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Microsoft rumored to launch Surface hardware revisions this fall, new devices in 2017

It appears Microsoft is looking to launch new Surface hardware this year after all if internal schedules are to be believed. No longer is Microsoft planning wait for Redstone 2 to launch new Surface hardware in early 2017, with Mary Jo Foley reporting that we could see updated hardware launch at an event in the fall.

Windows Central can confirm that this appears to be the case, with internal schedules pointing toward October for a Windows 10 hardware announcement, similar to last year's #Windows10 Devices Event in New York.

Sources say Microsoft is planning to introduce minor revisions to its current Surface line, meaning it's unlikely we'll see a Surface Phone or the newly rumored Surface All-In-One device this year. There may also be a Band 3 as current levels of Band 2 stock seem to be on the decline. Currently, the Microsoft Band is the only consumer-grade hardware that is not running Windows 10 in some form. It would seem likely that Microsoft would want to align it with the rest of its consumer line for developer and API continuity.

On the Surface AiO subject, Daniel Rubino is now hearing that Microsoft is exploring at least two versions of the Surface AiO with one being a more traditional AiO computer, and the other being an accessory/big screen for Continuum. Other details surrounding this device are still pretty scarce, but with Windows 10 'Redstone 2' having a large focus on Mobile, it isn't surprising to hear Microsoft is planning new and improved hardware to compliment Windows 10 Mobile's star feature, Continuum.

2017 is where we'll see new Surface hardware launch although it's unclear now whether that will happen alongside Redstone 2's launch, which was originally planned. Perhaps Microsoft could release new Surface devices alongside Redstone 3. I hear that internally Microsoft is targeting Summer 2017 for a Windows 10 'Redstone 3' launch, which would be the perfect time to release new Surface hardware before the back-to-school season. Mary Jo Foley appears to be hearing that new Surface hardware with Kaby Lake processors won't launch until Fall 2017 however.

Microsoft is planning to flight Redstone 2 builds to Windows Insiders very soon, with the latest internal builds being compiled in the 148xx range. With Surface hardware revisions planned for the fall, and a much larger Surface device launch in 2017, as well as Redstone 2 and Redstone 3 updates for Windows 10, it's going to be a very busy year.

What are you hoping to see from Microsoft this fall? Let us know below.

Zac Bowden
Zac Bowden

Zac Bowden is a Senior Editor at Windows Central. Bringing you exclusive coverage into the world of Windows 10 on PCs, tablets, phones, and more. Also an avid collector of rare Microsoft prototype devices! Keep in touch on Twitter: @zacbowden.

204 Comments
  • I'm very curious what sorts of things they could be adding in redstone 2 and 3 other than messaging everywhere. W10 and W10M seem very feature complete. Now maybe some more UI tweaks might be in order
  • A lot of UI changes need to be made on Windows 10 Mobile and I think Xbox One (not 100% on X1 UI since I haven't got one) to be more consistent with Windows 10. Windows 10 uses transparency effects for pretty much all OS features (everything outside of apps). I suspect we'll see these effects come to Mobile in RS2 or RS3. EDIT: I think we'll also see a lot of further API improvements in RS2 and RS3. We know a UWP File Explorer is in the works and that's something Microsoft really can't afford to mess up. It needs to be as functional and as easy to use as the current file explorer and I don't think that's possible with the current API's judging by the apps we currently have. I mean we still haven't got a decent archiving tool that's as functional and quick as 7zip ;-:
  • Xbox One needs (if it's possible) HUGE improvements in performance IMO. If they can do that on current hardware I'd really love to see it become a priority. I think performance has gotten worse on the newer Dashboard, just try pressing the Xbox Guide button on the controller to go home, if it works it can be literally seconds of delay before it actually takes you back. I'm not saying it's unusable, but it's frustrating at times and I think it mostly needs optimising, it feels akin to a cheap tablet running Windows 10 (I have a HP Stream 7 w/ 1GB RAM that I hardly use because it's pretty crap) and when you are using decent performing desktop PC's and the Surface Pro line for mobile computing you notice how lower end hardware and the Xbox One raw noticeably sluggish. Thing is with Xbox, you don't really until Scorpio have the chance to buy something more premium - I think it's mostly down to the dashboard itself than the Xbox hardware right now
  • It is beta. It has many telemetry functions that can slow down the system, The final build will be surely much faster.
  • Beta has nothing to do with it, I'm not in the preview program and I have the same issue with the guide button.
  • You get 6 Upvotes for a comment that is just plain wrong and just assuming stuff. This reflects how this community does not care about facts and just wants to hear how Windows is the best. Those are the fans Windows doesn't need because they will not put pressure where it should be.
  • I am sorry, but you made an answer on ASSUMING that I am that I am assuming. It makes you a very worthy and knowledgable commenter.
  • He just told you it's not because of telemetry because it's not the preview. My XBOX also slow and it's not because of the telemetry. You were just proved wrong three times by now.
  •   The problems on the regular version have nothing to do with the problems on the preview version, whether they are the same or not. It is basically like you have some problem on Windows 95 and on Windows 10. Even if their description is the same they can't be related in any way. Also I am not saying that the final version will be fast enough or anything. I just say that it will be faster than the preview version and if you have the problems with the performance in the preview version it might not be a problem at all. All of that stands. Now whether you have some problem or not I have no idea, but this is something that's just a part of the general developer rules and you can't say I'm wrong when it isn't even something I say but some generally accepted practices.
  • I was having the same frustration and even bought a Roku 3 because I was fed up. Then a coworker suggested I reset the console. That actually worked pretty good. I used the option to keep apps so I didn't hasn't to resign into Netflix and amazon. Performance is much better now.
  • I had it with YouTube on my Roku 3 device.  I bought a Roku 4 and I was extremely pleased with the performance of that.
  • I agree. UI and UX for Mobile needs a great deal of work. I'm relatively happy with the features, but not with the flow of moving between things you are working on, interacting with text fields, selecting text, performance, Bluetooth, and battery. I think a huge amount of attention must be made to the features that people interact with the most... text entry, selection, and editing, including auto entry for email address and password fields, incorporating the Office grammar and spelling engines directly into the OS, etc. It must be a pleasure to use.
  • I agree! Microsoft should start polishing things up on things that involves constant interction, things that affects the user experience from broad to tiny details. Features are useless if a user find it hard to use, let alone being enjoyable. Users needs an OS that enables them to get things task done easily and the environment should be pleasant to work on.
  • Even in it's current state, W10M is still easier to use and find things than iOS and android.
  • Any serious person would just facepalm reading this comment. It's like saying "My green tea is the best in the world", which might be very different for a lot of people and most likely is just wrong. I could ask you to name some examples, but probably an Android fan could name a lot of examples aswell and in the end you wouldn't have a winner. In fact, the winner would always be the Android fan, when comparing the amount of users on each platform.
  • I thought I remember MS saying that they would want to phase out existing control panel for a more modern one. That would take a long time. I fear that many options would be cut though. Just look at the modern print settings compared to the traditional print settings (miles apart).
  • They're slowly migrating all the settings from the Control Panel to the new Settings app (which I like more than CP for some reason) and it takes a long time.
  • This is why I'm afraid about moving to UWA with File Explorer, that would be a disaster really. I don't even think having two File Explorer is an elegant approach, it will even just cause confusion and uncessary complexity of having a use to choose when it's way more simple to only deal with one. If they seriously want a UWA File Explorer, they should just develop it internally and let the UWP catches up to same flexibility and capability as Win32 File Explorer. Keep it until its truly ready, not just for the sake of Universal App principle which doesn't make sense much for the end-users.
  • My opinion on the transfer of control panel items to the settings app is that it contiues the "dumbification" of windows. Yes, the settings app looks better but it's not as full featured as the control panel. Hopefully a third-party will offer the true control panel.
  • UI changes is something I'm expecting and hopefully it will be significant and to finally polished everything down to tinier details. The UI changes on Redstone 1 is something I consider rather minor and still leaving tons of rough areas. Personally I don't have a problem with translucent effects as long as they're done right which is still rather implemented okay currently on PC, but not as well thought out as it does on Aero and on modern Apple UI (iOS and macOS). I'm concerned about the implementation on mobile since it will cause GPU overhead which will bring more issues to W10M which is still needs further optimization and polish. I rather focus them on actually thoughtfully design the current Design Language, maybe put their best designer to lead on this field, since it doesn't look like their designers isn't heavily involved on things about UI and design aesthetics of Windows and its apps, while other products like Office looks well polished ones. We need the guys are not just good at UX but are exceptional at this, they are capable at this but their management doesn't take advantage of those. Outside the UI, they really needs to work on existing features that still considerably "half-baked" like Task View which still lacks common functionalities like rearranging desktops, and renaming them. Other additional functions that would are also a must is file/object drag-and-drop support on Task View, moving windows between monitors while on Task View, and ability to Snap apps like on Tablet Mode. Heck, currently Task View still missing animations when you switch desktop and the animation used on Tablet Mode is just horrible fade when it used to be zoom animation like on desktop mode. About File Explorer, indeed that they have to be seriously careful about it and just migrating to UWA especially on current state would be a fatal mistake. There are tons of tiny things that makes File Explorer we currently have, the only real downside is that it wasn't designed well for touch which imo should be much easier approach to just redesign the UI framework of it rather than rewriting completely as UWA. There is not much incentive for it to be a Universal App, especially that I have my reserved doubts they will able to make a complete rewrite of UWA File Explorer on time that is completely polished with complete features. File Explorer currently is more than just drag-and-drop windows with copy-paste function, it's really a complex software already that every Windows users use (well not all).
  • You're right the xbox 1 UI needs a total overhaul and the windows mobile UI is uterally disgusting and I hate it. I hate the os OMG. Microsoft comon mannnnnn
  • Yes please more transparency effects for mobile! Lockscreen in Android is more functional than ours. Id like to see that too
  • Yes please! More transparency effects for mobile. Lockscreen on Android ia more functional than ours (Next Lock screen) I'd like tobhave that functionality in Windows 10/ Mobile as well.
  • The biggest thing missing for me is any functionality for the car. Bringing something like MirrorLink would be a huge deal. Besdies that, Bluetooth in the car is very unreliable, I rarely get the prompt to read an SMS message for example. There is a lot of work that needs to be done for using Windows 10 Mobile in the car.
  • I agree, needs to be reliable in car, still many Bluetooth and groove issues
  • agreed with the Bluetooth issues as well.
  • This ^
    Bluetooth is hopeless, SMS don't get read, Cortana has taken a big step backwards from 8.1
  • I hope RS2 starts pushing Continuum more - Hopefully including on existing/imminent hardware like the 950/XL/Elite X3 App snapping would be something I think they need to try and move along on the Continuum side - They've made small but decent improvements to Continuum in RS1 - Lock Screen, Xbox Controller, USB Ethernet Devices / Generally improved USB support above what it was at launch, and for me noticeable performance improvements on a 950.
  • App snapping would be great. I'd also like to see the screen turn off during Continuum - if a third party app can do it very simply (and well) there must be a way to build it in simply, turning the screen off without putting the rest of the OS into sleep mode.
  • App snapping on the regular phone would be great. Dual app. But definitely in continuum
  • App Snapping is a thing that should've been done at the start, even Windows RT which runs on ARM already does this, it even have a recompiled Explorer shell exactly used on PC minus installing desktop apps. For me though, they must make Continuum to have an actual desktop environment that nails the basic things like floating draggable and resizable windows, full drag-and-drop between apps (supported apps) and desktop, and multiple-instances of File Explorer and supported apps (like Edge already does). Windows features almost needs to be present like what you just said about App Snapping (completely resizable and configurable), Taskbar live previews and controls, Jumplist, and few other minors.
  • According to early discussions from Microsoft, Redstone 1 is predominately about back end changes to make the various flavours of Windows 10 working together in better harmony. It is anticipated that Redstone 2 will be more feature related and make improved use of the interoperability
  • W10 and W10M are nowhere near being feature complete.
  • What features are you looking for?
  • I would like Edge extensions above all else, but we also need better Continuum support (multiple windows) and split app view for larger displayed devices.
  • Edge extensions are coming in Redstone 1 in the anniversary update
  • To Mobile?
  • I'm looking for at least some form of integration for W10M with W10PC. Before we had Messaging Everywhere but that too has been removed.
     
  • MirrorLink
  • Yes they are.
  • I like Edge, but it still needs more work. I still have to use IE on some websites when Edge won't work. I'm on 14372 on SP2.
  • The same:)
  • Couldn't agree more. +1 first comment after yours. UI improvements... I'm loving W 10 M!
  • Redstone 2 should complete windows 10 with new file explorer, control panel items completely being moved over and all that jazz. Interactive tiles would also be nice. Larger tile format would probably be required for some apps to be able to function with interactive tiles.
  • Chase able tiles are coming. They were discussed a couple of months ago at the Build conference. Maybe we will see this in RS2
  • Wait I thought Chasable Live Tiles are coming this RS1? So this feature was actually delayed from the start? Interactive Live Tiles really must happen, which is a significant evolution of Live Tiles that brings completely new possibilities which essentially makes them well-designed widgets. Its really time for Live Tiles to have more interactive functionalitis than just Chasable tiles. Even iOS apps grid now have Jumplist-like and more interactivity with Force Touch.
  • Microsoft should change their name to delaysoft.
  • Why don't you use ComingSoonSoft? /s Posted via the Windows Central App for Andr.... err... rrrr.....
  • APIs may be one of the things, that can be improved. Lock screen API, for example, can get released to public.
  • http://news.softpedia.com/news/microsoft-confirms-file-explorer-overhaul... I believe MS are overhauling the tradtional desktop File Explorer for Redstone 2...amongst other things ;)      
  • Far from feature complete. I want to see Echo Lockscreen. I want translucent action center. I want to see calendar app as good as Sunrise and Acompli, especially Acompli. I want Ink support on mobile.
  • I would like to see the return of Windows 7 style aero glass and an updated file explorer with tabs...
  • Linux subsystem and Ubuntu bash terminal are some of the most important. Not for consumers, but for developers, sysops, and operations staff.
  • Landscape mode on the start screen for W10M would be a good start.
  • Excited for Redstone 2 insider for the mobile side, also curious for band 3 and it running windows 10.
  • Band 3 should run W10 IOT and the Band 2 should get a free upgrade to W10 (right now running proprietary custom firmware)
  • Ink support for mobile is my biggest request!
  • Hoping for Surface Book 2 this autumn :)
  • Did you read the article, dude? No major devices update until summer 2017.
  • "Sources say Microsoft is planning to introduce minor revisions to its current Surface line" Did you?
  • I did. Surface Book 2 is major update of flagship device. "Minor revisions" means something like Surface 4, Band 3, whatsoever.
  • A Surface Book 2 will be a minor revision, honestly. The original device is of course less than a year old and is a stunning piece of kit, if you list what MS could improve on you'll find it'll just be minor tweaks and upgraded components. There's not much for them to change. It's the exact same as refreshing a Surface.
  • del
  • del - app spammed with comments, sorry!
  • Yeah, I guess. But anyway Surface Book and Pro usually generate alot of hype among Windows users, so it is necessary to reveal it during separate big event. Book and Pro also could be just a part of such event. All attention could be given to the Surface AIO and Surface Phone. Also recall how quitly Surface 3 was unveiled. IMO, there will be nice event with Surface 4 and Band 3 + some devices from other OEM somewhen this fall.
  • Or possibly even Fall 2017. It does seem strange though not to release Kaby Lake devices until Canon Lake is almost ready. Not sure this product scheduling makes a whole lot of sense.
  • Well given Intel's track record lately of not really having things as ready as we would like on time, they're probably building it in as a precaution. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • This all sounds great - I think a minor revision to the Surface Book could be particularly interesting - It's a really cool device how it is, but if they could beef up that dGPU or offer two levels of dGPU it could help make the product more viable for certain groups. Obviously getting access to any newer CPUs etc. with their usual improvements will be good overall for the line - Still not replacing my Surface Pro 3 as I do have a desktop PC which is a lot more powerful than my SP3 or a SP4/4.5 etc would be so it does me fine for mobile computing.
  • I have been holding off on a Surface for some time now because of the lack of USB-C and Thunderbolt 3. Not sure if they would add it to a small updated Surface, but I doubt it. Since those ports aren't native on Intel chipsets until Kaby Lake, I think I'll still have to wait until next year for a new Surface.
  • Sky Lake chipsets already support USB-C and many computers have them. As for Thunderbolt 3, yes new hardware is needed and that the OEM must specify that it is a USB-C port that enables Thunderbolt 3 technology.
  •   With Sky Lake, OEM's are using an Intel add-in chip to get USB-C and Thunderbolt 3. So Microsoft could do it, but I doubt they would. If they are only doing a small iteration on current one, I'm sure they'd want to keep all the ports the same for Surface Dock, etc. Which makes me wonder, what exactly would they do to the SP4?
  • So, basically - no new phones till spring/summer 2017? I am glad I bought myself a Lumia 950 then...
  • That's what we've been saying for a few months now and so far, that seems to be the case. i have heard hardware would be done earlier, but RS2 is needed as the focus point for new abilities.
  • That's why I got myself and my wife the 950XL. I knew these phones are the "wait-till we get the real Windows 10 Moble" phones.
  • What features they'll include in RS2? What do you think?
  • I read Fall by what Mary Jo said... More than one year from now.
  • Buying modern flagship is more beneficial than ever. These devices got more power and potential for few years, so even being not the best devices, 950/XL will handle the cycle of 18-20 month very well until Surface Phone or even after.
  • Yeah, the 950/xl can last that long but how many users will be left by then? A new super duper life boat means little when the Titanic is already sitting on the bottom of the ocean.
  • I'm just hoping that Microsoft will keep the 'about one year for successors' principle for the Band and Surface devices but will launch more frequent phones for all budgets...
  • but will launch more frequent phones for all budgets...
    Definitely not happening.
  • Clearly this is the end of Lumia brand. However, they could've done it in style with a L840. Current phone line lacks a 5.1" screen 1080p, and all other close to 950 specs....or as they neatly described the 830 before - an affordable flagship. IMO, the 830 was microsoft's ..well, hit.
  • 830 is a midrange device though which is indeed a missing on current x50 lineup. Lumia 830 have a marketing problem of being "affordable flagship" which is just a minor improvement from Lumia 730 with better main camera (but not 5MP front-camera of 730) and stylish metal sides and distinct Lumia shape. Lumia 830 at launch were considered pricey for its specs which is sadly ruins its reputation. For me, the next mobile lineup hopefully with have a mid-range and maybe a entry-level. Why? Mainly to serve as a good reference so W10M won't fall too much into low-bar like what Android been suffering for a long time with really bad entry-level, though currently Android midrange were relatively good nowadays (at least not all).
  • I personally think microsoft should launch everything they have under the number 3.. Xbox three...surface three pro...and ms band three...together with third win10 update on next summers event... The only thing that might stick is the surface phone that would be number one of their collection...
  • Surface 3 and Surface Pro 3 is already out (released last year) so your idea won't make sense :(
  • He just wanted to say something :D
  • Eh, we are already on the Surface Pro 4....Why would they go back to calling it Surface Pro 3
  • It could be Windows 10 Mobile 3 - not the catchiest of names however. 
  • How about MiSurface, MiXbox, MiPhone, MiMusic, MiPC etc etc.
    Double acronym, Mi=Mine, Mi=Microsoft.
  • How about NOT
  • Don't hold back, tell me how you really feel.
    Nothing like positive and constructive input like yours, apparently.
    Mi is not necessarily a realistic solution, but they need to do something to tie their products together, the current naming situation is a cluster duck.
  • That will be too similar to Xiaomi's Mi series.
  • From the source it looks that that then. Another DOA. ""Surface Phone" also is currently still in Microsoft's plans, my contacts say. The coming devices will be business-focused and ARM-based (not Intel)."
  • x86 is dead/dying, the idea of putting it in a phone is looking backwards, not forwards. It's also not practical.
  • Why dead? ARM is thousands of miles away from reaching the performance a x86 has. Even with continuum, you can't do on your phone half of what a PC can. I understand that putting a x86 in a phone is not a good idea unless you can get rid of the overheating and battery draining problems, but, well, it's definitely not dying
  • x86 is definitely on the way out for consumers; legacy/enterprise/hospitals/pros will still need it for some time, but development in that area is rapidly declining. Ask devs where they are putting their time/resources to these days: it's mobile (iOS, Android, Win10 UWP). No one likes x86 for the increasingly mobile world we live in. It's not efficient and even Intel is hitting roadblocks with how much they can do with to make it more battery and mobile friendly. Software visualization will be the transition tool used during this process. It's far from ideal, but it is improving and a lot of effort is being put into it. Microsoft is putting all of their apps into UWP, which should tell you something.
  • Devs are putting their resources into iOS and Android still because that area hasn't been fully fleshed out yet (no one is putting effort into UWP, LOL). Anyway, x86 can be as low power as ARM ... with equivalently low performance. Intel and x86 lost the ultra-low power race because they were too late to the game, ARM had become the standard due to the dominance of iOS and Android (I also believe that Intel wanted to protect their expensive Desktop x86 parts from being eaten from below).
  • Someone told me that they'll have a long way to go until "all" the x86 API's will eventually get their UWP counterpart. x86 Applications in Windows environment are extremely powerful regarding their capabilities, and UWP doesn't seem to come close today in many areas. Is that really the case?
  • What about students, I think that all students preparing for a major in Science, engineering or design will need x64, ARM is useless.
  • Daniel, most ARM based tablets are dying becuase of what? it's because of 2 in 1s (Tablets + accesories) based on x86! I understand Phablets and smartphones, but Tablets, Laptops, Desktops, Servers, etc. are all x86 because they need more powerfull procesors, not battery longegivity! What's your take on this?
  • UWP = x86 & ARM
    x86 is here to stay well beyound 2023 as the CPU for server / desktop etc
    check the technology behind, compare CPU sizes, note shrink. "speed" of the 13.5 nm EUVL tech...
     
  • Dev here. Putting time / resources into Server and distributed software which has to run everywhere not exclusively on ARM. ARM is not superior to x86, it's just different. x86 for power, ARM for efficiency. In the end, I bet ARM will lose because Intel is working on the power consumption problem at a faster pace than ARM can work out the performace problems. Microsoft is going for UWP because of exactly what I said, they need their stuff to work on ARM and x86 because both will be present, x86 on Desktop (and mobile) and ARM on Mobile (exclusively!) PS: Do you mean software virtualization?
  • Agree on the phone & x86 part. What is also impractical is kicking the dead horse of 'business phone' when competition can handle both use cases with one device. Then again if intention is to sell a few thousand devices then why not :)
  • Perhaps in the consumer space, but x86 is very much alive in business, and especially IT infrastructure :)
  • Of course, but even there the push is to get away from that as much as possible where it makes sense. All of their tools and bridges is meant to get away from that model. It can't happen, of course, for many apps, but this is the long term plan.
  • Microsoft wants the store model for that 20% $$$ skim, I'd like to see you site all the business clamoring for it... 
  • The Asus ZenFone 2 is still a great phone and uses x86. People have installed the regular Windows 10 on it. As someone that uses Windows for music production, I am still hoping for an x86 Windows Phone (whether Surface or not) that allows for running desktop programs in continuum.
  • I still believe battery life is the main reason to keep x86 out of the mobile world. Phones can barely last a day with ARM processors, with x86 it would be a plugged-in only phone lol.
    RISC is VERY limited in terms of what it can do, even if you throw more and more clock in the equation, so probably they will figure a way to make it do what it needs or inevitably we'll all be using x86 phones in the future
  • I still believe battery life is the main reason to keep x86 out of the mobile world. Phones can barely last a day with ARM processors, with x86 it would be a plugged-in only phone lol.
    RISC is VERY limited in terms of what it can do, even if you throw more and more clock in the equation, so probably they will figure a way to make it do what it needs or inevitably we'll all be using x86
    phones in the future
  • I say this as a passionate cheerleader for, and believer in Windows 10, Windows 10 Mobile, , the UWP, Continuum, and all of that, Daniel, as well as being a big fan of your work....  ....but in addition to being HIGHLY skeptical over the realities of an x86 "expiration date" anytime within the foreseeable, even if we grant that it is true for the moment - that the endeavor is to move away from it in all quadrants of computing, x86 is so big, and powerful, and will thus take so long to phase out, being no more easy (and no less impactful) to remove from Windows currently as our skeletons would be from our bodies, and/or with the reality that UWP will take so long to get the beef it needs to be a replacement skeleton, in both hardware might, app support, holistic UI experience, and consumer adoption that even if it ultimately is "looking backwards" to add win32 support to W10M, I still feel that it's a -CRITICAL- temporary measure that is not currently being employed.  Win32 will be too strong too long, and UWP will not be strong enough quick enough, meanwhile, W10M users will be offered way too little in the interim, market share and sentiment will continue to plummet, and the line between "achievable [but difficult] goal" and "hopeless pipe dream" - a line that I remain resolutely convinced that we have -NOT- crossed yet in Win10M will be hurtled towards, and perhaps eventually even crossed. Not doing something to shore this up is not one iota less than -UTTERLY DEVASTATING- in my estimation.  Also, the nuts and bolts differences aside between the relationships between Win8D / WinPh8 and Win10D /Win10M and how much better the new model is in theory aside as well, in terms of the present results as it concerns the unification of the ecosystem, and the universality of the experience when the phone hits your hand, or your hand hits the mouse is really not dramatically better now than we were before, when the 99% (the desktop users) are the 5% (of app use events), and the 1% (the phone users) are the 95% (of app uses), the phone people are starving for apps, and the desktop users are overwhelmingly using......drumroll......Win32 and/or Web.  Even I, who deliberately goes out of my way to inflate my app use on desktop and force-accelerate my adoption of it as "normal" am still finding app use to be a minority of my PC use.  The reason I'm such a believer in Win10M, Daniel, is not because of the present so much, but because of the amazing promises of the future that only an ecosystem as fluid and integrated as Windows 10 can offer - promises that, if true, would make MS an unstoppable juggernaut of awesomeness that would eventually rule the world again. Right now, though, those promises, in my estimation are not being fulfilled. Win10D and Win10M are not integrated well enough, and not cooperative enough, still being [in effect] two separate operating systems, despite technically being the same OS at the core level.  I'm a patient man, I can wait for the fulfillment of those promises - years even, without giving up hope, and declaring Win10M dead as so many (even among the commenters here) have so recklessly hastened to do - so long as I know they're still heading that direction.  But if those changes are not coming.....then really, other than using Windows for my gaming PC since gaming for Mac and Linux sucks....what am I even doing here, and why do I have these Pom Poms?  Even if they are slowly working towards an all-apps model, and even if history will ultimately prove that change to be one for the better, to just stick our fingers in our places never intended for fingers and say "it's coming"......may actually be a DIRECT contributor to it never coming.  Instead, what Windows REALLY needs to do is leverage what it alone has in the industry - the groundwork laid for a true "One Windows" context-morphing OS one-stop-shop solution, leveraging Continuum in a way that is not the current "half-measure" which is a terrific starting point, but a horrible stopping point, and instead, offering us a full-fledged Windows 10 experience through our phones (mediated by a dock, of course)...  ...MS needs to make Satya's dream of a Windows 10 that is universally holistic, universally fluid, and universally functional a reality.......and for a period of time much, much longer than MS's ability to wait out, that's really going to be impossible to do without "bringing the 'billionaire dinosaur' [Win32, not Trump] along too"....  ...let's hope they do. Cheers!
  • A one stop solution if mobile or PC is all you need. For wearables, auto, TV and VR you need to go somewhere else. Only Android offers a true one stop platform and app store. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Hey bleached! So that we don't have two separate conversation threads going at once, especially with as much overlap as they're likely to have, I'll beg off this one - unless someone else replies, and simply incorporate my response to this reply of yours into my response to you on our other conversation thread (actually, my replies to both will tie quite nicely into each other).  The thing is, it might not be til later tonight or even tomorrow before I get to that reply. I've got a little housework I need to do, then I'm meeting a friend up on Steam to set up a "family and friends sharing program" deal, enabling us to play each other's games, and then of course, we're probably going to do a little gaming. So who knows when I'll get back to my phone in a way that I can dedicate time to a worthwhile response.... ....but I will get back to you eventually. :-) By the way, if you're on Steam, and feel like it, feel free to shoot me a friend request. My user ID is "Winnie_the_Shizzy". Word of warning, I'm probably not going to be the most rigorous competition right now if you join us in a game. Im running fairly low-spec hardware (hand-me-downs of formerly high-end gear rather than bottom shelf cheapie new stuff in case that distinction's worth anything), plus I'm using a super cheap USB wifi dongle and a cheapie non-gaming grade unifying USB wireless keyboard and mouse pair (KB & M are separate, but they share one dongle). So my response times are probably not going to be as crisp as most people's. But hey, if you'd like a little target practice against a sitting duck that may just be lucky enough to kill you once or twice to ten or more of your kills, feel free to join us. I think my friend is talking Team Fortress 2 tonight. :-) Cheers!
  • Nope. Game Console. AR, PC. Android fails on so many devices. Ask Samsung. Only Windows 10 delivers to a large extent when looking for a one stop solution.
  • Haha the ouya. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android (V10 or Nexus 5X)
  • XBox and Hololens isn't open to manufacturers. Neither is the Band OS. Even counting them, they are still missing VR and automotive. They match Android at best, and that is only if you count products that aren't open to outside manufacturers. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I like the idea of a two years release period instead of one. Let the new Surface for 2017.
  • That sounds too long, but I'd rather see they take their time and introduce a new phone that will raise eyebrows when you look at it from any angle/perspective. Some people like the looks, some ppl like great specs, some people simply must have top 10 apps on their phone (snapchat, youtube being the obstacle here for wp). So, yeah I love my Lumia 950, and I dont need a side menu like my friend has on his S6 edge, but an average consumer must have complete package and then some in order to consider going for a wp. The first step towards this was with the continuum and Cortana. Small steps have been made with some new core apps. I hope they work hard so that Surface Phone can make a statement.
  • The ability to run multiple windowed apps when using continuum would be welcomed! One would think that the snap 820 has enough horsepower to do what wintel could do in the 90's.
  • I'm hoping for us Surface Book owners that they upgrade the GPU in the keyboard half and sell that by itself so we don't have to purchase an entire new Surface Book for a more powerful GPU!
  • Normal Surface 4 hopefully Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • ^^ This. Posted via my MotoE2
  • That's my guess as they've removed all Surface 3's from brick-and-mortar stores and announced they will stop making them Dec 2016. To me, that's writing on the wall for an update, and soon!!
  • Yes, please but with less bezel as is with the SP4, but do not make the screen larger. I would even like a smaller screen.
  • "it's unlikely we'll see a Surface Phone" I hope youre kidding.
  • "...this year."
    There's nothing new here. Daniel Rubino had already reported more than once that the Surface Phone was delayed for 2017 to launch alongside Redatone 2, that is focused for mobile.
  • "...this year."
    There's nothing new here. Daniel Rubino had already reported more than once that the Surface Phone was delayed for 2017 to launch alongside Redatone 2, that is focused for mobile.
  • I didnt caught that info. Looks like Ill buy a L650 for now.
  • It makes sense to launch the SP5 and SB2 as soon as the chips are ready because they're not going to be that dependent on the OS updates the way the phone or potentially AIO would (even the 4 and book launched a few weeks before TH2). They don't need to launch everything at once in fact it's better to space things out to keep themselves in the public eye. There's a reason Apple has separate mac and idevice events and Samsung doesn't refresh the GS and Notes at the same time
  • "Microsoft is planning to introduce minor revisions to its current Surface line"   Considering the Surface Pro 4 itself was already a minor revision on the Pro 3, I wonder if it's wise from the business stand point to even be releasing these revisions. Maybe they should just hold on and release the Surface Pro only every 2 years and in between those release the normal Surface. So this Autumn they'd release the Surface 4 and next Autumn the Pro 5. Paying for the changes in the manufacturing yearly just for minor revisions doesn't make much sense to me.
  • I actually thought the Surface Pro 4 was a significant upgrade over the Surface Pro 3, bigger screen, better battery, Windows Hello, more configuration options, etc.
  • Well...that's sort of relative I guess. The only one I'd consider an upgrade would be the battery...if the new processor wasn't such a nightmare (well, at least for the first couple of months). Bigger screen...sure, at the expense of manouverability and a weaker type cover inclination (which in my book goes as a downgrade); Windows Hello is ok but, honestly, it's pretty much just a gimmick. The configurations was a matter of offering options though. Microsoft could have offered it on the SP3 if they had anticipated that it would be as popular as it was (contrary to the SP1 and SP2).   When I think of significant upgrades I'm talking about trully more powerful processors (not the small jump), a significantly better graphics card (without going SB style), more efficient ports, a far better pen experience, a trully efficient way of carrying the Surface Pen (and the magnet is an even worse idea than the pen loop) etc. Things that actually make it worth for someone who spend 1200€ on an SP3 to spend another 1200€ to upgrade to an SP4 (or from an SP4 to an SP5) just a year later. The SP4 offered none of that. Which is why I consider it a minor revision. It's like the iPhone S line. It's pretty much the same as the normal iPhone, with just a couple of tweaks and an S. I rather they skip that model and only offer true improvements. After all, the Surface is meant as a reference device, right? I don't think you need references yearly ;P
  • I am curious what kind of iterative update they would do to the SP4 if they release one that does not have Kaby Lake. Would they add in an Alpine Ridge chip for some modern connectivity? They should have done that for the original SP4, which is the only reason I refused to buy one. But with Kaby Lake on the horizon, I wouldn't pick up this iterative SP4 either. Dunno what else they would do to it to make it better without new CPU.
  • Can't say this is surprising
  • Well, the wait for SP5 and SB2 is on. I personally need to refresh my current tool set and therefore will be deciding between SP5 and SB2, band3 will be a must, and then there is the Surface phone and surface mini. Need a practical small device whenever only light work is needed, lets see if MS fills in this gap and offers a full business/leisure line.
  • Based on the image of the article I hope this means more keyboard options, specially those with fingerprint reader but in different colors.
  • A German layout TC with the correctly labelled smaller/bigger signs key would be nice.
  • They fixed this pretty quickly.
  • I was doing sales promotion for the SP4 around christmas time and all the TC4s I saw during that period had this fault. But good to know it has been fixed!
  • There are a few main features I would like to see in RS2:
    1. Two Apps at once: When we currently hold the Windows button the screen shrinks for one handed use, but it should allow us to click the black area and ad an app to it.
    2. Landscape Start screen mode. I would really like to see this feature. Maybe allowing for rotation of the contents of the tile (i.e. Text and Logo) and not the tile itself, thereby allowing for a consistent live setup. I am sure they will come up with something, probably better though. As along as its Landscape I will be happy.
    3. Minimized phone call notification when using an app. Just a bar at the top would suffice, no need to block the entire screen.
    4. Better support for the raw camera file format, .dng.
    5. Xbox Game streaming.
    6. 4k through continuum.
    7. Windows 10 Mobile for x86 with desktop program support in continuum.
    8. The ability to install Windows 10 Mobile to any phone with the right hardware like with Windows 10 for PC.
    9. Mirrorlink for autos that support it.
    10. Pen/Ink support!
  • I am hoping for a powerful and relatively inexpensive Surface 4. Need to combine/replace two aging laptops and an original iPad mini, and still be able to stream games from my Xbox One. AFAIK this isn't possible on Surface three, and at this point I won't buy SP4 but would rather wait to see what is coming. Want to stick with MS hardware. Any suggestions or advice?
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  • I am hoping for a powerful and relatively inexpensive Surface 4. Need to combine/replace two aging laptops and an original iPad mini, and still be able to stream games from my Xbox One. AFAIK this isn't possible on Surface three, and at this point I won't buy SP4 but would rather wait to see what is coming. Want to stick with MS hardware. Any suggestions or advice?
  • I am hoping for revised Surface hardware so that the current will get some decent price drops because I'm really wanting a Surface Book i7 16/512 :D
  • yea common sense, sd820 for the 950's and newer intels for the surfaces, maybe that isnt too hard ms?
  • So long as the screen allows input from other devices and not just from phones via continuum then it'll be ideal. I already have a Surface Pro 4 and dock, what I need is a large 27/28" 5K screen with multi-touch and Surface pen input to plug it in to. I don't need the PC part of an AiO. An external graphics dock wouldn't go amiss either if they're looking at accessories... Though they need to move away from proprietary ports to ensure better future-proofing and wider adoption of the accessories. Exciting times though! Makes sense we'll see Redstone 3 around the Windows 10 anniversary again. With Redstone 2 somewhere in between.
  • My three biggest things (in logical, rather than preferential order) are: 1) A truly aspirational Windows handset. Call it "Surface Phone", call it.....whatever. Just a phone with some serious "wow" factor. The HP Elite is a HUGE step in that direction.....but let's see MS push the envelope even further! 2) A -TRUE- and complete Win10 desktop experience with Continuum. Not just win32 support, not just the full UI (minus perhaps a start screen matching mod for start menu), but -BOTH!- Whether that can be handled by the phone internally, or whether that be handled by a barrage of "enhancement" docks of various form factors and performance levels, I want a full Continuum, not just "Windows10RT" 3) (spring boarding off the last one) I want to see the afore-mentioned slew of dock options and formats. Things that, a la the keyboard on a Surface Book, enhance the power, performance, and functionality of the base device. Maybe a dummy all-in-one, or a dummy desktop tower, or dummy laptop like the HP, or some sort of dummy Surface 2-in-1. Maybe a dummy game console-like media/gaming PC. All of these devices could feature both a physical and/or hard wired connection to the phone for maximum performance, as well as a wireless connection for maximum convenience. If the idea is to be able to do all your digital everything from just one hub device, this is the best strategy that I can think of to get us there, and it makes the phone that hub, which is the most sensible option by far. Pair that with a full Win10 Continuum experience, and we could be talking some really serious business from Microsoft! :-)
  • What does the Elite have that the Acer didn't? A faster chip? The Acer failed so fast, the Elite is going to need a miracle to have any success. Windows phones are dead, Microsoft needs to accept reality and go in another direction. They are delusional. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Better screen, best chipset possible, fingerprint scanner, iris scanner, more ram, better speakers and batter ecosystem of continuum accessories and services. What more do you expect?
  • The Acer wasn't exactly lacking in these areas and it was stillborn. It is going to take more than slightly better specs to create a compelling device. Like I said, I expect Microsoft to take a completely different direction in mobile. This path they are on has repeatedly proven to be a loser.
  • As soon as someone says "Windows Phone is dead", I stop listening. It's way too soon to say that. They're in retrenchment, redevelopment. I really think we need to see what comes from that first before we can start clanging any funeral bells. And besides, you'll get the same question from me that everyone else does: if you're really that convinced that W10M is that hopeless, then what are you doing wasting your time reading, commenting, and replying to comments on W10M articles? If I came to a point where I felt there was no hope at all for W10M, do you know what I'd do?......disappear. Spend the time I did spend on these comment sections fingerpainting, or...I don't know....something, anything, but being a doomsayer on these articles. I've never understood people's need to do that. Now, THAT being said, I just wrote a lengthy reply to a comment that Daniel Rubino made on this very article in response to him saying x86 is dead, and we shouldn't be waiting for x86 support in Continuum. I think if Win10M is going to succeed, it's going to have to be on the strengths of Continuum, and a full-fledged desktop experience with it (at least until UWP can eventually catch up), which of course, can't be done without either Win32 support,  or at least Win32 virtualization which I don't see working very well or taking all that much less work, frankly. If we have no hope of win32 support on W10M via Continuum, or of a Continuum that is anything more than Windows10's analogy to Windows8's "Windows RT", then I would admittedly be left not feeling too much more optimistic than you are, and it'd be time to start looking into fingerpaint shopping. Still, I think we all need to cool our engines, and just see what Satya and the gang will pull off. I'm still cheering for W10M, and still hoping for the best. But if there's anything that I'm THOROUGHLY convinced of, it's this: that whichever one of us gets to tell the other one "I told you so", will have to wait a few more years to be able to do it. In the meanwhile we wait, and the fewer the premature proclamations of doom....the better. Cheers!
  • I am here because I want to see Microsoft succeed. It has been proven over and over again that the WP/WM platform is not compelling. Seeing Microsoft continue down this same failed path, time and time again, is not something a fan should want. We need to make sure they realize that the only way they can have any success is by truly rebooting the platform. It is time for a completely new paradigm. The current one has not changed since WP7 and it is obvious now that it will never work. Six years later it is time for Microsoft to realize this. It is time for its fans to stop making excuses. It is time to get real.
  • Okay, that's fair. That satisfies my question of "what are you doing here?". But as for the "and now for something completely different" approach you're proposing, what do you suggest? I actually think what MS is doing here in Win10 -IS- very different from what they've done before. Well, let me put that differently: I think the vision of "One Windows", with One Core, WaaS, UWP, Continuum, and all of that is not only completely novel in terms of WP history, but in the industry entirely. It's a vision that I find incredibly captivating, and pregnant to bursting with promise.  The problem is, the whole handling of the situation has become one great big anti-climax. They've over promised and under delivered, made a bunch of noise about a comeback, and then Lumia 950, made a bunch of noise about Continuum, and then, Windows RT, made a bunch of noise about a fluid, context-sensitive, adaptive morphing OS that connects you across the ecosystem like no one ever has before, and yet, while all of the ground work is laid, and while I guess W10 and W10M are technically the same OS, the level of seemless unification between 10 and 10M in practice has not yet turned out to be significantly better than Win8 and WinPh8 which I guess technically were different OSs. The point is, yes, we agree that this has been pooched. However, I'm not sure a scorched earth / back to the drawing board approach is the answer. Instead, I think the answer is to go into retrenchment, shore up all their screw ups, and double down on the very promising offerings pledged in W10M. I suppose either in your vision, or in mine, this is sorta going to be a "comeback tour - take two" either way, which really does not inspire much confidence in the buyer. But I think a "start from scratch" approach at this point would probably be even more damaging than simply fixing what they screwed up in their first attempt at launching the most potentially awesome platform in the history of tech.... .....but I'm course I'm open to hearing your case if you still think I'm wrong. :-)
  • I guess they could stick with W10M and just fully revamp the UI and branding. People don't care that it is supposedly the same as desktop Windows. That is probably a bad thing to the vast majority of users. Sales numbers really support that claim. The names don't have to match in order for apps to be compatible. Microsoft mistakes people being forced to use Windows as people wanting to use Windows. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • So, in a year Microsoft is going to launch a "Surface Phone"? At this point, Windows Mobile will be completely out of the market and developers will be be paying even less attention to it. This is when Microsoft is going to release a new phone? A new phone running the same platform and UI that has been a massive failure for 6 years straight? They won't do it. By next summer they will have killed the project and will have a new strategy. This current one makes no sense. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • We still have the HP elite, acer phone, Alcatel and others. Hopefully that will hold people over until it comes out. And with the UWP push, maybe it will come with a while bunch of apps to download
  • The HP Elite is still a unicorn. Half a year after annoucement we still have no release date, pricing or such info. The Acer phone flopped immediately. It was stillborn. There is no way they will continue making Windows phones. Acatel? Does anyone care about those? They are invisible. Can't even name one. UWP only works when you have a mobile presence. Currently Microsoft has no mobile presence so developers will continue to just make desktop apps or web services.
  • HP Elite needs RS1. UWP is more then just mobile presence. Man, do some research. Please.
  • Yes. There's desktop, HoloLens, tablet too. Love the new WC update
  • Hololens is still a unicorn. If it ever does go on sale, it won't have any impact to speak of. Windows tablets are no different than desktop. Not worth mentioning separately. It is desktop or mobile. Mobile is dying and there isnt much of a reason to develop for desktop. x86 gives you access to legacy Windows machines and if you don't need anything too fancy a website gives you access to all platforms. Maybe someday there will be a compelling argument to develop for UWP, but that isn't today. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • So what counts as a minor revision? I want to buy a SP4 soon for school. Definitely can't wait until next year for new hardware, but I may be able to wait for fall for the revision if it's significant enough to justify the wait. Would it most likely just be a slightly faster cpu/gpu and not worth waiting for?
  • Wait till fall. If the new release is not significantly better, get the SP4 at a cheaper price.
  • Hmm new Surface device and possibly new band? Time to start saving up
  • Already gave up after the w10m upgrade fiasco.  ALL phones running 8.1 will be able to upgrade,  no wait,  all phones running DENIM will upgrade,  no wait,  Only these very select phones will update to w10m.  oh wait.  we are axing those phones,  and letting OEMS develop phones.  YEAH...Bye microsoft. 
  • I want a new surface book.....waiting patiently.
  • Microsoft hardware revisions released fall 2016,  cancelled late summer 2016!
  • I'm assuming just the Surface 4 and Band 3 will be announced, possibly a new Surface Mini that was scrapped before.
  • I'm a developer, and I know I'm not a consumer, but what I really want to see in Surface Phone is a capability to boot full desktop Windows 10 OS so I can install dev tools I use for work and use my phone as 1 device for all, instead of purchasing a laptop or using a PC.  I know I'm not a majority, but I think this would be more revolutionary than what Continuum is today, which is totally limited by the small ARM ecosystem for productivity.  Just my 2 cents.
  • There was a great Areosmith song describing this Gabriel.  Its title was DREAM ON!
  • They really need to have a Surface 4, focused on students, maybe the pen is separate to keep the entry prize as low as possible. The SP4 is way too pricey for the masses.
  • agreed,  and to large for tablet use.  thats why I dont have one.  I own the surface 3 and its much better than the pro series.   Compared to the ipad air however the S3 is down right portly.  If they can build a super lightweight surface 4,  it would be a winner.  As it sits right now...the ole surface 3 is now going on the chopping block for a new ipad air with zagg keyboard and bluetooth pen that works like the surface pen.  I cannot wait for my new stuff to arrive. 
  • Argh. Fall 2017 for Kaby. Man that's a long wait. I'll be holding onto my SP2 until then.
  • That's a hilarious question. What am I hoping to see from Microsoft? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I loved the path they were heading down with Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8. I despise what they've done with 10, and I have no doubt the idiocy will continue. As for devices, I'm happy with my Lumia 1020 and my Surface Pro 3. My Lumia 950 is a big, expensive disappointment.  And, based on what has been rumored for future Microsoft devices and other OEMs in the smartphone arena, they are all overpriced, lacklustre junk.  So, no, I'm not hopeful of anything out of Microsoft.
  • There was a reason I supported WP, differentiation and what Joe B campaigned for, ease of use and catering to the user. Now they're doing what Google is trying to get rid of. And yes I prefer wp8 and it's direction too! So because MS is doing all that hamburger, tap top left for this , lower right for that, and upper right for this BS, I just decided might as well go to an ecosystem that's already doing that- the apple iPhone.
  • I was never a fanboy, so I was never really hurt, & thus flipped to become a radical fanboy for an opposing platform... I don't get fanboys, they always deal in absolutes, & can only see things through the prism of their perfect platform, like people who only ever vote for one party, bizarre. N.B. not talking about you, just a pattern I've observed many times with some users on ALL the platforms I play in, it's like some kind of binary switch. I'm quite happy with W10M, just as I am with OSX, Android, W10, there's a long way to go, but slowly & surely it's getting there, & the tempo will likely pickup much more from October onwards. It is perfect? Absolutely not, just as is the case for the other platforms I use. There's always something I'd like to see change or be improved, & usually my opinion is different to the next guy.
  • I want to see the software that doesnt feel like beta...
  • Surface Book 2 (with all the kinks worked out) will grab my attention. Maybe a little more battery life in the screen, please. Oh, and a place to store the pen -- perhaps a slot / depression above the top row of the keyboard.
  • Just when I thought they were going to stop living in Apple's fall shadow...
  • Quote Gizmodo: 'When did Apple become the boring one'. Last year it sure was the other way around.
  • I don't know what you're getting at, but none of it matters when it's a comparison of brand recognition in the consumer space.
  • I think with Surface Book 2, they'll find a way to close it completely without losing the wow factor of the hinge.
  • Do you think Continuum directly competes with Surfaces?  Why would you but a Surface when your phone could do most of the business functions (with 0365)? Please share your thoughts!    
  • Because you don't want to use Office on a 6" screen. Because you don't want to carry around a laptop shell that is only operational when your phone is plugged in. Because there are no apps on Windows and the ones available are low quality. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I really hope that the Band 3 comes with a great trade in deal for Band 2 owners.  I got my Band 2 in February and I'm on my 3rd one due to the rubber cracking on 2 previous ones.  Really poorly engineered....
  • Not sure why you're thumbs down for this post. F**king WP fanboys! And yes, they're also the reason I left wp.
  • Is Microsoft building its new flagship surface phone...?? i hope they do...!!! And its time to get new features on windows 10 mobile too....
  • Not sure why you're thumbs down for this post. F**king WP fanboys! And yes, they're also the reason I left wp.
  • I just want to see these rumoured streaming devices so I can replace my WDTV. Of course, Surface Phone would be welcomed but doesn't sound like we'll see that for a while...
  • For fall, I am hoping for Band 3. That's all, Santa. Maybe an improved Typecover.
  • USB C!  Nice
  • I would like to see a new, resilient filesystem for the cloud and mobile first era.
  • Not sure why you're thumbs down for this post. F**king WP fanboys! And yes, they're also the reason I left wp.
  • LOL, settle down, little too keen to jump to the conclusion "it must be fanboys!" That in itself it quite fanboy-ish. It could just be someone that doesn't agree it should be a priority, doesn't necessarily make them a "fanboy".
  • Have you guys used appygeek on iOS? I miss a wp feature that appygeek still use today, pivoting. By trying to mimic the features of android to gain acceptance in that community lost my support. Frankly, safari browser in my opinion is way better than crappy edge! Easy to use and much faster! Oh well, I'm starting to understand now why joe b. is on a year hiatus.
  • Redstone 3? Nope, that's not de codename. Wait for the official announcement.
  •   I'm really interested in the Band 3. I had the Band 2 since it first shipped (overall I really loved it) and then I sold it because I was more run focused at that time, the GPS left much to be desired, it would drop and not connect too often for me. I recently purchased it again due to me changing my workout routines.  Side note: I'm annoyed at the lack of attention given to the Band when researching fitness trackers, they don't seem to even mention it when it's arguably more feature-rich than any other band at that price point. 
  • I'm down for a new Band 3!! Love my Band 2 but the battery life and overall build needs to be improved.
  • Folks it is interesting to note that in Tablet mode in builld 14379 that the apps scrool vertcally like on a Windows smart phone bring in more similarities to the windows products i gues this was done to insure more ease at converting an Universal app to work on a Windows 10 smart phnes as well as on a desktop  
  • MS can develop the finest hardware imaginable, but until the app gap is remediated, it won't matter.  Gains thus far under UWP have been modest, IMO, as has been iOS app ports coming via the Islandwood bridge.  So tired of seeing app store logos for iOS and Android, with nothing for Windows.  And I love Win10, both PC and Mobile.  I'll continue to be patient but frustrated.
  • I want a Surface Pro 4 with builtin LTE Preferable i5 or i7 . I have the Microsoft Surface with LTE but its much to slow.