Will Samsung beat Microsoft to market with an ultimate mobile device?

A rectangular slab with a slightly faster processor, a moderately improved camera and a new way to unlock it (among other iterative advances) is all we've had to look forward to each year since 2007.

Microsoft is positioning to change this with what many are calling the Surface Phone. That's if Samsung doesn't steal its thunder.

The ultimate mobile device

In 2015 I mused about a 7" Windows tablet with Continuum and telephony. This "tablet that could replace your smartphone" would be more than a "better" smartphone.

As Windows phone fans await the Surface Phone, I pondered if that device would be a reimagined Surface Mini. A Continuum-enabled pocketable Surface with an inking focus would fit well in the Surface family. For Devices Chief Panos Panay, who still loves and writes notes on his Surface Mini, such a Surface would be a salvaging of the positive aspects of the canceled tablet.

This ultimate mobile device would occupy the space between PC and smartphone. Thus, unbound by conventional smartphone parameters, Microsoft engineers could think "outside the box" in relation to hardware form and design. They could target a device that is the spiritual equivalent of the context-conforming Surface.

Samsung may beat Microsoft's ultimate mobile device to market.

I believe that's exactly what they did. In November I presented an analysis of Microsoft's 2009 Future Vision video where a foldable handheld device that could also separate into two independent parts was highlighted. I asked, "Did Microsoft give us a glimpse of its Surface phone vision?". In light of recently discovered patents that reflect what Microsoft showed us in those videos, the answer may be a resounding: Yes.

Windows phone fans hopes have been raised by what is potentially a foldable, context-conforming Surface "phone" that, through Microsoft's differentiator Continuum, can become a PC. This ultimate mobile device could change the game for Microsoft. That's if Samsung doesn't introduce their ultimate mobile device first.

Samsung: Two can play at that game

Samsung is the largest Android phone manufacturer, and they have big dreams. Their Galaxy line of smartphones, and "The Next Big Thing" ad campaign, even succeeded in upsetting the iPhone's dominance.

Moreover, Samsung is known for pushing the smartphone form factor envelope. In 2011 they introduced the 5.3" Note when the 4.7" HTC Titan was considered gargantuan. Curved displays have been their recent venture. If reports are true, a device that can be a 7" tablet one moment and be folded into a pocketable smartphone the next is on the horizon.

In a further assault on Microsoft's vision, Samsung is also rumored to be bringing a Continuum-like feature to its next flagship. If true, users will be able to dock their Samsung Android phone and work in a desktop mode just as one can do with a Continuum-enabled Windows phone. Samsung's advantage is that consumers have embraced Samsung smartphones as well as their vast portfolio of other products.

Samsung's consumer strength may help them win mindshare to their "ultimate mobile device."

Samsung sales 500 million televisions, monitors, laptops, household appliances and more to consumers every year. With this core strength, the company can strategically market monitors and televisions alongside flagship phones with the Continuum-like feature to help build out the necessary peripheral base. The company has a precedent for offering complementary televisions when a customer purchases a smartphone after all.

Furthermore, as a laptop manufacturer a Superbook or Lap Dock-like peripheral from Samsung isn't farfetched.

Moreover, the company's acquisition of Harman gives them a position in automobiles where the phone's Continuum-like feature could potentially be applied. Moreover, their purchase of AI company Viv is expected to put a unique self-programming AI on its smartphones as well as on its broad range of consumer electronic products.

This will create an intelligence imbued ecosystem within which Samsung's "ultimate mobile device" can integrate. Furthermore, the vision for Viv of an "unbounded AI breathing life into inanimate objects," broadens Samsung's scope to non-Samsung devices.

This AI and IoT vision, combined with a device that can be a phone and a PC sounds very much like Microsoft's vision. Samsung's vast consumer product portfolio coupled with its intelligent IoT/AI visions and vast Android app portfolio are an advantage over Microsoft that positions the company to build out an ecosystem on the consumer's frontline, that supports an ultimate mobile device.

The One Core Microsoft way

A foldable ultimate mobile device on Microsoft's unified platform offers some advantages over an Android offering. One Core provides developers and users a single development platform, Store, OS and eventually context-sensitive UI shells.

Furthermore, UWP apps conform to the form factor on which they're used. Thus, unlike Android apps which only project to a larger screen, UWP apps act like desktop apps, keyboard shortcuts and all, when in desktop mode.

Contextual shells will be an advantage for Microsoft's solution.

Furthermore, whereas Samsung is a single OEM, Microsoft's solution can be distributed through the industry via partners like HP, Alcatel, WhartonBrooks and even Samsung.

Moreover, Windows on ARM makes the prospect of a cellular-capable foldable ultramobile Surface an intriguing prospect. I expect to see a much-needed push of Project Centennial to encourage developers to bring Win32 apps to the UWP at Build 2017, in preparation for cellular PCs and ultimately the ultramobile Surface. In truth, a push of all app Bridges, Xamarin and Wand Labs tech are needed to make the Surface phone successful.

Finally, Microsoft's common shell, which ex-Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer wrote about in 2013 (opens in new tab), will present users of this form-shifting Continuum-powered ultimate device with the UI appropriate for the user's context. Such context-sensitive shells are not expected to be part of Samsung's offering.

First come first serve

Microsoft's Continuum for phones was first to market but is virtually unknown to consumers. Samsung's consumer focus and smartphone market dominance are almost certain to help the company grab mindshare for its Continuum-like feature. Though Microsoft's offering may be superior, Samsung's solution might be "good enough" for most consumers most of the time. A "good enough" experience with practical applications is all that's needed to grab mindshare after all.

Furthermore, Samsung's foldable phone that can become a PC may beat Microsoft's ultimate device to market.

Ironically, the fact that Microsoft will likely ensure its popular Office Suite is a great experience via Samsung's Continuum-like feature may help Samsung beat Microsoft at its own game-changing strategy. We need only wait to find out.

Following the Story

Did Microsoft give us a glimpse of its Surface phone vision
Windows phone isn't dead
Smartphones are dead
The untold app gap story
AIs, Bots and Canvases
Microsoft and the duo user
Windows Mobile and the enterprise
The Surface Phone

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

275 Comments

Thanks for reading folks!!! The tech industry is cutthroat. It seem that the innovations of one company are soon leapfrogged by the advances of another. A constant battle of one-upping is the M/O of the industry. Though Microsoft is innovative and has beat others to market with great technology thier execution and reaching consumers in many (not all) respects has been an Achilles heel. They have also been slow to move in many respects. Continuum is Microsoft's differentiator and a Mobile device that can be a desktop and all in one mobile personal computing has long been what we have envisioned as Microsoft's ace in the hole. The UWP makes Redmond's vision for this more comprehensive end to end than what Samsung may bring, and as a platform solution it will be intended to be mimicked by partners (Samsung would be a great one🙂); but Samsung may be soon enough, good enough and targeted directly at consumers. So what are your thoughts? Let's talk!!!
MS needs a new marketing department for consumers. Like Apple who continually are able to sell older tech or rebranded concepts to the masses like its the best thing ever. Enterprise is easy for MS because most vendors and IT professionals obtain their products by research and testing but consumers aren't going to get something unless its blasted in their face over and over no matter if something is a better product or not.
They need poach an apple executive or someone else from outside, Consumer is not in MS DNA.
You got that right
Me.....I won't take 300k a year to do it either.
Now() thats a terrible idea, they need people focused towards Microsoft not Apple...
I use apple because it has what I need. I waited for MS for years. They never did anything. That does not mean I am an apple sheep. I use windows everyday on my many computers. Just as I use android as well. I use every platform
Thats even worse ! This is a Windows site ...
You need a person who knows consumer market and can help design a ad blitz. professionals will do their work, irrespective of focus or personal preference
Exactly.
Microsoft could not care less about consumers. Their bread and butter is Enterprise and they have more than enough growth there to not be bothered for quite some time.
...and that enterprise aint big, lol
I'd hate to agree, it's unfortunately true!
You're not kidding. I took my wife out to eat this week and used my Windows Phone to show my rewards card and the cashier was fascinated by the Windows Phone and admitted she'd never heard of it. I'm pointed out many times that while I've seen tons of commercials for the Microsoft Surface (especially during football games,) I've yet to see one for the phone or band or anything else "mobile."
Hm.. Are you US based??? Ofc you are. Think a little bit on people NOT having opportunities like that, cortana, region specific apps ... Those people are having enough of Windows phone ages ago. US citizens still claiming the tree but MS is spitting the last thousands users in Us so in the face mocking ENTERPRISE... LOL...me too have enough like millions more
To me it seems you just got angry at a random message, and decided to make a random argument from something that wasn't an argument lol
I don't believe it was the phone she was fascinated with. I think it was the Freak she was fascinated with and used the phone to strike up a more in depth conversation than "your total is...have a good evening". 😉
Yeah, they need to learn from Apple when it regards to marketing which is very successful for them. Though usually its also the proper execution products such highlighting most consumer relevant cool features, less "boring" stuff (not that they can't give all other great features), consistent product announcement and actually making them available at the announcement with wide availability. Apple take advantage of hype to get sales which where most consumers are enthusiastic. Delayed release tends to wane especially with fierce competition. Their ads on the other hand, it also needs to be presented that it is a lifestyle, I that it means something to the people everyday lives, and that the product feels like it helps you to enjoy. Not just trying to be a "salesman".
All those years I've raged on, and on, and on, and feverishly ON about MARKETING, with much opposition,, and here we are....... I'VE SAID IT A MILLION TIMES OVER! MARKETING IS WINDOWS PHONE'S BIGGEST ISSUE!
......
Do you people see, now?
It's not just Samsung that might beat them to this but LG too in some aspects (although maybe not when it comes to continuum). I did share this on the last relevant article you (or someone else on here wrote) but it was drowned out by the sheer number of comments: https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/12/samsung-and-lg-could-launch-foldable...
Interesting, I missed that. So seems LG is even experimenting something. Which is really interesting since the smartphone landscape is actually preparing to evolve or at least attempting to. Though concepts are common and natural, so we have really yet to see how they will translate into actual usable products that people can effectively use. Unfortunately thats the big issue with this community here. Many seems just find anything not-MS treated something like blasphemy and inferior. Not always at least but there is really just fanatic and denial here which is we have no choice but to accept and ignore. It's rather a psychological instance being on extremely fanboy and especially with current situation that people can get defensive and superiority when something is a good news. The problem is posting that actually helps the discussion even slightly negative will lead to downvote, which means nothing really except it ranked down in the long thread which many likely sorted their comment section based on that.
The foldable screen is an LG invention
Well, it would serve Microsoft right if Samsung steals their thunder. They are extremely lazy or just plain disorganized in execution when it comes to mobile. They don't market, advertise, or show any semblance of wanting their mobile products to be known. Great they can show their vision of what a product might look like five years from now then put those plans away in the attic to collect dust. I'm still amazed the Surface Pros are successful. I'm glad they are but still amazed. I'm still hoping they will bring something great with the rumored Surface phone, but my enthusiasm is surely waning.
I just hope that what Samsung is doing isn't going to shut down the effort Microsoft put already on the Surface Phone. I don't want them to cancel the project because the competition got something similar out and might not have space in the market. I hope MS accelerates things and announces a mobile device this year
My thoughts? Let Samsung bring it on... If it isn't running Windows, I don't really care. Don't get me wrong, it could/will be awesome stuff but android just isn't my cup of tea anymore. So far, my 950xl is still awesome and getting more awesome with each insider build really so my next device will surely be another Microsoft. One thing is sure : Exciting tech times are coming!
But the sheep like individuals around the world care. And that only is a problem because your care for wind 10 mobile didn't help it.
That applies to you, not to other millions of consumers.
If Samsung beats Microsoft to it, it would negatively impact market share
Exactly the kind of guys we welcome here ! The only difference between you and me is that I have never owned an Android or an Apple device 🙂
I wish they took the live tiles even further because it's the trademark of W10M and the feature I like the most on the OS
Continuum has improved greatly, I am using it to type this on the window central mobile app. It is so smooth and easy to use, no heating at all on the device. I am impressed.
I used my 950XL the other day while waiting for my surface to finish updating to a new build, I was pleasantly surprised how much continuum has improved since I last used it about 6+ months ago... I ended up using it for the rest of the day... My only issue with it is Citrix Receiver requires an update to work with continuum...
I don't really see a foldable Android Phone that can hook up to a larger display as being equivalent to a foldable ultraportable PC with Phone capability. That said competition brings better products to market.
Sorry, but constantly referring to it as an ultimate ultra mobile device is just lame.
Please, Just call it a Surface Phone, that's what it is first and foremost and sounds so much better than that mouth full.
Phone is the least important function. I rarely use my elitex3 to call. Why would MS make another phone? They already lost that market. An ultramobile PC is the next thing.
We'll see.
Doesn't alter the fact, calling it an ultra mobile PC or whatever, sounds lame.
Or you could just call it
Pocket PC.
or Surface Pocket
or Pocket Surface. Simple.
Yes, much better
Hey! I resemble that remark...
ULTIMATE ULTRA-MOBILE ARM-POWERED ALWAYS CONNECTED FOLDABLE DISPLAY COMPUTING DEVICE UUMAPACFDCD That's the name.
O.o
Motorola attempted an android 2-in-1 and if Samsung doesn't do something exceptional to apps it will be the same story. On the other hand if Samsung does change their apps to work well on both small and big screen it will still be tied to their own device and their own apps. It's still nowhere near the universal app concept with continuum and app handoff. MS just needs to do it right and market it right.
It was obvious others will move to introduce a mode like Continuum for phones into their products. It's one reason Microsoft needs the x86 emulation they showed off. Although I don't think it will immediately hit consumers as a must have thing (Unless they market it really, really, really well) there will hopefully still be the advantage of having "full" office and other x86 only applications.
So Microsoft wants to put a real PC in your pocket and you think that Samsung will beat them by putting a mobile on your desktop? Really?
Microsoft wants to put a full PC in your pocket, but they haven't yet and they are at least a year out. It hasn't been proven that the SD835 will do that and do it well. It may be very underpowered when used as a PC. Samsung is doing this very soon and will have the whole Android app market ready. It might but be as good for enterprise, but it certainly would be fine for consumer. That is a good starting point and performance won't be an.
The SD820 they demonstrated running photoshop is underpowered compared to the SD835 so I'm pretty sure performance won't be an issue at all, not to mention that everything will be optimised for the SD835 compared to the demo on the SD820.
You say that like Android apps were as powerful as desktop Windows ones. They're not, so how much of an advantage would that be?
What desktop only app is still relevant for consumers? Sure, if you are a graphic designer or engineer then you need CAD and Photoshop, but you aren't going to be doing that work on an ARM chip. You will have a workstation. Android apps and a full browser will be plenty for the average consumer who doesn't need professional software.
You said it all. The typical consumer does not need x86 apps at all. I personally only use office and Photoshop. Office for research papers, spreadsheets, PowerPoint and report writing, and Photoshop for Casual edits I do as a hobby. For those I have a AIO at home. Other than that, I have never felt the need for any other x86 apps. This why continuum won't help win consumers. BTW I am a business professional.
If they can get 80℅ of the steam library working on a ARM chip there is going to be a huge advantage to Microsofts continuüm over anything the guys at Android could ever cook up!
You would already carry a gaming laptop in that case or already have a gaming rig. Then you could play any Steam game, not just the low requirement games. This would not be a good sales driver, especially since it will be years before hardware is at that level.
I don't get it. Android isn't a full OS. I thought the point of Surface Phone was it is going to run full Windows 10. Something Android can't remotely compete with. No matter how foldable their device becomes. Google need to spend time building a proper OS. Not an App OS. When Full Windows 10 Mobile PCs hit the market the advantages will simply destroy IOS and Android. The smart move would be for Samsung to make this device with a snapdragon 835 running full Windows 10. How had WIndows Central completely made that part irrelevant from this article? An Android device like this running Android is not moving the curve. It's staying on the curve but foldable.
The problem is, nobody will know about this full win10 pocket pc because it will be targeted at phone users, which Microsoft sadly has almost none.
I would argue that they will target this at PC users not phone users, to be honest with you even if it wasn't a phone at all and just a tiny tablet that folds out to a bigger one and literally fits in your pocket I would buy it in a heartbeat, I would carry a cheap phone and just use for calls and hotspot. But even then, for MSs strategy it will likely be targeted at enterprise first and if it proves popular, good performance and a good UX they might push it to consumers or wait until the next iteration to make improvements and send to the masses. They made it work with Surface Pro after 3 iterations so I have no doubt they can do the same with mobile.
I actually didn't think about that. That would be better. But then again, what will people do with their Android or iOS phones? Would they need it? Would it really make them consider to buy this device? Would they just buy it as a pc and keep using their other Phones they already have? Would Microsoft even mention phone capability of that device if they target it at pc users?
Marketing, Jason ... That's been THE biggest issue. Please do a job on marketing. Give us your analysis since December of 2010..
I concur. A story on the Microsoft products that failed to gain traction because of poor/non-existent marketing or mixed messages.
Its not what if question, that's what always happnes with microsoft. They are always so slow in development, so defenitely someone else will comeout with that. Wait till someones comes with widely available version of HoloLense before them ! Sad part is after all the time they take most of the products are bugy. And you can downvote my comment as much as you like, but deep down you know this is the truth
You just spoke my mind bro.
I'm beginning to wonder what slows down their development.
Google don't find it difficult to add features to Android very quickly.
Maybe Microsoft are lean on developers. They need more staff.
If Microsoft wishes to succeed, they (and their OEM partners) need to promote the living daylights out of Continuum and Windows 10 as a whole. Start now, using for instance the HP Elite x3 as the "poster boy" for this vision and not necessarily the phone features (screen, camera, the usual "boring" stuff) so that people realize there is more to Microsoft than just Windows 10 on PC's and the odd commercial for the Surface Pro or Surface Book.
Surface products are advertised on TV here in Australia constantly, I see them multiple times a day and always see people using them at cafés. If only they did that same advertising blasting with their phones, they might be in a different position right now.
Marketing!
And I believe that's the problem in a nutshell. Continuum is a business type feature. The people I know and talk to about using a Windows Phone they typically reply "I don't want to use a phone for work. When I use my phone I want to use it for fun stuff.". When most people think about Windows Phone in general they think of work. And who wants to do that? No me. I'm glad the capabilities is there but that shouldn't be the go to factor. So the more I hear and read about Continuum all I see is RUN. This is a work phone and not a FUN device. They need to advertise and market a FUN use and feature using Continuum and not telling folks how great it is to be in the office every single minute of the day. IMHO.
This is a good point. Never thought about it like that... But, for now MS is focusing on enterprise, and their marketing is reflecting that.. Kinda makes sense they would talk up there productivity features.. I have a feeling MS, and a Surface mobile device, will always take on productivity as a selling point.. That's MS's best shot at relevance in mobile.. Even with consumers. I don't think a "Surface Phone" would ever be marketed towards a young demographic. Now, they could be marketed to Students, and younger people in that sense, but more as a convenience, or necessity......
.....
The only shot MS would have at marketing a Surface Phone as something fun would be to focus on W10, and Xbox gaming.. With W10OA I would think MS would take advantage of that no brainer.
While Samsung may have the mind share advantage, I think Microsoft has the technological advantage. It is certainly exciting times nonetheless! I for one can't wait!
Maybe from a software perspective, not hardware though. In fact from a mobile software solution perspective they actually don't have an advantage; lagging far behind actually. Product positioning will be interesting. Also their is the question of whether or not consumers even care about whatever they release. Hell, MS may not even release a phone/tablet crossover product.
While I certainly agree about their mobile position, with the advent of Win10 on ARM, I don't see mobile as being an issue. Everything will be on one OS. A separate mobile OS will no longer be needed therefore clearing the way for them to truly focus singularly on Win10 development. While no one knows about Win10 for phones, I don't believe there are many people that don't know about Win10.
The one OS with adaptive shell certainly sounds good to you and I, whether or not MS can gain some appeal/traction with general consumers on small form factor devices remains to be seen.
Are you saying that Samsung tablets are superior to Surface tablets? Because that's true Microsoft hardware. Lumias are Nokia hardware.
Nik, different markets bro. Samsung doesn't target business users like ms does. So specs and hardware will always be higher
Multiple markets, not different markets.
I'm saying Samsung is a hardware focused company and has the know how and means to compete with any company on that front. Really not a question of whether they are able to make a premium device. When they need to or the market demands it of them they can. On this front they have way more experience than MS.
Gotcha.
wow nick and dojo a mature discussion about tech. Awesome. Not a apple socks, Android sucks or Windows sucks.....there is information backing up and the other side if each argument has an open mind. Congrats.
Unfortunately, history shows that it's not always the best product that wins.
Doesn't matter if nobody knows about it.
Microsoft this is your chance to secure a good position in the mobile market plz don't mess up!!
Since I'm tired of Microsoft and their treatment ro Windows 10 mobile, would love to jump on Samsung but only if they had their own mobile OS...not Android. These Sammy guys have vision and support their products very well.
Anything that comes up to compete Android would exit the game quickly. It's very commendable of msft for being in the game, that's what I call 'a long term planning for a successful future'. Fall of droid will be on its own hand because of the security and privacy risk (an open source OS such as) that possess.
Why android.. I always wonder why some people hate the top dog in the industry... Like why? Is it Google or something else?? Enlight me
Yes. It's Google. Don't like.
Got it fanboy
So you asked a question, just so you could copy/paste a tired insult?
Yip, not sure why the hate. But it's all round. For some odd reason, WP users hate android/iOS. IOS hates WP/android. Android hates iOS/WP. Having said that, the mention of privacy risk on Android is not a worry at all if you know how to use a phone
Hey hey, I'm a MS fan but also like iOS and what they bring to the masses, it's possible to like both you know, just not Google products ;)
WP hates iOS/Android, but iOS and Android only hate each other. They don't even know about WP. 😅
It's not just fanboy-ism. I have a lumia 950xl and just recently grabbed the oppo f1s (had it about a month and use it regularly with a data-only SIM). Android has a few problems that I am finding: 1) The absolute fragmentation; phone providers putting out their own flavours (some better than others) creates a problem where phones dont get updated. this oppo is on lollipop 2) Notifcations; they are a mess. Sometimes I get no notifactions from certain apps. They are hit and miss. Even the ones that do get notifications arent instant like in Windows. It doesnt seem to be a real-time push; it's polled. 3) Notifications!! Android doesnt even have notification badges; you need to use a launcher that replaces the icons with widgets to get that. So without live tiles to tell you what app has what notifications, you have no way of knowing what apps have unread notifications! You could use the notification panel i guess but as i said before, some dont come through, and thats a cluttered way of referring to things. 4) cleanups? I've owned iphones and windows phones before this; I've never had a phone that has had to have a cleanup tool and virus scanner provided with it. What happened to memory management on the OS level? It's pretty bad that a phone needs to have these options to keep it running optimally 5) Icons; iOS and android are behind the times with this static grid of icons. Live tiles are really better. 6) Android UI; there are some things that are great about androids design philosophy; still incorporating drop shadows alongside the flat UI elements, not sticking to such extreme ends of the color palette for "light" and "dark" (hint: a dark grey is better to look at than "black" Microsoft) but it still cant get over this overall look of "Fisher price my first OS". A lot of the design elements feel too "fun" in that they come off juvenile and child-like. I don't like all of it. Microsoft still has a LOT of work to do on the UI but it has more elements that I do like than Don't; android has more i don't like than do (I'm talking stock, the Oppo F1s actually has a pretty great UI because of its blatant attempt to steal ideas from apple. but the apps arent affected by this and thats what I am referring to also) Remember, its not fanboy this and fanboy that. Overall i like having this second phone for the apps; and the oppo f1s is great value. But it also shows the pitfalls of the android OS; it's not without its problems and failures. There are so many things i prefer doing on my Lumia; and I can finally say this having used all three major mobile operating systems extensively. Im sorry but the biggest isse is these damn static boring icons. iOS and android both need to move past that. *EDIT* One interesting thing to point out that Microsoft should take note; my Oppo f1s was $250. The phone feels AMAZING to hold and use; it feels premium as hell. When i use my 950xl after that, i get upset. I feel sad. a $1000 phone cant even get close to feeling as premium as a $250 android handset. This is a big problem.
I agree with everything you say here. I too have a 950xl and it's a very good phone. I also have a Galaxy S7 that I bought just for VR. Nice hardware. Shame about the software.
Hopefully they use some advertisements this time around. When was the last time you saw a Windows Phone commercial? Haha
Other than a Microsoft site, probably Quantum Break XD
LOL, this would be like their 3rd or 4th attempt (PocketPC, KIn, Windows Phone, etc)... They screw it up everytime or at least find a way to screw it up. , what makes this one any better....
Sad but true
Hopefully, they must seriously must not f*** up another time. The usual problem is really within them and not the market. The problem is that they have much bigger problem to address than before. App gap is still a catch 22 problem that is the trickiest to solve, but not impossible as long as MS give consistent good results and actually not giving mixed signals to the mobile market. They don't have to be number 1, but just need to secure the respectable percentage in the market that users, developers and OEMs won't ignore. Becoming niche won't even solve the issue, it will just makes the process slower but still makes the user suffer from the lack of developer support by not having an app or having on-par quality, and OEMs not offering enough hardware choices to several markets and services for them. What we need is an action, a great result, not a technological promise and fan-service that only few of us can appreciate for a while.
They shouldn't have abandoned their mobile market share, OEM partners, developers that did invest invest in their mobile platform, and their loyal Microsoft fans that bought their mobile products. They not only have to build something great, but they have to convince people to trust them again.
UWP is not gng anywhere and continuum as it is, is just a gimmick. Retrenchment only caused losses that Ms still doesnt realize, and finally no, bots and bridges are not the solution.
Microsoft made a huge mistake when they left the consumer market to concentrate on corporate accounts.
Unless they bring the Surface Phone (does it really exist?) before this summer latest, they will lose the battle against Samsung and Android:
They cannot afford to wait until 2018 as I read somewhere because Samsung won't (you must agree that they are much more commercially efficient than Microsoft - maybe not as inventive, but enough to please an ever bigger customer base, while Windows phone's is shrinking a little more every day).
Microsoft needs to change its gear if they don't want their mobile division join BlackBerry or Palm faith...
Foldable device would fulfill the crave for ultimate multitasking, having the device rested on both palms and housing 10 point multi touch would make it a smartphone killer... When it comes to PC, Windows have always been a multitasking powerhouse while Android being mobile multitask master. Foldable device is purely an uncharted territory, it fits right in the middle so both parties must learn from each other to know what it takes to deliver such an Ultimate device.
What's good about this news is that when two large companies are at war trying to compete for top spot; it is the consumers who ultimately win in the end. Think about it, without competition there would be no innovation.
Nadella doesn't seem willing to fight. He appears to want to run from fights, and hope to appear where someone won't compete.
.
We'll, if Nadella won't go after Android, Samsung will use Android to go after Microsoft. And, Samsung will bring a bunch of consumers, apps, and developers with them.
.
When Nadella fled the mobile battlefield, he left his old supports (OEMs, developers, consumers) to get slaughtered.
What's to stop Samsung from also making a Windows based Surface phone? They already do Windows 2-in-1s, so surely if the aim for this proposed Surface phone is to have a full version of Windows running on Arm, then it can be marketed as a tablet first with the added benefit of being a phone and their android version could be marketed as a phone first and a tablet second. It would make sense for Samsung to dabble in both sectors as a Microsoft OEM to see what works best for them and to ensure their hardware gets the most amount of sales from both operating systems, it's a win-win for Samsung from my point of view. If Google were to do a Surface style phone however, then that's another game entirely. As far as I'm concerned, Microsoft need to really leverage their OEMs to really use full versions of Windows to market these new 2 in 1 mobile devices and adopt the Windows mobilre shell. Or better yet, allow OEMs to modify the shell to their liking, customisation and subtle differences in the UI among different android devices is one thing that can draw in more users to android phones, they don't feel like every phone has the same front end.
The list of things stopping Samsung from making a Windows based phone is very long. The big points are: 1. People do not buy them 2. Microsoft does not consistently support them 3. Locked down software, they cannot innovate beyond what Microsoft gives them
I should take a shot of this screen to show you when the OEMs *do* build. 1. Not a reason....just your stump speech
2. This is problem, actually. If they feel burned and abandoned, Microsoft is going to have to make that right.
3. False. No, you won't be able to tinker with the UI or Start Menu, but innovation comes in other ways. HP innovated. Samsung...and others will find a way. They would likely get some OS level exceptions to work with other Samsung products. Who knows what these companies are cooking up? You and I don't.
1. People don't buy Windows phones. Never have. That is the biggest reason OEMs don't use it today. Not sure how you can argue this isn't true?! 2. Yup, big issue. Microsoft isn't committed to mobile and they keep rebooting and using the same strategy. No wonder it never works. 3. HP didn't innovate at all. They threw Windows Mobile on a 6" phone and used Continuum. There was no innovation. Lapdocks and software emulation have been available for years.
1. "People don't want em" is not analysis as much as it is a folksy t-shirt. I can argue this because you are mislabeling effect as cause. The branding isn't likely the issue or Microsoft couldn't sell ANYTHING. I know the simple thing is the easiest thing to copy/paste on EVERY thread, but that doesn't make it fact. 2. Well, we agree on something. 3. Under your definition, making a UI aesthetically different isn't "innovation" either. Who has done emulation on that level on a mobile device?
Of course lack of sales is a symptom of creating an inferior platform. If Microsoft had created an operating system that was more desirable than Android, then they would have been able to keep up in sales and grow to a sustainable market. Why Windows phones were not desirable is debatable, but what it isn't debatable is if they were desirable. They weren't. There are a bunch of Virtualization apps available on Android and I assume iOS as well. It isn't anything new.
Really? Name like three of the "bunch". Also, it's not on that level. What are they emulating? Old video games?? Not the same thing. Not the same level. Actually, **your** takeaway is that it is an "inferior platform". You choose to ignore every other variable that played into this. Being late was one. Not having Google and other apps was another. Those first two things made sure that the journalists never gave it a chance and took every chance to bash it and promote the "app gap". Sales people in stores carried that mantle and would talk people out of it by telling customer who...desired the platform...to choose something else because there were "no apps" for it. Again, you have no real data to support your opinion wrapped up as fact. Until you show me a single study that says "no...that's ugly and I want the OEMs to change it for me", please stop reporting it as fact. NO, saying sales were low is NOT verifiable factor, so save us all time and come with a new argument. I have faith in you because you seem to be on a mission to bash. I'm not sure why you spend so much time bashing something that according to you, is dead with no chance of revival. Why not just move on? It seems the only announcement that Microsoft could make that would satisfy you is that "we're quitting because 'people just don't want it'" .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2013/08/27/parallels-launche... Virtualizes any Mac or Windows Programs and even makes them touch friendly. Versions of this app has been available since 2011. Dell has its vWorkstation app as well. There are a few Linux virtualization apps for Android and I assume iOS as well. Virtualization isn't new, it just takes enough power to have a decent experience. I just want Microsoft to try something else. The Windows phone strategy has failed. At what point do you stop trying the same thing year after year? 6 years of non-stop failure isn't enough for you?
None of that is being done on Android where you said a "bunch" of that is happening.
Parrallels Access is a remote access app. Doing it on mobile the way HP is doing it, is innovative. The issue is that you refuse to give ANYTHING Windows ANY credit, EVER. Your words don't sound as if you want Microsoft to do anything different. Your manta is "People just don't want Windows". That's not hopeful for a new direction. That sounds as if you think all is hopeless.
Dude, don't go there.....They (Microsoft) may be going all Toronto Maple Leafs on us and going for 50 plus years of failure! ha ha ha.....
I did state that it could be marketed as a tablet running a full version of Windows first right? If it still performs well as a stand alone tablet, then the addition of being a phone is only an added benefit which should give it means to be more successful than a windows phone on it's own.
Microsoft beat Samsung ? lol
Still waiting for Sammy to upgrade the ATIV SE to Win 10! Love this phone with long batt life and swappable battery. But, may not see this happening?
A turtle(MSFT) running against a rabbit(SAMSUNG)
Slow and steady wins the race.
I hope so for this case
but MS is slow and not steady
Not if you keep stopping to reconsider the path you want to take to the finish line which is what Microsoft has been doing with Mobile.
Can I really be the only one thinking this foldable stuff is not only outdated, but ultimately impractical...? Good luck fitting that double-thick device in your jeans pocket or using it one-handed in cramped and urgent conditions! The way I see it, MS will have to play to their strength and work from there. Google is strong in the mobile field, and is slowly working their way into the pc market. MS is the other way around, and should be focusing on working FROM their successful Surface line down towards mobile; not skipping directly to mobile. Not because they couldn't do it, but because the consumers aren't there. They need to focus on existing customers and bring them along, instead of trying to win new ones in a new market... Regardless, I don't see a foldable device as the answer.
Agree. I don't need something that's foldable.
I think the idea is that a foldable device that could say be used as a 5"phone or unfold to a 10" tablet is MS trying to tap into their existing customer base. It essentially is a cross between a tablet and phone, a nice middle ground to attract their existing customer base. Once you get interest in that form factor and more apps start flowing in you will see more traditional phone factors coming to market. I believe that will be their positioning, whether or not it is a successful strategy remains to be seen.
A 10" tablet would still be huge folded in half., Much larger than a 6" phone, let alone a 5" phone.
Yeah sorry, my bad, my dimensions/way of thinking about the fold were off.. What I meant was if you take a phone with a dimension of 3" by 5.5". If you could make something which could unfold to say 6" by 5.5" that could be a pretty interesting product.
Sometimes I wonder why they call this Windows Central
Windows Phone?
@haloDust You have to realize that no company, including Microsoft, exists in a vacuum. The evidence that the actions of other company's affects Microsoft's fortunes in the industry is their current position in Mobile which was directly affected by first Apple's introduction of the iPhone and Androids march to dominance. Not to talk about Microsoft within that larger context would be telling a very limited and narrow part of the story. I hope that helps🙂
If you don't look at the competition to better understand the outcome of Microsft's efforts, then you're deluded.
This site used to be call WindowsPhoneCentral... AKA WPcentral.com (if you go there, you will still get here)
Windows is a hell of a lot more than crappy phones HaloDust.
I for one will not go for these two screen flip phones unless they can make it with no crease in the tablet mode screen and also when closed into phone style its no thicker than say my L950 is now.
Samsung beats MS every time they launch a new phone.
As usual, this is a great article Jason. With that said, I'm not concerned with Samsung's entry into this market because this is a win-win scenario for Microsoft.
My reasoning behind this is as follows:
1. Mindshare for a competitor's solution can bolster visibility for all products in that market. Regardless of who enters the market first, Samsung will inevitably generate more press and mindshare. It would be ideal if Microsoft were to take the market by storm but it isn't likely. In that case, Samsung's adoption of this approach will actually legitimize Microsoft's Continuum more than a Surface cellular PC could accomplish on its own.
2. As you rightly point out, Microsoft's app model is well ahead of the curve. This positions Office and other premium services as a marquee partner for Samsung. That brings even more visibility to Microsoft in lieu of other competitors.
3. Samsung is a hardware company that is desperately trying to transform itself into a platform company. Hardware companies are notoriously terrible with software unless they start as a company that is equally focused on both. The best example for this is Apple. Samsung's execution and support is a big problem.
4. Samsung will almost certainly tie Continuum-like features into their hardware portfolio. Interoperability has not been a focal point because their revenue model depends on hardware sales. That inherently limits ubiquitous use of their product.
5. A large application catalog that does not natively support dynamic input and output modes nullifies the benefit for such a solution. The same problem applies to the iPad Pro with the lack of mouse/touchpad support. The battle between Touch Events and Pointer Events rages on with Microsoft being the beneficiary of an adaptive model. Android and iOS lack the fundamental components necessary to scale and only now do they realize that they have painted themselves into a corner.
Yeap MS software is without a doubt the most ready solution for such a phone... So I agree with that win win situation.... They really need to find a way to bridge apps.... Without the app gaps and the right device and with the true unified ecosystem a good marketing there is no reason for MS not to gain traction.... But to be fair.... What is painted in that article is far from what I expect to be the ultimate phone or should I say the next big thing... So if MS is really working on that I'm not worried it'll uphand that with ease...
I would prefer Sony and LG partner together to create the ultimate mobile device.
That runs android???
That runs Windows. Samsung is to busy with Android to care about Windows.
Problem is I'm not sure Sony will be making for much longer.... Pretty sure it will be sold sooner or later... Like Vaio was....
Microsoft's success with this "game changer" is based on the premise that people will actually want a mobile device running Windows in some flavor. Can anyone honestly say they believe this will be the case?
Not right now but I hope someday they will.
They need to drop the name Windows from mobile completely. Referenceing your new product to what the masses perceive as windows-that's blue screens, slow buggy desktops and old school work related un cool tech-is a massive mistake.
Its been like suggested countless times about this. There is actually a point why branding the OS not Windows can be actually good. Thing is, the brand is just way too strong and its really part of MS identity. There seems not a lot of other reason really to change brand and the brand "Windows" actually still kinda catchiest name MS can get (It was almost going to brand with something else back in a day but saved by marketing people at early MS days to be Windows). Thing is they just have to be really fix their fundamental company issues than just a brand. No matter what the brand is, if the end-result have issues, people will going to dislike it. They can make Windows cool, they really just have to at least avoid making significant missteps in the making. At the moment Windows 10 is accused of "spying", ads, bugs, and forced updates. 4 popular things so far that associate with Windows 10 that needs to be addressed. If they manage to fixed all those or at least the first 3, then Windows 10 will slowly gain a good reputation.
The name doesnt matter. Its from Microsoft and everyone knows it.
I think there is a niche market of users that would love this, but they still wont buy it because as a phone, the apps are not there. There is no way around that. The PC is becoming less and less relevant. The masses would rather sacrifice on a PC experience for a better mobile experience. Few are willing to sacrifice the mobile experience for a PC capability.
If Microsoft wasn't holding back the continuum feature on older phones might have gained some traction. The hack to get it going on my 1520 easy and works flawlessly.
We. Are. Doomed.
This is one of my own most preferred article from Jason.. Good thinking bro!!!
It's still android on a big screen. Apps don't function well like that because they are mainly targeted at phones or small tablets without a mouse. Not many people who use android apps on a Chromebook actually use the apps after the first few days. Same idea. Their apps aren't made for big screens and mouse input. They have the exact opposite problem Microsoft has. And they are going the wrong way. :)
Beg to differ. Apps on the Galaxy note work just like on my lepan tablet. That argument was washed up years ago.
Even if that is true, Samsung sells a huge number of phones and will convince developers to update their apps for desktop. They will bring developers to the platform, something Microsoft has been able to do.
The big problem for samsung is that few android developers actually makes apps that make use of tablet screen sizes. On top of that this system would be custom to Samsung, not part of Android so getting any devs on board is an even bigger issue. It's not something MS has to be too worried about yet and Samsung may choose Win10 Celluar PC to make an attempt in this market.
See my above comment. That's years ago. Android apps scale to screen just fine.
Please prove that it's not downvoter....I use android everyday, I use iOS everyday, I use windows everyday. Not windows mobile however it's just to far behind.
Nice article Jason but I'm not certain why its needed or even a surprise if Samsung get out their device first. All the points you made are valid but most importantly, Samsung has been researching/demoing their screen tech for a long while now, they have a huge head start and let's not forget, they are a hardware manufacturer something MS is with respect, still a newbie at. So for me I expect Samsung to release their device first not because it will be better or they are quicker but because they need to after the Galaxy Note disaster. I'll let MS take their time, IF this device does/will,carry the Surface name, then you'd want it to be worthy of the name and MS for one will not want to risk a blemish on the reputation the brand has built.
Hmm pretty sure if MS uses a foldable screen it won't be them manufacturing it will be either Samsung or LG anyway.... And while you are right they are noobs at manufacturing.... Or engineering for manufacturing purposes should be the right term... They are anything but noobs at R&D in the tech field... They are actually the ne of the biggest in the world at that game... And pump out more patent in a month than some companies in a year even among the big ones... And this is a good part of their business people seem to forget more often that not.... Heck I wouldn't be surprised if that Samsung phone would be making good money for MS through royalties alone if it ever came out....
I get what you are saying, MS has so many patents, they will possibly be making money from whatever device Samsung release. I don't however think that they will be uses either Samsung or LG for screen, I think given the recent trend of the Surface products, everything will be predominantly be made in house by MS or with a partner that creates a bespoke requirement.
Samsung, LG and Apple all have folding screen patents. It looks like Apple and Microsoft will be getting the screen from LG, so it is likely Apple will also have a folding phone. Samsung will probably beat all of them though and they do not need to share the display like LG. They can keep it exclusive for a while.
I guess we may need Samsung to save windows mobile. We all know MS is not up for the job. Maybe Samsung will come up with an all in one windows arm device that will do what MS is still thinking about. Time to market with MS is way too slow to catch up with the competition. And once its available its bug ridden. With my company we switched all pc's to windows 10 shortly after it was released. A year later windows explorer and excel still crash multiple times every day on every pc. How difficult can it be?
If they could get the OS to gain some traction, a NOTE with pen support etc running 10 would be awesome, but no apps is the killer!
About 3 months back, didn't I see a report that Samsung had applied for a patent for a dual OS phone? I could get into that - premium Samsung phone that i could run important android apps on and keep in W10M mode the rest of the time.
I would welcome a foldable phone. Forget that nonsense Snapchat. Windows mobile is here to stay and not one app will kill it. Give me Office services, Xbox, and windows 10 continuum and I'm all in. I don't need to see peoples 5 second Snapchat clips. Nothing important exists in these social apps. Most are still on Facebook, Instagram and they still have videos. If people need to contact me, they do so thru text. Im excited for this new phone.
Those are not the apps that are killing windows mobile. It's the multitude of travel, business, shopping, and other apps that are. I don't use social media other than fb for family members, but have over 50 apps that I use regularly, no, make that very regularly on both my iPhone and note that are MIA on Windows Mobile. Apps like airline, hotel, car rental, shopping, navigation apps plus others. And before you say websites, they do not have the functionality that apps provide us for travelling.
That's nice. I don't travel often. And when I do, all I need is an ID and airline conf. number. All done and printed from a pc. Don't be a Debbie Downer. It's still possible to ''shop'' on mobile browser, if not on surface or pc. Common folks use social media more than shop. Debbie downer.
Ha ah. Not a Debbie downer. More like Randy realist....we travel a lot and all the apps etc make it faster and easier. Sure you can you it the old slow way, like yourself. But lots of people embrace new technology that make things faster and easier. It really is refreshing. You should try it sometime. Instead of being stuck clinging to one company that could care less about you, try something new and refreshing. Never know you may like all the features that you cannot use on Windows Mobile. Give you a thumbs up for not using the lemming term. Thanks. I was a Debbie downer on my 1020. Missed out on a lot of great apps that make our lives more efficient travelling and doing things. Glad we swapped to iPhone. Was really refreshing to use up to date technology while on the go. Our 1020s had awesome cameras but the rest was very much lacking.
Maybe Samsung builds the Microsoft device.
Who knows.
Microsoft kicked out many their fans and developer. They will lose
Would never buy a foldable screen. Physics says it will eventually break. Microsoft does not do well with bendy.... Microsoft band 2.
Or Band 1 for that matter... I've had problems with both
Wasn't there an (early ?) android device, I believe it was on Sprint who did something like this. Looked like almost a bar dial pad phone but, it opened up with 2 screens ? If I remember corrrectly, it was a complete failure...
We have repeatedly seen the results of Samsung rushing product to the market to beat someone else. The companies long history of "bust into flames" product has long stretched beyond the Note fiasco. They have a history of TV Fridge Dishwasher and especially Washing machine failures that have all conveniently wandered into history. In Australia the washing machine one has now been going for a spectacular 10years. Great they copy and expand an idea, but they really need to refine and debug before releasing to the public, unlike their past efforts. To Microsoft's credit they have learnt the mistake of trend following "RT, Band etc" and now take the time to perfect then release. I will happily sit on my 1520 till then, it is now 4 years old and now has 10times the features of when I bought it. Battery is down to a day so I might put a new one in. People are constantly moaning about the short term picture while Microsoft has now switched to the smarter long term picture. Those who ask why Microsoft spend so much time developing WM10 when its 1percent market share, its simple, to bridge the gap till they are ready to have Win10 on a handheld device. Roll on the future, its now starting to look awesome and nothing now to stop a compact Win10 HoloLens device running on ARM.
Yes they will, and because it's Android, people will buy it. The sad reality is that most people and developers just aren't interested in Microsoft's mobile offerings, no matter what they wrap it in. Now, if they were (not saying they ever would) but if the Surface team were to have a go at a premium Microsoft flavoured Android offering, that might interest a lot of people. Considering how many frequently updated Apps they have in the Android ecosystem, it wouldn't take much to make it very Microsoft-centric.
Well I did have an essay to post for this. But it disappeared... So, short version without well thought out details: Like I have said before like others have and continue to do so, Microsoft sucks at marketing and it will be the reason why they keep missing waves. Samsung is rumored to announce their version of Continuum. Microsoft already has Continuum working but no one knows their phones exist let along Continuum. Hell, I bet a lot of Microsoft employees don't even know they sell phones or if they do, that Continuum exists. Lumia 950/XL were the first phones available with Continuum but Microsoft didn't tell the world about the new technology. Funny thing is, Samsung will look at Continuum, and make sure that at launch it has everything plus the things it was missing. We will then see the next Galaxy come out with it and EVERYONE will see the commercials touting the new feature. I can see the commercial Samsung has for it: Camera shows a student writing a paper but then realizing needs to leave to make the bus/train to go to class gets ready to leave. Looks like he/she is using a desktop because we see a monitor, mouse, keyboard, and some speakers. He/she disconnects the Galaxy from the dock which everyone thought was just the charger, and then camera shows him/her continuing the paper on the phone. Then shows student at library printing out that paper using the same phone and then hands in said paper. Can be done in a 30 second video and the world would never know Microsoft had Continuum on Lumia 950/XL. This is their problem. They think they can just release something and people will be searching for a Microsoft product. That is not the case. People rarely do research on anything. The majority go by what they hear and see. Microsoft is always late to the party. But if late, make noise. Hell when Samsung and Apple are late to the party, they make it seem as if the party is just now getting started. That's the difference between Microsoft and their competitors. No one knows you make phones. No one knows you have an innovative product called Continuum, while in it's infancy, has so much potential especially with Windows 10 on ARM. Marketshare will continue to be low if Marketing is given more of a priority. Apple and Samsung understand this, hence the reason they are at the top. So will Samsung beat Microsoft to market with an ultimate mobile device? I sure hope not because their choice will most likely not be Windows 10 Mobile or Windows 10 on ARM. It will be a new Galaxy Note device with Continuum-like capabilities and complete access to the Google Play Store and show off the productivity with Office for Android. That will throw the rumored Surface Phone into a 'me too' product if they cannot beat Samsung to market. I hate Android, so I hope Microsoft hurries up. I wouldn't be surprised if they do beat Microsoft at their own game. *still turned out to be an essay lol*
It is rumored to be the Galaxy S8 that is being launched very soon, not the Note. Microsoft stopped advertising Windows phones years ago because it didn't help. It was just a waste of money. They also only created the L950 for fans. They weren't too interested in selling them to anyone else as they were very rough when first released. It would look bad if they marketed it heavily.
Good article, and I hope we do see a foldable phone in 2017. I have to say though the Samsung video is laughably bad.
Time will tell. We can only wait and see. I have watched Samsung come a long way in what seems a like a short time, to me anyway. Microsoft stands alone on their side of the fence though. Samsung has had to reach into their pocket to try an pull out a Ferrari when everyone thought it could only be a matchbox car. That's what it is like in the sea of android devices...
Samsung will beat microsoft, samsung do right things in right time. MS will be waiting 2018 to realese thir surface phone and that will be to late. People will forget about windows.
Unfortunately, this may be the likely scenario. Instead of letting everyone know Continuum already exists and is in the wild, they will let Samsung steal their thunder. Even if they started marketing the Lumia 950/XL, Elite X3, etc. now and touted the Continuum feature, it would at least secure the idea as theirs rather than Samsung or god-forbid Apple.
F.U.D.
Like Thurrott said without the apps it doesn't matter how cool the Surface Phone is.
I think if they want this to succeed, they will have to invest in the app development of the core apps that are missing. Since a lot of companies at one time believed in what Microsoft was offering and left after feeling that Microsoft cared more for competing platforms, Microsoft should be paying to have some of these apps developed. For instance, idk what is going on with SnapChat but I do know that at the University of Michigan, SnapChat is the main method of communication, not Facebook Messenger. No SnapChat, no new generation customers. It's not hard to see what the top 10 apps on iOS and Android are and throw together some teams to figure it out. I don't use it myself, not because its not available, I just don't care for it. Even if Nadella himself has to contact these companies themselves, the PR and Marketing needs to be stepped up. I feel as if they just asked, they said no, and MS left it at that instead of fighting, just like the YouTube app.
It has the apps - facebook, netflix, skype, twitter, tinder, alarm apps, banking apps, I could go on but they have more than enough apps to start marketing their phones. They are just dumb.
The current Facebook app is slow. Skype Preview is our only option at the moment and is glitchy (shouldn't be forced to use a preview version), and I don't see very many banking apps at all. Still waiting on the Chase - Microsoft Wallet integration that was labeled as "coming soon". Don't have an app for that popular bank. A lot of people use apps such as Mint, SnapChat, your mainstream retailers, and restaurants. The thing is, some of these companies have mobile friendly websites which is fine. But in the case of Mint, have fun with that. Even if we do have a certain mainstream app, usually it lacks feature parity. However, I agree with still having enough to market their devices. How else are the apps going to come at this point? We need more apps in order to allow a seamless transition from an iPhone or Android phone, most of the users daily used apps have to be available.
I would almost expect it. MS has two moves: Be really late to market, or let the competition perfect their stuff with greater success.
Great article but gonna have to change the title to "Samsung to beat Microsoft with the ultimate mobile device" Microsoft is normally late to the competition.
The answer is yes. Microsoft is always late for everything
Except they're usually one of the first to enter a market from tablets to smartphones to smart watches to subscription music to now AR headsets. A better examination would be to ask why Microsoft is usually first to a market but perceived as being last. Without question we can all agree their timing and promotional skills are historically poor.
Yeah. I'm pretty sure Samsung is going to beat MS at its own game... Continuum is great, and the MS solution will probably be technically superior and provide a better desktop experience, but Samsung has the reach and the mindshare and actually knows how to market stuff. We'll see, though.
I wish Microsoft knew how to use marketing to tell people about features and their value. Most people don't know.
Microsoft doesn't have any mobile products worth marketing. There is a reason they aren't pushing mobile. Maybe they make another attempt, but if Samsung beats them to the punch and becomes successful with it, they probably won't bother. It will be become another Surface Mini or McLaren.
Instead they use a silly hipster singing songs about the competition....REALLY GREAT MARKETING!
Just some hindsight here first, remember apple pre iPod? They were pretty much done as far as the tech press were concerned, they're gear was clunky odd looking and you couldn't even connects printer to it, the iPod didn't get that much advertising at first and the add machine wasn't great to begin with. Remember the ultimate mobile depends upon user perspective and preference and that includes os.
Well yeah on the hardware side they can... But on the software aspect android is anything but a good solution for a multi device support ecosystem described in that article.... Actually win10 is the most advanced so far in that regard... Android becoming a standard in IoT in its current form would be catastrophic.... It's not optimized, not versatile and worst of all not secured....
Android is available on way more device types than Windows and the apps are able to scale according to device. This has been the norm for years now. This site just likes to ignore that they added that functionality years ago.
I have said that regarding apps scaling in multiple threads here, and they don't seem to get that its has been available since like the days of my note 1. Dunno....selective hearing I guess!
I'd love to see Samsung create a Galaxy Pro S running Windows 10. The Galaxy TabPro S is a great tablet whose only really competition is the Huawei Matebook. They should market these foldable devices as a Windows PC that can become your phone.
Since no one answered the question directly, I will.
Yes!
I take no joy in saying this but, Microsoft is like the dude who always arrives late to the party. By the time he gets there all the girls have been picked up by other guys. So, he goes home early and alone because nobody is left to interact with because they're all busy with somebody else.
Microsoft is always late which explains Tablet PC, UMPC, SPOT watches, Ultimate TV, Pocket PC, Zune Pass and HoloLens. I think you can make a better case that they're too early with bad marketing more often than they're too late.
A few people here have stated that Microsoft is always late to the market. That is simply, factually not true. In many cases MS has been way ahead of the market, and failed either because the market wasn't ready, or more often because the execution wasn't good enough. That's actually Apple's supreme strength. I can't think of anything they actually invented, but they managed in critical products to deliver a far superior version compared to anything seen before. Right now that's no longer true of Apple, though I wouldn't count them out yet. Samsung? Not sure.. they make some nice hardware, but does anyone really like Touchwiz? But I wonder too where the demand is for a small tablet? is it going to be so much better than the phablets already available, which have more or less cannibalised demand for small tablets (hence the cancellation of the Surface Mini). If this is really going to be a working tool, regardless of which OS it runs, it also needs to solve the input problem - which it might through a separate folding keyboard, but then is it really going to be any better or more convenient (or even cheaper) than having an ARM-based 2in1 hybrid + a mid-range phone? I'd take W10 over Android any day on the hybrid, but as things stand, with the app gap and simple hardware availability it has to be Android on the phone, with Cortana keeping the two linked.
Steve Jobs was a detail fanatic, and this made the iPhone a major success. This is long gone, and for their last iteration, they got more than enough of their well deserved criticism.
If the 'Surface Phone' is running Windows 10 ARM and can be a full PC if unfolded then I find it highly desireable. I would love to have full computer in my pocket that I don't have to carry around in a bag. If it requires continuum to be a PC then I'm not so sure. For all purposes, Android tablets have failed. They are just a big phone without calling capability and many are WiFi only and they are only small part of the overall Android market which mostly consists of phones. Google themselves had planned a modular phone known as Project Ara but they killed the project after realizing there would be no market for it. I don't think a foldable Android phone/tablet would be much better. The best chance Microsoft has to succeed is a full PC capable of running Win32 apps when unfolded but can also be used as a phone when folded, perhaps one that could also run Android apps via Google Chrome or emulation (ie Bluestacks).
It's not about who's first, it's about who does it better. Exhibit A. Apple iPhone.
It's not even about who is better, it's about who markets what they have better.
We also have to consider that Samsung might play conservative this year to rebuild from the Note7 disaster. Samsung isn't competing against MS here, just Apple. We know Apple wont innovate something here, so there is no market push to get it out the door.
Exactly. Samsung does not even have ms on their radar in mobile. There is no reason to. They have only apple to contend with. Ms released the 950 series and Samsung went "awwww how cute". They are more worried about xaomoi, and heauwei
I feel that there would be a lot more Windows Mobile/Phone users if Microsoft committed to getting great phones on the carriers such as VZW and Sprint. The OS was growing and showed promise with applications and user base then we were stranded with no upgraded path. WTF man. Do they like being the underdog?
How exactly is there no upgrade path. I upgraded to a 950XL least year and could now upgraded to a HP or Alcatel device..
At this point, I doubt MS can make up any ground in the phone market without at least one of the following..... 1. Some type of proprietary battery tech that allows your phone to last a week or a month on a single charge (like normal to heavy usage for a week) 2. Some way of circumventing carriers and still have the same quality of service at a MUCH lower price Without either there is no compelling reason to write apps for windows or switch to Windows Phone....
1.) I would love to see true wireless charging come to market once and for all. They've been teasing the electricity like Wi-fi tech at CES for over a decade now and we have nothing to show for it. A phone that is still charging even when it's in your pocket would be awesome. 2.) Google Fi or Republic Wireless. They license Sprint, T-Mobile and US Cellular networks, route most of your data usage/calls through open-wifi, they are able to charge significantly less and refund you every month for the data you don't use. 3.) Stop thinking of it as Windows phone and start thinking of it as Windows on a device that can be a phone, tablet, laptop, or desktop. There are just phones that run Windows like there are tablets that run Windows. Bringing full Windows 10 to ARM, making cellular data standard in Windows PCs, and developing foldable devices is a way to make the form factor categorization irrelevant. The next 10" Surface tablet could fold in half and become a 5" phone. Within 7-10 years a computer/tablet that doesn't fold and bend or roll up will be considered as outdated as a computer that doesn't have a touch screen today.
Well yeah, of course they will.
Also, don't people realize that the surface is actually just a rectangle slab with faster processor, and a new way to unlock it? The difference is that they made their slab better than the rest which is all a company can hope for, but Windows tablets existed before the Surface, Microsoft just did it right. Samsung is far more likely to release something a lot sooner than Microsoft.
I've seen a few fan based presentations of Microsoft products on YouTube that were superior to Microsoft ads. Microsoft doesn't have any consumer acumen.
Anyone that thinks that the Surface Phone doesn't exist is insane, they are Surfacing everything that is out and innovating while they're at it, the Surface Pro was a tablet/pc the Surface Studio is an iMac/desktop/giant touch screen and the Surface Phone will be a Surface Pro mini with phone capabilities, even if it's just a tiny Surface Pro with a mini magnetic keyboard (I guess the same magnetic dock will be able to accept modular components too)
Continuum is stupid to rely on as a mobile savior... Who has monitors laying around without PCs attached to them? No one. Continuum is neat, but has limited practical use. Now a phone that can transform into a standalone PC (foldable display, etc.) is cool. But if Samsung is going to beat MS to it, then MS should just partner wth Samsung and stop trying to go after a 1% market share.
I use it on my tv's and its awesome.
Missing the main point of it. People can use it on the move with tvs in hotel rooms or monitors in offices when travelling..
I use it in our classroom, that all have projectors
You can Continuum to any Win10 PC out there, bringing your own Windows environment, documents, etc. You can Continuum to TV sets in hotels and other peoples homes. 1% market share is sales data, for the last quarter, not a % of users. Regardless, these numbers aren't static. If they were, nothing new would ever happen. So, no, they wouldn't be chasing the 1%, they'd be chasing growth. You can argue whether they are up to the task or possess the stuff to gain the attention of journalists and carriers, which drive sales. You can't really argue the opportunity that exists in an ever changing technology market. Today doesn't equal tomorrow.
Furthermore, moreover, furthermore, moreover - my God this is like reading a 5th grade essay.
The Nexus 6 was one of the finest cell phones I've ever owned. I bought an HP Elite x3 during the holidays and it's changed what I thought a cell phone could be. The battery life, the screen, great web browsing, and an excellent build made the switch painless. I'm not sure if buy one of these folding cell phones. Integration with your computer still needs some work. The HP docks my phone right into Windows 10. I'd like to see improvement there. Also the app store organization is terrible. When is someone going to put apps correctly by categories. Finding what you need to make windows mobile work is possible but the way things are organized at the store is still lousy
Remember when Samsung made phones for Windows? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Why do people think that Microsoft alone can do this. It's not like Surfaces are available in every country. If they want to change the game they need others to join in as they do with computers. They need Samsung, Sony, Dell, HP etc. It's not that far fetch to think that Samsung and Microsoft maybe release a "foldable phone" with W10 at the same time.
Samsung will just release an android phone.
The target is to have "tablet in a pocket", but you need touch-apps to make this happen. So, this is combined with the turnaround strategy focusing on creators and developers, which is getting not enough attention IMO. A strategy, which is still lacking, in some respects. If you want to build to iOS, you need a Mac. If you want to build to Windows, you need Windows. Only if targeting Android, you can build on any machine. So, the developer equation is "Android + (iOS or Windows)". So, if developers return to Windows with their dev machines, they will still have the very same problem. As compilers in the cloud are readily available, I wonder why Microsoft doesn't pivot its strategy around such a service. If they did, and developing for Windows would be reduced to a compilation target, then we talk about competitiveness in apps. And then, and only then, Samsung would instantly ask themselves, what platform they should choose. The question, if Samsung will come to market in advance of Microsoft is a mood one, then.
If google just released a continuum like option, you can expect, even msft pc division will die soon. Msft is simply too slow.
If they did this, ChromeOS will die first. So, they basically won't do this, at least not by using Android. Btw, RemixOS ist readily available.
Ubuntu phone already had continuum like feature before microsoft. As a matter of fact Microsoft took a lot of inspiration from ubuntu on both 8 and 10
Ubuntu had the idea, but never actually had a device. It was/is vaporware without an actual device.
Samsung has the commercial success on its side. It would be a hard battle for Microsoft. The current Mobile system didn't won the consumers. It would be also hard to start from scratch and get consumers. Specially when consumers listen 'Windows' and the app gap comes first on their heads. And like continuum isn't known for many people out there as you mention in your article, many people won't notice the one platform of Windows and the advantages you mention. Everything I think is on commercial business. As long as someone has the commercial success he get consumers. Like apps on TV commercials. If you see apps on TV commercials you see also "get it in google play" and "download from app store". Even if the app is exist on Windows you won't see the download logo from microsoft (personally I have seen that only on Dragon mania legends) So we shall see. It's the last paper from Microsoft. Even if they want to concentrate on business market and don't want to do the things that other platforms do, they should keep an eye on consumer market. Only time will tell
There is only so much more you can do with a portable device. HDMI cables, WiDi , Miracast, Chromecast are all attempts to unify the phone and PC. Anyone remembers the Asus attempt called the Padfone ?
BS. We are just getting started. Glasses, contacts, brain implants.....
I wish MS would have developed and released WP8 faster and had better third party support. I had a Lumia 920 and I miss it.
Let MS offer Samsung another opportunity for partnership, if Samsung will have foldable screen and docked devices. At the moment, windows is more prepared in that area that android.
Yes, it will. Ms is not so famous for its marketing abilities.... :(
Most Persaonal Computers today are Windows Computers. Most Computers used by Enterprise, big business are Windows computers. There are over 400 Million Windows 10 computers and more coming everyday so if Samsung makes an Android OS super smart phone it wont be as compatable to the greater number of Computers that are used in the world as a Surface Flagship smart phone with the Redstone 2 & 3 updates and the new Microsoft Emulation software will be. Windows 10 mobile smart phones are becoming smart phone / Pocket PC's compatable with over 400 million Windows 10 computers of various types. Microsoft appears to be transforming it's Windows 10 mobile smart phones into a device that is a small mini tablet / smart phone; a better device to run smart phone apps and desktop PC programs on because it has larger screen
Bill Gates ~ A computer on every desk and in every home running Microsoft Software Satya Nadella ~ A computer in every pocket and in every hand running Microsoft Software
Now Samsung reads this article and is like: hmmm... great idea Jason! So. Thanks Jason.
in an alternate timeline, I'm writing this using my courier 3 using handwriting.
Only if it runs full Windows 10. What seems to be the issue some are forgetting, if its using the mobile OS Android it will be nothing more than a mobile still. The point of Surface Phone is to run full Windows 10. So unless it runs full Windows 10 its just a Android tablet mixed with an android phone. Google doesn't have a full OS. The whole point of moving on is to move away from the limitations of mobile OS.
The new Atom CPU's can do the job of running some Windows PC programs however Microsoft would havr to make a mini 7 or 8 inch smart phone /Tablet hybrid to do this. They may be bigger than a smart phone but Mirosoft should make and sell them becauae enough of them would be purchased by people and businesses to make them proftable to sell
That's what Surface phone is rumoured to be. A fold out phone. Perfect for full Windows 10.
Folks believe it Windows smart phones will become Smartphone Pocket PC Hybrids I knew this long before Microsoft did, That is why I Stuck with Windows smart phones. Yes Android and Apple's iphones have more apps That's cool but I will take a fully powered Pocket PC over them any day of the week. As you know Windows 10 is already on small pocket sized computers today that you can plug into a monitor and have a good PC experience. As electronic circuits get smaller the more powerful these Pocket PC's will become. If Microsoft is smart it will do 4 things 1=Make the Surface smart phone a foldable Mini PC with Windows 10 mobile Redstone 2 & 3 updates plus load it with the Windows on Arms X86 emulation software so it can run some desktop PC programs. 2=sell a mid priced version of this powerful smart phone/Pocket PC so people can buy it 3= Microsoft has to make it own Apps for Surface smart phone hybrid pocket PC's device because developers dont seem to like to write apps for Microsoft devices. 4= Advertise the Hell out of this Product put posters in hell if needed.
Yet another Samsung tablet, but this time probably extremely expensive. I honestly can't be excited about any kind of android based device. That os just sucks, and nothing can fix it.
Shhhh. You are going to upset the trash-can-robot group.
My take is that we already have Windows on ARM, it is called Windows 10 Mobile. Adding some more to One Core, Continuum and having One Shell, will make Windows Mobile the new Windows on everything.
No, it really isn't. W10M has no desktop plumbing, multi-window support, or the old, yet venerable Win32 support.
Let's look at things this way. New tech is brought to consumers all the time, regardless of OEM. I think there will be plenty of room for new devices, just as with smartphones. I think the biggest thing for MS would be to make the device great and, as has been mentioned many times in this discussion, market the HELL out of it. Now, a device similar to what Samsung has shown would have to have to carry the Surface name and represent what a Surface device in this form factor would look, feel, and function like. With ARM now being a factor, I think we can expect great things. I understand that many people would not necessarily buy a Windows Mobile phone, but a device in this form factor that can function as both, might still have the edge, or at least be competitive with anything powered by Android or Chrome OS could offer.
Samsung's marketing to end users is far better than Microsoft. There are more Android users than any one else in the mobile world. They will KILL with this, IF it catches on with end users. Samsung has a lot of other acquisitions. Microsoft will be better with businesses. MS also has a full OS. They will KILL like the Surface with this IF it catches on with business users. MS also has some slick acquistions. Either way, I think the consumer will win. Looking forward to it all! Mr. V
To answer the question, it is better than even money that Samsung could build the mythical "Surface" Phone before MS gets around deciding what a Surface phone is or would be. Samsung has the resources and strength of will it takes to build it. MS IMHO isn't that eager to build phones running Windows 10. They want to be the software developer and outsource the hardware responsibilities to other companies. On a really selfish level, I hope that MS does build the next generation of Windows Phones. I need to breathe in the meantime.
Microsoft is falling behind with windows 10. Postponing the people feature. Which means something else inevitably has to be postponed from the next one. Then there's no apps. I don't care if it can run as a PC and win32 apps. I surveyed 20 people and 0 of them knew about any apps other than Steam/office/adobe. The PC was for office/browser and Steam. These are iphone/ipad/android users. So this is probably why MS needs to go enterprise. No one cares about win32 it seems except old timers and professionals.
I think, with the huge and right marketing, people will be informed
I love their TVs but that's about as far as I'll go. I had 2 Focuses that were messed up when WP7 launced. A Galaxy S5 with issues and between that or all the exploding phones and washing machines, I'll have to say no thanks. I loved the Nokia phones but as soon as MS took over, the quality seemed to decline with the Lumia brand a little bit, to the point that I definitely won't be an early adopter
Samsung could never do it because no other player is positioned like MS. MS is the only one who can make a mobile device that works as a PC because they are the leading PC OS, by far.
If Samsung, Google, or Apple did a similar thing hardware wise, they would just make another mobile device. They would lack the context to make it special.
I have the 950. It IS, as I expected it would be, TOO BIG. I've said from the beginning that 5" device was optimal as a smartphone, and I stand by that. It's one of the many reasons why I still use my 1020 as my daily driver. It's slightly under the 5" size and is EASILY used one-handed. It is impossible to use the 950 (much less the 950XL) one-handed. So, if Samsung is going to pawn off a 7"device on consumers, I'll be first in line to laugh out loud at anyone using such a ridiculously huge device as a smartphone.
Or maybe you just have small hands. I hate to burst your bubble but human beings come in all different shapes and sizes. Saying a 5.1" phone is too big for people is like saying a size 10 shoe is too big for people and that you'll laugh at anyone who wears a size 12. Also a lot of people don't use their phones one-handed. I've seen many women using large Android phones and they love them. Again not every person uses their phone exactly the same way. Your one-size-fits-all thinking is very Apple and a major reason why I rarely use Apple products.
I agree with cool8. I have decaying eyesight. My daily driver is a Nexus 6 with a 5.98 inch screen. I probably will never have a phone that I can use one handed ever again. It's just part of my life now. But just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean that the large form factor won't work for others. I read a large volume of comments on these posts and the amount of small thinking continues to really astound me. I am very glad that designers and developers don't think like several people on these forums. If they did we would more than likely be still talking to each other with signal fires. Expand your mind beyond your world. I'm thrilled that you like/love a 5.1 screen. Just think about the possibilities of other form factors and what can be achieved through them.
"Samsung sells..." not "sales". :)
I'm not one of these MS fanboys who needs or even desires MS to be #1 in hardware manufacturing. I love competition and if MS can move the industry towards more innovation then I fully support them, but I don't need them to be #1 like an Apple fan probably desires. With respect to the OS I do care that they're successful so that they will attract the best software developers to Windows. I view operating systems like Mac OS, Windows Mobile and Chrome as temporary stop gaps which will all eventually go away over the decades to come. Microsoft of these big 3 is the closest to unifying one OS for all devices with full Windows 10 now capable of running on ARM. In that respect the ability to transform a device from phone to tablet to laptop to desktop (aka Continuum) is much more useful from Windows OEMs than from any other platform. You could put Android on a laptop but you still don't have iTunes or Steam or millions of other programs. An iOS laptop is not very appealing as we've seen from iPad Pro. Similarly someone might argue that a Windows 10 phone is not appealing, but that is less a criticism of the nuts and bolts of the OS itself. With a unified OS and app store across every device Microsoft's challenge is very straightforward: Get the best modern apps. They have a unified OS & app store that runs on Intel and ARM, they have an OS that adapts to the display, they will have top of the line flagship hardware. There are three pieces of the puzzle which they need to fill in. 1.) Aggressively pursue the best apps. 2.) Market the hell out of their unified mobile computing platform & devices. 3.) Bury the hatchet with competitors Google, Amazon, Samsung, Apple and start bringing their software to Windows 10. Nadella has made great efforts to reach out and provide an olive branch of support to all these competitors and more. With this new display technology eventually every Windows tablet should be a Windows phone. Every Windows 2-in-1 should become a Windows 3-in-1.
MS must work extra hard
Do people really like them, foldable phones? For me, they're so rare, and ugly that I dont think I would get any some time.
There are no foldable phones on the market right now. So how can you say they are ugly?
My comment is based on those prototypes being shown in this post. Even those rollable OLED smartphones screen are a mess. Innovative, yes. but senseless.
The final phones won't look like these prototypes at all
What if.... Microsoft never releases a new smartphone?
This does look like an exciting game. I will be thinking about it. Hope mouse and key bored support is allowed on pc.
I dont think it matters who is first. If Samsung gets this working and Google manages to get Chromebook/Android integration down smoothly relatively soon, Windows will again be irrelevant. It still comes down to the fact that the mobile part has to be a good mobile device with a thriving app ecosystem. iOS and Android's dominance with the app ecosystems still locks MS out.
I don't think Samsung are able to pull out a viable competitor to the Surface or Continuum and there are several reasons: 1. A Galaxy S 8 Desktop Mode will be a Samsung exclusive feature. This in turn eliminates the desire to create apps for it since they would require reworking that goes outside of typical Android development, which in turn would mean issues with Play Store distribution. The key thing is a 'desktop UI' and it is hard to see Google accept apps with such a thing that only works on specific Samsung devices. Creating a Desktop Mode outside of Google could be a short term affair if such a thing would appear in an upcoming Android version and the investment in the Samsung solution be nullified (it is highly improbable that those two solutions would be compatible). The thing with Continuum is that it is part of the OS, which in turn means that every Windows 10 device offer it, unlike a 'Samsung Desktop Mode'. 2. Google has downplayed the Andromeda rumors. The key enabler for an 'Android Desktop Mode' would be the rumored Andromeda, i.e. the Android/Chrome OS combination but later statements from Google indicate their intent to keep them separate, which in turn affect the probability for such a solution. It is also important to realize that Android has retrenched from the tablet/big screen and 2-in-1 space also because of the removal of the Tablet UI and a lack of strategy about how to manage the platform on bigger screens. Google has concentrated on the ChromeBooks and Chrome OS instead. 3. Android apps aren't optimized for big screens and desktop operation because of 1 and 2. Such optimization can only be a thing if Google change their current plans and merge Android with Chrome OS and introduce a dual scalable UI (i.e. Android/Phone Mode and Chrome Mode). Samsung will introduce a foldable device later this year but it will essentially be an Android device running 'Android 8' - which (also based on Google statements) will be a 'regular' version rather than a merger with a desktop UI mode unlike the earlier rumors stating that it would be Andromeda. The only way Samsung can 'beat Microsoft' in the 'Continuum/Surface space' is by rolling out a Windows 10 for ARM device or using something similar to Nokia Maemo (i.e. a Linux distro with a phone UI but also keep the desktop ditto). If such a system is 'Samsung exclusive' - then it won't work, though. A Galaxy S 8 running Android 7.1 with Desktop Mode and dock won't be a 'Continuum killer' since it remains running a 'phone OS' with 'phone apps'. Motorola Atrix and other earlier attempts (Asus Transformer TF300 and TF700) were also seriously handicapped by those phone apps. Continuum will be a very serious thing when Windows 10 for ARM arrive and the only way of outperforming it is by creating a 'cellular PC Linux' with a scalable UI. Google can compete IF and that is a big IF they actually merge Android and Chrome OS into Andromeda.
Yeah not wrong. but if Microsoft makes it and it starts becoming succesful, how long do you think it will take for Apple or Google to follow especially if customers asks for it? Microsoft, surface or not needs to review deeply the way they treat their own platform. Did you see in the video they were using MS Word (Excel and PowerPoint works too) That's almost all we need when it comes to productivity plus some others that might follow (developpers can optimize their apps). Surface will have the same fate as other windows devices if the software is not great and stable especially at launch.
The only way I see Samsung beating Microsoft, is the same way they're beating Google on their Android platform; by Offering a more compelling hardware with added feature-rich software. They could have Android as their Smartphone UI, but once docked, Windows 10 on ARM takes over while keeping the central file system consistent, just like they patented ( http://www.phonearena.com/news/Samsung-patent-reveals-smartphone-running... ). If they manage to materialize such device, that will be the BEST of both worlds, especially on a sleek device like the Note 7 with active digitizer input. I'd surely buy that over a Surface phone...unless Panos does jaw dropping wonders yet again.
Panos can do nothing...the hardware division can be great but the software needs to follow. I always said samsung devices had nothing special if compared to the other manufacturers but people buy it more. it is the plus they add on the sofware that made the difference before other OEM followed. Microsoft is too focussed on the PC version of Windows 10 which has really improved over last public versions. Windows Phone 7 and 8 was fast, stable and beautiful. Windows 10 is more modern and rich but inconsistent and less awsome than those preceeding. I'm a fan of Windows mobile OS since decades but now i've lost hope, i plan to buy an Android device soon, up to now i had only Windows Phones but too long hanging on...Windows mobile is slowly dying in my heart. Though i've never really liked iOS or Android i will possibly swich in a few months.
What if... Samsung is building the Surface phone running Windows 10 mobile?
Lol
I dont understand your topic because they already have beaten them up . No Microsoft phones but apples.
Microsoft's incompetence has killed Windows 10 mobile and unfortunately it's too late to try to revive it with stunning new hardware. The last opportunity for that would have been the Lumia 950 and we still remember how MS blundered here.
Come on Minority report. I wrote during testing of both Win8 + Win10 about the "Metro UI" - and the strategic development towards the vision elaborated on visually in the Future Vision videos from 2009 and 2010. If we get this now - then bye bye iPhone. This will be the cool thing. Also forget phones - this is about rendering surfaces. And having the automated layout in Universal apps (formerly Metro etc) to do it ... but Universial Apps are so much more considering stuff like UDDI and other middleware components dynamic binding when constructing software. Go Microsoft and remember to buy some stock if this if starting to show off now. In the projection, Microsoft expects this to come around 2020. But they probably need to go cutting edge now rather than trailing behind and realize this vision first. When everybody else was doing phones - Balmer set the path and remained with the strategy. And Microsoft continues to do so? Why?
Because they did not waste time on intermediaries - however loosing the smartphone. But everybody else lost the smartsurface. Go!
BTW When done, bye bye my Android. I consider my Edge 7 and intermediary waiting to Surface again. Lack of apps send me there. But that will change with this cool device. When it comes - not for sure this time. But it is on the roadmap. Everybody else will have to do the MS layout to do it ... ie tiles. :)
for me its use my s7 edge as well as the surface phone, if its good. I cant manage without certain apps, in 2015 i had maybe 4-5 apps missing but it was a managable afair, now in 2017 on windows apps are a biger problem. Not only here maps goneand no microsfts maps is not a suitable replacment but paypal, my fitnesspal,santander bank app, vodaphone app, flick nfl, even microsfts own gestures app are all missing from the windows mobile store, thtas gestures app that worked in windowws 8.1 and never in windows 10, oh we do need google apps now i sed them on android.. It doesnt mater how good the surface phone is because without the apps i use daily it will not be my go to device, even if it could teleport me anywhere i wanted. the app gap is more real now than 2 years ago and its microsfts stratagy of not realeaseing a regular lumia flagship handset yearly and its constant reboots and its own lack of suport that has lead to this biger app issue. Hell people were screaming aboiut how microsft suported its apps on apple and android over windows. Thats pure bs too. i currently am forced to use play, over groove and play sucks but groove wont read the sd card in my s7 edge, hum, isnt the galaxy samsung s7 series the top selling phones? Even my ipad air 2 has not got a actual groove aPP, and no using the ios version is not good, unles you like reading text sideways. Even netflix misses a cast butone on windows devices yet my android and apple devices both have it. Even plaex with cortana voice and i think cortana is the best voice ass out, but it still doesnt work in plex and ive texted it both in a uk and a us setup and nothiung but opening groove happens when i ask for a movie lol. Surface phone may be aswsonme but theres no geting around the fact that the phone was never the issue, hell the os wasnt even the issue, the issue is the same issues its been since windows 7 mobile, microsft is releasing software and features we used way to late. Removing features and reintroducing them way too late(2 years is too late). Though removing and reintroducing should simply not happen. No wireless pay up and runing and lets be honest here, an for ever increasing app gap. This is gomeing from someone that used iphones for 6 years, currently have a android phone and tablet and ipad air 2 but also someone who thinks windows desktop and windows mobile is the best os going, shame they both missing so much that i was litteraly forced onto androdi and apple. Still desktop keeps me in windows casue of gameing but take that away and i dont think id now own a single windows device. Hope only lasts so long and for me 4 years is taking me to that threshold.
You need to look at the 4 main players and their abilities in the global market: 1. Apple: Remember them? Global brand. Great hardware, so-so software. Haven't shown any kind of innovation since Steve passed away. 2: Google: Hasn't done much in 5 years. No real hardware to speak of. Android and Chrome are pretty poor software both reaching the end of their product lifecycles. Great brand but no global distribution. 3: Samsung: One of the world's best brands but one more product disaster away from irrelevance. Excellent hardware. CAn't do sooftware to save themselves. 4: Microsoft: Good but not perfect brand. Windows 10 is still at the START of its product lifecycle and has at least another half decade to run. Proved with Surface they can do hardware. Picked up some global distribution when they bought Nokia. HoloLens is the only new product from any of the BIG 4 that has anything like a future. It should be fun. Personally I'm putting my money on Microsoft with Google able to keep up - if they can finish and commercialise Magic Leap. Google's record in bringing products to market (other than Search and AD stuff) is not good. Apple look like a basket case. Samsung, without software is totally at the mercy of Google who want to compete against them. Should be interesting.
the only thing id agree with hee is samsung cant do software, mostly. touch wiz is ok but when it stops you using google now as it works on full google android devices and when you have 2 of every piece of software 1 samsung and 1 google and all you want is google you know your in trouble. Love my s7 edge but samsuns restrictions on googles working is enough for me to already know my next phone wont be a s8 edge, unfortunatly, unless they made it all android google or windows.

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