect it to do. You may be right about MSFT laziness. The reason they are the most valuable company is because they are directing most of their resources to the Cloud. Surface is a sideshow for MSFT. Duo is a curiosity. But that does not mean MSFT will not drop $50 million a year on payroll and supplies to move the form factor forward. How much money have they spent on Hololens? MSFT spent tons of money putting employees at Fort Benning at the Advanced Infantry School working with soldiers and officers to improve the fit and finish of the HoloLens. They are spending a ton of hours building the software to empower the modern infantry warfighter. In the beginning, MSFT research said the HoloLens will be a transformative technology. What is the payoff? Possibly a $22 billion dollar contract. Do I think MSFT will sell 10's of millions of Duo 3's? I don't know, but MSFT and Google are willing to work together and spend millions to try. The simple fact MSFT released the Duo 2 and Google is releasing 12L tells you the form factor will see more years of development. Will the Fold (as Bleached believes) rule? Maybe. But MSFT will spend a few more years working on the problem and see if the market chooses the Duo
  • Very well said, sir.
  • The market has already spoken. Did you see just the pre-orders for the Fold? Dual screen is legacy technology, it will be folding screens in the future. Don’t be mislead, Android 12L is for folding screens. Duo will just be an afterthought. Dual screens at best will be a budget option, but Microsoft has to make them budget. It could have similar specs to the fold, be under $1,000, and they would still struggle to sell them. The form factor just hasn’t worked.
  • If it will take MS another 24 months to get the Duo Form Factor in a stable productive place as you are predicting, and personally I do not believe it, all the people involved should be fired, sic et simpliciter!
    I cannot fathom anyone buying a device, regardless of the price, and expecting that it will be functional in two years.
  • in 1980, my dad spent $2500 on an IBM XT personal computer. In 1988, I was so glad when I bought my 8087 coprocessor to install in my Leading Edge Computer using an 8086 processor. Without the 8087, I could not run my Fortran programming in graduate school. I apply the 85% rule to measure productivity. Can 85% of the people perform 85% of their required tasks? At this point, we do not know if either the Fold or Duo can match the iPhone or S21.
  • Think about what you like or wish for in a phone and decide accordingly. I love my SD2 and loved my SD1. They do what I've always wanted. I'll never go back to a normal single screen phone. For me, it's all about convenience. It's all about never having to flip back and forth between apps because you can always have 2 apps together. It's about being able to watch a Youtube video while web browsing. It's about having the app on one screen and the keyboard on the other screen. But it's still great in "tablet" mode. Google Maps is huge and gorgeous on the SD1/2. The phone is fast. The cameras are great usually (though sometimes, the results are awful for unknown reasons). Listing bugs (like the touch bug) should not be an indictment. It's being real. All phones have bugs. The SD2 bugs are not dealbreakers. The worst bug on the SD2 is sometimes the screen stops responding to touch. The solution to it is to lock the phone and then unlock it and then it works again. It's annoying but it doesn't always happens. However it happens enough that it needs to be squashed.
  • That's nice I'm praying go get a flip flowing anyway. Android is unusual now
  • The Fold is better than Duo in every way possible. Fold works better than Duo. There isn't a market for Duo because people want an foldable screen like the Fold. Duo is a flawed concept compared to the Fold . Duo will be canceled early next year because the Fold is better. The Fold screen folds while the Duo is just 2 screens that close so fold is more foldier. Fold is Fold and Duo is nothing but another failed device by Microsoft because Duo doesn't have a folding screen. Who does this sound like?
  • I bought a brand new Duo 1 for $400 a week ago to use like a mini computer for work. My device works wonderfully and meets my expectations. I don't use it as a phone.
  • Thought it was 'Bleached' ;)
  • I love how you make nothing but declarative statements yet you do not use a single fact. Impressive.
  • It's satire ;) He's riffing on another poster ("Bleached") who regularly chimes in on these articles to declare, literally, the uselessness of Surface Duo, how it's going to fail, they won't make another, etc.
  • pls ban him. ill click more Ads on your website for that ad money if you do. he adds nothing into this site other than being negative nancy
  • Ahh, funny you would say that. And, I agree, it is a bunch of unsubstantiated nonsense. Thank you 👍🏾
  • Neither Duo will get Android 12L. The form factor will be canceled before it is launched. The reviews of the Duo have been quite bad, with one reviewer saying she wanted to throw it in the ocean! It will be canceled early next year. It has all the marks of a Microsoft project that will shortly be canceled.
  • Again, you are wrong about this and we'll have more on the roadmap for Surface Duo early next year. It's definitely not canceled.
  • Not yet, but it is only a matter of time. After the terrible reviews and poor sales, it will get axed. “After spending less than a week with the Microsoft Surface Duo 2, channeling phone-testing energy and something that resembled hope into this glitchy two-screened albatross, I started to think it might feel good to throw the Duo 2 into the ocean, except that would be bad for the ocean. I began to carry other phones with me—not for camera testing, but because I just wanted a real phone“ https://www.wired.com/review/microsoft-surface-duo-2/ It is awkward to use and the few times you actually need side by side apps aren’t close to worth it.
  • "Not yet, but it is only a matter of time. "
    We know of the plans for Surface Duo 3 already and it's rough ETA. Again, you're wrong.
  • Overlooking the blatant trolls, don't you see that something is a miss when your peer techies from other sites are tagging the Duo 2 with much lower scores? Doesn't that automatically mean there's some biased emitting from your review that you overlooked? I'm a fan through and through of Microsoft products including phones, but I'm disappointed by the Duo. Now I'm struggling as to what migrate to. I don't really want to upgrade to Android 11 on my original Duo in fears of a shittier version that I can't roll back from. And going to Duo 2 is out. After reading the other reviews including now the one from Jez...the only thing Bleached has against him is a stained reputation because finally he predicted something right. From my perspective who has no notion of his history, you guys are the ones in denial. Like what am I missing?
  • "Doesn't that automatically mean there's some biased emitting from your review that you overlooked?"
    Read my review and conclusions. I say it's not mainstream ready and most people should wait for Surface Duo 3. I heavily criticized bugs, glitches, and Microsoft's lack of progress with software and updates. Find quotes in my review that you disagree with and post them. Focusing on the score (which is arbitrary BS we use for Google SEO) versus what I wrote does a disservice. So, again, quote parts in my review that you think are wrong.
  • Like someone obsessed with others with diverging opinions...
  • bleached for sure
  • The more MS allows Android to run on their products, the more Google will find the need to innovate to run on these different kinds of hardware. In the long run there will be less need to use Windows. We already know that Windows 11 can run just about any Android app. I have plenty running on my SP7. Microsoft needs to invest in their own software instead of propagating a competitors. IMO.
  • Except that Android apps do not necessarily have to depend on Google. The Android apps Windows 11 has in the store are not Google Android apps (as in they do not depend on Google Playstore API's), but instead they use other API's. MS has already announced that their .NET framework will support Android and iOS too in future. There is also API's like Amazon AWS / Amplify Android.
    F-droid Android apps (which can already be installed through apk on Windows 11 I believe) also do not use Google API's iirc.
  • Great article, I am just wondering when will it come out for duo 2 and would it be even possible for duo 1
  • No idea on the when, that's the big question. re: Duo 1, I don't see why they wouldn't. They promised 3 years of updates, which includes OS, and 12L seems to go a long way to making that device even better. But, we'll have to wait for guidance from MS on the matter.
  • People still really arguing if the duo is a foldable device?! Word to Bleached's Fold, that is hilariously stupid to argue otherwise.
  • Samsung’s, not mine. You know if it said Microsoft on it you would all be calling the second coming. Not sure how anyone can argue that dual screens are better than a big folding screen. It isn’t even a question at this size and sales of the Fold vs Duo more than prove it.
  • The big question here is whether the two duos now out will ever see it. Another reason that I am so hesitant to buy this thing. I know if I get the fold I'll get Android12 soon after. Duo.... Who knows????
  • Personally I would wait either for the Duo 3 or Fold 4. Chances are that if MS releases the Duo 3 it will have fixed/improved the camera software side and bugs (/Android12l) which would make it the better device imo. And if not, the Fold 4 will undoubtedly be an upgrade (/not yet mature form factor) and not just a speed bump like many candybar phones these days.
  • I'm highly optimistic that SD3 will solve the issues and be the one to buy. Hopefully the price will come down as well. Saving my pennies now to be able to get that next year.
  • So, is the Duo 1 getting Android 11, or will they hold off and just push the device straight onto 12L? That would be a massive bump up for Duo 1 users. Would the hardware support 12L?