Why you shouldn't worry if your phone is not on the official Windows 10 upgrade list

Earlier this morning, we reported the news-not-so-news about phones with only 4GB of internal storage not receiving the Windows 10 Mobile upgrade. The revelation also repeated the list of phones that Microsoft states are getting Windows 10 Mobile, a list initially released at the end of July.

For many users, the natural question was What about my phone? For example, many Lumia 1520 users are wondering why they are not getting Windows 10 Mobile. The short answer is you are getting Windows 10 Mobile if you opt into the Windows Insider program.

Why the list?

The list of Lumia Windows Phones that are "officially" getting Windows 10 Mobile is quite lengthy.

Eligible phones for Windows 10 Mobile upgrade (so far)

  • Lumia 430
  • Lumia 435
  • Lumia 532
  • Lumia 535
  • Lumia 540
  • Lumia 640
  • Lumia 640 XL
  • Lumia 735
  • Lumia 830
  • Lumia 930

However, many people are wondering why only some phones are getting the update. Here are a few reasons for the prioritization:

  1. Carriers – Some carriers, like Verizon, are unlikely to want to test and roll out an update for the Lumia Icon, a phone that did not sell well. The carrier has to endure costs, and we all know Verizon is not quick to approve official updates anyway. This reasoning applies to other carriers as well.
  2. Age – The Lumia 1520 will be two years old by the time Windows 10 Mobile is released. In terms of full OS upgrade that pushes the limits of manufacturer support. Indeed, even in the U.S. most users are upgrading their phones every two years and increasingly every year. However, if you bought your phone in the last year it certainly is acceptable that Microsoft would give those phones the higher priority.
  3. Popularity – This point ties into carriers and age as well. The Lumia Icon and AT&T Lumia 830 have not set any sales records. If Microsoft has to prioritize their teams to work on official updates they can either target the largest and newest audience or a small minority. Ideally, Microsoft would have infinite resources and not have to choose but this is the reality of making an OS.

Of course, the real point about "official" updates is as far as we know, they do not matter. For years and years, Windows Phone fans have been clamoring for Microsoft just update phones directly.

The thing is, Microsoft is doing that.

They started doing direct updates with Preview for Developers, and they are continuing it with Windows Insiders.

Windows Insider is your liberator

If you own a Lumia 1520, Lumia 925, Lumia 1020, Lumia 920, or other you can still get Windows 10 Mobile. The only difference is you can get it through the Windows Insider program.

Indeed, official updates can be viewed as upgrades for people who are not Insiders. Not the other way around.

The benefits of being an Insider for Windows 10 Mobile are favorable for many reasons:

  1. Microsoft can still give OS updates even to older phones without carrier interference
  2. Insiders get the "official" build of Windows 10 Mobile before any approved updates go out. This process is similar to how PC Insiders had the final build a week ahead of the official release date.
  3. The Phone Insider program is likely to continue after the "official" update meaning you can continue to get even newer builds of the OS

The one question that remains is firmware. So far, Microsoft has not pushed unique firmware out for their devices. Even here, however, there remain questions:

  1. We do not know if Windows 10 Mobile even needs firmware
  2. Even if firmware comes out, it could be just carrier-specific and not necessarily OS/Hardware optimizations

Looking back at the last firmware Lumia Denim and only recent PureView devices saw any significant improvements with the update. All other phones jumped to Update 2 and did not need firmware at all.

There are only two items I can think of right now that may benefit from firmware:

  1. Hey Cortana – Only applies to the Lumia 930, Lumia 1520 as currently this feature is disabled in Windows 10 Mobile
  2. PureView Cameras – Although the Lumia 830 on AT&T did not get Denim and Rich Capture this feature is present in Windows 10 Mobile. Indeed, so far we have not seen evidence there will need to be a firmware upgrade to leverage new camera features as none have been announced.

Going forward, now that Microsoft is actually making hardware (and not just rebranding Nokia devices), we may see them do direct firmware updates for the upcoming Talkman and Cityman flagships. We are hearing that these phones will be sold directly to consumers in situations where carriers do not offer them. This ability could make Cityman and Talkman more like a Surface than an AT&T branded Lumia 830.

I do not know if this is the actual plan, but Microsoft is in the position to make that happen.

Wrapping it up

The key takeaway here is that the Windows 10 Mobile for Insiders is the same for Windows 10 Mobile "official updates". Sure, carriers may do some customization here and there, but it is the same OS.

If you do not want to beta test Windows 10 Mobile that is fine too. I see no reason you cannot enroll in the Insider program later in September or October, grab the latest bits and then leave the Insider program. This ability is not different from how the Insider program worked for PCs. For PCs, you just go into Settings and press Stop Getting Insider builds. For Windows Phone, the process is similar.

How to stop getting Insider builds for Windows Phone

Your phone is now going to stay on whatever is your current build. If you do this in October or November when Windows 10 Mobile is expected to be finalized, you just got the same update as the official one.

I want to stress that Microsoft is using the Insider program so that you can help shape the OS through feedback and testing. Nevertheless, it is also a way for a Lumia 920 to get still the latest OS without having to rely on the carriers.

Folks, this is what we have wanted, and I expect it to get even better once Microsoft begins the next generation of their Lumia smartphones. If you are complaining that Microsoft does not directly update their phones, I think you are missing the elephant in the room with the Insider program.

Regarding those 4GB phones, it is not entirely clear that remains the final position. Many users have managed to get Windows 10 Mobile on those phones and, Microsoft using the external SD card may be the way to go forward. However, for now, the initial priority remains for those devices with 8GB or more storage.

In conclusion, do not get fixated on official updates. Although they are certainly welcomed, if you are reading this article you are likely a candidate for the Insider program. Granted, Windows 10 Mobile is still rough for daily use but this is only going to improve in the next two months. If you have any of the phones not on the official list, and you have 8GB of storage or more, you can still get Windows 10 Mobile. Indeed, you are going to not only get the upgrade but likely get it before non-Insiders.

Everyone wins.

Agree or disagree? Let us know in comments what you think of the Insider program and what more Microsoft can do to ensure OS updates.

More Resources

Need more information about the Windows Insider Program for Phone? We have you covered:

Daniel Rubino

Daniel Rubino is the Editor-in-chief of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft since 2007 when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, laptops, next-gen computing, and for some reason, watches. Before all this tech stuff, he worked on a Ph.D. in linguistics, watched people sleep (for medical purposes!), and ran the projectors at movie theaters because it was fun.

  • Either this was already in the hopper or this morning made you work fast. Either way, good stuff. haha!
  • I'm a quick writer ;) Saw a need to answer these questions, so here I am lol
  • You can not make it more plain than this... If people don't get it this time around, just move on.
  • Whilst folk can easily 'get' that one can download and flash the required build in a number of ways, it is still a curiosity that MS is not distributing it universally to 8gig+ devices (except those branded devices beholden to carriers). It's already been tested on a massive scale (insider programme) so why not send it to my 820 as well as my 930 (especially as many would want to see this on their secondary, older device before committing to releasing it on their main phone)? Strange kind of universal. Though easily worked around, this kind of logic is hard to ignore entirely as it leaves me with the uncomfortable feeling that MS is up for some policy weirdness at the moment. What next I wonder?
  • I totally agree with you.. Even my Lumia 820 might not get the update this way.. Whereas I was thinking to try the WP10 on my Lumia 820 and then buy Windows 10 mobile in future. But what if the next Windows 10 mobile that I'll buy will have no guarantee of getting further updates for the third time? Whereas my other iPhone 5 (bought 2 years ago will still get iOS9 and here Daniel Rubino fanboy writes crap everyone buy a new phone every two year? - well not MOST are interested to waste their grands biannually in Mobile phones alone.). However, it clearly is a shame that My Lumia 800 (WP7) didn't get WP8, my Lumia 820 (WP8) won't also be getting WP10. *CLAPS* to Daniel like fanboy. I'm already doubting the credibility of buying another WP. Who knows if I'll be ditched again for the 3rd time, which isn't exactly the story on other platforms.. #TruthItIs
  • I am new around and a great fan and user of MS products with 4WP in my family and a 2520 and thus have the authority to express big disappointment not to be able to have wm10 on my Icon. Very expensive iconic phone and still not sure I will be able to get it. We already got it for a 925 and 635. If there won't be more consistency on MS approach to user satisfaction I am not sure if I will keep my irrational preference for MS. No clear message yet. Not very happy to have to read daily for news that are not coming.
  • So, you didn't read anything in the article. Either that or your comprehension skills are lacking. Insider Preview is how you will get W10M.
  • Not on my ICON
  • I picked up an Icon off Ebay for testing, and it is running W10M just fine through the insider program. Posted via my HTC One (M7)
  • You lucky guy. I bought mine from ATT more than a year ago. Maybe I will try erasing the preview and trying again from the begining
  • Read The damn Article
  • You are very sweet Kelzea. Thanks. Nowhere in the article is mentions that 929 will have because the change goes through ATT. I have worked on it a lot and even loaded ot on a 520 and the phone froze so I had to download the Mobile recovery program and recovered it. This all goes to let you know that I have works on it probably more than you. O am pissed with ATT and MS for not settling this and allow us to enjoy WM10. I get the update message every de hours bit it doesn't succes on installing.
    Thanks to all for participating politely
  • Maybe he does not want a preview build. Thought about that?? It is not a consolation to have access to win10 only through Insider Preview! maybe users want to use a final public build!
  • So how did he get Win 10 Mobile in his 925 and 635 then? Is he lying or ...
  • Hehehe. Wish I could.
  • Easy - Slow Ring. Thought about that?
  • Dan, what's your typing speed like (in w/m)? You seem unbelievably fast ('o')
  • No idea, but I will say taking Typing 1 and Typing 2 in high school was the best decision ever ;)
  • Cool! Those choices in the past seems productive as of now ^_^
    P.S: I'm only good at swiping :P
  • You took Typing instead of Keyboarding. You're older than I thought! (Not a bad thing.)
  • @Daniel : I wonder why you did'nt mention the fact that insider builds/developer preview builds would void the official warranty ...
  • Because there is no evidence of any manufacture not honoring the warranty
  • This. If I had a single case or even multiple examples of things going disastrously wrong recently, I would have mentioned that.
  • Well.. That explains it pretty clearly
  • Plus, most old phones are out of warranty already.
  • I wouldn't worry about warranty. Carriers offer 12 month but MS offer 24 month! My phone is will outside carrier but I got it repaired by MS after I bricked it during a roll back to 8.1. Well happy.
  • Daniel, or anyone elst that knows,  is my Samsung ATIV S Neo capabable of using the Windows Insider Program?  Thank you.
  • It *MAY* void that, Yasar. I've been using Dev Preview on my 520 ever since it's made available. Got it repaired twice from Nokia care for free. (frankly speaking, those service center guys have no idea what the heck you're running on your phone and they don't care either, as long as your phone is under the warranty period). Not sure how it works on Insider Preview though.
  • Actually that's a good news.. And seems like its party time for WP users.. Now we don't need to wait for carriers to roll out updates.. We deal with MS only..
  • Yup, the preview builds eliminate the need of carrier approval/testing.
  • Because any phone not on the official release list is probably out of warranty?!?!?
  • I talked to Microsoft for that exact reason, it's true if you are using an Inseider Build your wartanty will disappear, but if you bring back your phone to manufacture release you'll have no problem with the warranty.
  • The amount of "LOL" you are using nowadays are exponentially high :P
  • So... Can't... If my 1520 get W10M, and after this I stop my insider, I will be with offi. W10M, and I will recive updates... Right? Anyway I think, it's stupid that a TITAN like 1520 is not in the list... What the... Hell...
  • Yeah, the 1520 not being on the official update list is simply unacceptable... I don't know how that could be written with a straight face. I don't care if it's 2 years old, it still rivals many modern smartphones.
  • With these phones getting a rolled out W10 update, Lumia 430, Lumia 435, Lumia 532, Lumia 535, and Lumia 540. Then not rolling it out to many much better phones is really disgusting. Do they really have better hardware. lol
  • Not only that, also the fact that the 930 is there. The 930 is pretty much the same device, just a smaller screen.
  • If you read the article, he did mention that the devices being carrier locked might be part of the issue. Icon and 1520 are carrier locked, while 930 is very similar but not carrier locked.
  • Not everyone who owns 1520 and 930 are from US, thus not evey 1520 and 930s are carrier locked. These are the 2 of the best WP devices, and they won't get official W10M? it feels like WP7 all over again. This is not good.
  • ​Hello ive have upgrade my 3 Lumia 1520 that we use in my family by using upgrade advisor not by insider program. Isnt the uppgrade ready for all 1520 is it diffrent regions? I live in scandinavia
  • And especially the 1020, something with that nice of camera and no 10? I mean I get carriers hate wp updates, but all phones can be on denim if they use preview for devs, therefore they should get the update.
  • I do not quite understand, my Lumia 925 will get Windows 10 Mobile or not?
     ---->Daniel commits suicide
  • lol
  • haahaahaaahaa.. LOL
  • So will the Lumia icon get it or not? Wasn't very clear
  • You will if you join the Insider program.
  • Yes but what happens if after he joins and installs the public build he opts out? will he receive officia public updates? Because not all agree to continue testing builds..
  • I don't think anyone is sure. He can always opt to get slow ring builds one at a time when he wants to update, but we're not sure yet. Microsoft has said they will push updates independent of carriers but we don't know how.
  • I know this is off topic, but i was wondering if the one handed mode works with capacitive button phones? Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • One handed mode works with phones that have a screen 5" or larger. Buttons shouldn't matter.
  • My bad,,,i meant to ask if it worked with onscreen button phones,,ive only seen it demoed on capacitive button phones. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • it does
  • Thank you for your reply. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Can I ask a thing, although it may need time actually to answer this question: Will the official W10 update be available only for Lumia devices, or also for white labled devices with 8GB ROM and 1GB RAM, like the XOLO WIN Q1000, which was updated few months back to Windows Phone 8.1 Update 2 even though most Lumia devices never got it?
  • It's not exactly clear yet, as at that point it's up to the manufacturer of those devices to prepare the OS for their particular devices (although it's all the same operating system there's always "optimizing"). Companies like Blu are almost certain to update their devices at least eventually as they've proven they're fans of Microsoft, while companies like Kazam have already said their current Windows Phone devices will not be getting the upgrade (although they have also said there will definitely be new Windows 10 Mobile devices). Up to the manufacturer.
  • Exact same thing bothering me I have an sgh-t899m which was a aws lte variant of ativ s since Samsung has had to many problems with the base I dont have hope for it which is sad since il need a branded device to use my service providers tap to pay service which I hope td could update their app to be compliant. & nothing leaked so far interests me
  • I think I may keep my old Lumia 920 as a show and tell item for my grandkids way way down the line.lol
  • You and I both. It'll be a collectors item looked back on with great nostalgia.
  • What about Lumia 730?? Is the Lumia 730 get official update?
  • What about Lumia 730? Is the Lumia 730 get any official update??
  • Just gave me 3 reasons why I should not to invest in Windows Phone. So tired of being let down. Been using Windows Phone since 6.1. (Lumia Icon today), but now thinking seriously of moving to a different platform.
  • WACK......I've been on since WM 6.5 and also use a Lumia Icon today.  I also use an iphone (work phone) daily and I can tell you that the platform will be the best available once WIN10 is officially available for phones.  Microsoft is bieng proactive here and finding their fans a way to have access to the latest, greatest OS without having to rely on the carriers to do their work for them.  In the future this will be less of an issue as carriers will no longer hold dominion over their customers and or handsets since contracts are no more.  If I choose to upgrade to a new device 950/950XL to experience the new OS I have that option, but if I wanna stick with my Icon for a bit longer I have the option of using the insider program until I'm ready to upgrade.  The argument is a moot point considering how much complaining has been done in regards to the lack of new flagship devices.  Sooner or later it's time to upgrade and the real "Next best thing" will be available when it is.
  • 1520 2 years old ?? tablets and phones are still realeased with the same hardware most commonly lesser hardware than the 1520 packs.. The only obvious reason not to push wp10 to the 1520 is to make people buy the next flagship MS will be pushing. My 1520 sports the NOKIA name, guess I'll have to keep it until I can get a real NOKIA again...
  • It's a carrier locked phone. We don't know what legal agreements Microsoft may have with ATT which may get in the way. We really don't know any of the details here. But it is carrier locked which may be part of the problem.
  • Glad that the Windows 10 mobile posts are back! Lol.
  • Daniel was on a Copy/Paste frenzy with people asking why their phone wasn't on the list.
  • Is Insider Preview actually stable on WP? I thought it was pretty unstable. 
  • The new builds are definitely stable-ish.
  • I'd say mostly stable. They are still beta test builds, and there are still bugs to be squashed.
  • This is my sentiment. It's like 80-90% there. Still some improvements needed though.
  • 80% to 90% there? Wow, W10 on tablets is only ~50% there currently and that's supposed to be final already. I wish they'd waited and put W10 out on all devices at once. Do you think such an 80% to 90% complete build for tablets will come out at the same time as WM10? Exciting if true.
  • I have been using it for about a month on a 640 (gophone deal) but this last build has worn me down with the issues, monor they may be.  So I hopped back over to my at&t 830 and now I'm back in the lack of Denim debacle...  830 is SO much nicer but it is crippled by at&t and their unwillingness to release the Denim update for it. If for some reason at&t becomes the only wireless carrier I will not have a cell phone any more.
  • What do you think you get from denim on the 830?
  • Can someone explain what they mean by AT&T won't be releasing Denim?    I have Denim installed on my AT&T 830, and it updated right out of the box.    So I'm confused as to what the phone isn't recieving
  • It has denim but not full denim, we were promised these for launch and never got them, faster shot to shot, hold to record, being able to adjust focus and brightness while shooting video, rich capture. All of these things are missing, were promised several times, soon, later this year, end of the year, beginning of 2015, the end of feb, soon, then idk, then its att's fault, then att says they don't have any idea what's happening and they look at you stupidly.
  • The Lumia 830 is a peculiar case... Out of the box the extras+info screen says it has Denim already onboard. The thing is: it hasn't... You can tell by the lack of Rich Capture in the Lumia Camera app. The Lumia 830 has proved to be a major software f***-up at release only to be rectified almost half a year later by a revised and newer 'Denim' update.
    And to add to that: the Lumia 830 has been my mst unstable Lumia so far; it's still having major Bluetooth issues for instance :-(
  • The Lumia 830 was released with "fake" Denim, meaning it had some of Lumia Denim, but didn't feature the new camera improvements. The international Lumia 830 has since been updated, but AT&T has been particularly stubborn (and confused) and practically dropped their own branded Lumia 830 software wise. As for instability, the Lumia 830 is extremely stable. It has a few hardware quirks though that I've actually detailed before in a full review I wrote. Bluetooth and the hardware soft keys are the main points there.  
  • Fake denim.... Hmmm, gotta check if my pants are made of that shitt
  • They never updated my 520 to Denim and when asked they said the have no plans to update it at all =( 
  • No shit
  • Not now necessarily, RTMs. (or whatever we are calling it now) You will be able to update to that build from the preview, then immediately disable. I don't have the current build on my daily, but I will at some point, regardless of official rollout or not. (1520). I do have on a 920 and it has a little to go before i feel ok putting on daily.
  • Win10 Mobile RTM will be delivered through Insider program too.
  • That's not the point of what this article is about. If you want Windows 10 Mobile on your phone when it goes RTM then you can use Windows Insider to update your device even though it's not on the official list.
  • I put it in my 1520 and since I did a hard reset on build 10166 then upgraded to 10512 even without another hard reset it's been very solid, I had to play about with my wife's 830 today and I found going back to 8.1 awkward to say the least, more than happy with 10 on the 1520 and as others have mentioned it's still going to improve. So my next job is to get the 830 sorted, may leave that for another build though.  
  • Hows the 1520's power management is the battery being sucked dry curious as a l929 user since thats what made 8.1 unusable without fw/customized drivers
  • So should I upgrade or not depends unless Microsoft takes away stupid splash screens with loading and resuming screens for systems apps on my 2 years old Lumia 520.
  • On my 521, it wasn't pleasant. Good luck to you if you decide to take the chance.
  • The 520 is just not powerful enough at this point
  • Haha.. You cant expect a samsung galaxy note 5 kinda perfomance on a 2 year old super budget smartphone like lumia 520 .. Stop blaming MS bro.. Its time to upgrade your phone
  • yes ms is tge one to blame.why does calendar take 2-3 secs to open where as my mother's 4 years old galaxy y opens in just a sec.I would be fine even with WP 8.0 as it has more useful features(podcasts in store,smooth music player,fast and fluid app opening time) for me than shit slow wp8.1.That's why I stated system apps not store apps.
  • Even the 4year old galaxy stomps the shit out of it spec wise
  • Specs wise may be you got it wrong its features are.
  • Go get a galaxy Y then.. Or get a decent Lumia like 730 or plus.. And open calendar or whatever in just a sec.
  • I have the Lumia 520 running Windows 10 Mobile and it's very smooth. It's nothing compared to my Lumia 830 on Windows Phone 8.1, of course, but for a two year old budget device it's very nice. There's plenty of stuttering, but you're using a device that you can get for less than $10 in some places, so that's to be expected.
  • And what about the 820 ?I have that phone and still watching resuming when move between apps and others that odd gets closed if have lot opened, and has 1,5gh dual core and. 1gb ram, now Windows is too visual effects focused so all the fancy effects of display causes that now Windows mobile be on par with android in terms of hardware specs for move such things
  • With the power of the preview we can overcome carrier limit
  • Well, that's the purpose, I suppose.
  • No the developer release was made for make easier to developers do and update the apps that they have done
  • Why 530 never apear on the list's ?
  • It only has 4GB of internal storage and at the moment is not supported.
  • Since you didn't care to read this article, do you care to read this one instead? http://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-mobile-update-unlikely-4gb-phones
  • 4GB?
  • See the earlier article. Your Lumia 530 is not getting Windows 10 through an official update. 4GB of internal storage is a limiting factor.
  • But the Lumia 530 is supported for the Insider Preview? Why is it supported for the Insider Preview and not getting it officially?
  • Because its not a good experience infact it most likely will not fit unless you do a wipe before even upgrading
  • I purchased a 530 back in February for the Insider Preview. I was able to get the first build installed on and it ran okay but when the second build was released in late February. I was not able to install due to low memory. Even freeing space didn't help. So I later bought a prepaid 635 to run the Insider Preview. However it appears that the 635 will not get official Windows 10 later this fall. So for people with that device as Daniel pointed out will have to contiune using the Insider Preview.
  • My 8GB Lumia 640 has just 3 1/2 GB's available storage out of the box.  How much more storage is Windows 10 going to eat up?
  • Exactly, my 640 says 8 GB, which means 7.2GB is what is present, of which the OS occupies 4.21GB :/
    And this was available out of box. Add 450MB of map data, that just includes my state, not even the other 28 states of my country, because our dear Microsoft decided to unpublish Lumia Storage Ceck Beta which had the option to save and move maps to SD Card, some contacts and messages, and just a few apps on the internal memory, I only manage 1.3-1.4GB free space on my 640..
  • Get a card
  • Geez! Thank you for telling man! I never knew, one can add storage to phone -_-
    I have a 32 GB SD Card, that's more than half empty. The point is, the OS using up too much of the internal storage when I can not even install many apps, like WhatsApp and few more, to SD card, or keep maps of my entire nation on board, because they are over 1.5GB, and Microsoft keeps making useless decisions to unpublish the only app that let you use the SD Card for maps storage. So I am stuck with just a small subset of offline maps with me, though I need to travel beyond that much often!
  • It has to have space to download the update before it wipes 8
  • I like the fact that every writer at windowscentral is now deleting my comments from all posts. This shows the respect and power of truth. Truth wins
  • I've read your comments. If you'd stop trolling and stick to facts and opinions based on facts you'd be included in the conversation.
  • Windows 10 needs Lumia Denim firmware. They said that.
  • Need a source. I don't recall that information. Also, how is Windows 10 Mobile then running on all our non-Denim phones? What changes?
  • Here: "Get your Lumia ready"  "In order to upgrade to Windows 10, your Lumia device will need to have the Lumia Denim software update installed." Here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/mobile/windows10/
  • Okie.. Now you have a point.. But trust me.. W10M does'nt require Denim for now ( atleast in the case of insider builds )
  • They keep saying that: http://wmpoweruser.com/hang-tight-microsoft-confirms-that-they-hope-to-u... Dont know why.
  • I kind of think that is shorthand for the lastest version of Windows Phone 8.1. Could be wrong, but we are clearly running 10 on non-Denim devices and they behave the same/have no disadvantages we know of yet.
  • They copy/paste. I do that every time at work ... so lol
  • Then again, the 920 did get a denim update as part of the process of installing the windows 10 preview.
  • That may be that your phone will have to be running Lumia Denim before it recieves Windows 10 Mobile through official channels, but doesn't refer to the Insider Preview program.
  • One of my test device ( Lumia 625 ) is on Lumia Black firmware..and guess what, I'm running WM10 on it ..
    @Zapella.. I think you misunderstood some informations from MS
  • And how is the performance in the Lumia 625? I wanted to install W10M in my 625, but get robed last week and always wanted to know how was the performance in that little pretty device.
  • Well, in L625 Loading and Resuming screens are shown oftenly.. But considering the RAM of the device, it does perform very well and does the job.. There is still 25% of bugs left here and there throughout the OS.. Other than that, W10M is rock solid on L625 :)
    And Sorry to hear that you got robbed.. But be happy that now you have a reason to buy a new one.. :p Get a Lumia 640XL ;)
  • The extreme the difference is that android isn't Google the manufacturer of the phone (hardware) also if Microsoft promised upgrade to everyone must accomplish if not themselves will get the worst punish from the user which can move to android or IOS instead of bear the lack of apps which will get deeper with the Windows mobile 10 because later nobody will make or upgrade apps for windows phone 8.1 since are focused on Windows 10 mobile. In fact I feel abandoned by Microsoft because in my country can't get an higher end because isn't stores that sell it and neither don't know how expect MSFT make popular to Windows phone if don't make ads for make get known by people then how expect that hanging from an old brand to get known. Either if the legacy models don't get the version of Windows 10 then the people will purchase an android phone or IOS and the only one that will get hurted is Microsoft mobile which I don't think have remaining long life later of this
  • I agree MS just playing a game with an unstable mind and that intention sinks MSFT entirely in next few years
  • Why is my L730 not mentioned in the list of phones that will get the first upgrade?
  • Read the article.
  • Again read the article he'll skim the fucker even
  • I did, both articles don't mention the l730. I don't care about a preview program
  • Clearly you should get an iphone
  • Yea you are right, I guess its time to leave this dying platform
  • If you would read the article, you would see that the Insider program is the way you will get W10M. Thanks for reading and comprehending.
  • Then your comprehension fails you sadly. :(
  • To be fair, only the 735 is mentioned in the article. The 730 is just a dual-sim variant of the 735. It will get W10m.
  • Well said. Now waiting for the next build. Should be a killer.
  • It's quite possible I missed this somewhere, but this article only discusses Lumia phones. What about other existing phones from HTC, Samsung, etc.? Is there a list of those that will be eligible for the upgrade?
  • Those are up to each OEM and so far, as usual, they are quiet.
  • The Lumia icon is the same (essentially) as the 930. Is it getting it?
  • The Lumia Icon is not included in the list in the article. Speculation in the article is that that is possibly due to Icon being carrier-locked.
  • I would not hold your breath. Same thing as the 930 to a point, The Verizon stuff is needed, and Verizon wont update it I am sure. I would almost bet that we will be dev preview for life on the ICON.
  • The point of the article was that if you're an Insider, you're getting W10M, regardless of OEM. Just as I'm using 10 on my One M8 and will be using it it on my ATIV S Neo whenever they add it to the program. As far as the official list, no idea when other OEMs will get added.
  • That's not correct, actually. So far even for insiders, only certain models are supported. For instance, the Ativ S Neo you mentioned may never be able to get the W10M through the insider program. My Win Blu HD will not get W10M. For third-party phones, updates are up to the manufacturer, even Insider updates.
  • Yes, I know only certain models are supported, which is why I qualified "whenever they add it to the program". If MS was so inclined they could add the Neo and Blu HD to the program today, just as they allowed ANY device to join the Preview for Developers. Insider updates aren't decided by nor controlled by OEMs at all.... What IS controlled by OEMs are the repository of flashable WP8 bits which MS would need access to in order to add support for rolling back through the WP Recovery Tool. That's the reason MS doesn't open the flood gates to all, is because I don't have a recovery path for my Neo and would be SOL if there was a failure.
  • Didn't even need to see who wrote this to know who wrote It I have been here too long
  • Next step is to move Insider to non-Windows phones...
  • Huh?
  • Do you mean Non-MS? Cause I think the HTC One M8 already has it.
  • There are more phones besides One M8, like HTC 8X, Samsung Ativ line of devices, BLU, Yezz etc.
  • He meant for any android phone
  • Meant Android and IOS phones...
  • ...haha...ha?
  • Do you mean the Nokia X and X+??
  • Yeah, I meant any phone that doesn't run Windows mobile like say a Sony xperia z...
  • I don't really get why an average user should take time to understand how to enter the Preview program. The point is that the update should come officially for everyone.
  • 100% agreed with you. Just because you have an Insider program, you cannot make everyone enroll into it. After all why do we have OTA? Definetly not to make us register as an Insider to enable it.....
  • OTA updates are controlled by the carrier, 100%. I agree that Microsoft should make the updates happen regardless of carrier, but the 8 and 8.1 OS don't have that capability built in, so the Insider app is the way around that. Hopefully this will be included in 10.
  • You mean to toggle the button in the app?
  • I mean discovering that an Insider Preview program exists, reading how it works, acknowledging the risks, enrolling, reading every build changelog to see if something is inside, stopping preview builds at the right time. This is just not a solution.
  • You could just upgrade once the final build Is out then unenroll
    Ms doesn't have the clout of apple they can't just do that
  • That's not quite how the Insider Preview program was designed to work
  • Nope but it does work that way
  • He's correct, if can be used that way. Microsoft, for whatever reason, didn't build an update system into the phones which can bypass the carriers. They've stated they want to do this with 10, but it just didn't exist with 8 or 8.1. So that's just not possible at this time. Carriers control OTA updates through SIM tech, so Microsoft's option is an app.
  • Reaaaaly? Step 1: Download app. Step 2: Enter in email and login Step 3: Pick Slow or Fast rings Step 4: Reboot phone Step 5: Get update How, exactly is that difficult? You are saying Microsoft should force you to take an update on your older phone and change the UI/features around without a choice? Hmm....
  • Read the comment here http://www.windowscentral.com/why-you-should-not-worry-windows-10-upgrad... And again, this is just not a solution. My father has a Windows Phone, he doesn't know English. Do you expect him to study all the Insider Preview thing just for getting an update Microsoft has been publicizing for months? Well, no.
  • Yeah yeah make users do that just so that MS does not have to worry about supporting the old devices... Right? If the devices on the official list are not being forced then how will the others be forced? How will it be forcing users to update if they provide through OTA? Isn't there an option to disable auto update?
  • The Insider Program is not a solution for not providing proper RTM updates to all WP8.1 devices as originally promised. It's not a siolution for updating any phone where you want to be 100% sure you don't get screwed over on you main phone by a Beta build; and doing the hack to enable and disable the insider program just to get a specific update is never how the Insider Program was designed to work.
  • Well, then what is a better solution when the carriers and OEMs don't want to support older phones? At least they gave us a way to update WP 8.1 devices. I wonder how many Android phones will get Marshmallow or how long it will take to receive it once it's officially released. Android users have no simple "app and tap" solution to bypass anything. So why is MS being blamed in all of this? The last time I checked, HTC 8x owners still can't get aboard the Insider Program because the OEM isn't providing any failsafe in case anything goes wrong. Should 8x owners scream at MS as well?
  • No, but no matter, many users WON'T be so happy to board the insider preview because they want STABLE builds on their phones. Let me ask you this: what happens when through insider app MS pushes a new beta build? how then a user with a phone not listed on the MS's "wonder list" will get the stable public build of W10?? Unless they modify the insider app to add a new option for : Stable Ring I see no positive option in this method! Again Microsoft said one thing and now they do another..so much for the trust
  • "what happens when through insider app MS pushes a new beta build?" You mean the same insider app they can use to leave the program after they receive the RTM build? I have know idea...
  • It would be nice to give users an option to be able to choose whether they wishedto bupgrade to win10 Mobileb or just receive any updates for the 8.1 OS. And this is for the official releases not thw Insider program. They cannot force users to upgrade to Win 10. So, everyone is happy.
  • Completely agree.
  • Because the updates aren't tested on those devices and it's up to the user to decide if he want to risk it. It really isn't much of a risk since you can always revert back to the older build. However, the user has a device that isn't supported by the carriers anymore and has 2 choices. Stay with the OS version he got when he bought the device or install the app and in a few easy steps get the updated OS.  I have seen IOS updates that made older iphones run incredibly slow. At least with Microsofts method, you can revert back to an older OS. With Apple's method, you have to buy a new Iphone.  
  • Oh so you mean to say Microsoft wants to save cost by not testing it for all devices. This should have been clarified before claiming all Windows Phone 8.1 users will get Windows 10 Mobile.
  • You realize it is still not clear if this is just Wave 1 of updates or the end all, be all list.
  • Agreed that it's not the final list. But if they leave out devices, in my opinion it will not be great as they promised to make the update available to all WP8.1 devices.  
  • Who says they aren't testing it on other devices? Microsoft can test it on any devices it chooses, but if the carriers refuse to test/support/push out the update for these older devices then they will never receive it. This is where the Insider program comes in by giving the user the choice to opt-in to OTA updates. 
  • In such case Microsoft mobile death is coming soon
  • An company that can't make their products that available in a country that has an population of cell phones of 23,000,000 of people and can't keep their promise then I think the death of Windows mobile or Windows phone will come soon if Microsoft don't clarify if all will get the update or only the ones in the list will get it
  • Hi daniel, Just wanted to Know m using NL 630DS....Thru the insider program i will be able to get W10M....I just wanted to know that do i need to delete the apps stored on Internal memory for me to upgrade to W10M...I am currently using 5GB of internal storage (Whatsapp, viber, mytube truecaler etc..)installed on internal storage as these cant be transferred to sdcard. Kindly confirm if i need to clear all these apps before going for the upgrade.do i also need ot remove my sd card before taking the update.... Regards  
  • In my experience, it's better to remove the sd card even before downloading the update. Otherwise the spinning wheels spin forever. If you have 3gb of free storage, no need to clear any apps. But do a hard reset after the update, and don't restore any back up after the reset, except backup created by individual apps, like WhatsApp. Just start afresh. Good luck.
  • Normally yes but MS never seems to clarify things at the right time. They needed beta testers for free: us, users and not to pay a few dozens of engineers to do it. It was all about cost reduction. I haven't heard professional engineer at their customer support hotline since forever...only employees from India, Philipines etc which seems to have no f*** clue about anything. Sorry for being rude, but when you call in UK and ask a simple question, and the answering guy who btw of course is not from UK, with a horrible English accent, is not able to answer, and this happens several times...what conclusion can you take?? Save the costs and provide low level services.
  • Carrier dependant is not Microsoft dependant.. If a carrier is not gonna push a update Microsoft has made freely available it's not microsoft's fault... Period. My icon is not on the list either and I for one am grateful that Microsoft has provided a alternate route to get windows 10 mobile update.. Using the insider program practically everyone can update.
  • Yes it is Microsoft's fault! Updates come from MS's servers, and not carrier's servers! It is Microsoft's fault to allow carriers to block updates!
  • You gave no idea what you are talking about... The carriers own the responsability, if Microsoft has made a freely available update and they choose not to tear and push it. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • THIS. A normal joe won't even be bothered to get the latest updates. How can they get 10 now?
  • I definetly feel Microsoft should provide the Windows 10 Mobile update to all compatible phone (at least non carrier branded) without having to enroll into the Insider program. Just what they did for the desktop and tablets. You cannot expect a lay user to enroll into the Insider program.
  • Same thing happens on android. With android you have to know how to root a device to install an update on an unsupported device. Microsoft's method is much easier.
  • Dude do you think I use Windows Phone because I want to work the way Android works. I seriously don't care what happens in the Android world. If Microsoft said that Windows 10 will be available for all Windows Phone 8.1 devices then they should provide it (officially and not through Insider Program).
  • And I want a flying nuclear powered car. I don't care what's scientifically possible. Damnit Chrysler, give me a flying car!
  • That's correct. Microsoft's solution isn't perfect, and I really hope for improvement. However, when opposed to the normal reality for anyone on any other non-iOS device, Microsoft's solution at this point is an improvement over what we've had in the past.
  • Why not it takes 4 steps. Seems pretty easy to me... Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • If one of the major US carriers (Verizon) can't be bothered to upgrade their phones to Windows 10, then the future is still pretty bleak overall.
  • Not like this is any different from Android.
  • Why compare to Android which has shit update process instead of living up to higher standards and comparing to Apple who do updates the right way. Is this the new policy to be satisfied with the worst aspects of other systems instead of living up to higher standards and holding Microsoft to higher standards then the mess that is Android?  
  • Of course Apple does it "the right way". The issue is, no one can get that deal again. Does Samsung, who arguably has more power than Apple, get that privilege? Why do you think that is? All OEMs would prefer to skip the carriers. The problem is, they are selling phones to the carriers first. That is who "owns" the phone. Carriers then re-sell it to you. It's not about holding to standards, it is the reality of the OEM-Carrier relationships. Apple is the one and sole exception to this policy. I mean, don't you think if Microsoft could do what Apple did they would? It benefits them to do so, they know that.
  • Well this applies only to phones sold in the US, or where ever is there an OEM-Carrier deal. Rest any where in the world, where phones are sold as unbranded, by the OEM themselves, for example in India, I find it difficult to understand the reasons for OEMs not updating their handsets. Its okay if there is a delay, because that means they are testing it, but all together non availability of updates is beyond my comprehension
  • Apple got a one time sweetheart deal with the industry to be able to be the keys to their own kingdom as far as updates. They had a LOT of pushback originally and AT&T was the only one that would play ball with them, then that simply became "the deal" to get the iPhone. Microsoft doesn't have that kind of leverage AT ALL, so lets please drop that comparison. No one is ever getting that deal ever again.
  • Yeah true, but Windows Phone is still in catch up mode. These updates are critical to help get the platform on par with the incumbents. But aside from this, your article is great! Good fast work!
  • Without any upgrade of 8.1 to 10 will not be new apps or updated ones and in such case the people will abandon the platform which will harm to Microsoft, like what happened with the people which had Windows 7,8 and they don't get any updated app anymore,
  • You are right. Standard users should be able to get the update normally OTA and not having to go through Insider App, because that would push also future beta builds!! I was kinda expecting this..got used to being screwed: WP7.5->8, Surface RT...yeah..I know the drill MS is doing...
  • "users should be able to get the update normally OTA... I know the drill MS is doing". What "drill" would this be? OTA is 100% under the control of carriers. Carriers trigger the OTA update sending signals over their networks to devices using their SIMs/CDMA chips. Microsoft doesn't provide your SIM or your cell service, so that's not in their control.
  • Android controls 80% of the market and WP is hanging on by the skin of its teeth. How can you possibly compare the two?
  • Mwright53 msft and Windows phone only hangs though the older brands Nokia, because as Microsoft brand don't sell any phone also is or still being funny the marketing policy which in many countries don't make any ads, or even efforts to get their products and all the lines.
  • I wasn't expecting older phones like the 920 to officially get the update, but the 1520 surprises me a bit. The thing here is that even as of today, it is still the flagship Windows Phone and while it may be 2 years old by the time Windows 10 Mobile is released, it was still being sold until recently. In addition, it was the phone that was used for the original demonstrations of Windows 10 Mobile. For me, I'm fine with using the Insider Preview on 1520. In fact, I have been running the past 2 builds as a daily driver. However, I think many people associate the Insider Preview with unstable beta OS and will be disappointed that their $600 phone (1520) they might have bought even earlier this year isn't even officially supported by Windows 10. At least it's not as bad as the Lumia 900 was situation though.
  • Still 2 years old
  • Completely irrelevant how old it is. If the hardware is able to run WP10, which it is, then it should get it without any stupid excuses period.
  • It is up to the carriers if you want it "official"
    They are not going to test and push an update for a any phone besides iPhone that is more than 18 months old period But direct from.ms how more official can it be
  • What about the unbranded phone being sold in most of the world that have nothing to do with a Carrier?
    Just the OEMs have to test updates, not anyone else. Its just because most companies are lazy, plain simple.
  • This^^ apart from US and few other places most people have non-carrier phones, so no excuse for Microsoft not to release official updates for their own Lumia phones.
  • and wat'smore, the phones still WORK with the carriers,although the do NOT have Carrier "approved" software. This is crap! Carriers do not help MS, they ditch Windows Phones! Even shops do NOT propose youANY Lumua or other WPhone. At least in Greece. MS should make stores in every country, depend and rely on their powers. No Verizon, no ATT, no Vodafone, NOTHING!
  • Agreed. It isn't like there was a flagship successor that rightly took the 1520's spot. 2 years have passed by with no real king.
  • Since when does screen size mean king i could argue and will that the one is the best period
  • Screen size? Who said that? Derp much?
  • 1520 only was not the last flagship unless you discredit the one or icon
  • 920 is 2012 model in UK.
  • Daniel, Your list of phones left out the Lumia 928.  I'm running Mobile 10 and aside from the occasional boot loop, it seems to work just fine.
  • These are the phones that will so far officially get W10M. Not the ones that can run the OS.
  • Whatever the article, looking at that pic I just want Microsoft to release a new phone with exactly the same design as the 920. Best design on any phone ever.
  • Daniel, great job in explaining this to us masses :) Thanks again for reiterating that Microsoft is not going to let owners of older phones / phones with lesser specs just wander aimlessly in the desert; as you have stated, the windows insider program will be there for the VAST majority of us. appreciate what you and the rest of the WindowsCentral folks do and this is why i keep coming back here for not only "beginner" how-to articles but also for the more detailed instructions to the insightful articles and of course, the rumors!
  • Thanks! Appreciate it.
  • +1520 I'll be using the insider for the rest of my phone's life..!  Lately I've been having a little trouble with the Groove app to load up... I have been making my playlist offline, this is the only thing new I've done. Other than this the build is stable for me, nothing to go crazy about.  
  • I'd simply buy a new phone.
  • "We are hearing that these phones will be sold directly to consumers in situations where carriers do not offer them." Does this mean Cityman and Talkman will work on Verizon's network, even if Verizon drops Windows phones?
  • Depends/Maybe. They will have universal GSM radios, but CDMA can throw things for a loop. Have to wait and see.
  • There are recent news articles that for the first time users will be able to get non-Verizon iPhone and Nexus devices to work on the network. If it happened for those, it might happen for W10 flagships, but it's unlikely as MS doesn't have the same weight to throw as Google or Apple.
  • This thing is very stupid... In the last month or week, don't remember, Microsoft says windows 10 after official launch it's available for all lumias... Now MS say, windows 10 it's only for specifics lumias
  • It's available to all running the insider
  • Running Win10 Insider on a 520 and 635, none of which is on the list. Both have issues and crashes, my guess is 512MB is not quite enough.
  • Do you have SD cards in your phones? I have a Nokia Lumia 520 with a 32GB class 10 SD card. Do you think it will fair any better?
  • Void Warranty is the white elephant in the room, Daniel.
  • Nope
  • "Void Warranty is the white elephant in the room, Daniel."
    So here is the thing. Preview for Developers is not new. Insider Program is not new. Has there been any examples of someone ruining their phone with these programs and not getting any support from Microsoft/Nokia? If there are, I am simply not aware of them. It's totally possible things have gone wrong, people got screwed. I just have not seen evidence that this is a "thing" to worry about. Legalese, while important, is often just that a CYA for the company.
  • There are a few threads here and few other friendly sited talking about "bricks". It's just concerning that average mum, dad and Joe has to know of this Insider Preview stuff to get the latest and greatest OS on! Unless Microsoft pre-enrolls every phone to Insider program by default via small update, it will leave many ordinary users wanting an iPhone instead. Isn't that, exactly why people want an iPhone? "It just works"
  • Serious question: How many "ordinary" users or "average" mum even know about Windows 10 Mobile? Will know about Windows 10 Mobile. Will want Windows 10 Mobile? My "ordinary" friends have no idea what OS they are on. They know the phone make/hardware, but the OS is lost on them. In the end, they just want text, email, phone, and apps. I think that is the point. If you're gnashing your teeth about Windows 10 Mobile today, reading websites about it, you are a serious user. Congrats, become an Insider! If you are ordinary though, I doubt you will know/care that much.
  • Well said Dan
  • How many will tell you they have the google phone Or oh it runs galaxy
  • "I'm using a galaxy, it runs on samsung"... I almost bit my tongue off trying to stop laughing.    
  • Daniel, I'm sorry that you have to rehash alot on here. I only hope that you have a large cache of copy and pasted sentences and paragraphs so when you reply to these folks its just a couple clicks for you....
  • I have a L830 with W8.1 and a L920 with W10. As soon as the official release arrives I'll have W10 on both phones...
  • WP 7.8 all over again. Getting tired of these situations.
  • WP 7.8 all over again was with the RT :)) this is WP 7.8 and RT all over again..
  • So the 630 is not popular, or is it about the 512 MB ram too?
  • Don't worry, it's in.
  • I can't understand.... Finally,530 can run Windows 10 or not?
  • No
  • Technically yes, officially no. There are people in our forums who have evidently managed to get it to work.
  • But it's painful
  • You have commented 3 times about it and each time someone has answered your question about the 530. Please read upthread and the article that someone linked to you.
  • So not only do you not read articles, you don't read replies as well and continue to post the same dribble? Or do you just like trolling? smh
  • If firmware is not needed for Windows 10 Mobile to work well, then great.  Windows Phone 8.x phones needed firmware in addition the OS updates to really work well.  It will be great to finally break free from the carriers.
  • Most of the firmware updates were to enable hardware capabilities related to the camera or Hey Cortana AFAIK. Not all OS updates need firmware though IIRC.
  • I have Windows 10 mobile installed on my L1520. But, there is missing of "hey Cortana" feature. Can you tell me why?? Or, I am doing something wrong... Daniel... Very good article...
  • Hey cortana is currently blocked in W10M .. Will be added in upcoming builds
  • Understood. I just know that my 928 had issues on the Developer Preview builds until Verizon released the firmware updates. Side question, I no longer see links to open the app and respond to comments, although maybe that is only if you first commented in the app? My initial comment was through IE on my desktop, this one is through the app, so I will see.
  • As I understand it, you need official firmware to use wi-fi calling on T-Mobile.  Perhaps that is changing. 
  • I have a l925 factory reset running 10 with WiFi calling running
  • But if the legacy models don't got, firmware update, just the name denim, since they got Windows 8.1.1
  • Ok, so I use Lumia 625, and if I won't download Windows 10 via Insider app I will never get the update?
  • I think you will but its up to your carrier if you want to take ownership though just download the app
  • Should I run the preview on my HTC One M8? Anyone tried this?
  • I have just make sure if you depend on it to check your alarm sounds cause at some point it will lose the sounds and you will have to choose a new sound
  • That's strange. Any other issues? I used to use dot view but abandoned it because I grew tired of holding the damn cover open.
  • Oh the HTC stuff doesn't work no double tap yet
  • If I were you, don't do it, unless you want to participate in reporting lots of bugs. I love using Windows 10 on my M8 but sometimes I'm fighting it to do something basic like download a MMS.
  • If you watch the translations errors that have Windows 10RTM in Spanish language, would change your mind if they really fix all the bugs on time
  • If no firmware is required for Windows 10 Mobile, does that mean the Preview for Developers program is over?
  • Basically, yes. It has been supplanted by Insider program.
  • Thanks for answering.
    But if no firmware is required, is it possible that all unbranded compatible Windows phones will receive the official upgrade as soon as it's available?
  • I'd say unlikely, but we just don't know yet.
  • Bottom line is Microsoft promised to update all devices running WP8.1 to WP10 officially NOT through a Beta test program not intended for mission critical devices, but for developers that are testing new features ahead of release. Until Microsoft says so otherwise that is the official position no matter what backdoor way of getting WP10 there is by enabling and disabling the insider preview to get just the update you want. And by ALL it means all, not just the new mid-range and low-end phone but the older flagships running WP8.1 as well.
  • And why are you not blaming the carriers ? And its not WP10, it's W10M .. " tourists" ;)
  • Why should I be blaming carriers, Microsoft is the one that allows them to block updates. And I could not give a flying crap about whether its WP10 or W10M.  
  • And they are the one who is providing the back door as well.. And you know what, MS could not give a flying crap about whether you are blaming carriers or MS. :D
  • Carriers is a nice excuse for carrier branded phones but outside the US most people have unbranded phones where its solely up to Microsoft to release official updates for their own Lumia phones.
  • In Europe you mean, in Chile all the phones are carrier branded and also no flagships only low ends ones, if my current phone an 820 don't get Windows 10 will go back to android,
  • Agreed!!! This puts Microsoft in the BS área, where what they say can't be taken seriously. If they didnt know for sure what devices would receive the update, maybe they shouldnt come out with that list. Its starting to look more like polititian promisses...
  • Whats your problem here?..
    1. MS is making W10M available for every WP8.1 running devices
    2.if carriers are not ready for providing the update, MS have opened the back door for us,so that we can grab the new OS
    3.Even though W10M is currently only 90% complete, the official release of RTM version will take away all the left bugs and OS will be fully functional.. And you dont have to worry about any bugs..
    Now temme.. What's the problem you see over here?
  • Would tou please copy-paste the part where it says MS is making W10M available for every WP8.1 running devices? Mine is running 8.1 Denim, carrier unlocked, its not on that list. I have no intentions of being a windows insider since that was never a requirement.
  • Right now it would be premature to jump to conclusions and assume that this is the final list, if anything it is most likely wave 1. Never the less this has been explained in the article; if Microsoft came out and categorically said this was the "final list" then I'd understand the ranting and raving, however they have not.    
  • Problem here is that Insider Program is for TESTING!!!!!!!!!!!! User will want a stable release. Yes, the RTM will be available in the Insinder program also, but tell me this: what happens when a new test build will be pushed through Insider App?? How can a user then update to the stable build only?? Stop offering the Insider Program as an excuse for MS's screw ups. A carrier unbranded phone should get the update officialy without any other back door solution! And as far as I know: 720,820,920,925,1020,1520 which are missing from the list, were also sold as Country Variant models, not only carrier branded.   
  • just to support your statement: http://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-claims-windows-10-upgrades-all-l...
  • Thx :)
  • They never said ALL. I am sure they never promised that the 810 would get the update. That phone never even got the Black update, or at least not 8.1. Some of the other OEM phones probably won't either, at least not initially. It really doesn't take much to set up being an Insider, but I do understand your point. It is not ideal, but it is better than Android.
  • That blame lands squarely on T-Mobile.
  • Is good but without apps up to date then gets worst
  • I thought EVERY Lumia running WP 8.1 would receive windows 10 mobile, not windows 10 mobile insider preview... i Have a L620 and it has always been on the list for a W10M official upgrade. And this also destroys the previous article about Nadella flooding the market with low-end cheap phones that would receive W10M... Most aren't now.
  • Every lumia running WP8.1 will recieve windows 10 mobile.. MS can only provide the supported OS for devices like 620.. The BIG RED BUTTON is with the carriers.. Go blame the carriers.. And thank MS for atleast providing a backdoor for the upgrade..
  • How can you be so sure that he has a carrier locked phone?
  • I have a carrier unlocked phone flashed with a Western Europe product code. So, western europe wont receive the update...???
  • No they wont B-)
  • Anyone running the latest build on a 920?  I installed it long ago but removed it as it was very buggy.
  • Why Microsoft lied for consumer??? This will irritate the most of users, users that not want have (or doesn't know) much work and be an Insider... The Microsoft promisses was that every Windows Phone 8.1 would recive the Windows 10, but at this cost?
  • Where is the cost? Install a free app, sign up, update, sign out. Done.
  • The cost is that the insider app will eventually install also BETA builds! Let's say after a month a new test build is pushed through the app, and a user who did not update before from WP8.1 wants to update his phone to the stable Win10 build. How will he do this?? Unless they modify the app with a new option for Stable Ring, I do not see how...
  • Wanted get market share and then use an fly swatter for tell us the same lie about by hardware don't support HDR or, newer things than newer and slower models supports only
  • So does this means there will be no update for Lumia 1520 in india ??? ( i bought 1520 last year).
  • so the 4gb are going to be updated but they dont know how yet?
  • It isn't acceptable that Microsoft ditches it's previous flagship for age by not providing official upgrades outside of the insider preview. That sounds insane... I'm not upgrading to an OS which doesn't have speech, inaccurate and buggy navigation apps and puts my extended warranty to the water...
  • It's only beta at this point...something of which will be more-than-resolved come RTM time. Or if not, wait a year and upgrade then. :)
  • I'm fine without Windows 10 for my Lumia 525.... Just today I down graded my OS to 8.1 from a service centre as windows 10 stuck my phone in such a position that recovery tool failed to work.... I would rather buy a new windows 10 phone..... With hello and continuum....
  • Guys, I'm really nervous.  Lumia 900 owner here.  Longtime reader of Windows Central, first time responder.  Really disappointed that I didn't get the Windows 8 or 8.1 updates, but I'm hedging my bets on getting a Windows 10 update this October.  Now, do I need to use the Zune desktop app to load Windows Insider onto my Lumia?  Will I even have the option for the fast ring updates?  I would just hate to put this baby to rest after years of reliable service.
  • Not sure if serious or being sarcastic.. lol. In the event of the former, the Lumia 900 is not getting Windows 10 Mobile in any shape or form as it is not running Windows Phone 8.1 but WP7.8. You could try installing the windows insider app and forcing the preview but you would most likely kill the phone in the process. Your better off upgrading to a new phone running W10M out of the box.      
  • Its mean lumia 730 didn't get official windows 10 update ever...????????
  • All WP 8.1 phones will, eventually.
  • It is strange that one of the original models the Lumia 635 is not on the list. However, I am having a problem with upgrading from 10149 to 10166 because of the battery save function. And I can't get back to Windows Phone 8.1
  • Windows Phone Recovery Tool will work, as a last resort.
  • That's my concern. I went ahead with the 635 since it was listed as being able to get 10. Now it isn't?
  • HTC 8x needs to be added on the list!!!
  • No
  • That phone is seriously 3+ years old. Outdated hardware and barely running 8.1...if that. Sweetheart, upgrade come the fall. You'll be happy you did
  • Need for HTC 8x
  • Sucks that the HTC One M8 isn't listed (yet), hate to see a great device get forgotten in the large sum of lumia devices. Still glad that I can use the Phone Insider app to get the update. 
  • Last time i check, Lumia 920, Lumia 925, Lumia 1020, and Lumia 1520 does have storage more than 4GB and also Microsoft's (former Nokia) FLAGSHIP phones..
  • My point is, why these models aren't part of their priority? My Dog, People purchased these phone expensively yet are being less prioritized..
  • With the Insider programme you get WP10 before official release. That's a good thing, right!
  • Look at the list. Notice it only has phones released by Microsoft Mobile. There's your answer.
    If you have a true Nokia phone, by the time WP10 comes - 2016 - you can just upgrade your phone to another Nokia phone if you're smart or a Microsoft phone if you're a masochist. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • The Lumia 930 is on the list and was released by Nokia. I bought the 930 with the confidence of it having that high quality build and beautiful design by Nokia (just like the 920 before).
  • The Lumia Icon is essentially a 930 wearing Verizon clothing and it isn't on the list. Having used the Developer Preview program with it during 8.1 testing I can tell you that running the Icon without a firmware update supporting that OS was a horrible experience. I've never understood why these OS updates weren't more like PC updates, whereby "drivers" specific to the hardware your device had were provided during installation to ensure proper functioning.  Doesn't it make more sense to have just one universal install package for any windows phone that would update the OS first and then subsequently inventory the device's hardware and flash any updates needed for it's specific components (radio's, video drivers, camera, etc.)? 
  • Actually the 930 was presented by Nokia but NOT released nor even manufactured by Nokia. If you take out the SIM tray and pull up the IMEI tray, you'll notice it says "Microsoft Mobile" in it. It was already produced and sold by Microsoft Mobile (which explains why I had to have it replaced 3 times due to hardware problems...something that never happened to me with a true Nokia device).
  • True...seen in my office 3 guys with the screen popping of the case without the phones being dropped...
  • It's not about the official OS bits. Its about the firmware that optimizes the device with it. I already figured my icon would not get it, or Verizon would take months in rolling it out. If I do the insider program to get it (which I already plan to) I know for a fact ill have to deal with battery drain and perhaps some other hardware issues. Wifi/BT connectivity etc. This is my beef.
  • At this point, it is not clear that a firmware update fixes any of that or if it's just early OS bugs.
  • Thank you Dan for ALL todays articles. They have been very helpful and clarified the whole Preview and Upgrade to WP10 situation. I will certainly be enrolling through the Insider programme for the RTM release. And, I can do this with confidence after reading these articles. Brilliant, cheers :)
  • Nice, glad to hear! Good luck.
  • The problem is non-technical people in countries like India have no idea that something like this exists. They think it as an extra effort that should not be there. They install updates when they get notification for it. They don't follow any tech sites. I am saying this from my experience.
  • "They don't follow any tech sites."
    Which makes you wonder if they really want an OS that they likely do not know exists.
  • Such people usually learn about it when news spreads from people to people. But, as I have seen, they don't really care whether they get it or not.
  • @tushar.. Dont include me in your selection of 'they' .. And there will be several thousands of tech savy indian customers who knows what to do.. And yeah, for those who dont know.. They dont need such an update..
  • This is exactly why I'm keeping the W10 preview on my Lumia 635. T-Mobile still hasn't released the Denim update for my device yet even though other carriers already have. -_-
  • I would prefer they would have said "only lumia x3x will receive the update". I've been waiting to see how W10M turns out to be to decide to buy a new phone. Well, Android M will be released at about the same time. Looking at Android phones right now, at least I know what to expect from that...
  • No one's stoping you.. :D
  • I will skip "official updates" completely. I kinda got used to not having to uninstall the ATT app crap they pack into the SW.
  • It's very painful... A simple thing go a difficult thing... So, it's my end...i never get the Windows 10
  • Want a good way to flash a carrier unlock product code and firmware? The right product code tou have to search on the net, but search for "windows Phone fiddler", and you'll get a real cool tutorial to flash the phone with the official tool.
  • I want a good way to flash a carrier unlock prodcut code and frimware for Android M.. What about that ha?
  • Tou were born stupid or are just working hard for that? Show me a Android device running a OFFICIAL beta version of Android M that WONT receive its final version? Braindead...
  • In your previous comment you were about to switch to Android M and suddenly you are back on business with WP, product code and firmware.. You are a professional WHINER .. And that makes you braindead, not me..
  • Tou thought I was going to run out the door to buy an Android phone that had an unreleased Android M OS? Tou have to be jocking, no one who knows how to write is that retarded... I showed a way for those who runs carrier locked phones to flash a carrier unlockd product code to upgrade to W10M when its launched. It seems you're the only one here that needs special attention to understand whats going on. Best of luck to you
  • Best of luck to you too with your whining capabilities.. :D
  • Well both of you made me dumber with your typos'
  • This doesn't make a lot of sense. Why wouldn't Microsoft release an official, final update of WM10 to phones where it works? Besides, they can even release it outside carrier for unlocked regional variants.
    Either MS is going crazy or this article is just speculation, it sure lacks a satisfying explanation of the matter.
  • This article doesnt even talk about unlocked regional variants.. I dont see Daniel saying that MS wont release W10M for such unlocked country variants.. I think you missed the point somwhere
  • This all sounds promising, except my phone (Sprint Samsung ATIV S NEO) is not yet on the list of supported phones for the preview. Some day maybe.
  • Stop whining and buy one of the new flagship phones this fall. Case closed.
  • Exactly! Upgrade.... Issue resolved.
  • I read the whole article, and then I hope this to be just a primary list of the first devices to get the update and later this year older unlock phones get it too in a official way without needing to use the Insider program. Gonna have my fingers cross for the next two months.
  • I hope to Yrrrr
  • Is my Lumia 730 never gets windows 10 update without windows insider app what the hell Microsoft... And what is the difference between 730 & 735 except wireless charging and 4G Network.....??????????
  • Same question...
  • The name? :D
  • The list doesn't include lumia730
  • Read other comments
  • Hey guys. Will I get Official W10M on my lumia 730? Pls answer ..
  • Why dont you just find out it by yourselfs.. Read the article dumbo.. Every device running WP8.1 will get W10M eventually.. If you are not geting it officially.. You will get it through insider program.. Happy?
  • Official world wide release may take some time because carriers have to test the new OS before making it available.. So either go with insider RTM build or WAIT for the availability of the official update in your region
  • Yup i know only because of 4g and Wireless charging...
  • Message Ancien where the hell Vibrate Only in Windows 10 Alarm
  • Beta
  • Not so fast. When looking at insider for phone information this glaring statement from MS says it is going away. Insider Preview expires on October 1, 2015 If you’re running Insider Preview, we'll send you notifications beginning on September 15, 2015 to remind you that it’s time to upgrade your phone to a newer version. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ph/windows/preview-faq-system-requirements-phone What does expire mean?  Don't know what you are going to upgrade to, probably have to roll back. Use AT&T as an example carrier. Four of their phones are still on Cyan. Are they suddenly going to jump up and pass througn 10 to all their phones, I don't think so,
  • Each preview build has an expiration date, this to force people to upgrade to the next version. Obviously there are risks involved with the preview however such risks have usually subsided to minor issues (with the odd major issue experienced by some here and there) as the builds progressed towards RTM.  
  • What the Hell You are Doing Microsoft just becoz of 735 got 4g nd wireless charging capability u ignores our 730 which is the best selling phone than 735.....
  • Whiners
  • Still not convinced by the entire argument. The 1520 pretty much has the same internals as the 930 and is probably one of the best selling high end phones for the OS. The argument for age and popularity doesn't fly there when the internals still match or exceed the optimal requirements for the phone. Sure it is "2 years old" but so is the 930 technically. Not just that, but this whole insider exercise can't replace the actual update process. The average user will miss out on the entire experience because believe it or not a lot of people don't even know such a thing exists. For us savvy internet and mobile users, this is a given (oh just get on Google and search insider preview!) but I doubt the vast majority of users have this know how. I get that they can't bypass carriers but the team shouldn't have cried out loud that "everyone will be getting the update" because, strictly speaking, it is not true. I also would like a finalized version that works with my 1520 without being pushed the latest beta update that has a good chance of breaking my phone. Hopefully, this stopping the preview thing works later on.
  • Look sooner or later the 1520 will experience the same fate as the venerable 920. Never the less the chances of it getting updated are greater than some models i.e 925 as it has the same internals as the 930. Regardless this is not a confirmed list as in the final list, it would be ridiculous if it was as there are insane number of Lumia models running WP8.1 - thanks to them (MS) & Nokia flooding the market with low end devices every other month.    
  • I understand that completely but surely, it's not that hard to make the list "officially" compatible with a phone that has the same internals as the 930. I'm not so against the fact that Microsoft cannot bypass the carriers entirely but more about the lofty claims the team has made that this update will completely bypass the carriers and will be available to all phones running 8.1. Only now the caveats are starting to come into light and it doesn't bode well for those claims. As a 1520 user, I'm not too stoked obviously. But you are right, there is only so long that Microsoft can be expected to keep these phones up to date.
  • The carriers need to get out of controlling the phone hardware business.  Consumers need phones that will work with any carrier and are free from any carrier bloatware that prevents the operating system from being upgraded.  The carriers can do this voluntarily, or we can pass a law.  Your choice.
  • It already exists. Buy an unlocked phone and use it anywhere you like. If only Microsoft would let unlocked phones get the update without any hiccups.
  • Having read a lot of the stuff here about MS, "Should do this officaily and not through a beta program" etc. Maybe MS should invent a new button on a web page, it could auto load the insider program, do the upgrade and then shut down and lose all traces of insider, maybe they could call it "Update to Windows 10".
  • MS should stick to their word, its as simple as that.
  • It's just annoying that for the preview builds non Lumia users will probably have to wait for the official thing before testing it out
  • Questions, If MS is selling the cityman/talkman without carriers, then will I still be able to receive a cityman/talkman with a plan like AT&T next through MS?
  • Wonder if ATT (or other carriers) will push WP10 to their supported phones in 2016.  16 is not a typo.
  • There's one thing I don't really understand from the article or the comments below. If I participate on the Windows Insider programm with my Lumia 820/920/925 etc.,  would I be able to report bugs? Will reported bugs from mentioned devices get fixed?
  • Yes it will..eventually.. Thats the soul purpose of insider program
  • Thats a good point.. If the non-official devices upgrade to 10 through insider, will specific device bugs be solved? Or at least looked at?
  • Why not? ;)
  • Consider the "Age" of the devices, just to be safe. You can hardly know for sure. They might just get fixing updates, or they maybe not getting specific ones, who knows?
  • What a load of rubbish. Expecting (and advocating) people should enroll in a program ostensibly for testing purposes to get updates is so ridiculous. Personally i have my doubts they will restrict official updates to this list but if they do, the platform really should just be shut down. And comparing the situation to android is just an easy cop out, with 2.5% marketshare (and falling) Microsoft cant afford to have another WP7 situation and have users jump ship. But maybe thats the best thing that coud happen, and WP can be finally laid to rest.   The amount of brown-nosing going on in these comments though is quite amazing.....
  • Yeah, I couldnt believe what I was reading. It's essentially saying, 'Hey, if you root your phone, you'll get the latest version of the OS! Microsoft wasn't lying after all! High five!!!' I mean, seriously?  
  • Does that mean there's a possibility (even if slight) I could get the flagships on Verizon. Or am I dead in the water. I dont mind buying straight out
  • So the issue becomes such that if you want Windows 10 Mobile RTM on a non-officially-supported device, you have to choose to enter (and quickly leave) the Insider program during the window in which RTM is the latest version, before any subsequent updates are rolled out. Depending on how frequent updates roll out at that time, this could be a couple days, or a couple weeks. Once you miss that window, it's an "unreleased" version or nothing.
  • We cant just be so sure about it.. May be MS will bring a new insider ring, only for the RTM version.. As simple as that.. Please dont make it complicated.. Some guys over here are already whining without understanding it properly :D
  • For example on Lumia 1020 win10 will work fine? Camera?
  • Just wait for it and findout by yourself :P
  • At this point, who would know for certain?
  • I am led to believe that I would only get Windows 10 Mobile on my Lumia 1020 if I partook in Windows Insider programme. That doesn't mean much in the end, since I'm looking to replace it with a new flagship, which is TBA, anyway.
  • So, when Apple has an update to iOS, do carriers get to decide how the update rolls out and do they get to decide if only certain phones get it, or do all the iPhone 6s get it?
  • I believe all supported iphone models receive the update, carrier unlocked or not. Apple has a diferent strategy and position in the market. And also a hell of a lot of less phone models. Supposedly MS was also trying to get a similar approach with W10M, but I believe it will be extremly hard to get carriers to do that. Maybe only on a few countries.
  • Very Cool, Dan, do you know how updates for Win 10 Mobile will work? If I buy a 950 (Talkman) when it comes out from Microsoft directly, not a carrier, will I get updates directly from Microsoft? (Like Apple) Or will I need to be an Insider to always get updates? I'm an Android user now, but I'm turned off by all the security flaws, and I'd like to try Continuim and Hello, so I'm looking forward to the 950.
  • Yes, or I should hope so. The updates will come a lot sooner versus carriers anyhow and directly from Microsoft.
  • I'm not from the US, but i do own a lumia from Verizon. That means if i don't stay with the insider program I'll be at their mercy waiting for the update as my phone is an 822.
  • Anyway Microsoft will never change. They said that all the Lumia will be upgraded. Now the list appear to be limited and the 4Gb devices are probably excluded. The surface RT is not upgraded. If they would be lying a bit less people would be happier.
  • Don't count on it :)) Do you really think that if this list would have been shown at the start of the Insider program, would so many users have joined? Think, all of us who joined were practicaly beta testers for free. It was all a strategy to test for free an OS, to limit costs in case it will fail. How many users of devices not in this list would have been eager to involve if this list would have been visible from the start??? Far less I tell you for sure. Again we were guineea pigs for MS such as we were with WP7...
  • So no more RAW shooting with Lumia 1020 on Windows 10?
  • As crappy as the new Windows Camera app is, don't expect to have the same extra quality photos :(
  • MS needs to clarify the reason why 1520 is not on the list of the first devices to get WM10 . Age of the device shouldn't be the deciding factor , apple will still update their 2 year old device with some missing fearures
  • The reason is because Windows 10 is it fuck...ed totally. On LinkedIn many companies and other speak about collapse this final version this OS and I'm agree. I don't want version 10 even for free.
  • Lol. You are going to LinkedIn to get tech news??? Nobody is talking about Windows collapsing. In fact, the majority of news is positive.
  • 50 million devices plus with just one month. Apple hardly hit 25 million within 3 months. It'd be a stretch to call Win10 dead in the water ;)
  • But what do owners of non-lumias do? I tried the insiders app on my BLU Win HD and it's a no go...
  • When I downloaded WM10 on my 520, it shows as Denim. It seems to stay as Cyan on a 920 I put it on
  • I need Denim, I have a Lumia 1520 with black update (yes Black) and cannot record in 4K in Windows 10 Mobile.
  • And here's me with my poor Lumia 928 and it not even mentioned....insider app it is!!! :P
  • What, if any relationship is there between the Windows Preview for Developers (WPD) and the Windows Insider Program (WIP)?
  • So, basically, the same WP7 to WP8 abandonment.
  • I hate it when Windows Central writes excuse-articles for Microsoft.
  • I "upgraded" to W10 via the Insiders program since AT&T stated specifically that their Lumia 830s were not going to get W10 support. Since this phone is my main and only driver I was a little reluctant at first to join. However, I jumped into the Insider program with the latest build. While there are a few bugs present, I can live with them until such time the bugs are removed. Translation, I'm glad I jumped in. This is a perfect way to get the latest OS updates without relying on the stinking carriers!!
  • Is mango out yet? Nodo was disappointing
  • Because iPhones are glam phones and in many countries are status symbol? And Microsoft isn't any brand that be status symbol or glam phone?
  • Whoooiosh!
  • Bullshit... The 1520 is left of that list. F u
  • Did you read the article? If so, maybe your reading comprehension is just lousy.
  • Daniel maybe Microsoft should go the mnvo route (google-fi)
  • oh no! you just revealed my secret plan! no kidding why cant people see common sense here, I got 8.1 as soon as it went live, and a year later I was just shocked to see users that waited for Verizon to release it + that pseudo-denim(I have a 928) and now I will do the same, as soon as they release the RTM and announce a final date, I will enroll to the fast ring and be done with it
  • Daniel, what makes me nervous is Microsoft's statement regarding the required OS to receive the upgrade: "Only phones running Lumia Denim (OS version 8.10.14219.341, or higher) can take advantage of the upgrade to Windows 10. By keeping your phone software updated you can get fresh new features and improvements, and resolve many issues. You can check your current software release from Settings > extras+info, and the current OS version from Settings > about > more information. Read more about Lumia Denim Update." http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/mobil...topic=FA144485. Our 830 has OS#: 8.10.14176.243, so it seems that this AT&T variant of the 830 will not receive Win10.
  • Look again that 830 says denim
  • Yeah...major oops here:      http://www.phonearena.com/news/Microsoft-all-Lumias-running-Windows-Phon...      
  • And they can withthe insider app
  • The same thing happened with desktop W10. If you didn't run all updates on your W7 or W8 machine, you wouldn't get the automatic prompt to upgrade to 10. You could still upgrade normally with the download or join the insider program, however. I did so on my desktop when I reinstalled 7, just simply downloaded and installed 10 without waiting for updates to run repeatedly.
  • What you are really saying is:
    "Don't buy a phone from a carrier." For sure, carriers only know and follow one and only one interest: their own.
    If in doubt, they'll let you down. That's a sure bet. This carrier-phone thing should stop.
    They try to tie you up and lock you in with their "subsized" phones.
    At the end of the day you pay the full retail price for a phone
    and pay the phone off month for month as you would you pay off a credit. So why not shun the carrier and buy the phone that you like on credit
    on the open market - you likely may save money
    and don't get bugged from the carrier that a new phone is due etc. etc.
    The carrier couldn't care less about what phone you use and that you need a new one,
    they just want to lock you for one more period by selling you a new phone.
  • I feel abbandoned to be honest, they lied to us again. Could be my last wp...
  • See ya
  •   4 GB are futile, 512 MB DRAM as well. Supporting those devices simply incorporates problems that will pop up in future 
    when trying to keep future versions of Windows 10 aligned with
    crappy old hardware. Let's get rid of crappy old hardware now and do not limit future options.  
  • This ^^^^^ 1000x over. Anyone with a device that has less than 1GB of RAM holds back innovation of WM10. People.....UPGRADE! It's not worth your time.
  • The whole thread here says a lot about Microsoft's misguided past strategy.
    MS needs to get its act together. Now.  
  • I just hope that my Samsung Ativ S gets the update via the insider. Its an old phone now, but it still works great and should have the hardware to support the update.
  • I'm sure it would work great with 10, however it's unlikely that Samsung will bother, based on their history with updates.
  • So as a 1020 user from the uk, would you jump on the preview program for W10M now or wait awhile?
  • If you want to lose the Lumia Camera app..go ahead and be stuck with the crappy Windows Camera..
  • So the 1020 will eventually recive the "offical" update correct?
  • Without carrier subsidies, I think the average phone user won't be buying new phones every two years.  Mobile phone market is maturing fast. It will be like the PC upgrade lifecycle where users (I guess they would be called enthusiasts today) upgraded their desktop/laptop every 18 months to 2 years in the 1980's and 1990's during the 8088 through Pentium period.  By the time P3/P4 and Core/Core 2 came around, people didn't feel the need to upgrade as often.  Now the upgrade cycles are even longer in this Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake era.
  • Without carrier subsidies, I think the average phone user won't be buying new phones every two years.  Mobile phones are maturing fast. It will be like the PC upgrade lifecycle where users (I guess they would be called enthusiasts today) upgraded their desktop/laptop every 18 months to 2 years in the 1980's and 1990's during the 8088 through Pentium period.  By the time P3/P4 came around, people didn't feel the need to upgrade as often.  Now the upgrade cycles are even longer in this Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake era.
  • My920 still lucky
  • And what about the HTC and Samsung wp users?
  • You'll have look for news from your OEM, or call and ask them.
  • Beta testing is not over.. I for one would never enroll my daily driver for beta program. If no official release for L1520 then WP8.1 with Lumia Camera is here to stay. I wonder if this will kill the promise of universal apps for good?
  • New Universal apps will work only on W10, so if you stay on 8.1 mostly you won't receive much updates for apps..not that now any apps receive any significant updates but again...
  • When 10 RTM comes out, then you could join the Insider program, update, and get the stable RTM. If you don't want insider builds after that, just opt out until the next big stable update.
  • How stable is the Lumia Cyan 635 with Win10 installed?
  • Well this only confirms the need of a flagship phone / Icon replacement
  • Well, what about the Blu Win Jr LTE? It has 4GB of storage and one of the sale points is that is Windows 10 ready.
  • I believe BLU said they would update it, but I'm not sure. You'd have to check with BLU.
  • Preciate it Dan but I have to say, I went thorough a lot to get the preview on my 1520. Got it on there finally but newer builds forced me to leave my 1520 at home.  Microsoft has made the call on this phone IMHO and it shows with this latest build. It shuts down for no reason. Taking pictures cause the phone to shut down and put the battery to less than 5 percent. If you run the game Red Herring you're looking at a hard reset. Guaranteed. My HTC M8 running WinXM and it works like a charm. I miss the Lumia magic but I think the 1520 is 8.1 and done.
  • What about the HTC 8X? Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Lumai 520 are eligible
  • I can't understand it; what is "newer" about the Lumias in that list over the 1520 other than their build date? The hardware inside those Lumias pale by more than a small margin. As much as a general Microsoftie as I am, I have to call bullshit. No matter how technically correct, it doesn't change anything, I know. Dual core packing 1gb ram powered devices apparently have to trump a 2gb ram packing 2.2ghz quad-core device because purple bananas. Now I get it!
  • What is wrong with L1020?it have a unique camera last two years...
  • Sorry about the second post, but I think people are upset because just in January of this year:   http://www.phonearena.com/news/Microsoft-all-Lumias-running-Windows-Phon...   T
  • I will repeat myself. If MS would have shown a list such as this back then, far less users would have joined the Insider program, and by this far less free beta testers.
  • So for those not on the list and therefore receiving a version of the OS not sanctioned by the carriers, will MMS work or remain broken? Not having MMS really sucks
  • lumia uk facebook said the following regarding offical release Microsoft Lumia UK Hi,  Rob is correct. Only phones running Lumia Denim (OS version 8.10.14219.341, or higher) can take advantage of the upgrade to Windows 10.
  • :)) this is not funny, but I cannot think about a similar situation when WP 8.0 came out, they were still promoting Lumia 900 although it was not upgradable to 8.0.  Comparing Lumia UK statement to THIS seems quite different. Maybe this is MS's way to gain trust from potential users...sorry for being sarcastic but it's the truth. Lies lies lies!! I also took the bait with WP7, then with Surface RT and again..now with my Lumia 1520 which seems to be outy of the so called "official list". Anyway this is my last WP, I am tired of MS playing arround with my cash..I'll keep my 1520 'till it gets old enough and apps will indeed stop working because it is a great phone, simply great. But never will I trust my money into Microsoft again after this fiasco.  
  • Hey ! Can you tell me if I'm upgrade my lumia 620 through insider program then have any thing problem ?
  • Wht about my lumia 1320?? Can i upgrade to windows 10
  • Nicely written article..
  • What about my Lumia 920 ?? Can I upgrade to official windows 10
  • You compell me to comment. You are a damn good writer. You always write a balanced article. Great job and thank you. ​
  • Agree
  • Mine is Lumia 520 can I get the official version ?
  • just one question,why is the 735 on the list and the 730 isn't ? aren't they praticly the same phone ? with only the addition of the 4G ? the 730 was realesed at the end of 2014.it hasn't been even a year,and it is not on the list. i don't get it.
  • Beautiful, straightforward, to-the-point article and commentary. D. Rubino, you've done it again. You are an awesome writer :)
  • L 520 has 8gb of storage and it's still not in the list!
  • RAM is only 512 MB look in extras+info in settings =/
  • I really don't get why people are so fed up with "Microsoft lied!" Here's the deal: Tech changes. There's no real way to say how upgrades go. And quite frankly? I'm not keeping my phone when WM10 launches. It's being traded in on a brand new phone the day it launches. Phones don't follow the tech rules because they change CONSTANTLY. Upgrades SHOULD be done at least every two years because of battery life, outdated hardware, and better features. I get if you prefer to keep your phone, but because manufacturers and firmware makers alike push for the 2-year cycle, it shouldn't come as a surprise that your phone just might be outdated after that timeframe. Solution? Upgrade when Windows 10 Mobile is launched. Issue resolved...on all fronts.
  • I astonished when I read this article that Lumia 1520 highest variant will upgrade windows 10 and other variant also, in this article those variant are already upgrade windows 10 through insider such variant would not updated official windows 10, only those variant are not upgrade windows 10 through insider or any other mode such variant will upgraded official version. But I have seen in the list that most of the variant are also upgraded through insider then why these variant are in list. Its very clear that Microsoft want that their customers will purchased windows phone who are in list, they only promote their latest variant and forget old variant. Lumia 1520 is top variant even though they would not in favour to update official windows 10. As mentioned in this article that those Lumia are 2 years old would not upgrade official released, age is not ground for thi, this is totally deceive to the customers who are currently using these old mobile and I am totally disappointed with their decision. I hope they will think about this and will released official released windows 10 to all the Lumia phones.
  • Learn some English dude...
  • This sounds more like: we will not officially update the old devices (even though we said we will do it) but who wants an unoptimized for the gadget install, it can be done through this insiders program. I think we all know that at least 1020 needs special "treatement" with it's camera and all. But then again, the 1020 was always on a beta system cause well, wp is on beta since ever. Maybe the next system will bring some stability to this neverending core "reformulations"... I expected more from ms. but if i think more about it, this is nothing in front of how they took apart a once great company, left it's employes on the street and took it's policy to the landfill. The closer the days of 10 are the more i'm gettin' sick of ms. Even tough i love this interface, Blackberry is starting to sparkle more and more into my eyes. Just cause it reminds me how can a company do bussiness without being a total jurk!
  • The L435 is getting the update but my L635 isn't? WTF... I got the 1GB RAM version btw, and 8GB storage. It's faster than my L640 was when I had it. Isn't that enough? ... Thanks a lot MS. <_<
  • These below list are Lumia build windows 10 through Preview development •Lumia 1020
    •Lumia 1320
    •Lumia 1520
    •Lumia 530
    •Lumia 530 Dual Sim
    •Lumia 535
    •Lumia 620
    •Lumia 625
    •Lumia 630
    •Lumia 630 Dual Sim
    •Lumia 635
    •Lumia 636
    •Lumia 638
    •Lumia 720
    •Lumia 730
    •Lumia 730 Dual SIM
    •Lumia 735
    •Lumia 810
    •Lumia 820
    •Lumia 822
    •Lumia 830
    •Lumia 920
    •Lumia 925
    •Lumia 928
    •Microsoft Lumia 430
    •Microsoft Lumia 435
    •Microsoft Lumia 435 Dual SIM
    •Microsoft Lumia 435 Dual SIM DTV
    •Microsoft Lumia 532
    •Microsoft Lumia 532 Dual SIM
    •Microsoft Lumia 640 Dual SIM
    •Microsoft Lumia 535 Dual SIM
  • •Lumia 1020
    •Lumia 1320
    •Lumia 1520
    •Lumia 530
    •Lumia 530 Dual Sim
    •Lumia 535
    •Lumia 620
    •Lumia 625
    •Lumia 630
    •Lumia 630 Dual Sim
    •Lumia 635
    •Lumia 636
    •Lumia 638
    •Lumia 720
    •Lumia 730
    •Lumia 730 Dual SIM
    •Lumia 735
    •Lumia 810
    •Lumia 820
    •Lumia 822
    •Lumia 830
    •Lumia 920
    •Lumia 925
    •Lumia 928
    •Microsoft Lumia 430
    •Microsoft Lumia 435
    •Microsoft Lumia 435 Dual SIM
    •Microsoft Lumia 435 Dual SIM DTV
    •Microsoft Lumia 532
    •Microsoft Lumia 532 Dual SIM
    •Microsoft Lumia 640 Dual SIM
    •Microsoft Lumia 535 Dual SIM
  • Hello
  • Agreed. I always enjoy reading Dan's articles.
  • What about perview for developers program?
  • Few things in this article left unanswered. The phones that are not on the list can get w10 through insiders. Great and after that can unenroll out of it, Sweet but what about the later updates that come to official w10 releases. will they have to enroll back to get it or will MS be happy to OTA to everyone? There are devices not on the list due to some or the other limitiation be it age, the hardware or any other reason that can get the W10 through insiders, What about the future updates for these? will they have to do like mentioned above? Ofcourse the users have the option of LSRT for roll back to 8.1 in Lumia phones but the grey imports that have been flashed to the current CV ROM looses will revert back to the original CV rom that it shipped with!! The method of downloading roms from nokia server doesnt work anymore!! what then? If W10 is not affecting the Firmware and can be installed from Lumia Black all the way to Denim on different phone models and can run as a normal phone would, why does it need to be tested on different devices the OS is the same right like on different configuration on the desktops, laptops and surface?
  • Hi. Upon reading this article I tried using the Insider app yesterday. Seemed to be working until my phone crushed. It now only switches for a few seconds and shows a pair of gears, then after a minute or so, it switches off. How can I fix it. Please heelp.
  • While it saddens me that my brave 1520 won't get the update officially the Insider Build is not a bad Choice after the Release of the OS.
    So I can remember that it was told, that all Lumias would get the Windows 10 update, I bought my 1520 in the Stores It's not bound to a carrier. I thinks it's not the best way to deal with customers to say "nah your phone is to old" I mean the 1520 was a flagship at it's time and I bought it last year for example.
    I will switch to the InsiderBuild but still it's kinda disappointing.
  • So no official for 32gig 1520? Well well well.. i got 8x 4gb and no guarantee for official. Some said, every single lumia will recieve w10m, black magic Microsoft. and every single phone in my country is unlocked, no something called bullshit OEM-Carrier relationship.
  • If it is available with Windows Insider then why not without it? I mean the non-carrier phones.
  • Admittedly current preview on my 925 is super annoyingly slow, freezing and generally unusable, compared to the same build on 930. But once again we see Microsoft dropping the ball on previous generation phones. Sad
  • They drop the ball on high models also, because "of age"...lol 1520 has the same HW as 930 and higher than all the others from the list...This is the quality of service delivered by MS ever since that indian guy came as CEO
  • Is Lumia 730 included in first list of windows 10 upgrade
  • What about lumia 520?
  • I'm using Lumia 920   Country variant in India.. will i recieve Windows10 update without being part of Insider program?
  • And finaly,when is release finaly upgrade?I have l535 with w10.
  • Microsoft should do what they said before all windows 8 phone will be upadted wid windows 10.
  • Now I'm confused... If my Lumia 720 is a "country variant", that is - not carrier-specific, will I get the WM10 via an official update or will I have to go to the insider program to get it?  Thanks for your input.
  • I can't wait to give Windows 10 mobile a go on my Lumia 925. The only reason I haven't so far is that, under the Insider Preview, Cortana is only available in the US. I'm in the UK, and know I can change settings, but I want to remain in the UK Locale, and am hoping, at some point, Cortana will be added for UK to the Insider preview, or perhaps the Lumia 925 will get the official update....
  • I like the fact that every writer at windowscentral is now deleting my comments from all posts. This shows the respect and power of truth. Truth wins.
  • Microsoft is still the best disgusting company! Apple still supporting the iPhone 4 and 4s but it's"old" phone...so if someone have any "old" Lumia and any non Lumia device they doesn't deserve the new stuff? Disgusting!
  • I like the fact that every writer at windowscentral is now deleting my comments from all posts. This shows the respect and power of truth. Truth wins,.
  • This in not acceptable! Lumia 1520 has the same hardware as 930. What happens if a users that has a phone not on that list does not want to continue to receive preview builds and wants to stay on public build? as it is stated here he won't be able to do that. So Lumia 625,720,820,920,925,1020,1520 users are being left out...very nice play Microsoft...I wonder how many of you guys out there will ever trust Microsoft and it's so called promisses.
  • So sad!
  • Am i the only one who upgraded  his Lumia 1020 frim Denim/8.1 to 10 through fast ring and saw that i rolled back to CYAN update? Are they serious?
    Do they believe that Cyan is enough for the new OS? Because the statement that we may not need firmware seems to be wrong. !!!!
    When i rolled back, to 8.1, i got Denim again! PLUS the vodafone logo which had not when i bought the phone from ...a shop!!!
    And i need to remove it.... how to please?
  • What a load of apologistic nonsense. The likes of the 1520 were flagship devices less than two years ago and some folks will have paid the equivalent of £450+ for it. For all its faults Apple still offer updates to iOS several years after launch (I've got a four year old iPad 2 that's running the latest version fine). Just because this is the norm in Androidland doesn't mean it's okay in Windowsville, and being forced to jump through hoops in the insider programme is not a satisfying solution from a company with the turnover and number of staff as Microsoft. Very, very poor.
  • Unless WinBeta is wrong, their article is more clear and explicit than this one: that list of phones is for the FIRST WAVE of official W10M final version. Eventually, till the end of the year other phones will follow, except the 4GB ones. So, no need to enroll in the insider program unless you want to receive it before than the official release. If that's the truth then I'm OK with that.
  • It would seem that things are starting to reach a moot point.  Microsoft I feel has little to nothing to do with all this.  Here is why: 1- If you remember there was an article that came out with Microsoft saying that all WP 8.1 devices will receive the upgrade early this year. 2- Microsoft also stated that they are going to handle all their updates from now on and not go through carriers. 3- It is a known fact that being in America under an American telecom is savage for windows phones. Now, lets look at the facts and I'll use my device as an example. My NOKIA LUMIA 1020 is a fabulous phone and well rounded (pun intended). My device has kicked the shit photography wise of every phone that has come out to date (@chiefalpha - on instagram, i hashtag my photos with the device I take).  In addition my phone is usually used to take photos when I go out clubbing and because of that I am the first to run out of juice. As far as updates are concerned this is an AMERICAN carrier issue.  My phone was bought with the "Cyan" update right out the box and March of this year I recieved the "Denim" update and things worked like a charm.  I was disappointed by the fact that camera bells and whistles where not included but that is besides the point. I spoke with alot of people who own a lumia and every single one of them have a denim updated phone through the upgrade.  Meanwhile my friends in North America were still on cyan and some still on black. In addition the Lumia 640 and 640XL were already selling like hot cake here in Tanzania by MAY 2015. Given the facts i stated at the top, it would seem Microsoft is taking on a new approach by handling all their updates themselves instead of carriers because of the AMERICAN telecoms.  It is important to note that Africa has the largest smartphone usage in comparison to the rest of the world. Of course Android dominates this sphere. This is due to the fact that most Africans would go online through telecommunication companies and not broad band.  In Africa telecom is KING! Interestingly enough VODACOM EUROPE and VERIZON (yes they are the same people) were bailed by VODACOM AFRICA simply because of vouchers. Banking is done with smartphones in Africa than actual banks.  Surfing the web is done with telecoms in Africa not broadband companies..... I see i side tracked a little bit but my point is at the end of this all, mainly America would face the hardship of being under their telecom company and enjoying windows phone.  That is why Microsoft is going to handle the updates and not the carriers.  This work around via technical preview is an American problem mainly.  
  • Windows 10 Mobile truely loks awesome, I may switch from Android someday. 
  • Do it now!
  • Offtopic: Anyone knows how to edited Rich Caputered photos on Windows 10 Mobile latest build?
  • Honestly, my 8XT is over 2 years old now, on a carrier that really has zero interest in WP (Sprint) so if it works out that I can get WM10 on it, that's just a bonus.  Its been the little engine that could, and continues to this day to be rock solid with great battery life.   Here's hoping the Insider Preview will support it, but I'm fully expecting it to be put out to pasture.
  • Another typical rant by Daniel, no solid proof, no evidence, just rubbish
  • W10M Insider Preview expires on October 1, 2015 http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-faq-system-requiremen...
  • note: commenting on this site with Edge browser is flawed.. reloads pages each time. I have loaded Win10Mobile​ on my Lumia 1520 several times, only to roll back to 8.1 each time. (primarily keyboard usability issues). after this article, I decided to give Win10Mobile another shot. I must admit, it's very nice. No issues so far whatsoever. Now, I don't game... but everything else I do, just works. I hope that I continue to receive updates once the Insider Preview expires on Oct 1 2015.
  • What the he** is this? Will my Lumia 1020 not be officially updated to W10?
  • Windows Mobile 6 upgrade left salt in out throat Windows Phone 7 upgrade the same Windows Phone 8 /8.1 almost the same Windows 10 Mobile seams to keep the path. I will just use my Samsung ativ s till it dies or i kill it for a new one, but depending on manufacturers updates is to me a waist of energy and can no more afford to run beta Os on any of my high end phones.    
  • Why not change the name from "Phone Insider" or "Insider Preview" to "Windows Update" then, and then put optional checkboxes in the app for opting in to receiving beta-status early releases of OS builds?  There are many people who would like to have W10 but are not comfortable with beta testing on their one and only daily driver phone.  Mocrosoft promised these people they would get W10 on their phones, and did not say they would have to be beta testers in order to get it.
  • I am using Windows 10 on my laptop and I love it. Having said that, I am happy with Windows 8.1 on my Lumia 720. The only downside is that I wont be able to install universal apps.
  • Very bad the 4gb users are missing out. Very bad.
  • I was never that worried about my phone not being on the list, especially after the way they handled the PC version. I'd just assumed I'd get the RTM version through Windows Insider like I did with PC. As long as Insiders can continue to get updates after they stop releasin gpreview builds (don't see why we wouldn't) then all is well.
  • Agree and disagree...  Sure if you want the feature set for the most part, you can use the Preview program and you WILL get Windows 10 Mobile. And with some hacks or mods, I am sure 4gb phones with an SD card of a good size will be able to get it as well. Look over at XDA if your really desperate to have it now but, I would bet you will have to hard reset to do it. Dont agree on the firmware. Will Hey Cortana come back to the ICON on 10 ? WIll the battery actually get better ? Will blue-tooth notififcations get better ? In the preview program in the past on the ICON, when we were talking 8.1 and waiting forever. After getting the update, Hey Cotrana worked (did not work on the preview), Battery got almost 40% better and for the most part the it was faster and smoother. Then we didn't get the blue-tooth update till the firmware came down (hardware). So, yes, you can get Windows 10 Mobile, but, if a good % of your hardware features dont work 100% and battery does not las through out the day, what is the point ? The firmware is about optimization and carrier network updates and both a pretty important to MOST people
  • I know that if i can not get official update for my Lumia 925 I will stop supporting WP. I've doing this so hard in padt years, bit that will stop.
  • will Lumia 1320 get official version of Windows 10
  • It's a well written article, but in my experience the phone's battery life takes a major hit with insider previews.  I think the story would be different with the firmware (fingers crossed). I think part of the problem is the eternal wait and having to go through an unofficial method, after the announcement of the upgrade for all 8.1 devices. I'm sure it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of longtime Windows Phone owners.
  • Daniel - good article, but I think you shoud have waited until it was closer to 9/15/15 before publishing it. I have a L520 and it is not on the list, but I understand that means my phone is not in the first set to get the upgrade, but it will come later. There is a lot of MS hate in the comments to this article, but we don't know everything that MS will be doing to support all of us with W10M. W10M Insider code is not ready for all of us yet, we should see what MS does.  
  • Since Verizon isn't going to carry the Lumia 950, they better allow the Windows 10 update to their existing line of Windows Phones.
  • I've enjoyed owning and using my humble 520 for over two years but I'm moving on to Android soon - several apps that I want are not, and never will be, available. It's still a good phone but the fact that I'm not getting Windows 10 has finally persuaded me.
  • Even with Windows Insider I can't get Windows 10 anymore.