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Microsoft quietly kills their 3D Touch Windows Phone codenamed 'McLaren'

Starting this fall, Microsoft was poised to release a new high-end Windows Phone featuring their new gesture technology dubbed 3D Touch. The project originally went by the name 'Goldfinger' but later moved to the prototype device stage under the moniker 'McLaren'. It was to be released on at least three US carriers simultaneously in addition to wider availability.

Windows Phone Central has confirmed with multiple sources familiar with the matter that Microsoft is completely canceling McLaren. In effect, this leaves Microsoft in a potentially vulnerable position this fall as the hardware and services company does not have any flagship Windows Phones, to our knowledge, in the pipeline.

Although the timing of this report coincides with the recent layoffs and reorganization plans at Microsoft, the decision to cancel McLaren was made within the last few weeks, prior to yesterday's news. The reasons for canceling McLaren range from cost to Microsoft being unable to move beyond the proposal stage for interactive usages with the technology. The news of the cancellation is so recent that current GDR2 roadmaps still show McLaren and 3D Touch slated for later this year.

3D Touch and Mixview

McLaren, along with Windows Phone 8.1 Update 2, was supposed to be the launch device for Microsoft's new 3D Touch technology. Although how McLaren's sensors worked is a bit of a mystery (they were not cameras), the technology had been in the works for as early as November last year as reported by the Verge. Aspects of McLaren likely came from Microsoft's work on Kinect. It was hardware issues that delayed the release of McLaren, with Microsoft missing the spring 2014 launch with Windows Phone 8.1.

The APIs for the technology – including Hover, Mixview, and 3D Touch – were present in the current Windows Phone 8.1 SDK, though hidden from the public. Instead, a program extension downloaded from Microsoft was needed to make the "Hover events" visible. Additionally, there is a Nokia 3D Touch SDK for documentation.

Developers used the 3D Touch tools with early access to cultivate and test apps with the new technology starting earlier in May. In effect, Microsoft was fielding ideas from developers on how best to use these gestures. Microsoft provided proposals, but they wanted to see what developers would do with it. Unfortunately, that program concluded a few weeks ago with little success.

One of the more rousing aspects of Microsoft's 3D Touch is Mixview, which bore a striking resemblance to a UI element from the Zune software years ago (seen above). We reported on Mixview back in June, revealing details of how it worked. In summary, Mixview enables a single Tile to "explode" into numerous mini Tiles, each with a designated function. The trigger for Mixview is holding your finger over a Tile and then pressing down, in the air, hence the 3D Touch nomenclature.

A real world example of Mixview could be for the Facebook Tile, which could "explode" and reveal a user's latest messages, photos, posts, and more. The smaller tiles were deep links to already existing areas within the app, and they were open to developers to use how they wished. Whereas a single Live Tile could have two sides, Mixview tiles could have up to eight.

Additional 3D Touch gestures included swipes, side taps, and even using heatmap data.

More than a gimmick?

Although the idea of using touchless "3D" gestures to interact with a smartphone is enticing, the question of whether it is more than a gimmick constantly hounded the development process. Companies, including Samsung, had explored touchless gesture technology before but never to the level in which Microsoft took it. However, it seems that Microsoft was unable to move the project further to guarantee a consistent, workable, and usable consumer experience.

Interestingly, Microsoft and touchless gestures go back to 2008, meaning none of this is particularly new. However, this was the first time that Microsoft took the project all the way to the prototype phase, including making tentative deals with carriers to launch the phone this November. In fact, Nokia had initiated some advances in this area, including their "peek" function for Glance, which lets users turn on the display clock by hovering their hand over the display.

All of this is not to say that Microsoft has given up on 3D Touch as the company is still actively researching the technology. Nevertheless, these touchless gestures are evidently not ready for developers or consumers, and Microsoft is holding back until they feel the innovation is more than just a novelty.

Additionally, Windows Phone has recently seen much more success at the entry level price range rather than high-end, so it remains to be seen if this decision damages further Windows Phone adoption by the public.

Combined with the recent Kinect setbacks with the Xbox One, it is clear that the public – or perhaps the technology itself – is not quite yet ready for mass adoption. Microsoft has learned some hard lessons over Kinect as the state-of-the-art accessory has not exactly caused a revolution in game interaction.

Although McLaren is dead in the water for now, the thinking lives on and may see another day in future handsets. Indeed, reports of future flagship Windows Phones for later this fall still persist.

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Reader comments

Microsoft quietly kills their 3D Touch Windows Phone codenamed 'McLaren'

1060 Comments

They probably thought it wouldn't sell maybe and they want to allocate the money to somewhere else or they fired the dev team. Either way, this soldifies me getting a Lumia Icon. 

I agree with you. In the las post about the 3D touch, I stated what have been stated in this article. With consideration of samsung's attempt, I really didnt find this all too exciting as much as I found it to be merely another reason for price inflation. 

But I really didnt see Microsoft releasing the McLaren anytime soon. With the delay of the L930 and their plan to release follow up devices early next year, that would just cause an interference in their sales. 

But for the sake of those who were interested in the 3D touch, I hope Microsoft stays commited to the development of such a device.

Anyway now,I have a better hope to see the +1525 too. Previously it was rumored that it might also have the 3D touch, which meant I would have to come out same time or after the McLaren debuts.

But now, with microsoft droping the McLaren, maybe they might just focus on the new Phablet and release it sooner than later. 

They hadn't even fully optimized their Phablet before jumping into the development of 3D touch, I wonder when they would have fully optimized the 3D touch devices if they were released. I know why Microsoft works with such divided attention. They should focus on one thing and fully develop it before they go wondering about. They are the epitome of a Jack of al trade and master of none (well with the exclusion of the WP 8.1 which I personally consider the best mobile OS out there).

With the rumored release of an iPhablet and the Note 4, Microsoft really need a new release/u grade to stay relevent in the Phablet competition. And even more, provide a much better optimization for the large screen WP devices. 

Well, regardless phablets aren't a good solution to push your phones into the public simply because of their size.  Small hands don't fare well with 5.5-6" screens.  Even the new LG G3 is a bit daunting for single-handed use and I have larger than average hands, and it's one of the better phablet-like handsets I've used so far.

Killing of McLaren is a bad idea.  Suspension would have been better, but if this means there wouldn't be a flagship Lumia product this fall in markets like the US, Microsoft are going to lose the tiny foothold they've struggled so hard to get.  The 930 is a good product, but like it or not Microsoft need to compete in their home market where Android and iPhones run wild.  I want to get a new fast handset because my 1020, while a nice phone, doesn't have the power to run the camera app how it should be run and there are so many sleek options out there these days.  I'm rooting for WP, but Microsoft or a partner better put out something in the US soon that can turn heads or they're going to destroy all that positive press garnered from the 8.1 impressions.

Totally agree with your comment on McLaren. I am starting to doubt MS commitment to the platform itself. Since they acquired NOKIA nothing really positive has come out from MS. I am a 1020 user. As much as i love it, it's long in the tooth & the size of 1520 kept me from getting one. Now if we don't have a flagship that can compete with iPhone 6. I think it's time to start writing the WP obituary by end of 2015. I hope MS shows more commitment & love to their mobile platform & get aggressive with some advertising.

I don't doubt their committment to the platform.  The 930 is an excellent device but isn't carried by any US service providers and seems to be pretty scarce overall in North America at the moment.  That handset is a step in the right direction.  It has a good camera, large screen with high detail (1080p), quad-core CPU, aluminum edges, isn't heavy and carries a decent battery.  If Microsoft can drive that design a little bit further they'll have a winner.  Plus Windows Phone 8.1 and its updates are a strong indicator that Microsoft is pushing to bring their software to parity with competing platforms, which is more important than the best hardware.

We could luck out and see LG, Sony, Samsung or HTC drop excellent handsets later this year but the lack of news is discouraging for the platform as the mob is fickle and can lose interest with the slew of handsets and updates coming out for Android and the new iPhone coming up sometime before the end of 2014.

I am hoping Sony to make one. That would be nice. Icon on Verizon. Wonder when that will show up on AT&T. I would jump at it. As much as I love 1520, it's too big for me.

Also since they dumped Asha line & X phone, I hope they will be laser focused on Lumia promote the brand as Lumia.

Getting sick of this. They should have pushed hard from the very beginning by making sure all the carriers had a variety of WP devices no matter how much it costed them. They have the cash for it. They should have pushed hard with posters and banners and devices all over the place. Instead, they've fixed it to where WP is a niche product.

Yes, the mob is fickle, I sold my 1520 because they never could fix the touch problem. Bought a G3, doubt I will look back unless they FINALLY come out with something that works and is in the 5-5.5" range. I don't think we will see any manufacturers release WP phones, I think MS is flying solo on this and has no clue as to what to do.

Guess you have been out of touch. At least half a dozen OEM's have announced they are releasing WP phones. A few of them are already in the market and a few more in a month or so.

wow, stop whining about MS not doing anything, they have had control of Nokia for like 3 months or so, it takes a long time to get everything up to speed, they are not making red lolipops here, there are other high end devices coming this year, dont worry.

Then why did they bother buying Nokia, with all those headaches, and not be committed? Then again, this is MS were talking about here.

Firstly, Microsoft hasnt given up on the 3D touch. The article clearly stated: 

     All of this is not to say that Microsoft has given up on 3D Touch as the            company is still actively researching the technology.

And secondly, it also stated there will be other flagship phones this fall. 

And lastly, wether you and "some people" like it or not, Phablet is rapidly growing, and Microsoft need to put in more work to optimize its phablets. And that doesnt mean they should ignore other phones. 

Samsung didnt ignore their other phones when it released the note, and i doubt apple will when they release their iPhablet.

Don't think anyone said anything about Microsoft killing 3D touch in this line of comments.  Phablets are growing because they didn't exist before.  It's easy for a product to grow when they didn't exist previously.  They will continue to grow, but don't expect any explosions for consumers.  Phablets seem to cater more toward business demographics.  That's not to say that consumers can't get just as much out of them, but having worked plenty with mobiles and getting feedback from consumers across all the major platforms, the convenience of having a device that can easily fit into a pocket still holds greater value than a near-tablet.

When I say concentrate on Phablets, I dont mean throwaway all other phones.
But compared to other companies, windows phones is still far behind when it comes to optimization for their phablets, and they really need to put more resources into that before they talk of another range of phones (3D touch where they would need to optimize again.

I thought the same about phablets until I got a1520. But of course this not my only phone either. I use the m8 half the time and 1520 the other half.

Posted via Windows Phone Central App

I was just like you, M8 and 1520, but the 1520 had too many issues to be a daily driver, now it's just G3 for me even though I still have the M8. Part of the problem too is that those 2 devices used the Nano sim and the G3 uses Micro, tired of switching.

So don't buy one and quit complaining sweetness. millions of people are buying phablets around the world.
phablets are just plain useful crying about them is just plain ridiculous

How is my 1520 stupid, and worthless?... It works the same as your phone, except it has a bigger screen....
...........
It's closed minded, prehistoric thinking consumers like you that are the reason MS had to cancel McLaren...

+1.. And it kind of makes sense given that Windows RT and Windows Phone OSes are going to merge and work based on the device size. So a flagship phone around the time of the next big release called "Threshold" with this new OS baked in would make perfect sense. No point in building the 3D touch on a OS that will retire soon. And as Tom Warren stated, Microsoft has not killed off 3D Touch for Windows Phone, but it has killed off the McLaren device. There will be other high-end phones soon and it may not be during the holiday season as Threshold is not due then so just keep pushing 930 and 1520 till Spring when Win7, Win8, WP8 etc will all merge to Win9. Looking forward to Spring 2015!

They may also be trying to avoid a Lumia 900 situation. If Threshold doesn't support current Windows Phones then releasing a new flagship right before wouldn't be the right choice.

Sigh. Well, we'll just have to wait to see this arrive on other flagship devices running Android an maybe even IOS, and then we can get about whining again on how Microsoft could have been first with something new and original again, but AGAIN missed the boat on implementation.

"yeah, but they though of it first!"

"Oh? What Windows Phone/Windows RT has this feature then?"

 

Microsoft; always having bright ideas and giving them away for free to the competition. Maybe they should lay off some of the people who come up with these ideas too. Might help the platform 'evolve' some more. Until there is nothing left that is.

@2tomtom 110% agree with you. Can you imagine being sat on public transport with loads of people looking like they are conducting an orchestra. Still, the flappy bird man could make a ferociously addictive scissors paper stone game lol

LOL conducting an orchestra :D

I have asked S5 owners if they use hover etc on a daily basis. All have said no, if that means anything.

930 is just a minaturised 1520 lacking features. Outdated and not a flagship. Microsoft have until November to impress me with a non phablet flagship, or ill just go back to iPhone. I was very odd Microsoft buying Nokia as they were there only company making windows phone worth owning. Looks like I had good reasoning.

I dont know what you mean by "Outdated and not a flagship".

Can you name some features that other manufacturers flagship have that the L930 doesnt?

Start with the S5 and M8.

wow again, what are you guys thinking, it takes a month to make a phone and reorganise a complete company???? stop with the whining already, new high end devices are coming, just not the gimmicky 3d touch stuff which really not ready for primetime right now.

UK resident. Got the phone, wireless charger and speaker. Cost me £9.99 and continuation of contract. But, if a must have WP device appears next year my 920 and 930 will be sold :D

I know others here want more but this is perfect for me ❤

On EE and sent from my 930 :D

They should have it in stock now, noticed comments on WP Central over the last few days that people had received their 930s.

I keep reading these comments here and all over the internet, I bailed already, but if true, it's all over for whatever fanbase MS acquired, too many promises and not enough deliveries.

Combined the three below - 
-- McLaren has been shelved 
-- No signs that 930 is coming to US (although Lumia Icon is essentially Verizon exclusive version of it)
-- Verizon launched a new ALLSET prepaid plan with LTE 

I am switching to Lumia Icon and Verizon - no question anymore.

In some foreign countries $700 phones do sell well, but contracts allow the playing field to be more even price wise, so when people buy phones they buy into ecosystems, Windows is an alternate ecosystem and not everyone wants to buy into it when they are used to the usual Android and iOS stuff.

Because none of their previous flagships sold and if it is running Windows Phone 8.1 it won't be any different. Why are people suddenly going to buy a device when they haven't even given them the time of day for 4 years?

It can be a target for other OSes flagships. MS may lure S5 and iphone owners to new WP flagships. There is a very big market outher for flagships. They're just not for MS as MS has nothing to impress *yet*

News like this and lack of true high-end support from 3rd party makes it seem MS is racing to the bottom with affordable hardware, conceding high-end to Apple and Android. The Happy-Meal strategy.

Microsoft may double down on software and 3rd party home stuff. We don't know. All I know is they have a couple phones out on every carrier that you can get, so there is still choice in devices and seeing how light and less intensive WP is, I have to say the 801 processor and 3GB or RAM would have done little in performance against a 800 and 2GB of RAM.

You mentioned they have couple of phones out on every carrier that one can get. We are talking highend phones here because the subject matter is about Mclaren.

I am with T-Mobile on JUMP program and have Lumia 925 almost 9 months ago, JUMP alows you to change phones every 6 months, Well L925 is the only high end phone T-Mobile has and have since been unable to change it to anything, When I read about McLaren for all carriers, that news made me happy for a change, now there will not ba any McLaren and L925 is still the only high end WP that stupid  T-Mobile has. I am realy pissed off with both Microsoft and T-Mo, IMO; right now both of them are bunch of Nincompoops.

Well, for T-Mobile you may have to sit tight. Is your phone performing so badly you can't stand anymore? Or do you want to upgrade just for the hell of it?

Posted via Windows Phone Central App

Kindly read my prior reply well and the reason I gave are all there. It clearly states that I joined the JUMP program meaning in addition to paying full price for the phone, I am paying $10 per month extra that allows me to change phones every 6 months withing that 24 months period. I also stated above that I have now had my first phone (L925) on this JUMP program for the last 9 months since I joind JUMP(meaning I have not been able able to JUMP to anything WP). Now I could have JUMP to Android high end or iPhone, but I am a WP big time fan who in my opinion is been screwed right now by both Microsft and T-Mobile based on the news that you and I are commenting on.

I can only hope you get what I am alluding to. Which is that I opted for faster WP high end refresh rate and paid and still paying for through the said program that is not forth coming. As such, your statements; Is my L925 performing so badly; or can't I wait; or do I just want to upgade for upgrade sake are not fair, justified or even correllated to my situation that I clearly painted on my very firat response.

All the 3 major carriers have this type of program in one form or another, while this program type was pioneered by TMO, they are the only one not making WP flagship or high end device available and MSFT just made it worse by cancelling McLaren (Allegedly, by cirturee of this article i question) which is my plight and my beef.

Yeah,, T-Mobile called Nokia and forced them to make the 1520 and 1020 AT&T exclusives.  They're also the reason the ICON is a Verizon exclusive.  Releasing those three phones on every carrier was Microsofts/Nokias chance to gain market share and they blew it. The market is getting so saturated now that they may not get another chance in the high-end market.     

You can buy an unlocked 1520.3 or an unlocked 1020 but you'd have to pay full price up front.  

With the new CEO at MS and the mass layoffs at Nokia I'm not confident in the future of Windows phone.  I was also waiting for a new flagship but I've decided to move on.    

 

You assume the other carriers cared about the 1020 or 1520. You really think Microsoft wouldn't have sold them to every carrier that would take them? AT&T was the only choice they had.

Took the words right out of my mouth. This needs to be resolved. L925 is nice... But I feel like I'm being scammed. TMo probably knows we'll wait. Not fair

With McLaren, YES you are absolutely correct. With WP high End (Exclusivity) Is clearly T-Mo's fault. If you look at the 3 major carriers' WP portfolio, Verizon has quite some list including the new ICON, AT&T is loaded up. For folks like me that un-wittenly chose JUMP program and are WP loyalist, T-Mo screws us up. The reason is, the carrier have to request for exclusivity which T-Mo is not doing. If you look at their only high end that I have (Lumia 925), it is not exclusive because AT&T customers have a piece of that pie also. It realy does not have to be exclusive, T-Mo just seems to not kige a rat ass about high end WP, because if they do, they should be asking for one and that is where I blame them.

I am learning my lesson, I might be better off relying on Amazon for high end WP that works on T-Mo in the future versus me every doing their JUMP programs again. Who knows, MSFT just like they just made 1020 vaialable unlocked on thier store available for T-Mo and AT&T with LTE connection, might make more AT&T high ends available with LTE for T-Mo in the future. As a WP fan, I just feel robbed my TMO with their JUMP program.

Exactly. We also want a high end Lumia because some Cyan features only work on processors with 800 or above. I don't know why people still try to defend t mobile. I have yet to see any real effort from them. Lumia 710, still no 7.8. Lumia 810, still no Black update. Lumia 925, one of the slowest in the world to get the black update, and no longer an exclusive. Lumia 521 (520) and 635 are both on ATT. Basically, ATT just has the same phones as us plus a lot more.

I'm with you. I'm on T-Mobile and the lack of high-end Windows phone sucks. Really if they just offered the 930 I would be happy. My mother who is also on T-Mobile would've switch from Android if she could've gotten a 1020 but alas.

As painful as your input sounds some like me that would have loved faster refresh of WP (every 6 months vs 24 months) and willing to pay that extra $240 for that refesh over 24 months YOU ARE CORRECT, I actually conceeded to that thought process in one of my response threads earlier above.

While its true I am pissed off, I don't plan to run away from WP, and I love my T-Mo picing plans, I do agree that I bet wrong on T-Mo JUMP program when it comes to WP. I just need a different strategy on getting high end windows phones if I still want to stay with T-Mo.

Im in the same situation as u except not in the jump program and want a high end windows phone for t-mobile

Yeah, because this phone not coming out at all is totally T-Mobile's fault. Hope you're enjoying your crappy low data speeds and ridiculously high prices.

I do enjoy my consistent data speeds, speeds I get where T-Mobile is non-existent.  And my bill is lower than it was on T-Mobile. If you consider that ridiculously high, T-Mobile's prices could only be described as ludicrous by you. :)

But despite all that, you miss the point.  I now have the freedom to choose and use almost any WP device I want.  No more carrier envy.  and THAT was liberating.

All be it only 8 mbps capped on your Ghetto Cricket plan!!! LOL... Troll!!!

Remember me from Tmonews? Your worst nightmare!!! You trying to sell Cricket isn't going to work here kid!

AT&FLEE ' S Purchase of Leap is a complete failure!!!

Posted via Windows Phone Central App

+1,000,000!!!

Yup, that person is a complete and utter troll who has nothing better to do than pimp AIO/Cricket/ATT in anything and everything having to do with T-Mobile. Pretty sad, huh?

I get Better phones, better coverage, better prices. You're really missing out.

Your company website could really use some modernization as well.

No, it's YOU who misses the point. Nobody cares about your constant bashing of T-Mobile or your pimping of Cricket every chance you get. You're a bore and a troll, plain and simple. Why don't you do yourself a favor and get out more?

Have a GREAT day! ;-)

I switched to AIO from T-Mobile and the difference was huge. I now get LTE even when I am up in the mountains where I would previously get nothing on T-Mobile. I haven't noticed a difference being capped to 8Mb/s(I use utorrent constantly too!). It is tough to saturate even that on a cell phone and the reliability more than makes up for it. The cherry on top is the $20 a month I save when you add taxes and fees on T-Mobile.

@Brans0217 Couldn't agree more. I've purchased the HD7, Venue pro, Titan, Lumia 900, 920, 1020, 1520, 635 and the 8x. I'm really getting tired of playing catch up and will probably move to Android soon. Gimmicks or not at least Apple and Google offer their customers something other than broken promises.

what are you really playing catch up with, the 925 out performs the iphone 5s, is not as buggy and is a better quality device, with 8.1/cyan on it is an excellent phone. DONT just buy a phone cause of specs, buy it because it performs well.

My thoughts exactly..in a few years, we'll see it released on an iPhone and then months later, when MSFT releases theirs, it will be like a knock off..
Makes me remember old (very old) windows laptops of mine that had fingerprint readers..or old tablet/portable PCs we used at work/site ages before ipads came out

No it wont, Takee 1 has a Holographic phone, people will get that over 3D. I'll bet Microsoft is making 1 too. Better than Takee 1 phone with Cortana Hologram.

Its not really Holographic Takee 1 has, cause its focused on where your eyes is with 4 cameras. So u will always see the top and front of the hologram. U can't just put the phone down on a table and walk around to see all sides. So its sort off holographic but not 100%. But its good to see someone is busy on it. YouTube has a vid available to watch ;)

Lol. Remember when Microsoft warned us about something that would "upset the whole world"? This was it, I guess, because it sure as hell upset all of us here.

Let's get this staright, eevryone was pinning there hopes on an unconfirmed rumor? I mean there is more to come, may not be the most high end, but there will be more.

Even more low-to-mid level phones and reparations rather than innovation is what we have to look forward to? Jeez...I can hardly wait for the paint to dry.

you hit the nail on the head, people need to stop whining about unconfirmed rumours all the time. There are high end windows phones coming soon, would you rather ms release a phone with touch 3d that performed badly just so you can say i have a touch 3d phone, dont be stupid people.

nah, that "upset the whole world" was not McLaren, it's probably the ability to run Android apps on WP devices.

Blizzard has already taken that, i stopped following video games so heavily because of the length of time it takes for any rumors or first announcments to come to fruition. I though "hey, smartphones develop fast" and got my self a windows phone and started following smartphones more heavily, only to find that Microsoft does things at a snails pace, just like the video game industry lol

Well, LG is pushing a phone with a QHD screen, Apple is supposed to have some unbreakable phone coming out, curved screen phones..... It's all gimmicky. The whole smart phone market is sold on gimmick. Hell Android itself is a gimmick. If you're only going to release technology with far reaching implications, don't be pissed when Android releases this stuff on a million handsets first. If nothing else, phones are a perfect platform to gauge adoption and practicality. High end products help the pedigree of the low end devices.

Not really very different than Gorilla Glass actually, not to mention the fact that fractures often occur at a sctratch site, so resistance to scratching is a huge plus for durability.

Dude, come take a look at my "gimmicky" G3, I assure you that you will be blown away. I have had the 920, 1520, and went to an M8 and now to the G3, there is nothing gimmicky about it, it is awesome.

double tap to wake is present on the 930, so when cyan is released for verizon it should be good to go on the icon too.

Hahaha..now everyone wants to get L930 or icon, that's what MS wanted to boost the sales of it and release McLaren when WP9 is available.

The iphone? Flagship? Id say flagship if they had a low end device to compare with. Other than a 64 bit processor which is really no big deal, the iphone has half the specs of the 930, minus 3d Dolby recording stuff, worse camera, less resolution screen. May I go on?

Samsung gs5, first off doesn't look nice Imo, second, yes it has specs but it needs it because of the software, same with htc one. WP doesn't need that good specs to run smoothly. Try putting android on a lumia 520, (I wish we could, it would be really interesting) and see how it fares. WP on the other hand works well with low specs, so even something as mid range as my 920, runs WP flawlessly, and gaming is good too.

Seems you are out of the loop, Android has low end devices that are superior spec wise to Windows Phone. We have no reason to see Android on a 520 specs, as there is a device with better specs at the same price range and performs just as well.

Posted via Windows Phone Central App

Everyone says windows phone is so light on processors. This view keeps getting repeated over and over and over. . My Lumia 920 gets hot enough to cook an egg after 15 mins solid use.
Is this the famous lightness in evidence?

Posted via the WPC App for Android!

Really...go to Anandtech and read the benchmarks. Its gaming and speed performances blow everything away. The software doesn't need all those cores, much like WP. Although the display isnt top specs, the color reproduction is awesome. The camera is only beat by Lumia 1020. I can't stand iPhone OS but yea..it's a flagship. Talk about having blinders on..lol

Microsoft is destroying. It self with this stupid ideas they make , why , why do they do this ???? ,I don't know they came up with 3D touch phone and its a patent I would say , at least make a phone to fight with other. Flagships especially the upcoming iPhone 6 , galaxy f , LG g3 pro

MS is killing themselves and killing Nokia (12500 employees leaving, Nokia Mix being sold....). Elop is only wanting cheaper devices. What about we guys waiting for the next flagship??? Definitely I can't consider 930 as the flagship and 1520 is way tooo big for me.

The best of your own apps are better on other platforms. Skype???

You've added a lot of good things on WP 8.1 and screwed up Xbox Music, Games and Video. Oh, The photo hub too!

MS, i'm really planning to leave you now!

I'm really planing to buy a g3 , what's wrong with them , they don't care about costumers , they think they are doing good , but nooo they are killing them selves , 930 isn't a flagship , we want something like gs5 specs or more !!! What's wrong with them , stupids I swear they are stupids

Windows phone doesn't need flagship hardware to run good. And I consider a 930 a flagship, it makes my 920 'flagship' look like a 520.

Well considering I have a 1520 with a 64gb memory card and have to delete apps and games every other day I think the 930 doesn't even cover my music

No.1 you are very bad at being efficient while using your storage.
No.2 you probably don't even use half of the apps regularly that you have considering you're filling at least 64 +32 gb which means you might just have downloaded every app there is to download on the store
No.3 ever thought of cloud storage? Don't tell me that's full too...

Wow.

No.1: If user has to be "efficient in the storage" on their device, you've failed in your design.
No.2: Apps are a small fraction of what typically eats storage. High res photos, music, and videos. I offload photos and video from my main camera and GoPro when out and about. I carry a lot of work tools/standards as well.
No.3: Cloud storage has two problems. First, it necessitates high data plans and second, it is easily accessible by snooping government agencies. If I wanted my shit snooped I'd be using Android.

Ok yes I agree with you actually, but not many people use or need that much storage.

Just to clarify, you also wouldn't get an iphone then?

Yes because, you know, one only uses the OS and no apps or plays any games... Think for a second first next time.

I think apps are sufficient on windows phone now. Its only people with no life who really need the 'full social integration, twitter facebook stuff, and sadly that's most people. WP has all the apps I need and I use all of them. I dont have a single one vacant. And I've only filled 23gb on my 32gb 920, and that's mostly pictures and music

"sadly that's most people" is CORRECT! Which is why WP's market share and user base is so low! Which is why dev's DO NOT WANT TO develop for WP in the first place! This news is more than convincing for me to move on! I'm NOT SETTLING for mediocre apps or missing apps/games any longer! As soon as my upgrade is here... im gone... i've been with WP since the beginning... ENOUGH IS ENOUGH...

Good for you. I hope you get all the apps and games you need, as every user has different needs. WP is sufficient for me, but it is not sufficient for everyone, so I understand that

I know its not sufficient for most.

But I think that quite a lot of android or iphone users don't even know what WP is and what it actually offers. Yes it is lacking in apps etc. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

I found out recently that quite a lot of apple users don't even know that android exists. Were they to know about WP and android they might switch. Who knows? But Microsoft isn't that good at marketing so that's unlikely that they'll know anyway

Though this news doesn't really affect me I'm probably also going to switch with my next phone. For me its the constant promises though. The ideas MS gives you, just stay that, ideas. What about xbox on WP (killed). What about playing xbox games on your xbox and continueing (is that a word?) them on your phone (never there). How many games did even have 'communication' with your xbox, like 3? Take Ms Splosion Man. How hard can it be to save the Highscore on your XBOX and fetch them to your phone so your phone understands which levels you've done with which time (only played the demo, sorry if the full version did this)? What about great Smartglass integration? Dead Rising had some great ideas (never played it) but now other plattforms get specific apps and Smartglass more ore less just stays a remote for your console (what do I have a controller for again?). Though this points are xbox concerns the list continues with normal features for me. Facebook integration (nothing like before), Messenger integration (killed), Skype integration (nothing like they made us believe), Hubs (killed), Zune (killed). The list goes on for me, but I'll end my rant here. I know they are trying to do good stuff and you can list me features they've added for the good, but for me they've killed what made Windows Phone unique.

I'm upset because back on wp7 and even when wp8 dropped we were promised Zune HD apps to be ported #AudioSurftilt yet not a single one has made a move in almost 3 years

Yup, this news has made the possibility of switching more likely for me. Android L looks mighty fine, and seems to embody many things I liked about Windows Phone to begin with.

I don't blame the Windows Phone division for this, but rather the higher ups who don't give them the resources they need to fulfill their goals.

So you consider the 1520 a flagship? Let me tell you that except for the size of the screen, the 930 has better overall specs than the 1520, 3d Dolby audio recording etc etc

So its not actually hardware which you consider to be flagship? An SD card slot makes all the difference now? I never new what such extremes technology has come to. I do not own a 930 and if I did, I'd get the 32 gb one purely because I don't need that much space.

And because not everyone needs as much space as you might do, its still quite a flagship given all other hardware requirements for most other people like me

I just don't get why they removed that feature from the 930, I think it should be the same as 1520. This is the inconsitency I blame MS/Nokia, I hope next flagships (if any) don't cut basic stuff.

not everybody cares about having sd expansion. I have a 1520 dont even come close to filling the inbuilt storage, I love the cloud, but for people with limited data on the phone, the sd would make sense. picking up my white 930 tmo.

Your my kind of person. Agree totally. That's what I was trying to say earlier but no one really cares about my view. Ah well...

+920

1520 has the same chipset features the 930 has. They both use the same Qualcomm chip. 930 is missing double tap to wake (only enabled with cyan "hack"). Did I mention no SD Card on the 930? 1520>930.

You, and when the hell did a firmware update become a "hack?" That's some bottom of the barrel stupid.

Oh, its a hack. The 930's hardware (lack of video memory) prevented it from being a standard feature. Look it up.

930 was released with Cyan on it. Icon gets double tap when Verizon releases Cyan. You have no point here.
ATIV SE still > 1520

Would love to have some of the drugs you are on. Obviously you know nothing about the specs of any of these phones. As it turns out the only reason the 930 has double tap is the "hack", yes I said "hack" again that the Nokia engineers were able to come up with to make it work. Wonder about people on this site anymore, what planet you come from. 

If you say so

And as the Microsoft engineers were able to come up with a way to let live tiles update every minute without impact on battery, which was not possible on older hardware before 8.1, but is possible on the same hardware with 8.1, would you also call that a hack? Just curious

And were not on drugs and we live on planet earth, I think its quite obvious. Its just that different people have different opinions regarding what is flagship, what is a hack etc etc. Something which is a flagship to a 920 owner like myself might not be a flagship to a 1520 owner. And I understand that. Same goes for hack. If you think its a hack, fine by me, as long as your interpretation of the word 'hack' matches what you are describing. Personally I don't think its a hack - that's my opinion, take it or leave it - because my interpretation of the meaning of the word 'hack' different from what Nokia did to the 930

I'm not here to argue. I just want to have a constructive discussion

While Double Tap isn't a feature that I have been using on my L920 with WP8.1DP,  Glance (Peek) is one that I use regularly.  With MS/Nokia deciding to put a cheaper AMOLED display without display memory on the Icon/930 (shouldn't go cheap on a flagship), Glance has not been an available feature, which has been the only thing keeping my wife and me from upgrading our 920s.  We had been waiting for the McLaren, but now we'll have to wait and see what the next flagship is and when it may be released.

Do you know if the Cyan update will provide Glance functionality for the Icon/930?  If so, we may just do our upgrade now (tired of our 920s regularly getting so hot that they get painful to hold, a common issue with the 920s).

Its not a hack. It is an official feature of that cyan firmware. Btw, 930 comes preloaded with cyan anyway, so its like that feature was always there. No SD card on 930 is only a disadvantage to those who need storage. Not many people.

930 has better audio mike recording Dolby stuff.

So my point is, for most people, who do not need that much storage, 930 can be considered a flagship

1520 has video memory, the 930 does not. Nokia had to programmagically enable double tap with Cyan. I'll say this again, the 1520 and 930 use the same chipset, which means they have the same hardware features. Once the 1520 gets Cyan, those features that you say the 930 has but the 1520 doesn't, will be enabled. That + SD, advantage 1520.

The screen on the 930 and Icon are the same. The 930 has double tap because it was released with Cyan. Every difference between 930 and Icon will be removed once the Icon gets Cyan. Other than carrier radios and color options, they are the same exact phone.

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