What do early adopters think about the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book?

On October 26, 2015, the new Surface Book and Surface Pro 4 went on sale, and reviews across the internet began to pop up with hype and positive acceptance. Also, the way Microsoft advertised these new devices helped to make many people pre-order them right away, and they have become the must-have devices to run Windows 10.

While we have been talking about these new portable computing devices and how great they are as advertised, after a few days since they have been available on the market, many new customers are now part of the Surface experience -- some are newcomers, and others have upgraded from their previous version.

No doubt about it, these are great devices. On the left side, you have the Surface Pro 4, which is the fourth iteration of perhaps the most popular tablet to run Windows that can also replace your laptop. The new tablet features a slightly 12.3-inch PixelSense display with a thinner and lighter body that looks almost identical to the Surface Pro 3 design.

On the right side, you have the Surface Book, which is the first laptop built by Microsoft, which is being advertised as the "ultimate laptop." It features a 13.5-inch PixelSense display, the now unmistakable "dynamic fulcrum hinge" design with the "muscle wire lock" to release the display from the dock, and a discrete graphics processor that makes the laptop deliver performance on editing tasks and gaming.

It's been a few interesting days since both devices went on sale, as the reaction from customers has been largely very positive, but other customers came across some significant issues that made them doubt about their purchase.

We have decided to dig around and see how the new Surface Book and Surface Pro 4 are treating customers. While we always hear from many different channels what's going on in the world of technology, we focus our research on our forums, Microsoft Answers forums, and on Reddit to see the reactions and concerns from customers.

Concerns about the Surface Pro 4

  • Excessive battery drain browsing the web using Microsoft Edge: Some users are reporting that a full charge will only allow up to 2 hours of web browsing.
  • Microsoft Edge color rendering issue: Many customers are reporting a tone pink color or different colors while scrolling a web page.
  • Random fan problems: Fan kicks in often even though there isn't much going on the Task Manager.
  • Graphics driver: Display driver crashes suddenly during normal use or when using Microsoft Edge.
  • Low battery life: Many customers are also reporting 4-5 hours of battery life out the claimed 9 hours.
  • Brightness and black screen: There have been concerns about sudden loss of brightness and completely dark screen when scrolling.
  • Type Cover: When in tablet mode and attaching the Type Cover will make the trackpad stop working.
  • Windows Hello won't work: It works the first time when you wake the device, but after resuming the second time Windows Hello won't work.
  • Slow booting: Sometimes when booting up Surface Pro 4 will just get stuck in the Surface logo. Also booting up could take up to 5 minutes. Users have tried resetting the device to factory defaults, but after a while the problem keeps coming back.

Sources

Concerns about the Surface Book

  • Clipboard: Display detach mechanism not detaching or detach not being recognized when pressing the button, and it will result in an error that says "Latch did not release."
  • Setup problems: After the initial setup the Surface Book will freeze up every few minutes to the point that users need to hard reset the device to factory defaults.
  • Random blue screen of death: A number of users have experienced blue screen of death while using Microsoft Edge, detaching the screen from the base, and other reasons.
  • Trackpad issues: While the trackpad on Surface Book is great when it works, some users are experiencing slow response when using the mouse or the pointing simply disappearing. (see our how-to to temporary fix this issue)
  • Keyboard issue: In some cases, various keys will simply fail and reset won't fix the problem.

Sources

Complaints about the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book

  • Windows Hello causing fast battery drain and heat during sleep: It has been discovered that Windows Hello may not be working correctly blocking the device from going to sleep completely causing battery drain and produce more heat. (If this is an issue affecting your device, you can follow this guide to temporarily disable Windows Hello in your Surface Book or Surface Pro 4)
  • Screen flickering: Many users have noted of screen flickering on their Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book, and in many cases this would happen when Hyper-V is enabled.
  • Slow Wi-Fi connectivity: It appears that it a software problem that is causing slow wireless connectivity. This is a known issue and Microsoft is working on permanent fix. (In the meantime, you can use this workaround to fix the Wi-Fi issue)
  • Popping sound from speakers: Some users are also experiencing a "fairly loud pop" when using the device.
  • Surface Pen: The pen stops working frequently, pen driver won't reinstall, or it will not pair with the device.

Sources

Note: Please remember that even though, I have grouped the different issues per device, because the Surface Book and Surface Pro 4 have similar hardware there are chances that you may experience the same problems found in Surface Pro 4 on your Surface Book and vice versa.

It's worth saying that while these problems exist, they are not affecting everyone. Furthermore, on November 2nd, Microsoft has issued a firmware update for the Surface Book and Surface Pro 4 that addresses some of the key issues, such as:

  • HD Graphics 520 driver update (v20.19.15.4308) addresses some display issues, including some scenarios that result in screen flickering.
  • Display audio driver update (v8.20.0.659) supports compatibility with the updated graphics driver.
  • Surface Embedded Controller Firmware update (v88.855.257.0) improves system stability.
  • Surface Pen Settings driver (v10.0.302.0) adds support for future functionality on Windows 10.

And the company is also improving the trackpad experience with the Surface System Aggregator Firmware update (v88.853.258.0). However, the firmware update is just rolling out now, as such we'll have to wait a few days until we can see if the issues are clearly resolved.

If you own a new Surface, you can read-up more details on all the changes for Surface Book (opens in new tab) and Surface Pro 4 (opens in new tab) on the Surface Update history support pages.

Reactions from users

Although, there are a few things that aren't working correctly, the devices are still well received from customers.

Below you can read a number of statements from users about the new devices:

"Well, my wife and I got to the Microsoft store this afternoon to look at the SP4. Love the new keyboard and the way the pen sticks to the side and the new screen and, well everything. We ended up pre-ordering 2 of them, I7/16Gb/256." -- Talldog (Windows Central forums)"The keyboard is SUPERB. As an SP3 user since the beginning, the keyboard just feels more like a laptop keyboard. The tablet still feels the Same weight tho." -- Onysi (Windows Central forums)"For me, the SP3 keyboard has always been typos-waiting-to-happen. It was very much a compromise. But the new keyboard is completely different. Very close to a quality laptop keyboard."The pen is also amazing. I have always spoke highly of the SP3 pen, but they managed to make it miles better by transforming the feel of the pen to more of a real writing-on-paper experience. Fantastic job by MS." -- Ytrewq (Windows Central forums)"Build quality is excellent," " The pen magnet on the side of the clipboard is really well done.", "This display is amazing.", "Great touchpad, very solid." "The fulcrum hinge is great." -- Surfacethrow (Reddit)"The Surface book is a lot smaller than I imagined. The gap is pretty tiny. I love how it looks." "Keyboard feels great to use. Touchpad is equally awesome." " Windows Hello is pretty damn cool. Seems to recognize me almost instantly." -- JonSArt (Reddit)"I pre-ordered an i7/256/dGPU. […] I absolutely have zero regrets and love this device. I can say that I did NOT feel this way when I received my SP3. Damn, I love this device. Gaming is awesome too. Freakin awesome. I got way higher unity benchmarks than that guy posted the other day too." -- Dazzlepuzzle (Reddit)"The screen does wobble when it's on my lap, and I'm typing. It's very slight buts it's there." -- Art9681 (Reddit)"Windows Hello is a delight to use." "The controversial screen bounce/wobbly when touching hasn't been anywhere even close to a deal breaker for me." "The weight and thinness of the clipboard... wow. Just excellent." "I never thought the day would come when I'd be proud to have a computer with a big Microsoft logo on the back of it." -- Jodacola (Reddit)

Protection plan?

Microsoft has been doing Surface tablets for a few years, and the company has learned a lot from each iteration, but as you can see today, nothing is always perfect. Also, even though the Surface Book is based on the Surface Pro 4, the tablet remains a version 1.0 device. As such, whenever possible, you might be better off buying the device you like with a protection plan.

The Microsoft Complete Accident Protection for Surface Pro (opens in new tab) costs $149, and the Microsoft Complete Accident Protection for Surface Book (opens in new tab) costs $249, in both cases you get two years protection from accidental damages, including drops and spills, and you also get two years coverage from hardware defects or malfunctions.

Remember that you have 45 days to purchase a protection plan since the day you bought the device, if you have already bought one.

Of course, as any new device you purchase, both Surface devices come with one-year warranty from the manufacturer.

Wrapping things up

While customers shouldn't have to go through this kind of problems out of the box when they're are paying a premium, what we are seeing today seem to be more firmware and software-related problems, something that Microsoft should be able to fix by releasing new updates. Also, it doesn't yet appear that Microsoft will have to recall devices because of defective hardware. Even though, many people have reported that after spending hours with the support they have been issued a replacement, and many other customers had to get replacements more than once in a very short period of time.

Microsoft seems to be proactively working to solve all the big problems. Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book began to ship across the United States and Canada on October 26th, and on October 27th, the software maker released its first wave of firmware updates for both devices, which fixed a lot of problems. Then, only six days after, on November 2nd, the company rolled out a new firmware update fixing some key issues on Surface Book and Surface Pro 4.

Finally, as expected, as I was digging through long comments threads on different forums around the web, I will always come across the same main issues. The stories and details obviously were different, but the display flickering and screen color rendering problem, battery life issues, and Microsoft Edge performance problems were always the main concerns, which suggests that even though these problems aren't affecting everyone equally, they are significant isues Microsoft has to address very soon to avoid a big number of returns.

Do you own one of the new Surface devices? Are you having any issues? Did the November firmware update fixed some of the issues for you? Let us your experience in the comments below.

More resources

Mauro Huculak is technical writer for WindowsCentral.com. His primary focus is to write comprehensive how-tos to help users get the most out of Windows 10 and its many related technologies. He has an IT background with professional certifications from Microsoft, Cisco, and CompTIA, and he's a recognized member of the Microsoft MVP community.

175 Comments
  • Most of these issues i get on my surface pro3 since installing windows 10, seriously thinking of reverting back to 8.1 on most of my machines.
    Very disapointed with windows 10
  • Agreed. Windows 8.1 performed better and was much more stable on my SP3, nothing but issues on Windows 10.
  • Windows 10 works great on my SP3 and on a crappy Toshiba laptop that I have.
  • I have none of these reported issues either on my SP3
  • yep same here my SP3 runs great win Win10.
  • No problems?  Are you guys actually turning on your SP3s after installing 10? If so count yourselves as lucky.
  • or....count yourself as unlucky?  
  • No problems here too with w10 and sp3 after I think 3-4 firmware updates.
  • No problem at all. My SP3 came with W 10 already preinstalled (late buy). The thing didn't need 1 reset so far. So cool, so fast... Loving it!
  • I've been using 10 on a SP2. Initially I had issues with battery drain and the device not sleeping when the cover was closed. That has since been fixed. No major issues now. I do miss a few of the touch gestures that were availabe in 8.1, but have not had too much trouble adjusting to win 10 ui. I use it in tablet mode and it works fine.
  • Same here.  My SP3 with W10 is like its on steroid. Wife and our older daughter use it with their profile and its a Gem.... FYI, Nothing will make me leave W10, It has grown on me so much, I simply can not think of leaving it for win8.1 as good and stable it is.
  • My mom has had nothing but problems on her Samsung laptop. She called me yesterday yelling at me that she hates Windows 10 because she has to reboot the machine 10 times a day because it hangs and everything freezes. Never had an issue with 8.1. She is the average, non-Tech consumer, and these bad impressions are what Microsoft has to fix and overcome. Not doing a good job so far, hence Windows 10 installs have slowed rapidly.
  • Well most of the issues are the 3rd party drivers which isn't really Microsoft's issue but there is guilt by association. 
  • In her case I think it's mostly Edge. But I agree. Unfortunately, the average user doesn't know about drivers and such. They blame it on Microsoft and the OS.
  • 8.1rt is pretty buggy too! at least in recent weeks its had lots of crashes and games seem to jerk and drop frames!
  • I have upgraded to Windows 10 on Dell XPS and there is no problem whatsoever. It's high time that people understand that making good hardware is a different game all together. Here experience comes into play. Hence Dell laptops are better than surface and I will prefer Dell XPS 15 over surface book, atleast for now!
  • Just ordered the new XPS 15. That thing is a beast
  • Well Dell only dsigns the hardware they don't make any of it. The ODM's in taiwan take the design and the laptop with Intel, Seagate, ATI and realtec type components and stamp Dell's name on it.
  • I've had no issue with the actual OS itself on my sp3, but Edge has a lot of work that needs doing to it. E.g. When browsing my subscriptions on YouTube, I will generally just open each video in a new tab and pause the video, rinse and repeat till all have been opened. Usually resulting in about 15-20 tabs being open. This will send the sp3 into hardcore overdrive mode making the fan go mental draining the battery. So its safe to assume that Edge cannot handle a lot of tabs being opened at the same time rendering it useless for me. I'm sure this is different for others, but I can only comment on my experience with the browser.
  • Wow... 20 open paused YouTube videos is enough to bring any system to it's knees. I would seriously consider altering the very strange way that you watch!
  • Well Edge is designed for new websites (HTML5) and IE for legacy. They have an option to open a webiste it IE instead inside of Edge. Edge won't be getting the ability to use extensions until 2016 :(    
  • I reverted back to 8.1 yesterday on my SP3. It was completely unusable. Low battery life. High memory issues causing it to be unresponsive. Fans on full blast. W10 is definitely a beta as usual. 
  • You may wanna consider installing the latest insider preview build. After installing it on my pro 4 I don't have any of the issues anymore, whereas before I would get the audio popping, and display driver crashes all the time on the current public build.
  • Eh?  I have the i3 model... Zero issues. Odd?
  • Surface Pro 3 and Surface Pro 4 appear to be the same Random fan problems: Fan kicks in often even though there isn't much going on the Task Manager. Low battery life: Many customers are also reporting 4-5 hours of battery life out the claimed 9 hours.
  • It's windows defender. I stopped it on my laptop and now the fan doesn't kick a often.
  • Threshold 2 should fix most of these, some drivers here since drivers there and all fixed
  • "The next update should fix all previous issues" how many times have I heard that before
  • Everytime you update your iPhone?
  • The battle cry of the MDDF! :)
  • Because that's software for you. There are always problems and the company will update their software to fix issues.
  • Saying I learned in computer school "Software is never finished. It's just released."  
  • yup. i am having major reboot issues ever since i installed Windows 10. takes 3 to 5 minutes sometimes to boot to login screen. i reverted to windows 8.1 in between and dint have this problem at all. now am back on Windows 10 and the problem has come back. Sometimes the screen would go blank and flicker randomly. never happened with 8.1. had to disable the error reporting to stop the flickering issue. go figure. Windows 10 is not as polished as windows 8.1 or 8. it is good but still needs plenty of polishing
  • I have this issue with my VAIO Flip 15 as well after upgrading to Windows 10. And to the complaints in the comments and in the article. Edge is a CPU hungry App that NEVER suspends no matter if its minimized. It's constantly eating CPU cycles
  • The official VAIO support says: Do not upgrade to Windows 10! There must be reasons....
  • I upgrades to win10 the sooneat that i could, and ive no major problems except for the wifi where sometimes i could not connect immediately. Thats all, soooo loving win10.
  • Of course there are reasons... Sony doesn't want to provide updated drivers or support for people who are reinstalling their OS.
  • Have you tried a clean Windows 10 install from USB/DVD? I have a Surface Pro (Gen 1) and created the USB install media to do a clean install on the surface and have not had any issues.
  • It's a brand new device!
  • I think the original comment (by Ravi Anand) and the response was regarding Win10 on a machine that had Win8.1. I installed Win10 on my home desktop (my own build) and Win10 is much, much better than Win7 (and Win 8.1) in terms of performance and stability. Much, Much! I am on the Fast Ring Insider Preview. They just need to convert all those legacy Control Panel apps.  
  • I had everything working except for older games (kept crashing or give a black screen of death) ... So I did a clean install and after that old games worked with no isseus but now the backlight of my keyboard doesn't work anymore which used to Be fine after the upgrade.
    So a clean install doesnt fix everything all the time ;-) for me it fixed one big problem but give me back a little annoyance which I cant fix (I have tried it)
  • Btw my pc is a: 17inch ASUS laptop from 2014 Intel i7 4710HQ 2.5ghz
    8gb RAM
    NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 850M
    256gb ssd
    1tb hd Type nr: N751JK - T7129H
  • Why on earth would someone expect Windows 10 to be as polished and bug free as Windows 8.1?? It's only been out a few months versus years. It literally couldn't happen, unless Microsoft screwed up Windows 8 and never bothered to fix it.
  • Let me guess there mad about onedrive lol
  • Yup. Definitely onedrive. They will all be returning their devices after they hear about onedrive.
  • I don't own a Surface but nevertheless am mad about OneDrive. From 30G to 5G... Feels like Back to the future, only this is Back to the past :(
  • the firmware update from yesterday fixed the discoloration issue on my SP4 but the GPU still hangs and crashes. The good news is most of these issues are software/driver related and Microsoft seems to be moving quickly to resolve them (as the update yesterday would suggest at least)
  • Wow! I know they have some issues but I didn't even expect this many. It also shows how many Microsoft Edge related problems here, which makes Edge really premature browser for public use. It seems that this could be a partial result from lay-offs of several people from the QA department. The quality of their software seems quite erratic these days, quite ironic for the name Microsoft which is now better at making high-quality hardware than high-quality software. Good thing though so far there isn't any defective hardware reported (maybe it's not mentioned here and missed) which makes these issues temporary since they can push patches to fix these. They're really quite fast also on trying to fixing it. Still they have to learn this and makes the next release won't deal with the same situation as we have now. There is no assurance for faultless release but it still need to make those issues virtually non-existent next time.
  • Most of these issues appear to be software or firmware related. It is surprising that Microsoft, being the king of software with lots of expert engineers let these problems un-addressed before release of the devices!
  • King of software?
    --MacOS is better than W10 where it really counts - system stability.
    --iOS IS better than WP8.1...and probably better than W10M
    --Dropbox IS better than OneDrive.
    --Everything is better than Skype in the mobile space
    Office is the one shining light.
    Literally the only thing that keeps me hoping for MS to do well is that in the lower price bands, it's either Android or Windows Phone. & Windows Phone is far more stylish and coherent.
    Come on MS. Stop rushing everything. Make a plan....stick to it - and get some quality assurance workers instead of palming everything off to Windows Insiders!
  • MacOS? Hahahahahhhahahhahaha
    Ios? Hahahahahahahhaahhahahaha
  • MacOS just works...
    Windows will work as promised with the next update (or the one after...or the one after that!).
  • Go signature when buying a PC. Boom! stability.
  • Signature? Haha!
    I bought a 'signature' Acer Switch 11 from the UK MS Store.
    It was not possible to do a standard upgrade to Windows 10...so myself and others spent a fair while troubleshooting the issue.
    Turns out the Acer partition structure on the Switch 11 was simply unable to be upgraded to Windows 10. It required a clean USB install of 8.1 (wiping away all prior partitions in the process). This was made all the more troublesome because the keyboard dock and touchscreen barely worked under a fresh install...and neither did the WiFi.
    Acer also didn't offer all the drivers required on their website - so we had to go hunting for alternatives.
    For any normal consumer, that Acer Switch 11 'Signature Edition' was an absolute lemon!
  • Everything you just listed was Acer. How is Windows 10 to blame for that?
  • You shouldn't have said MacOS "just works".  You should have said MacOS "barely works".  For a so-called OS, it doesn't actually do much.  Then again, if Apple keep improving it at the current rate, it'll only take five or six years before MacOS catches up with Windows XP.
  • What doesn't OS X do?
  • @Steve78UK: What doesn't OS X do? Come pre-installed on a multitude of hardware designed to meet my needs as opposed to forcing my needs to meet the hardware...   Though that aside, honestly, OSX suffers the same issues W10M does. Simply the app gap. Maybe the apps you want are available, but its not that way for everybody.
  • Hahahaha? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.
  • MacOS is a simple OS, it doesn't have to work with thousands upon thousands of accessories and devices via plug and play. Everything better than skype, where is Everything on my Xbox one, only skype... IOS being better than wp is subjective. Dropbox being better than OneDrive is also subjective.
  • Windows 7 has to work with the same myriad of devices as Windows 10..
    It does so without the glitches and frustrations of Windows 10.
    Let's face it - Microsoft has been rushing products to market all year. Surface Book/Surface 4 have issues that should have been fully resolved before it was even released. Windows 10 continues to have growing pains months after its release.
    Microsoft have flipflopped disastrously over OneDrive storage limits....and the Xbox One continues to fight an uphill battle of Microsoft's own creation.
    Let's not even talk about the TERRIBLE lack of commitment MS has shown to Windows Phone, or the intrusive way that they are trying to get all and sundry to upgrade to Windows 10 via their adware.
    These are not good attributes for a company that needs people to be able to trust it.
    (I say this as the owner of an Asus T100, Lumia 820/1020 and an Xbox 360!)
  • every single device has software issues. every single one of them. althought i have not run into any problems with my sp4
  • You know NOTHING of software development. Please don't speak again. Ever.
    I'm serious.
  • obviously you dont know what software is or what issues are. every single device has had software issues
  • I would love for you to give us one example of a device that had 0 issues upon launch? Even whimpy little iPhones with their stripped down OS and abilities have TONS of issues upon launch. EVERY company RUSHES devices out so they can reach a target group or date. They count on people updating their devices. If people never updated their devices, every OEM would be out of business because most bugs are so big that no one would buy them unless they are fixed in a near future event. So they work on hardware and then software since software can be fixed, but hardware cannot via an OTA update :P
  • How is iOS better than WP8.1? The user interface is so dull, as if it's made for old people and young children who get too worked up when there's anything going on.
  • Actionable notifications, an app store that actually has quality apps, an incredibly fast camera, FULL system backups via iTunes...but mainly, the apps!
  • IOS ecosystem is better than WP... app store and apps are not part of the OS... when u consider the stability, fluidness, and features of the OS, WP can be argued as better than iOS. I can say: Live Tiles based UI is much much better than that in iOS home screen UI Cortna is better than Siri? (arguable) Local search (quick and easy to find stuff around) I have seen my folks on iOS taking time to find stuff around, which I was able to do real quick (either they do not know, or its not as easy as compared to that in WP) Beter image quality (camera is fast on iOS, but I prefer better IQ)  
    So, you see we can easily make a list of things which are better in WP than iOS... you may like a super fast camera, I like a camera which takes better IQ photos, and possibly get good prints from the photos (because of high Mp... 20Mp)   FYI: I checked out Lumia 950XL, its camera is very fast... so soon that fastness-gap between cameras will also be reduced.  
  • Windows 10 has actionable notifications as well.
  • Questionable actions, that is :P
  • Thanks for the observation.  Since iOS is better and more stable, I must be imagining all the problems I'm finding with my iPhone and iPad which continue even with the frequent iOS 9 updates.  I have a Dropbox account, but all my devices just seem to work so well with OneDrive that I never use it.  Oh, and as for MacOS ... well maybe it's just habit, but I can usually resolve anything with Windows in just a couple of minutes, but some of the MacOS troubleshooting takes hours, and defies any logic in finding the root cause.  As someone who actually works in both worlds, I'm sure a whole lot more comfortable with my Win 10 installs  / devices.  As for Royalty, well I don't really know any ...  
  • iOS 9.1 bricked my iPhone 4S. I was hoping it would hang on till I could replace it with a windows 10 mobile. Guess not.
  • Irrecoverably bricked your phone?! That sounds highly unlikely...
    If you mean it slowed the phone down to a point where it felt unusable - well, that really isn't surprising. The 4S is pretty damn old now.
  • Ok, getting bricked was a bit of an exaggeration. But it got really sluggish and the antenna stopped being able to pick up signals so it may as well have been bricked. What good is a phone if I can't get calls or text messages?
  • so "just works" only applies as long as you keep purchasing their newest wave of hardware...
  • I'm not sure to what you are refering.  With Win 10, and iOS, I've installed the latest versions on some pretty old devices, and in both cases they work.  So I don't see a need to upgrade hardware unless you are seeing new features not previously available.  
  • @Tim Stone, It was in response to spinzeroWL's comment. He's stated that Apple products "just work" but then that seems to contradict his statement about the 4S being slowed to the point of being unusable. I guess I should specify who I'm replying to since it doesn't seem to matter which "reply" i click...
  • OK ... thanks for the clarification.  I have an iPhone 6+, and older iPad, and a really old iPod.  My wife has the 6, same model iPad, and an iMac.  Like any device, I can guarantee that OSx and iOS have plenty of issues.  I use them simply because some specific tasks I need to do have the best apps on them.  I also have a full stable of Windows products from phone, tablet, notebook, desktop(s) ... plus all the ones I support.  In general, they all work very well with Windows 10, but there are quirky things still to be resolved.   In the early days of PCs we used dual floppy drives, a slow CPU, a bit of memory, and did what we considered to be amazing stuff.  Having the luxury of seeing the transformation over the past 35 years, I'm pretty thrilled with the options we have.  Of course, I can't say that out loud or Cortana will probably get on my case !  Siri, however, remains mute on the subject !  ( come on and smile a bit .... )
  • my desktop and my sp3 are super stable. havent had any issues since i first installed when windows 10 came out. just got my sp4 but havent opened it yet. iOS better than win10 mobile? thats preference. i like onedrive better than dropbox. skype is awesome. i use it more frequently than facetime.
  • You liar! :) Who could possibly get the sp4 and not open it?
  • yeah you're right. i have opened it but i havent turned it on. i closed it back up because i dont have a type cover for it. i want to bright blue one but its been sold out ever since launch
  • But, no self respecting ios user updates as soon as it comes out. IOS 9 had many issues that had to be addressed in further updates. No different than iOS 8, 7...
  • I had both and the crash percentage is about the same
  • Shouldnt MacOS be OS X? Anyways, OS X is not better than W10 in stability. Just preceived stability (which W10 runs on thousands of configurations vs a few higher priced configurations) and also preceived malware protection. W10 has it beat in almost every other area as well. iOS is also not better than WP8.1 (though maybe better than the beta WP10 because bugs). It just has apps but the os isnt better. Though it is more optimized than Android for sure. But the UI for WP is amazing. And the hardware that runs iOS is always "top spec'd". Dropbox may be better. But funny, its much more expensive as well ;). Who complains about the 2 gb dropbox limit for free use and the expensive price for storage? $7 for OneDrive 1TB and Office or $10 for dropbox... Hmm... And Skype has the best video and audio compression around. Its why most major networks and online productions use it over anything else. Microsoft makes money on software and services. Google makes money on Ads. Apple makes money on hardware.
  • Ads that ppl hate on google services. That's y adblock is widely used by chrome users.
  • "MacOS is better than W10"   Yep, thats why W10 had more installs in one week. Burn
  • The Apple slogan "Just Works" hasn't been true for some time now. I know because I use their s*** daily but I'm terrified of Windows even more when I hear those stories and think about my experience with WinXP/Vista/7.
  • I disagree
  • bahahahahahaha. some of these comments are real comedy. I think about responding but then what for? lol.
  • Yeah well Apple do not have to provide driver to different computer makers does it ? Now, how can you compare stability between Apple machines (because in fine, MacOS is only stable and available on Apple machine) with an OS that is made to be compatible with all computers, provided that the firm deign provide the proper drivers ? That doesn't make any sense and you know it. 
  • MacOS El Capitan is slighly inferior to Windows 95, I ve a mac as a build server, and it s simply a terrible Os. No decent file browser, kitsch animations, Safari is like 1998's ie 3.0...Try to believe.
  • SP4/I5. Hard reset today! Reluctantly had too because of excessive CPU usage and fan constantly running. Also dealt with screen flicker, display driver crash. SP3 was less buggy from the start but had more issues once windows 10 was installed. All that being said I love the form factor!
  • Surface book issues encountered: - Touch screen was unresponsive one time requiring reboot - Faint "pop" sound occasionally, not often - Rare message about video driver stopping - Battery totally drained over night one time Haven't noticed any problems since the latest firmware update, but haven't had extensive time on it since then either.
  • So why not, get some time on it before you report, you "one time" problems.
  • So why not, get some realize.
    I had four days of use and got just those four relatively infrequent issues.
    The new patch has only been out a day. So it's not extensive time yet. Thanks.
  • Zero problems with I7 256 GB Surface Book so far! Haven't done too much with it yet, though. Installed a bunch of applications, web browsing, email, etc. Absolutely love Hello, by the way.
  • As with many new hardware/software it is expected to have some issues. If you are an early adapter it is just the way it is. When I did see the surface book @ the Oct 6th event I knew I wanted it knowing things could be a little funky in the beginning. Just the way it is. I really really really like the SB and in a few weeks most issues are gone.
  • I hope your right. It sad to see so many issues, It's also sad to see the hardware being dragged down by the drivers/software. You would think would have tripped over alot of this before the release. Hopefully they get this all ironed out soon. I'd hate to see people give up on Microsoft products because of these issues. 
  • Microsoft are pushing customers away regardless of these issues.
    -Still no firm release date for the 950
    -Disastrous treatment of users of their OneDrive service.
    -Bullying people into upgrading to Windows 10
    -Constant failure to address glaring issues with Windows 10 (Edge STILL doesn't have full screen support, or extensions. Even the iphone has extensions!!).
    Microsoft need to wake up and see the damage they are doing to their brand.
  • Early adapter, giggle.
  • So despite a year of Insider previews and world wide Beta Testing of W10, we are still getting lots of bugs and crashes four months after RTM. Perhaps better go back to proper QA based audit of software, as Windows 7 was always much more reliable, even before RTM.
    The W10 guinea pig testing approach has flunked Microsoft's reputation for reliable software
  • They'll all get fixed.
  • Been working on my i7 265GB Book all last week. I saw the display driver error once on day 2, but never since. I'm running Office 2016 64bit and visual studio 2015 Community on it. No issues whatsoever. Can't comment on battery drain though, since I shut the device down every night and only work a few hours a day away from my desk in meetings.
    Overall so far, solid performance.
  • The sp3 had many problems but after a month, updates fixed it.
  • I recall seeing many forum posts and articles about unresolved wi-fi issues for months and months.
  • Yeah, the WiFi issue took freaking ages to fix. It was a minor gripe though.
  • Received my Surface Pro 4 last week. Except that I have not seriously test the battery life, I have not experienced the listed problems.
  • I've had some of these issues in one form or another.
  • People who purchased these are of course going to praise them -- to do otherwise would be admitting they made a poor purchasing decision.  Something to fill a tech blog page on a slow news day I guess... ;-)
  • "People who purchased these are of course going to praise them -- to do otherwise would be admitting they made a poor purchasing decision" That's a bit of a cynical response.  I don't think calling something that you bought flawed is an admission of a poor purchasing decision.  The surface pro 4 following the surface pro 3 would be an expected purchase decision.  What you described would be somewhat of a fanboy attitude, and not everyone a fanboys.  With that being said, I'd have to disagree with you POV.
  • You're certainly entitled to your >>opinion<< -- thanks for stopping by to share it  
  • Yeah. Just like yours.
  • I know, right?
  • No way! I can totally admit the Blackberry Playbooks I bought were horrid, the 9900 as well. The iPhone 3G was terrible. The Galaxy note 4 I had was also horrid. I have NO problem admiting a product I bought was bad because it had issues. I am VERY MUCH looking forward to getting my Surface Pro 4 in a few weeks (estimated shipment Nov 19th in Spain), and retire my SP2. My Sp2 had issues and still does on Windows 10, but I can live with all of them. In exchange, I get a VERY solid full blown PC that can do everything my desktop can except for play my intense games. So... Really, I don't think this is the case as I know there are tons of people out there like me. The Surface line is doing very very well for itself. So, I highly doubt it's a "poor purchasing decision" just because you say so. 
  • Demonstrating my point exactly -- thanks!  
  • ::confused:: You sir are very strange, indeed. Oh well. 
  • I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that you are often "::confused::"  
  • Lol, actually, no. You're def. a sad person. That's for sure. Oh well, good luck! 
  • And I'm pretty sure you've just demonstrated and confirmed what most people were thinking about you as well.
  • Microsoft should offer an emi plan for phone,surface boom and pro4 like how Apple is doing with iPhone
  • I have been using windows 10 on my pentium 4 but haven't got any issues. Boot up time seems to go decreasing the more i use pc. Even i have no graphics card attached and some games like Asaphalt 8 plays good.
  • I sold my SP3 / i5  256 to a person who is now very happy with it.  I appreciated all it could do, but the 12" monitor was just too small for some of the work I perform daily.  My replacement was an i5 / 256 / dGpu Surface Book.  The 13.5" monitor was just enough larger to make it useable, yet it is very portable.  I did buy the 3 year business complete plan, so I know it will be fully covered through then. Fresh out of the box I had a problem. It did not do the normal Windows first time install, and instead it asked for my guest user login. A long time waiting on the phone brought no tech, so finally I just held down the power button until it rebooted. Then I was greeted with the normal first time install and it progressed correctly. I've seen some strange lockup issues. For example, I closed the lid with it on ( which idled my SP 3 ), and when I opened it up, the Lock screen was centered in the display at about 70% size on top of the login, and it was locked up. I've also seen other issues not unlike some Win 10 problems experienced with the Insider previews. I have not fully tested it yet, but it does seem to have some issues to be resolved. So why keep it ? First, once all the issues are resolved, it is the perfect solution for my specific needs. I've looked at everything else out there, without regard to price, and for what I want to do, this is the right computer. As an Insider I have seen the progress made with Windows 10 so I know any issues reported here will be resolved. To me it's not about brand or marketing. It's strictly about being the balanced solution for the things I do. That view would obviously be different for others. Finally, although this is a 1.0 by some people's definition, to me its actually 4th generation Surface. It's just a variant, and it builds upon all the work leading up to it in previous years. So far, the staff at my local Microsoft Store have been outstanding with their support ever since they opened several years ago. I'm confident that will continue and I'll be totally satisfied with the Book.
  • Just goes to show that "perfect" is relative. How is the SP4 "perfect" if you are just living with issues? The SP3 was not because it was 1.5 inches smaller diagonally? lol
  • He bought the surface book. Not the pro 3.
  • Size matters and portability matters to a lot of people. I for one would love a 17" Surface Book because I have no problem lugging around a beast all day, but for most people that would ruin the portability and they would hate it for being too heavy. 1-2" in a screen can make a big difference.
  • I'd be happy to answer. The Surface book is my "grab and go". If I'm interrupted while working at my desktop, the device needs to be my out of office solution with access to all my work. That includes programming tools and files ( ie. Visual Studio, Ultra Edit, and others ). The SP3 was a great solution, except that the 12" screen was just too small when displaying some of my programs ( like Ultra Edit which I use a lot ). Some things could be adjusted, but its way of handling the icons of toolbars just made it too difficult for my eyes to see clearly, even with glasses. This is a very individual thing. I put some of these programs onto a USB drive and went to my local Microsoft Store and tried them out on the Book and found the display was enough larger, and the ratio better, so the display is workable. Also, the solid keyboard is more stable when mobile ( ie. on a plane or train ) so that allows me to write more easily. I also like the stylus. For many of my clients, there is a practical every day use for a Surface 3 with stylus in their daily routine. This allows me to develop specific solutions for them and have the stylus to test their applicability ( filling in fields on forms they need to complete, standing outside with their clients, creating a list of work to be performed ). I'm impressed with other computers, but this one works best for the sum of tasks I need to perform. I'm not putting up with anything. The things that may still need to be resolved are minor, and they will go away. It would be different if I had obstacles to working, but I don't. I hope this clarifies it. If not, just consider it the ramblings of an old geezer, but after nearly 7 decades on this planet, I'm prone to be a bit more patient, and perhaps a bit wordy.
  • Tim Stone... very good reply. I appreciate the word-iness.
  • Tim, Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm thinking of purchasing an SP4 but not sure which. I built my own machine for home use but need something that will allow me to get out of the house but still program e.g. cafes and libraries. I mostly work in Visual Studio 15, SQL Server, and Access. Do you think the M3 could handle Visual Studio? I'm drawn to the fanless design. Thanks!
  • I really don't know about the M3.  I know the tests reported so far show performance between the i5 and i7 is pretty equal.  The computer I had with an i7 ( earlier ) really didn't show me much advantage so I've now gone with the i5 on my devices.  I seriously do not have any issues with a fan.  My ears have been ringing loudly for the past 45+ years, so I really don't hear anything noisy from the Book or SP3 I had before.  I have 13 grandkids, so sometimes I get "help needed" calls to watch them, or take them somewhere for an activity.  It's nice to go and have mobile capabilities.  One thing I didn't mention was that I do remote support for clients, so I do need a computer when on the road.  Also, these devices have Miracast so we can always use local monitors.  It's all good !  Sorry I couldn't be helpful on the processor.
  • Tim, That in itself is helpful. I'm leaning toward the i5 and will do some more research. Thanks for the reply.
  • Before I bought my SP 2 I had been using a VAIO laptop and I still find it hard to believe that a product released by the manufacturer of the actual OS has had so many issues with WIFI connectivity. The VAIO wifi used to run without a single problem over the entire lifespan of the product. I don't know why they would not simply get rid of that faulty chip when it is obvious that it keeps causing issues with every iteration of the product (3&4). With a pricepoint that high one simply expects such basic connectivity tools such as WIFI or BLUETOOTH to work. 
  • Not sure how much is a W10 issue. Have NO problems with my main desktop (Asus) or SP2 on W10. Plenty solid for daily production work.
    My SP4 did experience continuous display driver crashing during Edge and\or IE sessions. But today's updates and a change in the Internet Options Advanced Tab for "software" rendering, in lieu of "gpu" had a much improved behaviour. And I admit battery life is not impressive.
    But, I gotta tell ya, it's a sheer joy to use it. I have years with MacBook's and IPads. The standards are high for me. This thing is a sweeet piece of design and engineering. They'll get em ironed out.
  • ..tablet features a slightly 12.3-inch.. slightly what?
  • The tablet is slight, not bulky.
  • I'd say "larger" is meant to be in there.
  • Attack of the GRAMMAR NAZI!! Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • LOL. Do you know what Grammar means? It's not a grammar issue. The article is missing a word that would otherwise describe a feature of the device.
  • I have had nothing but problems from crashes just being in facebook to the stupid audio poping
  • Some of those problems happen almost with every device after make the upgrade to W10, I think there is a issue with the OS that they want to fix with the next big update.
  • I pray that the November update fixes them.
  • As ever with Microsoft, wait for the first service pack before upgrading :)!
  • It's funny, I'll get 6+ hours doing cad or Photoshop, and 3 hours using Edge. There is something seriously wrong with Edge's resource management....... Using SP3...... At least the 4 is better thermally
  • Installed Windows 10 on 15 SP3 over a network using MDT. No issues with any of them.
  • Chill. Problems be problems, and while his may seem one off, they caused inconvenience and worry. This Forum is to share what users have found and his comment is no less important than the laundry must others have posted.
  • Edge is a common issue here. Edge is just not there, very buggy.
  • Honestly, I love my SP4, even with errors. I want them FIXED, but I can cope. My XPS 12 would occasionally stop responding to touch pre 8.1, so I'm used to having the screen stop working. I just hope they kill these major bugs such as battery drain, sleep drain, and Intel graphics crashing. Things like the yellowing in Edge are annoying but livable.
  • I had touch screen issues on my Lenovo Miix 2 8 on Windows 8.1 especially noticeable in the store. As soon as I installed Windows 10 that went away, Edge runs fine too, no battery drain issues on the Intel Atom. Intel make great hardware but jeez there drivers take a good year to get up to standard.
  • The fan kicking in for no reason worries me a bit.   I specifically returned my SP3 at the start of the year because I could not live with the noise. I expected that the SP4 would have addressed that problem. I have a SP4 i7 pre-ordered so I guess for now I just have to wait and see what happens (arrives by the last week of November).
  • Other comments blame Edge for this and the use of IE solves the issue? Just something to consider with regards to the fan.
  • Worst deployment I've ever experienced. I switched from Galaxy Note 12.2 and let me tell ya. Its looking good every day
  • Just avoid using that stupid edge browser then you can avoid 90% of the battery, fan, cpu, ram, and heat problems... Like seriously, edge sucks...
  • I was going to say that too.  Don't use edge and all the issues with the sp4 goes away.  It's not ready or will be ready until they get an ad blocker in there.   IE works great,  no battery drain, fast,  no ads.  Smooth sailing here and I am only on a surface 3.
  • I'd love to see you guys come back in 3 months and follow up this article to see what's been fixed and what hasn't! After that I'll make my mind up...
  • No issues on my SP3, I have had Windows 10 since the insider days
  • The Surface Book hardware is veey good. However, some of the issues here if not majority are software or driver issues, which are pretty much caused by Windows 10. This is actually good as these can be fixed by updates and more updates. The latch problem is a defense mechanism of the device preventing the screen to be removed if there are processes using the GPU which is in the base. The program managing this is the one that has an issue. This is the very first device in this new category so I am expecting the device to be imperfect. Hopefully, fix are on the way.
  • TH2 is around the corner so hopefully some of these issues, if not all, should be alleviated. It does byte to have a brand new device and find some annoying defects in it. It pained me when my SP3 developed a yellow tint area on the screen. Microsoft did replace the tablet though quickly.
  • I issues with my SP3 running with 10. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Slightly "bigger" 12.3"... (Fix the article)
  • Is the protection plan international? I'm traveling a lot. It should be possible to get support ( hardware replacement, repair, etc.) abroad. I would like to have a surface, but this is a real tough criteria. With apple I have world wide warranty even when I purchase the device abroad. Does Microsoft offer this service, what's your experience?
  • But seriously, problems with Edge shouldn't be reported as Surface's problems. Edge is a buggy unstable beta product. While IE on windows 10 runs smooth and stable.
    Inb4 but edge is faster in benchmarks!!!1
    It may be, but it's constant hangs and crashes and lack of tracking protection make it slower than IE in real life.
  • Right! IE only crashes a few times a day for me. 
  • So, I regrettably had to return my Surface Book. It is the best best display and the hardware is just amazing, but after all of the flickering issues and BSODs, my book made my decision for me by failing to power on.  I opened it up, the undock button was lit red and no permutation of long button presses would bring it back. My Store did not have any Books that weren't already allocated to pre-orders so I am on a waiting list. I am hoping that the later batches of hardware along with the patches being installed en mass the next Book will be perfect.  As good as the Pro 3's screen is, it is so far behind the Book's.  Hello, is it me you're looking for?
  • I have stopped using edge and switched to firefox for now because of multiple issues that keep popping up. I also noticed that windows defender on win 10 goes haywire and brings my PC (an overclocked i7 dual gpu) to a crawl when I used certain software like Fotofusion. I actually have to temporarily disable windows defender when working in Fotofusion. It is also really disappointing to see that my surface's wifi  and keyboard still randomly stop working even on the latest win 10 build.
  • What's wrong with IE11? Lol...
  • In my experience this is an issue with Windows 10 more than it is hardware. My desktop with Windows 10 has serious issues with putting itself to sleep and waking up, shutting down, and freezing.   My Surface Pro with Windows 10 randomly reboots, will stop recognizing keyboard, and lock up. Microsoft Edge is a buggy piece of crap that has all kinds of issues with rendoring, javascript performance, and css compatibility.   Microsoft GET YOUR SH!T TOGETHER!
  • Some of this sounds like the nonsense I've been experiencing with my MacBook Pro for a couple of years now. Battery life has always been far below what is advertised. Wi-Fi occassionally interferes with the Bluetooth Magic Mouse. The latest problem I'm experiencing is the Apple ethernet dongle causing hard crashes. My point being that this isn't the end of the world. The test will be if Microsoft fixes this issues, but I think they have a good track record with that stuff. Unlike Apple where I routinely discover that the same issues persist through various generations of OSX and MacBooks.
  • I'm disappointed with my SP4. Crashes every 15 minutes. Gets too hot. Fan is loud. I miss my Surface RT I traded in for it.
  • there's too another big and annoying bug that is not listed here: Surfaces loose screen calibration when you rotate it... take a look
  • Time to kill of Microsoft Edge.
    At least get it sorted, not to inflict such bad experience on all W10 users, and finish its features. Cos users are flocking to Google Chrome right now.
  • Sounds like we need Surface Pro 4.5 in March because even a software update and optimisation won't fix everything. After all this time still so far from perfection, it truly hurts to hear about the battery life again.
  • I have updated to all the latest drivers and I am still seeing many of these problems. It also seems like every day there is a new update to install. I haven't used Windows in years so is that normal or are the updates just not installing on my machine for some reason? I have a SP4, i5/256/8 RAM
  • First let me start by saying I tried to publish my negative review on the Microsoft website itself, but it was rejected: MS says…“Our staff has read your review and values your contribution even though it did not meet all our website guidelines. Thanks for sharing, and we hope to publish next time!
    A quick Google search reviled there are a lot of negative reviews that were rejected by the Microsoft Surface team. No wonder they have a 4.5 star rating on their website.
    None the less, here is my story on my TWO surface Books:
    My "1st" Surface Book was an i7, dGPU, 8GB, which upon arrival, had 4 open tickets by late evening. 1) It boots repeatedly to the BIOS like screen (boot sources, etc.). There was no way to exit as it would just keep rebooting to the same screen. 2) The computer randomly freezes and the only recovery is a hard power off losing all my work. 3) It will randomly leave the screen on and running when the lid is closed killing the battery and heating the computer. 4) Won't power on sometimes; go figure. After hitting the power button and also by holding it down for thirty seconds, would not power up. Then, letting it sit for a few hours, it would start normally. It also ran at 104 degrees or more just surfing the internet at 50% brightness on battery. I returned in on the second day of ownership back to MS. I purchased a second one from Best Buy the same day I returned the previous one to MS. I really wanted it to work for me as it is a great design.
    However, the Best Buy (BB) one was returned the next day also. It would also randomly freeze, 3 times in one day before lunch. A hard reset was the only recovery mode resulting in the loss of my data that was in progress. It also would not run my external 3TB Western Digital "MY Passport" hard drive. It is strange that it will run on my wife's Dell laptop and my Alienware lap top. However, the SB would only copy off the drive, but not back onto it. It would freeze at 1% and never progress. I went to BB to try it on the floor model. It did not work there either, but did work on other laptops on the display floor, and it did work on the BB Geek Squad desktop computer as well. If I cannot access my work on a portable drive (media mostly), this laptop want-to-be, is a complete failure. Sorry MS, trouble shoot on your time, not mine. If you go out and look, there are hundreds of threads on this thing freezing and not working in many numerous ways. Don't be swayed to buy without a lot of research.
  • I've been able to reproduce the "stuck at Surface logo during boot up" bug fairly consistently. I have the type cover (with fingerprint, not sure if thats important), and if i boot up with the keyboard flipped behind the tablet, it'll get stuck at "Surface" during bootup, no little circle of dots or anything. Forced the shutdown, flipped the keyboard to the front, and after power on, it booted fine. I figured maybe it was just a problem that one time. Powered down, flipped it back, booted up, got stuck. Forced shutdown, booted up again, still got stuck. Once I flipped it to the front, booted up just fine. May just be coincidence, but seems like it's doing the trick for me. Edit: SP4 m3 model
  • My experience is very disappointing. First let me say that I have the core i7/8gig 256 gig model pro 4. The amount of bugs are the most I have experienced in a device. First when I use my ptv3000 which works perfect with my galaxy s6, galaxy note 10.1 2014, Asus zenbook tablet and my 4gig old Sony Vaio it crashes over and over especially if I try to extend the screen. It says my windows 8.1 HD drivers failed. 8.1?? Yes edge is smooth and responsive but anything other than that is terrible to use and laggy (feels like a 250 Ms delay) when using the track pad. Using a mouse feels way better on chrome etc. I have a feeling that due to this product being new more than 70% of the drivers aren't made for this device and this causes alot of the random issues. My tablet fans go nuts sometimes opening a small program that barely takes up resources. My multi touch dies all the time. Today my screen just stopped working. A reboot fixes these issues Everytime. The voltage throttling on the i7 is bizarre and it affects you even in light gaming. Folding the keyboard back on boot up also locks my device and as soon as I flip it back it starts up. I also get the popping sounds and sometimes echo sounds in some games. I don't believe any of these issues are hardware based and I feel like a beta tester for a gen 4 device. Not to mention Microsoft really messed up the launch of the i7 device. I got a call saying it's ready for pickup and then another call saying sorry not til November 20th then a call the next day after that it is (it wasn't). Nov 20th came and went and no call so I call and they say no device and offer me a year free of office which I didn't want (asked for a free touch xover) and they said take office or nothing for their inconvenience. Then to get a faulty device left me not feeling good about any process of getting a Microsoft device. All in all this is exactly what I'm looking for and I am going to stick it through and hope the community or Microsoft figures out most of the major issues so that we can all have a more consistent experience with our pro 4s and books! Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • When this device works, it's a fantasic tool with a ton of potential.  I sold my Ipad Air 2 and Yoga 2 Pro and picked this up.  It is fast, the keyboard is excellent, Windows 10 works very well and the Surface Pen is Excellent.  That being said, I am on my 4th unit because of defects.  I will point out that all of my screens have varing degrees of LED bleed, this last one is the best of the bunch.  First unit had dead pixel, screen flickering and Pen stoped working.  Second unit had terrible LED Bleed and wifi stoped working.  Third unit was great until it completely went bezerk, complete fail to the point I could not shut it down.  Forth unit, the fan on this 4th unit is really really loud, so I am testing it for a while and hope the bugs works itself out.  Anytime I plug in a usb drive, do a virus scan, the fan is loud and goes full speed. If this one fails I am going to go back to Lenovo