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Surface Phone and huge Windows 10 Mobile Redstone 2 update slated for April 2017

Lumia 950 and Surface
Lumia 950 and Surface (Image credit: Windows Central)

Microsoft is reaffirming their commitment to Windows 10 Mobile as a recently revealed internal email suggests, but what about the reference to future hardware? Microsoft's Terry Myerson mentions that they are "currently in development of our next generation products."

New information reveals more clues about the so-called Surface phone.

"Not proud" of Lumia 950 and XL

Ever since the Lumia 950 and Lumia 950 XL were revealed by Microsoft back in October of 2015, I have been saying that those phones do not fit with Microsoft's current device philosophy. The evidence was clear on stage and for anyone who compared the innovation and design of the Surface Book with those phones.

Microsoft feels the same, as I am told the company is not very proud of those phones or the current state of Windows 10 Mobile software. Reviews of both phones by tech sites have been negative, and even fans of Windows Phone and the Lumia line feel underwhelmed. The failure of those phones is evident with the low sell-through of those devices and the resulting 'buy one, get one free' sale at the Microsoft Store.

Microsoft has made a lot of progress with the software since November with eleven OS updates, but Microsoft will be focused on bringing that mobile experience up to snuff after the Redstone 1 update.

While none of this should be surprising, it is nice to know that Microsoft is not delusional about the current state of Windows 10 Mobile.

Surface Phone and Redstone 2 (and 3)

Microsoft is planning to release their so-called Surface phone by April 2017. I have reported an early 2017 date before, but I have now heard more specifics about that schedule through new channels.

The reason for the delay of new hardware - including presumably Surface PCs as initially reported by Mary Jo Foley - is Microsoft waiting for the completion of Windows 10 Redstone 2. That OS refresh will bring new features for PC and especially mobile.

Currently, Redstone 1 is in late stages of development and has been publicly named as the Windows 10 Anniversary Update slated for release later this summer. Many of the features were recently documented in our recent deep dive on last week's Insider release of Windows 10 build 14238. That OS refresh focuses mainly on PC with some notable new features for Mobile as well.

More interestingly, for the first time I hear of a Redstone 3 update for Windows 10 and mobile through multiple sources. I am told both Redstone 2 and Redstone 3 are going to be heavily focused on "innovation around mobile phones."

Redstone 2 and be heavily focused on mobile phones

All of this news lines up with Terry Myerson's often-cited quote from the Verge that Windows Phone is not a focus for the company this year. In that quote, Myerson notes "there will be a time for it to be our focus" and that looks to be in 2017 with these Redstone OS updates.

In other words, Microsoft is prioritizing Windows 10 and the mobile version will get its due. They are not, however, abandoning the platform as has been interpreted by some in the press.

A secure future for the Surface phone?

Microsoft is also planning on positioning the Surface phone (assuming that is its final name) with two goals in mind:

  1. Most secure phone in the world
  2. The best phone for productivity

Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella has repeatedly referred to productivity as a Microsoft's key strength in personal computing and a differentiator from the competition. From that perspective, it makes sense that Windows 10 for the phone will continue to build off that base as it goes forward with its mobile plans.

Continuum and Win32 is the future

Microsoft will also continue to invest in and develop its Continuum feature for mobile as a key differentiator. Currently, devices like the Lumia 950 and Lumia 950 XL along with the Acer Jade Primo and VAIO Phone Biz can connect to larger displays with the OS scaling appropriately to simulate a PC-like experience.

However, one weakness in this early version of Continuum is the inability to run classic Win32 apps. HP is addressing this gap through app-virtualization for the forthcoming Elite x3 mega-smartphone due this summer. That process involves running Win32 apps on a remote server and the recipient phone being able to run those Win32 classic apps remotely. This ability gives business users the flexibility to use one device all the time.

Microsoft evidently sees this as the future as I hear they are investing in and betting on making Win32 apps and Continuum a feature for the Surface phone. This information about this strategy is very recent, and Microsoft refers to it as an attempt to make the phone a "real alternative to a computer".

Surface phone may be a "real alternative to a computer"

Exactly how that happens is not yet clear, but it looks to be a central feature of whatever is coming with Windows 10 Redstone 2 and Microsoft's next-gen mobile hardware. I have reported on Microsoft's collaboration with Intel on mobile equipment tied to the project, but much of that information is vague at this time.

Coming into focus

The bad news for Windows 10 Mobile users is that the next year will be one of waiting in anticipation of what Microsoft does next. Terry Myerson's recent email suggests OEM partners have more devices coming out that run Windows 10 Mobile offering some reprieve.

The real push for mobile is not until 2017

Additionally, Microsoft will be continuing to release more iterations of Windows 10 Mobile until they get it right, regardless of what the media and market think. Microsoft pushed out eleven updates to Windows 10 Mobile in just five months, and it seems reasonable that current Windows 10 Mobile devices could see at least another twelve updates at a minimum over the next year leading up to Redstone 2. That number of updates could go as high as twenty or more if their current release cycle continues. Such an aggressive update schedule does make you wonder how much the OS can evolve in a year.

The big push for Windows 10 Mobile, however, is still ahead in early 2017 as Microsoft pivots its focus back to its mobile story after this summer's OS update. Can the company bring something that is both productive and disruptive to the mobile industry? We'll have to wait and see, but Redmond is certainly going to try.

Daniel Rubino
Daniel Rubino

Daniel Rubino is the Executive Editor of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft here since 2007, back when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, Microsoft Surface, laptops, next-gen computing, and arguing with people on the internet.

  • If you want to go by facts and figures, Windows Central have been pretty "solid" about alot of things. That's not my opinion and that's a fact. My comment was in reference to context of the article, I'd rather take his word on it then some article on forbes for example. As I don't know the exact nature of the information, I said "probably" but like I said it's apparent you're looking for a time wasting circular argument. So with that end of discussion.
  • Hope they bring the teased interactive tiles on update 2
  • basically soon(tm).
  • As usual, it's always been a wait game for MS mobile. Always the next one will save the Mobile. But that never happened. Redstone 2 will be only for surface phone, all lumias will stay out of the upgrade. That's why we won't see any new lumias. And the cycle starts again...
  • If they would just fix Bluetooth and Groove, I would be happy.
  • If we already knew Surface phone will be released in 2017, Microsoft would have had great sales for 950s
  • Good point.
  • I got the impression that Windows Central was pushing the Lumia 950/950 XL.  Half heartedly but more positive than negative. Almost every other review site was negative on the new Lumias.  Just go back and read them.
  • I don't know about pushing them, but they covered the newest Windows-powered devices, as I would expect them too.  They have been critical of the 950, but also quick to point out things that they like.  I like a lot of things about my 950, but I see it as a stepping stone from my 1020 until the "Surface Phone" arrives in a year. 
  • And it's a very good stepping stone. I had a 1020 and loved it for a good while, but we have to admit the specs were crap. In terms of performance and how nice the phones are to use the 1020 doesn't compare to the 950 or pretty much most mid range phones you can buy these days (Except on the camera sensor). I'll get Microsoft's next phone if it does something special, but I'm waiting to see what they come up with before I get excited - I already know if they did x86 apps in Continuum it wouldn't be suitable for the work I do anyway so it couldn't replace my computers (SP3 and Desktop) but I'd be tempted into getting one to show others, clients etc. I won't buy one based on cosmetics alone, because I actually really like the 950 and I like the removable backplate, battery etc.
  • Love the design also.
    Removable backs are also great when you drop em. I dropped mine 4-5 Ft onto concrete the back came off and I cant find a scratch. The impact was lessoned by the back coming off.
  • yeh im sure the 950 runs great but like alot of people i wont buy a phone that looks like cheap plastic.  I wish they had made it closer to the 930 as that was what i was expecting.  The 950 should have been named the 590 to fit the 520 line.
  • The 950 would have been quite the spec leap from the 520.  
    Anyway, I don't think my phone looks like cheap plastic.  I don't even notice the looks, so it must not be bothering me too much. Or maybe I'm focused on that screen...which is the largest portion of the aesthetic and it's beautiful. 
  • yeh im sure the 950 runs great but like alot of people i wont buy a phone that looks like cheap plastic.  I wish they had made it closer to the 930 as that was what i was expecting.  The 950 should have been named the 590 to fit the 520 line.
    Have you ever held a 950XL? I felt the same as you, until I picked one up at the MS store. it almost looks like the back is made of ceramic. cool to the touch and just enough "grit" as not to be slippery in your hand. Not to mention, it was way slimmer than the 920 I had in my pocket at the time, and much lighter. My opinion changed immediately.
  • Not sure about your cheap plastic comment. I really like the phone and the "high quality" of plastic used. It can stand a lot of drops and still looks great. The screen of the phone looks very bright and sharp. Galaxy S7 may look better now, but when the phone came out it had comparible or better screen than then available devices. To me the Lumia 830 has one of the best looks, but again, that is my view point. Originally, coming from a 1020 (whose camera stopped working), I thought the camera circle on Lumia 830 looked like a 1020 wannabe, but now I feel it is one of the best looking Lumia device.
  • It honestly doesn't feel cheap. Feels somewhat comparable to an S4 or something. I'm just thankful they haven't been infected by "GLASS ALL THE THINGS" trend at Samsung or aluminum.
  • Good points. People tend to think that their ideas about subective things like "design" are universal.  The design of the 950 doesn't bother me, at all.  The only design that currently sticks out to me, is the S7 Edge...that edge is about the only new design element out there.   I still have my 1020 and will be using it is a video camera for a project that I'm working on. We'll use the 1020 and a Canon DSLR to shoot. My 950 will make an appearance on-camera, but I can't shoot with it.  For some reason, the camera app doesn't recognize external mics plugged in to the headphone jack. It's quite annoying.  So, the 1020 will take care of the scenes that we're using phone cam  footage for.  I like the backplate being able to be removed and give access to the replaceable battery. NOW, if I could only find where they sell those sneaky batteries.
  • If you don't live in Europe, asking Microsoft may help you find one.
  • I love the removable covers... I don't want an all glass metal phone. The 950 is great. The different cases mozo makes highlights the unique design to give everyone something they like... I guess a metal shiney back cover should be an option for some... I personally do not want that... But if no compromise is made other than a non removable battery, a surface design like phone will still get me. My 640 is used everyday... I swap covers depending on my activity. I would not put my blu life one x in the same situation as I do my 640... 640 is just stronger. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Generally speaking, when any site includes links to purchase a phone on the Microsoft Store or Amazon or where ever, I get the impression that they are encouraging people to buy.  Like the advertisement at the bottom of the home page on  The links aren't there just for decorative purposes to spiff up the web page.  Also, you wouldn't encourage people to buy something that you thought wasn't worth the money, would you?
  • More like MS and and Panos wanted the 950 to be a greater device, but due to the lack of time since he was put in charge, they couldn't change much. Even though it might mot seem great visually compared to a S7, Continuum, the camera, the triple led and the specs are good
  • My wife has a 950XL. Biggest problem is that Windows 10 Mobile just isn't as good as 8.1. I wish it was. It's not.
  • Pretty much agree, but W10M is getting there.
  • Microsoft came out and said it was a phone for present windows users and not new users, it was something for windows fans to buy till something else hint hint, microsoft said this lol.  Microsoft knew this wasnt gona sell well, they knew it wouldnt grow their market share, its strange how people seem to not remember microsofts coments.
  • Would be like Toyota releasing a new car and saying, the brakes, lights & radio don't work, but this one is for the fans so its OK. WTF?!
  • Except it's nothing like that. A car with no brakes or lights will kill you.  The complaints about the phone are about things that are inconvenient or annoying.  
  • Was it not the toyota prius that were having problems with brakes not working some years ago. resulting in car crashes with people dying?
    I haven't seen people dying from a phone having some battery issues or restarts....
  • No the brakes were fine. The incidents were investigated and no issue was found other than people using inappropriate mats which could cause the pedals to jam. The 2011 Prius was released with a radio that sometimes just cut out for several seconds though for no apparent reason.  
  • Great effing analogy, NOT.
  • Yet they have voting rights. We're doomed.
  • Even after Redstone 3 and new Hardware in 2017... I doubt it will make much dent in Smartphone marketshare. I think Surface Phone will be a niche device with Business focus and will not sell in any significant numbers for consumers oustide of fans...
  • So far, whoever I have spoken with that owns a Windows phone, haven't upgraded cause they were waiting for Surface phone. My wife got tired of her 920 and eventually decided to get 950 a few months ago. Glad she did, cause this won't be here till mid-2017. My brother bought a 640 in the meantime. Two people in my office who sit near me use Lumia devices. Both want to upgrade, but were waiting for a bigger jump than 950/XL. Now, the question is, do we upgrade now or wait another year.
  • I was the same with my 920. Broke the screen one too many times so bought a 535 to tide me over. Lost that last week and just took delivery today of a 650. My wife's 820 was basically dead and she needed a new laptop too, so thought we'd try continuum but I couldn't justify a 950 for myself when my main PC is the very portable SP3 and I don't need continuum. 950 looks better than people give it credit. 650 looks fantastic, especially for the price.
  • A lot of folks didn't upgrade because the Surface phone was supposed to come out this summer. Then it was early 2017. Do you really wanna bet that the new April 2017 deadline will be met? I got my 950XL in February and it looks like it'll have a year-and-then-some of life while I wait.
  • The bigger question is, will Microsoft actually release this phone or kill it at the last minute because they don't have a market for it. If it is running W10m, then it will not sell. They need something new and fresh. Windows phone is dead. Hardware isn't going to change that. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • The ads you see on other websites are actually tracking what you usually search for through you Advertisement ID. If someone doesn't search for Lumia phones, they don't get to see those ads.
  • Well, at launch, they really weren't good phones. W10M was not ready back then, and the OS still has room for some obvious improvements. Right now, I'd just be happy if stability got a little better, but I'm liking my 950 more with each OS update. Now that I know MS has bigger plans for the platform, I'll keep with it. I just hope MS doesn't abandon the 950 when Surface phone nears.
  • That's my concern as well... I've been burned twice by them so why should I trust them this time?
  • Eh tech sites always give Windows devices a lower score because it has low marketshare. In fact, all tech sites really do is tout whatever is currently popular, and bash whatever isn't. Then when something new becomes popular they rinse and repeat. They have no understanding or concept of the future.
  • Exactly, when the surface was released with a keyboard en pen, they repeated what Apple said. "No one needs a 2-1" and  "You don't need a pen...." We know the outcome...
  • I've read review of 950 on GSM Arena and was surprised how positive it is.
  • I felt their review was really objective and accurate. In general though I feel like they're reviews are great. Many other sites I've seen have problems maintaining objectivity, and some will overlook or downplay issues with a device if they like it or the manufacturer when they won't do the same on other devices.
  • They didn't even fully reviewed the 950XL, too ambarassed?
  • Most review sites coverage of the 950/XL was something like "It has features, blah blah, but it's Windows Phone so it sucks don't buy it Windows is dead buy Samsung or Apple." Obviously they're entitled to their opinions but many of them didn't even bother to accurately review the features of the phone, and some would pick one software hiccup they had and write a full page on that then give it a low score.
  • Well, I love my 950XL. Yes, Win10 on mobile still has some "issues" but I'm running the porduction builds and the phone is mostly fantastic. The whole "cheap" thing is ridiculous. The phone is very solid and doesn't feel cheap at all, especially when you fire up that QHD display and just revel at the sharpness of it. I've handled the S7 Edge and I'm not impressed. iPhones don't impress me that much either. Unfortunately, we have a herd mentality and many people follow that herd whever they go. Kine of like, if it's not metal it's cheap! No, not really. But enough of me wizzing in the wind and getting it blasted back in my face.  
  • I would have loved to try the 950XL but I'm on Verizon who didn't carry it. THAT was a bigh miss by MSFT as there are LOTS of us Windows Phone Loves on Verizon. When I deciced to go with the iPhone 6S+ I found out just who awesome a large screen and super high quality device shoud be!
  • If there actually were lots of Windows Phone users on Verizon, they would carry a phone for them. Obviously this isn't true. Windows phone users are few and far between. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I consider this site a "fan site" IOW it fronts for MS most of the time. It's only when one of their moves, services or products is exposed as bad and everyone knows it only then do they get on that bandwagon otherwise they front for MS every time. The 950's are a good example of this as soon as they were released they were panned so they had to pan them here and even then they tried to pretend they were some kind of "new tech". Really? And as far as this "surface phone" goes also notice the wording they use: "revealed". Ummm, what does that mean? The only thing I want to know is when I can see and hold it for myself so I can determine if it meets MY standards. That's it. I don't really care when they "reveal" it that could mean when they announce it actually exsists for all we know and wouldn't be actually released to consumers til months later. I'll continue being wary of MS and their fan sites for time being until they show more care about their customers. The way they have treated their loyal consumers of their smartphone products has been a total discrace to this point.
  • I knew, tried to tell u guys. Enjoying my 950xl since day one
  • I tried too, as it was only logical to think that MS was not going to release a Surface phone anytime soon after the launch of their other flagships. 1) It would kill their efforts with the 950's
    2) mostly everything pointed out to early stages and speculation.
  • But, see.. We don't feel bad about not buying into the 950/XL phones, because time after time, and like the article expresses, these devices are underwhelming, at most. As stated, even MS isn't proud of these devices... We have 1520's, 920's, and 930's.. MS is proud of those devices, and for good reason.. So, I'd have to say we made the right choice by holding out... Especially when you look at the fact that if we did upgrade to a 950 at the time then a lot of us probably wouldn't be able to upgrade in time to get a 950.... So, instead of being stuck with our loved 1520's, and the like, we would be STUCK with a 950.....
    MS's tardiness just saved a lot of fans literally millions of dollars.
  • After leaving my icon and Verizon, I haven't looked back since. Software aside, if the 950 can't be considered an upgrade to the icon, then he iPhone 6 is no better than a iPhone 5, and a galaxy s5 is no better than an s4.
  • I may have had a bad unit, but I have been delighted to ditch my Lumia 930 (particularly because Amazon actually bought it back for a descent price) for the 950XL. The camera on the XL is far and away better than the 930 (again, I may have had a bad one) and I've found W10M to be solid since the recent update. Some apps are still a little slow, but others are now great to use. There is still some polish needed, but this phone will do me fine until I see what the Surface phone looks like.
  • I don't think you had a bad one - I had a 930 after my 1020 and even though the overall experience was WAY better than the 1020 (And I wouldn't have gone back to a phone with 1020 specs/performance) the image quality from the 930 just wasn't great.
  • I don't feel 'stuck' with my 950. I rather like it. I've a new Mozo cover on the way to take care of its pedestrian appearance. If MS makes a spectacular phone next year and I'm in a position to upgrade, I'll find a worthy donour organisation for this phone.
  • I don't think upgrading after roughly 16 months is that unreasonable, I know some people will only upgrade their phone when their contract is up (roughly every two years), but for a lot of people, buying a new one after 16 months would be pretty acceptable if it does something new. My most recent phones were a 1020 (nice camera, crap specs otherwise but liked it at the time a lot), then a 930 (Massive improvement on the 1020 except in the camera department, actually usable performance) and then I got the 950, which I think is genuinely better than the Lumia 930. Holding both in my hands the 930 doesn't feel any nicer, and I'm not bothered about a metal rim around the edge (appreciate some people hate the 950 because it's made of plastic, but their preference). I like that the 950 is bigger yet feels lighter and offers better performance - Plus going from the 1020 to the 930 meant I was disappointed with the quality of images. The images from my 930 were never to my liking. Luckily the 950 is the best of them overall in terms of image quality (Taking into account detail, colour reproduction etc), I do miss the ability to zoom and re-frame on the 1020 but I'll take performance and other image quality improvements over that. I couldn't imagine still using a 920 these days, the performance just isn't there, but hey it's ancient in smartphone terms. When the next Microsoft phone comes out, I'll buy it if I want or need it, or it does something special that I'm interested in, but it won't be because it's metal or anything like that.
  • Amen, so many people winge about the most trivial things... Metal rim, ring around camera etc..... Phones are all about specs and the software. With the 950's the specs are there but sadly the software still isn't. The fact that there can be as many as 20! updates to the software between now and next year is a testament to the amount of holes still in that OS. Whether you bought the 950 or not the argument shouldn't be made that the phones themselves weren't significant upgrades from the ones they were meant to replace because they ABSOLUTELY WERE.
  • I'm not sure about everybody else, but I don't think everybody really looking for metal rim, metal body, sharp corners, etc. It's not really about materials here, it's really how it looks in general, the theme of the design, the character of its looks. Lumia in the past has been mostly plastic, but they do look great and been consistently praised about it despite there were already some metal body phones out there, that didn't stop Lumia to at least stand out in a good way, giving the Windows Phone platform at least some spotlight. I personally don't care if 950 series were plastic, they just really looks like from my friends entry-level Android phone 4 years ago. They share same design THEME, it's not necessarily bad looking but generic instead as the design characteristic were heavily used on many Android ODMs in the past, even now. Before we even go to argument of "phones looks all similar", even with touchscreen smartphones these days, there is still alot of room to make hardware interesting, even small things makes alot of difference. Phones aren't all about specs and software, if it is then why bother designing them aesthetically. Why bother hiring talented designers in all shapes and form to design the phones. Aesthetic is still as important as the internal guts of the product, that's what make the product marketable to everybody. Especially when you are targeting consumers and any people out there, looks is very important, that's why it's always been talked about. This is why 950's being criticized with its stock looks (until replacing it with more interesting 3rd-party shells), despite the fact of it's beastly hardware and standout capabilities like Continuum and Iris Scanner. About the software, well this is really the most critical downside that not just even 950's suffers from. Gladly, the continuous updates on supported phones (even the unfortunate unsupported ones) helps W10M to improve for the better. It's just sad that it wasn't great at the start, which gives any new W10M devices having more bad light with already problematic Microsoft mobile efforts. With these news, it's great to hear more assurance that Microsoft isn't giving up as a whole. Yes, this is still a classic Microsoft's "Soon"/waiting game that we have yet to see how it pays off. This is another bet that we all hopefully wants them to succeed. For now, there is a waiting game and we cannot blame people leaving the platform for now (or ever), it's expected because of bad execution.
  • I must admit that my 930 felt much more solid and premium than my 950xl but I do agree that it's a worthy upgrade on every aspect : Screen, camera, performance,... I also admit that the windows 10 mobile version that came out of the box was a bit flaky but now on the latest Redstone builds, it's really an awesome experience so I'm a happy camper and can recommend the 950xl. Looking forward to whatever Microsoft will bring but I'm sure there are awesome times ahead.
  • Proud of the 930? Seriously? That one was an underwhelming phone in its time! It had the exact same internals as the 1520, and the whole Icon thing confused people until very recently where it didn't get the win10 update. I don't know what w10m fans want hardware wise that's not covered by a top of the line 950 XL, honestly.
  • Definitely. The 950 devices were and still are underwhelming but i have to say regardless of whether they were "proud" of them or not Microsoft should have sucked it up and given them their full support, not the whole hiding them from main conferences, disowning the accessory side and basically trying to bury them resulting in them now having to send emails saying they still support the OS. I was never impressed enough to buy one previously bit now I wouldn't touch one with the proverbial 10 foot barge pole. Yet more mismanagement from the moron crew in Redmond.
  • Lol!! I knew all the people that bought a 950 would DV that even though every damn single word is the truth.. SMDH. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  • Your abuse... Of this... Posture... Is... Stupid.
  • I told you before that if you keep making rude comments to me then I would report you for harassment.. If you don't like my comments then learn to ignore them, but don't reply to me ever again unless you have something mature to say.
    Once again, I already told you that I would report you for harassment yet you continue. Stop now.
  • Have you had any problem with losing Wi-Fi signal?  That is my major complaint on my 950XL.  I can be sitting here and have a super signal from my Gigabit service and all of a sudden the Wi-Fi signal gets lost and I haven't even moved.   And when I tap on Settings, the Wi-Fi Sense says "No Networks Found".  Aggravating to say the least.
  • My 950 does exactly the same. Sometimes it happens after a few hours, sometimes it can keep working for up to a week. I am hoping this gets fixed with each new OS update, but still nothing.
  • Well I have a 950 XL on the way with a free 950   ​The 950s are actually really nice aside from not being metal. Screen wise, spec wise, continuum, etc. they're amazing.    
  • everyone used=s their phones differently.  I use mine to netflix, plex(cant do kodi:((), phone, text whats app, twiter, instagram, you tube, video watching, facebook, 4k video recording, photes and games,  all last year i found issues in windows 10 casue i was in insider but when i left insider i still got some issues, luckly today seems fine but ive seen people on the 950s and ive seen them crash in the early days, ive seen their apps like on my 930 stop working.  I supose thers alot of facters involved.  I like windows mobile 10 but loved 8.1, yeh lots of new features but when im still missing something so basic like gestures beta then theres issues for me.
  • Glad you are enjoying it Akira.  I am enjoying mine too.
  • I don't think it would've mattered too much, especially in the US where we're on yearly, and bi yearly plans. Americans aren't used to paying outright for our phones..
  • we pay by contract in the uk too.  personally its a god send
  • Why are you even here.
  • Yeah, why are you even here?
  • We respect Daniel Rubino, if u don't go somewhere else!
  • That's not a good argument... Lacks substance, and is kinda childish.. If you want to read a good argument, supporting Daniels claims, read mine below...
  • Although you're right in the sense that nothing is officially mentioned,,,, the most logical way of looking at the situation is by odds...
    Daniels sources have been right 99% of the time, so its safe to bet....... ??????? Ummm, yeah.
  • Due to the sensitive nature of how/where I got the information I did not want to reveal too much and yeah, riding on reputation here. That's fine if others want to disregard. I stand by my 950/XL/650 leaks and info, which were heavily accurate. The information here though is solid. We can revisit in the future and see if it changes.
  • @wpkevin. It's apparent that many like yourself don't understand how development works. Be it hardware, software - o/s, game etc. Everything is subject to change even the weather. Such is the nature of life, nothing is "solid":P.
  • Lol... Service packs? Service packs have never gone away and won't. The structure of depolyment has changed. Wow, android apps? Seriously? They would undermine the transtional work from CE to NT and the entire universal app platform to run droid apps? In regards to the no phone being part of the surface line. Well in that case I wonder why phone hardware was moved under Panos Panay... Hmm... :P
  • Hmm, telling someone that you think has already made their mind is presuming their favourite colour is called Pumpkin orange. Utterly naive and presumptious, the surface line bar the initial write down has been success due to the growth of YoY and the influence of the surface of can be seen in many OEM designs. Surface Pro 3 to 4 was incremental, heck that is no different then the annual release from Apple and other OEMs. UWP is more than just phones but It's apparent constructive debate is not what you are after but to troll because you have nothing better to do to that end this comment will be the last. As it's really a circular debate you are after and not one of progressive discussion.
  • Yeah, not sure how you took my comment, or why anyone would DV it, because I just was saying that your track record is 99% perfect.. Lol. I guess they don't like people complementing you.. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  • Lol you got some haters out there!
  • Nah Rodney you're just a nuiscance.
  • Daniel Rubino.... This guy has been harassing me for too long.. I never outright say anything rude to anyone here, and I have warned him not to reply to me unless he has something mature to say.. I don't mind him explaining why he disagrees with me, like an adult, but he just seeks my username out to bully, and degrade me online... I won't stand for it anymore. I have asked him to stop, and he won't, so I am reporting him for harassment. It's unnecessary.
    Please check to see if he is treating any other users with disrespect. We have rights. Thanks.
  • To be honest, 950s are the only phones by Microsoft which looks lik Android phones. WP had its unique design which was taken away when it changed from 'Nokia' to 'Microsoft'. I still love the 730, 1020 designs...
  • Not entirely accurate, but I see what you mean. TBH, even many die hard fans have lost faith in Microsoft's mobile efforts as they were unspoken of for a long time. When someone loses faith it's really, really hard to give it back. For me personally, even if I still love Windows, I made about 20 people buy into Windows Phones as I really saw hope down the road, but lately, when anyone asks me about it I advise them to get a LG or an iPhone. I see and can feel (even without having read this article) that Microsoft is just shifting strategy and I knew for a fact that it is impossible for them to drop mobile. Not because they weren't winning, but because we live in a mobile driven world, and in the long run, Microsoft will definitely lose it's dominance even in desktop, because in 10 years things will shift drastically. Yet, I still see the way they are doing this is wrong. Microsoft have had a very bad publicity for what they've done. I wish if they continued with their mobile efforts the way it was (Lumia 1030) but making changes behind the curtains. They would have kept selling 10 Million devices a quarter, and then bam, A Surface Phone with all what users could ever dream of! This would have kept Microsoft's name in the news, while developers would continue supporting what they know is still living. Bad publicity = worse developer support. UWP will not help of developers saw declining users and bad press all over the internet!
  • Yep, totaly sharing your opinion. They would have small but stable base of users, reaching maybe over 5-7% worldwide and increasing public and developer interest, and now, if they continue like this, they'll hardly have any users at the end of the year. Surface phone will come as much awaited Windows Mobile flagship, but for what audience? If they continue like this, they'll loose existing users and new won't come...
  • Please explain why would a "Surface Phone" magically save Windows 10 Mobile. What would be in such phone, what would make it special and mindblowingly attractive?
  • "the phone that replaced your pc. Period."
  • But wouldn't that cater to a totally different audience than people buying smartphones from Apple or with Android? I mean, *I* would count it as a plus and get one, but it's a bit like Continuum. People already use their smartphone instead of a computer, crappy as iOS and Android might be for anything but apps and social network fads. On one hand it would revolutionize today's computing but it would also mean squat for people who don't use it for work or are outside of the Windows ecosystem. So in a way it's a non-solution, ie, turning the phone into a non-phone. It's a complex issue. Though I have faith in MS's vision and I know they'll deliver something big and fitting, I'm not sure it just boils down to the release of the "Surface Phone"
  • How are PC manufacturers and partners going to feel about this?
    Maybe encourage them to build phones instead?
    Robing Peter to pay Paul?
  • a phone will never replace a PC. PCs are getting bigger and more powerful. phones are getting thinner and lighter, and there's a maximum size beacuse they have to fit in your pocket. windows tablets replaced windows notebooks because they're essentially the same device, the tablet just has the keyboard chopped off. otherwise they're the same components, same focus on portability, same size, same os, etc. a phone might replace a tablet, but it has to solve the size problem. how do you make a device small enough to fit in your pocket but with an 8-11" screen? maybe one day with folding screens, projectors, ultraportable monitors, glasses... but not in 2017. and the SP3 wasn't just the tablet that replaced your notebook. it was very specifically and very importantly "the tablet that can do everything your macbook air can do". photoshop was literally in every single SP3 commercial ever made. windows phone can't make that claim against an ipad, or even an iphone, because they don't run the same apps. there's no technology to allow a phone to replace a tablet, and there's too much of a gap to replace an ios device with a windows phone. both of those facts kill any thought of a surface phone, and there's no solution in sight.
  • "a phone will never replace a PC. PCs are getting bigger..." I disagree. When the Surface can run x86 programs (aka apps) then we won't need towers, all-in-ones, or even HDMI computer sticks. Having access to 16 million x86 programs will put Android's and iPhones 1.5 mill to shame. You'll just need the monitor, k/b and mouse at any location and plug in. I currently have a Nexdock on order that my 950xl will power, giving me a full laptop computer experience without the full weight. There are already computers you can fit in your pocket, and the Surface will usher in a new (r)evolution of full computing anywhere you go. #dropsmic
  • You think a surface will replace the sort of setup I have do you? A dual widescreen desktop running multiple 64 bit apps at the same time including PCB and Drawing cad packages on two screens? For general computing a phone with continuum could suffice but for the sort of thing I and my colleagues use a PC for, not a chance.
  • Please explain why would a "2007 Iphone" magically save Apple. What would be in such phone, what would make it special and mindblowingly attractive?
  • It wouldn't magically do so, but it can save Windows Mobile if it was precieved how an iPhone first did. No one can say for sure what features would that phone have, Microsoft surprised us all with the Surface tablet / laptop, it had many things other devices didn't, and it was executed well enough to gain traction. Microsoft can do the same thing with Mobile, yet, what I was discussing was something else. Current strategy for mobile, is to tract apps through Windows for desktop, as it has many users, while trying to get Windows 10 to as many people as possible to encourage developers. UWP is a good traction for many developers, and most likely this will grow the mobile app store evenly, so when the Surface phone launches it would have a better app store than it currently is. Not to mention that W10M would be more mature, with stability and features, which would mean that on the software side things would be much better (if all that worked out). On the hardware side, I am sure Microsoft would execute it well this time around. Now, what I was discussing was mainly the way they butchered their current mobile efforts! 10 million devices a quarter is definately better than 2.5 million! Publicity wouldn't be as bad as it is now, norm store growth practically stopped after all this bad news. Why do this? They could have shifted to the new strategy while maintaining the last one! This is my point.
  • Its potential success is predicated on three things: App maturation toward UWP and/or bots User behavior change toward dockable workstations Product execution - Win32 app compatibility, appeal, etc Only one of those things is firmly in MS's control, so this is very much guessing at a moving target.
  • It won't save Windows Mobile at all.  Nothing can do that.  It may however get people thinking twice about getting an Android or iPhone based upon the strength of the Surface brand.  This widens the Windows Mobile customerbase and proves that people still want Windows based phones and Microsoft can build upon that.
  • 100% agree...
  • unfortunatly im in the same boat. Ive stoped recomending windows 10 mobile.  Desktop is awsome though.  for me its more to do with the gameing app gap, gestures still missing and ofc no wireless pay, in this day and age thats a bigy for me.  iom geting a s7 edge this year and i know im gona miss live tiles but cortana doing android notifications won me over live tiles, i hope i dont love the edge cause i want to come back to windows one day.  truth is if they dont have the cellular and text from any device working, or wireless pay out of the box in 2017.  If the app gap doesnt close, things like kodi and games then it might be time to move to macs as they work veryu well together but i have strong hope for microsoft, its just that if they let me down in 2017 im gone, ive had 3 years of this and people can only  stayu second class citizans for so long.
  • I bought a 950 a month ago when I heard that Surface Phone is going to be released in 2017. I think it makes sense buying one even right now if you currently have a Lumia which won't support W10M like Lumia 920, 820 or 925. Buy 950, use it for -at least- 2 years, get the latest and greatest W10M experience and then you can get Surface Phone 2nd or 3rd generation. If you have a device which supports W10M like Lumia 640 or 830 then it might make sense to wait a year until Surface Phone is released.
  • That's pretty solid advice.
  • No, the 950 is a joke. Terrible design and a basically boring phone with no apps. And please dont tell me that people only need so many apps because the market has spoken and that is a blind fanboy statement. If they do release a Surface phone it must run android apps or it will fail in the consumer market.
  • People only need so many apps.
  • depends who you are.  Im a 40 year old and i use 27-30 a day.  I have 267 instaled, i garantee if i was in my 20s it would be double or triple.  After only 2 years in windows eco system i can no longer find joy in the gaming app store, its really bad.  compared to apple its mountains away.  Normal app wise isnt that big a gap but its still big.  When you buy that phone controled product from the shops its apple and android, when you want googles apps they arent there(not a issue for me) snapchat is something id like to use.  My banking app is on iphone and i miss it cause my 930 doesnt suport one.  Even vodaphone the people i bought my phone from hasnt suported the phone with a app. II love windows mobile i do, live tiles is fantastic for me.  I love the whole customisation options and tiled mode too.  I love how my windows phone and pc have began to talk to each other lol buit there really is a issue with the app store.  Its time microsft stoped leting anyone into the app store too.  Thers alot of junk in windows store and it really cant afford to be that bad.
  • Yes, true. People only need so many apps.  I got the 950 a few week ago and I have downloaded the 10 apps I need. And also a few games that I really dont need, but are for boring time at the airport. All you need is banking, browser and a few security apps like RSA and Authenticator. And the preinstalled like mail, office, camera, messaging.....
  • Yeah the market has spoken. If you want to sell your phone you need to offer salespeople serious incentives otherwise sales will go nowhere.
  • MS were happy to write off 6 billion for Nokia, how about spending that in marketing and advertising instead?!
    Bet they would be in a far far better space today if they had !
  • Sandboxed apps are not the future of mobile. They're a holdover from the early days of smartphones that didn't have the specs to run web based programs
  • Sandboxed apps are the future of pcs. Security issues are getting way too serious and will only grow from here. It's time to put it all to a rest.
  • i have to agree the design is awful to me.
  • In only need so many apps. Most of which aren't available on Windows 10 Mobile.  
  • I feel sorry for you, you can't have a WM then.
  • with respect, that is just plain myopic and assuming everyone wants the same as you. I probably use only TWO or THREE apps, max. The ONLY thing I want from a phone, or have ever wanted from a phone is the best possible camera phone on the market. Also, I hate Android. The 1020 was a great phone. The canary yellow with black trim was fantastic, and the pics from a 1020 still rival most cameras on phone's today. I am ordering a 950 today, as all I want is a phone to text and make calls, nice sharp display, and finally an outstanding camera. Please allow me the courtesy of knowing what I want from life a little better than you do. :-)
  • Nah, it wouldn't have made any difference. Microsoft doesn't market their phones, and Windows 10 Mobile is the most mediocre OS on the market, a severe downgrade from Windows Phone 8.1 in terms of user experience.
  • I agree, also if they wanna se a boost in sales for the 950, 950xl open it to more carries untill apirl 2017.
  • i would disagree.  First they tried to remove free storage to one drive 2-3 weeks before the 950, this resulted in alot of windows phone users leaving before the 950 even arived but also its even simpler than that.  People dont only want a great app store and ther best speced phone, they also want their phone to be beutiful and premium looking.  Iv held the 950 and its on cheap ass ugly looking plastic piece of dodo, its also got a subpar oled that doesnt go bright enough like the 1520 or the 930 did.  Also to top t off, iris is nice particually on tablet but fingerprint scasner and wireless pay would have been a better move.  Truth is microsoft knew the 950s werent gona sell well, thats the only reason theyd try and dump onedrive changes just before it and well if they were serious theyd have at least made it more like the mid ranged 650, thats what the 950 should have looked like and its a hell of alot cheaper. I know some people like the 950 but it isnt that many and its cause its god dam cheap looking, it is that simple. Its not just about spec, it has to look great too.  See galaxy edge s7 and check their sales out, i bet its one of the highest selling phones this year.
  • The 950 display actually has quite high maximum brightness. Additionally, I've dropped my 950 several times and it's fine, but many people are discovering that their S7 can't even be kept in their pocket without being scratched up or broken.
  • If we knew Surface phone would be released in 2017 and it would be better than the 950/XL, we would WAIT for the Surface phone and therefore the 950/XL would sell even less than it has so microsoft didnt give any real info on what the Surface phone would be like. What's 1 year when you can have a much better phone.
  • I am not tracking your conclusion - can you explain the rationale?
  • As a person who has a 920, I immediately knew the so-called "surface phone" (generation one; underwhelming, poor battery life) was going to be years down the line. So I immediately bought the 950XL, should last at least 3 years.
  • Being an Insider is going to be fun this year :D
  • Yes a lot of builds coming our way already :)
  • And Build 14332 just went live :-)
  • Wooaaaa a year..
  • That's understandable. I expect Surface line to be announced. I mean, several types of one device for different people needs. Not everyone wants/needs 8 cores, 4GB of Ram etc. If they release one high end phone like with 950's, they'll shot their leg again.
  • It's not like the Surface line extends from an affordable 2GB RAM Surface 3 sold without Type Cover to a $3000+ maxxed-out Surface Book or anything.
  • Surface is the hardware brand, not a specific piece of hardware.
  • Not gonna waste my time arguing with deliberately obtuse people. If you cannot understand what a brand is, that's not my problem. Posted from Bikini Bottom via my Pineapple PineBook XPS 13"
  • They could be on to something in the business market though, right now you go buy a Surface and you can choose the same chassis but with different specs inside (as it's always been with computers pretty much) Most companies release a phone with 1 set of specs. You can buy an iPhone 6s or the SE but they are two different phones that both look different and have different specs. It would be something slightly different to release phones which look the same from the outside, but internally are different - Some might support Windows Hello and have 6GB of RAM, whilst another might only have 3GB of RAM. IT departments are used to purchasing hardware like this, I think it's worth a shot and would work out better than releasing budget, mid and flagship devices. Honestly though, I'll just buy whichever device I want at the time and not worry about what the media are saying about it - I know I've made an informed decision with my purchases so it's easier not to worry about what WC or anybody else (like comments) think
  • One thing is for sure though, any "Surface Phone" won't suddenly resurrect Windows Phones in the consumer market, nor would that be the aim of such a device IMO - But some comments here do talk about it as if it's the device that will change the consumer market share of these devices - In reality they are excited because it will probably have a metal body.
  • THIS, +950. People have faith and are excited at the prospect of a ""Surface Phone"" but nobody seems to be sure why. If a metal body is enough, boy would that be an easy job for MS. I doubt that (all) people are so simple. Some of us care for what's INSIDE a functional piece of hardware rather than its shell.
  • There ought to be Surface Phone bets with real money.  I wonder what the quoted odds for an April 2017 release would be in the betting markets?  Based on the recent articles, Dan and Windows Central would be 100% all in, right?  ;)
  • I'm REALLY happy with the newest build on my 640 XL... This is going to be such an exciting time.  And hearing their commitment and plans for Redstone 2 and 3 is focusing with Mobile innovation is making me jump in my seat! :D
  • It's gunna be a bit of a wait sadly, but I just hope it'll be worth it :) it's good to hear at least that the mobile platform will get it's development spotlight sometime in the future :D +640 on Windows10Mobile
  • 4 months into 2017 isn't that long to wait tbh....At the time I'll see what they come up with. I know I won't be replacing my Surface Pro and certainly not my Desktop PC with a phone at that point, but I can see the potential for clients and others that have lighter workloads. Running apps remotely isn't something new in the business world, but doing it on a phone really is. I just hope that Microsoft can stay ahead of the competition in this regard. They need to push forward with their Continuum plans before Google do something similar - I say Google because I don't see Apple pushing forwards in this area, they don't tend to be the first in to most things and do tend to hold back until later. Just look at NFC - They introduced it way later than Android and Windows Phone but they got Apple Pay out at the same time and did give NFC a real use for the general consumer. (A lot of users don't know/care what NFC is, but they know what Apple Pay is) Excited to see what Microsoft come up with, and as I've always planned I'll replace my 950 with their new phone if it does something new that I can benefit from
  • Just a question of whether developers want to wait that long, and whether there's enough incentive for them to come back afterwards.
  • Awesome April 2017 - sounds like a build launch. Personally I'd prefer a x86 / x64 dock that is capable of working with ARM based with phones inconjunction increase the collective performance. Unless these x86/x64 socs totally demolish ARM in every aspect I don't see them taking off any time soon. As reliance on our phones increases to put that it must power a larger screen experience so does the need to have a device that can at least last a full work day under pretty much constant screen on time. I don't see that happen with the current x86 / x64 offerings yet. Maybe next years generation but I am not holding my breath.
  • Exactly. Continuum is a boondoggle. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • @wpkevin, who said anything about $400 dock? If a person wants to spend that much they will - hence why premium brands exist. Sure docks could be sold at that price just as docks can be bought for sub $100. Heck even if a person is so inclined they could build their own dock. Your creativity is only limited by knowledge, imagination, field of perception and foresight.
  • To put your arbitary figure that you plucked out of thin air into perspective :). You can buy an AMD apu for next to nothing brand new. You can also buy a xeon for next to nothing (used). Same with infiband cards (brand new anx used). These are just consumer prices, furthermore you have VIA who also make x86/x64 chips not just INTEL or AMD. Also you have the OMAP transition to embedded solutions. So like i said there could be very well be $400 docks (premium brands) or sub $100.
  • At least I have plenty of time to save up money :)
  • Thanks Daniel, I always appreciate your inside perspectives. I hope that one key aspect of the focus on productivity will be revamped input methods. Pen support to take advantage of windows Ink, together with some sort of adaptive physical keyboard would change how useful the phone is for those uses.
  • 2017 is too far away, how do I fast forward time?
  • DeLorean...
  • Nah, a TARDIS. Not only go forward in time but jump to the head of the line. Plus the ladies dig the mad man in a big blue box.
  • Save the surplus money over those months so that you won't yell "OVER-PRIIICED" when the phones are out!
  • You can't, but you can enjoy your time and have a happy life :)
  • Click! ... consider the downsides first!
  • Buy a 950 XL.
  • Going into deep sleep? And you woke up, Here's the Surface Phone in front of
  • You have to buy Quantum Break to do that.
  • If they're not proud of the 950 & 950XL I hope they do some sort of trade in/heavy discount for people who bought those devices.
  • They may. Just a couple weeks ago they were offering a trade-in for my 920 for $150. Not too bad for such an old phone, but I'm still reluctant to give that up - that was one impressive WP8 device when it was released.
  • LOL a great article about nothing. The only news is that we go from a early 2017 to maybe april 2017. Well enjoying my lumia 950 meanwhile.
  • Um.. the Redstone news is news.
  • False. (1) April timeframe (2) Redstone 3 (3) Redstone 2 & 3 are mobile-focused (4) Goals of Surface phone to be most secure and aimed at productivity (5) Confirmation of Win32 apps somehow running on the device. If you missed all of that I can't help you, but you would certainly fail a quiz on this article.
  • About 1 I said it, all the rest is generic headlines with no content adding to the speculation. Anyway as long as you create some good hype on the site I am all for it after all these months it's good to have back some optimism from you ;)
  • Isn't (4) more or less what they have been indicating/saying all along though?
  • ...(6) heavily pen-centric (7) not going to be marketed as a phone but as a connected mini-tablet(s), that can make phone calls too (8) all-inclusive onedrive space for life of device...
  • On the surface, running Win32 apps on Continuum sounds great but I hope they will only run Win32 apps that are ported to UWP using project Centennial and if possible only those apps that are sandboxed enabled.
  • Hmmmm... I found it quite interesting. I don't know the tech field, but there was a lot of information in this story. Daniel did his homework, and the story has already been quoted elsewhere.
  • The point is not that this article doesn't contain information. The point is very few things in the article can be considered news, they are just minor details confirming old "news". It is more a recap than news: -april timeframe instead of early 2017 -> I say early 2017 is still more correct since they really can't know the month one year before reease , -there will be an update after redstone and it will be called redstone 3 -> well maybe we didn't know the name and it could be temporary too -future updates will be mobile focused -> it creates some hype but it is an empty statement for now -security and productivity marketing speech-> we call this news now? :D -win32 apps on the phone -> hopefully but the writer himself says that it's not very clear if they are going to achieve that or how, we already knew they were trying to accomplish that, we stand at the same point So what I meant to say, this just looks like an hype article with no facts and a lot of speculation, but in a industry which lives on hype it's ok to have these kind of articles I'm all for it. But for us people who follow Windows news after reading the article we didn't learn almost anything of substance.
  • Not how I read it. This one relays an insider's perspective on what MS is already starting to do behind the scenes, and it makes perfect sense, as opposed to a lot of the irrational reactions we've been seeing around the internet for a while, heightened with the release of quarterly numbers. I'm not sure what you want from a report on future doings. By its nature these are things that have not happened yet. You can't expect a retrospective on the future. IMO, this was the first concise look at MS strategy, and as much as you want concrete evidence, you'll have to wait until it happens and then employ hindsight.
  • About the first part of your reply: we are saying the same thing, this article is good to adress all the haters / dihonest writers out there which gave their own interpretations. We who followed news about this already knew 99% of this that's all I'm saying, I'm not against this article, I just expected something new :)   About the second part of your reply: a report on future doings must have some details in it to be interesting. It's not about evidence it's about being more than empty headlines! 
  • Lord. There is nothing worse than when a company sells you a product, then publicly diss the product they took your hard earned money for.
  • How is internal information I acquired a public diss? Had I not wrote this article you would never have known about it. I passed on internal info that Microsoft would not approve of me publishing because of the perceived slight you mention.
  • There has been many "hints" that they didn't think it was up to snuff. How have you been though? Long time no talk...
  • Lol!you got issues with Daniel?
  • Nope, I find him charming
  • im not a fan of the 950 but microsoft was very clear thaty the 950 was really onmly for windows fans and owners currently.  they said this before they released the 950.  So the company was up front for a change and honest about it.  Shame it was weeks after the onedrive situation.  Nothing like terrible press to stop the sales of your products lol.
  • Oh wow you didn't plan carefully then? Must be someone elses fault, must be.
  • FFS... Don't go through the entire thread spamming every comment, let it rest already, poor netiquette for the other folks sub'd to the thread. If you have something of substance to say, by all means say it... But just engaging in the silly "*** for tat" that dominates, makes you no better than any of the posters you're going after, worse in fact.
  • Well I love my 950 even if Microsoft doesn't…
  • I think the 950 is great now, TBH. I think the issue Microsoft has, in reflection, is how the 950 came out with software not-yet-ready. Shoot, in 3 more months I know the 950 will be even more fun. Still, you can't take away that in terms of raw design the phone could be better.
  • It is a good phone and considering there is still 1 year until Surface Phone, buying a Lumia 950 was a good investment. It is actually a good investment even now if you have an older generation Lumia like 920, 820 or 925 which won't benefit from the latest updates to W10M.
  • Can't even imagine what it would be like to still be using a 920 - I get why some people do, or have no choice to but I'd have replaced that with a 650 or mid range Android by now to get some performance improvements.
  • Sorry, but no mid-range Android device is offering a performance improvement over a Lumia 920 running WP8.1. I have a high-end Android--a Galaxy S6, merely a few months old--that I am forced to use for work, and it sucks. Just awful. My nearly three-year-old Lumia 928 (itself, only 1/2 a year younger than the 920) on WP8.1 runs circles around my Galaxy S6.
  • Luvin my 925. Beautiful build quality, smooth as a baby's bum.
    Can't see me buying a beta 950 anytime soon.
  • If Lumia 925 with current W10M or WP8.1 fulfills your needs then sure. But you won't be getting Redstone (which will be released half a year earlier than Surface Phone) which has lots of goodness in it. Also I used Lumia 820 (which has the same processor with Lumia 925) with latest W10M build for a long time and performance difference with 950 is huge. + 950 has longer battery life, better camera, better front camera, bigger screen, bigger memory (so that you can switch between open browser tabs faster for example). But these features are not important to everybody, so I understand if you don't urgently need them.
  • My 925 is new, paid $180 for it. Happy as a pig in poo.
    Happy to wait and see what transpires with WP over the nnext 18 months. My Zune, 4 HD DVD players and 4 RT Surfaces scream at me to wait this time.......and so does she who must be obeyed!
  • Personally, I think the word 'investment' and phone purchases shouldn't be used in the same sentence. ;-]
  • Hi Daniel, good to see you following comments on your article. I'm just curious as to why you prefer the Lumia 950 over the 950XL? I myself went from the 1520 to the 950XL and I appreciate the lighter weight and the slightly smaller display (mostly the narrower width) which makes it easier to handle. I'm not sure I could go from 6" down to 5.2".
  • I have had some business in downtown Munich today. I could not help to do a bit of market research there
    ​and went to a T-Mobile shop (at Marienplatz, 2 min from the Apple store)
    to check whether they had the Lumia 950s on display. As a matter of fact the 950 and the 950XL were on display prominentely. I asked the sales clerk: "Do those Microsoft 950s really sell ??"
    and I expected a citical response (and then recommend the iPhone and Android phones).   Interestingly, I got "Oh, yes, they really sell quite well" as an answer.
    I was almost shocked to hear that, that was quite unexpected.
    "We also have a lot of customers who come into the shop and specifically ask for the Lumia 950/XL." I were quite baffled.
    I then checked all the other available smartphones and the T-Mobile shop also had the other lumias on display
    albeit along with many Android phones. I was prepared for something like
    "Yes, we have Microsoft phones, why don't you check out the iPhone and some of those Androids, that's what most people do." So all is not lost for W10M,
    at least not at the Marienplatz in Munich. 
    Prost!   :-) 
  • Great to heard that! I was in Munich some years ago, and Lumia 920 was hidden somewhere in the stores...  And the sellers guide you to Android or iOS.
  • Anecdotals are great but when will all these 950 and 950 XL being sold begin showing up in the phone market research for Windows Phone usage?  The phones been selling for 5 months already.
  • Here in the ol' USA, California to be specific, I went to the TMO shop and asked for a Windows Phone.  Without a hiccup they took me to the one phone they had, the Fierce.  They were actually excited to show it to me, and had nothing but good things to say.  As much as some people here what to find all the negatives they can, I dont think its as bad as they surely want it to be.. Again, some here just have a personal issue with Microsoft and are blinded by thier anger...
  • Reckon most people here regard WPs as being great.
    Think we are all just p-issed that MS support has been so poor. Gross mismanagement for many years for what is a stella product.
  • Agree, it's a great phone. Sent from an alien space ship with a Lumia 950
  • I d have bought one if it was in a more premium body.  Ithink the specs are great, its just the body casing to me isnt flagship quality.  Now if the phone was 300 dollors then the story would be different but when i buy a flagship, which is the only ones i buy then i dont mind spending the extra money to get the best.
  • Just need to work in the car and if stick with it. Hope they have something to say on that soon.
  • I love the way my 950 and Cortana work with my noise-cancelling Bluetooth headset (a VXI "Xpressway" model). Cortana and the BT headset are not as nice as a real "car play" integration, but it works extremely well, and it works right now, with no third party apps. Perhaps one can consider that combo a "bridge" to a full-on car-play integration, if and when MS ever gets around to that. But for me it's truly a godsend, keeps my driving safe, hands-free, and far more productive. I have read some postings here and there on the internet by Android fans and iPhone fans that their phones ​ do the same thing as Cortana does with voice commands (via Google Now and Siri), replying to texts via voice, etc., but so far none of them have explained HOW to get their phones to do that, and none of my family or friends with Android/iOS know anything about it. The local Verizon corporate store people could not make the Moto Droid Turbo 2 do it. So as far as I can tell right now, only Cortana is the real deal when it comes to easy, automatic productivity & safety in the car, just by pairing a WP8.1 or W10M phone to a good quality, noise-cancelling BT headset.  
  • i was with iphone for 6 years and i loved siri, i use voise assistant all the time even on my desktop.  Apart from miusic itunes serarches siri has nothing on cortana, cortana is simply fantastic and it keeps going from streangth to strength.  I think microsoft has always exelled with voice comands even back in the windows xp days and cortana proves how good they have goten at it.
  • Whatever that change is, I am ready. Posted from Windows Central App for Windows 10 on Lumia 950
  • I just can't wait for the Panos phone.
  • Phone numbers have to be updated. More info
  • If the hp x3s are a hit this summer Microsoft might not released that surface phone they don't want to turn away their partners
  • Partners probably already know about the Surface Phone.
  • Lots are given to all people. More Info
  • Mostly partnership business is not for future. Learn More Info
  • you´re thinking in the lumia line, surface is a different beast, meant for enthusiasts, developers and to show OEM design guidelines. is more akin to the google´s nexus line that to the lumias.
  • maybe thats why they didnt push the 950 or make it metal, maybe they wanted to give other manufactoers some space to creat windows phones lol.  That would also make alot of business sence.
  • More are good to scan people.
  • I'm not cheering until they deliver. ¬_¬ Posted from WC for W10 running on my 930.
  • Thanks for let us know.
    We were discussing privately about when you would cheer...
  • Np, with your questions answered i bet you will have some nice sleep tonight. Posted from WC for W10 running on my 930.
  • Nothing here to see folks. Just another delay from October 2016 to early 2017 to April 2017. And just another diss at their own product (950 and 950XL). As you people always say, if Surface phone is not the savior, just wait for the next year, and the year after that.
  • Personally, I'm more excited about the prospect of a company trying something radically new and different. Look at Surface Book, Surface Pro 3/4, and HoloLens. Tell me that the same group who made those things couldn't make an interesting mobile phone. Lumia 950 and XL, as I have said before, is not made by that group. But hey, if it's just a shiny, craptacular device, then that's a shame.
  • Yes, it's this kind of innovation and "radical newness" (That's a thing I assure you) that will have me buying their next phone to replace my 950. I won't have a problem buying a new Microsoft phone in April 2017 if it's more than just a phone with relevant CPU and RAM for the time, along with a metal body. That won't change how much I do like the 950 either, when I bought the 950 every other company is just selling shiny, craptacular devices anyway so it's not like there was an alternative that does something special....That alternative could be Microsofts new phone next year.
  • personally i love my lumia 930 i wish their design was closer to that and even though im not a fan of the 950 it does have nearly the perfect specs.  Stick in a fingerprint scanner, wireless pay and a metal body and it would be for me close to perfection.  Im not too fussed about the latest processor or the latest resolution, especially if it runs butter smooth on lower spec or even fantastic on a lower resolution.  I just hope when microsoft releases their next flagship phone they dont take away the sd slot or oled screen but give it a metal body.  I hope they realise the 950 specs were great on date of release its the body that neds sorting and  a finger print scaner, wireless pay plse.
  • What everyone is losing here is the fact that hardware is notr the problem with Lumia phones. Wake up! Windows 10 Mobile is crap. Put the current update on a future Surface Phone and you will be talking again about another craptacular device. Wake up people, you easily forget! 950XL is octacore and overall great device what more would you need? An Intel chip? Well, if that makes you happy, be my guest...
  • Other than the early software issues, what is so disappointing about the Lumia 950/xl? I don't own one, so if an owner wouldn't mind explaining, that would be helpful Posted from Windows Central for Windows 10
  • I will say that originally it felt cheap. Not how a flagship device should be but once I changed my cover to the Mozo ones, not only am I a lot happier, the phone gets noticed quite often. I've had windows mobile since the early days of 7 and with the exception of the 925 which was my favorite, this one is now my favorite.
  • I think iris scanner is another disappointment, a wasted money on hardware which does not work very well. I don't think they are going to put iris scanner to Surface Phone. One other disappointment might be the design. Although I think it feels and looks better than Samsung Galaxy S series, I agree that it is below Nokia standards. Other than that the hardware does not have serious problems, I think.
  • on a phone it seems useless to me but on a tabvlet a surface pro 4 the iris scanner is great.  Its the perfect us of it.
  • Surface Pro has face recognition not iris recognition, they are different technologies. But I agree the idea works better on a tablet or laptop or desktop where you are definitely looking at the device while turning it on
  • Fantastic!!! Exactly as I always saw the Mobile strategy for W10 Mobile
  • Terry Myerson confirms all WP8.1 devices will get WM10
  • Lol! I will take that as joke of the year
  • lol but you know what, as much as ive had issues with microsoft  in 2015 this is not one of them, actually it shows that for a change they have been very brave and they havent released windows 10 on devices that work badly or not to a good qwuality lvl.  They knew people would mention this but truth is they are doing whats best for phone users and a bugy os phone combination is a bad idea.  So full respect to them.  Thks for pointing that out.  microsoft defo deservce credit for changing their stance in the face of adversity.
  • Considering the Decline trend of Microsoft phones I would not give Microsoft to go ahead with the launch of such a device due to various reasons. -Microsoft should stick with the name Microsoft on mobile,so the phone will bear Microsoft Surface as a name.This helps to attract more clients and at the same time hold more.Same way when you want to be popular you have to stick with one name until you are popular enough to change without affecting others. -Microsoft should have in mind the changing trends,thus should give a device that will cater for future changes.And by change I mean Small PC/Phablets that offer same services as a PC. -Two devices should be released Probably Microsoft Surface(High-End device) and another Microsoft device(Low-End) this will ensure Microsoft caters for the low earning and high earning . -Microsoft should review their OS to allow developers to take full advantage just like in Android,I.e. Developers have been complaining they can't give 100% services as Microsoft has limited their access to the API and OS. These are just my views
  • I agree with most of what you said with the exception of the last point about handing over more control of the OS to developers.  There is such a thing as too open and you don't want to have to run anti-virus software on your handset the way people do with Android.  Since MS is focusing on security and the enterprise, it woyuld be unwise to go too far into "open" territory as that would disqualify the handset from use.  Android does not have a foothold in the corporate world because of too many security holes and too many software incarnations due to it's openness.
  • Sadly they can't give full access to devs like android do because otherwise we'd have the same security risks android do. Potential virus-ridden apps etc or info phishing apps disguised as a official app. There's a fine line between how much devs want and the privacy of consumers. However I do understand your views though :) +640 on Windows10Mobile
  • Seriously though, how many years do we have to wait until they 'get it right'? Windows Phone has been around long enough now that we should now be using a cohesive, stable, strong, universal ecosystem and we're just not.
  • Reading the article the answer is simple: about 1 year.
  • They got it right with my 920, still rocking it!
  • My 1020 with 8.1 is still great for everything. I cannot understand 950 and Win Mobile does better!!!!
  • Forever.
  • April 2017 BLUFFING.
    That's all I'm saying, I'm not going to sell MS out completely.
  • So... Bad time to buy a 950?
  • Yeah,I would advise to wait and get the HP Elite x3
  • Depends on your financial situation, of course.
  • And still, your carrier. :/ I think this is something Microsoft needs in order to be successful with a surface phone. I will be so bummed when its an att exclusive...
  • I surely hope that Microsoft is not so foolish as to make a Surface Phone a carrier exclusive, especially if they're marketing it as a business device. A plurality of businesses (and consumers, for that matter) in the U.S. are on Verizon and they aren't going to switch. It needs to be on Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, U.S. Cellular, and whatever other major networks are out there. And then it needs to do those same things for carriers in other countries as well. Many things held back WP's success over the past few years, but one of them was, without a doubt, stupid carrier exclusivity. People can't buy your phone if they can't buy your phone. Only two phones actually sell anything: iPhone and Galaxy. They have these traits in common: 1. they are heavily, heavily, heavily promoted, 2. they are on nearly all carriers, 3. they receive consistent, annual upgrades (customers like predictability, not uncertainty). Microsoft must do those three things for Surface Phone--and, really, Windows Mobile--to succeed.
  • I agree with this but think it doesn't go far enough. While I think carrier exclusives are a bad idea, they are better than the phone not being available on any carrier at all. There are a number of countries where you can't buy the 950 on any carrier. Windows phone has never been a great seller on US carriers; but Blackberry is in even worse shape and they still managed to get their latest phone on all the major networks in the US including in store promotions and adversising. As much as I think Microsoft has bungled the hardware and software part of Windows Phone, the sales and marketing side has been a much bigger failure.
  • ​There is still 1 year until Surface Phone. If you have older generation Lumia phone like 920, 820 or 925 which won't get W10M updates then you can certainly consider Lumia 950 because W10M will get lots of updates in one year which will improve the experience significantly. You can use Lumia 950 for 2 or 3 years and then get 2nd or 3rd generation Surface Phone. If you have a newer generation Lumia which is going to get W10M updates like Lumia 640 or 830 for example, then you can wait.
  • @ZuLuuuu  ^This. 2nd gen "Surface Phone". Redstone 1 will get the 950/XL to where it should have been to start. Then it will be very usable for 2017+.
  • Well it's good to hear some encouraging news from probably the only site that has any for windows mobile. I hope this surface phone is the real deal premium device and please add finger print scanner in addition to iris, iris is okay but finger is faster and something that would be used more than iris.
  • Great. Another year of 'the sky if falling down' Windows 10 Mobile articles. Thank goodness Daniel doesn't fall into that camp.
  • I was recently going to write that article, because yeah, it's going to be a long year lol.
  • Yeah I so sick of' 'the other site' that constantly takes glass-is-half-empty view on everything.
  • Yeah they (and reddit) are pretty friggin' worthless.  
  • I think the appeal of the surface phone will not be the phone itself but its laptop accesory. Imagine a super thin laptop where instead of a trackpad you have a hole the size of your phone. You put the phone there and use the screen as a trackpad. The crazy surprise would be that you can flip on its axis and use it as a tablet as well (that's be crazy awesome). But for something like this to work, the continuum's interface needs to be able to match a regular windows 10 laptop's. That means Windowed apps, a desktop, a full start menu, tablet mode, transparency, etc. This has to do with a bigger picture in my opinion, because there are two things happening at the moment: - Intel is getting each day closer to putting an x86 core M on a smartphone (they are already testing it) - Arm chips are getting powerfull enough to soon start competing with Core i chips. So Windows 10 and Windows mobile need to just become Windows x86 and Windows ARM. The form factor needs to stop being a factor. Windows ARM on a laptop should look just like Windows x86 on a laptop, and x86 on a phone should look just like ARM on a phone. Microsoft will have to eventually create a UI that is fully adaptive to the screen you are looking at, no matter the processor inside. With this, Windows can redefine what mobile computing is. Imagine something like an ATM powered by a windows phone. The IT guy can access any of them like you would access any remote desktop (the idea is for a Windows phone to look like any desktop computer when accessed via remote desktop). Not only that, but if one of the devices is failing you simply unplug the phone from the ATM, plug a new one and that's it. Phones can become modular processing units that adapt to whatever device you are  plugging them to.
  • "I think the appeal of the surface phone will not be the phone itself but its laptop accesory. Imagine a super thin laptop where instead of a trackpad you have a hole the size of your phone. You put the phone there and use the screen as a trackpad."
    I told Mark that idea a few months ago. Once you see how in Continuum the phone acts like a trackpad and you look at how Surface Book with dGPU works, it kind of lends itself to that concept. We'll see!
  • yeap! Maybe they have two models for the laptop shell: One with an x86 processor that is only used for win32 apps and a more affordable one without the x86 chip. I still imagine that microsoft will try to have a super cheap laptop shell with a super cheap continuum enabled phone (or as affordable as possible) for education and developing countries. Developing countries is specially something they can focus on. I'm from argentina, and in my country we have a program where every kid gets a laptop and after finishing school they get to keep it. It has been proven that this doesn't improve the students education at all, failing as an education project, but it still a success to introduce kids to technology that they normally wouldn't be able to afford. If instead of giving them laptops like they do now they gave the kids a continuum phone and a laptop shell, their first introduction to modern technology would be with a laptop AND a phone. That'd be great! ALSO: I vote "Surface Go" as the phone name, and "Surface Go Book (or just Go Book)" for the laptop shell. And then they can say things like "smartphones are dead, the future is the Go PC" or something like that, They need a new name for this modular mobile computing future, and it needs to be something that replaces the concept of a smartphone.
  • Well that's why I mentioned a core M as a smartphone chip. If the phone is not as powerful as an 820 (or 830 in 2017) it won't work as the flagship it is supposed to be.
  • @ javigimenezratti. Power is just one of the many sides of the argument.
  • Yes, but we are talking about a device that it is supposed to run two screens and provide a smooth laptop experience. As a combo (phone+laptop shell) it will probably try to compete/replace $800 to $1000 ultrabooks. It needs to be as good as using one of those. Also: I know nothing about this phone so what the hell am I talking about?
  • The snapdragon 820 should handle that okay however when it comes to multitasking that's when we will see how it really performs. If it is able to replace high end ultrabooks or not. But yeah you need to take into account heat dissipation it's well and good in sticking a crazy SOC in there but if it melts the phone whilst being used as a "PC" via continuum then that would defeat the purpose. Furthermore you need to take into account that phones have smaller battery capacities than upper tier ultrabooks which you mentioned via your price range of $800 to $1000 :).
  • Works for me. By the time the Surface phone comes out, my 950 will be ready to be replaced. Posted from Windows Central for Windows 10
  • ok so Microsoft has the rest of this year to finally kill the Lumia brand, to clear the way for 2017 so they will come back to the mobile space en force with the Surface brand. i don't anticipate any more Lumia phones released this year or the next or ever. honeslty that's a good thing...consumers never caught the Lumia brand  but they do know the Surface brand
  • What I like about this post that you take whole windows community by strom with just mentions of surface phone.
  • Surface phone will not help the platform, having the best hardware and lack of software is what continues to cause windows phone to fail. After all the failed attempts Microsoft still does not get it. The best solution was the android emulation and they killed the last opportunity for windows phone to be good by scrapping it. They need to be wise in making decisions for the platform, no amounts of gimmicks like continium will help. Unless its full windows and not mobile windows amd even then android apps are still necessary
  • Focus outside of the consumer market as well though. In a business environment if there's reason enough to we can build LOB apps around these devices and their unique features. In that environment Snapchat doesn't often rank high up there.
  • iOS has the same amount of apps, why bring any app from two different places, twice, when you'll just end up with one versión of it workimg!
  • i know i wont use continum but i also know alot of people that would as the phone is their only pc and its not for me.  So i have to disagree with you there.  Actually windows software on desktop is awsome and itll be a key reason why people would buy the surface phone.  Hell my lumia 930 runs well and linked to my desktop pc its great and redstone is only gonea make it even greater.  So even without continum thers more than enough goodies here. Yes app store needs more apps but that will come when people start buying windows phones.  But then you have desktop users too and laptop users and tablet usrs all on windows 10 all using universal apps.  Wow how can you not see increased sales and incresed app development for the platform.  I personally dont want androdi apps on a windows phone, just like i dont want iphone apps on a android phone.  Windows is all about live tiles not icons so a icon baseed app would move to the back of the que for me.  Pivoting gets my atention in apps as it fits nicely into the windows platform.  Truth is androd apps belong on androic , iphone apps belong on iphone and well windows apps belong on windows devices, its that simple, You design for the platform your using.
  • @hendry  I agree. Good and reasonably priced W10 2in1s are going to help sell "Surface Phones" (aka. mini Surface tablets) to consumers, not "me too" Android emulation.  Continuum is going to be mainly focused on Enterprise and Office (pretty low power requirements) for the next decade, probably. I'm still on W7 at work as are many, many others. MS is working hard to improve W10 and how it works on 2in1s. That is critical to their survival and W10M can only be follow-on for them right now, given their dismal market share and app situation. What would be the point for MS to emulate Android? Why wouldn't I just buy a Nexus? MS is already investing heavily in their Android apps to draw in users to their sphere of influence.
  • Just the news I've been waiting for. I have my 950XL to get me through until then. Already saving my money. I'm just hoping one of the Surface Phones is a true core one. Even if it's just a core M. That's where my minimum expectations are for what I want.
  • Exactly. I already have a 950XL and a Surface Pro 4. Hardware isn't tops on my list right now.
  • The question is, how soon will Microsoft be able to get this information out to app developers with another promise of "hold on, the hardware is coming"? I'm hoping the 3rd party outreach will ramp up to keep devs in line for yet another year. I'll be buying one next April regardless.
  • Hopefully they will be available right after announcement.
  • I am an Android-User but I am strangely interested in Windows Phone and follow what is hapening with the plattform. I find it quite funny that so many people still haven't lost faith in Microsoft. It is the same story again and and again and again: "It will get better with Windows Phone 7.5, It will get better with Windows Phone 8, It will get better with Windows Phone 8.1, It will get better Windows 10 Mobile" – No, it won't get better. Microsoft has lost. Which is sad, cause the mobile space needs a third choice. 
  • sorry meant to write this here...and what's even funnier is that the dilusional WP fans keep defending this idea of "it willl get better" year after year and after five years I think the platform is at its worst decline lol
  • Im still dilusional and why, because after 6 years on all the iphones i got bored, after using a s4 and a old disire acer android i found windows mobile to be exellen.  Live tiles is just so much better to me than icon based home scren.  Live tiles is the reason i still live in a state a delusion.  However on desktop windows 10 is by far the best os i have ever used and once its polished and gets all the extras its gona exell.  I think its prety awsome today.  Mobile is enjoyable in 10 but truth is until gestures beta comes back, wireless pay works and well hamburger menu is removed or at least lowered down on the phone then 8.1 mobiel is my favorite mobile os ever.  Win 10 for desktop. Strangly i know alot of people like you who all wanted nothing to do with windows 10 and after kinda forcing them onto 10 desktop or tablets they all love it.  I dont think ive ever known a time in windows history where the rate amongst my friends in their love of windows os is 100% casue it really is whenm it comes down to the desktop os.  If microsoft can get everything they have said then this is going to be a mac competitor .  Truth is if the app gap wasnt so prominent i think alot of iphone users would move over because of live tiles.  It took 1 day for me to be converted.  Unfortunatly on mobile they do need to get more apps.  Windows 10 needs to be a small black and white logo next to iphone and android logo in shop products then windows will make it lol.
  • On one hand you claim there needs to be a third choice. On the other, you claim MS has lost, even though they are still actively pursuing development. If there is indeed going to be a third choice, keep in mind it would actually start from a place worse than MS.
  • i loved windows 8.1 but untill i have gestures beta back and wireless pay option mobile 10 for me is a like not a love, but it is very good.
  • I believe in MS, win 10 mobile build .218 is the best OS for me. Posted via the Windows Central App
  • Nice to hear but basically nothing new. Wait another year for an awesome phone and W10 to improve. Guess I'll keep using my L830 and hold out for the Elite x3 too unless MS wants to fire sell me a new 950 XL for $249 or less sometime this summer!
  • and what's even funnier is that the dilusional WP fans keep defending this idea of "it willl get better" year after year and after five years I think the platform is at its worst decline lol
  • Well, W10M does get better. By the month if you will.

    And, btw, Apple's iPhone numbers have been reported to declining.   
  • Yeah, and you know what? People like you just won't DIE already.
  • Holy crap, somebody cited Windows Central as a source instead of the other way around ;) P.S I do like to use WC as my central source for news, so I'm glad they report things from other sites.
  • ZDNet, Thurrott, Winbeta, and many other sites have cited us. We have been on TechMeme a few times this year.
  • Good to know they're still in the mobile game, but... April 2017? That's an eternity in terms of technology. I'm hard resetting my Lumia right now. Unless 1) the battery life returns to the same duration as with WP 8.1; 2) apps stop randomly closing (including MS apps) and 3) the phone stops randomly rebooting sometimes... I think I'll go Android for some time and wait.
  • Just curious - what phone and W10M version are you on?
  • L930 on .218. I'll see how it behaves for the next days.
  • This time I am genuinely happy it is really © Coming Soon! It is Still Ahead®, and I cannot wait.
  • I think W10 pc has enough updates and could be mature enough by June Redstone1 release this year. MS should roll out forward Redstone 2 and along with it Surface phone and Surface PCs in January 2017 at the latest...
  • "Just move it up 6 months," he says as the pixie dust floats through the air around him.  Being in new product development myself, I wish it was just that easy. You bleed for 18+ months for this stuff, it can't just be moved forward, sorry.  ;-)
  • Can we all rest now pls?? Sent from Windows Central App for Windows 10
  • Lots of iterations is great -- but I'd prefer the first release to be "solid" rather than rely on core functionality to be added after the fact. The problem with the initial release of Win10 mobile was that it was half-assed and premature. Some would say that Win10 (full size) was also half baked at launch. Both instances have sullied Microsoft's brand, which they have been diligently working to remedy. They're still trying to dig their way out of the hole, though. I'm hopeful they will stop releasing HW/SW that is unpolished upon launch. I don't want to see unstable behavior or missing critical features on my shiny new widgets. I don't expect perfection, but I do demand good/great/excellent. Perfection can come later.
  • The sorry fact is that there were no new flagships for 2 years and excuse was that need to wait for W10M Then all we got was lousy buggy 'flagships' and no t-shirt. Market share and mind share on freefall. Wait a few more years! Right..
  • I for one am positive......
    And still hoping for stylus support.
    It's going to be the next big thing. @ Daniel, good article
  • I like it for a Surface though I wouldn't have too much use for it. But for a phone? I see no point, personally.
  • It's gonna be Panos' "Surface Mini" on steriods, I bet. Definitely heavily pen-enabled.
  • For taking notes, selecting parts of text or images etc. Just to be more productive ;)
  •   So if he Intel rumor is true - which is quite likey - we might see some X-Point memory in the Surface Phone. Since X-Point is a new type of memory
    that sort of demands an enhanced memory handling architecture for a given OS
    in order to take advantage of its new propeties. So it might well be that RS 2 and RS 3 are taking care of integrating into W1(M)
    various levels of support for X-Point memory and various use cases.  Integrating X-Point support into an OS like W10 (and Linux of course) is quite a hefty task I would think.
    ​So this takes time and also several iterations to make sure X-Point's properties work best in smartphones, tablets, noteboooks, PCs and servers. I expect the top Surface Phone to be more expensive than a run-of-the-mill iPhone. 
    Depending on how far Microsoft goes for the first step the pricing could come close to a Surface Pro 4. .         
  • Microsoft said ARM themselves. Intel us not happening. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • And the "smartphone windows phone" goes on.    The 950XL is a pretty solid phone honestly. The problem I have with it is mainly the predecessors excelled at photography, whereas the 950 series was pretty lackluster and didn't really bring anything to the photography front, and if anything degraded the Lumia line for being known for photography because of how it processed images (I really do not like the photos produced, oversharpened, oversaturated sometimes, video is pretty damn horrible). I love the screen of it, it's a nice size, but wtf happened to the QA? Glass screen protectors aren't sticking at the corners because of some flex in those areas? WTF. The thing is still made from plastic, but now it just feels flimsy, not solid like the predecessors were. It really was like a 930"s" imo, not a next generation leap, especially with trying to do the "Windows 10" naming with omg we skipped Windows 9, in this case, omg we skipped 940. In a competitive market, where everyone has OIS now and fairly good image processing, they really had to step it up, not baby steps but a big adult step. They didn't do that. Continuum is cool an all, but that's more of a business thing imo. Really hope this time is really a solid promise of them delivering
  • 1) I'm sick of the "Surface Phone" name. This better have a real name soon. 2) Never understood the bad rap about the 950s. I can't begin to imagine what would the fans want that's not in the hardware other than that recurring minor pet peeve of "not looking premium enough" which apparently is solved just by adding a bit of metal (???), like they did in the iphone-inspired 650. To me this whole thing is a distortion of the potential dissatisfaction of fans with the platform, to the point that they don't even like the best phone that can be made for it hardware wise. Which is the 950 XL. A bigger phone won't solve this, not even running Win32 apps (which seems to be what all the fans want and what will magically improve the platform). Seriously, I think there's a failure to recognize how good phones these are.
  • 1. I mean, what else would you call it besides the "Surface Phone"? That name has a slew of advantages. First, the press and fans have already been calling it that for over a year, meaning it's already built up name recognition. Second, it is the most succinct name possible that simultaneously associated the device with the popular and acclaimed Surface line while simultaneously distinguishing it as both a unique product in the Surface line and a phone. Any name that has the Surface in it that is also a phone need to also have the "Phone" part in the title or most customers won't know it's a phone. That said, if there is a better name out there, I'm all for it. I just can't think of one, and I'd rather Microsoft play it smart and safe (i.e. choose Surface Phone as the name), given their hit-or-miss history with naming products (e.g. Xbox = cool, Surface RT = confusing). 2. I've played with the 950s in the Microsoft Store many times. It's a great phone. I'd buy it in an instant if it was on Verizon. My hope is that the Surface Phone launches simultaneously across all carriers (or as many as possible) and is heavily promoted.
  • I'm afraid that outside US the strength of the "Surface" brand name is being highly overestimated. Lumia is a recongnized brand name associated to Windows Phone, though most people still think they are Nokia phones. For example, in my country a Lumia phone gets more brand name recognition than "Surface". You can't get a Surface locally in Argentina, it's a very niche kind of import device. And even in the US it's still not such a big name, I think. It's quite a success in relation to what was a few years ago with the original Surface line, but I'm not sure it's that big. Anyway, time will tell, it will probably become a self-fulfilling prophecy with that name, for good or for worse MS is pretty open to listen to the community (who in turn are ruthless with them and don't buy their phones)
  • Surface is definitely a bigger name in the US than Lumia.
  • 1 & 2. I am a tech enthusiast, and I could not careless about names (or brands for that matter). Give the best specs, top screen to size ratio, durable and packed in a clean simple design, and companies could call it “XL1000 super plus mega grand V.3.0” or simply “X”, at the best possible price, and I would be all over it! I also thank myself for liking niche devices, means almost exclusive! So that’s how I see my L950XL, with a 200Gb SSD I have been getting so much of my files & videos in it, I could not be happier the way it handles them. About photos, I never got a 1020 so coming from a Galaxy S4, I am amazed at the top quality of them! About the ‘metal’ body, I guess it’s more marketing than anything else, I got a double case ‘plastic’ protector (as every single person I know of has a plastic protector) for my smartphone, so I still see plastic over it! All this plus the removable battery and I am set for a couple of years! So quoting you: “Never understood the bad rap about the 950s”!
  • Yeah after trying a Sony Xperia for about a month now, I definitely miss the reliability and simplicity of Windows phones.  And the camera, for sure, of my L950.
  • I bet the surface phone is way expensive and intended only for the people with a decent jobs lol.. Honestly I cannot afford it.. Sent from Lumia 1520
  • Guys I think i told u guys...that Lumia brand time is over...lumia 650 was the last Lumia....Microsoft is working on many surface phone for diff price range and soon the guys will get for testing internally of course
  • Yes, Microsoft should be really ashamed of the 950s, I fully agree. And Microsoft immediately should slash prices worldwide by 50%
    so more people can get one ;-) ,
  • I can't see how a phone focused on productivity and old desktop software could be a success. A smartphone is the most personal computer we are using and therefore they should focus on the personal things. For me the first two Lumia generations did exactly that. And also who really wants to use Win32 apps on a mobile device? Even on a second monitor (with cables and adapters!). I want Win32 programs to slowly die and be replaced with more modern programs/apps. I want Adobe to re-write Photoshop as a universal app instead of running Quicken2008 on a $700 phone.
  • This is the point. The actual use of smartphone apps has superseded most use scenarios for win32 apps (in non-pro cases, of course, but I bet you can't use a Surface Phone to run Photoshop, Autocad or the likes). In fact, this very thing was the direction started with the Windows 8 store and going forward with Windows 10 UWP and every Project Something there is and will be. So come on, no one can say  seriously that the future of the (mobile) Windows ecosystem is being able to run Win32 apps.
  • You won't be able to run the full versions of Photoshop and Autocad, sure (at least for a few years), but you can damn sure remote desktop into a full-powered machine and do work.  Stop being limited in your vision.
  • My desktop is behind a SSL-encrypted VPN. Or behind a IKEv1 VPN in my personal computers case. It doesn't work on the "business OS" Windows Mobile or even full Windows (requiring stupid additional "clients"), while it's not a problem on a crappy piece of $100 droid plastics. Could have been fixed easily by MSFT, for years. Windows mobile lacks the "whatever is required will work" ethos if Windows.
  • It's a phone that will also be a computer, not just a phone.  When you plug your phone into KVM, do you really just want to keep on using the same old small-screen experience, or would you prefer something more like an actual computer?  For me, the latter.  It's nice to have options.
  • How many users will be left by this time next year? Just how big is this team working on WP10 that it requires another year to be worthy? 5 or 6 people?
  • After using Android for a month now, Windows Mobile definitely needs to keep pushing onwards.  I'm glad MS is ignoring the sheep of the world.
  • Surface phone will be expensive. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I would love to see a potential mock up of what the surface phone may look like? Like maybe leak out a few design choices to glance over for what it may look like?
  • I like my 950xl.
  • Me too. A lot. And software has barely begun taking advantage of its power. So this whole Surface Phone talk is nonsense.
  • I hope they're planning a serious marketing campaign. A year is a long time and Windows Phone will be the last thing on consumers minds.
  • Marketing isn't going to do it. Microsoft needs a truly game changing device. It needs to be as big or bigger than the iPhone in 2007. Anything less and it will flop just like all its predecessors. If it is just a normal phone with W10m and Continuum and some features that have been on iPhone and Android for years, Microsoft will probably kill it before launch. It would. e destined to fail. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I think they need to just stick to their current path and not give up on it. Theygive up and try something different too much. It is going to be a very long road from here. They need to leverage W10 Surface Pro, laptop, and 2in1 customers into phone customers - or shoud I say phone-enabled Surface Note customers.
  • Well, sounds promising! Just hope that timeline doesn't shift (again) - there are certainly many variables in that that could still go wrong/slower than expect. Besides Continuum (the use case for which is so far fairly weak, and I am not yet 100% convinced it will be dramatically different in a year), I think there must be a lot more to being "the most productive" phone. I would think an absolutely seamless hand-over between devices, and the various devices forming some kind of a whole kept together by the cloud, will be equally if not more important to get right. iPhone and Androids are quite productive already (in a considerable part thanks to Nadella's push of MS suite of software to them) - and this will continue to be the case. When in "India", when in "X" (or most other markets outside of the US and a few European markets initially) will be another big question. I.e. the wait will almost certainly be much longer for many markets and countries. Nokia brought the N95. Apple brought the iPhone. Google brought the "everyone on board" Android. Hope MS will bring the next big thing.
  • I'm very glad to hear Daniel Rubino's report above, it's music to my ears during these "times of woe" for WP/W10M fans/users. I love my 950, it's a great phone hardware-wise, I like it's lightness, the removable battery, dual-SIM capability, beautiful screen, rapid-charge capability, superb camera. I'll put it up against the wife's iPhone 6 any day of the week - they are very comparable phones overall.
    I admit that W10M has been a struggle so far, rather disappointing at times, but it is slowly getting better. Given Daniel's reporting​ on what is coming down the pipeline in terms of updates, and Microsoft's commmitment to re-focus on Mobile after Redstone 1 is launched, I'm certain that not only is Windows Phone NOT dead, it is more alive and dynamic and has more potential than iOS for sure, and will hold its own against Android. Not in terms of market share, but in terms of overall capabilityand potential to keep up in the "mobile OS arms race".
    Thanks Daniel,  your report above made my day.  
  • It really is an increasingly great OS.  It's too bad the app developers don't feel the same way.
  • The app devs are waiting for Islandwood (where MSFT hopes for the magic community making all the work are flying), and Astoria... wait, that go cancelled. Or they wait for MSFT to die; this is a rather large group.
  • This is seriously exciting IMHO! I'm totally stoked for Win32 on the phone! That's the ultimate game-changer and end of all discussions arguments hehehe!
  • So will the Surface Phone (and, really, what else could they possibly call it that would be better? Nothing) be able to run Win32 app natively--like a Reverse Tablet Mode when in Continuum--or will it require servers like the HP x3?
  • There really is no hardware reason that Win32 apps can't run natively.  We already have tiny tablets and PCs-on-a-stick.
  • I feel like we have been waiting for the "next" Windows Phone since the Icon/930. I had to jump ship out of necessity. I needed a new phone and windows did not offer a high end device on my carrier. I ended up going with a Moto X. I like it, but not as much as my Icon. That said, I guarantee that I will still be interested in the Surface Phone in a year, but by that time, I will be even further entrenched into the Google ecosyster. Again, out of necessity.
  • Honestly, the Lumia 950s with the Mozo cases are not bad flagships at all.  The camera is literally the best on the smartphone market, for one. ​Oh, and screw the Google ecosystem.  I use Android also, but I've disabled as much of the Google stuff that I can.  The only Google service that is better than the MS alternative is Maps.
  • ..if my 950xl is upgradeable with this "Redstone" thing, I think i will be fine.. :D
  • "The bad news for Windows 10 Mobile users is that the next year will be one of waiting in anticipation of what Microsoft does next." That sentence sums up 2010-2016, it seems.
  • So, there's nothing to wait for on android or apple side, right?
  • Android and iOS do not have their survival to depend on the waiting.
  • What does that even mean? Android and iOS actually get things and make sweeping changes and improvements and release more high-end hardware with consistency. The difference comes down to: You wait for stuff you get on Android and iOS. W10M is still missing things from years ago, like when it had lockscreen support for the music player's artist art.
  • I don't think android is coming with anything as big as continuum or iris recognition. Sure it has fingerprint recognition but that's nothing that big. Sure there's things one would like to see on WM but why not even glance on android yet? apart from 1 or 2 models... 
  • "Big" is realtive. Very few use Windows 10 Mobile, and very few of those use Continuum. I have a Display Dock that I got for Christmas, and I have maybe used it 3 times. Continuum just means very little without apps to back it up, and there aren't enough of those. As for iris recognition, screw it. I can't use it becfause of my glasses (high astigmatism). We all know factually that fingerprint scanners are more reliable, and that everyone can use it. It's a more useful piece of tech right now, while iris scanners are a slower alternative that some just can't use. They're not big, they're just a nifty novelty. I'd call wireless charging a bigger deal than iris scanning. Glance is nice, but so are notification LEDs, which we don't get on Lumias. The software missing from W10M is a MUCH bigger deal. No, my sister can't use Continuum on her Galaxy S7. She CAN use US Bank, Snapchat, and many other apps, though. That simply ends up meaning more, and don't give me "but those apps can come," because Android could also allow contextual casting of the device as well. What you have stated is that Microsoft has a couple of intriguing features that are still gimmicks at this point, while they're missing stability, software, and build quality. They're doing the ancillary stuff pretty well, but they're screwing up hard with the core features.
  • I know it's too soon for a good continuum experience (unless you only need word or excel) but at least we have something groundbreaking to wait for, now even more with future win32 support. That's what I mean, you don't get anything worth waiting for on anroid or ios. We also know MS is always thinking BIG and isn't affraid of innovating, even if that means it has to take the time to do that. I'm waiting to see what google or apple will do next that's so groundbreaking that devs will have to rewrite all their apps to take advantage of. Or if that day will never come and what you have is what you'll get for the next 10 years.
  • You just stated my point almost entirely. Microsoft's tried stuff, but not flesed it out well, and it's left customers of W10M and WP wanting for a long while. It's all "somethin is being worked on," with promises yet to be fulfilled after 5+ years. The last part, not sure what you're getting at, that Apple/Google will overhaul their systems and make all current apps inert? We've sen over the past several that developers will adjust to meet the needs of those OSes. I had a teacher just rewrite his iOS developement course to support Swift, not just Objective-C. That language change isn't bringing iOS development to its knees.
  • Don't know what you mean with promisses yet to be fulfilled. MS brougth Glance, PureView, 40MP photos, glove sensitive touch, iris scanning, continuum and so on and so on. What I mean is that sometimes companies have to do something groundbreaking just to do some inovation and to google and apple that means take the courage to break appart from current apps. Nokia did it with symbian and MS did it from 6.5 to 7.
  • Hah. Glance, PureView, the 1020, and super-sensitive touch were ALL Nokia. Note that non-Nokia devices didn't receive those. We even LOST super-sensitive touch with the Lumia 950 line, so not only did Microsoft NOT bring that, they TOOK IT AWAY. They didn't put out the 1020, nor did they put out a device with that level of camera (relative to the present-day market). Again, they've given us slow iris scanning that some of us (myself included) can't use, and Continuum that is limited by a lack of software. They caleld these 950 and XL devices "for the fans," and we're now hearing they aren't porud of the hardware OR software behind it. So, either the 950 and XL are broken promises of a device for fans, or they just consider fans worthless, that they'd aim a device they're embarrassed by at us. Meanwhile, we got told Xbox Music was taken out of the OS level to get updates faster, and all that brought us was a bunch of lost features and faster updates for 2 years to STILL not be where it was in 2012. They basically said, "we're going to help you by breaking this app beyond reason, then start to make it what it already was and call it progress." don't forget how they bragged about Office on WP and Continuum, then announced (after a bunch of us already bought the phones and Display Docks) that they would take away Continuum Office if you don't pay for it. Microsoft's done little to actually progress on the mobile side for some time, though a lot of it is the inability to attract big-time developers. Nokia's a total mess. Symbian died, then Nokia's phone division followed a few years later (with a possible return as an Android OEM--groundbreaking, right?). Microsoft flopped about from 6.5-8.1, which covered about 8 years, I think. If those are your defenses of innovation, then I think innovation's the worst thing in the world, because it leads to short-term failure and long-term extinction (in the cases of Symbian, WM6.5, and WP7).
  • That's right they are nokia's but MS did have to get the OS to support it. I see now, it's pointless to argue with you. You sound just like my old dad: "Inovation? what for?"
  • That's such an ignorant answer, a beautiful cop-out of , "I can't argue, so I win." The OS isn't a problem, it's a hardware matter. That's why, when the 1020 came out, it needed a specialized version of the Snapdragon S4 at the time. It didn't need a specialized OS, WP already supported it. The iris scanner is an algorithm issue than any modern OS could pull off. It's just that the others decided to interface with a fingerprint scanner instead. PureView is an algorithm set Nokia decided to pair with Microsoft to release, and it could easily be put elsewhere, if it were allowed. Apple's long been known for really good photography algorithms as well. Super-sensitive touch, again, Microsoft took away. If you're going to say Microsoft "innovated" because of the display Nokia chose, then how about you learn some consistency and point out Microsoft's taking that away. Why is Microsoft un-innovating? I doubt you can pull that off because it would mean Microsoft did something wrong, and you seem incapable of grasping or believing that. The only thing you've meaningfully called innovation is Continuum, which you admit isn't supported well. Pumping megapixels into a camera or using a different form of input for a passcode isn't innovation, it's just doing something we've done for years in a slightly different--and less effective, in the case of the iris scanner--way. You're just pulling a buzzword, naming things, and not defending jack. That's why you choose to not argue--because you're repeatedly saying things that aren't factual, or you're not defending your point with anything but "I say this is innovation." It's laughably bad, because it's blatant fanboyism that's flailing and saying I'm saying a completely different thing than what I am, in an attempt to build a strawman and seem right. But please, go find where I said innovation is pointless. You can't, because I didn't. I said Microsoft's "innovation" hasn't led to advancement of the mobile platform in a meaningful way (marketshare and profits), and it hasn't. Your "argument" a joke, and that's the nicest thing I can call it.
  • And clearly you have the time I don't to reply that much, so if you say MS didn't do anything in the last 8 years then it's true.
  • There's my point...again. You can only argue sarcasm, lies, misinformation, and straight garbage because facts and more than 3 sentences is just TOO much time. There are times I hate the Internet, and it ususally involves some simpleton trying to throw out incomplete, unsourced junk as meaningful information. This is one of those times, because your willingness to start this crap is the epitome of bad argumentation.
  • Loving my 950xl, and super excited for what's to come with MS!
  • Hope the surface phone camera can rival Lumia 950xl camera Posted from Windows Central for Windows 10
  • I have a feeling that when you see Microsoft say "productivity" it's not synonymous with killer consumer features.
  • It may be a welcome plus!
  • I have no doubt that it will be at least as good as the L950s.
  • Win32 should die! Be that as it may, I reluctantly admit it's a Win32 world and it could give Microsoft's mobile strategy some traction until the UWP proves itself.
  • It's not a Win32 world. It's a Dalvik world, expected to be a ObjectiveC or Swift world by MSFT.
  • For those who think a "Surface" branded W10M device is the magic bullet, think again.  Until Microsoft fixes, solves and/or beats the app gap, it's just another pricy pretty handset built for the converted, not the convinced. 
  • This. We need a strategy for closing the app gap between yesterday and April 2017. We can't stand there in 2017 with the same or worse app situation than today. Posted from the App Gap
  • That's where you got it all wrong. You see, if it runs win32 it's the other platforms that have a HUGE app gap :)
  • No, not really. People still need mobile apps for their mobile devices.
  • Still, it would have A LOT of apps other platforms wouldn't! And if so many people do so many things on a win32 browser, even on 7" tablets, why not on a 6" "tablet"?
  • Oh, Snapchat has an Win32 app? Didn't know that.
  • You think its the best example? Cause I know thousands of win32 apps mobile phones don't have.
  • Running Win32 desktop applications on a small phone. Lol.
  • There's a lot of apps that runs well on a 6" screen but have you heard of continuum? it will be able to run on any pc/laptop screen wirelessly.
  • And people carry their monitors around with them to use the apps they need?
  • Sure, don't you know? /s
  • I can't help but feel like we've been here before.  Microsoft "strategically" kills off the Maclaren in because they didn't want it to steal the thunder from their Windows 10 flagship phones slated to release a year later.  Said flagships are then hardly given the time of day during their own release, released on a beta OS, and to top it all off, we were then told that they were "carry over" devices that didn't line up with Microsoft's overall strategy.  Now we're being told that Microsoft will commit to the platform with the next update for Windows 10 which is planned for next year.  There seems to be a pattern developing.
  • Did you see the new McLaren live pictures? Damn it was looking good for a few years old phone! Premium build, killer camera etc. If this new tile thingy was not 100% hitch free they could have shipped it with stock WP8.1, would have been insta buy either way.
  • .
  • Is Microsoft coming out with their own chipset or something? Otherwise it'll have the same specs as every other high-end phone coming out at that time.
  • I'd say yes just like they did with the Xbox One
  • Soon.... I've waiting since Mango for the truly revolutionary Windows Phone update :/ Posted from Windows Central for Windows 10
  • I wish I haven't had bought 950XL. A total waste of money.
  • I hope they call it a 'Lumia Surface'. My problem with MS has been that on the mobile scene, they've been far too quick to flick the reset switch (figuratively speaking) and that has hurt the continuation on the platform. If they just decide that lumia is worthless, and decide to drop the name, lumia name altogether, I think it doesn't project the feeling of solidity. After all, the surface line had a slow start, but after a few iterations it hit its stride, and they figured out what the market wanted. Similarly, I think they need to get that stability and continuity with the phones.
  • Bring your A game on Microsoft!
  • im very glad its in 2017 and theym aint rushing it out.  Rushing new products with software ready is the best way to go.  My mate a mac user bought a surface pro 4. and it too 1 day a return and another 5 hours all because i the tablet kept refusing to boot.   Hes had so many issues and spent hours having to update software out of the box just to make it usable and thats not the way to go. with his first experience back on windows im surprised he stuck it out. Its these kind of things microsoft need to not only get right, particually on mobile but they need to bee seen as the best. I hope they do it cause live tiles rules and 2017 means i can buy a s7 edge and use a icon based alternative till the new windows proper flagship comes out.I dont see the 950 as a flagship phone its more a cheap stop gap, well itll be cheap by christmas lol.
  • Good ill be staying until next year then. Hopefully more apps will come by then, esp games.
  • I have absolutely no issues with my 950 XL as a phone, its features are great, it has some new tech that is easy and fun to show off and since I grabbed a Mozo leather case it looks sick as. My issue is 100% with the software, the software just plain pales in comparison, with frequent crashes, multiple steps backwards in terms of keyboard functionality and promises that have still yet to be met. Microsoft shouldn't be criticising the phones as there is nothing wrong with them, at least not that I have seen.
  • I'm similarly baffled by it. From what I've read, the negative reviews aren't associated with the hardware, rather the software and general lack of support for W10M. So I'm not sure what was wrong with the narrative spin.
  • This actually vexes me. "Redstone 2 and 3 will be focused on phones". What has the mobile division been doing this whole time??? They launched Win Phone 7 in 2010, re-kernaled it twice after that. They're not happy with the state of mobile? Here's an idea: Devote more resources, advertise, stop treating mobile like the red-headed stepchild of Microsoft. It's been 6 years. How many surface ads have there been since then? Xbox? So a year from now they're going to 'get serious' with mobile? I would've rather they said they did everything they could and they're going to double down on resources, staff, etc until they're customers are satisfied
  • I have now decided that there are no more than 3 or 4 people working on Mobile a few hours a day.
  • Pure speculation ... And WRONG!!
    Some information is good,
    but the conclusions or predictiond are FALSE!
    and some comments ... there's no word to decribe ...
    WC in British indeed.... flushing broken...
  • I can hold through but I'm no longer urging anyone I know who is currently on team Windows Phone/Mobile to stick by. Those who carry about apps and updates are beyond patiently waiting or holding out hope (reasonably so if they're not Microsoft enthusiasts). For example, where the heck is AT&T on the Win10Mobile update?
  • Hmm lets wait and see
  • This is such encouraging news to hear Daniel. I have been wondering when\if I'll ever come back to Windows Phone after the cancellation of the McLaren when I switched over to Android. I since haven't found a reason to come back especially now that I have an Android phone with excellent manual controls and gorgeous photo quality in the LG V10. I really love hard Microsoft is working on the OS with frequent updates which have never happened until W10M. Also Microsoft made it that much easier for me not to come back by not pushing to get the Lumia 950/XL to other carriers. I really hope they make a strong push to get the Surface phone and other noteworthy offerings on more carriers as well as unlocked through Microsoft stores and online. I love that more apps are coming as well and I will be paying particular attention to how many of the "big apps" or at least the few missing ones that I use frequently on a weekly basis come to the OS. I feel like Microsoft can focus on the app ecosystem and OS refinements/features for the entire year while other OEM partners work on hardware. I feel like the combination of more important apps available via Project Islandwood and awesome developers, more carrier accessibility, and luxury worthy hardware will be the winning formula that will bring early adopters turned distant fans, naysayers and new users to the OS. The picture is really starting to come together now. Until then I'll be test driving the OS via the indestructible Lumia 920 while enjoying the perks of Android. I'm excited all over again about the possibilities. One picture at a time -- LG V10
  • I bet 950XL can take better pictures :) You may have a device full of apps, but you got a boring UI as a result :p
  • :) well I have a third party launcher on my V10 so the UI is definitely not boring just not as dynamic as live tiles. But I'm been using Android for two years now and really love it. As far as picture quality goes MAYBE you're right but IF the 950XL does take better picutres, it's certainly not remarkably better in terms of quality. And since you brought it up check out this picture and notice the exposure time. Here's a little homework assignment for you; try and duplicate it. You can't. Microsoft is way behind in terms of manual controls except for the Rich Capture tech which I absolutely love. I can change my white balance in Kelvin. On the V10 I have all those manual controls in video as well. You guys are still stuck with 4 seconds max shutter speed. Here's a second pic for you. This one is unedited in any way. One picture at a time -- LG V10
  • Although excited about the potential this project has, I'm annoyed at the fact that I won't be able to get it as I plan to get a new phone this year. Will have to wait and see
  • You know I used to be as die hard a Windows Phone fan as you can get. Like many of you, have been an advocate sine WM 6.5, made many of my friends and family switch to WP... The cracks in my "faith" started to appear around the time Nadella came on - I was uneasy about an MS CEO so openly showing his disinterest in their own product. Much of my distrust was proven right over the past year - when even MS apps get new features on rival platforms before their own, when most of the Lumia line gets cancelled and what remains was a gutted shell of what Lumia once stood for (950 design... please), when the rock solid WP7/8 gets replaced with a more generic android like UI and becomes a buggy mess, when WM10 loses features compared WP8, how can you still recommend these products? Should your friends by uninspiring HW with a buggy OS and declining app store just because "wait, but next year, next year you'll see!!". Nope, I am not falling for the pied piper again, not this time. At most, I my hang on to my 930 for another year, but if the Surface Phone is not a true game changer, I am out.    
  • See !! Well I can understand your concern but what balmer wanted and wanted satya's ideology is birth are way different!! Balmer wanted that hardware should be equally produced by Microsoft! Whereas satya's modern is based on Microsoft to reach everywhere as a software and in reality Microsoft is a software giant and not a hardware based company !!! If u see it on a long term , to get things working on phone he has adopted a long and a better plan !! Get in the PC 90% + market share ,get them features plug in all coding to single designing and let them port easy to the phones!! As android and IOS dominates the segment 3% share is miniscule to specially develop for when 97% is generating better revenue and market!!! So patience is required I know it's frustrating to see product drop in on IOS and many a time better in functionality but that is also a product promotion tactic ;)
  • Coming soon (tm)
  • First feeling on getting my 950 XL with Windows hello, continuum and a great camera was...
    "so relieved to be saved from falling to a 1520, 930... because of the great MS flagship silence".
    There's no denying that 950s were a flagship upgrade... Yep a stepping stone towards merging of all productivity and connectivity into a single hand held device but then what was not!?
    By the time the new device line settles, 950/XL owners, having enjoyed the w10m ride thoroughly will be ready for the next flagship upgrade.
  • We also wonder why Microsoft thinks we all have a free 4G unlimited internet!? Not every country has At&T or cricket or Verizon! We hardly get any good schemes and also our net neutrality was at stake! Even our 2G plans are far costlier than you 4-6 GB 4G plans! And imagine how much hesitation we have when we see an asphalt 8 update or w10 updates! Microsoft please consider that not every country has friendly cellular service providers, please take that into considerations and use you insiders for knowing the bugs, just to avoid a bug fix update! This is not a problem that I have (as I have ******* idiot neighbours who don't secure their Wi-Fi and I have at least 3 open Wi-Fis) but I've seen many people who regret using windows just because of frequency of updates costs them more money on internet than they could have bought OS itself!
  • I don't think there is anything wrong with 950(XL) if you compare them to other MS phones. Acctually, I'm quite sure they are best lumias ever. To me, it looks like MS intentionally down hyping *50 line to make some room for OEMs. They wish OEMs to saturate market just like they saturated PC market and for that Lumia has to go. That is the only way gain market share.
  • "Microsoft pushed out eleven updates to Windows 10 Mobile in just five months" And yet... People keep saying Microsoft doesn't care about Windows 10 running on phones.
  • So, if MS think of the 950 range as an 'oddball' or 'embarrassment', 'not up' to their standards, will us owners get a favourable trade when new device ready?? :) I love my 950's (got 2) and my xl's ( another 2), but they are dull to look at. The white is more interesting because it breaks the black up, although it will get grubby quickly. The one I am impressed with is the 650. Now that one looks like it should be more expensive. MS missed a trick there.
  • Yet the updates are filled with amature hour errors, thats what they need so many "oops, try again" pushes for. apps that wont launch at all, apps that wont update, heck the last update the media volume control disappeared. Basic stuff they cant get right.
  • They probably have 2 developers working on W10M pushing out these "updates."  
  • No. They have the Windows 10-team pushing updates.
  • Not at all really.
  • It doesn't matter how fancy the hardware/handset is for the Surface phones. Unless it has the range, and quality of apps like the other platforms, it will still fail ultimately.
  • boring.
  • Boring, predictable fanboy
  • Xcellent!
  • 2017.... I swear, if the surface phone wont be an upgrade to my 1520, and wont get edgy edges i will be very..very..very...angry.. 2 years of waiting for am upgrade is enough. 3 years next year Sent from windows central app for windows 10 mobile
  • Yeah, I'm with you bro
  • oleeeeeeeeeee 1 year more!!   Just quit already and stop wasting money!
  • Just upgraded from 1520 to 950XL.. I started my smartphones with Galaxy S2.. back of my mind, 950XL feels somewhat similar to the S2.. mind you, i loved my S2 (till it failed becoz of overclocking it.. ;)).. 950XL is an awesome phone but yeah its not a Lumia.. Add a Mozo case and it will stand out, but yes it will become a premium android phone.. definitely not a Lumia..
  • This is Microsoft hedging desktop OS in thier strategy to get more Mobile share via their main strength which is 95% worldwide OS share ie Windows OS, no one and nothing can compete with Microsoft in that department.  Redstone 1 will be great for PC users and the world will see MS developing the new OS well, this will convince those on Win 7 to upgrade (IMO) The 2 updates next year along with hardware will leverage the features to mobile, by that time a LOT of W10 universal apps will be out and MS will have a consistant experience accross the board.  Like the article says, its another waiting game, some are fed up and left already, others will sigh and leave, others will wait.  I cant bring myself to buy an iPhone (i might get an iWatch as I want notifications at all times, Band just doesnt cut it in its screen oreintation ATM) so I might get an X3 Elite while I wait, need to see it first as it might be too big to carry around. Personally i thought Microsoft would have been in a position to push out Surface hardware and mobile OS today rather than in a year given the amount of time they have had since the Nokia Aquisition/integration/destruction? and the experience with Windows Mobile 8 from a few years ago.  My level of anticipation and excitement has gone down, my level of disapointment has gone up, yet i am still hopeful they CAN do it, without screwing it up? I hope for that as well.
  • I can wait. My 950 XL is a good phone no matter what reviewers think of it...
  • .
  • Well, I thought W10M would solve all problems, or the first wave of updates, or at least Redstone...? But the reality is that it is Redstone 2 (2017) that will save the phones? SOON....
  • A foldable phone with win 32 app support
  • I'm going to be returning to W10M. As it has a great OS. I'm on Android and it's poor, the only positive is Apps. But now W10M has the apps I need and want apart from one or two but I believe this will change in time due to UWA. Im hoping the the Surface phone is the phone that the 950 should of been. People need to remember W10M was a clean sheet, it needed time to mature and developers. I think Microsoft has made the right move for the future. Roll on 2017! If your wondering why I'm not on a lumia and that's because I buy my phone out right and use it for two years. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • lol tipical microsoft. bullshit excuses, fake promisses, and no proof.
  • I don't want to sound like a troll because I am not but if there is something MS should not feel proud of, that's Windows 10 Mobile, not the Lumia 950/XL...
  • I don't own 950/XL, but from what I gather this is true. It's the software. Was the same story on 920 until 8.1.
  • So 12 months from now a new phone might be out. I feel sorry for the people at the Microsoft store. What are they going to sell in the interim. It looks like the 950 twins are already well on their way to shutdown production and blowout sales...
  • ugh, I don't know if I can wait much longer. My 830 always crashes when using cortona. I about threw it against the floor this morning!!!
  • I'm happy with my Lumia 950XL actually, hardware wise is fine, it's Windows 10 which has to get better, of course as a Surface Pro 4 happy owner i'm pretty curious to see this Surface Phone, and April 2017 could be a good time to replace my 950XL with that
  • Two things that Microsoft needs to implement that would really help them penetrate the following markets (Africa,Asia,South American) are as follows,,, and until then no matter what they offer it won't just completely work the way Android did to envelope those markets entirely
    1. Ability to share apps from one windows phone to another(side loading),this is done via xender/flashshare app on Android built by a third party, Microsoft needs to build theirs natively and preinstalled on all phones,it helps in those regions because either data in way too expensive, poor or limited,if u factory reset an Android phone, you don't necessarily need to burn your limited data to download all your apps,you just simply transfer what u can find from your friends phone and only hit the store for your specific apps exclusive to you, 2. Microsoft needs to aggressively push to strike a deal with almost if not all mobile carriers in those regions to support mobile billing, Android hasn't done this yet to powerfully or at all so it would be a unique opportunity for them,its a big issue for us here (I'm in Nigeria) to buy paid apps or do in app subs,because our internet or mobile banking is not so good, my debit card gives me so much issues either with registration or acceptance, and am sure I'm not alone in this,if this two issues can be resolved it would give windows mobile a huge boost going into the future,because the continuum feature is truly powerful, over here majority can't even afford a cheap laptop or second hand,let alone a phone+tablet or phone+laptop combo,and so continuum and those barriers I listed above taken care of,then watch Windows Mobile blow,the third point I would have pointed out was already cleared with Windows 10 mobile debut,which is the DATA CAP! Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Question for everyone here. I've had my Lumia 920 since 2012. Should I wait the year for the surface phone or just get the HP Elite X3?
  • Still clinging to the hope of a "Surface Phone" unicorn. Been reading these articles for 3+ years now. Every few months there's a new messiah on the horizon to rescue Windows Phone, and it never comes. Microsoft keeps re-inventing its mobile OS over and over, and over, and over, and over and nothing works.  
  • I was heading to Microsoft Store today for the 950XL & 950 deal. Not any more. I will stick to my L830 longer than I wanted but that is okay. My wife uses a 950 and she likes it. But Win32 applications! oh man, I can't wait.
  • Well there could alweays be a file on phone that had the name Win32 Apps in the all apps list , but thoses apps dont open when on phone because the are not phone supported, well still you can see them. would be great to have such a folder in sd card so you know where they are and are installed. but when on continuum this folder can be used and run thos win 32 apps, great would be to be able to have shortcuts on desktop too, so like when opening continuum is like turning on your computer and you see your folders and shortcuts if they make it there that will be great. if a phone does run the win32 apps we know it will be someday sin its windows the windows phone will change everything :3
  • Let's say the purchase of BlackBerry is in the mix here. Hence the major delay. Well worth the wait.
  • I was so much happy with Lumia 630 and 640xl dual the os 8.1 got High performance smooth and no negative issues except internal memory! 8gb not enough.
    I purchased 950xl five months back b phone they were some issues but after OS update become better and super but I am still using my 640xl for my e mails the outlook in 950xl working perfect but need re design. messages Draft become in same page in out! Why? As new message!
    Keyboard perfect wish they add option to make the characters bigger or sold.
    I don't believe in rumors WP10 can easly
    reach higher share in the market if they speed up any update cleaning any bugs.
    950xl super phone deserve.
    Good luck.
  • I am very relieved that MS wont be doing much in the hardware area for a while (2017) from my point of view amd many who dont live state side... I personal think that MSFT should also **** very OS to the 64x architecture, mainly to have one platform where we can run native app across the border with even fewer codes and simplicity... I know its not easy due to various reason, mainly two at the moment...being size and heat... When I meant not being state that I have to pay a huge amount on taxes and shipment...especially here in give you an idea..i spent almost 600usd for my band2 and 600euros for my 950xl...o having new hardware so early after a recent release wouldn't go nice with many...and why in the world aren't we from other countries not getting these new hardware available??? Probably a question for D. Rubino... Also while on the Dan questions... How are the mcse/mcp exams are going to be set for the windows platform since it is always in evolution???? As a former mcse 2000/ was easy to know the boundaries of the systems and hardly any new features were added to the platforms...and the few additions came across as service packs once in a while..
  • Whatever. Before they provide a presumably cloud-based, which translates into paid-for, remote app service, they should fix the VPN stack, so we can do this today, using Remote desktop and our on-premise private cloud. No problem using Android or iOS, btw. Oh, and maybe, finally, deliver that Surface Hub ordered last year, delayed by nearly 4 months now and no new delivery target set. Only the last step in business fuckups for us, after we found out we couldn't stop telemetry and cancelled our W10 rollout. This company needs to come back to reality. Quick.
  • this is just pure speculation don't give false hopes enough windowscentral is better than that
  • Not proud of the 950's but wont have anything new to replace them for a time span of SIXTEEN MONTHS. Yeah they sound really concerned.
  • I bought my first Windows Phone recently, the 650, and then promptly exchanged it for the 950 cause the 650 was too much of a beginner phone. Outside of some annoying speaker popping noise I love the 950. I was an iPhone user for years and then a while with Android. Those are both slick experiences but I find I can get to what I need quicker with WP. I'm also a Surface user so I'm really looking forward to the Surface phone if its got the same quality and includes a stylus(cause without one why call it a Surface phone?) I appreciate how MS is stepping back and re-evaluating their mobile OS. I'm patient. I'm excited about the ideas they have cooking. Apple's idea of change every year is just thinner/lighter/thinner/lighter, when they're not belatedly ripping off Android. Android seems to be focusing on chasing Apple's high class design. They're mostly succeeding but bordering on gimmicky sometimes. They do have every feature you could possibly want but as much as I (still) love my Note 5 the OS feels heavy. Between Samsung and AT&T there is so much bloat its unbelievable. Customizing launchers though is quite fun I do admit. I'm enjoying for the moment the simple,light and useful UI of WP.
  • I'm not disappointed in my 950XL honestly. Yes, it does have it's bugs. But on the whole, it's the best phone I've ever owned, and probably will own for awhile. Its now the standard I will hold all the other OEMs-including Microsoft, to include. Though I really would like Super Sensitive Touch back.
  • as already stated elsewhere: Well I'd guess we will see the new device class called 3-in-1 - which is basically the 2-in-1 with the phone functionality thrown in. Personally I'd rather teach a small tablet (x86) how to provide cell phone functionality than a smart phone how to provide pc functionality... what we need is a decent Intel chip set after all... with continuum, centennial and companion device we get all the Windows we want... last but not least: at the end of the day it's all about how the application adopts to the device's screen real estate and device interaction (touch vs keyboard/mouse)
  • I am using the Lumia 950 from AT&T. This is a very good phone. I expect to upgrade to a Surface or Lumia 950XL. The Windows 10 system is now the best phone system.
  • I been with Microsoft since the Zune. I feel stupid for spending money on the 950. I just paid to be a beta tester, and I would of been fine with that if I knew from the begining. Now its like the only way I can do anything is wait and entire year until they put out the Surface. I feel like not buying it out of spite. Did anyone else notice the email when he said "We believe in this product's value to business customers" !