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Microsoft is working on a foldable mobile device with a focus on pen and digital ink

Although Microsoft's mobile efforts in regards to Windows 10 Mobile are dead, the company isn't pulling out of mobile altogether. While Windows on smartphones is no more, Microsoft is hoping to create a new category-defining mobile device that's aimed at an entirely new demographic that puts pen and digital inking at the forefront of its experience.

Microsoft 'Andromeda:' Everything we know about the rumored foldable device

At Windows Central, we've been covering two ongoing internal projects within Microsoft: CShell and Windows Core OS. Both of these projects play an important part in Microsoft's next rumored mobile device, which appears to be commonly referred to as "Andromeda" internally.

So, what exactly is this Andromeda device and why should you care?

Digging into Microsoft's 'Andromeda' folding device

According to our sources, the Andromeda device is prototype hardware; a foldable dual-screened tablet that runs Windows 10 built with Windows Core OS, along with CShell to take advantage of its foldable form factor. CShell plays an important role in the foldable aspect of this device, and it being foldable is significant as it allows the handset to switch between a tablet form-factor and phone form-factor.

I make the comparison to a phone because I'm also hearing that it also has telephony capabilities, meaning you could replace your actual smartphone with it and still be able to take calls and texts. My sources make it clear, however, that this is not supposed to be a smartphone replacement but rather a device similar to the canceled "Microsoft Courier." In short, Andromeda is a digital pocket notebook.

It's all about digital inking

I'm told the device puts pen and inking at the very forefront of its experience, with some prototypes opening up into a notebook app that's tied to OneNote with support for your usual inking options via Windows Ink. The notebook app itself is designed in a way that mimics writing in a real notebook, with virtual pages that spread across the foldable device. Of course, since it's Windows it also has a Start menu, as well as the ability to run apps like Edge or Photos.

It is likely that Andromeda will run on an ARM chip, meaning it'll ship with the latest Snapdragon processor that's current at the time of its release. Regarding app support, I'm unable to verify if the device will be able to run Win32 programs, so that will have to remain a mystery for now. It will be able to run true-UWP apps, of course.

Microsoft isn't building this device for your average consumer. If it ever does comes to market, and that's a big if, it isn't going to be an iPhone or Android competitor because as Microsoft has publicly claimed in the past, it's just too late for that.

Instead, Microsoft is going to try and carve out a new market for people who need or want a device like this. It isn't hard to imagine this device being marketed as a digital journal for those in the enterprise, schools, students, and prosumers.

A lot of this info shouldn't come as a surprise. Those that have been following us closely likely already know that Microsoft has been filing patents for foldable devices for the last year or so. That, along with CShell and Windows Core OS, and the fact that Microsoft has publicly stated that if it is to ever return to mobile, it'll be with a new kind of device, it's not hard to envision Microsoft doing something like this.

Microsoft Patent

Microsoft Patent (Image credit: Microsoft)

I believe Microsoft's hardware partners could also build their own, similar foldable devices. Microsoft appears to be toying with its own, possibly under the Surface moniker to show hardware makers what this new device category should be like, just as it has with other Surface products in the past. This is treading into speculative territory, but maybe it'll be called "Surface Note," or "Surface Journal?"

Unanswered questions

There's plenty about this device that we still don't know. For example, we also don't know about any of its specs, actual size, price, appearance or name.

Sources tell me that if this device ever does see the light of day, it'll happen in 2018 at the earliest. It seems Microsoft is pegging "sometime in 2018" for its release, which is super interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if this gets pushed back at some point, as is entirely possible. Of course, considering this isn't a product that's been officially announced, Microsoft can change or cancel its plans at any time as it has in the past.

Assuming Microsoft doesn't cancel these plans, its future mobile efforts sound incredibly exciting. Could we finally be getting the Microsoft Courier that we've always wanted? Only time will tell. In the meantime, does the sound of a foldable, digital notebook with telephony capabilities running Windows 10 entice you? Let us know. Microsoft may very well be reading your comments ...

Zac Bowden
Zac Bowden

Zac Bowden is a Senior Editor at Windows Central. Bringing you exclusive coverage into the world of Windows 10 on PCs, tablets, phones, and more. Also an avid collector of rare Microsoft prototype devices! Keep in touch on Twitter: @zacbowden.

408 Comments
  • For what?
  • lolz mainly
  • I would love to see this device come to market.  Businesses would easily see a need for this device during meetings, conferences,etc.  As a consumption device I would prefer it over a standard laptop.
  • Businesses won't see any need in another failed project.
  • That is indeed true. Of course it is up to business to make it fail.
  • shame it didn't come out 4 years ago running 8.1, would have been the bomb. 8.1 the best touch UI ever!
  • Folks The leaked Microsoft patents on dual screen Mini Tablets indicate a path in mobile tech that Microsoft may follow.  I would like this device over a smart phone anyday because workilng with small smart phone screens is not good to me plus this device probably will have a form of Windows 10 on ARM"s CPU's and will run Win32 run Desktop PC programs as well as "Microsoft Store" Regular and UWP Apps which are growing in number due to the popularity of the Surface Laptop, Surface ProTablets, and Surface Books all of which have an Apps store and enough people are buying these device to make it relivent for Developers and Businesses to put their Apps in these devices Apps store. An Internet report says "LG" is going to soon Market a foldable Dual screen smart phone so Microsof is not  the only one who will build 2 screen foldable smart phones or Tablet/Cell phone hybrid device. a Hybrid PC Mini Tablet with a built in Cell phone will work out for Microsoft if it runs Windows 10 on ARM because their device could run PC win32 programs and Windows 10 Microsoft store UWP and regular Apps which are growing in Number.  Right now the Windows 10 store has all the Apps I use and more are COMING !
  • It all depends on how Microsoft markets these type of devices. Microsoft didn't compete directly with tablets at the time. However as time when on Microsoft managed to compete very well and actually managed to get all Android OEMs onto Windows. Now they have 20% of the tablet market. The same will happen here. In fact I see PC OEMs and many other OEMs offer a Windows 10 version of their foldable devices.
  • For people who ink? Kind of obvious
  • Who are those people? I've never in my life seen someone digital inking. I can't see the appeal of this.
  • Dusteater, I totally agree.  It gets back to my question that never seems to get answered - what is the business case for this?  There are plenty of use cases but what is the business case? Some people do like to take notes but what we have now for digital inking doesn't seem to be gaining traction.  I'm writing this on a Surface Pro 4 and I'm typing.  I rarely ink because it is not the easiest to do.  But besides the use case of being able to ink, do people even want to do that?  Will the Enterprise (because the Massively Screwed-up dys-Functional Team better not think about the consumer space) go for this.  People type faster than they write and with greater accuracy.  I just don't see a digital inking device having demand that big.
  • In my office, many people still use physical notebooks for writing meeting notes and actions. They then need to copy this out into their PC for emailing etc.. Some even print their calendar at the start of the day. Using OneNote in meetings, it can convert your writing to text once your done. Digital inking this way can save you loads of time.  I previously used a Surface Pro 1 then 3. My workload changed and I needed to give it up for a more powerful laptop. Digital inking is the biggest thing i miss. I avoid taking this laptop to meetings now, as its such a pain. I have looked for small 8 inch tablets for inking, but there are no decent options around. I have the samsung Note series for a long time now. This works in a pinch, but often feel too cramped. A decive like this could be small enough to carry aka phone, but fold open big enough, aka SP3, to feel good writing on. If this comes to market, i would consider one. Stash it in my draw and take it out for meetings. Unlikely to replace my phone, but a 4G connection would be welcome.
  • Yepers.
  • There are no decent 8" tablets, especially with Windows, because that form kinda sucks. It doesn't do anything a large phone can't and isn't productive enough for Windows programs at that size.
  • The lack of a business case is why Microsoft is doing this!!! Microsoft is well positioned in making hero devices in new niche markets and being able to stay afloat even if they fail. They also have acquired some pretty solid hardware talent over the years - so it makes the most sense that they try. If it takes off: everyone follows. Your surface may not have fulfilled the business case of digital inking, but it certainly has pushed all the OEMS to provide touch screens on all their laptops. And I bet that you wouldn't dare downgrade to non-touch laptop here on. If it doesn't: like winphone, zune, windows rt, ect... Microsoft can write it all off as Research and Development for the sake of windows. The possible business case may be that there may be a huge untapped market around digital inking that has yet to be explored, there is certainly no device that properly explores it - The Galaxy Note for example is the closest product to date that provides a great experience and form factor for it... but... it still reliant on a touch first platform.  
  • There probably is a business case.  My sister needs a big screen and inking capability, and would love a mobile computer.  I believe she would buy one day one having never owned a Windows phone before.  It looks exactly what a lot of people need - incuding reporters, journalists, and just business people who go to meetings.
  • If I could have a work phone with this capability I'd give up my current BYOD situation in a heartbeat. Being able to take notes easily on a pocketable device without feeling constricted by your average phone screen would be fantastic. I recently had a meeting where I took extensive notes on my Note 8, and while it worked surprisingly well my hand was definitely fatigued at the end because of the narrow writing surface. The benefits of this aren't immediately apparent nor are they universal to everyone, but for the note takers out there it'd be a game changer. Then of course there's the artists who are constantly sketching [I live near an art college so I see this everywhere]. Instead of carrying around a paper notebook they could use a device like this with very little change to their workflow.
  • Well, for one. My experience from using inking quite a bit at work, and school... On smaller screens, or midsized screens, it literally is faster to scribble than type. I use the pen on my Surface 3 so damn much if you only new...
    The small keyboard on smartphones is very easy to type on.
    And, large physical keyboards on desktops are terrific... But, when you get in that "middle" area pen on substrate is best, and onscreen keyboards, while still necessary, blow monkey balls.
    .......
    When someone speaks of doing things a different way, and creating new ways of doing things, to say "nobody does things that way now, and this is the way we currently do things", is not only EXTREMELY closed minded, it's a pretty ridiculous argument.... Never allow yourself to be short sighted like that.
  • Where is the new way of doing things? 8" tablets with pen support are available, they just aren't popular because they are kinda useless, especially with Windows at that size.
  • 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
  • I'd love to see something like this in my hand when going for a training and not having to pack up my notebook every single time breaking it in turnstiles while pouring coffee on myself upon stumbling in all the cables hanging around me. If it costs no more than a business provided iPhone, business would love to see me carry this around rather than the high cost of insurance they pay after me.
  • Yepers, son... Exactly.
  • 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
    Get with the times iDroid troll.
    Look, just stick with smartphones. They're more your speed.
  • Two DV's from you know who. 😆😆😆😆
  • Try it and you will understand. I was thinking it's silly, but I fell in love with SB. I can't get a laptop without pen and digital ink. This was the point when I decided to get Samsung note 8 as I see a ton of usability on a mobile device.
  • It's a huge time saver and while you won't see it much in organizations with strictly desktops, once someone is shown how they can sign & send documents or e-mail from their tablet or even a touch laptop, it opens a whole new world. 
  • Odd. I saw plenty of geeks showing off their android phones with pen.  It was cool. Until it wasn't.  This niche market might be something they get traction in... i.e. its primarily a compact (foldable) tablet.  People love to stare at devices. Larger screens aren't as taboo as they were in the past. And cell/telephonic capabilities are just an added function. Just like Apple Watch LTE can make and receive calls, it isn't its primary purpose. Something like that might make sense to some part a market. If this is their vision, I suppose it makes sense that they kill off mobile as they would have two products and difficulty differentiating the two to customers.  It might also be why they haven't released a smaller form factor Surface, despite clamoring by the Windows community (i.e. Windows Centeral, teehee) at large to do so. Curious to see how that plays out.  
  • Samsung makes a foldable Note 9 and no one cares about this...
  • Because it's a toy.. Damn, dude. Nobody is talking about your smartphone toys around here. Go to IDroid central if you wanna play games.
    ......
    This is a PC. PC'S aren't anything new, they just get better. Odd you'd question that now... Or is it? The only reason you trolls would question this particular PC is because this is the one that creates fear in your little smartphone minds... SMDH. Please.
  • Note 8 isn't a toy mate. It can deliver productivity lumia 950xl could have only dreamed of... VPN on this device is usable thanks to pen and relatively "big" screen and it has enough power to run many other apps. In comparation I could not run vpn through citrix on lumia 950xl as it always got stuck on rdp loading screen. Android worked. This is no bashing, simply stating the fact that note 8 is the best mobile device currently on the market...
  • The Note 8 is AMAZING, and It, or the Note 9, will be my next smartphone. So, don't get me wrong.
    ......
    But, that's what it is; a smartphone. When someone compares the capability of an alleged Surface Ultramoble to iDroid, that's where I resort to referring to iDroid as toys in comparison... So, I'll say the same thing for my 950. Yes, it's a toy compared to a Windows PC, but my 950 isn't a toy compared to even a Note 8. Those devices are relatively the same in what they are capable of doing... One just has WAAAAY better support. That's it. A PC has configuration, security, and even further support options you just can't get with a smartphone. Smartphones are toys in comparison.
  • Careful, you'll drive the trollers away...
  • 😲😲😲😲 Not likely.. They are way too thirsty.
  • Why is MS working on a PC? Have you been in a coma for the past 30 years?...
    Pathetic trolls feel fear Windows fans are gonna get a device more powerful than their pathetic smartphones.
    SMDH
  • My thoughts exactly. Samsung looks like they're going to beat them to this concept, and at this point it doesn't sound comeplling enough to make me switch back to MS Hardware. I get the whole "We don't want to do mobile until we can something truly different." MO they have going, but this ain't that. MS, you blew your shot. Go work on your Android apps.
  • Imho MS and Samsung should partner on mobile device and figure out dual boot. W10 on arm and Android... Samsung clearly shares some thoughts with MS. Continuum, pen...
  • I'd buy that.....
  • Wb windows central
  • I have a feeling it's not gonna work out for them. People have their phones and tablets and laptops and desktop pc. We don't nerd another device to add onto that. I'm pretty sure tablets and laptops can do everything this foldable phone can
  • That's exactly the point the premise of the device is "the device to replace your phone and tablet" just like the surface was to replace your laptop. This device should be able to do everything a tablet or phone could and by extension a laptop. So instead of having 3 devices you could essentially have one. It's a replacement of not an add to.
  • But it can't. That's the problem. It can't replace a good smartphone with all the apps and it can't replace a high powered laptop or ultrabook/Surface Pro device.
  • Especially at a size that can fit in your pocket. It would take at least 3 folds, each on a different axis, for a Surface Pro to fit in your pocket. Then what do you do with the keyboard?
  • How hard could it be for 3rd party OEM to come out with a 5" or 6" device, with ARM?
    It's foreseeable.
  • It will be really hard for an OEM to justify making a Windows phone. They have all flopped. Don't be confused. A 5-6" device running Windows is a Windows phone.
  • yes but this time it's full Windows that can run win32 applications and can replace a PC for those who don't buy a PC at all or make a light use of it.
  • Who wants to run legacy programs on a 5-8" device? That is a terrible experience that will not done any success.
  • At minmum it will get you by till you access your PC....
  • Or simply plop it down on a desk in front of your wirless mouse/keyboard and plug in to the monitor or dock. 
  • Just push my actual gaming PC to the side?
  • Here's an example: All PC games you find on Steam are "Legacy programs". So who would want to play PC games on the go? Every teenage boy old enough to own a smartphone. But not powerful enough you say? Funny, Intel Atom processors run these games right now. See a device called "GPD Win" for examples. They are all over YouTube. Yep, games are the Ultimate Program that would make this device shine. If the performance isn't good enough now, how about in 4 to 5 years? Games jumpstarts the Marketshare and marketshare jumpstarts the developers. Of coarse this machine will be no different than the other 1.5 billion devices running Windows 10 in the year 2020; you know, the year Windows 7 dies forever and everybody on the planet running Windows will be running Windows 10. I know this all sounds like a Fanboy dream. But really, where am I wrong with any of this?
  • Those steam games aren't designed for touch. How are you going to play them on the go? Have they sold many of those GPD devices? Why don't you see more devices this size if people want them?
  • Touch controls on second screen. (Or physical controls, you know, Xbox Phone) Nobody knows about these devices. Did you?
  • PS: I want to make it clear that what you said is 100% spot on. Without the proper control schemes Windows on ARM on a phone sized device would be an epic failure. I would think that Microsoft would have someone try to use this device during the development process as their only device for an entire week and see where the problems are. The very first problem they encounter will be control schemes. If the proper control schemes are there , most of their problems are solved.
  • That's just part of the development process. I'm sure several prototypes will be tested for real world usage. Look at what the Surface team has done so far. Should we even doubt them at this point?
    .....
    Another great point is that MS isn't starting from scratch on this device. All those years of experience developing Surface products apply here, and to any other new products in the future. The quality will be ULTRA high. I can promise you that. I think the biggest challenge will be getting the UI right for a device this size, and one that obviously has a modular experience. They must get the Cshell elements for this device right, or it will not flow.. Still, they have version 1, 2, 3, to perfect. Usually by version 3 products are pretty good.... What we really should be excited about is that version 2, or 3, Surface Ultramoble device. That's where it's gonna be at.
  • I agree. I have full confidence in the Surface Team.
  • Probably by the time the device is released, Microsoft will also be on the side not wanting you to run Steam games while it has the Windows Store and XBox platform.
  • Exactly. Anything the Atom can do, this can do much, much better and with cellular capabilities to boot.
  • I believe you are wrong when you think of it as a possible gaming possibility. This sounds like a productivity by inking device 😌
  • In continuum (e.g. Cshell) docked, it will pretty capable for light gaming. I use an S3 for everything from Civ V to Starbound and it works fine.
  • Plus Bluetooth game controllers / mice and keyboards. The real question is how well the emulation works. The chips themselves are more than powerful enough though with some tweaking of the games settings; especially in Xbox 360 equivalent PC games.
  • I would never buy any pocket device to run Win32 apps. They simply don't work on a small screen. Also I don't think this device will come with anything else but Windows 10S on it not qualifying for an upgrade.
  • No.
  • > It will be really hard for an OEM to justify making a Windows phone.
    > They have all flopped. Don't be confused. A 5-6" device running
    > Windows is a Windows phone.
    Are you from a different world or something?
    These are not WinPhone, these are win10(pc) in a portable form.
    One does XPA, one doesn't.
    One will have Edge / Chrome with extension support and OneDrive on Demand, the other one... likely won't.
    Isn't this the reason why MS had to drop WinPhone for win10arm?
    Or you just simply not able to wrap your head around?
  • it's a 6-7" device! Without touch apps!! on the go it will be useless! but you look very much like a desperate fanboy, so no point explaining. Good luck running Win32 Chrome on it.
  • Where do you get this from?
  • Touch apps? what apps people are using on their Surfaces?
    Messenger? Instagram? Line? Spotify? Xbox? up coming iTunes? Why you want to run win32 apps in a small screen? Sure you don't. Games are different. Games don't use "Form".
  • People are using the same apps on their Surfaces that they use on a laptop. It has a keyboard and a touchpad for a reason. Windows games don't have "form" I guess, but they do require a keyboard and mouse or at least a controller. They certainly don't work with touch.
  • That was exactly what they said about W10M. It is still a phone. A 6" LTE slab with telephony is a phone. Just because it unfolds to 8" and can dock to a monitor doesn't mean it isn't a phone. Semantics aren't going to win this for Microsoft.
  • I guess you are forgetting about HP.
  • The new Surface Pro is 12.3''. Given we already have smartphones half the size, i don't think that it would have to unfold three times.
  • Fold a surface pro in half twice. It will still not even come close to fitting in your pocket. Folding doesn't effect the height. I have a Surface Pro next to me. I see no way to fold it small enough for a pocket. Look at the new folding ZTE phone. Two 5.2" screens only open to a 6.8" screen. Even a 6" phone isn't going to unfold into a very big display. It is also going to be a weird aspect ratio. I don't think it is going to be with it for Windows. Maybe Android.
  • Don't you have some trolling on lagdroid central, or at least a pixel 2 circle jerk to join?
  • hahah lagdroid 😂😂😂 I heard windows 10 M lags like android 2.3
  • Apparently you heard wrong you should always discover things for yourself instead of only relying on the advice of others
  • Looks like you are the one who needs to discover things for yourself instead of only hearing people calling..... visit the forums it's cries all over win 10 mobile devices can not even take pictures correctly! Windows on a phone a total failure #BELIEVETHAT Anyways what was the last time you tried a different OS like ios or android? #WSheep?
  • Considering I have both a 950 which doesn't lag and takes pictures just fine and a Samsung Galaxy 8 through work that pretty much defines discovering things for myself, so you prove my point I use both operating systems and I'm making a statement of fact based on my personal experience. See the difference there? #get a clue #learn to speak for yourself not others
  • You really are a fanboy!  Have you got rid of the always "resuming" issue 😂😂😂😭😭😭😩😩😩 Why I (finally) left Windows 10 Mobile | Windows Central WP Answers • Discussion: Lag, slow and unstable Windows Mobile 10 There with some links to help you! But I know for those pure sheeps everything is always working smooth
  • Sorry to burst your bubble I'm not a fanboy of anything technology or brands don't take that level of importance in my life. Windows mobile 10 runs just fine on my 950 no always resuming issue? or lag. If you have moved on to bigger and better things why do you spend so much time worrying about what others are using? Why are you even hanging out in a Windows mobile site....I sure wouldn't waste my time reading articles and commenting about something I didn't like or use
  • I have all OSs machines so I am in all OS sites, I just don't get it when I see someone as blind as you sir! You can never have a greate OS unless you critisize obvious erros and mistakes! Being blind means DOA next stop ios
  • Blind? How ironic when you know absolutely nothing about me and my personal experiences on how I use and what I have experienced, liked or disliked on the many devices and OS's I own and use.
  • Based on your baseless judgements. Anyways let's all enjoy our devices while we still can ! Kudos
  • Baseless judgements huh? I'm the one commenting about my actual real life experiences your the one making assumptions Kudos
  • Troll
  • Further, great job pulling up articles about Win 10 lag issues. Would you like me to post the thousands in reference to android and iOS? Or are you oblivious to them?
  • We all know like for example android up to 4 was lagging but that's not a case anymore, so when grown ups are discussing and you bring childing staffs like lagdroid while cleary your os of preference is the one lagging then we got to open up your eyes a lil bit
  • Yeah. The resuming issue is gone... Old news.
  • I love the lag comments and then I point to how the S8 and Mate10 both have a noticeable lag when launching their Continuum clones, my 950 (running an SD808) has no lag jumping into continuum and doesn't need a base or cooler to do it.
  • Well, they'd better patch this fall creators update, because it has made my Phone, Surface, and Laptop, kinda unstable. Something is not quite right with that update.
  • I'm on Fast Ring, not seeing issues there, 950, S3, and a desktop.
  • Does the 950 lag when running multiple windows side by side?
  • 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄
  • Honestly, while I would have liked that update to have actually come out, it hasn't been an issue in my use (keyboard shortcuts make it a nonissue). My comment was more directed to the fact that the older device can execute the same basic environment better than the newer ones. Plus, there is a hell of a lot more UWP support than Dex support.
  • Windows 10 Mobile is a failure. No doubt. But I can assure you it has nothing to do with any kind of lag or software issues. I have had devices from each of the 3: win 10 m, current android, and iOS. Still have both a win 10 m and android device. Furthermore, I work in the mobile market and am constantly selling and/or fixing smartphones. Win 10 M has a very smooth and responsive OS with lag being a complete non-issue. Maybe that is in part because of its lack of apps that can bog down the performance of a phone. But generally speaking, performance is a place where Win 10 M shines, not falters. Its faults are in other areas.
    Your statements are completely invalid.
  • Why are you here?...
    Bet you never answer back... Pathetic.
  • That was when we dumped ours, took a bunch of pictures last Christmas with my wife's 950, only 2 out of maybe 50 saved, the rest disappeared into the ether. She was devastated. Googled it & apparently a known issue. That was enough for us, haven't looked back.
  • I tried both iOS, restarting upon entering General settings of the Settings menu. I also tried Android spaming me heavily with all kinds of ads making the device useless. I still use my Lumia 950 daily. Yes, photo taking sometimes uses hardware heavily. But I will miss the photo quality it produces once I am forced to switch device. Even compared to an iPhone or Android for the same price.
  • Could be, not sure. Doesn't lag here. And it's not lagging with an over two-year-old hardware that was still lower spec than an Android device.
  • Android is mature and boring at this point. The devices are fantastic but interesting news is rare these days. Microsoft doesn't have that issue at least! Do you have a constructive comment? I use a Surface Pro and even it seems a bit small for when I have to be mobile, which is fairly rare. It spends most of it's time in the vertical dock powering multiple monitors. I really believe that Windows is best experienced on the largest display possible. The experience seriously degrades as the display size shrinks.
  • Even monitors come already with all kinds of weird aspect ratios. Nobody seems to care. Probably a folding pocket device is not going to be used mainly for movie consumption. Also who cares about 16:9 on the go? Probably very useful when managing to cover your whole viewport walking.
  • It's not quite that simple.  A 12.3" screen has an area of 64.2 inches^2.  A 6" screen has an area of 15.08 inches^2.  While 6 is half of 12 as you mentioned, a display having the 12" diagonal is four times as large as a display having the 6" diagonal.  A single fold to fold it in half won't magically make it as small as a 6" device.
  • This is actually true... But, MS's engineers have done a great job with Surface. Why argue about what we don't know. Just let them do their job, and wait, and see what they come up with.
    ......
    Please tell me you're not a pathetic troll.
  • Don't let how geometry actually works get in the way of how amazing this device won't be.
  • Think about it as the beginning of defining a category. As I posted in the past, initial iterations of this category won't be as powerful as subsequent iterations as technology inevitably improves and components become smaller.
  • @Jason Ok.  Microsoft will define a category.  Great!  They'll sit on their hands for two years, no marketing, miniscule updates, while other's copy their design and make it better; then Microsoft will throw their hands up and cry no one is buying our device then give up.  Leaving those who follow them at the starting line once again.  Face it.  Microsoft's attention span is limited.  And that's me speaking, it's their reputation for the past 10 years.
  • The fundamental issue isn't about hardware, despite how compelling the hardware may be. It's about attracting and retaining developers to make applications people (or businesses) want to use. I hope developers flock to the platform when there is new compelling hardware or form factors but I expect that they will not. Lumias, in their time, were compelling hardware. There was a surge of good WP8.1 apps but after Nokia became part of Microsoft, it fell apart (for various reasons). When I bought my SP3, there were a few good UWPs/UWAs. Despite the Surface line having a great deal of compelling hardware (iterations, new form factors, etc.) we're still not seeing the surge of UWPs or the deprecation of Win32. Perhaps Microsoft is waiting on the whole Apps to Progressive Web App to start so native apps are less important, but that's a gamble.
  • Lumia hardware was terrible. Put a 920 next to an iPhone, Galaxy or HTC at the time and it felt like a heavy ancient brick. It was a tough sell when comparing them on the shelf. The fragility of the device isn't going to be the first thing on a customer's mind, especially when holding the beautiful glass and metal design of the iPhone. It is just going to feel better than a thick plastic brick. The Samsung were plastic then but they were at least thin, light and sleek and had the latest hardware and features. Lumia design definitely was one of many issues with Windows phones.
  • I suppose the aesthetic value of each device is subjective, but I personally really loved my Lumia 800 and I really loved the 1020. I even loved my 950XL, although it was a LOT better after getting a walnut Mozo back. Nonetheless, despite what I considered compelling hardware, it never generated much developer interest. I don't see a new device breaking that pattern.
  • The iPhone materials and design is so much nicer than any of those devices it really isn't subjective. I don't think you would find any normal person that would say the design of those devices was nicer than an iPhone 5. They certainly didn't choose the Lumia when put on the shelf next to an iPhone.
  • I disagree bleached.  My 1020 was the nicest peice of mobile hardware I owned.  I loved it much better than my current iphone.  It was just better.   The only issue was the OS.   if it were running android from the beginning,  or even unlocked to port android in,  I would still be using it as my main device!
  • @Steve Man, I was agreeing with you up until "... issue was the OS.".  That's the best thing about Windows Mobile.  Android?  Pyuck!  :)  Never! 
  • I am going by my useage.   Nothing else.  I wanted windows 10 mobile on my 1020.  They never gave it.  SOOOOO instead of letting the device die,  unlock them for us to install android on,  At least I could use it.   Plus I use ALOT of apps that are not on wp.   So,  at least if I could port android onto it, I could run MS launcher, and have a completely useable phone.
  • What's a normal person again? Please do remind us all, Bleached? I love a robust well made device with a solid build that doesn't bend in the pocket or needs a massive rubber case. This is not an unusual perspective.
  • Just any random person walking into a phone shop. You really think that person is going to think that a heavy, thick, plastic lumia is as premium as the thin metal and glass iPhone of the time? No way. The Lumia might be more durable but that isn't going to be as apparent and probably not as compelling as the jewel like nature of the iPhone.
  • See,  the "plastic" 1020 did not feel like plastic.  It felt....Premium.  Ilke some other material.  the screen had a slight curvature to it that followed the natural movement of your thumb,  the whole device fit in your hand properly,  unlike my iphone or galaxy devices now.  On the flip side,  the iphone 5s which was the top iphone at the time,  felt awkward, fragile, and slippery.  Lets not get into the camera of the 1020...whole other argument for the BEST EVER!  and it was.  and still is for taking photographs.  The 1020 is the device I judge all other phones on even to this day,  and every one comes up short.  From a design execution perspective.   The guts of the phone,  and software is a different story.   I would love to have a super powerful 1020 right now....perfect size,  perfect camera,  perfect looking mobile device.   
  • It did feel very premium. You see, Bleached, in many places the fashion is not so wedded to delicate little devices as your experience suggests. Here in the UK the popularity of sturdy devices is often voiced in my experience, and the popularity of Lumia devices demonstrated this. Even now, the number of ultra thins left in that delicate state is small. When people have no choice but to buy delicate here, they almost to a man take their device and fit a large and robust case to it in an attempt to make it as sturdy as a Lumia. I almost never see anyone walking around with a thin thing that just won't stand up to any sort of treatment out in the open without masses of robust protection. Hence the regular impressed comments and Ooos and Ahhhs at my sturdy and bright looking Lumias back in the day. Of course, the L950XL was not at the same level of build quality that previous models had...
  • Only downside was processing those RAW files, but otherwise I agree.
  • If you need Speed,  nope.  but if you were taking photos of travel subjects like cities, back country etc.  the speed was fine.  The images were AMAZING.
  • Depreciation starts with a new technology making the previous obsolete, right? UWP is the first step to make win32 less compelling, I think. And erm... All Windows development currently seems to be a journey of several years. Win32 in MS Store seems to be taking off now? And remember that Win32 in MS Store is UWP, just not the way we are used to perceive it 😌 If we assume this trend continues to expand, win32 will eventually no longer be mainstream. This should mean that win32, at least as mainstream, might eventually become depreciated.
  • It could be category defining but what is the category?  Something like folding display, with potential reliability issues that is great at digital inking?  Who is causing riots to try and get such a device?  Are they in the Enterprise?  The Massively Screwed-up dys-Functional Team has to know that it will be DOA to the consumer!  Of course they are MSFT so they will do something that doesn't make sense!  
  • Maybe just maybe a different kind of all in one device if it included different peripherals like a Surface gaming option to go with One Note , AR and 3D modeling if I can stuff a  portable Windows 10 device with UWP and my most essential apps into a small over the shoulder bag and be able to say play my Xbox with Play anywhere, do some light work on a project if I am on a train or in the back of a car and write or do design work I am all in on that!  
  • Yeah, and you could say the same thing about Surface in 2011 before it came out.... Trolls like you are just hoping it fails.. Panos track record says you are most likely wrong. SMDH
  • It could replace an ultrabook but you're correct it couldn't not a high powered gaming device. With most of computing nowadays being done on a phone it is possible for a near future device being able to replace a phone, a laptop, and a tablet. Yet it the key part is not about the capabilities of the device its how its presented and marketed. MS always fails in the department. They have great ideas and devices but fall flat on their faces getting people to adopt devices which leads to all the issues that we have/had with Windows mobile.
  • Especially if its dockable.  The owner of the company I work for is a diehard MS hater, typically calling it 'evil', etc.  Loves his Apple products and doesn't even flinch when he complains about his email not working on his Iphone (or its running extremely show after an update) or the Ipad not being versatile enough.  He has a Surface Pro 3 docked with keyboard, mouse, and huge screen at the office and takes it with him when he leaves.  He's slowly coming around to seeing its power and diversity.  He did admit to me that if MS ever came out with a truly pocket sized PC that can do everything the Surface can do and be dockable that he would switch to it.  To bring all your digital life into one device that is with you at all times is a game changer.
  • Isn't that what Continuum could have been? MS binned it.
  • They repurposed it into CShell
  • People don't have monitors and keyboards lying around for docking. They will use a PC for PC things, not phone plus some monitor that's lying around. This is why Continuum got no use. In order for this whole "docking" idea to be feasible, you would need far more advanced technology to completely modularize each aspect of a computer: A phone running Windows 10, A box with a graphics card and processor that can be docked with the phone so you can play games or run high-powered computing applications at home. A screen+keyboard device that can be docked with the phone for travel.
  • Very not true. Just to give you an idea, I always use my Continuum to show Pictures for family I've taken at home. IT is simply a much better and social experience than passing around a small pocket device and a microscope. Also I get home and I simply use Continuum to play my favourite YouTube channel or Groove playlist to my TV rather than turning on my desktop for the same reason. I can also use it to simply play a Hidden Object game just fine streamed to the TV. Even at work I can just simply Continuum my device to the Windows 10 OS receiver software and quickly get things done on a mobile app that has no desktop alternative or the use of is forbidden in an enterprise environment.
  • What is the point of docking if you already have a box with a CPU and GPU hooked up to the monitor? It is 2017, your data should already be easily accssible through the cloud.
  • Listen to the latest wc podcast, they talk about this. At least for now, it's not meant to suddenly replace your phone.
  • What if, google brought the play store to full windows? hmm...
  • @rwalrond.....YES PLEASE!  I have that now...sort of,  but hving it just work instead of having to fire up MEMU would be IDEAL!
  • That's not going to happen. They already have ChromeOS for that, and as it looks today, it might actually replace Windows for most people in the long term. It looks like Windows 10, it's fast and most devices are quite cheap. It suits a lot of everyday "average" users. 
  • 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
  • If it runs Windows on Arm then technically it'll run millions of programs already made albeit older and more mature programs. Steam in your pocket anyone? On top of that it could run emulators. Throw in a little Xbox controller support and you have a formula for success. The only problem is Microsoft doesn't have a good track record of marketing. A good marketing compaign can sell anything. I say get out of the phone business. Phones are for grandparents and kids. The Surface Note will be for businesses, students who value productivity, real gamers, and enthusiasts.
  • The problem with those millions and millions of programs is they are designed for STATIC computing.  meaning sitting at a desk, table etc.   Apps let you do things while on the move,  like pay for items at stores, unlock hotel rooms etc,  check through airports etc without having to open or pull out anything.  just tap your phone and go.   it's JUST AWESOME.  MS missed the boat on this because of constant restarts,  and having to re code at every reboot.   It drove developers away.  Now,  they have to come out with a device "THEY" say is redefining....however,  it's called the best they could do when everything else failed.  The "throw some **** at the wall and see what sticks move" for mobile.   Thank god they developed MS apps for iphone and android so us people who actaully travel, move,  and are on the go,  can still access our information etc.   Most people who use windows mobile as their main phone are stuck in their parents basement at this point I think.   The grass IS GREENER on the other side.   Too bad fanboy blinders stop them from trying it out.  
  • A good marketing campaign can get the initial sale. Then the product has to actually perform. Marketing isn't the answer to a poor product.
  • They haven't been replacing anything here with all the apps. And they are not replacing high powered laptops. Has Apple ever been replacing anything high-powered like your PC or anything lasting for weeks with a single charge like your Nokia 3310? And so?
  • Even if it does all that, it's like a terrible football team with bad front office and coaching, drafting an awesome QB with their first pick in the draft. Only the loyalist will be excited, and then frustrated until front office changes occur, and by then the QB could be ruined.
    .
    I've lost faith in Nadella and team. The fact that they can't get v1 out this year (or probably next) tells you everything you need to know.
  • This device can only succeed if it includes a capable phone dialer.  Nobody wants two mobile devices in the pocket - one phone and one pocket LTE tablet.  It has to be a multi-function cellular pocket device which would create a new mobile category.  It is: - a tablet when unfolded - a phone when folded - a desktop with Ccontinuum - a notebook with Ink & Pen - a MR Viewer or a casual MR with a headset The year 2018 will a year of foldable phones.  Samsung, Lenovo, Xiaomi, Huawei and MS are all working on that form factor.  If MS licenses out the design to its OEM partners, that would open the floodgate for foldable W10 mobile delvices.  The key is that phone features have to be included.  
  • Preach!!!
  • It needs to have functionality of a true phone when in "phone" mode.  meaning, pay for things by tapping,  doing different things while mobile.  I have apple music covered because it would be running full 10 and I can use itunes on it for music so thats a bonus.  But the other things are "iffy"   Hmmmmm...if it runs full windows and not S,  I can load memu on it!  covered.  
  • No, what are you talking about? Your opinion means jack ****. For months you insist nothing was coming... Now?
    ........
    SMDH 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
  • Rodney...somewhere out there, are two people with a huge butterfly net looking for you.   You are that wacked out.   I still don't think it will see the light of day,  but if it does and I can do that,  I may buy one....who knows.   I know it's not going to replace my phone beceause it cannot and will not be able to do what I do with my phone on a daily basis...and again...can someone please break rodney's smiley menu please...he pounds on those faces like a neanderthal!   OH and BTW....Me,  being a normal sensible human being...and not a CRAZED MAINIAC FANGIRL like yourself am open to devices from every side of the tech coin...unlike yourself who is so close minded and ******* crazed to see something besides a microsoft product could be good has.  If it works I will buy it.  I dont give two sweet ***** who makes it...but if it is a POS i will call it out too...I.E.  windows 10 mobile.  Unlike you CRAZED MAINIAC FANGIRL.
  • One thing I was hoping for is MS taking the advice of creating a new category by simply putting a modular device on the table that is a simple bluetooth earpiece and microphone to wear, could also be included in some smart glasses, a Band-like Cortana-powered device for receiving and displaying incoming calls without having to take your foldable device out of your pocket / backpack / underwear, or whathaveyou... Now this could replace a mobile, since the most annoying thing is to always having to pick the phone up for phone calls, while it is basically being kept small, making it useless for other purposes for that very functionality. With that gone, you take away the need to keep it super small.
  • Surface Pro: A TABLET that can replace your PC.
    Surface Book: A PC that can also be a TABLET.
    Surface Studio: An AIO that can also be your creative machinery.
    Surface Laptop: A PERFECT Laptop for the masses.
    Surface Note 😉 : A Telephony/Note taking device that can replace your TABLET.
  • Good one: Surface Note, a 10' foldable device. In your pocket just 5'. Or 12/6...
  • A 5" folded device could only unfold to a maximum of 7.5". Unless it unfolds on its short side (top or bottom) which would be an odd aspect ratio when unfolds!
  • The replacing the phone part will be very tough. Apps still matter on phones.
  • If you are a gamer a) a phone that runs win10pc app, can dock on a gamepad for XPA gaming, has browser with extensions b) a phone runs only phone app. Which one would you choice? Obvious... A.
    XPA and cloud sync are free anyway. I'm a game programmer, but I draw sometimes for my GF,. I think this kinda device could be good for sketching on the go. You won't have OneDrive on Demand on other OS either. I'll throw away my Nexus for such a device tbh.
  • You just gave me an idea.   A gaming dock with GPU etc all in the dock for gaming.  that would be a cool feature.  Something smaller than an xbox,  but incorporate GPU extra memory etc for gaming.  hmmmmmm.
  • I do however think that this will fail or at least have a very rough start. but not for the reasons you suggest. Whit your suggestion I think you are missing the point. Who owns a tablet , phone and Laptop, usually negects that tablet now because the phone does most of what it need. The think is however tablets are still nesessary beacause some times you may need to mark up a pdf or want to watch a movie on a larger screen. 1 device that handles both would be great.  Also, when it comes time to upgrade for those people wou highligh, would they rather purchase another phone and tablet or just one device? where they'll have to carry 2 shargers for etc. I think this surface device would have a hard time because they are not the only ones working on such a category. the Surface Pro and Studio came out of left field and blindsided Apple and Google. but thanks to leaks people are already guessing what Microsoft does next. When samsung makes theirs areound the same time they will have a foldable device that has developer support and an already existing app base to draw from. MS will have mostly nothing for the phone part of this device. the ONLY selling point would be the potential for continum and running desktop grade applications, which most consumers don't need or want and may run away from because desktop windows still has a semi bad rep in people's eyes. MS should have still been pusing Windows 10 mobile instead of prematurly euthanising it.
  • Reading through the comments, I don't understand how can so many people fail to grasp the obvious. The reason why any kind of revolutionary device will not be enough to invert the tide is because Apple and Google now have the developer critical mass on their side. "Developers, Developers, Developers", remember? Microsoft releases a foldable phone? Great, awesome, a year later, both Google and Apple release their own, with integration with their own services and first-party apps which are absent from Windows. A single device cannot bring about the revolution and paradigm shift or whatever, both Google and Apple have pockets as deep if not deeper than MS, does anyone really think they will just slumber seeing a competitor eating their shares away? ... Some people just need to have a grip and come to terms with the reality.
  • > Great, awesome, a year later, both Google and Apple release their own,
    > with integration with their own services and first-party apps which are
    > absent from Windows
    Can either iOS or Android...
    1. do XPA gaming on their phone?
    2. have Chrome / Edge with extension?
    3. OneDrive on Demand typpa system level cloud drive implementation? > "Developers, Developers, Developers
    Are you saying win10pc is niche enough that devs in the world should ignore? 2017, are we ready to pour our work tools onto those mobile OSes?
  • What's wrong with having options? Y'all act like this is the second PC form factor ever to come along..
    ......
    I wonder why the trolls are panicking?🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
  • And still they will not care since it's running the same OS and apps they work on for desktops. And that's the beauty of it for Microsoft. For any new device they try to spread in the world, They will not care when failing. And end-users won't either, since it's not the killing of a platform anymore.
  • Is Cshell and windows core os different
  • Is Cshell and windows core os different
  • CShell is the new shell for next gen windows which is responsible for handling UI, it's main feature is adaptability. Windows Core OS, as name suggests is the core of Windows OS, it will give Windows modularity instead of versions of Windows as we have right now. This is intended to finally achieve the dream of one OS for all devices in its purest form. Right now, OneCore still does it I think on API level but WCOS will improve it even further and get this to even lower levels.  
  • That is a very impressive summary, and (I think) accurate 😌
  • Category Creation a la Surface is one thing, as it became widely popular in many segments of PC users, but inking? I'm in the tech industry and think I pick up a pen or pencil only two or three times A WEEK. I put my Surface Pro 4 pen away about three weeks after I got it. Now, if they kept the Band technology alive it would be great to keep the foldable device in your pocket while using the Band to do more like replying to texts, making phone calls, etc.
  • Inking is a new requirement we are seeing in our enterprise.  Users want the ability to jot down notes in meeting and the flexiblity of converting it to typed text later.  We are getting request all the time for this feature.
  • I don't know, I've tried this in meetings and in the end I've always returned to pen and paper and then typing up the notes later and I'm the type that hates having anything on paper.
  • Stay current, the developments in Windows 10 and inking are amazing. Now in FCU the pen became a lot more usable!
  • My problem with this is that the same was said to be true for he Kinect, and now it's gone. It's like Microsoft is handling such features only based on its need for profit.
  • Yet inking on Windows goes back to WinXP, it isn't new, just reaching maturity
  • Let me know if your old pen works for inking now. Otherwise it's like a new technology, dumping your stuff you already have to make you buy and produce profit for them.
  • My pen from a WinXP machine worked all the way through my Dell Venue 8. The Surface protocol has a different pen but the experience is the evolution of the older concept. It is a straw man argument to sat you never upgrade old hardware. You can use the new pen protocols on old XP era inking programs.
  • I agree 😊 Since AU, I have tested Windows Ink, and every seasonal update have improved this by noticeable amounts. I am now at the point, where I can start to use this for writing and drawing digitally without a big discernable difference - And this is the same hardware since the beginning! It has just gradually improved with software updates only. A wonderful new trend with Windows 10 devices ❤ 
  • Your reasoning viayour anecdote is highly flawed. The work people in the tech industry do historically dont' revolve around writing and drawing, apart from basic note taking. Tech people aren't like architects, (like myself) or engineers, or artists, or industrial desigenrs etc, where pen and paper is the start of and life blood of every project they work on. Just because the digital pen and tablet are a pieice of technology means that it is meant for people in the tech industry. It's asinine to think that jsut becaue one group has no use for it that he catergory shouldn't exist. I've been waiting for such a device for decades. the surface line is the closets we have come.
  • Probably the same frequency that I initiate phone calls on a phone. And still, there is a SIM in "each" smart phone out there.
  • please be fast... if nadella will notice it, will kill it
  • win10arm is under Nadella... WinPhone isn't. Is, devs will share equal investment into iOS, Android, Win10pc (including the s), WinPhone future, viable to you?
    iOS, Android and win10 has huge user base but WinPhone doesn't. No users no devs, no devs no users. Which is why they need win10arm. A portable win10.
  • Microsoft seems to enjoy being the first to do many things and then just leave everyone in limbo and move onto next project, agree with many others that almost most users have a mobile phone, tablet and laptop/computer and a foldable phablet/tablet device will not fit in unless is a mobile phone with Android as the OS and meets or betters the specifications of other leading devices including IP ratings, camera and etc... Currently on my desk I have 12x Surface RT, and over £2000 worth of Lumia handsets which clients have returned as is no longer fit for purpose and other limitations/issues therefore will not be recommending any other hardware from Microsoft unless there is good grounds on them truly supporting it long term, been burnt too many times to do that again and too busy switching clients to Android mobile phones and tablets because in Microsoft's ecosystem there is many apps/services still missing to commit to it, not sure how or even can Microsoft can fix these areas without an Mobile platform of their own. It is a shame because we truly did commit to Windows Phone and Microsoft services for the last few years.
  • I wasn't fond of WinPhone, cause I know it won't work, but this is Win10 on ARM. It runs what pc runs.
    iOS, Android and WinPC all have huge user base. WinPhone? If you are a gamer a) a phone that runs win10pc app, can dock on a gamepad for XPA gaming, has browser with extensions b) a phone runs only phone app. Which one would you choice? Obvious... A.
    XPA and cloud sync are free anyway. I'm a game programmer, but I draw sometimes for my GF,. I think this kinda device could be good for sketching on the go. You won't have OneDrive on Demand on other OS either. I'll throw away my Nexus for such a device tbh.
  • Arguably yes there is a market for it however the issue is that Microsoft has let down many users, developers/designers, hardware manufactures and other forms of partners and contributors too many times in the last few years to be trusted that easily again, I personally and in business been affected by many areas so have our clients and here are just a few examples: 1. Windows Phone
    2. Lumia hardware
    3. Zune, MixRadio and Groove Music Pass
    4. Unlimited OneDrive storage
    5. Skype
    6. Skype for Business
    7. Surface RT
    8. Band
    9. Reading List app with no migration option/tool to Edge
    10. Sudden Office 365 for Business price rises (approx. up by 20% per subscription!!!)
    11. Kinect is meant to be another one now
    and much more... Yes I also love the idea of a foldable device and Windows flexibility however lack of ecosystem and platform support is very big issue for us, we cannot even get the most basic however essential apps for business through it to use it as intended therefore likely to have to go with Note 8 instead until Microsoft does have an ecosystem that is worth investing in again.
  • I think such device (win10arm) runs win10pc app and share win10pc store, and
    1. we are not ready to pour our work force into mobile OSes.
    2. how would indie, freshman, startup choose? a) to code their *.exe old fashion way? coed your own mechanism to install, update, crack-proof, uninstall, advertise, etc.will your no-name-exe do my system noharm? will you remove the mess in the registry during uninstallation? b) skip win10 as a whole?
  • WC article headline in 2020 - "See the Cancelled Microsoft Andromeda Foldable Device That Was Never Released".
  • "We saw no way we could compete alongside the Galaxy X."
  • "We saw no reason for a third foldable device to be on the market."
  • Yeah. That is the PC way of saying our products are inferior so we cannot compete.
  • Pocketable device to replace smartphone plus tablet and be better than either or both seems good to me.
  • Large phones already did that. Even if Microsoft makes one, it will have the same issues. No apps, no ecosystem and an immature OS.
  • bleached gets it ^
  • No, no he doesn't
  • So you think this mythical device with be released in the near future (
  • Personally, I doubt it. If they do release it, I predict it to flop. Then Google or Apple will come along about a year or two later, make their iteration of it, and it will gain greater adoption due to more mature and popular ecosystems. Just my opinions / predictions.
  • Samsung will release this same device first. No way Microsoft beats them. They don't have the display technology to outgun Samsung.
  • No devs, no Apps, no Ecosystem, result = DOA.
  • Large phone cannot do XPA, will have no browser with extension and OneDrive on Demand. win10arm runs what pc runs. Are you saying pc have no apps / applications?
    Or are you saying, in 2017, world's ready to ditch Windows and start using mobile OS for work?
  • Windows does not have the touch apps required for a device under 10 inches and a device under 10 isn't going to replace your laptop. That screen size just isn't productive with Windows.
  • > Windows does not have the touch apps required for a device under 10 inches
    messenger, instagram, spotify, windows central, xbox, line, twitter, todo, onenote, ムビチケ、file explorer uwp, calendar, mail, etc seem to scale fine?
  • No they don't, their screen size is too small for effective inking in many scenarios.
  • since I've rebooted my interest in writing and only prefer to own/manage 1 device, this will be perfect for me. Native calling/sms isn't that important since i don't use either on my current device (950xl). I use Skype for the occasional call and outlook handles my sms, of which i hardly use. A pocket pc is what I'm truly after.
  • Pocket PC? My experience with Pocket PCs and tablets is that doing handwriting on the Pocket PC was cumbersome because you could only write a word or two before you had to go to the next line. Tablets made handwriting on digital devices sufficiently efficient. That's why finding the sweet spot in screen size vs. portability will be crucial for a device so focused on handwriting (which I applaud). I do believe it'll also have to do a great job of media consumption, communications, and ideally "normal computer" functionality or a single purpose device may have a hard time finding a large enough audience to sustain it. In other words, it still needs to replace my smartphone. I'm already carrying my Surface and my Windows Phone much of the time. If I can drop the Windows Phone and replace it with this, then it'll serve the needs the phone does now, and become the notetaking device when I'm not carrying the Surface as well as when the Surface isn't on while going from meeting to meeting, etc. (quick notes). I do not see a large market for devices that "only do handwriting." There are just too many other things we want to do for which we will carry a device which could then do an adequate job for notetaking that would make carrying a single-purpose device too much trouble for too many people.
  • Several times now, have we been told that ths is not for everyone. I believe that also excludes "large market". ...it literally has to carve its own niche market (paraphrasing) - As Zac Bowden would say. 
  • I just don't buy what a foldable screen is going to bring, it sounds messy. Better a mini surface (screen + detachable keyboard). A detachable virtual keyboard wouldn't make sense, so it all seems a bit of a strange idea. 
  • I'm sure OEMs will come out with other designs. Making a 5" 6" arm device isn't difficult...
  • Agreed.  Foldable is unnecessary bulk.   Just make a new 950xl surface device running w10 and include pen and keyboard.   ******* the folding gimmick 💩.   
  • The cycle continues...discontinue another product (Kinect), article reappears (Zac or Jason) on some mystery hardware. Fed up of the games.
  • Yet you still comment...
  • When I look around the world today there's really only one thing that needs to happen-more styluses people! Let's get working on this now! Gotta have more stylus, just gotta.
  • *Pulls out stylus from Note 8 (while fondly remembering his Nokia N900) Viva la stylus revolution!!!!!!!!
  • I need device that not only has inherent structural weakness because it folds, but also has easily misplaced accessories. Throw in poor cellular reception and an assortment of dongles for Continuum and it's a guaranteed smash hit.
  • It kinda reminds me of the mobile device they showed on their YouTube video about their future vision (Microsoft Office account had uploaded it )
  • I think the screens will work closer to how they worked in that video rather than just folding out. It'll be a single screen you can use like a cell that'll foldout when you want more space. 
  • Inspite of all the 'past'... I would still buy it if a 'current-surface-quality' foldable device with telephony, inking and full Win10 comes out... Just one prayer MS ... since you have withheld it for so long in the name of perfection then bring the 2 hinge version as so that in-spite of being thick it will be a decent enough tablet as in this patent https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160109908A1/en
  • I was playing golf with Nadella yesterday. It's going to be named Surface Courier.
  • The odds are better when you would say, you were playing golf with Trump. He plays golf every four days. :-P
  • Not true. When I was with Nadella yesterday, he mentioned no such golf game, and, he knows I would have wanted to play. I love golf and I'm awful at it, so he likes to play against me. You're story seems to be lacking in truth, but, I do like the name "Surface Courier".
  • I believed your story until you said "you're". With renewed doubt, I called Bill Gates after reading that and he checked his Google Calendar on his Galaxy Note 8 and said that Satya was in Windows Retrenchment 2018 planning during the time you claimed to be with Satya. You should hear from Ballmer by close of business today.
  • Sorry, you are not part of the inner-circle hence why you did not know about our golf game yesterday. We played golf as we  had to  discuss the recent contract we signed with AGC for the Surface Courier screens as we will not use Gorille Glass VI that Corning offered. Corning was not able to produce the forecasted amounts we have in mind in view of the issue they still face with GG VI.
  • So wierd... he can take me to the bath house, but doesnt want to be seen with me on the golf course? I'm hurt! Also, he told me that there would be no need for Gorilla Glass, as it will be a foldable display and then had Geroge and Suzanne from GG show up at the gold course??? #FriendsNoMore
  • He told me he was canceling golf.
  • I think Trump had the course on lockdown for his week long,  weekly outing.
  • $1200 to $1500 Surface Fold...Who's going to buy it if it can't do win32 apps?
  • Who is going to buy it if it can? Win32 is useless on a small screen with no keyboard.
  • Just as Android apps are useless on anything than a small screen ;-)
  • Exactly. You don't see 13 inch Android devices for the same reason.
  • I use android apps on my 24" monitor all the time.  Far from useless....try again ole bonzey boy!  Fire up MEMU,  read magazines on it,  do all kinds of things using android apps on my desktop system.   What I cannot do is ANYTHING with a windows device while mobile because of NO APPS.   
  • Interesting because I have apps to everything I need in my job and personal life on my 950, plus in Continuum the browser is the equal to any desktop for websites that "don't have an app."  Yeah I don't keep thirty tabs open or really see the point to most extension so personal use may vary but I have a lot more use for my Surface 3 and 950 than I do my Nexus 7 (makes a good ereader though).
  • I am the opposite.   I use apps because we are traveling and on the go ALOT,  you can't do mobile pay, deposit cheques, open and unlock hotels, rental cars,  etc with websites.   Just a few for example.  And now,  hell you don't even have a music streaming option on windows mobile anymore.
  • Spotify and Pandora both work just fine on my 950. If this device runs W10 you can also include Amazon Music. Plus you have Iheattradio and tuned in.
  • Mobile pay works on the 950, I just choose not to use it. I have two different cards compatible with it.
  • Not here,  and Spotify now is listed as pc only in the store.   Mobile pay on windows mobile is non existent here.  
  • With pen they work well
  • Kinda, maybe. Still doesn't replace a keyboard for anything but the simplest tasks.
  • In education the pen is mightier than the keyboard quite often.
  • MS, still maybe a few years from this. I dont think the software is there yet to provide a good experience (as shown in the video)
  • What software isn't? have you used onenote and edge on a touch enabled device like a surface pro recently (fall creator update)? Website owners should use microdata, rdfa etc. from schema.org to make the future happen.
  • As both a very mobile IT tech and a digital artist, this type of device would change my life.  I already use my Surface Pro 2 to take notes during meetings, do sketches for logos, design layouts, or just doodles, and just about anything else I'd use a laptop for.  But while I'm sitting at my desk with my docked workstation laptop with 3 screens, its not quite as convienent to use as a notepad or sketchbook.  Its awkward paired with my laptop.  A smaller, notepad (or large phone) sized tablet would be perfect.  Or when I'm in someone else's office and needing to create a ticket for them and add notes on the spot.  Or in a restaurant and quickly jot down notes or do a couple of sketches....Man, this would be a life changing device. As far as other uses: watch HBO's Westworld to see the possibilities. 
  • You can buy a Note 8 today. You will have all the apps, including Microsoft's services, as well as a mature platform. This new device will be starting from the ground up. I don't see them actually releasing it. The landscape will be even tougher for them in a couple years. They needed to release this device years ago.
  • I have looked at a Note but I would prefer to stay in MS's ecosystem as I'm already pretty heavily invested in it: Onedrive, Onenote, Office 365, etc.  I switched from Google to MS several years ago and haven't looked back.  I am looking at replacing my Nokia this Christmas with a Pixel as I don't have many options otherwise but I'd prefer to stay away from Samsung as they load up their devices with a ton of bloatware that I have to root to get rid of.  I love my Surface, I take it with me just about everywhere, but a smaller one with cellular capabilities running Windows 10 with Ink would be a game changer. 
  • You don't have to root it. I use an app from the Play Store to disable all the Samsung bloat from my S8. I would like a Pixel, but the Samsung hardware is better and was available 6 months before. It won't be a game changer. It will be ignored like all of Microsoft's mobile devices. They just have no way to compete with the established platforms and small tablets have already fallen out of favor. There is a reason you can't find a decent 8" windows tablet or Android tablet. Even the iPad mini has basically been abandoned. There just isn't any point when you have an always connected large phone with you.
  • Hey Bleached, Can you tell me what app you are using and which Samsung apps you disable. I have A Note 8 that I love and I have colored around with BK disabler but not sure what I can safely disable without losing important functions like phone backups and other things.
  • I use Package Disabler Pro. It was a dollar or two. You can disable almost anything so you do have to be a bit careful. It isn't hard to enable them again if something does get borked. I just disabled anything I didn't use and didn't seem important. Windows trained me well for this!
  • I actually bought that originally and then switched to BK. Thanks for responding. I want to figure this out though because it boggles my mind that a device with 6GB RAM only has 2 free. I have 6 widgets and not much else running. Drives me insane that everything you disable through the regular system just restarts. I will get to work on this.
  • That is how Android is supposed to work. As I understand it, it is different than Windows. It will use all the available RAM it can and free up it up as needed. Supposedly, free RAM is wasted RAM.
  • If you write your program with C# or Java, it will do GC.
    Newer C++ version supports smart pointer, it will GC.
    The only differences is Windows has paging, Android will just kill the other services / apps for memory. GC is fine for apps or smaller games but troublesome for intensive games.
    * you cannot manage your memory
    Ever heard of heap fragmentation? Even if system tells you that you have enough memory for you to work with but there's actually none and game will crash.
  • The problem is that people think this has to be a blockbuster out of the gate.  It will be niche to start, but there are plenty of uses for it in Enterprise, Education, healthcare and such.  In fact the biggest danger is that it might erode away from Surface Pro sales as it would be more portable, always connected and capable of inking.  I could see the concept being ruggedized (probably by Panasonic) and doing well in field work.
  • Touchwiz has come a long way, its no longer bloated as it used to be, I'm using note 8 with microsoft launcher, have some basic samsung apps, s-health etc ok to hve them, the device maintenance takes care of memory management, no external apps needed, Knox is good for security.
  • Sylvrwulf,  MS apps work better on android than the do on MS devices right now.   Part of moving people away from windows mobile.   The note 8 would be ideal for you.   All MS apps are available, pen support for sketching,  DEX if needed,  plus every other app you can think of.
  • There is a HUGE difference between the inking experience on the size of this device (roughly about iPad Mini size) and even the larger S8.  I've tried the S8 for my inking needs (education, chemistry) and it is just too cramped.  My Surface 3 works great, but is a little too large for my pocket :)  Get something about the size of my HP Prime Calculator (8.5 cm X 18 cm) when folded and you could get a nice 8-9" screen unfolded.
  • "It's too late to compete" has to be the dumbest statement I've ever heard. Gates and Ballmer would never have allowed a mindset like that to become the culture at Microsoft. Most of the categories that Microsoft succeeded in were ones in which they arrived late or where they had to creep up from far behind.  Apple doesn't seem to think it's too late for Mac to compete with Windows considering all the contracts they're signing with GE, Walmart, etc. just this past week. Keep waving the white flag of retrenchment and we'll see where that gets you.
  • Balmer is the one who caused that. He was years late with Windows phone after laughing at the iPhone. Years late with an unfinished product killed Microsoft's chance. They have no way to compete now. That is reality.
  • In my case, I would love to have such a device. Most of my mobile needs are data driven, not phone driven. I currently have an X3 and I could envision a product like this to be my next mobile device. It would be a very portable tablet with the data connections necessary to use anywhere. The fact that it could also do the phone part - all the better. I am currently switching my wife's phone from an Icon to a Samsung S7. To me, the android world is not very appealing so far. Yes, there are tons of apps, but I really do not need to use many of them on a portable device. Guess that is just my use case. I am going to try to ride out my X3 into 2018 to what finally does shake out. Maybe I will have a Microsoft solution to my future phone needs.
  • I keep loads of blue notebooks with info. This could be useful, but it would depend on the execution and it would have to be as easy as a notebook. 
  • Man. As a HUGE fan of Microsoft for years on end, this excites me for sure. Is it the device for me? I don't know. I SO badly want a working smartphone. Beautiful hardware AND a beautiful OS. Only Microsoft and Panos can do that for me. But they won't. It makes no sense for business I get it. At this point I have become desperate. So... Is this device for me?? Likely not at all! But when Panos is on that stage showing it and talking about it, I'll want it. Partly because I know it will look amazing. But also because I like the idea of Windows in my pocket. HOPEFULLY the OS looks like something I'm used to. And IF it comes to Verizon I'm sold.
  • I really hope that this device is ready before I'll have to replace my Lumia
  • I could definitely buy this. Was looking into galaxy note 8. Felt a bit plastic. So go ahead Microsoft.
  • Plastic on a Note 8?? There is nothing plastic on them but maybe the fingerprint sensor...
  • Probably he failed to notice the case on the unit he was checking out :P
  • Unless the back is glass, it is plastic, current wireless charger doesn't work through a metal back.
  • How about make one of these that can then attach to a Surfacebook base - so you really do have ONE device that can fit in your pocket or become a laptop or unfold to a tablet?
  • I was a Windows Fanboy from 2003-2015, starting on a HP Ipaq, ending on a Lumia 920. I moved on, too many disappointments. Too often they broke their promises. I do dislike Android compared to Windows Phone/Mobile. But right now, I can't think of any device that would make me buying a Microsoft product again. I just don't trust them anymore. Microsoft, go completely focus on the B2B market. And find a way to stay relevant there. With B2C you screwed up too often, IMHO. (product- and softwarewise). mH
  • Why would B2B trust them as well? 
  • Seems that B2B is starting to lose confidence too: Delta, GE, Walmart and more will follow.
  • See, I've been here since the HP Jornada (prior to them buying Compaq) and I have never felt disappointed in an upgrade... Still love my 950.
  • I love the idea... add a small basic durable flip-phone style Bluetooth handset, with a great speaker for music, that can easily communicate reminders, commands, destinations, notes, etc. all by voice commands over it and onto the foldable device portion - and I'm 'all' in (of course this device would HAVE to be easy and fast to access; LOTS of storage; durable & scratchPROOF; weatherproof; the pen would have to be secure and add NO bulk to the unit's overall dimensions). It would be great to have so much organizational flexibility in a compact device like this, IMO
  • I would definitely buy this! I have watched the 2009 YouTube vid and was impressed. Never heard of the Microsoft Courier before, but I'd love it. Still holding on to my Lumia930, because I cannot buy a 950(xl) for a decent price in my country. So I cannot run insider builds anymore for mobile... :'( but will wait a bit longer for this to become available. Was already thinking about moving to a Samsung S8 with microsoft launcher, but this article gives me hope for the new Microsoft hardware category. Microsofts motto for one of the devdays (now techdays) was "break new grounds" about 2 years back or something. But for hardware, this is breaking new grounds. Ahead of the competition. Just like Surface and Hololens.
  • MS has lost it's faith due to it's irresponsible Windows Phone management!
    They always ignored WP users' demands of features & now PUTTING ALL THE RESPONSIBILITIES BEHIND THE DEATH OF WP TO USERS & DEVELOPERS!
  • Lumia 950 XL is the latest thing from Microsoft I gaved money for. Everything in the future will be Android, which I hate but I respect their work and vision. Microsoft has no vision, nor future.
  • If this device iterated on what Mobile Contiuum was suppossed to evolve into, with x86 support, that would be a game changer for Enterprise mobile computing.
  • If MS hope people buy this thing to replace their smartphone/tab/laptop, at the very min they need whatsapp UWP, they need top line camera and improved continuum(dock, lapdock, tabdock).
  • Microsoft is an American company. They hardly care for products and services outside of the states. WhatsApp being of of them, since it's bigger in other regions. 
  • I will buy it but if it comes to late after I had no other way but to switch platform then I will never touch anything that has to do with Microsoft that's how I angry I feel at the moment ...
    By the way please fix the bug that don't let us adding a comment on the PC app.
  • You guys have become incredibly good at giving good news, future devices, and spreading FUD at the same time. 
  • I understand that they want to create a new category, but does people need such a device? Small audience + no apps + lack of trust + questionable OS ... doesn't sound good.
  • Jesus... you weirdo's who continue with this old, tired, played out mantra about apps need to go the f*ck away now. 
  • Seriously? What do you use on a device? Smartphone, tablet, laptop, desktop, smartwatch or whatever. You just look at it? You can't ignore this problem, it's the biggest f*****g problem that they had and made them to give up on mobile.
  • Blah, blah and more blah. Like I said, go away now. You prove, provide and offer nothing. 
  • Grow up!
  • Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you. 
  • Awful thing to suggest, Marius. I'll never grow up, and I wouldn't wish that fate on anyone else either. Life's too short to spend it repressing yourself.
  • Unfortunately, the lack of mainstream apps is a real thing now. I understand that back in the days this "lack of apps argument" was stupid because people were comparing the number of apps in iOS and Android where at least 50% of those apps were garbage. Today, first party apps are lacking. For example, financial apps are almost non-existent. So, when we Win10/Win10m users say lack of apps, it real means lack of essential apps we use on day to day. We are not talking about snapchat or 100 third party versions of youtube and twitter apps like on iOs or Android store.  
  • dont argue with blind fanboys
  • My mistake.
  • Don't forget that it will take MS forever to finally actually release this thing.
  • Are you saying win10pc has no apps or applications? If you are a gamer a) a phone that runs win10pc app, can dock on a gamepad for XPA gaming, has browser with extensions b) a phone runs only phone app. Which one would you choice? Obvious... A.
    XPA and cloud sync are free anyway. I'm a game programmer, but I draw sometimes for my GF,. I think this kinda device could be good for sketching on the go. You won't have OneDrive on Demand on other OS either. I'll throw away my Nexus for such a device tbh.
  • Let's say this OS will emulate win32 apps, but still remains the problem with optimisation for small screen and performance. Plus, we don't have to many win32 apps that are useful on-the-go, most of them are old. And for gamers, I don't think will be that powerful to run real PC games and UWP games almost doesn't exist.
  • messenger, instagram, spotify, windows central, xbox, line, twitter, todo, onenote, ムビチケ、file explorer uwp, calendar, mail, etc seem to scale fine no?
  • Hirox K,  NO banking, hotel, travel, shopping apps known to exist on windows anymore.  websites don't cut it when mobile.  No tap to pay system available,  no features you get with mobile apps.  Static computing is all that it's good for!
  • Plus local apps, that basically never existed. They admitted that they couldn't attract developers and there are some reasons: Some mistakes from Microsoft, some companies don't want to invest in three mobile ecosystems, some people just hate Microsoft and so on. Maybe the PWAs will become a thing on Android and iOS and could save Microsoft's store.
  • I think you can worry that later.
    A new ecosystem/OS (e.g. WinPhone) that is not Windows, it's not iOS or Android, will never succeeded, it will continue to be a niche OS.
    A portable win10pc is a start, it runs what PC runs, and we are not ready to move away from PC yet.
    Tell me why this (to join force with win10pc) is not a smarter move? I own Nexus (nothing's new oniDroid tbh, it kinda boring right now) and I'm also a gamer.
    2 devices lying before me.
    A) can do XPA, have browser with extension, has OneDrive on Demand and sync with my PCs.
    B) is Android.
    I'll def go with A. XPA and cloud sync is free anyway. I have a gamepad in m bag all the time. * I inject my codes into Edge (and Chrome).
    To automate things, to stop vid auto-play (and hit arrow keys to control volume and playhead, hit home to restart the vid), remove ads, to operate Edge with kb-only, etc.
    Extension support is important to me, not all site are pleasant to read. Except the tap to pay (I'll not miss it), I do banking online, I order hotel online, I order my flight ticket online, I shop online.
    App is important, no doubt, but so does web. If a "e"-commerce cannot be done with web... there must be something wrong...
    However, year 2017, SNS's prob more important... in most people's life (not mine).
  • Pocketable/foldable Windows device with phone capabilities and the ability to connect it to a large screen and keyboard is the device that most people naturally NEED. This is a fact and I can prove it. The situation now is that people are USED TO pieces of technologies, like smartphones, that are becoming outdated. I think that Microsoft is the right company at the right time to make the transition to the new unified conception.
  • Smartphones outdated?!? Since when? Every has one even in third world countries. There are more smartphones in the world than PCs. I don't see them going away any time soon. Also, on what carriers will this thing make call from? Without carrier support in the US it is dead as a phone. Wi-fi calling? Well, the whole world is not yet blanketed in Wi-Fi.
  • It may have eSIM and if so users could choose the carriers they'd like to use that Microsoft is in partnership with. They announced partnerships with several carriers for eSIM not too long ago. I talk about that is greater detail here: MICROSOFT NEEDS TO LEVERAGE PARTNERSHIPS, eSIM AND EDGE COMPUTING TO POSITION ULTRAMOBILE PCS
    https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-phone-partnerships-esim-and-edge-... Here's an excerpt: "eSIM and 'bypassing' carriers"
    -----------------------------------
    "Windows 10 on ARM doesn't support telephony yet, but we're conceivably moving swiftly in that direction. With Qualcomm's integrated eSIMs, Microsoft's partners are bringing always-connected, cellular PCs to market beginning this year. eSIMs require less space, allow for lighter and thinner devices, and enable connected devices to be recognized on cellular networks just as traditional SIM cards do. They also allow users greater flexibility with choosing cellular providers. Consumers will have on-device ability to switch between carriers and plans as they see fit and to purchase data directly from the Windows Store. Microsoft announced carrier and OEM partnerships for cellular PC vision.
    eSIMs on tablets are nothing new. But if cellular PCs segue to telephony-enabled ultramobile PCs, the flexibility in carrier choice for voice and not just data helps Microsoft step back into the phone space "from a side door" while still not competing directly with smartphones.
    Telephony-enabled ultramobile PCs could offer flexible telephony options to the mobile space.
    If iPhone and Android phone users purchase an ultramobile PC for PC purposes, they would in effect have a second "phone." This trojan phone effect could be a slow and methodic strategy to bring flexible telephony options to the mobile space.
    The GSM Association (GSMA), a body of over 800 mobile carriers, has standardized eSIM guidelines. If Microsoft progresses from eSIM-capable cellular PCs to telephony-enabled ultramobile PCs, it will be following the evolution of supporting technologies."
  • Well said Jason!
    Surface Fold will have an eSIM...
  • It's all about the dongles.
  • lol
  • I'm in, but it had better be the first half of 2018. At least a peek to keep me on the hook. My Alcatel Idol One is going to be in its twilight years by then. So I'll be facing replacing the battery to keep it going or buy something new. If there's no Windows 10 options I'll have to follow the rest of my family and move to Apple. Never Google!
  • Don't get your hopes up. First half of 2018 would be very surprising. It would have to be fully designed and possibly in manufacturing now for that. I'd say late 2018 by the earliest, given how vague the rumors are.
  • This sounds like a dream. And that is exactly what it is at this moment in time and that is why I will try not to expect it to arrive on the market any time soon. Then when it does get released I can get excited about it without being disappointed or I can just skip the getting excited part if it does not live up the ideal scenario that is being portrayed in the video. But in case someone from Microsoft is indeed reading the comments: I want this.
  • If its being released in 2018 as the MS source indicated to Zac, then the hardware design is presumably substantially complete and now it is going thru software testing...
  • :)) what testing? with what engineers? Nadella made sure to fire them long ago...
  • Whatever..........
  • MS, if you need a beta tester, call me. Ok? This is the device I've been longing for since the launch of the original Tablet PC. This can't come soon enough.
  • Aaaaaand ..... It's canceled.
  • As I imagined, this device would be targetted at specific users and will be niche just like surface studio, it will neither replace laptop nor phone, probably will be a digital assistant/notepad for executives/managers.
  • Samsung will have a foldable screen Galaxy Note in 2018. Samsung has the resources, screens, distributions channels, marketing, Android scale and mindshare to made this Courier wannabe an afterthough.
  • I would be very interested. I'm in a place where with Surface, Invoke and Kinect I rarely use my phone. I'd try a device like this 100% go. And bringing a pen to a sword fight is as the Joker said..."the pen is truly Mightier than the sword." Thanks jack
  • It will run true-UWP apps. All four of them?
  • Yeah, i wonder when will Rubino show up to say all store apps are true-UWP. (which they are not, btw, contrary with what Rubino is trying to sell).
  • Remember when he was trying to say W10M is Windows 10!
  • I give it a life span of 3 months; maybe longer than the Kin.
  • At the time they will launch it, if they launch it, Apple, Samsung and many others will have their new product keynotes and noone will bother with it...
  • Something positive. I'm happy.
  • From what year is this article? 😅
  • If true, this is great news because Windows phone would not be dead. This is a phone As for the "inking" part, doesn't sound useful. In order to replicate the advantages of paper, such as not continuously blasting electrons into your eyes, it would need to be an eink device, and be very big, which would make it useless as a phone.
  • If this comes to fruition, I'd be all over it like "hair on soap!" Well, almost... it'll need a replaceable battery PLEASE!
  • guranteed this will be a failure
  • For the love of God, just get on with it Microsoft. Start small, iterate, promote and, most of all by far, COMMIT to this new 'platform' - until your business ceases to exist if that's what it takes. Build it and they will come... Eventually. I'll certainly buy into it, if for no other reason than out of sheer desperation to avoid the business practices of Apple and especially Google. That's reason enough to build the third ecosystem. I may well be in a perceived minority, but I doubt I'm alone.
  • I'm still deciding on which OS to use in the future, apple or google. Ms in all its shapes and forms is off the table, I'm afraid I end up with Apple as they are the only company with a steady OS and relatively little problems with privacy and virus infection.
  • A 6" device that folds out to 10" full screen, no middle crease. Capable of running standard Windows programs and UWP apps and fully supportive of Surface Pen that's included with the device. Also included is a basic dock that'll allow connection with an external display, mouse and keyboard. An instant sell for me!
  • Also impossible to implement, but don't let that stop you.
  • No matter what device they have in tow at this point, MS needs to change that culture of starting something then giving up on it for any hiccup. Anyone who love microsoft product is not going to recommend it to friends and families anymore, IT will think twice before recommending a new MS device because Windows Phone set a bad precedent for them. Personally, at one point, I push six members of my family toward windows phone, I'm not  doing the same anymore in any circumstance.
  • It doesn't need to be a "foldable" screen, because I can't imaging glass all the sudden become "foldable", which is the material you need for quality screen specially with inking. The screen shown on prototypes, is bendable type display, not foldable. A foldable device, I imagine, would be akin of Samsung Galaxy Edge that can stretch the display beyond the straight edge. That could create a sort of seamless display if done right. But a single display that can "fold" is not possible at the moment. 
  • Of course yes!!!!!, this is an amazing device which Microsoft must market well to be in the mobile competitive world to stand among the crowd with this amazing device. Microsoft had to study different markets, market it differently in each section. People will definitely support this product. Everything comes to Microsoft, no doubt it takes time but keep the effort going. You have to plan differently to get into Indian markets(marketing strategy has to be different for India).
  • The question is how soon will it come to market?  Based on past experience, Microsoft will be late to market and won't understand why it didn't work.
  • Then, they'll drop support and leave you holding your dual screen nintendo DS look-a-like coaster.
  • I've not heard many talk about emulating Android on full Windows. There are applications that allow access to Play Store from a desktop pc (or I assume a Windows on Arm phone). Would this be by viable to address the complete app gap?
  • I think emulation performance may be a problem, and missing UWP API which is important for seamless experience.
  • In other words, it's Microsoft's business version of a Nintendo DS.
  • I'll buy one if it makes calls and runs Windows 10.  I hate long and skinny screens like the Note 8.  Prefer 16x9 or more squarish like my Surface Pro 5.  Love the Surface Pen, so one in my pocket would be fantastic.  I'll dump my droid in a heartbeat for this device.  
  • @adventurer64.....Your bike?  if so,  SWEET Brother.   I have the 1190 R!  
  • and WSheeps starts to get excited again.... Get ready to be DISSAPOINTED
  • :)) Actually, I would like for MS to launch this thing, only to watch them FAIL monumentally once more, and to see fanboys here running circles with their useless brick they paid over 1000$ for :)))
  • Inking is "not" just for "digital note taking" but also for "digital annotation and markup" on PDFs, ALL Microsoft Office apps, and nearly every "screen sharing or digital, multi-party whiteboard app" that is becoming ubiquitous across,all virtual meeting apps. ADD IT ALL UP: 1) ALL Creatives, artists, etc. 2) ALL digital note takers from students to engineers/scientists, researchers, etc. 3) ALL "conference room whiteboard users" 4) ALL Skype and competitor "screen sharing" app users for virtual meetings 5) ALL of the above who already use "digital annotation and inking" and can incorporate it on a truly MOBILE device. I am ready to buy this "new category" right now!
  • omg! I am so waiting for this device😍😍😍
  • "bring on R kelly, and tell him to stay away from my eyes"
  • You win the internet today.
  • For those who have been following this story, there is nothing NEW!!!! If I have influence, I will start leaking little by little to e.g. WC or even AAWP (where I would put most of my emphasis) It will be a beautiful story. It will be a combination of Phoenix rising from the ashes and a dedicated vision of orchestrating different innovations coming together. Stay tuned at AAWP.
  • Hope I can get one before my 950XL is no longer supported.
  • Was the L950 ever supported?
  • Satnav dropping Windows Phone is going to end up killing MSFT
  • Given what Samsaung has already accomplished on DEX, I can see a Microsoft folding tablet on WOA capable of docking to a monitor, keyboard, and mouse to give you a desktop-like experience, while serving all your communication, note taking, and tablet services at the same time. 
  • The only difference is that Samsung, and now Huawei, are both capable and committed, while MS is neither.
  • Very excited. It's about time. All those patterns should amount to something. Plus let us have it.
  • none of this is new news zac all of these points were reported on months ago
  • Lol. Really? The company who has started shipping new Surfaces bundled without Surface Pens citing lack of enough pen use? The same company will focus on digital pen and inking based category which backed out of phone continuum because the category was apparently too niche for mainstream market. Please excuse my cynicism but I'm skeptical of this Microsoft which doesn't have enough faith in its own ideas and is too quick to pull a plug on money-losing ventures. Of course you know where it is going don't you? The inevitable demise of windows phone in its current structure. And of all the moments they could have killed it, they chose the time when they were so close to their goal of one windows. They had all the pieces in place. They had UWP. They had Cshell and windows core OS in active development. They had an active community of windows phone insiders. They had the hardware technology in Qualcomm Snapdragon and Windows on ARM that they could've used in this transition phase for whatever they were planning next just by releasing another lumia device with Snapdragon 835 or better and have us windows insiders on the ride. With benefits of active passionate feedback. But no. Instead they chose to kill it. Because they were too afraid to be associated with Smartphones, as competitors to iOS and Android, as an ecosystem which lacks apps compared to iOS and android, as a telephony device which doesn't have Snapchat, ecosystem and appeal for the mainstream consumers, as a company whose vision for "phones" doesn't appeal to the media, corporate board members and shareholders. Or shortly put, a company whose senior leadership lack the grit to admit to the world that phones form-factor is necessary for their future plans and yet they are failing at it. So they will tip-toe around the fact by saying they are looking forward to creating new categories, and that this "andromeda" isn't supposed to compete with smartphones, when the truth is that everything they are doing, from UWP to Onecore to Windows Core OS to Cshell to Windows on ARM is to make their pitch more convincing for Smartphones platform because Microsoft like it or not, knows Smartphones are the most dominant computing devices on planet and are no where near being taken over by a new category. And no, a pocket able foldable tablet windows PC with telephony capabilities is still trying to be a smartphone whatever you say about it. And any future new category will make way through smartphones just like smartphones were based of off PCs (that's why we categorize them as computing devices). AR, VR, MR, 3D computing, Cloud Computing, Holographic Computing, AI computing, anything will have smartphones at the junction of it. Why, because the are the most dominant computing devices. The sooner Microsoft execs admit this fact to themselves, to the world that this category is indeed important for their future plans, the better for the company. That way they can proceed with more grit and perseverance and not give up at the first sign of loss.
  • As such what should their Andromeda device encompass?
    First things first. It needs to be a pocket able standalone device. I always thought what was wrong with the phone continuum technology was that it assumed people would have the necessary accessories, will be willing to invest in the necessary accessories while the truth was that it was either too expensive to invest in continuum accessories on top of a premium smartphone, but second most important reason was that USB C was just kicking off and finding right USB C hub accessories these days is still a rarity. A bit of shout out to Apple and other OEMs though who are all going in on USB C and making life easier for dongle oriented technologies like phone continuum and consumers who unwittingly bought into these hardwares and technologies. But most importantly, the technology ignored one most fundamental principle of smartphones: Pocket able, stand alone mobilty. If you have to carry dongles, secondary screens, HDMI cables in your bags on top of investing in them separately, or have to make sure that where ever you are moving has at least a big screen already installed, then, this technology is no better than traditional PCs and laptops, while unable to compete with what smartphones has to offer in app ecosystem as well. Thus it is easy to see why the idea while being ambitious ended up being a flop. Enter Andromeda. A hardware pocket able PC with "telephony" that can expand on its own. No need carrying secondary screens, dongles, HDMI cables, and hoping your hotel room has an LED which you can use to expand your phone's capabilities during trips.
    Amazingly, this is also solves Microsoft's ecosystem problems to some extent. As in you can replace apps with web. But why didn't Microsoft benefit from web on phones in the first place you may ask. Because mobile web is inherently bad. While PC web just works and most importantly also on Microsoft's technologies. While PWA's may bring a ray of hope for Microsoft's ecosystem but it still has a way to go. Traditional Web can rescue Microsoft in the meantime. Social network sites like facebook, Twitter, Internet Banking Sites, E commerce Sites, Streaming Services sites just work on Microsoft's technologies in PC web and work just as well with touch input. But I said extent because this comes with a caveat. Not every popular service today is web oriented. Particularly the younger ones. Ones like Snapchat, Uber, Careem, Whatsapp other's etc. And in one analysis, it was revealed Snapchat is the most used social network in USA. Not to mention many e - commerce services these days are offering incentives on using their apps instead of web. So there is that. So Microsoft will have to keep a close eye on this stuff.
  • Now that the ecosystem concerns are out of the way, the question is how Microsoft is gonna position this device. And pen and inking device seems like a short sighted vision to me. Don't get me wrong, I love pen and inking and being a traditionalist, I want every device come bundled with digital pen and was very saddened when Microsoft chose not to include it with recent generation of Surface devices. It is true however that they might be of little use in everyday scenario. (More on that below.) I bring it because this encompasses a conundrum. I find full web to render and work better on PC and yet I am not comfortable with touch keyboard interaction with it in its current form. I have some more feedback regarding its customization and malleability but more on that in feedback hub.
    So do I want it to focus on pen and inking? Sure. But mostly because I'm a traditionalist. In fact I want such a device to focus on so much more. I want it to have stand alone MR capabilities. Add all the sensor tech from Hololens, Kinect, Windows MR headsets required for inside out out tracking, spatial mapping, spatial audio everything in it. Give it the hardware prowess to render mixed reality and 3D computing on your tablet form factor. Give it the AI prowess and processing in neural networks, machine learning etc for MR, for AI. Speaking of AI, give it HDR mics for listening and recording, far field communication, a faster, more intuitive local Cortana capable of image/people recognition, voice/music recognition etc. Build on top of these technologies to have a stellar front and rear facing cameras rivalling that of LG V30 and Google Pixel 2 in photography and filming departments. Because consumers love it, media loves it, millennials love it everyone loves it to have a pocket point and shoot as good as any.
    And lastly, but not the least, the display curve/fold has to be seamless and more importantly continuous. Because separate hinged dual screens have been done in the past, by sony as recently as 2010 and ZTE quite literally a few days ago and nope, it doesn't work. A true foldable device has to do better than that.
    But despite everything Microsoft may be able to do with such a device, the truth is Microsoft's execs will have to show grit towards this category, will have to persevere just like they did with original Surface. Because whatever they do, competition will do better at it by virtue of their head start in some of those technologies, this pocket able stand alone form factor we call smartphones and even by just sheer numbers that they possess.
    Your move Microsoft.
  • I recently bought a refurbished HP elite X2 at half the price. The reason being it came bundled with both the Active Pen and detachable keyboard. And what do you know, the pen isn't in use after the initial honeymoon phase worn off, while the detachable keyboard has been in use every single day. It's not for the trackpad since touch works just fine with Windows. Even with win32 file explorer, programs web etc. But for typing. Because touch typing on tablets, bigger form factors is still something to be desired. I type perfectly fine on touch keyboard on my phone. I find the form factor most ergonomic for touch typing. Alas, not the tablet form factor. The split keyboard was too weird for me and i gave up trying to get accustomed to it. While the full touch keyboard was well too full. I have yet to try the newer smaller shape writing one in fall creator's update though. I bring it because this encompasses a conundrum. I find full web to render and work better on PC and yet I am not comfortable with touch keyboard interaction with it in its current form. I have some more feedback regarding its customization and malleability but more on that in feedback hub.
  • It'll probably be killed off, like the Band, Mobile, Kinect and Groove.
  • It certainly will if it is as bad a product as those were.
  • Good lord Microsoft! NO one wants another device in their pocket.  I have a phone, and that is IT.  I'm not going to carry around a phone and somekind of foldable device in my pocket.
  • If they could manage to get the next step in e-ink screens that would be utterly awesome. E-ink on 8+ inch screens is really expensive with current technologies, but reads so much easier than those backlit flashlights everyone puts in front of their faces. If they manage some kind of OLED + E-Ink combo (fast UI on OLED, easy reading/taking notes on E-Ink) that would be utterly awesome and finally bridge the gap between note taking on paper and typing on a screen. E-Ink tends to be a bit slow though, so UI/UX work is a real challenge to get right. Unless they create killer hardware :)
  • Ok, interesting. Don't know about taking notes with a pen. I'm using Cortana with voice commands, no way i'm gonna ink. But some people will, i guess.
    Whether they make it more useful, practical and efficient than high end phones will ultimately determine its fate.
    Frendly advice: tell them to forget about "this isn't for your average consumer" stuff. It doesn't cut it. Not anymore. People use their favorite drivers, be they suits in the large companies or kids in schools. I've seen it first hand in a several thousand strong int'l IT company. It's iphones, galaxies and a few w10s. Byod all the way. Literally, nobody gives a *** about "enterprise stuff". People use devices they love.
    Don't wanna spoil the party for the MS, just be advised: if you plan to put smth in the people's pockets, oh boy, it'll be compared against the iphone or galaxy whether you like it or not. When that happens, you'd better be ready cause all your categories will matter little.
  • I'm pretty mcuh done with MS on the consumer side, Xbox and desktop PC is it and that may dwindle over time. WM10 getting nuked casued me to go android on phone and then adnroid on tablet, I retied my Surface 3. Surface Phone could be amazing but with a crap app store it will be pretty useless. MS screwed up everything and they can't fix it and in 5 years will be an irevleent company for end users.
  • Don't worry guys. If it is any good Nadella is going to kill it. He is only going to release it if he is sure nobody is going to ever use it. Like Skype Bots.
  • I moved to Android couple of months ago and I already can't wait for Microsoft to release some mobile device. I just can't believe 7 billion people only need two mobile OS's.
  • The only chance that Microsoft has with this kind of form factor now that UWP has failed is to strike a deal with Google to bring the Play Store to Windows. This could be a Win Win for both parties. Google could profit from getting some more eye balls looking at and downloading play store apps, Microsoft could port UWP to Android and pretty much kill their Windows App Store! The money Microsoft would save they could use to throw at Google.
  • bring it on 😀 
  • Yes, if it is pocketeble, has pen support and telephony. Hope this is not just yet another experiment
  • This thing would be interesting as the unique competitor of galaxy note, especially if it had a wider full screen. A hybrid concept that incorporates smartphones is undoubtedly a good idea, as well as the powerful message "windows 10(S) in your pocket". What should be clear is that the platform would have to support it completely though. The only way for MS mobile success is to integrate it in a wider solid context. I understand that Microsoft could not fight all the battles together: first build a reliable and immersive windows 10 experience, along with holograms, then try to extend that possible success to the mobile world. I mean, there might be one important shoot now and it needs a platform as strong as possible to go on target. What I wonder most is again why retrenching so much in mobile, making developers even more unconfident. They should have kept the existing share until their next innovation. I hope they will fill the gap because otherwise it will get bigger.
  • Will wait and see what happens. Currently don't trust a word coming from anyone at MS. I'm fully expecting the project to be cancelled.
  • Test
  • Windows 10 on ARM + CShell + Windows Core OS + Surface high quality = New Cat Device = Surface Mobile
  • @Mani, Nope...Just a phone that Microsoft designed....thats all.
  • I use my Surface as my notebook in college and powered by OneNote is simply wonderful. However the experience is not 100% handy. Maybe a smaller device would be more useful. But this is just me, to create a entirely market around that idea is another story.
  • Sounds interesting, I will believe it when I see it, till then I will be cynically propitious.
  • The aim of this device is to replace a smartphone correct? This is something interesting if ut can make Vo IP calls through Whatsapp now, the only question is if it can make Vo IP calls when you're driving home. 
  • The phamtom courier is so beloved by MS fanboys...the product would have failed so fast and hard out in the real world. People freaked out and panicked because the start button went missing in Windows 8 and MS fanboys expect everyone to pick up these whacking swipe gestures UI like its inate to them.
  • I will never buy a Microsoft hardware device (except for Xbox) again. Why invest in something that will be unsupported in 18 months?
  • As long as it ain't an Apple or Android device, does telephony and apps, that's all that matters. Bring it!
  • Microsoft, don't bother; it's really just a waste of everyone's time.
  • Surface Notebook
  • This is similiar to all those Microsoft concept videos that showed a person using a future device. Without phone capability, I don't see this going anywhere, but with it perhaps it has a chance. Throw in the capability to load apps from any Android developer and they might have a chance.
  • How quickly some of you forget about these concept videos? Remember the phone in this video? Look familiar? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozLaklIFWUI
  • Some may have forgotten iseeisheep, but we haven't😉Read: Did Microsoft give us a glimpse of its Surface phone vision:
    https://m.windowscentral.com/did-microsoft-tease-its-surface-phone-vision A year ago we used that video along with other analysis to paint 🎨 this picture of Microsoft's potential device😉.
  • Some time in 2018, maybe. That's the problem right there. Who in their right mind will wait for that thing? I am still a Windows fan and will not anything other than Win10 on my PC, laptop or tablet. I work with the Surface Book, have a SP3, both of them fully loaded.  My work phone is still the Elite x3, but my other work phone for my side business is now an iPhone after my 950 died and MSFT told me that Win10 mobile is done. Would I buy a foldable device that allows me to get light work done on the go without having to bring a larger device AND let's me send texts and make phone calls? Sure. Would I try to dock it and replace my laptop? Yeah, NO! I thought the Elite x3 would do that with Continuum and it was miserable.  What I will NOT do though, is to wait around for another year or more until MSFT finally gets this foldable device done. The time to bring it is now. With visible, massive support for it. Waiting for just another half baked attempt to be significant in mobile with the big chance that it ends just like Win10 Mobile? Not gonna happen.
  • <p>I&#39;ve wanted to see a device that replaces my physical journal/notebook so their contents can be synced over the Internet to my PC and phone.</p> <p>Right now the calendar/note apps on a phone isn&#39;t as fast and intuitive as the physical one while the physical ones does not have sync capabilities.</p> <p>To compete with journal and notebook in paper, Android, and iOS devices at the same time, OneNote and Calendar apps will need a great redesign, maybe back to somewhat skewmorphemic design for intuitive user experience.</p> <p>What I imagine is a calendar app where week or month view pages can be flipped to go to the previous /next week or month, and a note app which has category tabs on the side and where pages can be flipped</p>
  • This... thing... needs to be aimed at students in addition to corporate. Microsoft is heading into a generation of new workers who have been utterly rejected by Microsoft as consumers. These people will be utilising technology, and making decisions, in a corporate environment and they will tend to stick with what they know.
  • Good Luck advertising this device to a student...
  • This is how MS will attract Apple Newton's users.
  • I'm sold....if they can work a keyboard in there somewhere.
  • Panos, please make it happen.  I have been waiting for this since seeing the concept
  • I want a keyboard as well....
  • If it can't replace my laptop, I don't want it.  I still want that ONE device that can handle all of my computing.
  • If such a device is released, is the size of a current smart phone when folded, can do telephony, and arrives in 2018, I would be inclined to purchase it. 
  • Microsoft may very well be reading your comments ...
    I really hope not. This comment section is not representative of the people who would use this. And
    A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them.
    The Courier was, and still is, miles ahead of the competition. Tech has, in many ways, been going down the wrong path the last few years. So far from Apples vision when they first launched the iPhone. It makes us feel better and more productive, short term, but does not enrich our lives long term. The Courier concept was adapted to a specific set of peoples lives. Not the other way around, as so often is the case. If Microsoft chooses to build upon these concepts, I just hope they are not too late.
  • Everyone forgets Cshell in an instant though, but if people remember the technical details, Cshell was made for this purpose and now we have a flexible UI that will adept according to the form factor its displayed on, this was pretty much designed to make Windows productive in small form factors, naysayers can continue to complain(for obvious reasons of fear or brand hate) but when the product hits the market with this feature, it will be one of the most adaptive UI's of all time and change what Windows look and feels like overall.
  • ..that we wanted? Are you joking? This foldable device will be DOA because it runs the same mediocre windows 10 with a sort of modified shell, it has no MOBILE APPS that are touch optimized, and it has a pathetic ecosystem backig it up, not to mention MS and Nadella that cannot be trusted. Of course some fanboys will buy it, like they did with that overpriced junk X3 and then complain when MS kills it. Does not matter what MS calls it, without a proper ecosystem, apps meaning also dev support, and confidence in it's maker, it's a waste of money and time. 
  • Make everyone happy, and call it Surface Lumia 🤣 But aside from joking, this thing sounds exciting as hell. I hope it comes to market before December 2018, so it could be a replacement for my beloved Lumia 650. And my Lenovo Miix 310 as well 😁
  • Microsoft is finally making a practical device. Once it becomes useless you will fold it and trash it just like any other garbage.
  • I like the name Surface Journal. It's reaaaally sleek. (But I also see how they call it just "Surface"). The Note name is too cliche, and while I see that it can be good and an established name for such kind of devices, I think Journal is super sleek and stylish. Bring it on MS. (but please Intel Inside and Win32 in continuum mode) Also, please no Book-like gap. Make it as thin and sleek as the iPhone if possible
  • If it runs full Edge for desktop and supports google docs and desktop youtube then it would be a good upgrade from my Lumia 950.. maybe
  • As said, the push towards banning electronic devices larger than phone on airplanes will continue in the coming years. Business travellers and recreational one included will need to figure out alternative ways to get their computing done. Either this is going to happen with rental market developing to cover those needs or by one single all-can-do miracle machine. The latter could be a Microsoft mobile device with continuum, but it looks likely that it is going to be iPhone and Samsung... https://forums.windowscentral.com/windows-10-mobile/467079-plans-ban-all... This week alone , I have filled 15 pages of notebook by hand and then typed them clean for client reports, as it is way more comfortable to take notes at meetings writing by hand, drawing and shortcutting than by laptop or tablet typing. If I could have my handwriting turned into typed text (and even if not, but that I wouldn\t have to carry notebook, laptop and phone with me), if it had a camera at par with 950XL or better (I don't want two phone sized things with me) I would be tempted to leave my Yoga pro and phone for good.
  • I too prefer writing in a notebook at meetings. It keeps me more focused than a laptop where I can check my mail etc. There are solutions like Livescribe and the Moleskin smart pen that turns your notebook handwriting into digital text. You'd still have to carry your phone, though. A courier-style device from Microsoft may just be a dream come true for meetings.
  • I would love to buy this but I query why this is popping up now. The concept is nearly ten years old and for some reason it's come back to like. Anyways, I would definitely use it instead of my Lenovo Yoga Book and would definitely use it as a mobile device if it was half the size and dual screen. I don't know if the tech is up to this yet, even ten years later.
  • Technologically the application of this concept is more practical now. With Window Ink, OneCore, the Core OS and more, it makes more sense than what was possible ten years ago.: These pieces goes into some detail: Is the rumored Surface phone a reimagined Surface Mini
    https://twitter.com/JLTechWord/status/807288865853677568 I explain to some extent in these three pieces as well. Is a 7" Surface Mini phablet on the horizon Is the Surface Phone a reimagined Surface Mini Seeing Microsoft's mobile strategy requires big-picture perspective
    https://twitter.com/JLTechWord/status/923640398874062850 And this piece about a note taking tablet from a few,weeks ago also gives some useful perspective: Why a pen-focused cellular Surface Mini tablet would be awesome
    https://m.windowscentral.com/2017-surface-mini-cellular-pc-core-os-windo...
  • thats not going to happen @marius Vatasoiu.   the fanboys here are as childish as they come.  
  • I hope it will be also "camera centric", also "AR centric". Additional "gears" is a must too, lately microsoft killed a lot of devices, with some still having safe future(like band), I miss 360, action cameras too. People are dissatistied with microsoft, but not lumias/w10m, at least not everyone. As example more than half of my family's devices are nokia/lumia, old but working, unique.  I'm happy to hear they do something, but note they are not alone in planned 2018 foldable mobile space. I also hope they go more global with their products, also they wont stop at surfaces, but bring next gen AR devices(not just hololens) hard, because thats tomorrow tech.
  • I thought this site has integrity. Any fair criticism of MS in the comment section gets removed, I wish you the best of luck because this tactic is going to make you more irrelevant to our eyes.  Other readers be awared.
  • So long as it comes with a commitment NOT to retrench as soon as Nadella gets distracted by something new and shiny then I'm in. I'll be needing a replacement for my 950XL in early 2019, so this Windows phone, but not a phone, but is a phone really device (gotta work on that name, possibly my suggestion isn't the most snappy...) is my only decent choice. I'd love a pocketable telephone capable inking based tablet with Windows. If it has basic mixed reality capability (60hz stuff) then even better.
  • Don't get excited people. Let's not get amnesia
  • The way windows 10 is now no. I don't think rs3 and current rs4 roadmaps are not good enough UI's and UX'es for the courier/foldable tablet device. For me windows 10 needs a better UI that is more tablet center, prefereably a fit and finished tablet mode. Windows 10 is too desktopcentric. I don't see myself use this device with a windows 10 desktop UI. It needs to be catered visually with a more touch and pen input friendly UI first to be used properly in day to day use cases. But tablet mode in its current form, I think, is not good enough for this is still pretty much half baked, and there are many achievable improvements in tablet mode that could help improve that UI better and be a better experience for this device. I already notice that with my surface pro devices.
    If microsoft can pull off more time and resources to really update the tablet mode UI experience of the OS and apps, that would be a huge improvement in the right direction.
  • Who cares about this Device? I just want What microsoft can do . Which is  a Software ... A mind blowing OS for phone.. where some interested compaines will make phone Microsoft is a software company... but it couldn't even do that.. Microsoft is clearly lost its path.. why they r so obessed with Category creating Device. thing.. ? Even if u create.. if your software sucks then its damned to fail.. every IT guys knows this. Praying for Microsoft to find their lost wits... Amen
  • I personally think it is doable - why? They have all the pieces and now the software with Windows 10 on ARM - they could easily dig up the courier project files and "adapt" them to modern day "standards". Sure, I'm over simplifying the entire process of design and iteration. I hope they are able to include the technology from Tactus... that along with a foldable screen will be a GAME CHANGER. It has so many applications... especially for people who are partial sighted or blind... the former will become a common problem as optical astigmatisim will become common place due to prolonged uses of VR headsets. Would I buy that product, absolutely but they MUST support it 100% over their competitors platforms otherwise nope. I will not buy another Microsoft product until I am convinced they will not pull another stunt like they did with Mobile. I just do not trust Microsoft as they have shown zero concern for their own enterprise partners as well - since the device is to be targeted towards the Enterprise. So TLDR. If Microsoft is 100% behind the product then I will buy it however to convice me as a potential enterprise customer they will have to focus on their own UWP platform over their competitors. Otherwise I will take direction that will only focus on free and open source solutions and my L930 will become my last Windows based purchase.
  • I think this would be a great device for a student especially if it had audio recording for classes.  Easy to do research and compile documents.  Inking for notes.  I would buy it for my children for sure.
  • Well nobody is mentioning that one reason of being windows mobile dead is of some OS feature itself, apart from app gap and poor effort of Microsoft will towards windows mobile. The whole Desktop is filled with big tile with some info flying in and out. Best I can think of live tiles, means lilterlay who is using live tiles. Even on Desktop who is using this. Microsoft came up with a lot of concepts like chaseable live tiles and all still it is of no use. But I still don't know where is the concept of Interactive live tiles which was supposed to iterate over to make it more meaningful and productive. Same going with app developers Microsoft itself won't support platform how developers will trust and invest their time and money on it. No one knows when Microsoft will pull support or stop working on from one platform which you are working on. Example if someone starts developing hololens app (native) and out of nowhere you heard news they are shutting that in favor of something(just an example i used as hololens).
  • {Yawn}... Before they pull this out again and laugh at us for wanting it...f**k them!
  • I admit my use scenario is niche, but I would love this device.  I don't use my smartphone for things like games, or loyalty clubs but rather O365 work, Messaging, Social Media and light A/V capture (all things my 950 still excel at).  If you could have that, Continuum (through the evolution of CShell), and inking on a larger screen I would consider it worthwhile.  I can run digital classes off my 950, but can't ink when needed (essential in teaching Chemistry IMO) and inking on the size of even an S8 isn't really fine grain enough for my needs, but something about the size of an iPad Mini would work well.  The seam doesn't even bother me (if it is two screens) you quickly work around that when it happens on physical boards, I assume you would on a screen too.
  • I think a small ink foucsed device would be killer! I love inking on Windows and I think it is a big differentiator for Windows. I made an app (Ink Calendar https://www.microsoft.com/store/apps/9PGPBWM9NFZC) for Windows because the pen & ink experience is unique and awesome! I'm pumped for the possiblility of a Surface Mini like device!
  • I would upgrade from my hp elite x3 to such a device should it come to market, sounds very exciting 
  • Folks this is a good time for Microsoft to introduce a Surface 2 screen mini Tablet Cell phone hybrid because people had bought many Surface Pro Tablets, Surface Books and the new Surface Laptop PC. the Windows 10 new "Microsoft Store inside them" is getting NEW apps from Developers amd Businesses because the Surface devices are popular and used by Many WORLD WIDE. a Surface Mini Tablet running "Windows 10 on ARM can run Win 32 Desktop PC Programs and ALL the Apps in the Windows 10 Microsoft Store so such a device would come to the market palce with a HUGE NUMBER OF PC WIN32  PROGRAMS AND WINDOWS 10 STORE APPS FOR THE OWNER OF SUCH A DEVICE TO ACCESS AND USE.  
  • "In the meantime, does the sound of a foldable, digital notebook with telephony capabilities running Windows 10 entice you?" Absolutely! I would argue this is my dream device for productivity. And up until now, I have never had a dream device.
  • Right time now...
    This is the perfect time to launch the note with 4G connection. I would love to see it in action. There no no device at this moment which fills the gap between mobile and laptop.
  • Surface Duo Pre-Orders are now live!